Jump to content

Recommended Posts

7 minutes ago, BravoBravo said:

You too... I have taken this very seriously, hence this thread . I have everything other than the guns and ammo I had in a cart at Cheaper than Dirt... I would have had to order them in my wife’s name, now I wish I had. My saying you folks just don’t get it was referring to DJT next 3 November... I think the large population in general don’t blame him for the Chinese virus ravaging this country. NY is projected to have several days soon of 800 + - deaths... the down side of the bulge is just as bad as the upside. I compare this to pre hurricane we know it’s coming but the storm hasn’t hit and the reality on the other side is unknown but devastating 

I don't know who blames what, but I know what the graphs and charts show, and team USA fucked up but good.  

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 4k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Hi ya'll. Well this is a son of a bitch. I've weathered a lot of shit and discomfort in my life but this is a MF.....and I would classify my case as moderate. I can't imagine those who become critical

Well...............after two pretty shitty days....not as shitty as the first round mind you, but still pretty shitty.....with the exact same symptoms but less intense, today I feel better. Not 100% b

To help with any confusion from the update today. The Rules: 1. Basically, you can't leave the house for any reason, but if you have to, then you can. 2. Masks are useless, but maybe yo

Posted Images

2 minutes ago, billy backstay said:

The Daily Caller is a right-wing news and opinion website based in Washington, D.C. It was founded by now Fox News host Tucker Carlson and political pundit Neil Patel in 2010. Wikipedia

Florida as of yesterday 31 March

Screenshot (8).png

Link to post
Share on other sites

I appreciate your knowledge on many issues, but how did we fuck up big time? Really i am surprised as many people are following the stay at home orders in the USA where we are not used to listening to others and against our constitutional rights. This is not a totalitarian country such as China which does not have the same liberties as us. The hardest hit states are mostly run by democrats and so are the largest cities. is it their fault? Cuomo early on tried to quarantine the area around WestChester and is complaining about Rhode Island.

 This is unprecedented. Not HIV, SARS. MERS, H1N1 ever shut the country down like this. Before HIV it was not common to wear gloves when examining patients. Viruses are not bacteria and are much harder to treat. Mostly symptom alleviation. Look how long it took to get some therapy for HIV. We still can't cure the common cold.

When i don a PAPR or N95 mask and goggles and see or operate on an infected patient or worse yet see a new patient in the ED who have no idea if they have it or not, i worry more about bringing it home. It has been shown to be in the smoke after laparoscopic operations.

Want to blame someone. Can't stand seeing the insurance company execs telling us how to be safe and the big malpractice attorneys saying they are here for there clients. If these leeches weren't sucking money away from the hospitals we would be better off and better stocked. There was a big stink when Hahnemann closed in Philadelphia. Called a "safety net hospital." Sanders came and rattled his sword. Basically means they were being reimbursed pennies on the dollar by medicaid insurances and no pays.  

Like any disaster this will be dissected and examined for ways to improve. This is really an unique phenomenon. We have had many drills for mass casualties locally and even nationally, never have i seen any plans for a two month quarantine. 

The best leaders and workers where i work have been calm and controlled and  have based along information. Stirring the shit and finger pointing has not helped

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, burndoc said:

I appreciate your knowledge on many issues, but how did we fuck up big time? Really i am surprised as many people are following the stay at home orders in the USA where we are not used to listening to others and against our constitutional rights. This is not a totalitarian country such as China which does not have the same liberties as us. The hardest hit states are mostly run by democrats and so are the largest cities. is it their fault? Cuomo early on tried to quarantine the area around WestChester and is complaining about Rhode Island.

Most of the fuckups have to do with the complete dysfunctionality of the federal government. 

Yes, no one has seen anything quite like this.

No, the fact that it is 'unprecedented' does not excuse the richest and most medically advanced country in the world from being the worldwide leader in cases and death.  We had plans.  We had programs.  They were defunded and ignored.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Most of the fuckups have to do with the complete dysfunctionality of the federal government.

Yes, no one has seen anything quite like this.

No, the fact that it is 'unprecedented' does not excuse the richest and most medically advanced country in the world from being the worldwide leader in cases and death.  We had plans.  We had programs.  They were defunded and ignored.

Yet you want to give them more Progressives

defunded because they were redundant 

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Most of the fuckups have to do with the complete dysfunctionality of the federal government. 

Yes, no one has seen anything quite like this.

No, the fact that it is 'unprecedented' does not excuse the richest and most medically advanced country in the world from being the worldwide leader in cases and death.  We had plans.  We had programs.  They were defunded and ignored.

You see, it's all a misunderstanding.

Of course it isn't unprecedented.  There have been many pandemics throughout history that were far more devastating.  The most recent being the Spanish flu pandemic of 1918.

What is going on with this pandemic is unpresidented.  

See the difference?

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Masks...........the jury is still out for good reasons. However, there is an "very active" discussion (according to Fauci) by the experts(link below). A number of very coherent reasons for the question. There is some thought that the general wearing of masks contributed to China flattening the trajectory of the pandemic curve. The head Doc in China (not sure his title) said US is making mistake not requiring the wearing of masks by everybody. On balance its not proven to be very effective but it is likely a little effective. Lots of reasons to question it.....over the years I have worn just such masks at work long before there were N95 masks and the current N95 masks, just as the post above mentioned there is a whole fit process that during the training in our agency (which was required annually) a scented spray was used to see if you had a good fit after thinking you did it correctly. You'd be surprised how often - even with the training - it took several efforts to get it right. There is also the fairly normal habit of unconsciously "fiddling" with it while wearing. Its pretty hard not to 100% of the time. One touch to the face to adjust and your effort is greatly compromised. Easier to not touch face when you don't have something there. A mask is also a potential reservoir and trap for the virus which if you do not take it off properly just contaminates your hands and presto.......effort not worth it or even worse. Lastly they are intended to be one use items of protective equipment. Using them again and again requires an unproven effort to disinfect that may or may not work. Now introduce the lowest common denominator person trying to manage that and...........well, I think its obvious. Lastly and probably most important to the question is the consumption of that really rare but c critical element of personal protection for our health care folks who are not just theoretically exposed on an occasional grocery trip but absolutely exposed all shift every shift. Top that off with the notion that anything less than a properly fitted N95 is even less effective at blocking anything but the largest of particles and droplets and you can see the hesitation for the recommendation. Theres a whole false sense of security element for the not very informed.

So, certainly there is some small incremental benefit to wearing something if all the considerations above are followed assiduously. Anything less than that routine each and every time and within the context that some disinfecting of the mask following each use is actually possible/effective......its a hard decision when you talk about it as national recommendation. Each of us can make our personal decisions. However - it would be wrong and too simplistic if that becomes a national recommendation to say "AH HA, I knew it all along!!" It more complex than that.

BTW - I do not wear a mask when I go out and I am very experienced in wearing one. Reasons are - in order of importance to my decision:

1) I do not want to consume those resources when there are others on the front lines....my brothers and sisters....who need them far more.

2) I am not confident that use of possibly contaminated masks is wise until I see a decontamination process that is endorsed by a source other than social media.

3) I prefer to be aware of my surroundings and the people I am in proximity to and hand washing as my primary prophylaxis. 

 

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/31/fauci-mask-recommendation-coronavirus-157476

For a humorous view of the above.......

And gloves.............

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

cdc-facialhair.jpg

Used to know a guy who worked safety at one of the Nevada test sites.  Told me that many of the beardy science types didn't want to shave their beards for a good respirator fit.  When forced to they shaved only the areas necessary for good seal.  Said they were a mighty funny looking bunch after that.

Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Point Break said:

One touch to the face to adjust and your effort is greatly compromised

Perfect is the enemy of good.

In a workplace a 10% reduction in exposure is not good enough. A 10% reduction in R in the population would save thousands of lives. 

There is reason to believe that even simple masks provide or are associated with protection. I listed some papers above. I looked and haven't found a single paper suggesting an increase in harms.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, weightless said:

Perfect is the enemy of good.

In a workplace a 10% reduction in exposure is not good enough. A 10% reduction in R in the population would save thousands of lives. 

There is reason to believe that even simple masks provide or are associated with protection. I listed some papers above. I looked and haven't found a single paper suggesting an increase in harms.

Exactly!

  Just to be clear, i'm not a proponent of causing mass hysteria over wearing N95's,  I'm a proponent of getting anything over your mouth/nose which reduces the inbound viral load for uninfected, and dramatically reduces the outbound projected droplets of the infected.  ie, dust mask, bandana, scarf, ski buff, homemade mask etc...

  improper fit and contaminating your own hands are BS strawmen...

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Went to Costco Monday to TRY & buy some food. Maybe 15% of the customers were wearing masks. Of the people wearing masks with thin metal straps across the nose, not one had bent the strap to fit properly, all had gaps either side of nostrils. Many did not have the rubber bands properly located to hold the mask on snugly (don't want to mess up the 'do). 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

To be sure, the president isn’t responsible for either the coronavirus or the disease it causes, COVID-19, and he couldn’t have stopped it from hitting our shores even if he had done everything right. Nor is it the case that the president hasn’t done anything right; in fact, his decision to implement a travel ban on China was prudent. And any narrative that attempts to pin all of the blame on Trump for the coronavirus is simply unfair. The temptation among the president’s critics to use the pandemic to get back at Trump for every bad thing he’s done should be resisted, and schadenfreude is never a good look.  That said, the president and his administration are responsible for grave, costly errors, most especially the epic manufacturing failures in diagnostic testing, the decision to test too few people, the delay in expanding testing to labs outside the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and problems in the supply chain. These mistakes have left us blind and badly behind the curve, and, for a few crucial weeks, they created a false sense of security. What we now know is that the coronavirus silently spread for several weeks, without us being aware of it and while we were doing nothing to stop it. Containment and mitigation efforts could have significantly slowed its spread at an early, critical point, but we frittered away that opportunity.  “They’ve simply lost time they can’t make up. You can’t get back six weeks of blindness,” Jeremy Konyndyk, who helped oversee the international response to Ebola during the Obama administration and is a senior policy fellow at the Center for Global Development, told The Washington Post. “To the extent that there’s someone to blame here, the blame is on poor, chaotic management from the White House and failure to acknowledge the big picture.”

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/03/peter-wehner-trump-presidency-over/607969/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share&fbclid=IwAR1IOIAvqYzuC2N0_Ql0_HrmA7lqZJaV7W0NmmtF4rtnrnrWR2s84fTOzQU

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry was working

Ed never seen before as the country has never been shut down like this

Quote above is nice but Ebola was different. Plus Ebola has been around a while it was not new. We didn't shut the country down.

Curve as far as i can tell is being flattened and isn't that the goal of all this? 

Get your flu shots every year, 22k dead in USA

Stay home

Manufacture in the US.

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, burndoc said:

 

Curve as far as i can tell is being flattened and isn't that the goal of all this? 

 

You will be able to watch the flattening state by state and thus determine the degree to which different responses worked.  I'll bet the ones in the pandemic response plan work better than the 'we'd prefer it if you don't go to the beach but we're not going to tell you what to do cause FREEDOM' does.

Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, burndoc said:

Get your flu shots every year, 22k dead in USA

 

Not to tempt fate, or Murphy, but I will take my chances!  The normal flu shot could cause a recurrence of the Guillian-Barre Syndrome that I contracted 18 years ago, and that was much worse than a normal case of the flu.

Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, billy backstay said:

 

Not to tempt fate, or Murphy, but I will take my chances!  The normal flu shot could cause a recurrence of the Guillian-Barre Syndrome that I contracted 18 years ago, and that was much worse than a normal case of the flu.

well that puts you in the exception category...unless someone is in one the wise thing to do is get the vaccination 

Link to post
Share on other sites

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/01/opinion/coronavirus-viral-dose.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

"...The importance of viral dose is being overlooked in discussions of the coronavirus. As with any other poison, viruses are usually more dangerous in larger amounts. Small initial exposures tend to lead to mild or asymptomatic infections, while larger doses can be lethal. ..."

  • Like 2
  • Downvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, burndoc said:

Curve as far as i can tell is being flattened and isn't that the goal of all this? 

Which curve are you talking about? The only stat that is a reliable indicator right now is the daily death toll, and in the US that's approaching the steepest acceleration portion of the curve. Italy's curve is also still on the upswing, but it's about half way up and might be starting to show signs of simmering down. And keep in mind, the daily death curves reflect cases that were contracted a month ago, so any measures that have been implemented in the last week or two (which is most of them) won't be reflected in the curves for another couple weeks.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, mad said:

Well he definitely comes across as way more presidential than Trump..................................but that's not really saying a lot. 

Hell  Obama came across as “presidential “ and see of far that set us back 

  • Downvote 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, weightless said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/01/opinion/coronavirus-viral-dose.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

"...The importance of viral dose is being overlooked in discussions of the coronavirus. As with any other poison, viruses are usually more dangerous in larger amounts. Small initial exposures tend to lead to mild or asymptomatic infections, while larger doses can be lethal. ..."

  I haven't overlooked it. Look at my posts, they all mention minimizing initial viral load.

  it is the Biggest factor in the logic that anything is better than nothing when it comes to blocking your face in public.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Raked Aft\\ said:

  I haven't overlooked it,  look at my posts they all mention minimizing intial viral load.

  it is the Biggest factor in the logic that anything is better than nothing when it comes to blocking your face in public.

I know. It was just a quote to tease the article which I think is worth a read.

I also think it motivates the idea that mask wearing could make a difference on the margins.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Point Break said:

91810673_2855751047853308_6205594277993512960_o.jpg

No............I will not use one single mask that should be going to these people. When there are enough masks.......and if recommended after thoughtful scientific review....then yes.

PB - agree with you that absolute priority are the frontline workers.  But I have a pack of sanding masks in the shed - useless for a frontline worker and probably next to useless as virus protection.  But I'll wear one of them if I go in public because it will stop droplets if I sneeze, and it will still block direct ingestion of 99% of droplets in the air.  I won't shave my beard off because the mask won't seal anyway - it's just a dust mask.  A bit better than nothing is still an improvement.  My view is that people are being "discouraged" from wearing them to avoid hoarding of supplies that are short for the frontline workers.  If supplies become abundant, the official line for Mr Everybody will likely change to "should be worn".

Mostly, though, I rely on living on a couple of acres, a few Km out of a small village in a quiet hinterland area.  Working from home, I'm pretty isolated on any given day.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

That's exactly what I'm saying. Stop being a pedant.

SfB actually is bringing up a salient point -- you have to how to properly don and doff a mask. I would add, you have to be trained in the proper fit, use, disposal and/or disinfection and reuse.

That being said, *people can be trained in all these things*.  We do it in our plant all the time.  However, getting folks to do that reliably is the issue. . .

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Point Break said:

Yep.. I’ll be using a fishing buff with paper towel over my mouth and nose. I’ve tried it at home but have not worn it out yet. Common sense any barrier is better than none, maybe not as good as N95 mask but who really cares at this point. After NY goes through their peak, the dangers of the virus will have everyone’s attention, it’ll be tough to watch the news... we are at the calm before the storm, the green guy about to experience his first combat. Prayers to all ~~~~

Link to post
Share on other sites

Gifted 10 of these disposable masks by a customer.

https://kutehealth.com/

He brought these into production (125,000/day), with FDA approval, in 27 days.   Has own certified medical factory, so off they go daily to NYC.   Estimates billions needed.  Points out Singapore & Hong Kong people wear these all the time.

Said to use each  one week.  Toss it in big baggie after use but don’t seal off bag.  It’s all I’ve got so it will have to do.

At this point in US epidemic he said masks should have been mandatory.  Thinks were going to be staggered soon with number of cases.  
 

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, blunderfull said:

At this point in US epidemic he said masks should have been mandatory.  Thinks were going to be staggered soon with number of cases.  

 

I don't sell masks, but I do sell kitchen cabinets.  I thought for sure by now new cabinets would be mandatory as well.

 

 

Something popped up on my news feed earlier.  Total global cases is close to a million.  If we're supposed to get to 80% infection, this is going to take too long.  By my maths, that's only .013% of the population after three months.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Hatin' life said:

I don't sell masks, but I do sell kitchen cabinets.  I thought for sure by now new cabinets would be mandatory as well.

 

 

Something popped up on my news feed earlier.  Total global cases is close to a million.  If we're supposed to get to 80% infection, this is going to take too long.  By my maths, that's only .013% of the population after three months.

Total tests will be the number I watch.  We have 3.2 mill in our county and as of yesterday only 6,000 tested.  500+ positives as of yesterday.   Scale those test/positives up for 3.2 mill and, yes, I’m a bit north of worried.

Link to post
Share on other sites

‘Safe Distance’ signs going up on streets.   Police are working with helicopter spotters to  move people along.   Mostly kids.  
 

Germany announces a cool phone app that comes on line “mid-april.”  You will be notified by app if you’ve been in contact with known positive based on  GPS data. Claims made by Govt there will be no heavy handed data mining such as Russia is alleged to be doing to citizens.

Any surprise Germany crisis management out in front?

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, blunderfull said:

Total tests will be the number I watch.  We have 3.2 mill in our county and as of yesterday only 6,000 tested.  500+ positives as of yesterday.   Scale those test/positives up for 3.2 mill and, yes, I’m a bit north of worried.

Interesting - Houston has same population and number of positives and tests (maybe). One public station has been running doing 200 to 240/day for ten days, the 2nd was supposed to be finally operational yesterday.  The other day Trump said 1 million tests had been done, hard time believing that one.

Link to post
Share on other sites
51 minutes ago, blunderfull said:

Germany announces a cool phone app that comes on line “mid-april.”  You will be notified by app if you’ve been in contact with known positive based on  GPS data.

I saw an app on the local news that shows COVID cases reported down to the area the size of a small city block.  I failed to note where it could be found because I was a bit shocked they would pinpoint the cases to such a small area.  I was imagining the torch and firearm nuts hunting the people down.

Link to post
Share on other sites

1 April Florida 

TAMPA, Fla. - The Florida Department of Health says the number of known cases of COVID-19 in the state has risen by 237 since Wednesday evening's update as the virus spreads and as more people get tested across the state.

The total number of cases in Florida is now 8,010. The number of deaths Thursday morning hit 128, an increase of 27 since last night and 41 in the last 24 hours. One of those was in Pinellas County, officials said. An 85-year-old man was the sixth death in the county. Two women, ages 68 and 86, died in Hillsborough, the county's fourth and fifth victims.

 

Screenshot (10).png

Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks like finally we are starting to fly in some masks from other countries.

Way to late in my opinion.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/02/us/coronavirus-patriots-plane-masks-spt-trnd/index.html

This should and could have been happening a month ago.

Rumor mill is that Turkey has a good supply as well.  Unsubstantiated of course, but willing to send/sell.

And why on earth is Fauci getting death threats?  When times are weird the weird go pro, or something like that.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Historian Dr. Heather Cox Richardson, if you're not following he daily FB posts get onboard A.S.A.P., she's succinct and awesome.

 

April 1, 2020 (Wednesday)

After a very long day of teaching on-line (which I find exhausting) and celebrating the new book’s publication date (woo hoo!) I fell deeply asleep on the couch early this evening and awoke hours later to read the news. In that quiet clarity of being newly rested in the middle of the night, reading the news felt very much like history research, when you are dropped into the sources and getting a sense of what the world looked like at a certain moment in time. 

If I were looking back at today from the vantage point of a hundred years from now, I would write that the government, whose systems for handling a crisis have been dismantled, is faltering badly as inexperienced officials are trying to respond to a pandemic by relying on the private sector.

Hardly a novel interpretation, but it really jumps out when you spend a couple of hours reading the day’s news all at once.

Here’s what I saw:

The news broke that the United States has been sending medical supplies to other countries while our own health care workers don’t have masks or PPE (personal protective equipment). Politico revealed that an administration official called counterparts in Thailand to ask for PPE only to be told by a confused official on the other end who said that the U.S. was shipping those very supplies to Thailand. One shipment had already arrived, and another was on its way. Vice President Mike Pence, who is in charge of the administration’s coronavirus task force, immediately halted the shipment. It appears that there has been no coordination between the administration and USAID, the United States Agency for International Development, so we have apparently been exporting the very supplies we need at home. 

This created a furor over the fact that we also sent 17.8 tons of medical supplies, including masks, gowns, gauze, and respirators to China in February, after the severity of our own impending crisis was already clear. The administration has said these supplies were “donated,” but I have not been able to track down by whom. 

Politico also broke the story that since March 12, Trump’s son-in-law Jared Kushner has been in charge of his own coronavirus response team to get the private sector on board to fight the crisis. Trump has been reluctant to activate the Defense Production Act, a law that enables the government to encourage manufacturers to produce vital equipment and protects them from losses when they do. Bizarrely, the Trump administration—like all others since the law went into effect in the 1950s—uses this act all the time to respond to natural disasters, to move supplies around during emergencies, and so on, but refuses to do so now. Instead, it appears Trump has tapped Kushner to coordinate with private industry. In that capacity, he and his outside experts—including a number from the consulting firm McKinsey—are acting as a sort of independent cell without government oversight and are overruling the teams already in place. 

We learned that the Obama administration tried five years ago to address what it perceived as a lack of ventilators in case of a pandemic, paying $13.8 million to a Pennsylvania manufacturer—a subsidiary of a huge Dutch appliance and technology corporation-- to create a cheap, easy ventilator to stockpile. The FDA cleared the device in September and the Department of Health and Human Services, which had provided the $13.8 million, ordered 10,000 of them for $3,280 each. Instead of providing those ventilators, the company instead hiked its prices and sold them overseas. Trump has declined to use the DPA to get the company to produce the ventilators it developed for the U.S. Instead, Kushner’s team is negotiating with it to build 43,000 more expensive hospital ventilators for the U.S.
 
Pence tried to suggest that the administration’s slow response was because China had been slow about admitting the full extent of the disease and that the Centers for Disease Control had initially mischaracterized the danger from it as low. (While China did try to quash information about the disease, the CDC was clear about it.) Pence continued: “I don’t believe the President has ever belittled the threat of the coronavirus.” (There is overwhelming evidence Trump did exactly this.) 

Florida Governor Ron DeSantis has not wanted to take the responsibility for closing down his state and has been trying to get Trump to do it. But Trump doesn’t want to do it either. So the two of them have been trying to get the other to do it as the infection and death rates in Florida climb. Finally, today, DeSantis made the call, but he exempted churches, synagogues, and houses of worship from its provisions, calling them essential businesses. This will permit religious leaders like Rodney Howard-Browne to keep his megachurch open. On Monday, sheriff’s deputies arrested Howard-Browne for unlawful assembly and a violation of health emergency rules. 

Georgia Governor Brian Kemp has finally issued shelter-in-place order for Georgia, too, as the state reported 4,748 cases of Covid-19 and 56 deaths. He said a key change was the recent news that people could transmit the virus without showing symptoms, but of course that news is not recent; we have known it virtually since the beginning. 

DeSantis has another crisis on his hands, too. A cruise ship with infected passengers is sitting off the coast of Florida, and he doesn’t want it to dock in the state. Trump is not taking responsibility for that, either. So DeSantis has finally announced he will take off the ship the 49 people on it who hail from Florida… but not the others, including those from other countries, who continue to float on a ship with disease on it. This situation needs an immediate solution.

The federal government had a similar problem aboard the U.S.S. Theodore Roosevelt, an aircraft carrier where Covid-19 was spreading. Tired of waiting for his superiors to get his people to safety, the ship’s commander wrote a scathing letter claiming that keeping the sailors on the ship was “an unnecessary risk and breaks faith with those Sailors entrusted to our care.” After the letter was made public, Navy officials agreed to offload sailors to quarantine in Guam to keep the disease at bay.

Georgia Senator Kelly Loeffler, appointed by Kemp and married to the CEO of the company that owns the New York Stock Exchange, revealed more stock trades today that took place after she had attended a Senate briefing on the severity of the coming epidemic. She sold stock in retail stores and bought stock in a company that makes PPEs. She maintains she has done nothing wrong.

And Devin Nunes (R-CA), the ranking member of the House Intelligence Committee and associate of indicted political operative Lev Parnas said on the Fox News Channel today he thought that closing schools was “way overkill” and that it was hurting the economy unnecessarily. California has more than 6,900 cases and at least 150 people there have died from it.

Finally, it appears that Trump will continue golfing despite the crisis. Although staying mum about who the “dignitary” they need to protect is, the Secret Service has signed a $45,000 contract to rent golf carts in Sterling, Virginia, where Trump has a golf course that remains open despite Virginia’s stay-at-home order. 

It’s important to note that any of these stories might have good explanations. Maybe shoring up USAID was worth losing our PPEs, or there’s a good reason not to use the DPA to get more ventilators from the company who contracted to produce them. But if so, we are not hearing those explanations. Instead, what jumps out at this hodge-podge of stories is the lack of organization and expertise, and the apparent every-man-for-himself attitude at the highest levels of government. 

That attitude sure doesn’t seem to be producing an effective response to the global pandemic that is threatening our lives.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, d'ranger said:

Interesting - Houston has same population and number of positives and tests (maybe). One public station has been running doing 200 to 240/day for ten days, the 2nd was supposed to be finally operational yesterday.  The other day Trump said 1 million tests had been done, hard time believing that one.

How many ICU beds in Houston?

Reports are that we have ~700 ICU beds out a total ~5-6000 hospital beds.

Of the ~500 positives identified:   100 hospitalized and 40 in ICU units.  This last number is the one I watch.   If no ICU beds available then what?

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, d'ranger said:

Interesting - Houston has same population and number of positives and tests (maybe). One public station has been running doing 200 to 240/day for ten days, the 2nd was supposed to be finally operational yesterday.  The other day Trump said 1 million tests had been done, hard time believing that one.

Where I am the officials have two stories. One about the number of tests they can do per day and one about how many days they can run at that number. The latter seems be the limiting factor. So, they're still limiting tests to very specific cases. That seems consistent with national trends. You can see that in the covid tracking project data. The very high positive rate indicates tightly targeted testing. We aren't going to get to phase 2 without a lot more testing, significant community testing and contact tracking. 

https://www.calculatedriskblog.com/

COVIDApr12020.PNG

Link to post
Share on other sites

Can't find anything on ICU #s - area hospitals have 19000 beds, metro area is almost 7 million. The city and county did a stay at home last week but the state has not. Latest prediction is to expect the peak to hit in Texas May2. The lack of regard by many here means it could get really ugly. From my years of visiting friends/relatives in hospitals the % of ICU to regular beds is pretty small. 

As Tom Petty sang - the waiting is the hardest part.

Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, d'ranger said:

Can't find anything on ICU #s - area hospitals have 19000 beds, metro area is almost 7 million. The city and county did a stay at home last week but the state has not. Latest prediction is to expect the peak to hit in Texas May2. The lack of regard by many here means it could get really ugly. From my years of visiting friends/relatives in hospitals the % of ICU to regular beds is pretty small. 

As Tom Petty sang - the waiting is the hardest part. 

The waiting sucks. The storm isn't going to be nice either.

Texas? You've seen this? If feels a bit WAGish to me but it is numbers: https://covid19.healthdata.org/projections?fbclid=IwAR2rsEaFrsL-AYhQo1lQ9hkqJEnQPYUZdnHQ8UFags0A5hH6ViYc371rI14

image.thumb.png.5252719a33c8668214a46316386c8a7c.png

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the data, hadn't found that one. If there is a bright spot Texas is a red state (our Lt Gov says all the grandparents will be happy to die to save the economy) so surely the Feds will help, right? Oh wait, the stockpiles are already depleted and Jared didn't tell anyone.

This is hurricane country and it feels like the day before it hits in a Groundhog Day movie kind of way. It sucks.

edit: If that data above is correct the Death Panels will finally arrive here. Thanks Obama!

Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, blunderfull said:

How many ICU beds in Houston?

Reports are that we have ~700 ICU beds out a total ~5-6000 hospital beds.

Of the ~500 positives identified:   100 hospitalized and 40 in ICU units.  This last number is the one I watch.   If no ICU beds available then what?

with CV every hospital can easily be converted to ICU needs of a distressed CV patient...basic vital sign monitoring and a ventilator is all that is needed  

Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, weightless said:

The waiting sucks. The storm isn't going to be nice either.

Texas? You've seen this? If feels a bit WAGish to me but it is numbers: https://covid19.healthdata.org/projections?fbclid=IwAR2rsEaFrsL-AYhQo1lQ9hkqJEnQPYUZdnHQ8UFags0A5hH6ViYc371rI14

image.thumb.png.5252719a33c8668214a46316386c8a7c.png

Yep... akin to an approaching hurricane, you are prepared best you can, you know it will be bad just not how bad and that the reality on the other side is nothing you can imagine ahead of time....NY is going to be horrific and it will hit there first leaving places with later bulges anxious with ugly visions of NYC in their heads 

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, BravoBravo said:

with CV every hospital can easily be converted to ICU needs of a distressed CV patient...basic vital sign monitoring and a ventilator is all that is needed  

Ventilator is all that's needed....

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Ventilator is all that's needed....

all that is life dependent...basic vital sign monitoring equipment is at virtually every hospital bed....sad stats for those on vents...only 50/50 chance of living. I heard a stat last night that in one location a common theme of deceased was BMI of 30 +...pre diabetic or diabetic ...every one of those died and none without those conditions did...not a universal conclusion but certainly a very very bad sign of obese and diabetics   

BMI.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

Report from the stix: $1.75 gal gas. Both the white and black groceries are completely out of paper products now. Not fair in a land of trees and lumber companies.  Beer deals are back! Meat selection ok for me but the picky folks are bitching about it. First world problems.

Saw a buddy in store with 6 cases of beer. He's driving to Philly tomorrow (beer stores are closed there) to be with his very aged parents for a month. I don't envy that experience. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, Blue Crab said:

Report from the stix: $1.75 gal gas. Both the white and black groceries are completely out of paper products now. Not fair in a land of trees and lumber companies.  Beer deals are back! Meat selection ok for me but the picky folks are bitching about it. First world problems.

Saw a buddy in store with 6 cases of beer. He's driving to Philly tomorrow (beer stores are closed there) to be with his very aged parents for a month. I don't envy that experience. 

paid $1.39 for gas yesterday...

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, d'ranger said:

Local Sams Club $1.44, all the normal places are in the 1.60s.  People are still hoarding tp. I guess they really do give a shit.

Surprised you don't "buy local" and support your local owner operated gas station 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Just got back from the grocery store.  It's been maybe two weeks since I last bought groceries. 

There was absolutely no way in hell you can keep even one foot of distancing! 

I remember reading some time ago that all odors are particulate.  I'm walking down the aisles of the grocery store and several times wiffed some bad body odor of people who passed me in the aisles.  So if body odor particulates were floating by my nose, so could COVID. 

This is one hell of an efficient virus.  It has even amazed Fauci.

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Jules said:

Just got back from the grocery store.  It's been maybe two weeks since I last bought groceries. 

There was absolutely no way in hell you can keep even one foot of distancing! 

I remember reading some time ago that all odors are particulate.  I'm walking down the aisles of the grocery store and several times wiffed some bad body odor of people who passed me in the aisles.  So if body odor particulates were floating by my nose, so could COVID. 

This is one hell of an efficient virus.  It has even amazed Fauci.

You expect Floriduh to do anything intelligent like limiting the number of people in a store at one time?

It's Floriduh FFS - get your food delivered and stay away from the morons - you are outnumbered on a galactic scale.

Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, BravoBravo said:
45 minutes ago, weightless said:

The waiting sucks. The storm isn't going to be nice either.

Texas? You've seen this? If feels a bit WAGish to me but it is numbers: https://covid19.healthdata.org/projections?fbclid=IwAR2rsEaFrsL-AYhQo1lQ9hkqJEnQPYUZdnHQ8UFags0A5hH6ViYc371rI14

image.thumb.png.5252719a33c8668214a46316386c8a7c.png

Yep... akin to an approaching hurricane, you are prepared best you can, you know it will be bad just not how bad and that the reality on the other side is nothing you can imagine ahead of time....NY is going to be horrific and it will hit there first leaving places with later bulges anxious with ugly visions of NYC in their heads 

A couple of things to keep in mind with this model.  It's pretty rudimentary and young so daily data has a pretty significant impact on forecasts more than a week out.  Because of the uncertainty, the confidence intervals are very wide.  As it gathers more data and they are able to better calibrate it, the confidence intervals will narrow slightly.  They are making daily runs with data pulled at 1700 PDT.  Some info on the model and how its working can be found here  http://www.healthdata.org/covid/updates  .  More than a WAG but not precise, particularly in a state "early" in the process.  

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, BravoBravo said:

Surprised you don't "buy local" and support your local owner operated gas station 

Those don't exist anymore. Best you're gonna find is a franchise

Link to post
Share on other sites

For reference: in Milan - large city in Italy with excellent infrastructure, but which failed to contain the virus initially, only now getting to the peak - they had 76% more deaths in March than the same month, last year

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Blue Crab said:

Re Fauci death threats

Is the thinking that offing Fauci means we can go back to Easter as the end of the virus? 

"The first messenger, that gave notice of Lucullus' coming was so far from pleasing Tigranes that, he had his head cut off for his pains; and no man dared to bring further information. Without any intelligence at all, Tigranes sat while war was already blazing around him, giving ear only to those who flattered him".[1]

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, SloopJonB said:

You expect Floriduh to do anything intelligent like limiting the number of people in a store at one time?

It's Floriduh FFS - get your food delivered and stay away from the morons - you are outnumbered on a galactic scale.

Try ordering anything online here.  You can place all you want in your cart but when you go to pay, the click bar doesn't do anything.  I even tried ordering booze and the same thing happened.  It's like trying to sign up for unemployment except you are trying to give them money rather than getting any.

Speaking of unemployment, the SO got word today - owners following the Gov's orders and closing up.  The local news is filled with stories of people trying to file and can't (online only) and those who have filed have waited a month or longer and still haven't seen a penny.  No wonder Florida has $4 billion in the unemployment trust fund.

Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Jules said:

Try ordering anything online here.  You can place all you want in your cart but when you go to pay, the click bar doesn't do anything.  I even tried ordering booze and the same thing happened.  It's like trying to sign up for unemployment except you are trying to give them money rather than getting any.

Speaking of unemployment, the SO got word today - owners following the Gov's orders and closing up.  The local news is filled with stories of people trying to file and can't (online only) and those who have filed have waited a month or longer and still haven't seen a penny.  No wonder Florida has $4 billion in the unemployment trust fund.

Gesshhh.....Jules...you'd bitch if they hung you with a new rope !

Link to post
Share on other sites

A potential coronavirus vaccine developed by US scientists has been found to produce antibodies capable of fighting off Covid-19 in the first peer-reviewed study of its kind.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/coronavirus-vaccine-pittsburgh-university-lancet-study-covid-pandemic-a9442536.html?fbclid=IwAR2tLRROzAWLIp4SzX4yFIXVrGUORVLxzd5cQ-2HwiFNFYbFzNw4U70B7KM

Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, BravoBravo said:

A potential coronavirus vaccine developed by US scientists has been found to produce antibodies in mice capable of fighting off Covid-19 in the first peer-reviewed study of its kind.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/coronavirus-vaccine-pittsburgh-university-lancet-study-covid-pandemic-a9442536.html?fbclid=IwAR2tLRROzAWLIp4SzX4yFIXVrGUORVLxzd5cQ-2HwiFNFYbFzNw4U70B7KM

FIFY. Still a long way to go...

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, IStream said:

FIFY. Still a long way to go...

So was the moon.....if ya catch my drift Vern !...

America !

Link to post
Share on other sites

The last thing we need right now is "we're number one!" American exceptionalism. Unwillingness to accept the WHO-developed COVID-19 test early on is part of what got us into this shit in the first place. There are groups all over the world working on vaccines and I wish them all the greatest possible success.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, IStream said:

The last thing we need right now is "we're number one!" American exceptionalism. Unwillingness to accept the WHO-developed COVID-19 test early on is part of what got us into this shit in the first place. There are groups all over the world working on vaccines and I wish them all the greatest possible success.

American exceptionalism is exactly what we need,what the world needs...hell the world replies on american exceptionalism !.....WHO is anti American except when it has it's hand out,just like the useless UN

  • Downvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, BravoBravo said:

American exceptionalism is exactly what we need,what the world needs...hell the world replies on american exceptionalism !.....

I think you meant to say that the world replies "to" american exceptionalism.    Or perhaps "responds to"?

:P

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/2/2020 at 1:25 AM, MR.CLEAN said:

cdc-facialhair.jpg

any world where it is not safe to rock a Fu Manchu isn't a world I want to live in.

Also how come you can name the Dali, Fu manchu, Zappa etc after a person but the "Hitler" gets called a toothbrush?

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, IStream said:

 Unwillingness to accept the WHO-developed COVID-19 test early on is part of what got us into this shit in the first place. 

And firing all the smart people and gutting the infrastructure that was in place and hiring morons and incompetents and continuing the destruction of the functional bureaucracies that were all in position and then when the shit hits the fan and incompetence can't find the place for the TP, then, blame it on the government and bring in your best buds to cash up.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, Windward said:
56 minutes ago, BravoBravo said:

American exceptionalism is exactly what we need,what the world needs...hell the world replies on american exceptionalism !.....

I think you meant to say that the world replies "to" american exceptionalism.    Or perhaps "responds to"?

The only we're proving to be exceptional at with this pandemic is believing we are somehow impervious to this virus. 

Oh, and one other thing - seeing smoke off on the horizon and waiting until a firestorm is at our feet before taking out the garden hose.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Great article in Lancet comparing use of masks internationally and discussing whether there should be widespread use in the US. White House reportedly going to advise Americans should wear facemasks but the jury is out whether that recommendation will be for just hot spots or everywhere. We'll see.

Quote

However, there is an essential distinction between absence of evidence and evidence of absence. Evidence that face masks can provide effective protection against respiratory infections in the community is scarce, as acknowledged in recommendations from the UK and Germany.

However, face masks are widely used by medical workers as part of droplet precautions when caring for patients with respiratory infections. It would be reasonable to suggest vulnerable individuals avoid crowded areas and use surgical face masks rationally when exposed to high-risk areas. As evidence suggests COVID-19 could be transmitted before symptom onset, community transmission might be reduced if everyone, including people who have been infected but are asymptomatic and contagious, wear face masks.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(20)30134-X/fulltext

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Blue Crab said:

Re Fauci death threats

Is the thinking that offing Fauci means we can go back to Easter as the end of the virus? 

That word thinking is problematic.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Windward said:

I think you meant to say that the world replies "to" american exceptionalism.    Or perhaps "responds to"?

:P

He doesn't know what he meant to say.

He should stick to USA!...USA!...USA!

Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, dolphinmaster said:

And firing all the smart people and gutting the infrastructure that was in place and hiring morons and incompetents and continuing the destruction of the functional bureaucracies that were all in position and then when the shit hits the fan and incompetence can't find the place for the TP, then, blame it on the government and bring in your best buds to cash up.

It's the Republican playbook.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/1/2020 at 8:04 PM, Raked Aft\\ said:

Exactly!

  Just to be clear, i'm not a proponent of causing mass hysteria over wearing N95's,  I'm a proponent of getting anything over your mouth/nose which reduces the inbound viral load for uninfected, and dramatically reduces the outbound projected droplets of the infected. ie, dust mask, bandana, scarf, ski buff, homemade mask etc...

  improper fit and contaminating your own hands are BS strawmen...

In Italy, if you went to the supermarket without a mask, you’d get very hard stares - and not because people give a shit about your health

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

He doesn't know what he meant to say.

He should stick to USA!...USA!...USA!

So, this is a worldwide pandemic and all you can do is sit and heckle another country????

 

TAKE. IT. TO. PA.

Sheesh, you'd think it was your pussy he grabbed.

 

WL

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, BravoBravo said:

American exceptionalism is exactly what we need,what the world needs...hell the world replies on american exceptionalism !.....WHO is anti American except when it has it's hand out,just like the useless UN

American exceptionalism?

What are you guys now? Getting towards being north of 200,000 cases, exceptional indeed. The last thing the world needs is some sort of Team Mercia chest beating BS, although you are definitely the world leader in COVID19. As for a vaccine many countries including here in the land of the Kangaroos are reporting either the development or close to development of a vaccine, even so it'll still be 12-18 months before we can start lining up for a jab.   

Good luck and stay from the guns.

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/1/2020 at 6:20 PM, burndoc said:

I appreciate your knowledge on many issues, but how did we fuck up big time? Really i am surprised as many people are following the stay at home orders in the USA where we are not used to listening to others and against our constitutional rights. This is not a totalitarian country such as China which does not have the same liberties as us. The hardest hit states are mostly run by democrats and so are the largest cities. is it their fault? Cuomo early on tried to quarantine the area around WestChester and is complaining about Rhode Island.

Again, Italy. It’s certainly a (chaotic) democracy, and people historically distrust laws and are adept at finding novel ways to flout them. Emblematically, when seat belts became mandatory, people would drive wearing T-shirts with a black diagonal stripe, even today in the South they are not in general use ...

But we’re not stupid, the virus menace w