Emirates Team New Zealand.

[JJD 203]

45 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Lol Rookie mistake..."I believe that’s the view of every person posting in this forum"

You should never EVER speak for everyone else.

Ok SClarke. To put it another way. 

You are the ONLY poster on this forum who doesn’t see that you are the absolute ini equivalent of Smackdaddy. 

[Forourselves 1,335]

41 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Crikey you make Smack look classy.

Coming from the guy that has nothing better to do with his time than hurl insults at Me. 

I get it. You think I'm a "fanboy".

I am, I'm a "fanboy"of ETNZ. Have been since I went to Auckland in 1987 and welcomed KZ-7 home, and 30 years later welcomed ETNZ home even though it was pissing down with rain. I'm also a "Fanboy"of the Black Caps and the All Blacks, and I'm proud of it. Sport is better when you get behind a team.

I'm also a taxpayer and I don't care that my tax goes toward a sports team that I support. I'd rather that than it going to paying for a fucking terrorist to get 3 meals a day and a roof over his head for the rest of his shitty life. But that's not my call, and I accept that. So Dalton can wear as many hats as he wants, and pay himself what ever he thinks he's worth as long as he wins and puts on an event Kiwi's enjoy. Thats his job.

If you have a problem with the team/ Dalton taking tax payers money, that's your problem, deal with it. But its not going to stop it from happening.

Taxpayers money is going to the team and the event, it already has, so you might as well get over it.

I don't care if you want to call me names like a 5 year old.

Insults from nameless, faceless anonymous posters on an internet forum don't bother Me. So you're wasting your time if you think your little insults are going to get under my skin. I come on here because I want to, not because others want me to, or don't want me to, just like everyone else does.

Like I said, I thought SD should've stayed.

But what ever.

Carry on.

[Forourselves 1,335]

8 minutes ago, JJD said:

Ok SClarke. To put it another way. 

You are the ONLY poster on this forum who doesn’t see that you are the absolute ini equivalent of Smackdaddy. 

There are a lot of people, myself included that thought SD should've stayed. I don't care if he's a troll. I really don't. If he can take it like he dishes it out, I have no problem what so ever with it.

Thats what the Iggy is for.

I don't give a shit if you agree with Me or not. Thats the great thing about the internet.

If you do, Great. If you don't, Who gives a shit?

quit moaning like a 5 year old because I say stuff you don't agree with. Put your point forward and be prepared to debate, Or just use the iggy

button. Thats what its for.

Sheesh. Its like its rocket science for some people.

[Terry Hollis 320]

1 hour ago, JJD said:

SClarke, you are in absolutely no position to to denigrate anyone’s credibility considering you have none. I believe that’s the view of every person posting in this forum no matter where they come from. 

I would like to think that a credible person would give his name and country.

[Priscilla 2,474]

23 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

I don't care if you want to call me a 5 year old.

Yup a bit of maturity would be appreciated and whilst you are at it add a bit of informational accuracy and a little less belligerents happy days.

[Sailbydate 2,874]

Pretty sure Smack is still here. Just sayin.

[Priscilla 2,474]

28 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Thats what the Iggy is for.

If you actually used it we could all get some peace fire away rather than firing blanks.

[Forourselves 1,335]

5 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Yup a bit of maturity would be appreciated and whilst you are at it add a bit of informational accuracy and a little less belligerents happy days.

What are you the School Principal now? 

[Forourselves 1,335]

Just now, Priscilla said:

If you actually used it we could all get some peace fire away rather than firing blanks.

I do use it. I'm using it right now. You see, I speak to you on my terms. Thats how it works.

[barfy 1,171]

3 hours ago, hoom said:

Since its been a point of debate in the Amway thread: TNZ got some mighty slender little spreaders.

wellll, maybe discussion?

but i'm at a real computer tonight so i thought i'd do a bicubic zoom of the bits. looks like a control rod running up the mast to just below the spreader. serious voodoo.

edit :shot by @weta27 sorry

 

[barfy 1,171]

from @weta27 shot i banged in yellow on the mast highlight to show the bend they are carrying .

edit: i put in a straight line for reference. It will take me a year or so to get up to speed with @Lickindip

 

 

[Randro 880]

39 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Pretty sure Smack is still here. Just sayin.

Yep. he's a lying cunt, so why would he do what he said?

[hoom 639]

1 hour ago, barfy said:

looks like a control rod running up the mast to just below the spreader.

Thats just the lower isn't it?

 

1 hour ago, barfy said:

i banged in yellow on the mast highlight to show the bend they are carrying .

I wanted to mention that but I decided I was just seeing things

[barfy 1,171]

13 minutes ago, hoom said:

Thats just the lower isn't it?

Yes, you're Probly correct there. So still voodoovoodoo.

[NeedAClew 1,210]

Honestly, I think a lot of the furor over use or misuse of NZ "public funds" is because NZ does not waste enough public money in an absolute or percentage sense. We're #1 in that and now that we're also world leaders in covid we don't fuss over a wasted billion here or there.

 

[weta27 5,035]

Front-on: to paraphrase Trumpelstiltskin, "there are very fine spreaders on both sides"

Also looks like upwards-pointing cameras or sensors mounted on them.

[weta27 5,035]

As the shadow shows, the spreaders are slightly cigar-shaped

[Lickindip 541]

11 hours ago, barfy said:

from @weta27 shot i banged in yellow on the mast highlight to show the bend they are carrying .

edit: i put in a straight line for reference. It will take me a year or so to get up to speed with @Lickindip

 

 

nice effort

First rule of drawing ... make sure you have a flat piece of paper

the boat is not square on and it's slightly rotated away from you, the section of the mast also reduces in the to 1/3rd or so, I would imagine the Flat section of the D needs to be built straight so pinch the line to the back of the mast

from this view, there seems to be a slight consistant Bow

here is one I prepared earlier

 

[Sailbydate 2,874]

It's a dark art, alright. ;-)

[barfy 1,171]

1 hour ago, Lickindip said:

so, I would imagine the Flat section of the D needs to be built straight so pinch the line to the back of the mast

I cheated on the mast line. I did a selection on the highlight and filled that . I used Photoshop, not really the correct tool. Am proficient in Maya for vector, but again not quite right.

[weta27 5,035]

Have a play with this one, almost square-on.

[Lickindip 541]

i spy with my little eye 164mm of bow in the middle

and it's a different mainsail

[rh3000 1,692]

https://www.sail-world.com/news/231164/Americas-Cup-audit--Weve-seen-this-movie-before

Even if you consider Richard Gladwell a 'friend' of ETNZ, this article discloses some new detail and information.

[Stingray~ 1,522]

On 8/29/2020 at 3:14 PM, Sailbydate said:

Still at it, Stinger? The ultimate shit-raker. 

C’mon, why try shoot this messenger? My take on the BV report was an eyebrows riser much like what this Kiwi took from it. 
 

‘Good headlines’ but wtf? is basically what I originally posted, this article agrees. 
 

I don’t actually care if MBIE loses the argument or not but the subject is headlines in NZ for now, why should we here ignore it? 

[Kiwing 446]

@Lickindip I will bin mine, yours is so much more accurate.  So they have managed to bow a carbon fibre mast.  Or did they make it like that?  Are the others bending there masts? begs the question?

[Lickindip 541]

Just now, Kiwing said:

@Lickindip I will bin mine, yours is so much more accurate.  So they have managed to bow a carbon fibre mast.  Or did they make it like that?  Are the others bending there masts? begs the question?

from the transport pictures they look to be straight ... easy to get some flex into the mast if you design it to be that way

 

looks like ETNZ have opted for the smallest length allowed at the upper mast plane of 2.6m

[mikenz2 1,536]

 

[Stingray~ 1,522]

1 minute ago, mikenz2 said:

 

Thanks Mike, for your extra effort to include the PredictWind graphics. 

[weta27 5,035]

Nice video, thanks!

[Lickindip 541]

back to the larger (at the top) Main

[weta27 5,035]

 

22 minutes ago, Lickindip said:

back to the larger (at the top) Main

Good spotting. Yes, the square-on photo I posted was taken back on 30th of June.

[rh3000 1,692]

@mikenz2 have they gone back in? At St heliers lookout and can't spot em anywhere.

[mikenz2 1,536]

1 minute ago, rh3000 said:

@mikenz2 have they gone back in? At St heliers lookout and can't spot em anywhere.

Yep, they've headed back in.

[mikenz2 1,536]

Just now, mikenz2 said:

Yep, they've headed back in.

It was rather unexpected - they came up the harbour at speed, looking very normal, with only one chase boat then just kept going. Eventually the rest of the chase/spy boats followed. 

[weta27 5,035]

Damn, missed them. They put on quite a show! 

[mikenz2 1,536]

Short clip of them coming in at the end of the session and me getting sorted, I fully expected them to tack back out and they never did.

 

[weta27 5,035]

3 hours ago, rh3000 said:

https://www.sail-world.com/news/231164/Americas-Cup-audit--Weve-seen-this-movie-before

Even if you consider Richard Gladwell a 'friend' of ETNZ, this article discloses some new detail and information.

That's a good article, it puts things in a much broader context.

[fish7yu 557]

1 hour ago, mikenz2 said:

Short clip of them coming in at the end of the session and me getting sorted, I fully expected them to tack back out and they never did.

 

 

With restrictions easing, doubling back to the pub? 

[Indio 955]

32 minutes ago, weta27 said:

That's a good article, it puts things in a much broader context.

The government contribution is from the Tourism NZ budget - just like AC34 and -35. Now then, if Tourism NZ did not sponsor ETNZ but spent their contribution on advertising and promotional work around the world, do you think anyone in the country would seriously expect to see an accounting of exactly how the TNZ funds were spent?? Yet here we are...again. Can't help but feel there's a strong green-eyed infection behind the sneering at ETNZ.

I would not blame Dalts if he takes their AC37 Defence elsewhere, but he won't. He's a proud Kiwi who deserves a lot better that he receives from some quarters.

[Sailbydate 2,874]

^ Love your optimism there, Indio. Not even a momentary doubt, or hesitation. Good onya. ;-)

1 hour ago, Indio said:

I would not blame Dalts if he takes their AC37 Defence elsewhere...

 

[KiwiJoker 370]

2 hours ago, Indio said:

The government contribution is from the Tourism NZ budget - just like AC34 and -35. Now then, if Tourism NZ did not sponsor ETNZ but spent their contribution on advertising and promotional work around the world, do you think anyone in the country would seriously expect to see an accounting of exactly how the TNZ funds were spent?? Yet here we are...again. Can't help but feel there's a strong green-eyed infection behind the sneering at ETNZ.

I would not blame Dalts if he takes their AC37 Defence elsewhere, but he won't. He's a proud Kiwi who deserves a lot better that he receives from some quarters.

MBIE - and by default Dalton - really didn't have an option to keep schram after the M&C allegations, and especially after the media got hold of it and the feeding frenzy went all the way to the High Court.

And Dalts did what he does best - attack as the best form of defence.

If indeed there is much sneering at ETNZ I suspect it stems largely from ignorance of the true state of play.

[Forourselves 1,335]

 

[Forourselves 1,335]

[Forourselves 1,335]

[hoom 639]

12 hours ago, Kiwing said:

So they have managed to bow a carbon fibre mast.

Not the fact its carbon but that its a proportionally fat D section.

[Sailbydate 2,874]

Perfect day for some sailing. Any dock-out action?

[he b gb 91]

14 hours ago, Forourselves said:

That’s an awesome photo!

[I ride bikes 110]

12 hours ago, hoom said:

Not the fact its carbon but that its a proportionally fat D section.

D sections are used in carbon bicycle seat posts to allow splay compliance aft, whilst maintaining stiffness torsionally and laterally.  

[Indio 955]

3 hours ago, I ride bikes said:

D sections are used in carbon bicycle seat posts to allow splay compliance aft, whilst maintaining stiffness torsionally and laterally.  

A member of our ETNZ team is also quite keen on riding bikes

[Xlot 950]

10 hours ago, I ride bikes said:

D sections are used in carbon bicycle seat posts to allow splay compliance aft, whilst maintaining stiffness torsionally and laterally.  

For all I know, those posts may have been designed by LR’s composite specialists. Ergo, , the possibility of carbon fiber shards impaling a certain portion of one’s anatomy Is not enticing

 

[RobG 770]

11 hours ago, I ride bikes said:

D sections are used in carbon bicycle seat posts to allow splay compliance aft…

Heaven forbid that anyone's aft should not be splay compliant…

[Fiji Bitter 1,518]

3 minutes ago, RobG said:

Heaven forbid that anyone's aft should not be splay compliant…

How true, I'd better double check mine!

 

[atwinda 95]

On 8/30/2020 at 4:00 PM, Kiwing said:

@Lickindip I will bin mine, yours is so much more accurate.  So they have managed to bow a carbon fibre mast.  Or did they make it like that?  Are the others bending there masts? begs the question?

I hope you realize that virtually every mast (spar, boom, bowsprit, beam, the whole boat, for that matter) bends. Wood, alloy, carbon- they all bend. The standing rigging limits, controls, and often induces bend (think backstays and runners). 170mm is nothing on a rig that length. Have you ever looked at a skiff rig? Mast bend (fore and aft, side to side) is elementary in understanding how to set up and trim a main, just as headstay tension is elementary to set up and trim a headsail. To think that the masts on any race boat would be static and straight isn't even in the conceptual ballpark.

[craigj 27]

Hey atwinda, 

Are you sure about carbon bending? ; > )

[atwinda 95]

1 hour ago, craigj said:

Hey atwinda, 

Are you sure about carbon bending? ; > )

impossible  ... The DN was another example I was going to suggest.. but if Kiwing is actually from NZ then he might have had any exposure to iceboats, so skiffs are a more widespread example.

[Kiwing 446]

being a 75 year old Laser sailor, I know sweet f'all about shaping a main with all those adjustments.  But I thought, naively that carbon fibre was brittle?  Looking at that picture I wonder how many of those masts go "bang!!" with shards everywhere?
This D mast has quite a big cross section I thought it would be hard to bend but .....?  The aft side must open a little when it bends? which must provide some flexibility fore and aft?

[JALhazmat 1,271]

Carbon is brittle in relation to impact and point loading. But it can be layed up into very accurate and precise flex patterns. 
 

the flex/bend in that mast isnt unusual in terms of the deflection of a structure like that. 
 

realistically it would be possible to control twist in high wind by increasing the bend to free off the leech of the rig, exactly what you do with the Cunningham on your laser. 

[atwinda 95]

11 minutes ago, Kiwing said:

being a 75 year old Laser sailor, I know sweet f'all about shaping a main with all those adjustments.  But I thought, naively that carbon fibre was brittle?  Looking at that picture I wonder how many of those masts go "bang!!" with shards everywhere?
This D mast has quite a big cross section I thought it would be hard to bend but .....?  The aft side must open a little when it bends? which must provide some flexibility fore and aft?

In the case of a laser- you control mast bend with the mainsheet and Cunningham. The more main sheet you pull on, pulls on the leech, which in turn pulls on the head of the sail, and therefore the mast. 

[TimmyHate 98]

22 minutes ago, Kiwing said:

 But I thought, naively that carbon fibre was brittle?  Looking at that picture I wonder how many of those masts go "bang!!" with shards everywhere?
 

Ice Hockey sticks are carbon fibre and take on some pretty extreme loads when the pros shoot with them. They do snap on occasion, but in 90% of cases its because its been slashed by another stick, or stood on with a skate. 

[Sea Breeze 74 587]

Just a minor (now historical) tidbit from Bermuda.

I was talking to a guy from Southern Spars who built ETNZ's foils for AC35. He said they were ultra-sounding every day and the damage had got so bad they were expecting the foil to give at any moment. Their advise to TNZ in the final race was to hold back and nurse it as much as they could. The crew ignored them and went for glory.

[The_Alchemist 1,324]

2 hours ago, atwinda said:

impossible  ... The DN was another example I was going to suggest.. but if Kiwing is actually from NZ then he might have had any exposure to iceboats, so skiffs are a more widespread example.

or graphite golf shafts with differing flex ranges.

[The_Alchemist 1,324]

46 minutes ago, Sea Breeze 74 said:

Just a minor (now historical) tidbit from Bermuda.

I was talking to a guy from Southern Spars who built ETNZ's foils for AC35. He said they were ultra-sounding every day and the damage had got so bad they were expecting the foil to give at any moment. Their advise to TNZ in the final race was to hold back and nurse it as much as they could. The crew ignored them and went for glory.

Just like Spithill saying they had some mast breakage in the last race of the cup in SF.  They were grinding and gluing patches as NZ was practicing.  They told him to take it easy and give time for the glue to set, but he was flying 40 knots right at the start.

[Stingray~ 1,522]

1 hour ago, Sea Breeze 74 said:

He said they were ultra-sounding every day and the damage had got so bad they were expecting the foil to give at any moment.

Dalts admitted as much after the win, said he spent a lot of sleepless nights worrying about if that set of slow, extreme-light-air foils would break. He’d also been concerned about if the wind would freshen after the 5 day break. 

[phill_nz 652]

and the obvious fishing rods

esp trout rods

[Liquid 307]

21 hours ago, TimmyHate said:

Ice Hockey sticks are carbon fibre and take on some pretty extreme loads when the pros shoot with them. They do snap on occasion, but in 90% of cases its because its been slashed by another stick, or stood on with a skate. 

So, so much better than their ancient wooden ancestors!

But $200+ for a hockey stick - and you don't show up to play with just one...

[Fiji Bitter 1,518]

On 9/2/2020 at 6:29 AM, craigj said:

Hey atwinda, 

Are you sure about carbon bending? ; > )

On 9/2/2020 at 8:50 AM, TimmyHate said:

 

Love these pictures of bendy carbon fiber, and must say that I was a bit surprised how extreme they bend. They surely must be using a low modulus carbon fiber.

The AC75 rule only specifies a maximum modulus, so they could easily make it a bit more bendy, but I doubt they would like to introduce a less controllable variable.

And dinghy classes with square head mainsails seem to have gone to stiffer mast as well.

BTW, the British 12 meter Lionheart had (or still has?) a very bendy fiberglass top section.

 

[Ncik 171]

 

With the correct laminate schedule and fibre modulus, carbon can bend however you want. I used to make model yacht masts and tested their impact strength by smashing a test section against the corner or a table, without failure.

[I ride bikes 110]

Higher the modulus = more stiffness, less weight, more brittle.  Layup schedule is everything.  

 

 

[SCARECROW 591]

4 hours ago, Fiji Bitter said:

BTW, the British 12 meter Lionheart had (or still has?) a very bendy fiberglass top section.

 

Yes it did / does, but that's Australia (KA5)

 

[Forourselves 1,335]

 

 

[Fiji Bitter 1,518]

53 minutes ago, SCARECROW said:

Yes it did / does, but that's Australia (KA5)

Fuck yeah, I wondered why and where she was racing Freedom, my bad!

Let's try again...

(Photo credit: Prick Picktall Library.)

I believe Australia (1) copied Lionheart's bendy mast in the last moment. 

PS.

Just see there was a thread on Lionheart:

 

 

Edited September 3, 2020 by Fiji Bitter
PS

[hoom 639]

Hmm, I had been assuming the D was OD -> odd that one might be more bendy than others but actually its a lot more open than I assumed

Quote

20.3

The mast tube laminate provided by Rule 20.1 (b) is a minimum required laminate.

Laminates resulting in greater fibre weight, resin content, core density, and/or core thickness than specified in the mast drawing package are permitted.

Additional reinforcements are permitted and may be external to the mast surface but must remain within the tolerances given in Rule 20.2.

 

[hairyharford 49]

5 hours ago, I ride bikes said:

Higher the modulus = more stiffness, less weight, more brittle.  Layup schedule is everything.  

 

 

the matrix/resin is the key

high temperature cured pre-pregs are massively tougher and more flexible . you will be able to achieve the similar bend characteristics with different fibers but within reason you just need less of the high modulus stuff  -- lighter

[D_Dog 65]

First time posting, so I thought I would get into it with some yellow lines... 

Grab from the recent video. Clearly a lot of parallax error and conditions would make a difference for VMG, but what do we think of the upwind angle here from the two tacks? Seems like they sail pretty close to the wind to me.

[JJD 203]

22 minutes ago, D_Dog said:

First time posting, so I thought I would get into it with some yellow lines... 

Grab from the recent video. Clearly a lot of parallax error and conditions would make a difference for VMG, but what do we think of the upwind angle here from the two tacks? Seems like they sail pretty close to the wind to me.

Tits Please.

[RMac 306]

41 minutes ago, D_Dog said:

First time posting, so I thought I would get into it with some yellow lines... 

Grab from the recent video. Clearly a lot of parallax error and conditions would make a difference for VMG, but what do we think of the upwind angle here from the two tacks? Seems like they sail pretty close to the wind to me.

I saw that too! Yep, pretty pinchy, bet they drop down into the 40s if they try and cheat like that

[Varan 1,979]

2 hours ago, JJD said:

Tits Please.

With yellow lines

[Fiji Bitter 1,518]

6 hours ago, JJD said:

Tits Please.

Good first post, so one is enough:

It clearly shows she is pinching, though.

 

[weta27 5,035]

My sincere apologies for changing the subject ... 

But I had to post here asap - both B1s in the same stretch of water and a seagull!

Taken a short while ago off the Bays. Te Aihe has since headed out around the back of Rangi, while Defiant is working around Whangaparaoa and the Bays.

Beautiful day, nice breeze.

[Boink 672]

43 minutes ago, weta27 said:

But I had to post here asap - both B1s in the same stretch of water and a seagull!

 

Giving away state secrets with a verifiable speed check to boot...... 

Fuck Weta, you had better not step on any of the cracks in the pavement.

You will be a marked man. Stay alert brother.

(On a more serious note, it is interesting to see how much more fibre the luff of Defiant jib's running - these are Doyle sails re-branded as Quantum - so running the Structured Luff system?)

 

[Stingray~ 1,522]

55 minutes ago, weta27 said:

My sincere apologies for changing the subject ... 

But I had to post here asap - both B1s in the same stretch of water and a seagull!

Taken a short while ago off the Bays. Te Aihe has since headed out around the back of Rangi, while Defiant is working around Whangaparaoa and the Bays.

Beautiful day, nice breeze.

That’s a Te Kahu

[weta27 5,035]

16 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

That’s a Te Kahu

You could be right! Three in one ...

I also got to see Te Aihe launch off the tow - they towed into the middle of the harbor with sails up in a decent breeze.

The tow RIB eases off slightly, Te Aihe lifts the windward foil, the guy at the base of the mast lets the line go (third shot) and Te Aihe flies away ...

[The_Alchemist 1,324]

1 hour ago, weta27 said:

My sincere apologies for changing the subject ... 

But I had to post here asap - both B1s in the same stretch of water and a seagull!

Taken a short while ago off the Bays. Te Aihe has since headed out around the back of Rangi, while Defiant is working around Whangaparaoa and the Bays.

Beautiful day, nice breeze.

Jousting with foils up!

[weta27 5,035]

[weta27 5,035]

With INEOS in pursuit!

[Filthy Phill 77]

Saw Defiant being towed out and Te Aihe sailing out while checking on my boat....first time seeing AC75. Most impressive.  Can't wait for racing to start.