Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Fuck, I come home from work, fire up the commodore 64, crank up the dial up modem, up pops this story, so I rush over here for all the in depth gossip, and nothing.

Shit, now I'm going to have to wait 15 mins for each porn photo to load instead. 

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 16.6k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

It's pissing down outside and yes, we are back to Level 3. To all those moaning and bitching about it and calling the PM childish names, get a grip, we are the luckiest people in the world right

Yes, quite light but I didn't see all the afternoon's sailing, can only comment on later in the day, when Britannia 2 was running a #1 jib and foiling around no problem. They look quite quick at times

They towed out around 11am and the breeze was light and puffy to start with. Foiled down the Channel and headed out to the Bays. The breeze started to build around midday and they got some long runs i

Posted Images

I admit it, it was me.

Its one thing pushing some insinuations about whats going on in the shed but damned if I'll keep quiet about Iocane powder, that shit is dangerous (if you haven't built up an immunity :P)

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, hoom said:

I admit it, it was me.

Its one thing pushing some insinuations about whats going on in the shed but damned if I'll keep quiet about Iocane powder, that shit is dangerous (if you haven't built up an immunity :P)

Don't tel them about the ether binges.  That shit's nasty.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Indio said:

It sounds more like someone in administration/accounting, leaking information and making "impropriety" allegations over some expenditures {eg allegations about payment to ship Dalt's race car to Aussie).

"This includes claims around structural and financial matters. We are working with America’s Cup Events (ACE) Ltd, and Emirates Team New Zealand in relation to the claims made," said Iain Cossar, General Manager Tourism.

I believe you are correct. The contractor "spy"  appears to have been working for America's Cup Events and thus had access to the ETNZ base. Not 100 per cent sure of the timeline but it appears to be a scoop from the Stuff media group. The reporter who apparently broke the story was Todd Niall, an old and reliable America's Cup hand, now with Stuff. He formerly worked for Radio New Zealand. 

I was surprised at the rather forthright ETNZ statement. Guessing that Niall went to them for confirmation and more information, and that forced the team's hand.

Richard Gladwell who is normally on top of this stuff, had nothing to add at this writing.

But the best bit of all was the NZ Herald which has been doing a crappy job of reporting on this Cup cycle and has no regular America's Cup correspondent. The Herald was caught flatfooted and "borrowed" big chunks of its coverage directly from its competitor Stuff, even including attribution.  That's a new low for NZ's "Award Winning" daily newspaper.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Horn Rock said:

They said information came back from Europe, which would suggest Ineos or LR. I'm going with LR.....

Europe sounds like the top probability.

Tough to see it as LR. Bertelli is old school and believes in honour and Max Sirena is mates with Dalt's. Of course it could be some other individual in the team,

I'd start looking under rocks in Portsmouth. Ben has a killer no-holds-barred demeanour as does the Ineos group,

Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Indio said:

What makes you think the leaker was a Kiwi? 

Based on as many facts as ineos being underfunded and Ben fucking the nanny... 

it’s a joke remember. 
 

on a serious note though, whoever it is/was it’s a shit thing to do irrespective of nationality and they deserve everything they get.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, JALhazmat said:

Based on as many facts as ineos being underfunded and Ben fucking the nanny... 

it’s a joke remember. 
 

on a serious note though, whoever it is/was it’s a shit thing to do irrespective of nationality and they deserve everything they get.

 

Agree with you there. Whistleblowing is one thing IF the informant(s) really believed there were improprieties in the organisation structures and finances. But if they divulged ETNZ proprietory design and technical information in exchange for silver pieces to a Challenger, then they should be castrated. 

I suspect we might hear more about this, especially if the informants signed NDAs when they were engaged. There might be legal consequences to come yet.. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, uflux said:

Sh&t will hit the fan when they find out which challenger he has been working for!! 

It may not involve another syndicate at all. ACE Ltd was set up as a full subsidiary of ETNZ in full agreement with the CoR. It sounds like the informant(s) were feeding "incorrect" information on the organizational structures in the ETNZ-ACE relationship and financial reporting (I'm just guessing here from the press release) to the CoR, which makes the "source in Europe" LR. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

This about sums it up, so far. Perhaps after MBIE has looked into the allegations they will provide more detail - or not. From

https://www.sailmagazine.com/racing/breaking-americas-cup-chaos-amidst-spying-and-allegations-of-misconduct-for-emirates-team-new-zealand

whether the information leaks are from a malicious spy looking to defame ETNZ or a whistleblower uncovering misconduct in the Defender of the Record's campaign is yet to be seen.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Very worried he will be. 
It will take a few weeks to come out properly 

People know already about how different their second boat is . 
 

people know they want to delay event once the teams have put their boats on cargo ships to nz.

loose lips .......

Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

whether the information leaks are from a malicious spy looking to defame ETNZ or a whistleblower uncovering misconduct in the Defender of the Record's campaign is yet to be seen.

If a team had a spy they would try to find technical info to help their team, not to defame.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

If a team had a spy they would try to find technical info to help their team, not to defame.

 

 

All we can do is speculate but from the given ‘let’s get ahead of the curve’ statement by ETNZ it sounds like it’s  financial/accounting more than any design-secrets related thing. Maybe Prada, since they are underwriting much of the event, had an auditor/accountant in there and grew suspicious about how the books were being run? Who knows... 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

All we can do is speculate but from the given ‘let’s get ahead of the curve’ statement by ETNZ it sounds like it’s  financial/accounting more than any design-secrets related thing. Maybe Prada, since they are underwriting much of the event, had an auditor/accountant in there and grew suspicious about how the books were being run? Who knows... 

GD is on RNZ as I write this. Kiwis. Doesn't have any belief any challenger is involved.

Once people confronted they have claimed whistleblowing as defence - hence the language surrounding news.

Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

All we can do is speculate but from the given ‘let’s get ahead of the curve’ statement by ETNZ it sounds like it’s  financial/accounting more than any design-secrets related thing. Maybe Prada, since they are underwriting much of the event, had an auditor/accountant in there and grew suspicious about how the books were being run? Who knows... 

My guess is that all local contractors are kiwis.

Dalts sport car tansport sound like whistle blowing even though it's a clear distraction of what real accusations are.

Link to post
Share on other sites

He's doing the rounds this morning, this from Newstalk ZB

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=12344067

Seems like they knew something was up, so did the old barium meal / canary trap, and it worked...

"We placed one of them effectively inside the main organisation literally just outside my office in with some guys - obviously all our guys we trust, but [who] knew what the game was.

"Then once when I was informed effectively out of Europe, the game was up at that stage."

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, rh3000 said:

He's doing the rounds this morning, this from Newstalk ZB

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=12344067

Seems like they knew something was up, so did the old barium meal / canary trap, and it worked...

"We placed one of them effectively inside the main organisation literally just outside my office in with some guys - obviously all our guys we trust, but [who] knew what the game was.

"Then once when I was informed effectively out of Europe, the game was up at that stage."

Seems like they knew something was up, so did the old barium meal / canary trap, and it worked...

From the same  interview:  'Dalton revealed members of the team became suspicious about December last year when actions did not feel what he described "dynamically right".'

The bit that no one has touched on is Dalt's statement that the spying involved structural and financial matters. Boat engineering structure or management structure? The latter seems more likely but who knows!

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, KiwiJoker said:

Seems like they knew something was up, so did the old barium meal / canary trap, and it worked...

From the same  interview:  'Dalton revealed members of the team became suspicious about December last year when actions did not feel what he described "dynamically right".'

The bit that no one has touched on is Dalt's statement that the spying involved structural and financial matters. Boat engineering structure or management structure? The latter seems more likely but who knows!

 

I think the implications are to do with funding and structural aspects there - GD gave the example of a lawyer working for both ACE and ETNZ and how their salaries are split vs their time working on each part...

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, weta27 said:

Just about to go and check, last saw them in the Channel, but it was so friggin' cold on the waterfront that I decided to have a coffee at home while they set themselves up.

Goin soft, Bud? Ha, ha.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, KiwiJoker said:

Seems like they knew something was up, so did the old barium meal / canary trap, and it worked...

From the same  interview:  'Dalton revealed members of the team became suspicious about December last year when actions did not feel what he described "dynamically right".'

The bit that no one has touched on is Dalt's statement that the spying involved structural and financial matters. Boat engineering structure or management structure? The latter seems more likely but who knows!

 

Legal entity structural separation between ACE Ltd and ETNZ. My guess would be a beancounter who feels more important than his/her role entails, and probably became disgruntled when not kept on fulltime during the Lockdown versus the more important designers and engineers who would have kept going throughout Levels 4, 3 and 2.

This is not the "spying" usually associated with AC teams trying to get info from the opposition because it is strictly prohibited in the Protocol. The local media made up the "Spying" headline as click-bait for what is essentially an internal determination of a contractor's failure to abide by their NDA and tittle-tattling to MBIE.

Nothing to see here...

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Indio said:

Legal entity structural separation between ACE Ltd and ETNZ. My guess would be a beancounter who feels more important than his/her role entails, and probably became disgruntled when not kept on fulltime during the Lockdown versus the more important designers and engineers who would have kept going throughout Levels 4, 3 and 2.

This is not the "spying" usually associated with AC teams trying to get info from the opposition because it is strictly prohibited in the Protocol. The local media made up the "Spying" headline as click-bait for what is essentially an internal determination of a contractor's failure to abide by their NDA and tittle-tattling to MBIE.

Nothing to see here...

Not sure about the lockdown part but yes I think it's a corporate structure thing and not passing foil tip designs to the enemy

Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, kenergy said:

Fuck, I come home from work, fire up the commodore 64, crank up the dial up modem, up pops this story, so I rush over here for all the in depth gossip, and nothing.

Shit, now I'm going to have to wait 15 mins for each porn photo to load instead. 

I feel your pain . In the 80’s I was a manufacturers rep for a variety of computer lines and one was Commodore :) I still have a Vic20 and Commodore 64 in storage somewhere .  

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

She looked very smooth and stable, no splashdowns while I was watching.

After a while they headed back down towards Bean Rock, into the teeth of the Southerly and then looked as though they were heading out to the back paddock, but stopped after a few gybes and eventually pulled the sails down and towed back in, slowly.

Two spy boats, apparently LR and INEOS.

Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Terry Hollis said:

Only the people who haven't worked out how to activate the "ignore" function.

No one ignores me. Not really. I'm right too often.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Priscilla said:

No torpedo bulbs on the foils.

20200630_082246.thumb.jpg.191a465fea62bece8c957a9c07cd0457.thumb.jpg.1a06ab1c8d2600cf7a1e5c5fc109d487.jpg

I think any upgrades on B1 will be under the hood. I think the foil changes will wait till B2. I still expect to see hawk out and about testing more foil variations from time to time. But if today is anything to go by. They have got am B1 running really stable

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, thetruth said:

Hmm sent them an email with no reply. If it wasn't them you would have thought they would make a press statement denying any involvement.....

look at their customers .. they have some very high profile and worth business's

send the customers a cc email asking if they suspect sensitive information has gone missing

mayoandcalder will be quietly shitting themselves atm

they stand to lose the whole business.. and any prospect of being hired by anyone else ( business and employee's )

 

marketing .. whoda thunked

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, thetruth said:

Hmm sent them an email with no reply. If it wasn't them you would have thought they would make a press statement denying any involvement.....

"We work closely with city councils, New Zealand Government, Government of Victoria, Hong Kong Government"

Victoria government not going great at the tic and I see the Chinese are about to side fuck Hong Kong.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

This is odd, even by AC standards. 

MBIE are the folks who pay the bills right? So it likely involves money. My wild guess is that someone has been meddling with accusations of dodgy dealings with the goal of either:

  • reducing the funding available for the AC event; or
  • reducing the funding available for ETNZ.

The Europe angle doesn't really add much clarity, as the info could have come back via LR (as COR) or Emirates (yes, despite the name the sponsorship money actually comes out of Europe).

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, BSPN said:

This is odd, even by AC standards. 

MBIE are the folks who pay the bills right? So it likely involves money. My wild guess is that someone has been meddling with accusations of dodgy dealings with the goal of either:

  • reducing the funding available for the AC event; or
  • reducing the funding available for ETNZ.

The Europe angle doesn't really add much clarity, as the info could have come back via LR (as COR) or Emirates (yes, despite the name the sponsorship money actually comes out of Europe).

or someone is leaking info about the state of ACE organisation, any studies done on the cost benefits of the current viability of the event (pre/post covid)

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, thetruth said:

Anyone know Calder or Mayo? Sad to see HK getting fucked. Lots of drama to come out of there.......

Yes, Met them last year for something non-related, also no reply just yet.

From teams to superyacht crews, they were off the charts busy before COVID, I would tread carefully to assume a non-reply means anything else other than your email is at the bottom of a deep folder.  If they are clean, this would not be helping the event so best to hold judgement. 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, maxmini said:

I feel your pain . In the 80’s I was a manufacturers rep for a variety of computer lines and one was Commodore :) I still have a Vic20 and Commodore 64 in storage somewhere .  

Beep

 

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, WakaNZ said:

.... If they are clean, this would not be helping the event so best to hold judgement. 

I was surprised to hear Dalts say that the "informants" lawyered up pretty promptly when confronted, something which a "high-profile" contractor would be very savvy about. The motives for the allegations may well be that the contractor has not been allowed to do as they please - they couldn't go to ETNZ hierachy, so they tried to leverage their government contacts to go behind ETNZ's back directly to MBIE. This feels like some corporate greedy power grab for more say in ACE Ltd which has backfired.

Good job Dalts!!

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I withhold judgement until further info is available.

 

If its those guys it seems hard to believe they'd be willingly providing false/secret info given the obvious severe consequences to their business if proven.

A loose lipped but not malicious individual or someone who legit feels they're whistle-blowing logically seems more likely.

On the other hand I will be happy to see them go down the gurgler if its proven.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

some of their client list from https://www.mayoandcalder.com/about-us

Our partnersHips

Tourism New Zealand
Pernod Ricard
DHL
Coca Cola Amatil
AON
Mighty River Power
Mainfreight
NZME
Fairfax
Heineken
Feenix
Willis Insurance
Volvo Group
Volvo Cars
Hyundai
Audi
Vocus
Ministry of Business and Economic Innovation
Hong Kong Sailing Federation
Long Burroughs
Minter Ellison Watts

Auckland Tourism Events and Economic Development
Auckland Council
Turners and Growers
Jucy Rentals
Contact Energy
Banklink
Puma
Samsung
Sport NZ
Emirates Team New Zealand
Minter Ellison Watts New Zealand
Volvo Ocean Race
TVNZ
Sky Sports
Peroni
Hong Kong Government
Heineken
Adidas
Nike
China Southern Airlines
Panasonic
Government of Victoria

Treasury Wine Estates
2XU
Asics
Air New Zealand
Hamilton Council
Villa Maria
Waipa District Council
Douglas Pharmaceuticals
Athletics New Zealand
Port Taranaki
Balance nutrition
Royal New Zealand Yacht Squadron
Cookson Boats
Southern Spas
Doyle Sails
DriPhone
Vodafone
DB Breweries
Royal Hong Kong Yacht Club
Vinda

 

even just the ones from the yachting world would be a hefty base to lose

there are as well many who support etnz .. and even more who would not want to be seen as anti etnz

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Priscilla said:

No torpedo bulbs on the foils.

Likely they have a pretty good idea of the foils they want for the match, no point in showing them off early or using up any of their 4 remaining foils until they really need to. Maybe B1 will never be fitted with a different set of foils until a set is discarded by B2.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, RobG said:

Likely they have a pretty good idea of the foils they want for the match, no point in showing them off early or using up any of their 4 remaining foils until they really need to. Maybe B1 will never be fitted with a different set of foils until a set is discarded by B2.

Extract from Sail-World by RG:

Te Aihe put in a three hour session punctuated with plenty of stops as adjustments were made to the AC75. As for the wings, the defenders appear to have reverted to running the same bulbless wings as they used up to when Te Aihe had her last sail in mid-January.

Speculation is that the old wings were used to recalibrate the control systems and settings on the boat to be the same as when it stopped sailing, and that state will be used as a benchmark when the new design developments developed on their 12metre test boat Te Aihe are tested in full scale.

America's Cup: Auckland's AC75 fleet doubles in a single day

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, fish7yu said:

They lawyered up very promptly and are now invoking whistle-blower status under their legal advice to claim name protection under our Whistleblowing legislation. ETNZ lawyers should be going through the NDAs with a view to suing the informants. 

Link to post
Share on other sites