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It's pissing down outside and yes, we are back to Level 3. To all those moaning and bitching about it and calling the PM childish names, get a grip, we are the luckiest people in the world right

They towed out around 11am and the breeze was light and puffy to start with. Foiled down the Channel and headed out to the Bays. The breeze started to build around midday and they got some long runs i

After many hours of consideration, a lot of in-depth research on the SA technical threads, extensive computational modelling and a few quick & dirty minutes in Photoshop, I have produced this anal

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On 3/5/2020 at 12:59 AM, Horn Rock said:

Sars and Mers are more deadly, but don't spread like Corona. Its contagion is the big worry - it spreads very easily and infects way more people. They're already saying in NSW (Aust) that they're not going to be able to stop the spread. So while it is not as deadly as the other two, the fact that it will infect way more people means it will likely kill more.

It has already killed more (3,586) than SARS (774) and MERS (862) combined.

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5 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

Surprised it couldn’t stay up on the foils.

Maybe more concerned about not hitting traffic at that moment in time...:rolleyes:

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12 hours ago, uflux said:

Maybe more concerned about not hitting traffic at that moment in time...:rolleyes:

maybe, but they foiled past the traffic.  if you have full control of the boat with those "fantastic large foils" you should easily be able to keep it up in that amount of wind.  looks to me like they should have been more concerned with running aground. lol

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38 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

maybe, but they foiled past the traffic.  if you have full control of the boat with those "fantastic large foils" you should easily be able to keep it up in that amount of wind.  looks to me like they should have been more concerned with running aground. lol

They probably could have kept it on the foils, but decided not to.

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36 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

maybe, but they foiled past the traffic.  if you have full control of the boat with those "fantastic large foils" you should easily be able to keep it up in that amount of wind.  looks to me like they should have been more concerned with running aground. lol

So must be a fully foiling tack whilst working through busy traffic.. while avoiding the breakwater...okay check :blink:

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32 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

maybe, but they foiled past the traffic.  if you have full control of the boat with those "fantastic large foils" you should easily be able to keep it up in that amount of wind.  looks to me like they should have been more concerned with running aground. lol

The two things are related.  This piece of water is just outside the RNZYS.  The fly-by was deliberately timed to coincide with a regular night race 100 days before the cup started, as part of the promotional push at the time (there was chat about it happening the afternoon prior).  The water's deep but they have no reason to be there other than to put on a show. Executing a racing maneuver at the time a Reddit user was watching wouldn't have been high on the list of concerns.

But you can see it as a sign of poor performance if you like.

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4 hours ago, Ex-yachtie said:

The two things are related.  This piece of water is just outside the RNZYS.  The fly-by was deliberately timed to coincide with a regular night race 100 days before the cup started, as part of the promotional push at the time (there was chat about it happening the afternoon prior).  The water's deep but they have no reason to be there other than to put on a show. Executing a racing maneuver at the time a Reddit user was watching wouldn't have been high on the list of concerns.

But you can see it as a sign of poor performance if you like.

It wasn't a racing maneuver.  They don't train to put the boat down on the water after a turn.  A normal turn in that boat is to keep it up on the foils.  

So they did a flyby to impress the local sailors, but just didn't care if they made the turn?  I call BS, the foiling turns are the most impressive part of the show and it should be second nature for the team many claim have the most time on the water and with a boat that has large, high lift foils.

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2 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

It wasn't a racing maneuver.  They don't train to put the boat down on the water after a turn.  A normal turn in that boat is to keep it up on the foils.  

So they did a flyby to impress the local sailors, but just didn't care if they made the turn?  I call BS, the foiling turns are the most impressive part of the show and it should be second nature for the team many claim have the most time on the water and with a boat that has large, high lift foils.

Yep. They're fucking useless. ETNZ is doomed once more, through poor boat handling and sub-standard design. No wait....

Any other magical observations?

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42 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

It wasn't a racing maneuver.  They don't train to put the boat down on the water after a turn.  A normal turn in that boat is to keep it up on the foils.  

So they did a flyby to impress the local sailors, but just didn't care if they made the turn?  I call BS, the foiling turns are the most impressive part of the show and it should be second nature for the team many claim have the most time on the water and with a boat that has large, high lift foils.

Lol...Keep on trolling buddy :rolleyes:

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55 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Yep. They're fucking useless. ETNZ is doomed once more, through poor boat handling and sub-standard design. No wait....

Any other magical observations?

Doomed alright wonder what Te Kahu's handicap is in the classic fleet.

Chad on Prize can execute a dry jibe or two...

Prize.jpg.fd681878ff96782adc64016a53ab46ec.jpg

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I'm pretty sure they could have kept it dry. Everything I have seen suggests the small test boats are easier to tack & gybe dry. I'm still intrigued by the fact that all the teams are being coy about their ability to do that on the big boats. Coy because they can, or because they cannot? 

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4 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

I'm pretty sure they could have kept it dry. Everything I have seen suggests the small test boats are easier to tack & gybe dry. I'm still intrigued by the fact that all the teams are being coy about their ability to do that on the big boats. Coy because they can, or because they cannot? 

Don't you worry. Etnz been doing dry laps for ages.

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6 minutes ago, barfy said:

Don't you worry. Etnz been doing dry laps for ages.

I meant all the teams as it happens.

But if you are sure ETNZ is doing dry laps, how come, like all the teams there is so little evidence? The odd video a tack or gybe, but then a cut before they have really got going. I don't think I have seen a single video of any boat doing 2 tacks in succession without an edit.  Thats what I mean by coy.

Given their foils, if anyone can do it, it should be ETNZ of course

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err

cause weta says its so

and he has spent many hours watching them for nothing more than to give his observations here

if you look back through all his posts he will give you an idea of how many were dry and how many were bump n go and even the odd complete FU

 

and dont put to much weight on B1 and mules as to what the performance and efficiency of B2 when racing will be ( all of them not just nz )

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20 minutes ago, phill_nz said:

and dont put to much weight on B1 and mules as to what the performance and efficiency of B2 when racing will be ( all of them not just nz )

I am just hoping that the Poms boat actually looks like a boat.

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Rather than intent, arguably the more interesting point is the momentum she keeps through the maneouvre . Obviously dry laps are the goal for evreyone, but it looks like touch downs may not be quite as punitive as expected (certainly not as bad as the 50s)

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i wouldn't put to much into the vid of them buzzing around the night sail fleet either

you never know what the wind and tide were at time

they have been training .. obviously .. for an up down wind course and tacks in relatively clean wind and constant tide direction .. the tide flow and wind could have doing anything in that place .. not to mention the turbulent air from all the crawlers

 

ohh the angst .. yes those fabulous sail boats most of you have are now being relegated to the term  " crawlers "

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4 hours ago, The_Alchemist said:

Come on, that is you typical answer to every little blemish or anything they do that may not look right...    So juvenile...

 

 

Juvenile? WTF!? I think we've seen plenty of video of not only B1, but also B1.5 foiling EASILY. We've seen take off, maneuvering, touch downs followed by lift offs again from the Kiwi's, where we've seen next nothing from your AM team, except the same maneuver they performed right back after the boat launched. Yet here you are saying "Just because you haven't seen anything doesn't mean they're not getting anything done" 

Remember, they're the current holders, who demolished OTUSA in Bermuda. They know exactly what they're doing.

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21 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

Yep. They're fucking useless. ETNZ is doomed once more, through poor boat handling and sub-standard design. No wait....

Any other magical observations?

Ok, chicken little....  I just said is was surprising that they couldn't keep it up on the foils during a simple, orchestrated flyby since they kept going and gradually got back up on the foils.  

All the NZ fans tossed out a litany of excuses of why they didn't want to stay up on the foils.  I am the one that has higher expectations of your test boat.  They don't train to set it down during a turn, a normal turn (if they plan to win the AC) is to stay up on the foils.  Especially with a small boat on large foils.

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17 hours ago, Forourselves said:

Juvenile? WTF!? I think we've seen plenty of video of not only B1, but also B1.5 foiling EASILY. We've seen take off, maneuvering, touch downs followed by lift offs again from the Kiwi's, where we've seen next nothing from your AM team, except the same maneuver they performed right back after the boat launched. Yet here you are saying "Just because you haven't seen anything doesn't mean they're not getting anything done" 

Remember, they're the current holders, who demolished OTUSA in Bermuda. They know exactly what they're doing.

You obviously haven't seen any of the new videos of AM foiling around the harbor.

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26 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

Ok, chicken little....  I just said is was surprising that they couldn't keep it up on the foils during a simple, orchestrated flyby since they kept going and gradually got back up on the foils.  

All the NZ fans tossed out a litany of excuses of why they didn't want to stay up on the foils.  I am the one that has higher expectations of your test boat.  They don't train to set it down during a turn, a normal turn (if they plan to win the AC) is to stay up on the foils.  Especially with a small boat on large foils.

You seem very miserable to me. Maybe that chip on your shoulder is getting heavy.

Clearly, the Hawk was being flown around a fleet of classic yachts in front of the RNZYS, but rather than be impressed that it was piloted through heavy traffic (the first time IIRC that one of these foilers has been sailed in close proximity to any fleet, anywhere) at comparatively blistering pace, you scoff at them supposedly falling off their foils. Chicken Little, indeed.

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7 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

You seem very miserable to me. Maybe that chip on your shoulder is getting heavy.

Clearly, the Hawk was being flown around a fleet of classic yachts in front of the RNZYS, but rather than be impressed that it was piloted through heavy traffic (the first time IIRC that one of these foilers has been sailed in close proximity to any fleet, anywhere) at comparatively blistering pace, you scoff at them supposedly falling off their foils. Chicken Little, indeed.

No, feeling pretty good... I got no chip.  Why the personal attack? 

I just was surprised that they couldn’t keep it up on the foils.

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8 hours ago, The_Alchemist said:

Ok, chicken little....  I just said is was surprising that they couldn't keep it up on the foils during a simple, orchestrated flyby since they kept going and gradually got back up on the foils.  

All the NZ fans tossed out a litany of excuses of why they didn't want to stay up on the foils.  I am the one that has higher expectations of your test boat.  They don't train to set it down during a turn, a normal turn (if they plan to win the AC) is to stay up on the foils.  Especially with a small boat on large foils.

FFS. Its a test boat. Thats what its for, TESTING. They're not racing the test boat in the AC, so they can do what ever the f**k they like on the test boat.

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1 hour ago, The_Alchemist said:

No, feeling pretty good... I got no chip.  Why the personal attack? 

I just was surprised that they couldn’t keep it up on the foils.

Well, that's partly my point. You've automatically concluded they "couldn't keep it up on the foils", despite the obvious extenuating circumstances, which might support the idea a heavy traffic speed adjustment was warranted.

And besides, you'd have no truck with giving them the benefit of the doubt, right?

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2 hours ago, The_Alchemist said:

No, feeling pretty good... I got no chip.  Why the personal attack? 

I just was surprised that they couldn’t keep it up on the foils.

If you had ever seen this boat in action with your own eyes you would know she was tip-toeing through that fleet. She looks a lot more hectic when she’s wound up and has no issue getting through the manoeuvres dry. It’s easy when the computer does all the flying for you. 

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1 hour ago, Nustad said:

With Italy in lockdown what’s the chance the only sport we will see is the verbal sparring on here.

We are going to need some silverware then.

Anybody got Tommy Liptons contact details.

462C8583-71AB-416C-A142-FE65CD5EA895.jpeg.5b3eceab4b72fd719f11254a865eda9f.jpeg7E3CFBB7-882E-4553-A127-B96007086317.jpeg.cd9324837b65457b46334116f6cffc4b.jpeg

 

The name Lipton is from the gentleman who donated the trophy, a Sir Thomas Lipton, yes the same dude who had a crack at the AC a few times, back in 1920. Sir Thomas had a connection to the Ponsonby Cruising Club for a quite a few years prior to that. The story goes that way back in the day some likely lads from the PCC had a race they wanted a trophy for so being cheeky buggers they shot down to Davenport and took a photo in front of the Esplanade Hotel, a flash looking place of the time and still operating today. They sent the photo to Sir Thomas and said the club had spend all it's money on new clubrooms (at the time the clubroom was just a tin shack in a corner of what is now Westhaven) so couldn't afford a trophy for the big race, would he like to help?. Sir Thomas thought that was a bit ruff so donated the cup which became the Lipton Cup and it has been raced for every year since.

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2 hours ago, Nustad said:

With Italy in lockdown what’s the chance the only sport we will see is the verbal sparring on here?  Will be gutted if we miss the first match up.....

Could well happen.! A lock down like this makes it very very hard to do lot's of things. 

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The bit missing from that about Lipton cup as I understand it:

Lipton was giving out 100 (or 300?) cups to various sports clubs globally to be held as challenge cups.

Clubs had to send in applications with various details of the club to prove their existence, PCC sent in a pic of the members infront of Esplanade Hotel after a club dinner with their application.

Suitably impressed Lipton sent one of/the most impressive of the cups to PCC.

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9 hours ago, Forourselves said:

What "new videos" There aren't any. Thats the point.

Post 4689 in the NYYC thread had a amateur video of them foiling and turning in 6 knots of wind with the code zero and later in about 12 knots with a jib (almost 7 minutes of video).  I posted a list of speed calculations, etc...  it look like it has been removed from YouTube.  The H/H video has a few glimpses, has a take off and some onboard shots. 

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8 hours ago, Costro said:

 

If you had ever seen this boat in action with your own eyes you would know she was tip-toeing through that fleet. She looks a lot more hectic when she’s wound up and has no issue getting through the manoeuvres dry. It’s easy when the computer does all the flying for you. 

It does look like the boat taking the video makes them get too close to the rocks for comfort.  I can understand that, but saying it is a racing maneuver, or they just didn’t want to is ridiculous.  They don’t sail that boat to keep the hull in the water.

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2 hours ago, The_Alchemist said:

Post 4689 in the NYYC thread had a amateur video of them foiling and turning in 6 knots of wind with the code zero and later in about 12 knots with a jib (almost 7 minutes of video).  I posted a list of speed calculations, etc...  it look like it has been removed from YouTube.  The H/H video has a few glimpses, has a take off and some onboard shots. 

We don't care.

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2 hours ago, The_Alchemist said:

saying it is a racing maneuver, or they just didn’t want to is ridiculous.  

As is saying "They couldn't keep it on the foils" is absolutely ridiculous. We've all seen they can.

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3 hours ago, The_Alchemist said:

Post 4689 in the NYYC thread had a amateur video of them foiling and turning in 6 knots of wind with the code zero and later in about 12 knots with a jib (almost 7 minutes of video).  I posted a list of speed calculations, etc...  it look like it has been removed from YouTube.  The H/H video has a few glimpses, has a take off and some onboard shots. 

And again...take that 6 knots with a grain of salt. And a team "Puff video"? Of course they're going to show you the best bits, which is probably edited from many sessions and pulled together to make the video appealing. Thats how puff videos work.

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1 minute ago, Forourselves said:

And again...take that 6 knots with a grain of salt. And a team "Puff video"? Of course they're going to show you the best bits, which is probably edited from many sessions and pulled together to make the video appealing. Thats how puff videos work.

It was a fckg amateur video not put out by AM.  Can’t you read?

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Not an AM fan, but before that video came down the boat looked fast and manouvered well, with the exception of takeoff which seemed to take f o r e v e r

 

I don't know the method behind the speed calculations, but it looked quite quick. Comment on the video described it as 12kt with the jib only, 6kt with the code. Boat looked really quick is all I can say, and the conditions looked mild, no whitecaps and a bit of slop

 

Edit:  Not an AM fan is putting it mildly, there are probably car thieves I'd rather see representing my country

Edited by RMac
devos
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6 minutes ago, JJD said:

I hear there is a meeting of all teams today to discuss the way forward. Expecting to hear an update late this evening NZ time.

Italy is gripped by the kind of crisis not seen since WW2. It makes sense to cancel the Italian event and consider cancelling the Portsmouth one too.

More to come 

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1 minute ago, phill_nz said:

a last desperate lifeline for stars n stripes .. as now the " must compete at caliagari " cannot apply

There is no cancellation clause in the rule regarding disqualification for a no-show.

Off to court they go.....

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depending on how that goes .. either

stars and stripes is still in

or

they are all disqualified and we keep the cup by default

 

( its a court .. it doesn't have to be wise it only has to bend to whats written and the best argument)

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6 minutes ago, phill_nz said:

depending on how that goes .. either

stars and stripes is still in

or

they are all disqualified and we keep the cup by default

 

( its a court .. it doesn't have to be wise it only has to bend to whats written and the best argument)

Without any event, what would the difference be between an AM no-show in Cagliari and a S+S one?

Tricky one that...

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 Not really surprising that the screwed-up NZ Herald,  without a dedicated reporter, published an unsigned piece saying there would be a meeting today re the fate of the Cagliari event.

Herald fucked up again!

This from Gladwell's sail-world.com just under an hour ago:

"The latest update from the Challenger of Record organisation, who are solely responsible for the organisation of the ACWS event in Cagliari have issued the following statement.

"'The Challenger of Record 36 (COR 36) organisation is closely monitoring the developments regarding the Corona Virus outbreak and any potential impact on the America’s Cup World Series Sardegna – Cagliari regatta scheduled for April 23 – 26, 2020. At this stage there are no elements which prohibit the ACWS Cagliari – Sardinia to take place on schedule (23rd to the 26th of April), the Italian government’s decree of suspension of the sport activities/events expiring on the 3rd of April.

"Any further updates from COR 36 regarding the ACWS Sardegna – Cagliari event will be posted on the America’s Cup website.'

"Emirates Team New Zealand, contrary to media reports, have confirmed they have not been involved in any meetings with CoR36 today."

All that said and considered, ya gotta believe CoR will pull the plug on Cagliari and reroute everyone to Portsmouth, along with a cautionary statement that the decision is subject to review.

 

 

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15 minutes ago, Xlot said:

With the UK being just two weeks behind Italy

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1253111/coronavirus-latest-news-UK-death-symptoms-advice-covid-19-infection-rates-Britain

is Portsmouth any more viable than Cagliari? Perhaps, better shelve the whole wretched ACWS idea and make an early move to AKL

 

Not sure how NZ will feel about a load of shore crew, crew and boats turning up in the near future, especially considering where they are and the amount of airports and flight time. 

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29 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

ACWS Portsmouth

ORIGIN Sports Group who, in conjunction with the America’s Cup Defender Emirates Team New Zealand, are the organisers of ACWS Portsmouth today advised that event planning is well on track for the event being hosted June 4-7.

The organisers are highly conscious of the situation in many countries regarding the effect that COVID-19/Coronavirus is having on both sporting and public events, however are encouraged by the statement issued by the UK Government Department of Culture, Media and Sport saying there is ‘no rationale’ to postponing sporting events in Britain and that they are unlikely to be affected by coronavirus in the immediate future.

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1 hour ago, Xlot said:

With the UK being just two weeks behind Italy

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1253111/coronavirus-latest-news-UK-death-symptoms-advice-covid-19-infection-rates-Britain

is Portsmouth any more viable than Cagliari? Perhaps, better shelve the whole wretched ACWS idea and make an early move to AKL

 

The South China Morning Post titles that "China trumpets message of stability amid world turmoil as Beijing senses Covid 19 victory" after about 3 months fighting it. Perhaps Italy will be clear two weeks before UK ?

https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/3074495/coronavirus-china-trumpets-message-stability-amid-world

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27 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

The South China Morning Post titles that "China trumpets message of stability amid world turmoil as Beijing senses Covid 19 victory" after about 3 months fighting it. Perhaps Italy will be clear two weeks before UK ?

https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/3074495/coronavirus-china-trumpets-message-stability-amid-world

JFC please tell us you are joking... are you really unable to see the most transparent and cynical behaviour?

627758091_ScreenShot2020-03-11at1_30_13PM.png.abf4d2746d365e3f19b14e652a2da2ef.png

http://chinamediaproject.org/2020/02/27/a-fairytale-ending/

425519140_ScreenShot2020-03-11at1_31_47PM.png.54274a141347f11f812e07ae897c68c8.png

Lordy - it's no wonder your AC contributions are so frequently wide of the mark...  

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2 minutes ago, rh3000 said:

JFC please tell us you are joking... are you really unable to see the most transparent and cynical behaviour?

627758091_ScreenShot2020-03-11at1_30_13PM.png.abf4d2746d365e3f19b14e652a2da2ef.png

http://chinamediaproject.org/2020/02/27/a-fairytale-ending/

425519140_ScreenShot2020-03-11at1_31_47PM.png.54274a141347f11f812e07ae897c68c8.png

Lordy - it's no wonder your AC contributions are so frequently wide of the mark...  

What is very telling is that whatever the subject you are not able to take into account the different point of view, you put your head in the sand to defend you point of view, whether you know the subject or not, or for the sake of trolling.

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