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18 Years of Lies About Afghanistan


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I'm just glad we finally have a leader willing to take the political hit for doing the right thing. Might be too late with the country split in half but it's a start. 

Afghanistan has embarrassed world powers for 100+ years. Not just the US but England and Russia got their butts kicked by trying to make control that region. This is a tribal society that defies weste

we were done with the mission in Afganistan 3 weeks after we arrived and should have left and never have gone into Iraq biggest waste of human life and our tax dollars in my lifetime by far

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On 8/9/2021 at 12:01 AM, AJ Oliver said:

The question is, what are you going to do about it ?? 

Do you think it will happen all by itself ?? 

Vets For Peace does not. 

(Not to say that I have all, or even very many, of the answers . . . 

but I can say that I tried) 

You are only puffing and huffing. You can say you tried but others will point out you can't actually eat pie in the sky. You've only fooled your self. No one else is dumb enough to think you've accomplished jack shit, Ollie. 

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Meanwhile, 2,442 U.S. troops have been killed and 20,666 wounded in the war since 2001, according to the Defense Department. It’s estimated that over 3,800 U.S. private security contractors have been killed. ... 

The U.S. has spent a stunning total of $2.26 trillion on a dizzying array of expenses, according to the Costs of War project.

Unlike with other conflicts in American history, the U.S. borrowed heavily to fund the war in Afghanistan and has paid some $530 billion in interest ...

Much of the billions lavished on huge infrastructure projects went to waste, the U.S. inspector general discovered. https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2021-04-30/counting-the-costs-of-americas-20-year-war-in-afghanistan

 

 

And for what?

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I dream how different it would be if the people I voted for would have won.

Mc Govern over Nixon-No Watergate-Less loss of blood and treasure in Vietnam

Carter over Reagan-The Unionized Air Traffic Controllers would still have their jobs

Gore over Bush-Which mistake didn't he make?

Clinton over TFG-Joe is getting it fixed

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On 12/9/2019 at 2:32 PM, badlatitude said:

Yes, and then we need to see peace for a change. We have spent more money than even our great-grandchildren will be able to repay on this debt in their lifetimes. We should all be ashamed.

The spend is not the issue here, we are preparing to spend double the cost of the Afghan war to stimulate an overheated economy... 

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4 minutes ago, Movable Ballast said:

The spend is not the issue here, we are preparing to spend double the cost of the Afghan war to stimulate an overheated economy... 

another who doesn't understand, well, much about anything actually...

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22 minutes ago, Movable Ballast said:

The spend is not the issue here, we are preparing to spend double the cost of the Afghan war to stimulate an overheated economy... 

The infrastructure bills are for ... infrastructure. You know, that thing your boy Shitstain promised 4 years ago. What did your boy do instead? Your boy Shitstain cut taxes for the wealthy.

image.png.e637be0cc141b24e221cdfb1fb4b6ba9.png

https://www.propublica.org/article/secret-irs-files-reveal-how-much-the-ultrawealthy-gained-by-shaping-trumps-big-beautiful-tax-cut

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5 hours ago, Raz'r said:

Latest in the press is that Kabul may fall in the next 30 days. 

The troops in the provinces have barely been putting up a fight. The taliban tells them all they have to do to get out of this mess alive is is lay down their weapons or join them, and word is out they are honoring that pledge, so that's what they have been doing.  

 If that same level of morale exists in the units defending Kabul it could've fallen over the weekend. I suppose that's why we dispatched three battalions. The road from the embassy to the airport isn't terribly long but it goes through some tricky to defend spots. 

  My WAG is the talibs won't want to press that issue, they will give us a couple weeks to get out. They've been at it for a generation too. Only the blood they have to spill now. 

 

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1 minute ago, Mark K said:

The troops in the provinces have barely been putting up a fight. The taliban tells them all they have to do to get out of this mess alive is is lay down their weapons or join them, and word is out they are honoring that pledge, so that's what they have been doing.  

 If that same level of morale exists in the units defending Kabul it could've fallen over the weekend. I suppose that's why we dispatched three battalions. The road from the embassy to the airport isn't terribly long but it goes through some tricky to defend spots. 

  My WAG is the talibs won't want to press that issue, they will give us a couple weeks to get out. They've been at it for a generation too. Only the blood they have to spill now. 

 

Turns out fighting the US for twenty years is wayyyyy better than being trained by the US for 20 years in terms of crafting an army

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10 minutes ago, Clove Hitch said:

Turns out fighting the US for twenty years is wayyyyy better than being trained by the US for 20 years in terms of crafting an army

There's a reason the Taliban succeeded in taking the place over from the tribes back in the 90's, it's still in place. 

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25 minutes ago, Clove Hitch said:

Turns out fighting the US for twenty years is wayyyyy better than being trained by the US for 20 years in terms of crafting an army

Didn't we learn our lesson in South America?

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The economists have a term:   “Sunk costs fallacy”

The redneck has a saying:   “Couldn’t fight their way out of a wet paper bag”

The military has a repeated report:   “The Afghan army is making great progress with our help.”   

We could have replaced the US military and state department with a teenage video game nerd.   I bet he could have accomplished the same ends in months.   We would have saved trillion dollars if we ran away in 2002, and many thousands of lives (mostly civilians).  

 

49D43C6A-F744-468F-A1C9-9E3321A03DDF.jpeg

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3 hours ago, Movable Ballast said:

No, stupidity. But off topic I guess. I gave up on the "nation building" thing a long time ago. There is not a single American soldier's life worth propping up these regimes. 

So, how many Q-crazies lives would it be worth to prop up the Trump regime?

They're storming the Capitol again tomorrow, right? Got air support lined up?

- DSK

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2 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

So, how many Q-crazies lives would it be worth to prop up the Trump regime?

They're storming the Capitol again tomorrow, right? Got air support lined up?

- DSK

Air support, check.

190702170740-trump-baby-balloon-washingt

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15 minutes ago, Venom said:

Who could have guessed this would be the outcome?  

Me, because as usual the US went in there without a plan, same as Iraq and Vietnam. But hey, at least a certain CiC could pronounce "Mission Accomplished". Who would have thought at the time that a even bigger loser would become a republican president?

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20 minutes ago, Marty6 said:

Me, because as usual the US went in there without a plan, same as Iraq and Vietnam. But hey, at least a certain CiC could pronounce "Mission Accomplished". Who would have thought at the time that a even bigger loser would become a republican president?

Actually we went in with a plan--get OBL--but failed when we had him at Tora Bora. W the Stupid then stayed there to avoid admitting failure. He was already on to his next failure, Iraq.

 

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9 minutes ago, Olsonist said:

Actually we went in with a plan--get OBL--but failed when we had him at Tora Bora.

Never even got close at Tora Bora. So q.e.d.. never had a plan for afterwards.

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11 minutes ago, Marty6 said:

Never even got close at Tora Bora. So q.e.d.. never had a plan for afterwards.

That may be, but the US went in with a plan. The plan for afterwards should have been simple: leave. What I've read is that OBL was there but slipped our grasp. The occupation and 'nation building' was cover for that failure. It's also pretty clear that W the Stupid was immediately more interested in settling a Bush family score in Iraq than to concentrate his two neurons on finding OBL.

We had reason to pursue and find OBL. Obama finally did that. Everything else was stupid.

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Haven't we seen this movie before......a few times...?

America spends massively in lives and money for a decade or more, massively fucks up some brown folks' country, then withdraws having accomplished fuck-all besides massive profits for the usual corporations, leaving behind a wrecked country run by fuckin' loonies.

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13 hours ago, Olsonist said:

That may be, but the US went in with a plan. The plan for afterwards should have been simple: leave. What I've read is that OBL was there but slipped our grasp. The occupation and 'nation building' was cover for that failure. It's also pretty clear that W the Stupid was immediately more interested in settling a Bush family score in Iraq than to concentrate his two neurons on finding OBL.

We had reason to pursue and find OBL. Obama finally did that. Everything else was stupid.

That's what we should have done. Left after we got OBL. They would respect that, and were and are unlikely to idly mess around with any renegade looney Arabs for quite some time. They paid a terrible price for the last time. 

 However they must now deal with some remnants of ISIL still hanging around. If I were in their shoes I'd keep close tabs on them and kill them the moment they acted the least bit froggy. Many of them simply appear to want a home, and may adopt Mullah Omar's vision instead of Zawahri's. The difference is Omar sought to create a puritan Islamic realm and block the rest of the world out, Zawahri sought to forcibly convert the whole world. 

   

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14 minutes ago, Mark K said:

That's what we should have done. Left after we got OBL. They would respect that, and were and are unlikely to idly mess around with any renegade looney Arabs for quite some time. They paid a terrible price for the last time. 

 However they must now deal with some remnants of ISIL still hanging around. If I were in their shoes I'd keep close tabs on them and kill them the moment they acted the least bit froggy. Many of them simply appear to want a home, and may adopt Mullah Omar's vision instead of Zawahri's. The difference is Omar sought to create a puritan Islamic realm and block the rest of the world out, Zawahri sought to forcibly convert the whole world. 

Yep, that's what happened with Kansi. I didn't know about the body repatriation. That was a mistake but W the Stupid was good at mistakes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mir_Aimal_Kansi

Not only did the Pentagon dead enders end up losing but they made Afghanistan infinitely worse. They did however redistribute hella money to the Right people.

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And now the same Neo-Cons who lobbied for the 2001 invasion and the Forever War . . 

are now criticizing Biden for finally getting out. 

Back then, if the US had to invade anywhere, it should have been Saudi 

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2 minutes ago, AJ Oliver said:

And now the same Neo-Cons who lobbied for the 2001 invasion and the Forever War . . 

are now criticizing Biden for finally getting out. 

Back then, if the US had to invade anywhere, it should have been Saudi 

Who here is criticizing getting out? Who are these same "neo-cons"? 

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3 hours ago, AJ Oliver said:

OK class, . . . today's assignment will be for you to predict the next chapter of the Forever War. 

To get you started, read and comment on this . .   

https://www.juancole.com/2021/08/director-listen-israelis.html

Iran is too powerful.   Casualties must be kept low.  Vietnam proved we quit sooner when a lot of kids die.

North Korea has nukes.

Maritius is the obvious choice to me.   

  1. Convenient access for carrier task forces and amphibious assault ships. 
  2. Allows us to flex muscle near China, but not too near.
  3. UK has an old grudge, they might help.
  4. 688 person coast guard, our destroyers are safe.
  5. 10.000 person total military, counting the police. 
  6. Hard for Iran to smuggle weapons to them.
  7. Most peaceful country in / near Africa (We can win)
  8. Offers Free Universal health care.  That must be stopped.  
  9. Brown non Christian population. 

The island ticks all the boxes.   This looks a lot less dangerous then a tanker.   

Image result for Mauritius Coast Guard. Size: 316 x 160. Source: defpost.com

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41 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Meh

They don't got oil

- DSK

That was 2001.   Now it’s rare earths.    Unfortunately Zimbabwe is off the table.   It’s hard for the carriers and marines to get to, just like Afghanistan. The Democratic Republic of Congo is a little better, but China owns too much interest in both of them.    Emperor Xi would forbid it.   

 

AB080A17-F727-43A9-9399-0ECFD06BFC7E.jpegEdit.   I realized why Moscow Mitch and his compadres are so loath to leave Afghanistan.  
https://www.nbcnews.com/science/science-news/rare-earth-afghanistan-sits-1-trillion-minerals-n196861.      The us taxpayers even paid for a survey.

 

he aerial surveys determined that Afghanistan may hold 60 million tons of copper, 2.2 billion tons of iron ore, 1.4 million tons of rare earth elements such as lanthanum, cerium and neodymium, and lodes of aluminum, gold, silver, zinc, mercury and lithium. For instance, the Khanneshin carbonatite deposit in Afghanistan's Helmand province is valued at $89 billion, full as it is with rare earth elements.

"Afghanistan is a country that is very, very rich in mineral resources," geologist Jack Medlin, program manager of the USGS Afghanistan project, told LiveScience. The scientists' work was detailed in the Aug. 15 issue of the journal Science.

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10 hours ago, Olsonist said:

U.S. Embassy In Kabul Tells Staff To Destroy Sensitive Material And Evacuate

you just had to know this was coming ...

Saigon-hubert-van-es.jpg

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36 minutes ago, Excoded Tom said:

None of that ever happened. A ragtag militia of locals can't take on a superpower and win. Just hasn't happened and never will. Or something.

I don't think it has ever happened. If we do our superpower stuff, we win too quickly. It has to drag out so the Halliburtons and the Blackwaters and Raytheons can move old stock, and lobbyists can funnel the payoffs.

All up, I think the military has sold us out from the top down. There's bound to be some honest brass but the last 4 years have shown us the tarnished players at the tippy top. I suspect the rank and file will follow the last order given without question.

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Just now, Mohammed Bin Lyin said:

Taliban leader along with Iranian leaders can have twitter accounts the bad orange man is still banned.

The mujahidden of the Islamic emirate are taking over would it be considered islamophobic to criticise this?

https://twitter.com/Zabehulah_M33

The city of Parun, the capital of Nuristan province, was also conquered.
Moments ago, the Mujahideen of the Islamic Emirate entered the city of Parun, the capital of Nuristan province, and seized the provincial building, the police headquarters, the intelligence center and all its accessories.
A large number of weapons, tools and equipment fell into the hands of the Mojahedin.

Glad Orange man is still banned.  He’s much more dangerous to Americans than the Taliban

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On 8/14/2021 at 7:44 AM, Blue Crab said:
On 8/14/2021 at 6:54 AM, Excoded Tom said:

None of that ever happened. A ragtag militia of locals can't take on a superpower and win. Just hasn't happened and never will. Or something.

I don't think it has ever happened. If we do our superpower stuff, we win too quickly. It has to drag out so the Halliburtons and the Blackwaters and Raytheons can move old stock, and lobbyists can funnel the payoffs.

All up, I think the military has sold us out from the top down. There's bound to be some honest brass but the last 4 years have shown us the tarnished players at the tippy top. I suspect the rank and file will follow the last order given without question.

The whole narrative of "a ragtag militia" is delusional, or a deliberate lie, from the git-go. First off, the Taliban is funded and supported by outside powers; also they are not fighting the USA, they are fighting the current (but apparently not for long) gov't of Afghanistan. The current (as of this morning) gov't is split even more than the USA, the loser of the Presidential election quite literally formed his own government claiming to rule, in many cases claiming the obedience of gov't agencies including military units and in other case just interfering and halting gov't operations. He is basically the ally of the Taliban, my prediction is that he (Abdullah Abdullah) will be shot by them as soon as they're solidly in power.

What we're seeing now looks like a replay of the collapse of South Viet Nam, and there are a lot of similarities: the South Vietnamese army actually fought quite well at first but collapsed and fled as defeat became more likely and then inevitable. The Afghan army skipped that first step. In both cases, the gov't was corrupt, ineffective, and did not have the loyalty of the majority of the people.... to a large extent, this reflects the history of Afghanistan as a "country."

Military sold us out? I dunno, they were given an impossible task.

- DSK

 

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5 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Military sold us out? I dunno, they were given an impossible task.

Yep. They should have risked their careers and said so and held the line against the corrupt civilian leadership, and brought their case to the people.  

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Just now, Blue Crab said:

Yep. They should have risked their careers and said so and held the line against the corrupt civilian leadership, and brought their case to the people.  

When you see an unpopular and ineffective gov't, and given the task of "nation-building," you have to say "this ain't gonna work" early and often.

FWIW I think 35~40% of USAnian people and probably 60~75% of USAnian politicians would have said "fuck that!" to withdrawing from Afghanistan at any point in the past 19 years. Just not in the cards.

In history, Afghanistan has never really been a country. They are not a divided population, they see themselves as completely different people who hate each other -almost- as much as they hate foreigners and Christians. They've been ruled by warlords but never been united.

- DSK

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4 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

What we're seeing now looks like a replay of the collapse of South Viet Nam, and there are a lot of similarities:

Another important similarity: The Pentagon Papers revealed that every US Prez from Ike on down (dunno about Truman) knew that the US was going to lose in Vietnam. 

But they all wanted to make sure the loss did not happen on THEIR watch - so they just kicked the can down the road. 

That strategy cost the US and VN millions of lives and trillions of $. 

All for that lie. 

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On 8/14/2021 at 3:54 AM, Excoded Tom said:

None of that ever happened. A ragtag militia of locals can't take on a superpower and win. Just hasn't happened and never will. Or something.

We've only had a couple thousand people there for the last couple years, and they did very little fighting. 

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8 minutes ago, random. said:
6 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Taliban is funded and supported by outside powers; also they are not fighting the USA, they are fighting the current (but apparently not for long) gov't of Afghanistan.

Seriously sucking the koolaid bro.  But that's ok, you are a victim of the propaganda.

The Afghan Government was a US Puppet, plain and simple.  The President fled rather than get his head cut off.

The Taliban probably does get funds and arms supplied, but they are the locals.  The US manufactured the term 'Insurgents' to wallpaper over the obvious facts of life.  I never bought the story, you did.

Umm, yeah

It would really prove the USA was the good guys if President Ghani stayed and got his head cut off? And I am correct about the Taliban being supported by outside powers but I'm the one drinking koolaid?

What the fuck is wrong is with you, other than luring me into wasting my time?

- DSK

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On 8/12/2021 at 9:03 PM, Marty6 said:

Never even got close at Tora Bora. So q.e.d.. never had a plan for afterwards.

Actually we did get pretty close at TB.  We just backed down when the pakis wouldn't let us close off the escape routes.

 

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Wonder how much the former Prez of Afghanistan has stashed away in various safe places from all the money the USA has been pumping into that country for the last 20 years?

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On 8/13/2021 at 6:55 PM, Lark said:

That was 2001.   Now it’s rare earths.    Unfortunately Zimbabwe is off the table.   It’s hard for the carriers and marines to get to, just like Afghanistan. The Democratic Republic of Congo is a little better, but China owns too much interest in both of them.    Emperor Xi would forbid it.   

 

AB080A17-F727-43A9-9399-0ECFD06BFC7E.jpegEdit.   I realized why Moscow Mitch and his compadres are so loath to leave Afghanistan.  
https://www.nbcnews.com/science/science-news/rare-earth-afghanistan-sits-1-trillion-minerals-n196861.      The us taxpayers even paid for a survey.

 

he aerial surveys determined that Afghanistan may hold 60 million tons of copper, 2.2 billion tons of iron ore, 1.4 million tons of rare earth elements such as lanthanum, cerium and neodymium, and lodes of aluminum, gold, silver, zinc, mercury and lithium. For instance, the Khanneshin carbonatite deposit in Afghanistan's Helmand province is valued at $89 billion, full as it is with rare earth elements.

"Afghanistan is a country that is very, very rich in mineral resources," geologist Jack Medlin, program manager of the USGS Afghanistan project, told LiveScience. The scientists' work was detailed in the Aug. 15 issue of the journal Science.

Yawnnnnnn

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9 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:
9 hours ago, Blue Crab said:

Yep. They should have risked their careers and said so and held the line against the corrupt civilian leadership, and brought their case to the people.  

When you see an unpopular and ineffective gov't, and given the task of "nation-building," you have to say "this ain't gonna work" early and often.

This. The military took an oath for us. But a whole bunch of top brass had their fingers crossed. The brass sucked political dick instead. Job security. Literally. There's a waiting period from when ya get out til when you can start sucking dick again. K Street was a red light district.... The whiteshoes moved.

Pompeo, first in his class at West Point.  He's one of them. De Santis too.  Flynn's shiny uniform comes to mind. Someway or another Kelly and others were mollified, and likely just bought off. 

"I don't want to get off on a rant here ... I could be wrong."

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2 minutes ago, Blue Crab said:

This. The military took an oath for us. But a whole bunch of top brass had their fingers crossed. The brass sucked political dick instead. Job security. Literally. There's a waiting period from when ya get out til when you can start sucking dick again. K Street was a red light district.... The whiteshoes moved.

Pompeo, first in his class at West Point.  He's one of them. De Santis too.  Flynn's shiny uniform comes to mind. Someway or another Kelly and others were mollified, and likely just bought off. 

"I don't want to get off on a rant here ... I could be wrong."

DeSantis just wants power and he will do or say anything to get it. He was Navy JAG. He was just checking a box on the way toward electoral office. 

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2 hours ago, bridhb said:

Wonder how much the former Prez of Afghanistan has stashed away in various safe places from all the money the USA has been pumping into that country for the last 20 years?

Karsai reportedly got more than $100M.  We delivered it in suitcases to him.

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2 minutes ago, Blue Crab said:

Sez a guy called FakeNews.

100M will buy that guy a lot of hair cuts and hats.

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DeSantis was a Navy JAG for a SEAL team in Iraq, you know, the country that didn't have anything to do with 9/11. His job was to rubber stamp everything LGTM. He got a Bronze Star for meritorious service which means he was above and beyond the call of duty at pushing papers.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/state-politics/article218804380.html

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5 minutes ago, Blue Crab said:

Wonder why we toss all this money at these fucks? Our elected officials do not have our best interests in mind. We need to fix that. 

Just think of the commission on that.

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