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9 minutes ago, Varan said:

So... if the RNZYS decide not to defend the Cup, which yacht club do they give the cup back too?

Does this open the door for sailGP's return?

They give it back to Mercury Bay YC and they Defend using Pete and Blair’s F50, quote obviously. 
 

Geez, try to keep up! 

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It's pissing down outside and yes, we are back to Level 3. To all those moaning and bitching about it and calling the PM childish names, get a grip, we are the luckiest people in the world right

After many hours of consideration, a lot of in-depth research on the SA technical threads, extensive computational modelling and a few quick & dirty minutes in Photoshop, I have produced this anal

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1 hour ago, Varan said:

So... if the RNZYS decide not to defend the Cup, which yacht club do they give the cup back too?

Does this open the door for sailGP's return?

They don’t give it back to anyone. They give it to the RYS who was the first challenge, to be accepted under the DoG. A forfeit would mean the current challenge is decided. RYS becomes the new trustee by default. I suspect Ainslie would be far from satisfied with that outcome.

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6 hours ago, rh3000 said:

It was your assertion, maybe you should check with him ;)

ABs lose had zero todo with ref - France were awesome.

If you hear Kiwis feeling sorry for Wallabies reffing impact you know there must be something there.

Saffa's are feeling hard done by too...

 

Yeah i want really referring to the AB-FRA rugby lesson, more the other close games that has Twitter servers humming.

Was more just another opportunity to highlight how his unbelievable AB might not actually be the best in the world. Posting pictures of sportsmen with trophies is too tacky.

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1 hour ago, Kiwing said:

Does Emirates sponsor the ABs as well? and if not what does the ABs have to do with this?
Unless they are providing the grunt power?

Ironically, the AB’s are probably more relevant in this thread seeing as Emirates isn’t actually spending any money to sponsor ETSA. 

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4 hours ago, Kiwing said:

Does Emirates sponsor the ABs as well? and if not what does the ABs have to do with this?
Unless they are providing the grunt power?

Ineos are actually a new sponsor of the All Blacks!

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5 hours ago, enigmatically2 said:

Was it not said that B&T had been retained until the end of November? With no news does that mean they are out? Is 4 busy erasing them from all his ETNZ posters and pictures like some old-school soviet revisionist?

December. End of December.

I don't begrudge the boys having Christmas and New Years off.

They'll come back to the team in the new year. As Dalton has already stated, they're already back at work at the base with the team, so they'll be back.

Its summer here in NZ, we're into the Traffic light framework today and in 2 weeks, Aucklanders will be able to leave Auckland for where ever they want to spend Christmas. Its been a long rough year in NZ, so no doubt they, like every other Aucklander need a break over the summer period before making any decisions. No one begrudges them that. 

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On 12/3/2021 at 3:09 AM, Forourselves said:

December. End of December.

I don't begrudge the boys having Christmas and New Years off.

They'll come back to the team in the new year. As Dalton has already stated, they're already back at work at the base with the team, so they'll be back.

Its summer here in NZ, we're into the Traffic light framework today and in 2 weeks, Aucklanders will be able to leave Auckland for where ever they want to spend Christmas. Its been a long rough year in NZ, so no doubt they, like every other Aucklander need a break over the summer period before making any decisions. No one begrudges them that. 

I'm expecting the rug to be pulled the will lose the base in the coming weeks Auckland council lent it on conditions of defence in NZ.

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10 minutes ago, JonRowe said:

Perhaps the most tragic aspect of this tawdry saga is the detrimental effect and action that is being pressured on the RNZYS and its members by Dunphy, Farmer and Ross which jeopardises the very foundations of the 150 year old club with the aim of disenfranchising ETNZ and the 30 year relationship that has seen 4 America’s Cup victories together

It is for these reasons that ETNZ can never have any relationship with Mr Dunphy or his associates even if he were to magically find the funds to meet the full and actual costs of hosting the event and defending AC37.

Sentences they liked so much, they used them twice.

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16 minutes ago, dogwatch said:

Perhaps the most tragic aspect of this tawdry saga is the detrimental effect and action that is being pressured on the RNZYS and its members by Dunphy, Farmer and Ross which jeopardises the very foundations of the 150 year old club with the aim of disenfranchising ETNZ and the 30 year relationship that has seen 4 America’s Cup victories together

It is for these reasons that ETNZ can never have any relationship with Mr Dunphy or his associates even if he were to magically find the funds to meet the full and actual costs of hosting the event and defending AC37.

Sentences they liked so much, they used them twice.

they liked this word so much they used it differently but twice in succession

 

Mr Dunphy was repeatedly urged to urgently meet with Grant Dalton

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6 hours ago, JonRowe said:

Yeah, they have once and for all closed the possibility of a Cup Defence in Auckland BUT to be perfectly honest with you I am not going to blame them.

Let's be fair here: Would you trust a guy (Dunphy) who was activly undermining AC37 Protocol Negotiations by trying to get the RYS replaced by the NYYC as CoR. I wouldn't!

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8 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

They say in the AC, you can't buy time.

In terms of accelerated design development, I suspect that's exactly what TNZ has done with this technology.

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This little nugget seems to have been overlooked with all the news:

Glenn Ashby, Nathan Outteridge, Ray Davies, Josh Junior and Andy Maloney is a formidable core sailing team in itself. Add Pete and Blair to that mix, and thats one extremely talented sailing team.

If Pete and Blair don't return, the team is still extremely formidable.

 

In addition to our amazing design, build and production teams, we have an incredibly strong sailing team with the Glenn, Andy, Josh, Ray all returning, as well as the new signing of Nathan Outteridge which has been very popular and provides a considerable addition of experience

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14 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

kiwi boat driven by two ozzys,   Geln and Nathan... sad times;)

 

how much is it going to cost to get P+B back in/overcome any moral/logistical objections

 

Don't forget, Head of Design is a Pom too. So, what's your point again?

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My gut feel is that Peter Burling & Blair Tuke won't return to ETNZ for the Teams AC37 Defence. There is one thing missing from their illustrous Sailing Career and that' the "Ocean Race". They both may get a chance to do something no one has done thus far: Get the Triple Crown (America's Cup/Olympic Gold Medal/THE OCEAN RACE).

SailGP, TOR, AC37 and a Final Olympic Campaign might be too much for them.

We'll see! 

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30 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

kiwi boat driven by two ozzys,   Geln and Nathan... sad times;)

 

how much is it going to cost to get P+B back in/overcome any moral/logistical objections

 

race in New Zealand?

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3 hours ago, JALhazmat said:

kiwi boat driven by two ozzys,   Geln and Nathan... sad times;)

 

how much is it going to cost to get P+B back in/overcome any moral/logistical objections

 

We’ll we’ve had 2 Swiss boats crewed by Kiwis, a trimaran crewed by international mercenaries, two American boats crewed by Aussies and 1 Kiwi boat primarily crewed by Kiwis save for one Aussie. Two crew isn’t all that bad now is it.

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4 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

We’ll we’ve had 2 Swiss boats crewed by Kiwis, a trimaran crewed by international mercenaries, two American boats crewed by Aussies and 1 Kiwi boat primarily crewed by Kiwis save for one Aussie. Two crew isn’t all that bad now is it.

brings to mind a quote from here with regard to a etnz v oracle race in 2007 " the kiwi c team has beaten the kiwi b team much to the delight of the kiwi a team"

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3 hours ago, Forourselves said:

South Island probably doesn't even know SailGP is.

I'm stoked for Christchurch I watched the last ever America's Cup race in New Zealand waters at The Little Fiddle before departing to Queensland to live.

Can't believe I'm saying that so sad....

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@JonRowe

ETNZ/RNZYS is DONE with KHD - Period! It's over for Farmer, Dunphy and Ross.

America's Cup: Auckland defence dead in the water after feisty Squadron meeting?

https://www.sail-world.com/news/244659/Americas-Cup-Auckland-defence-dead-in-the-water

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14 minutes ago, JonRowe said:

my takeway from this.

They cooked the golden goose that was the AC36 COR, a $150m present without saying thank you.

 

also, the "$160m event budget" didn't go very far

10 racing days of Prada cup

6 racing days of AC final

 

comes out nicely to $10m per day of racing. I know it's a simplistic way to work it out, but i'm sure the regatta can be run a little bit frugally

 

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17 minutes ago, shebeen said:

They cooked the golden goose that was the AC36 COR, a $150m present without saying thank you.

That money was spent by the LRPP on the event, it was never given to ETNZ directly, COR ran the entire challenger cup without ACE.

 

18 minutes ago, shebeen said:

comes out nicely to $10m per day of racing. I know it's a simplistic way to work it out, but i'm sure the regatta can be run a little bit frugally

ETNZ agree with you there, which is why there budget for the whole cup is only 80 million

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49 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

 

ETNZ/RNZYS is DONE with KHD - Period! It's over for Farmer, Dunphy and Ross.

 

So you have said. Many times over the last few weeks. I don't think he reads your posts though.

So how about quitting the parrot impersonation

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10 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

the sideshow with Toyota and hydrogen is interesting. it may or may not be common knowledge. but Toyota bet big on - anything but electric - oddly enough. And they are not as well positioned in the current Tesla climate as one might guess. this is all to say: the hydrogen powered boats + Toyota should = a fairly sizable chunk of sponsorship money.

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1 hour ago, floater said:

the sideshow with Toyota and hydrogen is interesting. it may or may not be common knowledge. but Toyota bet big on - anything but electric - oddly enough. And they are not as well positioned in the current Tesla climate as one might guess. this is all to say: the hydrogen powered boats + Toyota should = a fairly sizable chunk of sponsorship money.

Hopefully hydrogen will be useful as a power source in some applications, in time. But the requirement that Challs go down this path is clearly being forced on them by GD’s sponsorship terms with Toyota, which is a touch unfortunate - maybe even ‘unfair.’

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1 hour ago, floater said:

the sideshow with Toyota and hydrogen is interesting. it may or may not be common knowledge. but Toyota bet big on - anything but electric - oddly enough. And they are not as well positioned in the current Tesla climate as one might guess. this is all to say: the hydrogen powered boats + Toyota should = a fairly sizable chunk of sponsorship money.

But they ARE electric. They generate electricity from the hydrogen fuel cell. But you knew that, right? ;-)

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17 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Hopefully hydrogen will be useful as a power source in some applications, in time. But the requirement that Challs go down this path is clearly being forced on them by GD’s sponsorship terms with Toyota, which is a touch unfortunate - maybe even ‘unfair.’

might this requirement. and the AC40's - actually put more in the ETNZ pocket than what they takeaway?

and its true. hydrogen seemingly non-existent except for Toyota - and the future of this technology far from assured. Fully electric boats, oth, would have been easy-as-pie and likely more relevant.

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Just now, floater said:

might this requirement. and the AC40's - actually put more in the ETNZ pocket than what they takeaway?

and its true. hydrogen seemingly non-existent except for Toyota - and the future of this technology far from assured. Fully electric boats, oth, would have been easy-as-pie and likely more relevant.

Revenue generation activities for sure.

Battery powered boats? I'm not sure they would be that practical for this use case. The Harry Metcalfe JCB video makes a good case for hydrogen applications.

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1 minute ago, floater said:

might this requirement. and the AC40's - actually put more in the ETNZ pocket than what they takeaway?

and its true. hydrogen seemingly non-existent except for Toyota - and the future of this technology far from assured. Fully electric boats, oth, would have been easy-as-pie and likely more relevant.

Imagine adding 'range anxiety' to the stresses of boating. Sheesh! :(

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1 hour ago, rh3000 said:

Revenue generation activities for sure.

Battery powered boats? I'm not sure they would be that practical for this use case. The Harry Metcalfe JCB video makes a good case for hydrogen applications.

I'd be surprised if you couldn't pile enough battery onto a boat to run it for the duration of a race or two. But I am no expert. And although I agree that hydrogen is an interesting technology - it does seem to have a limited future simply because. hydrogen. its not exactly the common and portable commodity that the wall socket aptly symbolizes.

again, my understanding is that Toyota made a technology bet more than a decade ago. and it wasn't the right one.

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42 minutes ago, floater said:

I'd be surprised if you couldn't pile enough battery onto a boat to run it for the duration of a race or two. But I am no expert. And although I agree that hydrogen is an interesting technology - it does seem to have a limited future simply because. hydrogen. its not exactly the common and portable commodity that the wall socket aptly symbolizes.

again, my understanding is that Toyota made a technology bet more than a decade ago. and it wasn't the right one.

I agree that Toyota's bet hasn't panned out well for personal vehicles, Nissan elected to take another path, go scorned for what was initially a low-range bug-like Leaf, but now have one of the better and mature electrical vehicle offerings.

In regards to battery duration - once they run out, they need to be charged, taking them out of action for likely the rest of the day. So you'd need multiple redundant boats, coupled with the cost of batteries - it starts look less economic and more wasteful than a good hydrogen rig. I guess this is why they got to this outcome. Interestingly Toyota has begun on electric vehicle route now - perhaps they have some commercial grade hydrogen rigs looking for good homes/demos to further differentiate them :-)

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4 hours ago, rh3000 said:

I agree that Toyota's bet hasn't panned out well for personal vehicles, Nissan elected to take another path, go scorned for what was initially a low-range bug-like Leaf, but now have one of the better and mature electrical vehicle offerings.

In regards to battery duration - once they run out, they need to be charged, taking them out of action for likely the rest of the day. So you'd need multiple redundant boats, coupled with the cost of batteries - it starts look less economic and more wasteful than a good hydrogen rig. I guess this is why they got to this outcome. Interestingly Toyota has begun on electric vehicle route now - perhaps they have some commercial grade hydrogen rigs looking for good homes/demos to further differentiate them :-)

Also, boats are probably less likely to develop the ERS systems which road vehicles are now piling into (to extend their BEV ranges). On the other hand, no reason why eboats couldn't carry additional portable battery power packs, just to get them back to shore in a range emergency, right?

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4 hours ago, rh3000 said:

I agree that Toyota's bet hasn't panned out well for personal vehicles, Nissan elected to take another path, go scorned for what was initially a low-range bug-like Leaf, but now have one of the better and mature electrical vehicle offerings.

As well as Tesla, I'm liking what I'm seeing coming out of South Korea, in terms of BEV's at the moment. Especial from the likes of Hyundai/Kia.

One thing is for certain, there's  no shortage of BEV performance. Those torque figures are astonishing. Bolt a motor to each wheel and you have a rocket ship, which gets the power down, like few IC machines can.

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1 hour ago, Varan said:

Go green... sail to the course like the rest of us.

If it's Cork, and a 15nm trip to the sailing venue, will they tow with hydrogen "chase' boats?

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7 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

Also, boats are probably less likely to develop the ERS systems which road vehicles are now piling into (to extend their BEV ranges).

The ocean going electric setups (Hugo Boss etc) can all use the prop and motor to recharge the batteries whilst under sail, its potentially easier to have an ERS on an Electric powered sail boat than a car, as it doesn't have to deal with the complexities of "charging and driving", its either driving or charging and not both.

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2 minutes ago, JonRowe said:

The ocean going electric setups (Hugo Boss etc) can all use the prop and motor to recharge the batteries whilst under sail, its potentially easier to have an ERS on an Electric powered sail boat than a car, as it doesn't have to deal with the complexities of "charging and driving", its either driving or charging and not both.

Fair point. 

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2 hours ago, JonRowe said:

The ocean going electric setups (Hugo Boss etc) can all use the prop and motor to recharge the batteries whilst under sail, its potentially easier to have an ERS on an Electric powered sail boat than a car, as it doesn't have to deal with the complexities of "charging and driving", its either driving or charging and not both.

Except it's a huge increase in drag...

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19 hours ago, rh3000 said:

I agree that Toyota's bet hasn't panned out well for personal vehicles, Nissan elected to take another path, go scorned for what was initially a low-range bug-like Leaf, but now have one of the better and mature electrical vehicle offerings.

In regards to battery duration - once they run out, they need to be charged, taking them out of action for likely the rest of the day. So you'd need multiple redundant boats, coupled with the cost of batteries - it starts look less economic and more wasteful than a good hydrogen rig. I guess this is why they got to this outcome. Interestingly Toyota has begun on electric vehicle route now - perhaps they have some commercial grade hydrogen rigs looking for good homes/demos to further differentiate them :-)

swap out battery packs, just like it should be done with cars....

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10 hours ago, JonRowe said:

The ocean going electric setups (Hugo Boss etc) can all use the prop and motor to recharge the batteries whilst under sail, its potentially easier to have an ERS on an Electric powered sail boat than a car, as it doesn't have to deal with the complexities of "charging and driving", its either driving or charging and not both.

Not really, nothing to do with the engine and prop.

 

Google "watt&sea" owner just happened to win the vendee whilst doing some product testing.

 

 

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4 hours ago, The_Alchemist said:

swap out battery packs, just like it should be done with cars....

Just like swapping your BBQ gas bottle. It would work for me. ;-)

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2 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

Can hydrogen packs be swapped readily? Or 'refilled' quickly?

During the 'oil crisis' (Arab oil embargo, 1973) there was a big push to convert petrol cars to run on CNG, here in NZL. Company fleet cars were converted and gas stations around the country almost ALL included at least one CNG bowser. Then petrol got relatively inexpensive again and organisations/people got sick of the idea - the expense in vehicle conversion and the relative lack of fuel saving Vs costs.

What it did prove was that the fuel (CNG) retailing infrastructure could be easily and quickly provided to transport.

The same would undoubtedly apply for hydrogen. But the remaining problem for hydrogen, is that it costs BIG to manufacture, unlike CNG.

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54 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

?

 Electrolytically generated hydrogen is very expensive due to the high consumption of electricity.

As an aside, a bit ironic, since hydrogen powered EV's then burn that hydrogen to generate electricity, no?

 

When I say 'burn' I don't mean as in combustion, but rather in an electrochemical process in the fuel cell stack.

Edited by Sailbydate
Clarification
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Tarifa, Spain one week, Sydney, Australia the next.

This time NO gets aboard an Aussie 18'er for a blast. Unfortunately, along with Kyle Langford and Ian Jensen, they spent quite a bit of time in the drink, in the first race of the evening. 

 

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6 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

During the 'oil crisis' (Arab oil embargo, 1973) there was a big push to convert petrol cars to run on CNG, here in NZL. Company fleet cars were converted and gas stations around the country almost ALL included at least one CNG bowser. Then petrol got relatively inexpensive again and organisations/people got sick of the idea - the expense in vehicle conversion and the relative lack of fuel saving Vs costs.

What it did prove was that the fuel (CNG) retailing infrastructure could be easily and quickly provided to transport.

The same would undoubtedly apply for hydrogen. But the remaining problem for hydrogen, is that it costs BIG to manufacture, unlike CNG.

Santa delivered the Tessie early yesterday and I didn’t get the opportunity to ask him as I was asleep as all good boys are however with all this conversion to electric cars devices and what-nots with no new hydro built in the recent past or foreseeable future is dirty Indonesian coal silently shouldering the burden of the rise in demand for electricity in clean green Aotearoa.

Hah my back up emergency plan is to put the 6.5kva Honda generator on the trailer towed by the Tessie to reduce range anxiety.

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7 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

 

What it did prove was that the fuel (CNG) retailing infrastructure could be easily and quickly provided to transport.

The same would undoubtedly apply for hydrogen. But the remaining problem for hydrogen, is that it costs BIG to manufacture, unlike CNG.

you might want to read

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0360319919310195

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21 hours ago, Jethrow said:

Except it's a huge increase in drag...

Indeed, I didn't say it was free energy :lol: but yes you have to opt to accept the drag penalty whilst charging same as you would with a hydrogenerator (on an IMOCA the sail drive legs are fixed, Hugo Boss actually had to work out a complex log system because usually the props are sealed to indicate they've not been used, so they had to come up with a system to show it had only been used for charging not driving).

12 hours ago, shebeen said:

Not really, nothing to do with the engine and prop.

Google "watt&sea" owner just happened to win the vendee whilst doing some product testing.

I'm aware of Watt & Sea hydrogenerators, which are a prop attached to a generator, but an electric motor (the engine I was referring to) can act as a generator, which is what I meant when talking about ERS

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1 hour ago, Priscilla said:

Santa delivered the Tessie early yesterday and I didn’t get the opportunity to ask him as I was asleep as all good boys are however with all this conversion to electric cars devices and what-nots with no new hydro built in the recent past or foreseeable future is dirty Indonesian coal silently shouldering the burden of the rise in demand for electricity in clean green Aotearoa.

Hah my back up emergency plan is to put the 6.5kva Honda generator on the trailer towed by the Tessie to reduce range anxiety.

A family friend in Takapuna bought one and towed his boat to his holiday home in, Tauranga. Not long after he returned, he sold the Tesla and bought a D-Max ute, for that specific purpose. Turns out towing using a BEV increases 'range anxiety', substantially.

You may want to review your back-up plan, bud. ;-)

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2 hours ago, JonRowe said:

Indeed, I didn't say it was free energy :lol: but yes you have to opt to accept the drag penalty whilst charging same as you would with a hydrogenerator (on an IMOCA the sail drive legs are fixed, Hugo Boss actually had to work out a complex log system because usually the props are sealed to indicate they've not been used, so they had to come up with a system to show it had only been used for charging not driving).

I'm aware of Watt & Sea hydrogenerators, which are a prop attached to a generator, but an electric motor (the engine I was referring to) can act as a generator, which is what I meant when talking about ERS

My apologies, I saw it on the flesh, but  was not aware that the latest Hugo boss (the beast) was electric!

 

https://www.boatsnews.com/story/35439/why-did-hugo-boss-choose-an-electric-engine-for-the-2020-vendee-globe

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11 hours ago, Priscilla said:

 is dirty Indonesian coal silently shouldering the burden of the rise in demand for electricity in clean green Aotearoa.

Burning dirty Indo coal serves two purposes. We can claim it helps to develop their country by buying things from then. At the same time we get to leave our cleaner coal in the ground and crow to the world about how amazing we are.

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8 hours ago, Rennmaus said:

Get the Ford F-150 Lightning and be done with any anxiety. 

But,but but...what about the planet? Oh, wait, it's electric.

Edited by Sailbydate
Because research...
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23 minutes ago, Gissie said:

Burning dirty Indo coal serves two purposes. We can claim it helps to develop their country by buying things from then. At the same time we get to leave our cleaner coal in the ground and crow to the world about how amazing we are.

You live in a country where almost 90% of electricity is generated through renewable means, and you still whinge about current spate of coal use whilst infrastructure catches up and gets us to 100%... something only 5 other countries have ever achived.

Never change Gissie, never change bud!

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