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2 hours ago, b green said:

Vettel in post crash interview= " it's the car"

For a moment I thought that Vettel hit the wall intentionally to ruin Hamilton's qualifying and lock him into fifteenth on the grid to protect Schumacher's record.  #conspiracytheories

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Only max is allowed to do that at the RBR?

I really thought when he started taking on that beast that it was just the sort of thing to distract him from his primary occupation. It seems to have done no such thing, and perhaps the opposite. He

The Mercedes twitter admin is a riot At least they can laugh at themselves. Although I know GR isnt laughing. MS

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After all the adversity in quali and almost missing q3 due to Vettel’s red flag... then be able to settle down and pull off that lap for pole, its hard to argue that its just about the car.

Good to see Sergio sending a message and Danny Ric too.

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2 hours ago, SCARECROW said:

I can’t believe some of the teams let Q2 get away from them.  Exit from the put should have been much slower and Hamilton forced to overtake everyone.  Red bull went out like a rocket and the max aborted his lap anyway.

Max was on softs and they made a gutsy call to abort the soft tire hot lap betting that his previous lap on mediums that had him in 8th at that time, I think) would be enough to get into Q3 and still allow him to start the race on mediums rather than softs.  The engineer that made that call was gutsy and had to be very confident in who would set a fast lap.  

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3 hours ago, Innocent Bystander said:

Max was on softs and they made a gutsy call to abort the soft tire hot lap betting that his previous lap on mediums that had him in 8th at that time, I think) would be enough to get into Q3 and still allow him to start the race on mediums rather than softs.  The engineer that made that call was gutsy and had to be very confident in who would set a fast lap.  

Without rewatching Max’s time was about 5th at the re-start.  Unless they were using max to give Alex a tow they should have  sent Alex out first hand had both take they’re time pulling out.  As long as they did get moving in “reasonable time” like the Alpha Tauris who hung back behind them they could have pretty much stopped half the other cars even getting a lap in most importantly including Hamilton.  
 

it’s going to be a weird race because about 6 of the top 10 are starting on tyres that are fucked and will be hoping for an early yellow flag so they can change to the hards then go long.  Trick with that is even in practice they were talking about how rough this track is getting and the hards aren’t actually very hard and might not go the length.  I wouldn’t be shocked to see Hamilton end up on a 2 stop strategy.  Especially if we get an early yellow flag so he can get a free tyre change then gap the fleet before need to change again to hunt Bottas down on old tyres at the end.

Given practice, grid and the tyres they’re taking into the start the result should be:

Bottas
Max
Lewis
Ricciardo

but I’m expecting to see Lewis-Bottas-any one of about 5 drivers.

 

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3 hours ago, SCARECROW said:

Without rewatching Max’s time was about 5th at the re-start.  Unless they were using max to give Alex a tow they should have  sent Alex out first hand had both take they’re time pulling out.  As long as they did get moving in “reasonable time” like the Alpha Tauris who hung back behind them they could have pretty much stopped half the other cars even getting a lap in most importantly including Hamilton.  
 

it’s going to be a weird race because about 6 of the top 10 are starting on tyres that are fucked and will be hoping for an early yellow flag so they can change to the hards then go long.  Trick with that is even in practice they were talking about how rough this track is getting and the hards aren’t actually very hard and might not go the length.  I wouldn’t be shocked to see Hamilton end up on a 2 stop strategy.  Especially if we get an early yellow flag so he can get a free tyre change then gap the fleet before need to change again to hunt Bottas down on old tyres at the end.

Given practice, grid and the tyres they’re taking into the start the result should be:

Bottas
Max
Lewis
Ricciardo

but I’m expecting to see Lewis-Bottas-any one of about 5 drivers.

 

Where’s Nelson Jr. when you need him?

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Renault engines have been really quick off the blocks since the engine settings rule came in.  With a pack of 4 from 5-8 eyeing off just two rows in front of them on a course that gives a good tow till the second corner and no grass for Daniel to overtake on this might be another fun first lap.

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14 hours ago, SCARECROW said:

Without rewatching Max’s time was about 5th at the re-start.  Unless they were using max to give Alex a tow they should have  sent Alex out first hand had both take they’re time pulling out.  As long as they did get moving in “reasonable time” like the Alpha Tauris who hung back behind them they could have pretty much stopped half the other cars even getting a lap in most importantly including Hamilton.  
 

it’s going to be a weird race because about 6 of the top 10 are starting on tyres that are fucked and will be hoping for an early yellow flag so they can change to the hards then go long.  Trick with that is even in practice they were talking about how rough this track is getting and the hards aren’t actually very hard and might not go the length.  I wouldn’t be shocked to see Hamilton end up on a 2 stop strategy.  Especially if we get an early yellow flag so he can get a free tyre change then gap the fleet before need to change again to hunt Bottas down on old tyres at the end.

Given practice, grid and the tyres they’re taking into the start the result should be:

Bottas
Max
Lewis
Ricciardo

but I’m expecting to see Lewis-Bottas-any one of about 5 drivers.

 

almost on spot...

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1 minute ago, SCARECROW said:

They never really showed us how Ricciardo lost 2 places just before the yellow flag came out.  Cost him third in the race.

it seems cyril will not get a tattoo in the next cople of weeks...

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1 minute ago, Trovão said:

it seems cyril will not get a tattoo in the next cople of weeks...

must be coming though he's firmly stamped himself as "the best of the rest" over the last few races.  Others get ahead every now and then but Dan just always seems to be there.  I can't help but think a couple of months at home on the farm at the start of the year during the "lock down" has really done him some good.

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5 hours ago, SCARECROW said:

must be coming though he's firmly stamped himself as "the best of the rest" over the last few races.  Others get ahead every now and then but Dan just always seems to be there.  I can't help but think a couple of months at home on the farm at the start of the year during the "lock down" has really done him some good.

Funny how different two years can make.  Haas and Renault going at it two years ago.  Now Haas is almost down to Williams level and Renault is leaping.  

Can't wait to see Alonso in a Renault again.

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2 hours ago, WCB said:

Can't wait to see Alonso in a Renault again.

There is a better than 50/50 chance that could back fire on both Alonso and Renault.

Does Alonso really still have it? If he can't beat Ocon he's just done a whole lot of damage to his rep. and Renault have wasted a lot of money.  Bigger risk for Renault, Alonso will Alonso be a world champ.

What Alonso does bring is what Daniel offers and that is enough experience to give engineers the feedback they need to develop the car.  Which is going to be super important come 2022.  Wonder who'll be his team mate Lundgaard or Piastri? 

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Just watched yesterday's highlights and was really impressed by Perez' move on Ricciardo on L15: wide line coming into the corner, early braking and hard turn in, but then straight lining the following kink and powering past the Renault - good racecraft there!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmZtTd1YRmA @ 2.40 in this video

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Alternatively it could be a new beginning.  I wonder how much tech Honda would sell.  I could see Red bull and someone like Gibson teaming up.

Wolfe was making a big thing earlier this year about Red Bull needing time bring engines in-house to go next level.

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Actually means interesting things for the driver market.

Tsunoda was always going to be a keep Honda happy promotion.  3rd in F2 doesn’t justify an F1 seat. Kvyat has been flagged by many for replacement. Do you look at one of the Ferrari Juniors (like Kvyat was) they might be interested given next year at least having a red engine will mean racing against Williams.  I can’t see any value for red bull in Hulkenberg or Perez.

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There were rumors of what Honda needed to do in the next rule change and what they would need to invest/receive for the money. For a lot of yeas, Honda has been an engine company with motorcycles, cars, lawn equipment, etc. hosting the brand. As the market inevitably moves from ICE to low carbon alternatives, Honda has to change their focus to alternative propulsion so,unions. Suspect the cost of a new F-1 engine didn’t make the cost/benefit cut in the current economy. If they want to continue in Formula series motor sports, they should probably consider Formula E.  

Much as I love the grown of a strong engine, my next car is likely to be an electric one. I’ll keep my toy S2000 until I die but the Macan S will get replaced with a plug in one day. 

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3 hours ago, b green said:

Honda is committed to Indy car....nice win by Will Power, fun to see them go through the infield....not quite F1

Based upon their F1 statements I’m guessing only until current contracts run out unless indy go green.

edit.  Sorry just read the stories new contract but doesn’t sound like it will cost them much R and D wise

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just thinking back on the engine thing.

in 2018 Red bull won 4 races with Renault engines

in 2019 they won 3 races with Honda engines

so far at half way through 2020 (Including Gasley) they've won 2 races and the Honda has been one of the least reliable engines on the grid.

aside from the way they burnt their bridges on the way out, is going back to Renault that big a deal?  It is not like they're being forced to fit a current spec Ferrari engine.
 

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On 10/5/2020 at 2:28 PM, SCARECROW said:

just thinking back on the engine thing.

in 2018 Red bull won 4 races with Renault engines

in 2019 they won 3 races with Honda engines

so far at half way through 2020 (Including Gasley) they've won 2 races and the Honda has been one of the least reliable engines on the grid.

aside from the way they burnt their bridges on the way out, is going back to Renault that big a deal?  It is not like they're being forced to fit a current spec Ferrari engine.
 

Glad someone pointed it out! I agree, both Webber and Ricciardo have admitted they were "nobbled".

After 6 races in 2018 Daniel  had won 2, Lewis 2 and Seb 2. 

Imagine if DR had kept that momentum up - imagine if RB hadn't put him behind MV in Baku, forcing him to overtake - again. Oh and which RB got 2 poles that year?

I used to like Christian Horner, but why wouldn't you encourage whomever is driving well?

To me there is no doubt they went backwards in 2019. And they panicked with co-driver.

Final point - who the f%$k has a race at Nurburgring in October?????

 

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2 hours ago, mccroc said:

Final point - who the f%$k has a race at Nurburgring in October?????

quite possibly no-one.  Although apparently they have found a halfway landing point for helicopters to stretch the weather window.

Just want to be first to say "Go the Hulk!" 

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Looking forward to tomorrows race!!  The last 2 weekends have dragged on, for sure!  And since the race is on at 8 AM, I can still go run a crash boat for Frostbite races at noon!  Now to watch Practice 3 on DVR on work computer!

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7 hours ago, mccroc said:

Final point - who the f%$k has a race at Nurburgring in October?????

5 hours ago, SCARECROW said:

quite possibly no-one.  Although apparently they have found a halfway landing point for helicopters to stretch the weather window.

Just want to be first to say "Go the Hulk!" 

 

It reminds me of racing in the Narragansett Bay in October. They decided to hold a Disabled sailing event, The Pre-Trials in 2006, because the date was open. I was sailing a 2.4mR
A mild NorEaster came in, the temp dropped to the mid 50's ,the wind was blowing and an opposing tide. The only sailors at home were those who lived in Wisconsin and the North East. I was shivering, sitting waist deep in water pumping out water that cam in faster and trying to sailing. It was impossible.

I'd rather be in an F1.

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I think we’re going to see another race with Leclerc dropping back through the fleet.  With minimal practice qualifying was based as much on drivers as cars but when you get into long run mode the balance shifts and the car becomes the important bit.

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Good onya Danny Ric

Another outstanding job by Hulk

quite an emotional moment on the podium.

With all the uncertainty about Toto, and now that LH has the record,  does he ride off into the sunset at seasons end?

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32 minutes ago, vibroman said:

Good onya Danny Ric

Another outstanding job by Hulk

quite an emotional moment on the podium.

With all the uncertainty about Toto, and now that LH has the record,  does he ride off into the sunset at seasons end?

 

Great race!  Too bad that 5 cars were out with breakdowns.  Is Toto leaving Mercedes??  Why, and to do what?

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10 hours ago, mathystuff said:

Good race pace by the Hülk.

Verstappen and Hamilton alone in F1.

Great win for Riccardo in F1.5.

Ferrari with bad luck in strategy again.

Sadly no rain to really mix things up.

I think the threat of rain mixed it up a little.  Teams that went early on the first yellow were starting to get nervous, teams that hung back for a full yellow or expecting rain left it too long.  Arguably didn't change the final result but did make it interesting.

I don't think it is fair to say Verstappen is racing in F1.  In truth he's in F1.25.  Red Bull have been blaming engine suppliers for performance for too long and started to believe their own story which lead to Newey heading off to play AC and work on the Valkyrie project etc.  In the mean time Mercedes continued to develop their whole car (DAS steering etc).

 

 

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7 hours ago, animeproblem said:

What the actual fuck has happened to ESPN"s race replay!! Halfway through & the channel is now showing one of Uncle Larry's goddamn tennis matches!

 

Nevermind, someone at ESPN must have hit the wrong button, we're back.

Word to the wise,  DVR the live broadcast at zero dark thirty,  and the preshow.

They show promos of some great looking Sky network specials we can't see, but would love to 

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Yes hulk friggin showed up for quali and gave it a go without flinging the car off the track and then Shepard the darn thing to decent finish when others were playing bumper cars and generally fumbling around. Always liked him. Super to see Ricci up towards the front. Lots of good racing outside P3. Sad to See Bottas out. Poor Norris had heartbreak after doing really well. Fun track. 

Yeah Max is in this zone by himself this year closer to Mercedes than anyone else. He is maturing and has been very consistent with almost no silly decisions. 

What can you say about Mercedes. A half second a lap in pure baseline performance of the car with excellent car prep and on track execution through the weekend. They've done the hard work and deserve the wins. 

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On 10/11/2020 at 9:23 AM, vibroman said:

Rumors continue to swirl.

he may  approaching burn out.

Hard to top his current achievements in the sport

And he was passed over for the FIA director or some role like that.

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What was up with Vettel's self own?  I wonder what this will mean for him at "Aston Martin".  I'm interested to see how that turns out.

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1 hour ago, billy backstay said:

I didn't see Ricciardo do the Shoey, with the champagne in his sweaty boot?

he claimed he forgot to... but i'm happy for him, i think he deserved a podium finish. 

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4th through 10th made the show worth watching.

 

4 hours ago, WCB said:

What was up with Vettel's self own?  I wonder what this will mean for him at "Aston Martin".  I'm interested to see how that turns out.

I still think something happened during the Italian Covid lock down. SV and Ferrari are not the same. 

 

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12 hours ago, Meat Wad said:

4th through 10th made the show worth watching.

 

I still think something happened during the Italian Covid lock down. SV and Ferrari are not the same. 

 

I thought Ferrari's poor performance was related to being caught bending the rules and having to remove some questionable mods.  As for Leclerc kicking Vettel's butt, that's partly Leclerc being good, but mostly on Seb driving poorly IMHO.   He has been performing poorly against teammates for a while.  For an experienced driver to be unable to get a setup that works for him suggests he has somehow lost it.  

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On 10/13/2020 at 2:27 PM, Sol Rosenberg said:

He more than deserved it.  He has been getting closer and closer....

 

Amazing how Renault has swapped places with Ferrari, and how far Racing Point has improved, under new ownership!

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10 hours ago, billy backstay said:

 and how far Racing Point has improved, under new ownership!

I've actually been a bit disappointed by Racing Point.  I don't think they're living up to their early season potential.  Once the photocopier was unplugged the development seems to have ground to a halt and internal politics are only going to become more of an issue as the season progresses.  Especially if Perez does actually land a ride at HAAS and they feel insecure enough to need to lock him out of development conversations. 

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5 hours ago, SCARECROW said:

I've actually been a bit disappointed by Racing Point.  I don't think they're living up to their early season potential.  Once the photocopier was unplugged the development seems to have ground to a halt and internal politics are only going to become more of an issue as the season progresses.  Especially if Perez does actually land a ride at HAAS and they feel insecure enough to need to lock him out of development conversations. 

 

That being said, how do you explain their much better results since the ownership change?

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Enough money to run a team rather than constantly making do and a willingness to put enough ego aside to learn from others.  McLaren and Williams have been held back in modern times by their refusal to be seen as customer teams and trying to make everything except power units themselves.

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2 hours ago, billy backstay said:

It's at the  Portimão Circuit, not Estoril.  Wonder who Hulk is going to drive for this week?!  

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49 minutes ago, silent bob said:

It's at the  Portimão Circuit, not Estoril.  Wonder who Hulk is going to drive for this week?!  

I recognized that it's not Estoril, and I may have never seen a race on that course, but diagram looks like it will be very good!!

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Haas have told both their drivers they won't be needed next year.  Any bets on the new line up? 

Perez - Ilott

Perez - Schumacher

Hulk - Ilott

Hulk - Schumacher

Ilott - Schumacher (that would take guts)

Perez - Hulk would piss of Ferrari but might be helpful in developing new 2022 car.

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48 minutes ago, SCARECROW said:

Haas have told both their drivers they won't be needed next year.  Any bets on the new line up? 

Perez - Ilott

Perez - Schumacher

Hulk - Ilott

Hulk - Schumacher

Ilott - Schumacher (that would take guts)

Perez - Hulk would piss of Ferrari but might be helpful in developing new 2022 car.

add mazepin to the list he comes with money like Perez would

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14 minutes ago, vibroman said:

add mazepin to the list he comes with money like Perez would

I thought about it but you’d have to question your motivation in owning a team if you picked the guy coming 6th in F2 just ‘cause dad’s got cash.  If Mazepin wants to race F1 dad should have bought Williams when it was going cheap.  

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1 hour ago, vibroman said:

It's also expensive to keep repairing cars that especially Grosjean keeps breaking 

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1 hour ago, WCB said:

It's also expensive to keep repairing cars that especially Grosjean keeps breaking 

Remember Mansell in 1980 through late 1985?  So much promise, but so little results.  I have to give Colin Chapman and Frank Williams credit for hanging on to this hapless looser (at the time!).  I think RG and KM are fine drivers.  It’s a lot tougher now, with only 20 seats on the grid, and the cars not being as close to equal as in the past. Breaking cars isn’t as expensive as not having drivers pay for their seats. Having Checo and the Russian pay to drive and come in last is a lot more affordable. I don’t agree with this view, but it is what it is!

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On 10/22/2020 at 5:07 AM, SCARECROW said:

I thought about it but you’d have to question your motivation in owning a team if you picked the guy coming 6th in F2 just ‘cause dad’s got cash.  If Mazepin wants to race F1 dad should have bought Williams when it was going cheap.  

 

On 10/22/2020 at 5:07 AM, SCARECROW said:

I thought about it but you’d have to question your motivation in owning a team if you picked the guy coming 6th in F2 just ‘cause dad’s got cash.  If Mazepin wants to race F1 dad should have bought Williams when it was going cheap.  

F1 revenues are way down because they are not doing flyaways, so the teams slice of the pie is going to be much smaller, which is why RG is saying it’s a budget deal.

So I’m betting it’s Mick S as Ferrari’s #1 pick gets the nod and Haas gets a better deal on engines and parts, and they get a big check from Mr Marzepin to get his kid in a car, in a team he might buy in the future when GH figures out he’s had enough of spending $100M a year to not win races or feature in the top ten..

The team will probably have similar results in 21 as they are having this year and hope for it all to come good with the big changes in 22..

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If that's the plan then a lot of people are going to be watching the last couple of F2 rounds very closely.  Marzepin, doesn't have enough points on his licence to drive F1 and needs to finish in the top 5 to get them.  He's currently equal 5th on points and the way I read the table it appears possibly 6th on count back (not sure how that works in car racing).

There is plenty of cash available with Perez as a driver and you get feedback on car development. 

I wonder if Ferrari would prefer Schumacher to be with HAAS or ALFA.  I can't help but think he'd learn more driving along side Raikkonen than most of the other options.

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Darn!!   I missed Lewis final lap!  Because they started late, my DVR stopped before  completion.  Must remember to always record and extra 30 minutes.  How much was Bottas behind him at the end??

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44 minutes ago, billy backstay said:

Darn!!   I missed Lewis final lap!  Because they started late, my DVR stopped before  completion.  Must remember to always record and extra 30 minutes.  How much was Bottas behind him at the end??

0.102 

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A very tight top 5, less than half a second between them.

1  Lewis HAMILTON Mercedes

1:16.652
2  Valtteri BOTTAS Mercedes 1:16.754
3  Max VERSTAPPEN Red Bull Racing 1:16.904
4  Charles LECLERC Ferrari 1:17.090
5  Sergio PEREZ Racing Point 1:17.223
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5 minutes ago, Terrorvision said:

A very tight top 5, less than half a second between them.

1  Lewis HAMILTON Mercedes

1:16.652
2  Valtteri BOTTAS Mercedes 1:16.754
3  Max VERSTAPPEN Red Bull Racing 1:16.904
4  Charles LECLERC Ferrari 1:17.090
5  Sergio PEREZ Racing Point 1:17.223

 

Wow!!  Only a half a tenth a second between 1 and 5!  Looks like a difficult track for passing?

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7 hours ago, billy backstay said:

 

Wow!!  Only a half a tenth a second between 1 and 5!  Looks like a difficult track for passing?

That is a half second, not half a tenth.  

More telling was that both Mercs were on mediums and the rest on soft.  So in reality, Mercs are probably a full second faster than everyone else.

 

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Mediums in q3 was an interesting call given they're given and extra set of softs just for qualifying and its the tires they use in Q2 they have to start with.  The only reason to run on mediums in q3 is if you think they're faster or if you're saving extra softs for the race.  Surely Mercedes aren't planning around a 3 stop race.

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51 minutes ago, Rain Man said:

Gasly was on fire.  Vettel needs to take up macrame.  

Will be interesting next year to see who realises they’ve wasted money on a big name has been first.  Aston Martin or Renault.  I wonder how long their contracts are?

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5 hours ago, SCARECROW said:

Mediums in q3 was an interesting call given they're given and extra set of softs just for qualifying and its the tires they use in Q2 they have to start with.  The only reason to run on mediums in q3 is if you think they're faster or if you're saving extra softs for the race.  Surely Mercedes aren't planning around a 3 stop race.

By all accounts they thought they were quicker  than the softs. They were having trouble switching the front and rear softs on at the same time. Even meds were tricky hence LH’s pace on 2nd flying lap.

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2 hours ago, SCARECROW said:

Will be interesting next year to see who realises they’ve wasted money on a big name has been first.  Aston Martin or Renault.  I wonder how long their contracts are?

Vettel has always needed a car set up a certain way... (stable rear or bitey front) I dont remember. Ferrari probably  have car designed  for Leclerc with opposite set up. Combined with vettel demotivated wysiwyg. Alonso can drive the wheels off anything but can the team survive the flavio induced politics.

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8 hours ago, captnjoe said:

That is a half second, not half a tenth.  

More telling was that both Mercs were on mediums and the rest on soft.  So in reality, Mercs are probably a full second faster than everyone else.

 

Thanks for the correction!  Yes, I was gobsmacked that the Mercs were faster on Mediums than others on softs, which are supposed to be a second or more faster!! 

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Gasly and Perez, racers of the day behind Lewis who just plain proved why he has 92 wins. Dominant control of the race and of his tire temps and wear. Lewis did a better job of setting up his car for the race and Bottas just never got his tire management worked out. Like Bottas, Vettel never got the tires working correctly but his head is not in it and I don't know why they keep him in the car.

How Gasly and Russell aren't with bigger teams next year is head scratcher. Friggin Russell wrings the neck of that Williams for the entire race as well as races for every position like he's in the lead. Perez is without a drive right now. Haas is rumored to be looking at Mick Schumacher and Mazepin from GP2 but they should hire Perez to have a veteran to help a newbie. I guess Gasly is slighly rumored for a Renault seat but Hulk is still in the wings. I would go for Gasly no question.

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4 hours ago, billy backstay said:

2021 technical regs changes.....

 

 

If that is what they look like, that is cool.

I can't wait to see the new Ferrari power plant with Sainz and Leclerc in the cockpits.

I liked that Portugal Track

 

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That's the 2022 car.  Rules were pushed back 12 months because of Covid.

2021 Cars are this year's model with tapered floor aft to reduce down force and a maximum of "2 Upgrades" 

Because of the way the rules and negotiation went Mclaren have to use both their "upgrade tokens" to install the previously contracted switch to Merc engines but Racing point can change their whole gearbox/rear suspension over to what Mercedes are currently using without using any of theirs.  Ferrari have said they'll be upgrading the back or their car.

Everyone gets to put in new spec engines.

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6 hours ago, SCARECROW said:

That's the 2022 car.  Rules were pushed back 12 months because of Covid.

2021 Cars are this year's model with tapered floor aft to reduce down force and a maximum of "2 Upgrades" 

Because of the way the rules and negotiation went Mclaren have to use both their "upgrade tokens" to install the previously contracted switch to Merc engines but Racing point can change their whole gearbox/rear suspension over to what Mercedes are currently using without using any of theirs.  Ferrari have said they'll be upgrading the back or their car.

Everyone gets to put in new spec engines.

 

Thanks for the clarification!  But, I am disappointed, as this new car spec looks very exciting.

I have said this before, I am no Lewis Hamilton Fanboy; but the naysayers here have to admit that he's set a new all time race win record, and he is always shows deference to, respect and appreciation to Mercedes and all their team members...

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