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Yeah no bustle 

 

you do get the same shoddy workmanship that was pointed out on ineos B2, though.  how good was the photo copier lads? 
 

oh ripples in the surface.. ;-) 

in this case I am sure it was deliberate for more speeeeeed! And to help with ground effect. 

19ECC640-E33E-42EB-9F5D-C09E7197F5F6.jpeg

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It's pissing down outside and yes, we are back to Level 3. To all those moaning and bitching about it and calling the PM childish names, get a grip, we are the luckiest people in the world right

They towed out around 11am and the breeze was light and puffy to start with. Foiled down the Channel and headed out to the Bays. The breeze started to build around midday and they got some long runs i

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8 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

All of the teams simulated each other’s boats.  Everyone wants to know why the design choices were made.

NZ must have found some of the same advantages to those features that UK did when they built B1.  Now that UK has more realtime, on the water data, to feed into their simulator.  UK has first hand knowledge of the problems.  They obviously thought the problems outweighed the gains and changed the design.   Same goes for UK adding the bustle, they must have seen the advantages that NZ saw in the design, but NZ knows the problems and changed.

The major differences is that NZ has the concave bow that should help with liftoff and fix one of the UK B1 major problems.  UK has added a little bustle, but they kept the back wide to give more pre-takeoff stability than the NZ B1.  You can clearly see that NZ has flattened the stern to improve their stability.

These two boats took major risks in making such a deviation from their original design and to adopt a competitors concept.  Both teams must be a little nervous because the design features they chose to feature was abandoned by the original designer.

The overall winner in the design was LR in that everyone moved towards their design concept.

"The overall winner in the design was LR in that everyone moved towards their design concept."

Er, Disagree 100%.

I'm in the camp that says the Italians have parked themselves half way across the road, whereas ENTZ and INEOS have taken the bustle to its conclusion.   

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1 hour ago, Forourselves said:

Te Rehutai has more similarities with Te Kahu then with Ineos B1.

Te Rehutai has a mildly similar bow section and crew pods - but that's all I'm seeing compared to Te Kahu. The similarities to Britannia are far more obvious, in her flat run aft and the raised slab sides, IMO.

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Just now, Sailbydate said:

Te Rehutai has a mildly similar bow section and crew pods - but that's all I'm seeing compared to Te Kahu. The similarities to Britannia are far more obvious, in her flat run aft and the raised slab sides, IMO.

Agree +1

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8 hours ago, Chris UK said:

Someone in the design office left their kids alone with some scissors, glue, and spy shots of the other boats. Kid made a collage. Collage fell into the fax machine and someones elbow hit send to the boat builders..... boat builders pissed themselves but know enough to not question "radical kiwi design".....rest is history.

Pretty good history..B)

5959e58b74bda_DaltsCup.jpg.7b70bd65e7c5071b2de97e2e176c1da2.jpg

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18 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Dalton said on radio that they'll slowly work through systems testing and later this afternoon all going well the might open the throttle a bit.

Not surprising, it’s an entirely new boat concept  remember ;-) 

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1 hour ago, Stingray~ said:

Was good to hear the two Italians comment on the wider fairing at the bottom of Te R’s wings, it hasn’t gotten much comment here so far. If Te R is Mauro for Sea Spray then this feature fits with the name nicely. 

It's MAORI you ignorant BLM fuckwit!!

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4 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Love to know what's going on in Nick Holroyd's head right about now. 

He must be feeling pretty good! 
 

The Who-copied-who question is a bit pointless, but the fact that Holroyd and Bernasconi reached many similar conclusions must surely be a comfort to both, a validation that the decisions are well thought out even when reached independently. 

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1 minute ago, Sailbydate said:

Love to know what's going on in Nick Holroyd's head right about now. 

Rather know what was in bernasconis head when he saw ineos B1  then eventually had to tell GD he was doing a new boat only then to see Ineos and AM b2s 

 

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1 minute ago, Stingray~ said:

He must be feeling pretty good! 

Yeah. But maybe there's also a 'Damn" in there too. If things he's let go are the ones that prove the original concept a winner?

Bernasconi obviously thinks Brtiannia's flat wide run aft is the bees knees, for example and he's found an extended use for the slab sides, coupled with a lowered deck.

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3 minutes ago, biff said:

What happens to guys on the low side when they capsize?                                       

 

asking for a friend 

They get to swim, without even leaving their pods, by the look, unless the plumbing is uber.

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1 minute ago, Stingray~ said:

I’m more curious about the reaction by the LR and AM designers.. 

No doubt Max at least will have his nose in the air. :-)

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6 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

No doubt Max at least will have his nose in the air. :-)

Ha! The nose his brave ‘not intimidated’ face? 
 

Pure speculation but he may take comfort in the fact that the ‘stiletto’ blade LR added recently is a feature on Te R too. 

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 I think a few people need to stop getting over excited about the similarities. 
Ineos B1 stern wasn’t flat.

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSzzVOIFTUEh5cDylbYYFQ
 

infact theyre completely different.

DSC_1415.thumb.jpg.80df8a672a195f0364d784c0c7d375f3.jpg
 
The height of the topsides at the top of the curve, maybe, but Ineos topsides were straight and did not taper down to the stern, the deck layout is open compared to completely enclosed on ETNZ, no bustle as opposed to a very obvious bustle and a completely different bow profile. Chalk and cheese!

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from https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/americas-cup/123454881/americas-cup-team-new-zealand-see-new-boat-going-well-over-50-knots-and-the-envy-of-opposition

There was obvious pride in the Team New Zealand crew with what their designers and boatbuilders have given them and Ashby was wondering what their opponents were thinking.

“I’d love to be a fly on the wall at the other bases to hear their conversations on what they have seen roll out of the shed here.”

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26 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

I’m more curious about the reaction by the LR and AM designers.. 

It's extraordinary how much variation there is in hull design between the teams, albeit with a rough split between the underslung canoe/water-ski camp and the skeg camp.   

To my eye LR is the nicest boat to look at and INEOS and ETNZ are pretty confronting.  But that's mostly 'cause I've looked at displacement and planing hulls all my life.   As many have pointed out previously, the hull of these boats is mostly a launching platform for the foils and will spend most of the time flying above the water (excepting an occasional touch) so completely different principals apply.  We'll soon find out if our concept of a nice looking boat is fast or needs a refresh.  

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Thanks to all the eyes and cameras on the ground and water so we are able to see in real time this amazing spectacle unfold.  I said it earlier but I think it needs to be said again, FAST IS BEAUTIFUL, when the eventual victors hold up the Auld Mug I think aesthetics of the winning boat won't be a big talking point.  Let the games begin!

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1 minute ago, zenmasterfred said:

Thanks to all the eyes and cameras on the ground and water so we are able to see in real time this amazing spectacle unfold.

Bless the good heart of My Island Home in Bermuda, he was wonderful. But the coverage we are now enjoying in Auckland is truly awesome! 

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18 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

 I think a few people need to stop getting over excited about the similarities. 
Ineos B1 stern wasn’t flat.

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSzzVOIFTUEh5cDylbYYFQ
 

infact theyre completely different.

DSC_1415.thumb.jpg.80df8a672a195f0364d784c0c7d375f3.jpg
 
The height of the topsides at the top of the curve, maybe, but Ineos topsides were straight and did not taper down to the stern, the deck layout is open compared to completely enclosed on ETNZ, no bustle as opposed to a very obvious bustle and a completely different bow profile. Chalk and cheese!

I agree.  Not as many similarities as some are saying.

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Well, she is a surprise, that's for sure!

I can only guess but the AC75s simply are a new breed of sailing machines and will redefine the rules of looks vs performance, much as the later LMP1 cars did:

Porsche_919_Hybrid_-_Audi_R18_e-tron_quattro_(18866096545).thumb.jpg.f753faab64f1498477ae65c94944d506.jpg

Pretty much none of their design features pleases the eye or makes you say "Yeah, that's what a fast car (boat) should look like!". To the contrary, their appearance is mostly counter intuitive, disruptive or even repelling. But, boy, do they perform!

I will follow this cup with interest.

Probably with more interest in the evolving technology than the actual sailing, I admit.

 

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Wow.  She better be faster because that is the ugliest "sailboat" I've ever seen.  I sure hope they don't have another cup cycle of these dogs if this is the direction they are going.

 

Is there really going to be a driver just along for the ride on the leeward side?  Maybe they are going to switch off driving and foils?

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9 minutes ago, Rainier said:

Wow.  She better be faster because that is the ugliest "sailboat" I've ever seen.  I sure hope they don't have another cup cycle of these dogs if this is the direction they are going.

 

Is there really going to be a driver just along for the ride on the leeward side?  Maybe they are going to switch off driving and foils?

I figure there is a tunnel pete will pop up to windward like wakamole

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22 minutes ago, Rainier said:

Wow.  She better be faster because that is the ugliest "sailboat" I've ever seen. 

You must have missed UK B1...

ETNZ B2 is neither the prettiest, nor the ugliest of the group...

Only question now is, is whether it is the fastest...

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12 minutes ago, kenergy said:

She foils at least.

No foiling going on there, Ken. I think she's the right way up though. Hard to tell, I'll admit. ;-)

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1 minute ago, kenergy said:

Yeah, sorry wrong video.

I've changed it now, must remember to take my glasses next time. 

We'll put it down to excited anticipation. Fingers crossed, eh?

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5 minutes ago, rh3000 said:

You must have missed UK B1...

ETNZ B2 is neither the prettiest, nor the ugliest of the group...

Only question now is, is whether it is the fastest...

Hmmm. I haven't got past the "why?" yet, RH. You're way past me. Your faith is stronger maybe?

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2 minutes ago, ivansh said:

Shit-slinging aside, I think it's pretty exciting to see how different the competitor's designs are. This might be the most variation we've seen in recent history, aside from the dog matches

Maybe. Especially the variation in the V1 designs. After the V2 convergence, they're all pretty much in the same half of the box.

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19 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Yeah. But maybe there's also a 'Damn" in there too. If things he's let go are the ones that prove the original concept a winner?

Bernasconi obviously thinks Brtiannia's flat wide run aft is the bees knees, for example and he's found an extended use for the slab sides, coupled with a lowered deck.

I rather think that Holroyd and Bernasconi would have arrived independently at their respective design decisions through their naval architectural engineering expertise and sound design principles and simulations. As would have LR's and Team-NYYC's designers.

Their design directions were always likely to converge - you can't argue with physics..

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One thing I do love about the ETNZ boat. 

The shape is so defined and clean that you can just about see air flowing over it, even when it's stationary!  You can almost see how all the biyts working without even seeing it in action!

It's not pretty, but it certainly looks effective!

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This boat is pretty impressive. Those people losing their minds that she's like Ineos B1 clearly aren't the most observant folks out there. There are zero similarlites beyond a brief section of slab sides about two thirds the way back. That's where the similarities starts and end IMO. The aero is super impressive. Crew tucked into the cowlings either side (not sure if this is the right word). You can clearly see how the whole hull form is like a wing with a moth-like canoe volume hanging off the bottom, that blends with generous flat in the bow. The angle of the bottom volume gives a good suggestion of the intended sailing trim. Wonder if by lowering the deck as they have done gains sail area? The mast pivot is on a raised pedestal by the looks of it. Fascinating to think that when ETNZ claimed Te Kahu was a kind of B1.5, they weren't lying. The complexity down the centreline on the canoe volume is interesting. Are the little convavities and strake thingee about quick release or what? Also, to those who think there will be no trickle down from this incredible moment in AC time are not open minded enough. I have always felt like foiling cats seemed a little awkward and illogical. I believe what we are seeing here is the future of foiling hull forms. We are in the midst of another great leap, another paradigm shift in sailing I reckon. Man I love this stuff!!

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8 minutes ago, Indio said:

I rather think that Holroyd and Bernasconi would have arrived independently at their respective design decisions through their naval architectural engineering expertise and sound design principles and simulations. As would have LR's and Team-NYYC's designers.

Their design directions were always likely to converge - you can't argue with physics..

No disputing that. My musing was, might Nick have any regret not having more conviction in some of his original Britannia design choices, he seemed to abandon with his B2 design.

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7 hours ago, enigmatically2 said:
7 hours ago, Sidecar said:

If you are heeled to windward, you have righting moment to spare? And the “lift “ helps hold you up?

If you are out of the water then you have enough lift, and more lift (especially on windward side) will reduce RM

And when you are heeled to leeward, it will increase RM. in other words it has an inherent self levelling aspect to it which should also help maintain ride height, making it faster and easier to sail due to less foil adjustment?

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55 minutes ago, Hemi said:

This boat is pretty impressive. Those people losing their minds that she's like Ineos B1 clearly aren't the most observant folks out there. There are zero similarlites beyond a brief section of slab sides about two thirds the way back. That's where the similarities starts and end IMO. The aero is super impressive. Crew tucked into the cowlings either side (not sure if this is the right word). You can clearly see how the whole hull form is like a wing with a moth-like canoe volume hanging off the bottom, that blends with generous flat in the bow. The angle of the bottom volume gives a good suggestion of the intended sailing trim. Wonder if by lowering the deck as they have done gains sail area? The mast pivot is on a raised pedestal by the looks of it. Fascinating to think that when ETNZ claimed Te Kahu was a kind of B1.5, they weren't lying. The complexity down the centreline on the canoe volume is interesting. Are the little convavities and strake thingee about quick release or what? Also, to those who think there will be no trickle down from this incredible moment in AC time are not open minded enough. I have always felt like foiling cats seemed a little awkward and illogical. I believe what we are seeing here is the future of foiling hull forms. We are in the midst of another great leap, another paradigm shift in sailing I reckon. Man I love this stuff!!

* "blends with generous flare in the bow"

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2 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

from https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/americas-cup/123454881/americas-cup-team-new-zealand-see-new-boat-going-well-over-50-knots-and-the-envy-of-opposition

There was obvious pride in the Team New Zealand crew with what their designers and boatbuilders have given them and Ashby was wondering what their opponents were thinking.

“I’d love to be a fly on the wall at the other bases to hear their conversations on what they have seen roll out of the shed here.”

Stay humble glen... 

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2 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

video at LSD https://www.livesaildie.com/blair-tuke-we-need-to-figure-out-how-to-sail-this/

Emirates Team New Zealand sailing member Blair Tuke talks to Cameron Dunn about ‘Te Rehutai’ which was launched on Thursday 19 November 2020 in Auckland New Zealand.

Really the first competitor to give a shout out to AM as a formable challenger.  Everyone else seems to take them lightly.

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38 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

Really the first competitor to give a shout out to AM as a formable challenger.  Everyone else seems to take them lightly.

Who is everyone else? That’s actually gone on record and dismissed them? ( apart from max before they sailed past him recently.) 

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3 hours ago, Forourselves said:

 I think a few people need to stop getting over excited about the similarities. 
Ineos B1 stern wasn’t flat.

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSzzVOIFTUEh5cDylbYYFQ
 

infact theyre completely different.

DSC_1415.thumb.jpg.80df8a672a195f0364d784c0c7d375f3.jpg
 
The height of the topsides at the top of the curve, maybe, but Ineos topsides were straight and did not taper down to the stern, the deck layout is open compared to completely enclosed on ETNZ, no bustle as opposed to a very obvious bustle and a completely different bow profile. Chalk and cheese!

Fracker No2 not that flat arsed either.

Crikey some of the TNZ naysayers need a trip to Specsavers.

F9CFC552-5566-47C6-B6B6-50BEDEAAAD57.jpeg.978c002607452b1042c42642066659f7.jpeg

58F9CD8B-3D77-4A82-8803-4EBBEEFAA6FA.jpeg.1df4f609707d411e32661f354f4423b5.jpeg

 

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