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On 11/3/2020 at 8:28 AM, kiwi39 said:

Anyone else getting itchy about the fact that ETNZ B2 isn't out of the shed yet ??

 

 

Official launch date is the 19th November. It may splash a week before that but, don't get your hopes up too much. The AC will be won with foil design and sail control. The percentile gains regarding hull and deck shapes will perhaps be, 11% of the equation. Sure, the hull and deck will be slippery and optimised for jumping out of the water but, functional industrial design will be focused on the efficiency of the soft squidgy carbon based units controlling the craft too. 

It will look very cool and rightly so. Expect to see graphical design the like only a strong dose of LSD could unravel and decode. 

Emirates Team New Zealand always come out of the shed with a little something to intimidate the competition and expose them for foolish oversight of loopholes in the rule.

If the rumours are true, then expect to be shocked. 

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It's pissing down outside and yes, we are back to Level 3. To all those moaning and bitching about it and calling the PM childish names, get a grip, we are the luckiest people in the world right

Yes, quite light but I didn't see all the afternoon's sailing, can only comment on later in the day, when Britannia 2 was running a #1 jib and foiling around no problem. They look quite quick at times

They towed out around 11am and the breeze was light and puffy to start with. Foiled down the Channel and headed out to the Bays. The breeze started to build around midday and they got some long runs i

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1 hour ago, Kate short for Bob said:

WTF has that got to do with ETNZ and the America's Cup?

Or are you suggesting Grant Dalton can fix it?

What does it have to do with the America’s Cup? Covid 19 Government response has been crucial to this America’s Cup, and still is! It has effected events, schedules and teams. The US response has been non existent and has now deteriorated into a “if we don’t say the words Covid 19 it won’t exist” the idiot in the White House has affected the AC and by association, the Defender and needs to go.

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9 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

What does it have to do with the America’s Cup? Covid 19 Government response has been crucial to this America’s Cup, and still is! It has effected events, schedules and teams. The US response has been non existent and has now deteriorated into a “if we don’t say the words Covid 19 it won’t exist” the idiot in the White House has affected the AC and by association, the Defender and needs to go.

Then stick it in Corona Anarchy or Political Anarchy.  Or if you must post this stuff in the AC forum put it in the one discussing the venue!  If you think that the President of the USA has any influence on the pandemic management in NZ then you are delusional.  But obviously you belong to the crowd that believe all problems can be linked back to one person who either is a manifestation of God or the Devil.  Just like some people do with Grant Dalton.  Now that I've got back to ETNZ one of GD's key skills is his ability to run diversions i.e. all the attention and angst gets focussed on him (he doesn't really give a shit) meanwhile the team is focussed on the real stuff that wins or defends America's Cups.

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I don't know if this rumour is correct or not and I've tried to corroborate it but.....

My boating neighbour is adamant that his mate (yeah yeah friend of a friend) saw ETNZ testing something off Bream Bay towards the Hen and Chicks.  Is Te Kahu still in the shed?

As many others have posted ETNZ for the last two campaigns have been really good at hiding things in plain sight.

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2 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Then stick it in Corona Anarchy or Political Anarchy.  Or if you must post this stuff in the AC forum put it in the one discussing the venue!  If you think that the President of the USA has any influence on the pandemic management in NZ then you are delusional.  But obviously you belong to the crowd that believe all problems can be linked back to one person who either is a manifestation of God or the Devil.  Just like some people do with Grant Dalton.  Now that I've got back to ETNZ one of GD's key skills is his ability to run diversions i.e. all the attention and angst gets focussed on him (he doesn't really give a shit) meanwhile the team is focussed on the real stuff that wins or defends America's Cups.

WTF does God or the Devil have to do with the AC or ETNZ? Take it to Religious Anarchy or somewhere else...

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2 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

My boating neighbour is adamant that his mate (yeah yeah friend of a friend) saw ETNZ testing something off Bream Bay towards the Hen and Chicks.  Is Te Kahu still in the shed?

Well Pete and Blair have been up that way sailing their 49er out to the Poor Knights so anything is possible.

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2 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

I don't know if this rumour is correct or not and I've tried to corroborate it but.....

My boating neighbour is adamant that his mate (yeah yeah friend of a friend) saw ETNZ testing something off Bream Bay towards the Hen and Chicks.  Is Te Kahu still in the shed?

As many others have posted ETNZ for the last two campaigns have been really good at hiding things in plain sight.

If true iM sure ETNZ will be thrilled it’s now on here 

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Just now, Tommy22 said:

If true iM sure ETNZ will be thrilled it’s now on here 

Hardly worry them.  Especially when those that allegedly saw them are a bit technically challenged when using phone cameras/video.

It was described to me as "fuck they go fast"!  Intensive questioning did not elicit much more than that.

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3 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Hardly worry them.  Especially when those that allegedly saw them are a bit technically challenged when using phone cameras/video.

It was described to me as "fuck they go fast"!  Intensive questioning did not elicit much more than that.

Could be some sailgp testing perhaps?

Edit: actually not that far from shore, 1m+ swell running all week

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3 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

I don't know if this rumour is correct or not and I've tried to corroborate it but.....

My boating neighbour is adamant that his mate (yeah yeah friend of a friend) saw ETNZ testing something off Bream Bay towards the Hen and Chicks.  Is Te Kahu still in the shed?

As many others have posted ETNZ for the last two campaigns have been really good at hiding things in plain sight.

I heard from an imaginary friend that ETNZ is going for full-out kite flying, like the Jeezus Lizard they will barely ever touch the water! :D 
 

Instead of Te Kahu (‘The Hawk’) it will be christened with the Maori name for ‘The Albatross’! 

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4 minutes ago, NSP said:

INEOS were the voice of reason in the course B & C debate, so not sure why anyone thinks they are at fault or somehow upset by the courses being reinstated.

What makes you say that? I’m not saying I disagree with you, but I haven’t seen anything specifically from them. 

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1 hour ago, NSP said:

INEOS were the voice of reason in the course B & C debate, so not sure why anyone thinks they are at fault or somehow upset by the courses being reinstated.

Correct!! The only ones likely to be upset are the CoR/LRPP

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Oh no, don't take it that I connected Ineos to the course B and C debacle. I just cannot stand Ineos in any way, shape or form and take opportunity, where possible to show as much. 

Fuck you Sir Benis. 

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2 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

Link?

https://emirates-team-new-zealand.americascup.com/en/news/480_PORTS-OF-AUCKLAND-CLEARS-THE-WAY-FOR-AMERICAS-CUP-SPECTACLE-TO-RETURN.html

So LR have shot themselves in the foot.

Now they either say, "Oh sorry, we just remembered we do remember the February agreement, that we did sign, which means the protocol needs to be changed" even though the Arbitration Panel ruled there was no breach of Protocol, or they continue with the story that they didn't know, and didn't agree in February, which seemingly means given ETNZ didn't breach the protocol, the Port giving the green light essentially means they go back to the status quo, and the original protocol they signed with the Defender. Either way, those courses are back in play.

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Looks like we're seeing alliances being forged between Challengers. AM seem to be squarely in the camp of LR, meaning they may become CoR should LR win. Ineos are an unknown, they were a dissenter in the Arbitration case, so maybe they've adopted the "Lone Wolf" approach ETNZ employed in Bermuda.

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34 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

maybe they've adopted the "Lone Wolf" approach ETNZ employed in Bermuda.

Does it look like the ‘Lone Wolf’ approach won GD any friends?

Hard to see why, despite the spin about this having been resolved, that any Challs will take the offer. They could be happy with the current ruling, as is their right under the governing Prot. 

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4 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Does it look like the ‘Lone Wolf’ approach won GD any friends?

Yeah right, friends until they put a knife in your back when you least expect it.

Ainslie should be flattered. Hutchinson and Barker as well as LR obviously see the Ineos team as a common enemy. Maybe AM have conceded they are unable to beat LR and/ or ETNZ this time being a first time team, so they've decided to get behind LR and become CoR next to strengthen their chances in the next cycle.

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7 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Yeah right, friends until they put a knife in your back when you least expect it.

When has GD ever made friends, with anybody? ‘Lone Wolf’ is an apt but not an admirable adjective.. 

The rest of your post is emotional bullshit. 
 

Like with the press release about the ‘vindication’ of ACE’s accounting, and of the prior wind limits ‘argy bargy’, both aimed at LR, this one is flawed. The issue has not been resolved despite the (yes, admirable) change by the Ports of Auckland. Nothing in it alters the Challs’ preferences. 

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6 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

When has GD ever made friends, with anybody? ‘Lone Wolf’ is an apt but not an admirable  adjective.. 

The rest of your post is emotional bullshit. 

They worked with LR for two cycles. I think in the world of the Americas Cup, that constitutes "Friends"

Hahaha when its you its called "Fun"

When its me its emotional Bullshit lol

 

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2 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

When its me its emotional Bullshit lol

Logically, why would LR or anyone else agree to (re) introduce courses B&C, after they were already excluded? Do you honestly believe a big wet kiss from GD can seal it? 

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4 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Logically, why would LR or anyone else agree to (re) introduce courses B&C, after they were already excluded? Do you honestly believe a big wet kiss from GD can seal it? 

The courses were NEVER excluded. Remember? LR NEVER agreed to the change! The protocol was NEVER breached (as ruled by the AP) or amended by the teams, therefor, the protocol and the courses remain the same as they originally were agreed.

Unless of course the Challengers want to now try and get that protocol thrown out because they regret signing it?

 

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2 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

The courses were NEVER excluded.

The AP decision excluded them and so that’s the way it stands unless they issue a new ruling - one that will require unanimous constant by all competitors.

Below the Deed of Gift lies the Mutually consented Protocol in order of precedence. Not any late-stage Harbormaster guy.. 

Look, I hope the courses do get reinstated, in a way that does not advantage anyone practice-time-wise. It’s just hard to see the Challs agreeing the change to re-include them, since they have no motivation whatsoever to do so. 

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Just now, Stingray~ said:

The AP decision excluded them and so that’s the way it stands unless they issue a new ruling - one that will require unanimous constant by all competitors.

Based on the Ports decision regarding the restriction. Which is now irrelevant.

Below the Deed of Gift lies the Mutually consented Protocol in order of precedence. Not any late-stage Harbormaster guy.. 

Or the Ports of Auckland

Look, I hope the courses do get reinstated, in a way that does not advantage anyone practice-time-wise. It’s just hard to see the Challs agreeing the change to re-include them, since they have no motivation whatsoever to do so. 

They don't need to, the Ports have declared the courses for use, so its game over.

 

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3 hours ago, Ex-yachtie said:

What makes you say that? I’m not saying I disagree with you, but I haven’t seen anything specifically from them. 

This was the dissenting opinion by the third member of the Arb.Panel, Graham McKenzie, in which he preferred the Ineos proposal:

"My preferred interpretation is to largely accept point 8 of the Ineos Team UK Response (of 16 October) to the Regatta Director Response. They submit as an OR alternative interpretation the Panel could rule that courses B and C may be retained for possible use for the CSS Final and Match by banning the use of those areas by Competitors during the CSS
round robins and semi-final. I prefer this interpretation whereby any Competitors not racing during the period courses B and C are not available due to the Harbour Master local law compliance permit conditions, they would be prohibited from using courses B and C. This would include the Defender for such applicable period. The Regatta Director would still be expected to allocate to such Competitors the use of other courses including those being raced upon."

 

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30 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Based on the Ports decision regarding the restriction. Which is now irrelevant.

This is retroactive, the Arb Panel decision preceded it. Any new agreement to change courses, by the AP’s ruling, requires unanimous consent. 

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40 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

This is retroactive, the Arb Panel decision preceded it. Any new agreement to change courses, by the AP’s ruling, requires unanimous consent. 

The courses haven't been changed. The protocol precedes the AP ruling. The courses are available, therefor the AP ruling as RG mentioned, is redundant. The teams signed the protocol, which has not been amended or breached.

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1 hour ago, Forourselves said:

The courses haven't been changed. The protocol precedes the AP ruling. The courses are available, therefor the AP ruling as RG mentioned, is redundant. The teams signed the protocol, which has not been amended or breached.

Apologies if this has been previously posted:  have the course details (number and length of legs, planned wind directions etc) been made available?

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2 hours ago, mikenz2 said:

Back to boats... slightly... ETNZ seem to be planning for B2 to be a lot faster ;-)

Chase 1 has just been repowered with 4 x 450 Mercury Racing engines

 

P1160249.thumb.JPG.398eecad2d1cf4c786260f2b97eb5cb0.JPG

:) Did they have 4x300's before? So a 50% increase in power...I can live with that.

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8 hours ago, Salty Seacock said:

Oh no, don't take it that I connected Ineos to the course B and C debacle. I just cannot stand Ineos in any way, shape or form and take opportunity, where possible to show as much. 

Fuck you Sir Benis. 

 

I've never met a bad, strange, or stupid kiwi......not one.......ever...........and with you safely under your rock on the other side of the world I get to keep my record.

Its just a game.

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It is all really simple, do not confuse public posturing with who really makes the decision.  Go and read the actual finding's of the AP :

http://noticeboard.acofficials.org/arbitration-panel  

 

There was a dispute about the use of courses B & C.  All of the challengers requested that courses B & C be removed from the races because not everyone has equal access to those courses.  The AP sided with the challengers and removed B & C from the event.  

https://docs.google.com/a/acofficials.org/viewer?a=v&pid=sites&srcid=YWNvZmZpY2lhbHMub3JnfGFjMzYtb2ZmaWNpYWwtbm90aWNlYm9hcmR8Z3g6Mjc5N2U4ZDlhYTRmNGRhMg

So the AC is now only allowed to use courses A, D, E1 E2 for the events.  

 

ETNZ is able to get the harbor master to remove some of his prior restrictions.  They then have to go to the AP to get course B & C reinstated for the events.  None of the challengers support the changes to the courses so the AP rejects the request.

 https://docs.google.com/a/acofficials.org/viewer?a=v&pid=sites&srcid=YWNvZmZpY2lhbHMub3JnfGFjMzYtb2ZmaWNpYWwtbm90aWNlYm9hcmR8Z3g6NzhhZTUzNTAyYWFhZTEwZg

So, the AC is still only allowed to use courses A, D, E1 E2 for the events.  

Obviously, the challengers are not in favor of changing back to the original courses and without their consent, it doesn't matter what ETNZ wants to do.

 

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7 hours ago, Chris UK said:

 

I've never met a bad, strange, or stupid kiwi......not one.......ever...........and with you safely under your rock on the other side of the world I get to keep my record.

Its just a game.

Our collective apologies for this particular piece of shit.

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A recent video of LR showed an AM chase boat speed up from behind and to windward, draw exactly parallel to LR for about 10 secs apparently to pace her, then drop back behind again. An AIS chart from of the AM chase boat might have been fun to see. 

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2 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

A recent video of LR showed an AM chase boat speed up from behind and to windward, draw exactly parallel to LR for about 10 secs apparently to pace her, then drop back behind again. An AIS chart from of the AM chase boat might have been fun to see. 

Here is what they did today :

613299784_ScreenShot2020-11-04at6_35_23PM.thumb.jpg.76fbd95ea436fbea13d8c7a7a7472def.jpg

185849848_MarineTrafficSpeedlegend.jpg.c3214f847e4414db844bf4a1a60cd1bd.jpg

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20 hours ago, mikenz2 said:

Back to boats... slightly... ETNZ seem to be planning for B2 to be a lot faster ;-)

Chase 1 has just been repowered with 4 x 450 Mercury Racing engines

P1160252.thumb.JPG.5538ade0da604bdb62f60179a1850fe2.JPG

P1160249.thumb.JPG.398eecad2d1cf4c786260f2b97eb5cb0.JPG

If they added a prop or two, maybe they wouldn't need so many. :ph34r:

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15 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

^ Maybe that AP notice preceded the new availability of B&C? 

Yes. ETNZ filed their application ACP36/14 cited by The_Alchemist for mediation on the 31st of October before the PoA announced they will "facilitate the use of the inner harbour races courses (B and C) for all racing for the 36th America’s Cup event." on 4th November.

Which now means the Arbitration Panel decision paragraph a) comes into play:

a) If any part of the course area of the CSS and the Match (e.g. Courses B and/or C) are not accessible with no restriction at any time in accordance with Art. 3.4 of the Protocol, then that part of the course area will be used neither for the CSS nor for the Match.

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Mayo&Calder keep popping up in these Arbitration Panel considerations :(. ACAP36/09 was a dispute mediation initiated by LR/CoR against ETNZ over an outstanding NZ$875k (+GST) for "CoR36 Venue Consideration"(?). ETNZ countered that a second application involved the (same) "payment from CoR to Mayo & Calder Limited and in turn ACE"...

Details of Mayo&Calder's incompetence and dodgy dealings are slowly but inexorably filtering out...

image.png.d4f56b444f7ff70fa4fd584b354b371a.png

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15 hours ago, Varan said:

If they added a prop or two, maybe they wouldn't need so many. :ph34r:

No they are actually miniaturised Hamilton hydro jets.  Props are old technology in this Cup.  Bit like spinnakers. 

I fully expect the analysts on here to start producing technical drawings showing the cant, AOA's, cavitation break points etc of these jets.  

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23 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

No they are actually miniaturised Hamilton hydro jets.  Props are old technology in this Cup.  Bit like spinnakers. 

I fully expect the analysts on here to start producing technical drawings showing the cant, AOA's, cavitation break points etc of these jets.  

Got to have something to do and speculate on??  to try to stop the shit fights!

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9 hours ago, Puntone said:

and no outboard motor safety circuit breaker for the wrist ( around 30 US$ ) Just crazy

 

 

All power boats in the US come with that safety lanyard that you need to connect to your wrist.  They were just too lazy to use it and almost got bit by the circle of death.

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29 minutes ago, mikenz2 said:

For those stalking ETNZ on the webcam and wondering what the long thin thing was on the crane, my best guess is it's a strongback/lifting beam for load testing without the mast fitted?
 

1364574530_P1160293(2).thumb.JPG.bbeb081f3db348a0ff85fe31fa16dd55.JPG

Anyone got a list of links to ETNZ stalking webcams ?? 

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1 minute ago, kiwi39 said:

Anyone got a list of links to ETNZ stalking webcams ?? 

Team NZ, Ineos, NYYC:
https://www.takeabreak.co.nz/webcams/16/auckland_viaduct_harbour_webcam

Ineos, NYYC (top left):
https://www.takeabreak.co.nz/webcams/209/auckland_city_webcam

All teams on their way in/out:
https://www.takeabreak.co.nz/webcams/61/auckland_queens_wharf_webcam

All teams in the inner gulf: 
https://oceanswims.nz/webcam (my webcam)

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2 hours ago, mikenz2 said:

Just wandered past, still no props :D

The props will tell us how fast they’re planning to go. We usually recommend surface piercing props with those engines if 60+ knots is a regular thing. 
 

Edit: looking at those pictures again, looks like that’s what they’re setting up for. That thing is going to MOVE!

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4 hours ago, mikenz2 said:

Lovely!  Thanks, I think mikenz2. There go a few more hours every day tracking performances!

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6 hours ago, Monkey said:

The props will tell us how fast they’re planning to go. We usually recommend surface piercing props with those engines if 60+ knots is a regular thing. 
 

Edit: looking at those pictures again, looks like that’s what they’re setting up for. That thing is going to MOVE!

So ... no idea about this stuff -- tell me why 60+ knots requires surface piercing props ? 

 

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7 hours ago, kiwi39 said:

So ... no idea about this stuff -- tell me why 60+ knots requires surface piercing props ? 

 

Ironically, it sort of takes us back to the foil argument that’s been beaten to death already. It causes the prop to ventilate instead of cavitate at high speed, so less loss of thrust. It also allows a larger prop with a deeper pitch, so more thrust at the high end. Then there’s also less of the gearcase getting dragged through the water, so lower drag. There’s a lot more sciencey witchcraft going on, but those are the basics. Oh, and they look cool!

Edit:  And it’s not required, it just works better if speed is the goal. 

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Next step is a hovering boat I Hope.
With the foiling T foil replaced by sheer a sword and a hovering boat,
Can be done.
hovercraft.PNG.e0dd12f4f26d421abd92de2243ff5602.PNG

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Flattest bottom is the winner in this cup is my best educated guess.


 

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