Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Looking at the animation there is only a wheel on the port side. This makes me think that it is the only position for steering (so no changing sides) Which gives PB eyes when they don’t have a starboard advantage in a close cross. BT will be on starboard flying the foils.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 16.6k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

It's pissing down outside and yes, we are back to Level 3. To all those moaning and bitching about it and calling the PM childish names, get a grip, we are the luckiest people in the world right

They towed out around 11am and the breeze was light and puffy to start with. Foiled down the Channel and headed out to the Bays. The breeze started to build around midday and they got some long runs i

Yes, quite light but I didn't see all the afternoon's sailing, can only comment on later in the day, when Britannia 2 was running a #1 jib and foiling around no problem. They look quite quick at times

Posted Images

2 hours ago, Chimp too said:

So in the last cup many complained that the class drove to no obvious crew work being visible and manoeuvres being rather dull.

gone another step thus cup. You can’t even see the crew!

Meh.  I just wanna see hard-core sailing v hard-core sailing tbh.  All the component flesh suits are a part of this. 

Each AC team has the best sailors on the planet, teamed with the best designers on the planet.  These alphas want the most hard-core version, so hence we see AC-75s and IMOCAs etc. A yacht designed for a single handed, unsupported, circumnavigation of our globe, would smash almost every match race vessel from 20 years ago.

Not keen on luddites tbh

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, uflux said:

Looking at the animation there is only a wheel on the port side. This makes me think that it is the only position for steering (so no changing sides) Which gives PB eyes when they don’t have a starboard advantage in a close cross. BT will be on starboard flying the foils.

I would have thought going to windward in a cross he'd be blinded on port tack.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

indeed they are, people denying what is blindingly obvious is funny

The Kiwi boat doesn’t have the approximate midship (hull canoebody) “blister” type geometry as

on Ineos ~ a major change to hydrodynamic consideration.

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, DayTripper said:

I would have thought going to windward in a cross he'd be blinded on port tack.

If you are only going to be on one side. You would want to be on the port side as that is where you are more vulnerable in a cross as you don’t have the starboard tack advantage 

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Neverwas said:

HAHAHAHAAHAHHAHAHAHAH Kiwi boat looks like Ineos boat that all the kiwis spent months slagging off!!!!  I cant wait for all the back tracking now hahahahahahah

Someone in the design office left their kids alone with some scissors, glue, and spy shots of the other boats. Kid made a collage. Collage fell into the fax machine and someones elbow hit send to the boat builders..... boat builders pissed themselves but know enough to not question "radical kiwi design".....rest is history.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Chris UK said:

Someone in the design office left their kids alone with some scissors, glue, and spy shots of the other boats. Kid made a collage. Collage fell into the fax machine and someones elbow hit send to the boat builders..... boat builders pissed themselves but know enough to not question "radical kiwi design".....rest is history.

Did they also invent a time machine to send it back to when the boat build started? Or did the other teams invent that to peak on the Kiwis 6 months into the future?

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, JonRowe said:

Did they also invent a time machine to send it back to when the boat build started? Or did the other teams invent that to peak on the Kiwis 6 months into the future?

so everyone else copied kiwi Boat 2 is really what your saying?

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

so everyone else copied kiwi Boat 2 is really what your saying?

No, I'm just sick of the "they copied other peoples boat 2" line. Nobody copied anyones boat 2, they all were too far down build paths.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, uflux said:

If you are only going to be on one side. You would want to be on the port side as that is where you are more vulnerable in a cross as you don’t have the starboard tack advantage 

Yes, you said that before. I guess I have to repeat my observation/query. How is one not blinded if one is on port tack going to windward in a close cross when one is on the port side of the vessel? What am I missing?

Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, JonRowe said:

No, I'm just sick of the "they copied other peoples boat 2" line. Nobody copied anyones boat 2, they all were too far down build paths.

its not been 24 hours and you are  sick of it already? there are months of jolly japes to be had, the container ship pics the party barge gags, all of that supper funny stuff., if you cant see the funny side of it then try being a brit when Ineos B1 was launched..

its like being a kiwi now but asking yourself why Ineos dropped certain features that are now on your B2. ;)

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, JALhazmat said:

calm down dear, if you cant see the funny side of it then try being a brit when Ineos B1 was launched..

its like being a kiwi now but asking yourself why Ineos dropped certain features that are now on your B2. ;)

 

I don’t think today has been to the positive for the Kiwi Defence.....

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, DayTripper said:

Yes, you said that before. I guess I have to repeat my observation/query. How is one not blinded if one is on port tack going to windward in a cross when one is on the port side of the vessel? What am I missing?

Pete is amazing and has   X-ray vision, no one is better than him, he is the best.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, JALhazmat said:

calm down dear, if you cant see the funny side of it then try being a brit when Ineos B1 was launched..

its like being a kiwi now but asking yourself why Ineos dropped certain features that are now on your B2. ;)

You mean a bit like how INEOS B2 has features from ETNZ B1? Or how AM B2 has features from Te Kahu? And how LR B1 shared features with ETNZ B1? How did so many intelligent people are come up with similar ideas, it is almost like all the designers are trying to solve the same problems within the same set of rules?

Oh and FWIW I am a brit ;)

Link to post
Share on other sites

there is ALOT of oversensitive people on this tread.

18 minutes ago, JonRowe said:

You mean a bit like how INEOS B2 has features from ETNZ B1? Or how AM B2 has features from Te Kahu? And how LR B1 shared features with ETNZ B1? How did so many intelligent people are come up with similar ideas, it is almost like all the designers are trying to solve the same problems within the same set of rules?

Oh and FWIW I am a brit ;)

yes we have done this, kiwis and NZ supporters crying copy of the bustle when Ineos B2 launched.  so what's good for the goose etc,

especially when Ineos B1 was widely derided by the all knowing SA masses, you have to allow a little gentle mirth that the exalted Bernasconi looked and liked what he saw.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

there is ALOT of oversensitive people on this tread.

Theres also a bunch of trolls in this thread, but hey thats just SA.

If you can't take banter back when giving banter its not banter.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Neverwas said:

Kiwis have been giving out "Banter" for the last year! Suddenly they have an ugly boat and they have all gone grumpy!! :lol:

Yur a pretty big fool splattering useless ascii everywhere all of a sudden.

What rock did you crawl out from after your non posts for the last year on this puppet handle? Your rock is still there waiting for your return.

Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Neverwas said:

Suddenly they have an ugly boat and they have all gone grumpy!! 

I think she looks spectacular. I think all the B2's look great, and is a testament to the designers really getting a handle on this rule. With the design tools they have today, gone are the days when it took generations to optimise a rule. The current fleet of AC75's are simply stunning and amazing boats, going at unheard of speeds. What's not to like?

  • Like 8
Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting the way it doesn't float flat at the dock, and it looks like the port slings are slackened.  

Better be fast! 

The mainsail deck is really interesting.

Just going on the look of the B2s I think Amwagic, then LR, then a giant gap, then NZ and GB pretty much tied.  ETNZ B1 to me was the prettiest of all. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

The undersides of Rita2 are quite different to NZB2. She has none of the flare and Vee shape forward, yet at the stern she is a bit Vee shaped whereas NZB2 is dead flat aft. For me, the prominent thing about Ineos underwater shape is that skeg, keel thing. The skeg is smaller on NZ's boat and less prominent.

2033720235_P1190501(2).thumb.JPG.9b0e936b83c2c4f3037548ec9a075aa4.jpg.1cb018be1aa65a3cee50cefa3b17072e.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

It's interesting to me that NZL boat 2 sits the way it does.  Essentially the only thing in the water is that narrow skeg, which is very reminiscent of a moth or a canoe shape.  It's minimized wetted surface completely.  Ineos didn't take it quite that far, and it will be interesting to see (and I'd wager a bet) that NZ is a little quicker getting into the air than INEOS because of their skeg shapes.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Futuristic,
AE97AE75-B5D5-4ABD-AE11-87EBE7D14A34.thumb.jpeg.c45662a726d329b367938756fa0615b5.jpeg.541dbf881c6e6fe7f650dfbe92e1068b.jpeg

I like the tunneling effect of the bottom, smart, gives extra lift.
DBEC744D-0B34-464E-8944-E3C3C1BCB555.thumb.jpeg.2e46bd7a33104e5f31f5748f1179a22e.jpeg.053bb6506c8ce4e03bfbfc60de592c24.jpeg
 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, Schakel said:

Futuristic,
AE97AE75-B5D5-4ABD-AE11-87EBE7D14A34.thumb.jpeg.c45662a726d329b367938756fa0615b5.jpeg.541dbf881c6e6fe7f650dfbe92e1068b.jpeg

I like the tunneling effect of the bottom, smart, gives extra lift.
DBEC744D-0B34-464E-8944-E3C3C1BCB555.thumb.jpeg.2e46bd7a33104e5f31f5748f1179a22e.jpeg.053bb6506c8ce4e03bfbfc60de592c24.jpeg
 

I really like it. No doubt in my mind which team has won the “amphibious fuselage” design competition.......... 

Although I prefer Ineos 2’s hard edged ski keel....

B6A81A81-2157-4330-8FFD-6B3F68C22D2A.jpeg

7B1851D0-B8E4-4EBE-9C73-CBCB2C8231CC.jpeg

Edited by Sidecar
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Sidecar said:

No doubt in my mind which team has won the “amphibious fuselage” design competition.......... 

B6A81A81-2157-4330-8FFD-6B3F68C22D2A.jpeg

7B1851D0-B8E4-4EBE-9C73-CBCB2C8231CC.jpeg

Yep, It's a flying boat!

Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, Grrr... said:

It's interesting to me that NZL boat 2 sits the way it does.  Essentially the only thing in the water is that narrow skeg, which is very reminiscent of a moth or a canoe shape.  It's minimized wetted surface completely.  Ineos didn't take it quite that far, and it will be interesting to see (and I'd wager a bet) that NZ is a little quicker getting into the air than INEOS because of their skeg shapes.

or slower to get up because of the massive flat arse section 

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

Worth noting that there is no tunnelling as such, it doesn't curve down again, nor can it or it would fall foul of rule 11.6 (to ensure they are monohulls). It can at most be flat.

 

so any 'tunneled air' is going to be escaping out the sides and back end rather sharply compared to that nice enclosed tunnel on the Cat ferry

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, terrafirma said:

The Italians analysis of ETNZ's B2. Very good work from these guys done in English. Funny at times. 

 

I've been interested in understanding the purpose of the narrow ridge running the length of the keels.  These guys talk about separating the flow between sides.  Can anyone explain why you'd want to?

Also, there's no reference here to the crew pods, which to me is the greatest advancement of this boat.

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Sidecar said:

I really like it. No doubt in my mind which team has won the “amphibious fuselage” design competition.......... 

 Although I prefer Ineos 2’s hard edged ski keel....

But then I am biased......

CBCB1EBC-2B42-495F-825C-133BF55A8FE2.jpeg

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

Worth noting that there is no tunnelling as such, it doesn't curve down again, nor can it or it would fall foul of rule 11.6 (to ensure they are monohulls). It can at most be flat.

 

Cushion effect is a better description.
The quant foiler had a flat bottom as well.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

The only obvious feature from NZ B2 you can directly attribute to a challengers previous boat is the slabside/scoop front of the Ineos B1. Wonder why Ineos reverted the design for its B2, maybe it worked out in their models but not in real life, or maybe their boom/sail foot was too high and their sides too low to have a significant height differential to realize the models predictions. 

Also has anyone come up with a hypothesis as to why the keel on Ineos B2 has hard edges? Seems like the hard edge is why they havent tacked on a blade like LR but why not just have a rounded fat profile keel with blade like NZ B2. 

NZ B2 also has a “bustle” in the same location as Ineos B2 although much less pronounced, it is just hard to see in the photo/paintjob. I guess the speculation that it is to accommodate the foil canting system is true.

also how do you set posters to ignore? With the many interesting contributions and insights in this forum I wish the moderators actually did their job instead of ignoring trolling and spam to increase site activity to extract more revenue from advertisers. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

Worth noting that there is no tunnelling as such, it doesn't curve down again, nor can it or it would fall foul of rule 11.6 (to ensure they are monohulls). It can at most be flat.

 

If the bottom does go flat, surely a tunnel effect could be created when the boat is heeled over. And my guess it would be in exactly the best place. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Sidecar said:

No it is an amphibious glider.......And unlike a glider, it can take off by itself.

If it was amphibious it would able to make speed on land.
But she certainly is spectaculair. Most curvy spectaculair design,
Shaping would have been a huge task.
I understand why she was a bit late.

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Sidecar said:

No it is an amphibious glider.......And unlike a glider, it can take off by itself.

Quote

“It’s a boy, it’s a boy!” And somebody said: “But it hasn’t got a winkle!” And I said: “God be praised, it’s a miracle. A boy without a winkle!” And then Sir Thomas More pointed out that a boy without a winkle is a girl. Everyone was really disappointed.

Likewise, an amphibious glider that can take off by itself is a flying boat

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, laser 173312 said:

If the bottom does go flat, surely a tunnel effect could be created when the boat is heeled over. And my guess it would be in exactly the best place. 

Good theory, but if you heel then your RM reduces and everything else gets worse, hence why they are sailed so flat or with a small windward heel once up and out. And you don't want lift on the windward side once you are up

Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

Good theory, but if you heel then your RM reduces and everything else gets worse, hence why they are sailed so flat or with a small windward heel once up and out. And you don't want lift on the windward side once you are up

If you are heeled to windward, you have righting moment to spare? And the “lift “ helps hold you up?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Two separate jib tracks, one track for the main(s).

Driver looks to be one per side (I guess the other one is grinding or doing tactics?)

Hull when heeled looks like it will provide some very scow / cat like stability and a tunnel to break the suction to launch the boat out of the water.

Interesting design.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

If you are out of the water then you have enough lift, and more lift (especially on windward side) will reduce RM. 

But more aerodynamic lift means you could reduce flap angle on the foils potentially and reduce drag 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, barfy said:

Yur a pretty big fool splattering useless ascii everywhere all of a sudden.

What rock did you crawl out from after your non posts for the last year on this puppet handle? Your rock is still there waiting for your return.

Cheer up Darling!! :D

im a big fool? is that a threat hahahah

Forums aren't my life so I really don't care, i've been watching all your shit throwing for the last few weeks about ugly boats and now yours is just as bad, I think its hilarious!

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, enigmatically2 said:

Good theory, but if you heel then your RM reduces and everything else gets worse, hence why they are sailed so flat or with a small windward heel once up and out. And you don't want lift on the windward side once you are up

Agreed, but with the bow down stance they all use, would a tunnel towards the rear create lift, or down force? I've not seen much of any of the boats sailing flat. Wish I had a good CFD program to try and simulate some of this

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, laser 173312 said:

Agreed, but with the bow down stance they all use, would a tunnel towards the rear create lift, or down force? I've not seen much of any of the boats sailing flat. Wish I had a good CFD program to try and simulate some of this

Fair point, you mean like this airflow diagram where it creates lower pressure below the hull?

Screen Shot 2020-11-18 at 9.56.06 AM.jpg

 

That is from GB 1 and isn't tunneling

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

Fair point, you mean like this airflow diagram where it creates lower pressure below the hull?

Screen Shot 2020-11-18 at 9.56.06 AM.jpg

 

That is from GB 1 and isn't tunneling

Exactly what I'm getting at and adding a marginal tunnelling effect.

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, enigmatically2 said:

Short memory.

24 hours ago GB2 was an ugly dead end according to you, now it is a copy of the "elegant" NZ1?

yet the bustles go in progression from rounded to square of NZ1->NZ2-> GB2. So GB2 is more similar to NZ2 than NZ1

The high sides go from GB1->NZ2->GB2 (getting lower)

NZ2 has the flatter bows like GB1/2 and unlike NZ1

So both GB boats have far more in common with NZ2 than either do with NZ1, or indeed NZ2 does with NZ1. And NZ2 and GB2 are more similar than AM or LR.

I am of course not suggesting they copied because there wasn't time, but the similarities are obvious. Yes NZ2 has some differences (how could it be otherwise) but the 2 teams are obviously following a similar design path in terms of the particular design features they have picked as those to concentrate on in the war of compromises

I've never said Britannia 2 is ugly, in fact I think she looks great.

Britannia was ugly and she was also a Dog.

Te Rehutai has more similarities with Te Kahu then with Ineos B1.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, ed__miller said:

Don’t forget the ‘turbulators’ aka ‘cockpit drains’ to vent the high pressure down below ;)

They are vortex generators with built in plasma reactors! We have done this to death already!! ;-)

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, ed__miller said:

Although on a serious note has anyone found the cockpit drains on ETNZ2?

or will they be using that trusty  bailing bucket from before ;) 

Responding to the "serious" part of that question, yes, I've mentioned them above.  There are a series of flaps in the underside of the hull.  Difficult to see and even more difficult to photograph.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, laser 173312 said:

Exactly what I'm getting at and adding a marginal tunnelling effect.

I've thought Patriots stern is specifically designed to create low pressure at the stern like this. 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, enigmatically2 said:

Odd, I don't recall NZ 1 having the slab sides, or the large square skeg, or the small thin add-on keel....

Because Te Aihe isn't Te Kahu.

Look at Te Kahu and you will see the similarities.

More than what is shared with Britannia 1

  • Downvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites