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Dehler 30 OD price?


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12 hours ago, mpbeagle said:

Agree with comments about the sleeping and lee cloths.  Funny though-obviously JL92 you know what you are doing and have been around the "island(s)" a few times ;-) but I use the cleats all the time for lashing down items (and rarely find they get in the way) and find the saltwater pump really helps save on valuable freshwater.  Guess thats why they make different boat designs! The 30D does have a stove but its not gimballed (for now).  Ironic that a transatlantic race requires mooring cleats.

Stern cleats not so bad but the bow cleats seem to love catching spinnaker tapes, jib foot, spinnaker sheets, pole downhaul etc. It’s really odd that the Dehler stove doesn’t gimbal!? The Transquadra has a few rules like that such as quantity and specification of mooring lines, minimum number of fenders and a couple of others. 
 

if you think the Dehler lacks luxury you should see the inside of a Figaro 3!

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On 5/6/2020 at 3:53 AM, Snowden said:

I think that's just the usual hull #001 stuff that gets fixed by the factory and local dealers in the first year or so.

Ehhh no they’ve been delivering them and showing them that way in the boat shows too. 
 

I just thought there was a good team behind the hull/boat - but some early indications re they didn’t think it thru like aluminum fin, or electric drive - came back down to earth. 
 

they talked about how they spent a lot of time sailing a Pogo 30 owned by one of the collaborating charters and wanted to make something fun like it - then handed interior design to a rookie. 
 

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On 4/22/2020 at 8:08 PM, Matagi said:

I really, really doubt that the Dehler will ever sail to its rating.

Now, if that's not what you're after, if you just want to be the guy who stole Vegvisir or Silverrudder, than that's fine with me and I understand that. And it is a good looking, well-engineered boat. But don't come crying, if someone in a not-so-much modified Farr 280 or -God forbid- an Esse 850 comes thundering by you. Because these two stole it last year.

You see, I love new boats, and new designs. And this Judel/Vrolijk design is engineering at its best. But to what specification? I'm by job definition dealing with finding value and efficiency potential and comparing options to meet specs. And I don't see the edge here, and I picked the 960 as a prime example. Because they sail to their rating and way beyond their present value.

This new kid rather looks to me to appeal to the MAMIL kind of guy (like me). It's a cyclist term for middle aged men in lycra. Always very bling bikes, very expensive apparel, carbon here, carbon there. And 20% body fat and an FTP of 200. And no time to find efficiency and value in training and nutrition. 

I think that if you CAN sail really fast, than you will make this boat really, really fast. But I fear that most of the target audience is not really up to the task, let alone sailing it to its rating. Just look at the start of the Silverrudder 2018, most starters were absolutely overwhelmed with -in my view- strong but not threatening conditions.  can hardly see any of them moving to the bow to reef the jib (because yes, this is how this jib is designed, you reef it. Like the mainsail). 

It's a weapon. But can you shot at 1.054 or higher (or even higher to beat that)? Because if you can: there is a probably a Figaro 3 waiting for you.

 

 

You cannot compare Ess850 or Farr 280 with offshore boats like Figaro 3, Dehler 30OD, SF3600, Pogo 30, etc.

MAMIL type group is a good example that every company aims for selling more. Nowadays I see more and more comfort-oriented yachts that are only getting bigger.  Dehler 30OD combines sport and comfort that appeals to most people. Figaro 3 is too unpolished and it would be weird to cruise /race in smaller races when it would love some transatlantic/ hard weather beating instead. 

Again, look what types of races the boats are aimed for. Not focusing purely on speed. In longer races you gain more time with some comfort. I ride expensive Pro-tour bike with tubular wheels Zip 404, Campagnolo carbon and I dont race. But OMG, it is so comfortable and speedy :o 

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On 4/22/2020 at 8:08 PM, Matagi said:

I really, really doubt that the Dehler will ever sail to its rating.

Now, if that's not what you're after, if you just want to be the guy who stole Vegvisir or Silverrudder, than that's fine with me and I understand that. And it is a good looking, well-engineered boat. But don't come crying, if someone in a not-so-much modified Farr 280 or -God forbid- an Esse 850 comes thundering by you. Because these two stole it last year.

You see, I love new boats, and new designs. And this Judel/Vrolijk design is engineering at its best. But to what specification? I'm by job definition dealing with finding value and efficiency potential and comparing options to meet specs. And I don't see the edge here, and I picked the 960 as a prime example. Because they sail to their rating and way beyond their present value.

This new kid rather looks to me to appeal to the MAMIL kind of guy (like me). It's a cyclist term for middle aged men in lycra. Always very bling bikes, very expensive apparel, carbon here, carbon there. And 20% body fat and an FTP of 200. And no time to find efficiency and value in training and nutrition. 

I think that if you CAN sail really fast, than you will make this boat really, really fast. But I fear that most of the target audience is not really up to the task, let alone sailing it to its rating. Just look at the start of the Silverrudder 2018, most starters were absolutely overwhelmed with -in my view- strong but not threatening conditions.  can hardly see any of them moving to the bow to reef the jib (because yes, this is how this jib is designed, you reef it. Like the mainsail). 

It's a weapon. But can you shot at 1.054 or higher (or even higher to beat that)? Because if you can: there is a probably a Figaro 3 waiting for you.

 

 

You cannot compare Ess850 or Farr 280 with offshore boats like Figaro 3, Dehler 30OD, SF3600, Pogo 30, etc.

MAMIL type group is a good example that every company aims for selling more. Nowadays I see more and more comfort-oriented yachts that are only getting bigger.  Dehler 30OD combines sport and comfort that appeals to most people. Figaro 3 is too unpolished and it would be weird to cruise /race in smaller races when it would love some transatlantic/ hard weather beating instead. 

Again, look what types of races the boats are aimed for. Not focusing purely on speed. In longer races you gain more time with some comfort. I ride expensive Pro-tour bike with tubular wheels Zip 404, Campagnolo carbon and I dont race. But OMG, it is so comfortable and speedy :o 

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16 hours ago, Some.Rando said:

Is anyone else watching the Baltic 500? It looks like the two Dehler 30's are out in front. I asked the organizers if the Dehler 30 OD class started first, but haven't heard back from them yet. 

https://event.gps-live-tracking.com/baltic-500/

Sailing instrictions says: "Start for Classemini, Dehler 30od and yardstick 21.05.2020 10:00 Start for ORC classes 21.05.2020 10:30"

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32 minutes ago, Matagi said:

Even more striking is, how much they have distanced the JPK 10.80, two of them and both of the Dehler's. That is massively impressive. 

DWINGER the SF36 and HINDEN the JPK 1010 are closer but I think both would come out slower on a VPP anyway.

Has anyone seen an ORC rating for the Dehler? 

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If you use IRC ratings as a comparison a typical SF3600 and 1080 would be 1.042-1.045, a 1010 could be 1.000 - 1.010 and the Dehler 30 trial rating came in at 1.075 - 1.080

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3 hours ago, Matagi said:

Even more striking is, how much they have distanced the JPK 10.80, two of them and both of the Dehler's. That is massively impressive. 

It is all coordinated marketing - the big yards all do this. 

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Power Play has been in a dominant position the entire race. I really wish we could get stats like wind speed & direction as well as boat speed (you can apparently see boat speed if you hover your cursor over the boat). Here's a couple shots from onboard the "CrazyBoats" Dehler 30 that I swiped from Facebook. 

Bastic500.jpg

Baltic500_2.jpg

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18 minutes ago, Matagi said:

Any word on what's up with Red? Turning around or did I miss something regarding the course?

I was wondering the same thing, so I sent a message to the race organizers. Red has retired. 

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It looks like Calle is bouncing back from a blown Code 0 nicely. They've been averaging double digits for the last couple of hours and have been closing in fast on Power Play. These boats are FAST! It looks like the two D30's are in the overall lead. 

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Those Dehlers are really keeping the pace up.

I'm curious about what tactic the boats are going to choose after they've rounded Læsø. The wind is forecasted to stay in the south until the morning, but almost divided by low wind speeds towards the coast of Jutland and a lot more wind towards the coast of Sweden during the night, with winds picking up again overall and turning from south to west around midday tomorrow.

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5 minutes ago, Misbehavin' said:

Did they tell you why they retired?

image.thumb.png.4baeba94cddc0ed68e85f94547bc6d91.png

This is all I got. Maybe they were scared off by the conditions. 50 knots is definitely conditions to take seriously, but I'm guessing there was more to the story than just nerves. 

 

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Will be very interesting to see how this race plays out once Laesö is rounded. The larger boats like Edelweiss and Lavinia will catch up, while the frontrunners might park in the calm. Tomorrow, it might basically be upwind and rather a question of waterline which should favour the larger, narrower boats. Currently, my money is on Edelweiss to play a major role in the end. That is one tall rig.

47319ec4d7291a33afab1664499351ba02d7dbb6

 

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Milou is a JPK 10.80 that has been towards the front of the ORC fleet all race. Those exact boats have won a lot of distance races, so I think the designer has done a pretty good job of balancing upwind and downwind performance. If I were betting on the ORC fleet, she's got my money. Black Pearl (Pogo 40) is doing well now, but I think that her advantage will dry up when they have to start beating upwind again. 

That said, the D30's have been performing extremely well in light upwind conditions and absolutely dominating downwind. This sure is fun to watch. I'm really looking forward to the 2024 Olympics. 

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I see that the Pogo 40 Black Pearl finished first, followed by the 30OD Power Play. I haven't been able to follow the race since this morning, but the other 30OD tumbled down a lot of places. Anybody know what happened?

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A close finish,..... especially for Power Play.  with being only seconds behind the JPK    The winner was the Pogo 40...

         The second Dehler was a bunch of place behind......so the L30 and the Seascape 27 and Jeaneau  have some new competition. 

sorry for the belated post. .. but a good showing in a range of conditions

 

 

 

99431242_2684890728462193_1022830372594909184_o.jpg

99384578_2684970788454187_1185587428132388864_o.jpg

100942314_2685112615106671_7593224118850289664_o.jpg

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Nice pics, thanks. Main competition will obviously be the larger JPK, the L30 only maybe. The crack in the hull that led to Sharifas DNF made me shudder... Seascape 27 are probably a bit too slow and small, the difference was striking. Eould love to see the OD against a Fareast or the Farr 280

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11 hours ago, Matagi said:

Nice pics, thanks. Main competition will obviously be the larger JPK, the L30 only maybe. The crack in the hull that led to Sharifas DNF made me shudder... Seascape 27 are probably a bit too slow and small, the difference was striking. Eould love to see the OD against a Fareast or the Farr 280

Please fill me in on the cracked hull, I haven't heard of that. What happened?

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On 4/10/2020 at 12:28 PM, marcus brutus said:

Of course you could not have picked more inopportune time to first purchase the J/111 before attempting to market the J/120 at an unrealistic asking price that has resulted in your promotion to Admiral of the Fleet with a short haircut.

Oopsie. It turns out we bought a boat before the mad rush on recreational boats and RV's and sold a boat in just 3 months during the peak.  Who would've thunk?  And we've been able to race our new boat about 30 times since May 1st, almost exclusively DH, since DH is now the socially distant way to race.  The new boat is an absolute blast to sail too.  Better than we hoped.  Boy did we mess that one up...

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  • 3 weeks later...

Who else is planning on watching the SilverRudder tomorrow? https://www.silverrudder.com/?Live

I know that the Dehler 30 OD was designed specifically for this race, and that becomes clear when you see that it's the biggest boat in the Small Keelboat class. Furthermore, it's rigged to perform well in the light wind that's predicted by my various weather apps, so I'm eager to see how it performs. 

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Yeah, they were doing really well up until Snoghøj, then the wind died and anchors were needed. The fastest Dehler 30's seemed to be able to maintain a 1-1.5 knot advantage over the rest of the small keelboat field... while there was enough wind for sailing. You know it's going to be a tough sailing race when an anchor is critical kit. 

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15 hours ago, Black Jack said:

Not much wind at Silverrudder. The OD30 seems to do ok in the the light airs considering.

 

I can asure you it's ok'ish, but as I said before: you need to be able to drive it. The first and the last 30OD were world's apart.  Put me on a Colnago, I still don't beat Roglic...

Then again, there was absolutely no wind all days.

Still, that ancient heavy One-tonner kept up well and had some of the ODs even behind, in the end many did not make the time cut. 

That snapshot was around midday Saturday, both stuck on the NW corner of Fyn, ca. 2nm apart after > 20 hours of racing.

coriolis.jpg

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First D30 in New Zealand now floating. I went for a wander past. Looks pretty tidy and like the fixed hatch dodger set up. Knowing NZ sailors I bet a second set of pad eyes gets put on to enable a bigger jib for the rum races.

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4 hours ago, huey 2 said:

This boat prototype is in construction and does not actually exist. Posting this boat is a shill for an advertisement. How many times will this vapor boat be promoted on SA and not pay for ad space?

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1 hour ago, Black Jack said:

This boat prototype is in construction and does not actually exist. Posting this boat is a shill for an advertisement. How many times will this vapor boat be promoted on SA and not pay for ad space?

I am still not convinced you will be able to enter the P30 in Cat 2 offshore races like the Fastnet / Syd-Hobart despite the builder's claims of Cat A compliance. It'll be fun for things like Silverrudder / Channel races though.

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40 minutes ago, Snowden said:

I am still not convinced you will be able to enter the P30 in Cat 2 offshore races like the Fastnet / Syd-Hobart despite the builder's claims of Cat A compliance. It'll be fun for things like Silverrudder / Channel races though.

How fast do you think the mold will rate?  Because there is no boat and a lot of untested blow hards talking a lot of shit, showing only concept pictures and good chance will not be able to support the build if ever.

https://18fd50b1-4340-4b00-9434-fb158973e7c1.filesusr.com/ugd/9c36af_90e1a4b8c0b349818e9233560da44f3b.pdf

2129592428_ScreenShot2021-07-06at12_19_51PM.thumb.png.21cdc0b28e2c080a7b0ac9bf602cd327.png

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28 minutes ago, Black Jack said:

How fast do you think the mold will rate?  Because there is no boat and a lot of untested blow hards talking a lot of shit, showing only concept pictures and good chance will not be able to support the build if ever.

No idea but he claims to have something like 4 prospective owners willing to put down €100k to find out...

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30 minutes ago, Snowden said:

No idea but he claims to have something like 4 prospective owners willing to put down €100k to find out...

Anyone can make a marketing claim.  Doesn't mean it is always true.

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Have been fortunate to go for a few sails on the Dehler 30 just launched in little ol' NZ. 

She goes good, 15-17 knots with the A2 in 18-22 knots of breeze is the best ride so far so she's quick.  Gimballed stoves aside it's the most fun I've had on a keelboat for a long time - very comfortable cockpit to work in. 

Some footage here from a local 'Boating NZ' feature: https://youtu.be/igdslW0RF6E

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On 7/7/2021 at 7:44 AM, dolphinmaster said:

Just reviewed the entry list for the upcoming Fastnet and no D30OD listed. :(  Anyone know the phrf rating?

Crickets, both to my question and the Aegean 600 with two sailing.  What say ye Euro Hero's that are close by, any news?

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On 7/7/2021 at 1:44 PM, dolphinmaster said:

Just reviewed the entry list for the upcoming Fastnet and no D30OD listed. :(  Anyone know the phrf rating?

My guess is: not eligible due to hull length.

Minimum for Fastnet is 9.15 m

Dehler 30 OD is 9.14 m (IRC ratings even show 9.12 m).

 

I wonder if they did that on purpose. How could you overlook that otherwise in the requirements phase of the project???

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4 hours ago, Matagi said:

Minimum for Fastnet is 9.15 m

Assuming your source is this table (https://www.rolexfastnetrace.com/en/40-competitors/race-documents/guide/485-a-guide-for-entrants-previous-experience) you are misreading it. The min length of 9.15m applies to multis only. 
 

There are usually a few sub 30 footers competing including old half tonners and the like. 
 

I would be hugely surprised if the 30OD (and the Farr X2 which is also 30ft LOA) are not eligible. They just haven’t sold any in the UK (or France) from what I can see. The UK Dehler network hasn’t sold a racing boat in years, it’s only the speedsailing guys in Rostock that have had traction with it. 

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19 minutes ago, Snowden said:

Assuming your source is this table (https://www.rolexfastnetrace.com/en/40-competitors/race-documents/guide/485-a-guide-for-entrants-previous-experience) you are misreading it. The min length of 9.15m applies to multis only. 
 

There are usually a few sub 30 footers competing including old half tonners and the like. 
 

I would be hugely surprised if the 30OD (and the Farr X2 which is also 30ft LOA) are not eligible. They just haven’t sold any in the UK (or France) from what I can see. The UK Dehler network hasn’t sold a racing boat in years, it’s only the speedsailing guys in Rostock that have had traction with it. 

I misread that, true, sorry. I think that used to apply also for monos until some years ago, no?

However, there have been no finishers that small in the last editions, as far as I've seen. The smallest were the likes of Archambault A31 (very good results) and JPK 9.60 (first Foggy Dew), and a Humphrey 30 (not sure about entrants, though). I could possibly see a Corby 29 as an eligible entrant, but to my knowledge that hasn't been done so far. A Whitbread 30, maybe?

Looking at the specs for the Dehler 30OD and an A31, you see that these are two different animals. Probably, it is also a rating issue.  I think the Dehler 30 OD features basically all the essential IRC no-nos and will hardly win anything under IRC handicap.

Don't get me wrong, I think that the Dehler is a fun boat, but as far as results go, I'm not as convinced as the marketing would have me believe and not surprised that Channel sailors from UK/France have not jumped on the train. 

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I had not seen that, thanks.

That must be one of the smallest entrants in recent race history. 

I love the J/88, I am surprised to see that it may have more stability than the 30OD per the (few) ORC ratings. But bringing one to the Fastnet... I don't know. Ratingwise, it seems a lost cause. Rates the same as an A35 and a J/99? Must be a 'bucket list' thing...

Owner is an experienced Fastnet entrant, so...

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@JL92S of this parish can probably give you the lowdown on the J/88 entry - the owner is running a youth 2H program: Excellent idea if you ask me, wish it had been around 10 years ago when I was a “youth”. 
 

I think the Silver Shamrock guys finished a few rounds ago, that’s a small half tonner, and I suspect Corby 29s have as well. 

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So the J88 entry in the fastnet surprises me greatly because the J88 doesn’t meet STIX requirements for cat 2 racing, believe me I’ve looked into doing it and it doesn’t work. The only way I see it as possible is if rorc were prepared to make a special exception for this one entry but again I struggle to see that because the crew of Jumunu have probably only sailed their boat 5 times in the last 4 years. The other option is that I know the owner has ordered a brand new Sunfast 3600 which will carry the same name and they entered in case the boat arrives on time. the Jumunu entry is different to Tigris that has been doing the youth program, it was intended that a different under 25 pair could do each round of the UK double handed championships with the exception of the fastnet. I was supposed to do the St Malo race this weekend (although sadly I miss out on the U25 rule now!) but testing positive for covid last week has stopped that! 
 

as for the other entry based questions going on. Rorc has no minimum length for a mono hull, only minimum irc handicap (which I think might be 0.850 but could be wrong), this is different to multihulls where there is the 30ft minimum length. Something that I think might be playing a part in no Dehler 30 entries is the that the UK is still essentially closed to visiting yachts so any overseas entry basically has to sail to the start line and start the race from wherever their last port was. Also the D30 would probably struggle in the mixed irc fleet. Even the Figaro 3s tend to get beaten over the water by the odd sunfast 3300 or JpK 1030 despite the 90 point handicap difference so a Dehler 30 might find it tough too but then again the majority of boats racing are there for the race anyway rather than winning classes 

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9 hours ago, JL92S said:

So the J88 entry in the fastnet surprises me greatly because the J88 doesn’t meet STIX requirements for cat 2 racing, believe me I’ve looked into doing it and it doesn’t work.

stixj88.jpg.2349784e94a709603996d97647367954.jpg

https://jowners.org/images/docs/j88/J88 Owner Manual Combined 7-14-15.pdf

True, STIX of 32 is necessary as a minimum. 

Hm...  How does STIX change with, say, making a boat insubmersible? If you basically fill any last bit with foam, would that increase the STIX to an acceptable level?

 

Btw: get well soon.

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