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It's pissing down outside and yes, we are back to Level 3. To all those moaning and bitching about it and calling the PM childish names, get a grip, we are the luckiest people in the world right

Yes, quite light but I didn't see all the afternoon's sailing, can only comment on later in the day, when Britannia 2 was running a #1 jib and foiling around no problem. They look quite quick at times

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On 12/25/2021 at 6:14 PM, Gissie said:

Maybe the other way around?

Nar Jizzie, Dalts promised megayachts, celebrities and hundreds of millions of dollars in ROI to New Zealand. Covid was no fault of New Zealand but, Dalts chose to go ahead with The Cup because he didn't want to loose the technology race. 

So, as far as we should be concerned, ETNZ is on breach of contract regarding the return to the New Zealand people of the massive investment made. 

To take The Cup offshore is a further breach of the ROI promise. 

If they do, they'll lose The Cup. 

The Swiss will take it off us again.

Quote me later if you like. 

 

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12 minutes ago, Salty Seacock said:

Nar Jizzie, Dalts promised megayachts, celebrities and hundreds of millions of dollars in ROI to New Zealand. Covid was no fault of New Zealand but, Dalts chose to go ahead with The Cup because he didn't want to loose the technology race. 

So, as far as we should be concerned, ETNZ is on breach of contract regarding the return to the New Zealand people of the massive investment made. 

To take The Cup offshore is a further breach of the ROI promise. 

If they do, they'll lose The Cup. 

The Swiss will take it off us again.

Quote me later if you like. 

 

My post was made after a few drinks and may not have been quite what was intended.

For me, ETNZ promised the earth and is now delivering shit. Taking it offshore is a big steaming pile.

Not sure if it will be the Swiss, personally I hope it is the Italians. It will also be the end of what we call an NZ team from any future cup.

 

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1 hour ago, Gissie said:

My post was made after a few drinks and may not have been quite what was intended.

For me, ETNZ promised the earth and is now delivering shit. Taking it offshore is a big steaming pile.

Not sure if it will be the Swiss, personally I hope it is the Italians. It will also be the end of what we call an NZ team from any future cup.

 

What "promise"? As far as I recall, Dalts has NEVER made any promises.

The rest is BS.

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Seems like sometimes people see promotions or pitches and take them a little too much to heart. Someone who is trying to organize an event often says they hope to or plan to or will get x number of competitors, and then if they fall short, there's always people who will condemn them for under-delivering or lying or something. It's difficult to promote anything without saying anything about the future, but the future is always uncertain.

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On 12/23/2021 at 6:47 AM, Forourselves said:

There you go, its not that hard is it!?

The difference is I don't bag and bitch and moan about them every chance I get, unlike you.

The other widely known, and widely acknowledged fact is, the Black Ferns are, and have been the benchmark, through sheer dominance. 5 World cups is proof of that.

 

okee dokee, can you stop on on that All Blacks rugby team then?

3 world cups from 9..nowhere close to the currently world #1 ranked springboks  3 wins from 7, (including the NZ referee who had to retire after taking his paycheque to eliminate them). 

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35 minutes ago, pusslicker said:

So free government money with no accountability? Must be nice.

Seems like he promised to hold the cup in Auckland. And he did. And he won. I guess there were other hopes and dreams that didn't come to pass. I guess sports events all over the world cost the communities that hold them. And some are bitter about that. Not really sure if we should just stop. And it's natural that the more aggressive among us are the people who own and run the teams and leagues, rather than the people who run national, regional and local governments. I am not sure if NZ or Auckland benefited overall from funding America's cup related activities over the years or not. It's always a difficult question to answer with any authority.

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2 hours ago, nroose said:

Seems like he promised to hold the cup in Auckland. And he did. And he won. I guess there were other hopes and dreams that didn't come to pass. I guess sports events all over the world cost the communities that hold them. And some are bitter about that. Not really sure if we should just stop. And it's natural that the more aggressive among us are the people who own and run the teams and leagues, rather than the people who run national, regional and local governments. I am not sure if NZ or Auckland benefited overall from funding America's cup related activities over the years or not. It's always a difficult question to answer with any authority.

Don't know of any here that are bitter about the money spend by both local and national government in the past. Was there an overall benefit, probably if you count the non sailors that had fun supporting what was sold to them as a 'national' team.

This time the deal was changed. Instead of fund the event, it became fund the event and the team or we will sell it to someone who wants it. Plus the money needs no oversight on how it is spent.

There was no way anyone in government could countenance such open largesse at this point in time. So off they go, leaving behind any idea of being a 'national' team. Instead, confirming they are a business first and formost. The only use they have for nationality is to limit many of the top sailors in the world from having a chance of joining a team. 

With B&T still not signed up, it does make me wonder if there were already undercurrents. Perhaps the nationality clause was targeted at them in particular.

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Seems like we should not conflate the past events with the new event. I was kinda pissed when Larry took the cup out of SF Bay. But it's reality. I am kinda pissed that Warriors moved to SF. I don't really care about Football so I don't care about Raiders moving to Vegas. I guess I would be pissed if A's move out of Oakland. But that's all emotional. The sports leagues exist because of the revenue they get and location matters. I don't really know what things Dalton and TNZ are dealing with but if they have to go abroad to run this event, then I will watch. It's up to each person whether they will or not. I guess most New Zealanders watch their rugby players wherever they play.

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5 hours ago, nroose said:

I guess most New Zealanders watch their rugby players wherever they play.

True, but they are a national team, supported by a national body. All supported by a world body. We are happy to support their away games, but also expect home games to support from our national team.

The AB's are having some monetary problems and were looking at selling an interest in their name. Sort of acceptable. Had they decided to sell themselves to the highest bidder and moved to that country for all 'home' games I doubt it would be acceptable. They would have been shown the door and asked to leave the name behind.

As for conflating past events with the new event, I suppose it depends on whether you consider the AC to a JAR. To me it isn't, but each to his own. Many now see it as a future part of some Red Bull circuit and maybe that is where it is going.

 

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12 hours ago, nroose said:

Seems like we should not conflate the past events with the new event. I was kinda pissed when Larry took the cup out of SF Bay. But it's reality. I am kinda pissed that Warriors moved to SF. I don't really care about Football so I don't care about Raiders moving to Vegas. I guess I would be pissed if A's move out of Oakland. But that's all emotional. The sports leagues exist because of the revenue they get and location matters. I don't really know what things Dalton and TNZ are dealing with but if they have to go abroad to run this event, then I will watch. It's up to each person whether they will or not. I guess most New Zealanders watch their rugby players wherever they play.

I'd be happy these fucks were leaving NZ if I was a Kiwi. It's just like when a pro team threatens to leave if we don't buy a new stadium for the billionaire owner. The ROI for TNZ is probably even less than a pro sports team. Fuck them. Having said that I hope TNZ at least gets a windy venue. Auckland fucking sucks for the AC.

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8 hours ago, Gissie said:

True, but they are a national team, supported by a national body. All supported by a world body. We are happy to support their away games, but also expect home games to support from our national team.

The AB's are having some monetary problems and were looking at selling an interest in their name. Sort of acceptable. Had they decided to sell themselves to the highest bidder and moved to that country for all 'home' games I doubt it would be acceptable. They would have been shown the door and asked to leave the name behind.

As for conflating past events with the new event, I suppose it depends on whether you consider the AC to a JAR. To me it isn't, but each to his own. Many now see it as a future part of some Red Bull circuit and maybe that is where it is going.

 

The Warriors are based in Queensland, and theyre still called the “NZ” Warriors. They can call themselves what ever they want to call themselves. 

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50 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

The Warriors are based in Queensland, and theyre still called the “NZ” Warriors. They can call themselves what ever they want to call themselves. 

I hope the team does as well as the Warriors in the future.

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12 hours ago, Gissie said:

Certainly my position. They can't piss off fast enough. Make a call on the new venue, pack their bags and move on please.

You'll be like a jilted, Ex. Still bitching long after they've gone.

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6 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

You'll be like a jilted, Ex. Still bitching long after they've gone.

Nah,not my style. Bitching about things already decided is pointless.

They are starting to be like the ex you had a final shag with and now won't give you back your door key. Moaning how you don't love them while asking to borrow your credit card.

Time they got their shit together and pissed off.

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5 hours ago, Forourselves said:

Yet here you are, bitching about the decision to take the event offshore, long after the decision has been made.

Except it hasn't. The decision has been made that they want to go offshore. But unless they find some money they'll have to resort to NZ

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15 hours ago, Forourselves said:

Yet here you are, bitching about the decision to take the event offshore, long after the decision has been made.

I am not bitching, just asking them to hurry up and leave. The sooner they follow through on their decision the better.

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On 12/23/2021 at 4:00 PM, dg_sailingfan said:

Do you really think Grant Dalton, Kevin Shoebridge, Russell Green & Co. care about if a case is been brought or not? They are all 3 confident that ETNZ/RNZYS can win otherwise they would have accepted an offer from Farmer for mediation already.

Do you seriously think they ever thought that someone would challenge their infinite wisdom?  They have said the agreements are the same they have had since they started, do you think they anticipated that they would defend the cup off shore?   They are just displaying their arrogance.

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1 hour ago, The_Alchemist said:

Do you seriously think they ever thought that someone would challenge their infinite wisdom?  They have said the agreements are the same they have had since they started, do you think they anticipated that they would defend the cup off shore?   They are just displaying their arrogance.

Who cares where its defended!? There is nothing in the DoG that says they should defend in Auckland. There is no tradition being broken in defending offshore either, so wht is the fucking issue!?

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6 hours ago, Forourselves said:

Who cares where its defended!? There is nothing in the DoG that says they should defend in Auckland. There is no tradition being broken in defending offshore either, so wht is the fucking issue!?

However many times you repeat this it's still specious. After all adultery isn't against the law and there are plenty of precedents. But that doesn't make it right.

As I have said before I dont really care, I just wish they would decide on a location. But I get why some (many?) Kiwis are pissed off

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18 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

However many times you repeat this it's still specious. After all adultery isn't against the law and there are plenty of precedents. But that doesn't make it right.

As I have said before I dont really care, I just wish they would decide on a location. But I get why some (many?) Kiwis are pissed off

What is "Right" is a matter of personal opinion. Your opinion (based on your personal feelings toward Dalton, or what ever) brings you to the conclusion that it is wrong. Daltons job as CEO of the team, and his duty to his team to ensure continuity in the future, and leaving open an opportunity for NZ to host a future event, post Covid 19, as well as past precedent, brings me to the conclusion that it is right.

Many Kiwi's are pissed off, but many of those would also be pissed off if it was hosted here too because they believe the AC is a waste of money.

Many Kiwi's aren't pissed off, and those are the educated ones who know why it must happen.

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1 hour ago, enigmatically2 said:

I just wish they would decide on a location.

As you're aware, this will indeed happen. Just not in YOUR timeframe. ;-)

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12 hours ago, The_Alchemist said:

Why not, all of the kiwi fanboys here have caved to supporting the AC going offshore.

Most of the Kiwi fanboys here have drifted away, with the few left defending the move.

I am one of the few still here and prepared to say how much I disagree with it all. The rest can't be bothered with the shit that gets thrown, it doesn't bother me.

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@Gissie

Thank God your Opinion doesn't matter to Grant Dalton, Matteo de Nora and Kevin Shoebridge. Dalts is doing what's right for the Team BUT even more what's right for the Event. He realized that he has to show these cool Boats, the Technology behind it, etc. to a wider, broader Audience and not just to a tiny population at the arse end of the world.

Whether it should be held in the Middle East or Europe is debateable but either of these two locations would be good Time Zone Wise.

And think about it. We have THREE EUROPEAN CHALLENGERS (UK, Switzerland, Italy). AC32 in Valencia was widely recognized as one of the best if not the best Cups ever and not just the Cup Match itself. The built-up, the LVC Acts, the LVC as well. Now there is a similar built-up possible with the new AC40 Class.

With SailGP locked in for Christchurch & Auckland 2023 & 2024 my guess is that the two Preliminary Events during AC37 will be held in Europe.

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Just now, dogwatch said:

I think you may find it's a phrase Aussies use about themselves.

Not only that, it really feels like being upside down too, certainly this new year's morning.

Wonder what those kangaroos were smoking, they were jumping pretty high.

Oh, and happy new year, you cunts!

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3 hours ago, dg_sailingfan said:

@Gissie

 

Dalts is doing what's right for the Team BUT even more what's right for the Event. He realized that he has to show these cool Boats, the Technology behind it, etc. to a wider, broader Audience and not just to a tiny population at the arse end of the world.

Dalts is doing what he can for himself. Not money, but history books. He is having to whore it out because he wants to commercialise it, all while making the most expensive vehicle possible.

As for the audience, please keep up. It was the most watched sporting event ever, in the entire universe. With all the cameras, plus the behind the scenes production coming, there is no need to be at the event.

And yes, we are at the arse end of the world. Still, considering the pathetic cluster fuck your own country has become, pleased to be here.

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18 hours ago, random. said:

Odds on it'll be in NZ.

Brinkmanship, holding out for more cash.

I really don't think they're holding out for more NZ cash this time. They made it clear to the government offer that they accepted it was the best they could do, but respectfully declined it due to being about $100m short. Both sides went to quite an effort to part ways without a bad word said.

After the successful defence, ETNZ were quick to turn down the suggestion of a victory parade. They new then that government money was unlikely to be significant, and an expensive parade would look in poor taste down the track.

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I had a chat at Christmas with one of the fraud investigators for the $3m lost by ETNZ (when they were fooled by the old account no. switcheroo trick). Apparently the majority of that money has since been recovered and returned. I don’t remember hearing that before but perhaps I missed it.

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1 minute ago, Sea Breeze 74 said:

I had a chat at Christmas with one of the fraud investigators for the $3m lost by ETNZ (when they were fooled by the old account no. switcheroo trick). Apparently the majority of that money has since been recovered and returned. I don’t remember hearing that before but perhaps I missed it.

No wonder. They found out they had ripped off Don Dalton and sent it back with an apology...

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22 hours ago, Gissie said:

No wonder. They found out they had ripped off Don Dalton and sent it back with an apology...

Still could wake up sharing a severed horses head in the bed. ;-)

 

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4 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Any guesses? Are those containers a sign that Magic is leaving? 

I took it as more of a sign that there is fuck all going on in Auckland with the AC and the sooner all the teams clear out the better.

Then again, it could also mean that AM is all packed up and there is fuck all going on in Auckland with the AC and the sooner all the teams clear out the better.

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3 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

Any guesses? Are those containers a sign that Magic is leaving? 

 

3 hours ago, Gissie said:

I took it as more of a sign that there is fuck all going on in Auckland with the AC and the sooner all the teams clear out the better.

Then again, it could also mean that AM is all packed up and there is fuck all going on in Auckland with the AC and the sooner all the teams clear out the better.

Did you guys miss the updated signage?

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10 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

So do you reckon B&T are definitely gone? Or waiting for a venue announcement like rest of us?

My guess, they don't want to be tarred as part of the team taking the event out of NZ and are gone.

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1 hour ago, enigmatically2 said:

So do you reckon B&T are definitely gone? Or waiting for a venue announcement like rest of us?

 

1 hour ago, Gissie said:

My guess, they don't want to be tarred as part of the team taking the event out of NZ and are gone.

Seems like if they want, they can stay in NZ and not have to worry about living abroad. They have done so in the past, though. I wanted OR to hold their second defense in SF, but I wasn't outraged about it.

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With the even stricter nat rules on sailors (but very weirdly and anti-Doggedly nobody else..) most of the the sailors now have zero negotiating power. P&B may choose to go do other things; maybe even while flying an NZ flag :) 

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22 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

With the even stricter nat rules on sailors (but very weirdly and anti-Doggedly nobody else..) most of the the sailors now have zero negotiating power. P&B may choose to go do other things; maybe even while flying an NZ flag :) 

Simple. Whoever wrote those conditions wanted to corner the market on home-country sailors, but wanted to hire design talent from elsewhere.

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On 12/29/2021 at 7:53 AM, Gissie said:

Certainly my position. They can't piss off fast enough. Make a call on the new venue, pack their bags and move on please.

except, the team will be here until the actual Cup. Sooooo you might have to get over yourself. 

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4 hours ago, enigmatically2 said:

You may be right, indeed to some extent I hope you are. But if so, why haven't they signed? 

Who knows, there is likely a few very good reasons why not that we don't know about, but none of us are P+B, or Grant, so it's all speculation and conspiracies filling the void at the moment.

Maybe Grant asked them not too until they are needed so he can pay them a cheaper retainer in the short term to help save the team some cash?

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1 minute ago, ChairborneRanger said:

except, the team will be here until the actual Cup. Sooooo you might have to get over yourself. 

Well maybe until the designated date when teams can only sail at the venue.

I do hope they have a venue sorted before this calendar roadblock, could be a bit embarrassing otherwise.

As for getting over myself, nothing to get over. The team, in my opinion, has acted like a profit oriented company. Think early days Brierley. Zero loyalty to anyone but themselves. So I am just reciprocating in kind, they get zero but doom and unmitigated disaster from me.

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4 minutes ago, ChairborneRanger said:

 so it's all speculation and conspiracies filling the void at the moment.

You do know this is not the be kind babysitters forum don't you?

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57 minutes ago, Gissie said:

Well maybe until the designated date when teams can only sail at the venue.

I do hope they have a venue sorted before this calendar roadblock, could be a bit embarrassing otherwise.

As for getting over myself, nothing to get over. The team, in my opinion, has acted like a profit oriented company. Think early days Brierley. Zero loyalty to anyone but themselves. So I am just reciprocating in kind, they get zero but doom and unmitigated disaster from me.

Loyal to each other, their supporters, their investors, their sponsors, and their backers.

In 2017, When NZ turned its back on the team, the team stayed loyal to its country and brought the Cup back to NZ.

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8 minutes ago, ChairborneRanger said:

As my tag suggest, I come here to keep crusty old seadogs in check.

By sitting in your chair admonishing those that don't care.

Hobby dear, get a hobby, as you obviously don't have a life.

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5 hours ago, ChairborneRanger said:

 

Maybe Grant asked them not too until they are needed so he can pay them a cheaper retainer in the short term to help save the team some cash?

Combined with the hiring of Nathan that would be a huge kick to the gonads. If true I hope they would have the self-respect to tell him to fcuk off. But I don't think GD would be that shit.

Personally I think more realistically it is one of 4 options:

1) GD preferred Nathan over B&T (still a kick to the gonads, but not quite as bad as you said

2) They didn't like the Jeddah option and are holding off to check it isn't there

3) They don't like going offshore at all

4) They want to concentrate on other stuff (Olympics, their charity etc)

Of those only 2 is likely to see them signing eventually

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6 hours ago, enigmatically2 said:

Combined with the hiring of Nathan that would be a huge kick to the gonads. If true I hope they would have the self-respect to tell him to fcuk off. But I don't think GD would be that shit.

Personally I think more realistically it is one of 4 options:

1) GD preferred Nathan over B&T (still a kick to the gonads, but not quite as bad as you said

2) They didn't like the Jeddah option and are holding off to check it isn't there

3) They don't like going offshore at all

4) They want to concentrate on other stuff (Olympics, their charity etc)

Of those only 2 is likely to see them signing eventually

maybe they wanted a big pay cheque, as  "hot property" they deserve one. Maybe GD can't guarantee them a big salary until he has the money side sorted. They don't seem to be money hungry guys, but no one can accuse them of maximising their value whilst in demand.

 

also, NO was offered to the backup helm role in SF behind Dean Barker, before going with Artemis. him joining ETNZ is a long time coming

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12 hours ago, ChairborneRanger said:

I come here to keep crusty old seadogs in check.

All hail ToiletRanger, for he is of great self importance.

Oh, great arbiter of SA.

Keeper of the check.

Your righteous light has finally lifted the darkness of the SA AC forum!

How have we done it without thee?

 

 

You are already a legend!

...in your own mind

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On 1/15/2022 at 6:01 PM, nroose said:

Seems like if they want, they can stay in NZ and not have to worry about living abroad. They have done so in the past, though. I wanted OR to hold their second defense in SF, but I wasn't outraged about it.

there certainly are parallels between Oracle and ETNZ heading offshore - but, imo, Oracle hardly engendered the respect earned by ETNZ from its home country. After all, TNZ has a long history in AC, and at all times backed ardently by the small sailing country and its citizens (from what I can tell). 

were there crowds of patriotic Americans cheering on Larry and team Oracle? hardly. They did carry the flag, I'll grant you that. But when their plan to stay in SF fizzled - the sound of a collective shrug was about all you could hear. What else could you expect from Larry (who, btw, supposedly first learned how to sail in Berkeley) - or in fact from the SF city council (who would rather let a wharf rot and fall into the bay rather than be seen giving a lift to a billionaire's yacht race).

Larry never engendered the respect granted to a Ted Turner or Dennis Conner. and similarly it seems that Dalton is more Coutts than Blake. Can you imagine Sir Peter Blake signing off on a foreign defense of the Cup? perhaps I'm wrong, but that just seem ridiculous to me.

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1 hour ago, floater said:

there certainly are parallels between Oracle and ETNZ heading offshore - but, imo, Oracle hardly engendered the respect earned by ETNZ from its home country. After all, TNZ has a long history in AC, and at all times backed ardently by the small sailing country and its citizens (from what I can tell). 

were there crowds of patriotic Americans cheering on Larry and team Oracle? hardly. They did carry the flag, I'll grant you that. But when their plan to stay in SF fizzled - the sound of a collective shrug was about all you could hear. What else could you expect from Larry (who, btw, supposedly first learned how to sail in Berkeley) - or in fact from the SF city council (who would rather let a wharf rot and fall into the bay rather than be seen giving a lift to a billionaire's yacht race).

Larry never engendered the respect granted to a Ted Turner or Dennis Conner. and similarly it seems that Dalton is more Coutts than Blake. Can you imagine Sir Peter Blake signing off on a foreign defense of the Cup? perhaps I'm wrong, but that just seem ridiculous to me.

I guess I agree. Larry hit huge with Oracle, mostly due to better tech around transactions. And then he has just been having fun. He stops at McDonald's in his Bugatti. He owns one of the Hawaiian islands. He likes to fly vintage aircraft. He wanted to buy one of the sports teams in SF, but always got shut out. Something about people not liking how he just throws money around. Other B's do it, but Larry adds a little flair, and he's a little dorky, so he comes across badly. And that doesn't fly around here. Or really anywhere else. I guess if Larry had done some charity, he would have gotten more love. Which makes sense.

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12 hours ago, enigmatically2 said:

Combined with the hiring of Nathan that would be a huge kick to the gonads. If true I hope they would have the self-respect to tell him to fcuk off. But I don't think GD would be that shit.

Personally I think more realistically it is one of 4 options:

1) GD preferred Nathan over B&T (still a kick to the gonads, but not quite as bad as you said

2) They didn't like the Jeddah option and are holding off to check it isn't there

3) They don't like going offshore at all

4) They want to concentrate on other stuff (Olympics, their charity etc)

Of those only 2 is likely to see them signing eventually

Option 5) They simply don’t need to. Holding off simply gives them more leverage to negotiate a larger pay day.

They’ll be earning a hefty pay check from Larry and Russell, which will no doubt need to renegotiated if the Team NZ contract is an exclusive one. Dalts has already given them an ultimatum, AC or Olympics, you can’t do both. One would think the same condition would exist for SailGP. 
They also need to know where Live Ocean fits into the picture if that contract ends up being exclusive.

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My guess is that if GD wants P&B to be exclusive to Team Malaga, or to Team Cork, or to whatever the hell that thing is going to be, and to as a condition cut out their SailGP Team and participation?

Larry and RC will win that negotiation in a heartbeat.  It's a 20-second conversation, max, before LE moves on to whatever the next skype thing is, which is likely to involve a thousand times more.

But I do hope there is AC-money competition for them above what SGP is setting as market-rate. SGP may well be happy enough for them too if they can get it.

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Doubt that SGP would prevent them taking a break for the AC. It'll let most of the other skippers do so. And it brings publicity to SGP to have the AC skippers in it.

Won't even have contracted 2024 yet anyway

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15 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

Doubt that SGP would prevent them taking a break for the AC. It'll let most of the other skippers do so. And it brings publicity to SGP to have the AC skippers in it.

Agreed, good possibility.

Shoebridge made a comment to NZ media recently about how 'we have to see what we will get' in a contract with P&B but it may have had nothing to do with their SGP aspirations - a racing series GD (along with BA and others) has only praised.

Much to the horror of ph..ph..ph.... omigod, stop! :D 

'Stop Continental Dift!'

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23 hours ago, floater said:

there certainly are parallels between Oracle and ETNZ heading offshore

That's the only similarity!

Oracle could have raced anywhere in the world regardless of how much money the host paid. Larry didn't have to whore his campaign to the highest bidder because he was the highest bidder.

GD, not so much.....

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