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6 minutes ago, MrBump said:

well there were a lot of similarities between B1 and the alleged S&S mould photos that circulated a while back. Clearly AM1 was just a testing platform 

Firstly apologies for quoting myself but found the photo

64035C1D-8BF2-4DCE-8DAE-A34CB273B78E.jpeg

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It's pissing down outside and yes, we are back to Level 3. To all those moaning and bitching about it and calling the PM childish names, get a grip, we are the luckiest people in the world right

After many hours of consideration, a lot of in-depth research on the SA technical threads, extensive computational modelling and a few quick & dirty minutes in Photoshop, I have produced this anal

Posted Images

5 minutes ago, SiC said:

I think the flare at the bow is to avoid going down the mine after a nosedive and to provide aero lift.  The skeg/ keel end plates to the water and provides for a low wetted surface when transitioning to foiling/ touch downs.  The hull volume, and therefore aero drag, is small because its heading towards being a surfboard with a keel. Aero over the topside looks slick with crew pods and a low mainsail for lowering COE.  The back is ugly based on the pics we have seen - maybe it will look better in the water?

Overall I quite like the shape of the front 3/4 of the boat so far.

What don’t you like about the last 1/4 ?

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1 hour ago, DayTripper said:

I'm not sure about that. I'd like it to be able to cross a few bows.

maroro

1. (noun) flying fish, Cypselurus lineatus.

He maroro kokoti ihu waka (W 1971:184). / A flying fish that cuts across the canoe prow (a whakataukī for someone who crossed the path of a war party and was killed to ward off bad luck).

if thats the ref .. maroro is just the flying fish part of that ..

the shape reminds me of a flying fish .. hence maroro

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6 hours ago, Forourselves said:

And that  afolks, is the next Cup winner.

Early days for sure but I'm agreeing with you. An interesting blend of design concepts that have already been floated, all flowing into a finished boat that suggests power, purpose and progress.

Didn't know what the design and build team had in store for us. That plus new surprises yet to be revealed.

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7 minutes ago, Southern Cross said:

What don’t you like about the last 1/4 ?

It looks like a big box - wider than I would have thought was needed.  I like the way Amway's arse tapers away in an aesthetically pleasing manner.  As I said tho, limited pics thus far, Im hoping it looks different on the water.

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9 minutes ago, trt131 said:

I think it was Ben Lexan that said of another designer's boat "Jesus, even a turd tapers at the end"

Talking of turds ... two in a single line ... it’s not Ben LEXCEN, it was Ted Turner telling Britton Chance what was wrong with Mariner

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1 hour ago, Sailbydate said:

Just as well there's still what appears to be a bustle of sorts, through the bottom, mid sections. That run aft looks flatter than a millpond.

I'm actually now embarrassed that I scoffed so hard at Rita1's looks. Sorry guys. I apologise. 

If this had been launched as INEOS B2, I think I may have understood it a little more.

Right now, I'm struggling.

So you should be embarrassed SD..!  Here mate eat some of this...! :D

 

humble-pie.jpg

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8 minutes ago, trt131 said:

I think it was Ben Lexan that said of another designer's boat "Jesus, even a turd tapers at the end"

No I don’t think it was Ben Lexcen , my memory is that Ted Turner quoted the words to designer Britton Chance ~ about Mariner’s bustle geometry.

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Spare a thought for Prada and American Magic right now..! Nick Holroyd getting a lot of smiles and taps on the back today.! When Ben and Grant Simmer said to Holroyd "Sure you want to sign off on this mate?"  This is exactly why Ineos hired Nick once a Kiwi always a Kiwi.! :D

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7 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

Nick Holroyd getting a lot of smiles and taps on the back today.!

Agreed. The Jedi of ETNZ, no surprise Holroyd’s pupil Bernasconi followed in the same direction with the underhull. 

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3 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

It was a f’king joke, since MBIE paid for the design. As to your BLM obsession, f’k off for that idiocy too! 
 

The subject of sponsors came up.

Since we're correcting the record, this Kiwi got the irony. A bit blatant but a nice swipe.

As for the work on the Rule, the Defender is paying its half of the tab. MBIE has dug its heels in on paying for the other half!

 

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47 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

Topside aero with uninterupted flow from stem to stern. Flat stern sections for complete flying wing profile.

Soft edge bustle with little fin keel to aid lift off and leeway.

Flared bow for good bump and lift off.

The inner beauty? I hope you're right, HR.

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13 minutes ago, Southern Cross said:

No I don’t think it was Ben Lexcen , my memory is that Ted Turner quoted the words to designer Britton Chance ~ about Mariner’s bustle geometry.

Good to see you back, SouthernX.

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Just now, Sailbydate said:

The inner beauty?

The hump in the stern profile is not that aesthetically pleasing, but it should hide the crew - reducing windage. Ineos with their shallow hull can't hide their crew. Trade offs I guess.

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13 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Agreed. The Jedi of ETNZ, no surprise Holroyd’s pupil Bernasconi followed in the same direction with the underhull. 

Just a pity Holroyd couldn't bring himself to think outside the box in Bermuda, maybe they'd have done better than they did.

At least in Bermuda he was "Happy to be on a team with a lot of go forward and progressing really quickly"

 

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3 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Just a pity Holroyd couldn't bring himself to think outside the box

‘outside the box’ as in ‘cheating the rules’ by implementing an actual Herbie, so that sailors didn’t have to think for themselves? 
 

Credit to Holroyd for that. Team Japan vs Artemis in big air was the best racing in Bermuda, by far! Nick had great foils for it, they damn nearly won that matchup. 

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5 hours ago, Mozzy Sails said:

That is one wide square arse.

It's like a cut and shut between INEOS B1 and B2

The question is , do INEOS have a large enough paper bag? Because they'll need it whilst fucking this thing!

IMG-20201118-WA0005.thumb.jpg.f80f0d455eb143a6959dab724e8548cd.jpg

Toyota Gazoo Racing TS050 Hybrid LMP1 WEC Season 2018 3D Model

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In terms of foils, surely ETNZ is not going to display their final set until it is too late for the other teams to replicate for the match? However, I would guess the Challengers will go to their final sets to give themselves the best chance of progressing. 

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2 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

‘outside the box’ as in ‘cheating the rules’ by implementing an actual Herbie, so that sailors didn’t have to think for themselves? 
 

Credit to Holroyd for that. Team Japan vs Artemis in big air was the best racing in Bermuda, by far! Nick had great foils for it, they damn nearly won that matchup. 

Mr Trump is that you?

Holroyd damn nearly won that, and he damn nearly won in San Francisco

Unfortunately there's no trophy for damn nearly winning.

 

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42 minutes ago, IllusionWanderer said:

ETNZ B2 has all the grace and beauty of a Mac26x

The MacGregor 26 was a genuine abomination. That comparison is a bit harsh. Besides NZ B2's looks are growing on me. I think she's going to look spectacular in full flight.

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I would love to get some expert opinion on how much of the new design is aero relevant more so than hydro? A lot of people still stuck on Hydro but once foiling Hydro isn't there other than foils, rudder and dropping off the foils now and then? Are the designers bending the rules as no tank or tunnel testing allowed so is this all done through simulation/software? 

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1 minute ago, Horn Rock said:

The MacGregor 26 was a genuine abomination. That comparison is a bit harsh. Besides NZ B2's looks are growing on me. I think she's going to look spectacular in full flight.

Funny that about looks. Now that Ineos aren't the only who is deemed ugly and ETNZ have entered the fray some people are starting to come around when it comes to appearance. Fast is always beautiful surely..? :D

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Just now, Kate short for Bob said:

I think ETNZ have rounded the edges more than INEOS.

Definitely bigger diameter curve in the shoulders. Soft edge in the bustle, which looks to be a tad narrower than the one on Ineos. More of a constant beam on the Kiwi bustle, and a vertical taper at the end, whereas the Ineos one tapers horizontally. So yeah, similar concept, but differing details.

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18 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Holroyd damn nearly won that, and he damn nearly won in San Francisco

True! 

Look, you are the one who’s always going on about who was ‘fastest’ in Bermuda.. Which two boats, in which race in the Semi’s, recorded the fastest AC50 speeds ever recorded? 
 

I’ll wait... 

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5 hours ago, JonRowe said:

 

Wireless from the chase boat using spark 5g, Pistol Pete has been practising using those first person drones*

 

*I am of course, taking the smeg.

Damn I should have tried out then!

 

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59 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

What's your problem Salty? Are you drying out?

Just felt like saying hello to you in my unique way. I haven't had a drink for three weeks. 

An exciting day over in town. A great day for Emirates Team New Zealand and kiwi sailing in general. 

We are a truly blessed nation. 

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16 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

True! 

Look, you are the one who’s always going on about who was ‘fastest’ in Bermuda.. Which two boats, in which race in the Semi’s, recorded the fastest AC50 speeds ever recorded? 
 

I’ll wait... 

Fast in the wrong direction doesn't necessarily beat slower in the right direction...

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43 minutes ago, D_Dog said:

In terms of foils, surely ETNZ is not going to display their final set until it is too late for the other teams to replicate for the match? However, I would guess the Challengers will go to their final sets to give themselves the best chance of progressing. 

According to the design of B2, it looks like you have that backwards.  They are waiting to copy the other designs.

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NZ B2 is a big surprise to just about everyone.  For a design team that prides themselves in being innovative and unique, there is nothing unique about B2 except for the enclosed crew areas.  Even that is a copy of the old AC45.  Every other element is seen on another AC75’s and some of those have even been discarded.

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32 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

True! 

Look, you are the one who’s always going on about who was ‘fastest’ in Bermuda.. Which two boats, in which race in the Semi’s, recorded the fastest AC50 speeds ever recorded? 
 

I’ll wait... 

Not this again... We ALL know who was fastest in Bermuda, and that was Emirates Team New Zealand. Quote your instantaneous top speeds all you like, but if another boat constantly kicks your ass around a track they're faster...ALWAYS.

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5 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

  Every other element is seen on another AC75’s and some of those have even been discarded.

Shit... shots fired...

If this is the case, then it puts paid to that nonsense about all the other teams not having enough time compared the ETNZ then eh? :D

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9 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

NZ B2 is a big surprise to just about everyone.  For a design team that prides themselves in being innovative and unique, there is nothing unique about B2 except for the enclosed crew areas.  Even that is a copy of the old AC45.  Every other element is seen on another AC75’s and some of those have even been discarded.

I bet there were a few teams that regretted discarding cycles last time round too!

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4 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

NZ B2 is a big surprise to just about everyone.  For a design team that prides themselves in being innovative and unique, there is nothing unique about B2 except for the enclosed crew areas.  Even that is a copy of the old AC45.  Every other element is seen on another AC75’s and some of those have even been discarded.

Really?? If ETNZ had been the first to launch, everybody would have been saying how innovative the boat was. there might have been some comment about having the same slab sides as Ineos B1, but the rest would have been all new. By the time ETNZ saw any of the other boats, their B2 was well underway and they couldn't change the design. It seems to me that based on all the available information, which includes what others have built, both ETNZ and Ineos have, totally independently, ended up with similar ideas as to what is important in a hull.

However, as any foiler will tell you, it doesn't matter how good your platform is if the foils aren't good enough. Great foils on an average platform will beat average foils on a great platform. Same with the rig and its control systems, although I suspect that this time around there aren't as many gains to be made in the rig as there are in the foils.

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6 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

Every other element is seen on another AC75’s and some of those have even been discarded.

Yeah but none of them have put them together like ETNZ has. Still, hull shape is likely to be only 5-10% of the equation. Foils, rig/sails, control system, and how well they get around the track make up most of the performance.

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58 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

NZ B2 is a big surprise to just about everyone.  For a design team that prides themselves in being innovative and unique, there is nothing unique about B2 except for the enclosed crew areas.  Even that is a copy of the old AC45.  Every other element is seen on another AC75’s and some of those have even been discarded.

Yes but do we really know if they copied or they were always going that way? Think about it, Nick Holroyd Ineos and Dan Bernasconi ETNZ long time co-designers. There's an argument for both ways but at the moment because they launched later it looks like they copied? I'm not too sure about that?

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13 minutes ago, NZL3481 said:

Unfortunately they have in the past. Hopefully not again...

 

32 and 38 were obviously fast

57 and 60 were fast

81 and 82 were fast but fragile

91 (?) and 92 were fast but 100 was just a little more consistent

The AC72 was fast but yes a little slower at the end

The AC50 was fast.

So that's one dud in 25 years... Maybe ;)

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7 minutes ago, meanermachine said:

32 and 38 were obviously fast

57 and 60 were fast

81 and 82 were fast but fragile

91 (?) and 92 were fast but 100 was just a little more consistent

The AC72 was fast but yes a little slower at the end

The AC50 was fast.

So that's one dud in 25 years... Maybe ;)

Fragile didn't win too many races though. The rest were quick.

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18 minutes ago, trt131 said:

What really surprises me is the number of KIWI fanbois that rubbished the other boats as being ugly, particularly the Poms, but now are saying ETNZ B2 great, fast and unique.  Where can i buy those rose-coloured glasses.

They can only be purchased if you have a kiwi passport 

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