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It's pissing down outside and yes, we are back to Level 3. To all those moaning and bitching about it and calling the PM childish names, get a grip, we are the luckiest people in the world right

Yes, quite light but I didn't see all the afternoon's sailing, can only comment on later in the day, when Britannia 2 was running a #1 jib and foiling around no problem. They look quite quick at times

They towed out around 11am and the breeze was light and puffy to start with. Foiled down the Channel and headed out to the Bays. The breeze started to build around midday and they got some long runs i

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6 hours ago, Kiwing said:

Come on ETNZ give us some news!

Was anyone hurt?  Will the boat sail again or is boat two too close?

Something please!

Considering ETNZ history they have in the past held their cards close to their chest. I suspect (don’t know) that during the last challenger series that ETNZ threw their matches against Oracle to keep oracle in the dark about the true speed difference. In AC34 maybe they let the cat out of the bag to early about Foiling cats.  

I wonder if GD will be more secretive in this cup because as the defender they don’t have to go through a challenger series so in effect have more time up their sleeve. 
 

With this logic maybe B2 will be kept dry 

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50 minutes ago, mako23 said:

Considering ETNZ history they have in the past held their cards close to their chest. I suspect (don’t know) that during the last challenger series that ETNZ threw their matches against Oracle to keep oracle in the dark about the true speed difference. In AC34 maybe they let the cat out of the bag to early about Foiling cats.  

I wonder if GD will be more secretive in this cup because as the defender they don’t have to go through a challenger series so in effect have more time up their sleeve. 
 

With this logic maybe B2 will be kept dry 

B2 will need to be thoroughly tested prior to the match to iron out any bugs, structural issues and be developed right up to the match. The later you leave that, the more risk you buy yourself.

ETNZ are very good at hiding things in plain sight.

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On 10/11/2020 at 12:45 AM, Ex-yachtie said:

I reckon they went for a sail, crashed it, and their comms people don’t work weekends. 

Well unless the comms people don't work Mondays either that theory looks blown

The logical conclusion is that the breakage is somewhat more serious, hence the info blackout whilst they figure out how bad exactly. So I go back to my earlier question as to whether they will bring forward B2. Of course that might not be possible either if the console was one of the bits of kit that would be cross-decked, though that seems unlikely

Worth also noting that bits such as this that might not be obvious give all boats a vulnerability if this sort of accident happens in the real racing

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Given that both the AC75 and the F50 are:

  • Optimized for sailing in protected waters (less rugged than the offshore boats)
  • Capable of speeds greater than YPE, the boat that held the outright record from October, 1993 to November, 2004

There is obvious crew risk anytime one of these boat tries out the transition from being a flying boat to being a submarine.  The AC75s  do seem to well laid out to provide more protection to the crew than the cats, but this "protection" does not prevent someone from "flying forward in the crew area" until they impact something.   I am hoping this aspect of crew safety has been considered and addressed to the extent practical (similar to the change from hard dashboards to softer dashboards in cars decades ago).

There is also obvious risk to the boats.  Designing them to be rugged enough to survive any crash unharmed would make them too heavy.

Although we spectators enjoy watching these boats at full speed, we should be mindful that is comes at a cost (risk of crew injury). 

Teams also need to be mindful of how fast their dream of winning could fade away without pretty solid plans for addressing boat damage. 

I know that crew risk and boat damage risk are not new at all.  However, I have been through enough crashes in my "low end" foiler (UFO) such that it is scary to consider how bad things could turn in a crash with speeds 3 to 4 times faster.   

I am very thankful that we are currently discussing what appears to be only limited boat damage.  Just as I was thankful when Paul Larson survived a demonstration of VSR1 "vertical instability" at over 50 knots.    

Hopefully there will be very few similar events for the rest of this round.  Each event of this type is a "shot on goal" where the outcome could be much worse. 

This post is not intended to a slam on the AC75, it really is intended to be reflection on the fortunate outcome of the recent event.

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1 hour ago, rh3000 said:

That is Tamaki Drive and Bastion Point in the background, making this a picture of the first capsize.

True indeed, and in fact written in small print below the pic where i took it :

https://voilesetvoiliers.ouest-france.fr/regate/coupe-de-l-america/america-s-cup-coup-dur-pour-le-defender-team-new-zealand-victime-d-un-deuxieme-chavirage-br-05486f0a-0bb4-11eb-b5c2-c988ecdde765

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4 hours ago, P Flados said:

This post is not intended to a slam on the AC75, it really is intended to be reflection on the fortunate outcome of the recent event.

I agree with the points you made; but counter with the fact that all high level sport has an inherent risk of serious injury.

Rugby Players risk their necks in scrums, ice hockey players have literally had their throats cut by skates, and pro wrestlers have died in the ring.

To steal a phrase from Jim Ross "This ain't ballet". When you are pushing the limits of skill and technology, you can only hope for best and prepare for the worst. 

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1 hour ago, TimmyHate said:

I agree with the points you made; but counter with the fact that all high level sport has an inherent risk of serious injury.

Rugby Players risk their necks in scrums, ice hockey players have literally had their throats cut by skates, and pro wrestlers have died in the ring.

To steal a phrase from Jim Ross "This ain't ballet". When you are pushing the limits of skill and technology, you can only hope for best and prepare for the worst. 

I agree.  Again, the one tragic event in San Fran is a reminder that things can go very wrong in fast sailing.  Hopefully the AC will not have to deal with a similar event again any time soon (or ever).

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2 hours ago, Filthy Phill said:

Because if we leave it to the pakeha we get names like .....North Island  and South Island.  Give me a maori name.....way more interesting.

Yep. Definitely should have stuck with New Ulster, New Munster and New Leinster. :D

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2 hours ago, Filthy Phill said:

Because if we leave it to the pakeha we get names like .....North Island  and South Island.  Give me a maori name.....way more interesting.

ohh yehh really great practical ones

Taumatawhakatangihangakōauauotamateapōkaiwhenuakitānatahu

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Ok, go ahead. 

Someone as linguistically challenged as myself would make a mess of the easy local names. 

I would put the chances of a decent pronunciation of that one at no more than 0.1% of all that would even attempt it.  

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3 hours ago, phill_nz said:

ohh yehh really great practical ones

Taumatawhakatangihangakōauauotamateapōkaiwhenuakitānatahu

Hmmmm. I bet that hasn't been sanctioned by, Te Taura Whiri.

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There is some (planned) sailing on elsewhere this week so maybe they took a chance to see what the boat could do knowing it's time is coming to an end and worst case it could be repaired this week - or a new boat readied  ?

 

As far as a name ? Winner, would do it for me.

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10 minutes ago, Flippin Out said:

Fuck me, I can't believe that there is even any discussion about what ETNZ B2 name will be............................. I've already had it confirmed to me that it's called Te Karoro

Black-Backed-Gull.jpg

Hmm those foils look anhedral to me.

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Crikey those cunning Kiwis have installed a revolutionary twin skinned wing on B2.

The contenders have been in a flap regarding this technological leap and lodged an urgent appeal with the AC arbitration committee but insiders reckon that their protest won’t fly.

1B67B4B1-2C4C-46D0-BB0B-8ADD23170FAE.jpeg.ee759673471c9f779358aa7f7fdfd0f3.jpeg

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15 hours ago, barfy said:

Everyone will be fine if they are smiley emojoing about it.

Agree, which is good news whoever you support.

But the complete absence of news and absence of any sign of the boat do indicate that the damage was significant. Only things I can think of were that either the internals of the steering console have been damaged and they don't have a spare or the impact was such as to damage where the pedestal attaches to the hull so the composite needs re-working.

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tau-mata-whaka-tangi-hanga-koa-ua-uo-tama-tea-turi-puka-kapi-ki-maunga-horo-nuku-pok-ai-when-uaki-tana-tahu.

 

it's easier when broken down for word by word

 

i texted for an ambulance but the patient died before it arrived

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1 hour ago, Sea Breeze 74 said:

I'm going to see how the chick tries to pronounce this when giving directions on the maps app. She butchers even the simplest maori place names so I'm expecting an iOS meltdown.

There is one thing worse than an Aussie trying to speak, Maori (apart from pakeha, Mainlanders) and that's a Kiwi trying to speak Australian languages, especially English.

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1 hour ago, phill_nz said:

tau-mata-whaka-tangi-hanga-koa-ua-uo-tama-tea-turi-puka-kapi-ki-maunga-horo-nuku-pok-ai-when-uaki-tana-tahu.

 

it's easier when broken down for word by word

 

i texted for an ambulance but the patient died before it arrived

Probably died before you finished typing the txt!!

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On 10/13/2020 at 4:08 PM, P Flados said:

Someone as linguistically challenged as myself would make a mess of the easy local names. 

Here's a couple for you to practice:

Onehunga - 1 hung uh

Mangere - with a French accent Mon jeer

*actually humorous mispronunciations

9 hours ago, phill_nz said:

tau-mata-whaka-tangi-hanga-koa-ua-uo-tama-tea-turi-puka-kapi-ki-maunga-horo-nuku-pok-ai-when-uaki-tana-tahu. 

I get a bit lost in the middle but more like tau-mata-whaka-tangi-hanga-koauau-o-tamatea-turi-puka-kapiki-maunga-horo-nuku-pokai-whenua-kitana-tahu.

Tamatea is the Chief

Koauau his flute

Maunga the hill

 

 

 

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So 3-4 days of Kiwis determinedly not commenting on the outcome from the crash at the weekend and only posting about boat and place names.

Why the studious avoidance?

I appreciate that there has been no news (AFAIK) but that has never stopped speculation on this forum before.

 

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6 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

So 3-4 days of Kiwis determinedly not commenting on the outcome from the crash at the weekend and only posting about boat and place names.

Why the studious avoidance?

I appreciate that there has been no news (AFAIK) but that has never stopped speculation on this forum before.

 

No photos of the crash... did it actually happen?

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5 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

So 3-4 days of Kiwis determinedly not commenting on the outcome from the crash at the weekend and only posting about boat and place names.

Why the studious avoidance?

I appreciate that there has been no news (AFAIK) but that has never stopped speculation on this forum before.

 

Because there’s nothing to see or talk about. They capsized. They’ve done it before and they’ll do it again. No big deal. The only way to know where the limit is, is to actually find it. They’ve found it. Lessons learned for B2.

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Just now, Forourselves said:

Because there’s nothing to see or talk about. They capsized. They’ve done it before and they’ll do it again. No big deal. The only way to know where the limit is, is to actually find it. They’ve found it. Lessons learned for B2.

Bollocks. If that had happened to any of the challengers the Kiwis would be talking about it for weeks.

And how much damage? How long to repair? Will they just move to B2?

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1 minute ago, enigmatically2 said:

Bollocks. If that had happened to any of the challengers the Kiwis would be talking about it for weeks.

And how much damage? How long to repair? Will they just move to B2?

Bollocks. AM did it and there was crickets.

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1 hour ago, enigmatically2 said:

Why the studious avoidance?

Well I've been AFK.

The twitter pic shows they went fucking deep down the mine which fits the only description we've had.

Absent any other footage/rumors its hard to really comment.

Why there is no other footage/rumors I got no idea but its pretty disappointing.

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7 hours ago, hoom said:

Well I've been AFK.

The twitter pic shows they went fucking deep down the mine which fits the only description we've had.

Absent any other footage/rumors its hard to really comment.

Why there is no other footage/rumors I got no idea but its pretty disappointing.

There's probably a bit to learn from stuffing a 75ft bot down the mine, and they're keeping it to themselves.

Hopefully it'll come out one day.  If not we can watch the challenger demonstrate during the finals.

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9 hours ago, enigmatically2 said:

So 3-4 days of Kiwis determinedly not commenting on the outcome from the crash at the weekend and only posting about boat and place names.

Why the studious avoidance?

I appreciate that there has been no news (AFAIK) but that has never stopped speculation on this forum before.

 

You seem quite obsessed with what "Kiwi fans" do or don't do at any given moment. It's like the sad lonely neighbor next door always watching over the fence. The complaints are really just a cry for help and inclusion.

So come on in man, the water's fine!  Our borders being closed atm doesn't mean you are not allowed to join us in spirit and support of ETNZ.

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4 hours ago, rh3000 said:

You seem quite obsessed with what "Kiwi fans" do or don't do at any given moment. It's like the sad lonely neighbor next door always watching over the fence. The complaints are really just a cry for help and inclusion.

So come on in man, the water's fine!  Our borders being closed atm doesn't mean you are not allowed to join us in spirit and support of ETNZ.

Yeah, NZ remains just another Brit colony, however, after having wiped out the natives, more or less, no ?

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17 minutes ago, yl75 said:

Yeah, NZ remains just another Brit colony, however, after having wiped out the natives, more or less, no ?

What ever ignorance keeps you away... please continue to bask in it...

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46 minutes ago, rh3000 said:

What ever ignorance keeps you away... please continue to bask in it...

You mean wikipedia is wrong, regarding New Zealand ?

Quote

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand

And I know the maoris arrived quite late in NZ, but still there before.., no ?

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6 hours ago, Ex-yachtie said:

There's probably a bit to learn from stuffing a 75ft bot down the mine, and they're keeping it to themselves.

Hopefully it'll come out one day.  If not we can watch the challenger demonstrate during the finals.

There may be a reason why the AM B2 bow looks like a dreadnaught.  When these boats dive nose first during an AC race, it will be at full race speed and violent.  I assume AM hopes to pop out of it.

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44 minutes ago, yl75 said:

You mean wikipedia is wrong, regarding New Zealand ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand

And I know the maoris arrived quite late in NZ, but still there before.., no ?

As predicted your ignorance is evident in both attemps to disprove it

a) that you think there is no more to this nation than those that came to colonise it over 200 years ago

b) in your attempt at using the indigenous people of this nation as nothing more than a punch line, you couldn't even get their name right.

Cleary if your insights are just going to be copy and pasted from Wikipedia yout aren't going to get very far. 

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6 hours ago, Ex-yachtie said:

There's probably a bit to learn from stuffing a 75ft bot down the mine, and they're keeping it to themselves.

Hopefully it'll come out one day.  If not we can watch the challenger demonstrate during the finals.

The only way the bow went in big time was because the rudder foil let go.

I'm not convinced that they would be wanting to advertise that anytime soon...

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2 hours ago, The_Alchemist said:

Selective memory.  AM was off sailing again in about 5-10 minutes.  

But they didn’t say a word afterward did they. Not for a couple of days. Besides as noted, the conditions exceeded that of race conditions, so maybe they were done for the day anyway. 

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6 hours ago, The_Alchemist said:

There may be a reason why the AM B2 bow looks like a dreadnaught.  When these boats dive nose first during an AC race, it will be at full race speed and violent.  I assume AM hopes to pop out of it.

Yeah, but we’ve seen that story play out before. 

DBD19316-D8FE-43B9-B0BF-FDBE29F1B2D1.jpeg

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6 hours ago, NZL3481 said:

The only way the bow went in big time was because the rudder foil let go.

I'm not convinced that they would be wanting to advertise that anytime soon...

And yet it that’s the only way it can happen, there’s no danger in advertising the fact, is there?

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