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It's pissing down outside and yes, we are back to Level 3. To all those moaning and bitching about it and calling the PM childish names, get a grip, we are the luckiest people in the world right

After many hours of consideration, a lot of in-depth research on the SA technical threads, extensive computational modelling and a few quick & dirty minutes in Photoshop, I have produced this anal

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6 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Just because Larry Ellison has more money than he knows what to do with, doesn't mean every billionaire is in the same situation.

But you know what a billionaire is, don't you?

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1 hour ago, Stingray~ said:

It is because MdN is 'their $Billionaire' benefactor and because the hullabaloo of the moment is all about funding TNZ.  ?  There's a shortfall that he could cover, then let sponsors trickle in over time as they always do, to cover some of what he fronts.

You know nothing about that guy… absolutely nothing, you never have anything new to add. Off you fuck to your sailing illustrated show, & don’t forget to let your racist mindset shine

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3 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

that escalated quickly..

smelly sock?

No smelly sock, I know what I know, the sad thing is that fuckwit started posting during the cup in VLC, & the saddest thing is he still doesn’t know what he doesn’t know….

 

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35 minutes ago, Onthelock! said:

No smelly sock, I know what I know, the sad thing is that fuckwit started posting during the cup in VLC, & the saddest thing is he still doesn’t know what he doesn’t know….

 

I love the insanity of this place. Just when you think it's going to start to get boring some other crazy fuck goes off his meds and off his rocker and starts posting insider knowledge from the basement.

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Older article.
https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL2103/S00085/on-why-emirates-team-new-zealand-is-a-really-really-bad-look.htm

From local sailing site Crew.org.Nz.

A very depressing meeting tonight at the squadron, with Grant Dalton leading the way, obviously called quickly in response to a lot of long standing members questioning the need to defend offshore.

Grant presented us with his scenario, pretending to forget Jim Ratcliffes name was the first sign of total spin, (no wonder National looked past him all those years ago when he considered politics). 

Conveniently forgetting the promise last year that if we won the marine industry would get a payback in the next defence hopefully after Covid this time,( I have been in the marine industry since before he was a rep for Lynn laces/ Feltex ropes).

The boil down of all the flannel was -we cant afford to defend the cup here, so we are better taking the money and racing elsewhere and even if we win it wont come back as an event as we cant afford it here, but the soft soap was a pre round here and maybe some youth professional yachting training!

No hard numbers were mentioned despite many questions, understandable if they are still trying for more from our strapped government.

So we are told if you want to see the cup in the Squadron display cabinet -it has to be raced offshore or the government has to come up with an undisclosed fortune to 'persuade' them to stay here.

Essentially this will be like the All Blacks are the top of their game, but we all have to pay and there will be no games in NZ!

Very depressing that the Commodore has agreed to this.

I am booking my place on the Isle of Wight now, and the Diamond Races and Isle of Wight festival all add to the fun.

Please someone -anyone prove me wrong

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2 minutes ago, Onthelock! said:

You know nothing about that guy: FACT

Stated posting during the cup in VLC: Fact

Racist mindset: FACT

 

C840A956-FDFD-4561-8D25-70CF25605F6C.png

Right. If you want to see a racist check out the guy that started this thread. 

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3 minutes ago, pusslicker said:

Right. If you want to see a racist check out the guy that started this thread. 

I just said racist mindset. The screenshot proves me correct. People get fired from their jobs for less then what he wrote……. But at least he spelt black with capital B, to really emphasize it…… 

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4 minutes ago, WetHog said:

So much for ETNZ saving the Cup from what evil Larry Ellison did to it.  If anything Dalts and his crew have embraced Uncle Larry’s vision.  Shocking. 

WetHog  :ph34r:

Kind of unfair to Larry. At least he chose boats that were affordable even for TNZ. I hated those cats, and love the 75's, but it seems pretty fucking short sighted for GD. The hubris of that man. Will be fun to watch his fall.

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39 minutes ago, Onthelock! said:

I just said racist mindset. The screenshot proves me correct. People get fired from their jobs for less then what he wrote……. But at least he spelt black with capital B, to really emphasize it…… 

Like a screenshot can't be faked? Even by someone with your limited abilities.

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1 hour ago, Onthelock! said:

I just said racist mindset. The screenshot proves me correct. People get fired from their jobs for less then what he wrote……. But at least he spelt black with capital B, to really emphasize it…… 

What the hell are you on about? Did my damn speller-thing put Black instead of Billionaire? Am not even going to bother... Geez, lighten up

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9 hours ago, Erwankerauzen said:

Gissie why do you want to spoil the party all the time ?

Apologies if not getting on my knees and gobbling Dalts offends your sensibilities. In my opinion, yours may differ, TNZ has behaved in a manner that I find repugnant as a Kiwi they claim to represent.

Easy really, they should just take the offshore deal and drop the NZ part from the name.

Or maybe sell bits of paper so all the thousands of supporters can fund the event for them. Yeah right, typical rich folk, get the taxpayer to fund their pastimes.

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1 hour ago, WetHog said:

So much for ETNZ saving the Cup from what evil Larry Ellison did to it.  If anything Dalts and his crew have embraced Uncle Larry’s vision.  Shocking. 

WetHog  :ph34r:

They have taken Larry's vision and turbo charged it. Not really a surprise, making it a commercial venture for all was the only long term survival strategy for TNZ. A lack of sponser money was always going to rear its ugly head one day, so the race was always commercial success or the team going down the gurgle.

Looks like the water is starting to swirl and Dalton is desperate to not be the one in charge when it happens. Wouldn't surprise me if he bailed before the end.

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2 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

So NZ should not allow the NZ All Blacks to play overseas?

Certainly shouldn't have played Ireland on Soldier Field in Chicago!

How does it work in World Cup Rugby? If you win the season, do you defend at home?

South Africa hosted a big Rugby event some years ago (and even won it) but I think the venue was a few years in the making, like Olympic venues? 

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6 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

How does it work in World Cup Rugby? If you win the season, do you defend at home?

Nope.  World Cup Rugby is like the Olympics - Cities/Countries bid for it.  Bidding for the 2027 tournament is now open.

The 2023 Tournament is being held in France.

France have never won the World Rugby Cup.

 

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1 minute ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Nope.  World Cup Rugby is like the Olympics - Cities/Countries bid for it.  Bidding for the 2027 tournament is now open.

 

Just for conversation sake, would that be a horrible idea for future AC’s?

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1 minute ago, 33jesus said:

Just for conversation sake, would that be a horrible idea for future AC’s?

Probably not a bad idea.  However no doubt the Trust Deed and all its nuances would raise its ugly head.

That said that hasn't been the tradition of the AC.  What few people seem to understand in this debate is that the hosting City/Country has always had to put their hands in their pockets.

When you consider what the NZ Government is wasting taxpayers money on it seems a really dumb idea not to dig out another $50m.  If it wasn't for the AC then the Viaduct in downtown Auckland wouldn't exist.

Yet the Government is spending about $2b on a Central Rail Loop that hardly anyone will use (costing $2m a metre!), $650m on a bike bridge that hardly anyone will use, $300m to paint marae's all round the country, $75m gift to the Racing Industry....and so on and so on.

The Government has no idea what the AC does for youth sailing enthusiasm around the country and I can't think of a better thing for young people to do than get out on the water and sail.

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20 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Nope.  World Cup Rugby is like the Olympics - Cities/Countries bid for it.  Bidding for the 2027 tournament is now open.

The 2023 Tournament is being held in France.

France have never won the World Rugby Cup.

 

We had a bid in for that one, England supported us, but we never got to the final round of bids as Wales & Scotland refused to support us... Fuckers

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10 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Probably not a bad idea.  However no doubt the Trust Deed and all its nuances would raise its ugly head.

And there lies the problem. That pesky rules of the event. Let's just chuck the deed aside and make up a new set of rules. Stupid deed that has allowed the event to continue for this long, let's change the cup into a JAR.

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34 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

So NZ should not allow the NZ All Blacks to play overseas?

Certainly shouldn't have played Ireland on Soldier Field in Chicago!

You really are a sraw grabber. Rugby is rather different, but to play your game. The AB's should be able to play overseas, even against Ireland in the US. At the same time taking a bledisloe game out of Aus or NZ was wrong.

But you are just one of those that will support the team no matter what they do. If Larry or Bert did it, you would have been sharpening the pitchfork, but TNZ does it and there is always an excuse. Some ridiculous situation you can dredge up to justify your one eyed support.

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6 minutes ago, Gissie said:

And there lies the problem. That pesky rules of the event. Let's just chuck the deed aside and make up a new set of rules. Stupid deed that has allowed the event to continue for this long, let's change the cup into a JAR.

With agreement from the Clubs they are representing, syndicates are already able 'shop the event' via mutual consent. Very rare (Bermuda and Valencia) but not unprecedented.

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1 hour ago, Stingray~ said:

Cork sets its course to host the 2024 America's Cup yacht race (irishexaminer.com)

From there..

Cowes, Jedda in Saudi Arabia, Dubai, Singapore, and Valencia in Spain, which hosted the 2007 America’s Cup, are also understood to be considering bids in the event New Zealand opts to defend its title abroad.

Slightly curious, bold mine. They (who, Origin or what?) were there before the 'deadline' has passed..

 

A technical team from the event's organising authority visited Cork city and harbour over the weekend for a range of technical briefings and site assessments, including an aerial assessment conducted during a flight over the harbour.

...

They attended a number of events, including an outdoor briefing on a veranda or balcony at the Sirius Arts centre in Cobh on Friday night, also attended by Minister for Foreign Affairs, Simon Coveney; a lunch event at Camden Fort Meagher on Saturday; and the delegation also visited Cork city over the weekend to experience the buzz of the city centre.

A spokesperson for Mr Coveney confirmed he was part of a series of briefings but she declined to comment in any further detail.

“A small international team assessed sites in Cork last weekend for potential future events,” she said.

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1 minute ago, Gissie said:

At the same time taking a bledisloe game out of Aus or NZ was wrong.

Why was it wrong?  The NZRU was in deep shyte financially.  They made significant money from "the Brand" playing at an alternative venue.  I know many NZ supporters that went to it.

Actually the All Blacks is a good comparison with ETNZ because the NZRU really struggles to retain talent because it is constantly being outbid by the European Clubs and Japan.  

4 minutes ago, Gissie said:

But you are just one of those that will support the team no matter what they do. If Larry or Bert did it, you would have been sharpening the pitchfork, but TNZ does it and there is always an excuse. Some ridiculous situation you can dredge up to justify your one eyed support.

Ummm who is being the red neck blinkered type here?  I'm being practical and realistic.  I had no problem with Coutts, Butterworth and co taking the dosh.  Good on them.  Being a Rugby follower I've got used to our professional players at National and Provincial levels taking the big dosh towards the end of their careers.  

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1 minute ago, Stingray~ said:

Slightly curious, bold mine. They (who, Origin or what?) were there before the 'deadline' has passed..

There will be a Plan B and it will provide leverage in any negotiation.

I wonder if Adern has done the political polls to see if there are more votes in a cycle bridge or the AC?

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5 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Slightly curious, bold mine. They (who, Origin or what?) were there before the 'deadline' has passed..

 

A technical team from the event's organising authority visited Cork city and harbour over the weekend for a range of technical briefings and site assessments, including an aerial assessment conducted during a flight over the harbour.

...

They attended a number of events, including an outdoor briefing on a veranda or balcony at the Sirius Arts centre in Cobh on Friday night, also attended by Minister for Foreign Affairs, Simon Coveney; a lunch event at Camden Fort Meagher on Saturday; and the delegation also visited Cork city over the weekend to experience the buzz of the city centre.

A spokesperson for Mr Coveney confirmed he was part of a series of briefings but she declined to comment in any further detail.

“A small international team assessed sites in Cork last weekend for potential future events,” she said.

Sure why not, it's home to the oldest yacht club in the world 

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Press Release from ETNZ.

Auckland, New Zealand - 16th June 2021

Emirates Team New Zealand (ETNZ) representing the Royal New Zealand Yacht Squadron (RNZYS) and the Government, along with Auckland Council, have concluded exclusive discussions regarding funding for the next America’s Cup (AC37) following ETNZ’s successful defence in Auckland of the 36th America’s Cup in March this year.

During the three-month exclusive negotiating period between New Zealand agencies and ETNZ, they have not been able to reach a conclusion that works for all parties. All three parties have worked through these discussions with the best of intentions to see the AC37 hosted in Auckland, and they have not been able to reach agreement by the expiration of the exclusive period.

Emirates Team New Zealand will now commence discussions with other nations to look into options regarding hosting AC37 events.

“By all means, the end of the exclusive negotiation period does not eliminate all possibility of the event or an event being hosted in New Zealand. If resources enable an event in New Zealand we will remain open to it. But, we must explore other opportunities to ensure we can put up another successful defence. No matter where in the world we are, we will always be Team New Zealand. Our priority has always been to keep and defend the America’s Cup successfully. We certainly want to explore holding a regatta in Auckland and along with discussing the venue for AC37 with other nations, would like to work through that opportunity also”, said Grant Dalton.

RNZYS Commodore Aaron Young said Whilst we also remain hopeful that the cup can stay in New Zealand it would be prudent to now explore other options as well, with the primary objective to ensure we keep the America’s Cup trophy in the cabinet here at the club. As such we also understand the need to help ensure the viability of Emirates Team New Zealand so we have every opportunity to defend the America’s Cup again, wherever that may be. It would be an unprecedented achievement to win the America’s Cup 3 times in a row and taking the cup overseas may well offer the best chance for us to do so.  At a meeting last night members were presented with this option and I believe generally understood this might need to happen.”

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11 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

Is that a big deal?

Not really, he's their partnership guy.  Background in event management so fairly common to jump around.  Given his history with FIFA wouldn't be surprised to see him take up a role for the women's tournament.

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15 hours ago, Horn Rock said:

Makes you wonder if the sponsorship landscape is any better overseas?

I guess we'll have to wait and see. At least GD can now start turning over a couple of rocks.

 

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1 hour ago, Sailbydate said:

At least GD can now start turning over a couple of rocks.

It's made harder with the travel situation and having to quarantine to get back into NZ. Both Oz and NZ need to kick their vaccine programs into gear. The roll outs have been too slow in both countries.

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1 hour ago, Sailbydate said:

I guess we'll have to wait and see. At least GD can now start turning over a couple of rocks.

 

My bet is that ETNZ has already offers of Foreign Venues being submitted to them. They now need 3 months until Sept 17 to sort out which is best. It's pretty similar how Olympic Venues get selected and it's similar how Alinghi and the Societe Nautique de Geneve selected Valencia as Host City for AC32.

Big Difference though is because of COVID19 there won't be 30 Cities vying for it like back in 2003.

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Okay if that's how they want to do things all good RIP Team New Zealand, Kiwi Magic, Black Magic, Aotearoa. 1986-2021

You have lost the right to the New Zealand name.

 

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So it's going to the UK.! Next the ETNZ sailors will be bought because they aren't getting paid enough.! So the "SMALL" in NZ is finally hurting them? The NZ Government realize this is a cost spending exercise and not a money making opportunity so good on them for staying within the realms of reality. Kiwi people may hate this but welcome to reality.! The sharks like Jim Ratcliffe and Larry Ellison will be circling ready for a cheap meal.! :D

 

 

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28 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

Compare the low Vaccinations @Horn Rockmentioned for New Zealand and Australia to the UK. UK might reach 100 % Vaccinations by years end!

The issue is the herd immunity which is a combination of % of the population that got infected and vaccinations.

As some studies show that for each infection there may be 10 asymptomatic a lot of coutries have nearly finished with the pandemic, excepted for those who closed their borders.

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4 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

a lot of coutries have nearly finished with the pandemic, excepted for those who closed their borders.

Pandemic is far from over. You have to have virtually the whole world, or a big chunk of it vaccinated. New variants will emerge from those places which aren't vaccinated, and the current vaccines might not work against the new strains. Closed borders saved a lot of lives.

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31 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

Pandemic is far from over. You have to have virtually the whole world, or a big chunk of it vaccinated. New variants will emerge from those places which aren't vaccinated, and the current vaccines might not work against the new strains. Closed borders saved a lot of lives.

I don't agree, even if not finished, the pandemic is declining at the world level, and close to finished in lots of countries..

Continents like africa did not need vaccines to live a normal life while we don't know yet if vaccines only will be sufficient to protect countries that closed their borders.

We can't know if closed borders saved lifes until the "war" is finished, it did save a few months of life to old people in short terms, but we have to wait to know if it did it on a long term.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

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1 hour ago, terrafirma said:

Next the ETNZ sailors will be bought because they aren't getting paid enough.!

I was about to say the same thing but remembered they intend to tighten the nationality clause even further for AC37. The design team will be targeted for sure though.

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22 minutes ago, Sea Breeze 74 said:

I was about to say the same thing but remembered they intend to tighten the nationality clause even further for AC37. The design team will be targeted for sure though.

100% the other teams chasing the intellectual property that ETNZ possess.! 

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7 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

It's official - the ETNZ Board have declined the Government's offer.

From my read of the situation the biggest stumbling block has been the Auckland Mayor. 

Surely the biggest stumbling block was GD not being given the keys to the treasury and being told to help Himself ? 

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1 hour ago, Sea Breeze 74 said:

I was about to say the same thing but remembered they intend to tighten the nationality clause even further for AC37. The design team will be targeted for sure though.

And the reason a nationality clause for the design team doesn’t work in NZ favour is…? 

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The comparison to the ABs playing overseas just doesn’t  work 

they were not putting the WC up for grabs when they played or toured to different countries, every international sporting team tours and plays but not for the WC. 
 

fucking off with the AC to defend it in the middle east sloshing with oil money (remember the environment  Pete) 

or where ever else they might choose, and it is 100% their choice. Is not remotely the same. 

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4 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

they were not putting the WC up for grabs when they played or toured to different countries, every international sporting team tours and plays but not for the WC. 

They did it with the Bledisloe Cup.

That said isn't the AC the WC or the pinnacle of match racing and boat design?

4 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

fucking off with the AC to defend it in the middle east sloshing with oil money (remember the environment  Pete) 

or where ever else they might choose, and it is 100% their choice. Is not remotely the same. 

Just as it was Larry's choice to take it to Bermuda.

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3 hours ago, NZL4EVER said:

Okay if that's how they want to do things all good RIP Team New Zealand, Kiwi Magic, Black Magic, Aotearoa. 1986-2021

You have lost the right to the New Zealand name.

 

Hardly. I still want them to support, follow and celebrate their successes.

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Im sure GD has done his sums, but $100m of free public money is a shitload to turn down. I havent seen a coherent explanation if this is for a) team or b) event. Either way I think any other venue would be dumb to risk more than this. We're one mutation away from another lockdown. Surely the cost of a prolonged offshore campaign will be huge.

Taking it away will lose most of NZ's public support among the non-sailing public, carefully garnered over decades.

NZ has many athletes that compete around the world in all sorts of sports, and we only maintain a passing interest via the nightly news in offshore people.

What is the point of a nationality clause, if AC37 is just a mercenary international professional sporting event, with no loyalty to the home nation(s).

I for sure wont be flying to Cork, or Southampton to watch. Or wasting a hundred bucks on a new team polo.

I am surprised at the subdued reaction here, some were fucking fizzing at the mere mention of going offshore, and now its happened everyone is :mellow:

 

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58 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

They did it with the Bledisloe Cup.

That said isn't the AC the WC or the pinnacle of match racing and boat design?

Just as it was Larry's choice to take it to Bermuda.

Honestly no one outside of the Southern Hemisphere gives a fuck about the bledisloe.

just Like I wouldn’t expect a Kiwi Australian or South African to particularly care where six nations matches are played. 
 

And look how popular Larry was .. 

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Something that puzzles me. If GD wants to whore-out AC37 to Cowes in order to plug the leak in TNZ's finances, why would Radcliffe want to help him to do it?

Maybe that's why alternatives like Cork are coming into play. It's a fantastic sailing venue. Would seem however pretty light on infrastructure to support a full-blown AC circus. Anyone who rented a house for Cork Week in its heyday knows there isn't much accommodation to be had nearby. Crosshaven is very nice but it's a nice village.

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1 hour ago, minimumfuss said:

Im sure GD has done his sums, but $100m of free public money is a shitload to turn down. I havent seen a coherent explanation if this is for a) team or b) event. Either way I think any other venue would be dumb to risk more than this. We're one mutation away from another lockdown. Surely the cost of a prolonged offshore campaign will be huge.

Taking it away will lose most of NZ's public support among the non-sailing public, carefully garnered over decades.

NZ has many athletes that compete around the world in all sorts of sports, and we only maintain a passing interest via the nightly news in offshore people.

What is the point of a nationality clause, if AC37 is just a mercenary international professional sporting event, with no loyalty to the home nation(s).

I for sure wont be flying to Cork, or Southampton to watch. Or wasting a hundred bucks on a new team polo.

I am surprised at the subdued reaction here, some were fucking fizzing at the mere mention of going offshore, and now its happened everyone is :mellow:

 

Neither would I,but I will probably make one of my dreams come true and catch up on my NZ trip that fell victim to the virus this year. 

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52 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

Honestly no one outside of the Southern Hemisphere gives a fuck about the bledisloe.

just Like I wouldn’t expect a Kiwi Australian or South African to particularly care where six nations matches are played. 
 

And look how popular Larry was .. 

Who said winning was all about popularity.  

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1 hour ago, minimumfuss said:

$100m of free public money is a shitload to turn down.

It's only around $30 million in cash.....and it might be less.....Over 3 years that's only $10 million per year, which would be lucky to be 30% of the wage bill. Still have to build the boat, foils, sail wardrope, fuel the ribs, plus a myriad other costs. 

What would be the point of having a vastly underfunded defence? Lose the cup but keep the locals happy? I'd rather they win it, and hopefully have a defence at home at some point in the future, when things normalize.

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52 minutes ago, dogwatch said:

why would Radcliffe want to help him to do it?

Having the event in your home waters would have benefits and advantages for Ineos would it not? I can think of a few. Would anyone know the Solent better than Ben?

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Going to be very interesting to see who rocks up with a sufficient cash offer to satisfy Dalton and his Dandies.

What a smack in the chops for all those Kiwis that brought into and laid down a significant swag of public coin to buy into the pennies from heaven roads paved with gold trickle down TNZ AC mantra.

Good riddance to them and their shameful associations with the baby hospital bombing Emirates.

The traitors of 2003 now require larger premises to accommodate this recent lot of turncoats.

Team NZ yeah right.

Anyone heard from Fanboy Four recently.

 

 

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1 hour ago, minimumfuss said:

Im sure GD has done his sums, but $100m of free public money is a shitload to turn down. I havent seen a coherent explanation if this is for a) team or b) event. Either way I think any other venue would be dumb to risk more than this. We're one mutation away from another lockdown. Surely the cost of a prolonged offshore campaign will be huge.

Taking it away will lose most of NZ's public support among the non-sailing public, carefully garnered over decades.

NZ has many athletes that compete around the world in all sorts of sports, and we only maintain a passing interest via the nightly news in offshore people.

What is the point of a nationality clause, if AC37 is just a mercenary international professional sporting event, with no loyalty to the home nation(s).

I for sure wont be flying to Cork, or Southampton to watch. Or wasting a hundred bucks on a new team polo.

I am surprised at the subdued reaction here, some were fucking fizzing at the mere mention of going offshore, and now its happened everyone is :mellow:

 

I don't think they'll lose the support. As much as All Blacks fans bitched and moaned about the Silverlake deal and said "I'm not going to support the AB's anymore" they will. They always do. The casual/ fair weather sailing/ AC fans may drop away a little, but its not that audience that is the target audience. Team NZ has a large fanbase here in NZ, and they'll come back as they do every time. 

People moaned about Team NZ getting public money in 2013, but AC34 had one of the highest TV viewerships in years in 2013.

They lost 9-8 and still got a taxpayer funded welcome home.

Again, the fans bitched and moaned about the team receiving taxpayer money going into the 35th cycle, and again, Kiwi's were up in droves at 5am in the morning watching the racing, whether at home, in pubs and/ or bars (yes, they were open at that time of the morning just to screen the Cup matches)

They bitched again going into the recent cycle, and well, look at the fan support shown during the Cup match.

They're bitching again now, and the same will happen, they'll be back when the racing starts. If there's one thing you can count on, its Kiwi sports fans supporting our National teams.

 

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43 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

Having the event in your home waters would have benefits and advantages for Ineos would it not? I can think of a few. Would anyone know the Solent better than Ben?

JR has openly said he wont "buy" the AC and he's not funding a Solent event. He might open a few doors but then Im not sure why he should. The end game is to win the cup and if the defender is struggling to raise funds then its not really his concern and there are still two strong challengers to overcome before even getting to the defender. I'm, not taking into account the AC Solent playoff rumour.

I wouldn't be surprised if Ineos are full on designing and testing plus getting Merc more fully integrated. Foil design, simulation and rig control  are areas where every day counts in design terms. I also wouldn't be surprised if LR were doing the same thing. They haven't entered yet so they can actually build and test stuff with both boats in Cagliari and meanwhile TNZ have barely half a dozen folk on the payroll, heavily distracted and no funding coming in. Having said all this I dont think its in anyone's interest to have a weak defender.

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 My thoughts are, Dalton already has a backer, he just had to wait till the good faith period ends. Tindall has already said the team wanted to do it without government funding, and now they can. Look for  Team NZ to be even stronger than they were last time. 

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23 minutes ago, chesirecat said:

JR has openly said he wont "buy" the AC and he's not funding a Solent event.

I wasn't really referring to that. There are other ways he can help without "buying" the cup. Such as funding and running the Challenger selection series, much like Prada did in the last cup.

 

29 minutes ago, chesirecat said:

I wouldn't be surprised if Ineos are full on designing and testing plus getting Merc more fully integrated. Foil design, simulation and rig control  are areas where every day counts in design terms.

Beefing up their simulator you'd think would be a priority, especially as it emerged how much ETNZ used it as a design tool. Their rig control wasn't the best either last time, and their foil packages had issues...so yes plenty to work on for Ineos.

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1 hour ago, Horn Rock said:

Having the event in your home waters would have benefits and advantages for Ineos would it not? I can think of a few. Would anyone know the Solent better than Ben?

The value of local knowledge can be exaggerated. Solent tides and meteorology are well documented and experts can be hired. Nor is BA particularly a Solent expert, he's a dinghy sailor by background and major dinghy events are not held within the Solent. It is too tidal and busy. Major dinghy regatta locations on the UK south coast include Weymouth, Hayling Bay, Mounts Bay but not the Solent.

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2 hours ago, Horn Rock said:

It's only around $30 million in cash.....and it might be less.....Over 3 years that's only $10 million per year, which would be lucky to be 30% of the wage bill. Still have to build the boat, foils, sail wardrope, fuel the ribs, plus a myriad other costs. 

What would be the point of having a vastly underfunded defence? Lose the cup but keep the locals happy? I'd rather they win it, and hopefully have a defence at home at some point in the future, when things normalize.

I'm afraid, once ETNZ crosses the Rubicon by defending overseas, this will become the new normal. 

Why would they want to return home? There will always be a more financially potent venue somewhere to fill ETNZ's CEO and shareholders' pockets. Auckland is gone for good. 

(Of course only if they leave at all.)

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Still musing ... If it’s to be believed that Ratcliffe is not TNZ’s Tooth Fairy, the only place I can think of that could provide a significant purse is Doha (or, less likely, Dubai). But the Persian Gulf notoriously sees just light breezes. More importantly, the cost of hosting a F1 GP is about 25M$ (real $, not NZ), and the impact is way bigger than an AC costing at least four times that.

Unless INEOS and Prada decided to chip in - but logically their interest is to starve the Kiwi beast

 

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4 hours ago, dogwatch said:

Something that puzzles me. If GD wants to whore-out AC37 to Cowes in order to plug the leak in TNZ's finances, why would Radcliffe want to help him to do it?

Maybe that's why alternatives like Cork are coming into play. It's a fantastic sailing venue. Would seem however pretty light on infrastructure to support a full-blown AC circus. Anyone who rented a house for Cork Week in its heyday knows there isn't much accommodation to be had nearby. Crosshaven is very nice but it's a nice village.

I was thinking the same re: Cork.

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I just want a last minute deal with Air NZ, definitely so that the cup can stay in Auckland (to give me an excuse to come visit) and totally not at all so that there slogan can become Fly Kiwi.

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It strikes me as odd and potentially disingenuous that TNZ does not seem to have considered significant structural changes to the event that would make a defense on the kind of budget they can raise in New Zealand feasible.

 

That's where it really becomes clear that the preservation of TNZ in it's current form is the real imperative driving Grant's decision-making, NOT the need to get offshore money in order to mount a reasonable defense.

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It is all very well saying "well make it cheaper" or "change for the format to the budget you have" but that overlooks that Team New Zealand's budget is a fraction of other teams budgets. Making TNZ's budget smaller just makes that gap bigger, and any competition format is going to be problematic if the other teams can outspend you 2 or even 3 times. Locking down a one design competition strictly enough such that there is no way money can make a difference in the build is also expensive, and then you need sail limits (at least that ones free), crew salary caps (hard to enforce) and even then people will still spend on outside analysts, coaches, etc. People with money will always find a way to use it as an advantage.

What TNZ does have now is a development advantage, they have the winning boat from a concept they had significant input to, from a budget smaller than other teams, but big enough to reduce that advantage in my opinion.

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:lol: 

on what basis is it actually provably a smaller budget? 

they have played the poor relation card so many times yet keep winning so why if you were National/Local Gov or outside sponsors now believe the words for GD et al, saying that they require a huge amount more than they have had in the past when as has been pointed out the infrastructure and heavy lifting has already been done to give them a state of the art location and base that numerous team can operate from.

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29 minutes ago, JonRowe said:

 Locking down a one design competition strictly enough such that there is no way money can make a difference in the build is also expensive,

Don't see that it is expensive. Of course the (limited so far) evidence from SailGp is that NZ would lose in the same boats

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45 minutes ago, JonRowe said:

It is all very well saying "well make it cheaper" or "change for the format to the budget you have" but that overlooks that Team New Zealand's budget is a fraction of other teams budgets.

How does anyone actually know that?

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21 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

Don't see that it is expensive. Of course the (limited so far) evidence from SailGp is that NZ would lose in the same boats

Interesting point. Wonder what % attributed to Superhuman Kiwi Sailors should actually be reallocate to the share for Superhuman Design Team Hired by Kiwis?

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1 hour ago, enigmatically2 said:

Don't see that it is expensive. Of course the (limited so far) evidence from SailGp is that NZ would lose in the same boats

Agree that it the evidence so far is hard to conclude one way or the other. TNZ havent dedicated themselves to the GP50 in terms of training and practice that would go into an AC campaign.  Olympics is probably a better comparison but there the score is level. Outteridge beat Burling/Tuke for Gold in one cycle and Burling/Tuke beat Outteridge for one cycle. So they each have one gold and one silver.

I think the reality is that the very best kiwi sailors are among the very best in the world......but bring everyone in that rarefied category of best sailors on a large high performance foiling one design and its going to be down to one or two right calls.    

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