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I'm a bit too old to "get into" anything Mike.

However, from time to time something "New" piques my interest. I prefer not to pretend to understand the genealogy of the genre.:rolleyes: 

I bet Gershwin could have had some fun.

 

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7 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

how involved?  Cant say I'm a fan.

meli being polite :D

I'm a project manager. I schedule and organize stuff, and make sure it goes smoothly. Everyone is my bitch until something goes wrong. Then I'm a punching bag.

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4 hours ago, austin1972 said:

I'm a project manager. I schedule and organize stuff, and make sure it goes smoothly. Everyone is my bitch until something goes wrong. Then I'm a punching bag.

You did a good job on that one, it was popular. Where did you shoot that? Please say "Canton, Ohio."

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10 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

I'm a bit too old to "get into" anything Mike.

However, from time to time something "New" piques my interest. I prefer not to pretend to understand the genealogy of the genre.:rolleyes: 

I bet Gershwin could have had some fun.

 

You titled a thread "Rap/Hip Hop" and then you aren't interested in anything more than some Aussie bloke?

That's like going to the Louvre and limiting your art exposure to the refrigerator magnets in the museum gift shop.

Maybe next you can start a thread on "Classical Guitar" and post a video from Tiny Tim?

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7 hours ago, mikewof said:

You titled a thread "Rap/Hip Hop" and then you aren't interested in anything more than some Aussie bloke?

 

What?you post this :mehthis: connected to my link to this. You're losing what few marbles you ever had,

 

17 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

I'm a bit too old to "get into" anything Mike.

However, from time to time something "New" piques my interest. I prefer not to pretend to understand the genealogy of the genre.:rolleyes: 

I bet Gershwin could have had some fun.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

What?you post this :mehthis: connected to my link to this. You're losing what few marbles you ever had,

WTF? You were the one who started a hip hop thread and then decided that you aren't actually interested in the music, other than some kid in Australia.

My marbles are safely in the bag. You might check your marbles though, they seem to have been forgotten on the playground.

Maybe change the title of the thread to "some guy in Australia, and some other folks I threw in to hide my lack of interest."

For your next trick, you should invite people to the library and take them no further than the community bulletin board.

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10 minutes ago, mikewof said:

WTF? You were the one who started a hip hop thread and then decided that you aren't actually interested in the music, other than some kid in Australia.

My marbles are safely in the bag. You might check your marbles though, they seem to have been forgotten on the playground.

Maybe change the title of the thread to "some guy in Australia, and some other folks I threw in to hide my lack of interest."

For your next trick, you should invite people to the library and take them no further than the community bulletin board.

Well you seem to have successfully put an end to an attempt to explore the genre, Well done Mike.

Fucking idiot.

Would you like me to ask Scooter to take this thread down so you can start your own more Americentric one?

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1 hour ago, Shortforbob said:

Well you seem to have successfully put an end to an attempt to explore the genre, Well done Mike.

Fucking idiot.

Would you like me to ask Scooter to take this thread down so you can start your own more Americentric one?

 The first sign you're spending way too much time on SA is when you start talking about taking your problems to Scooter

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17 hours ago, austin1972 said:

I'm a project manager. I schedule and organize stuff, and make sure it goes smoothly. Everyone is my bitch until something goes wrong. Then I'm a punching bag.

That was great. Was that “ Black Jesus “ I saw briefly? 

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4 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

Well you seem to have successfully put an end to an attempt to explore the genre, Well done Mike.

Fucking idiot.

Would you like me to ask Scooter to take this thread down so you can start your own more Americentric one?

It's "rap/hip hop" remember? That would be "Americentric" for the same reason that Tooheys/Vegemite would be "Australiacentric."

If you want to "explore the genre" you should maybe, y'know, explore the genre?

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6 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

 

That's actually Rai, but your heart is in the right place, "exploring the genre."

So, aside from trying to find the soul of hip hop outside of the places where it was born, and the reason it was born, do you believe, Meli, that there are some artists who produce technically more proficient art?

For instance, do you think it's likely that a Monet is technically able to communicate better than say, a random landscape made by a hobbyist doing paint-by-number at the YMCA?

Do you think that say, Dick Vitale is technically able to call play-by-play on a basketball game better than a really ambitious college student?

In other words, do you believe that some artists are more successful at the goals of art than other artists?

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6 minutes ago, mikewof said:

That's actually Rai, but your heart is in the right place, "exploring the genre."

So, aside from trying to find the soul of hip hop outside of the places where it was born, and the reason it was born, do you believe, Meli, that there are some artists who produce technically more proficient art?

For instance, do you think it's likely that a Monet is technically able to communicate better than say, a random landscape made by a hobbyist doing paint-by-number at the YMCA?

Do you think that say, Dick Vitale is technically able to call play-by-play on a basketball game better than a really ambitious college student?

In other words, do you believe that some artists are more successful at the goals of art than other artists?

Using Dick Vitale as an example hurts your argument. Dickie V is at least 15 years past his expiration date. Not to mention calling him a play by pay man is like calling an MC a DJ.  

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8 minutes ago, chinabald said:

Using Dick Vitale as an example hurts your argument. Dickie V is at least 15 years past his expiration date. Not to mention calling him a play by pay man is like calling an MC a DJ.  

Dick Vitale loves the game, he's a committed professional, and he knows what he's doing. He may not be your cup of tea in 2020, but he's a good example of someone who is technically proficient and highly experienced in that art.

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21 hours ago, mikewof said:

That's actually Rai, but your heart is in the right place, "exploring the genre."

So, aside from trying to find the soul of hip hop outside of the places where it was born, and the reason it was born, do you believe, Meli, that there are some artists who produce technically more proficient art?

For instance, do you think it's likely that a Monet is technically able to communicate better than say, a random landscape made by a hobbyist doing paint-by-number at the YMCA?

Do you think that say, Dick Vitale is technically able to call play-by-play on a basketball game better than a really ambitious college student?

In other words, do you believe that some artists are more successful at the goals of art than other artists?

Thanks for triggering Mike, Meli.

He went full Wofsey on us.

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Typically I like nothing better then a couple of Middle Aged white people arguing about what’s real or even good rap/hip hop

I have decided to support Meli in this discussion. And of course by that I mean Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five featuring Melle Mel  

 

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5 minutes ago, chinabald said:

Typically I like nothing better then a couple of Middle Aged white people arguing about what’s real or even good rap/hip hop

I have decided to support Meli in this discussion. And of course by that I mean Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five featuring Melle Mel  

 

 

So many memories with that song, Washington Heights and The Bronx. It's always curious to me how "middle aged white people" seem to really like 1980s-era bouncy hip hop. Still close enough to disco maybe?

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5 minutes ago, mikewof said:

 

So many memories with that song, Washington Heights and The Bronx. It's always curious to me how "middle aged white people" seem to really like 1980s-era bouncy hip hop. Still close enough to disco maybe?

Just has to do with their age when it became a thing, sherlock.

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42 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Just has to do with their age when it became a thing, sherlock.

Doesn't explain it Watson. That contingent seems to either ignore or really dislike Shock-G, Mc Lyte, Public Enemy, Digital Underground, Pac, Nas, E-40 and Xzibit, and they were around back when folks like you, me, China, and Meli were of that "age."

I went to school with MC Lyte btw back in late 1980s, she was friendly. I also went to school with Sean Combs, we never spoke though, he was kind of "famous" even as a student.

 

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2 hours ago, mikewof said:

Doesn't explain it Watson. That contingent seems to either ignore or really dislike Shock-G, Mc Lyte, Public Enemy, Digital Underground, Pac, Nas, E-40 and Xzibit, and they were around back when folks like you, me, China, and Meli were of that "age."

I went to school with MC Lyte btw back in late 1980s, she was friendly. I also went to school with Sean Combs, we never spoke though, he was kind of "famous" even as a student.

 

Maybe it’s an east coast, west coast thing? 

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9 hours ago, chinabald said:

Maybe it’s an east coast, west coast thing? 

They were about half east side, half west side, so I think it wasn't that. But maybe how "scary" the music seemed. Pac, Nas, Public Enemy, etc., were all kind of threatening in a vague way. They were making poems about -- essentially -- an ongoing race war.

Anyone who grew up on punk pretty much knew the formula, but it was the era of the LA riots, the uninitiated -- myself included to a degree -- couldn't necessarily tell at first that the rhymes weren't aspirational, but rather observational. We eventually figured it out. The "murders" were artistic battles.

But back then, I wasn't listening to Pac, I was listened to Me-phi-Me, Kool Mo Dee, Doug Fresh, Definition of Sound, Tribe Called Quest ... whatever we could find that didn't scare us.

The lever though was Gold Money. That was Public Enemy music (Pac was still in the background of Gold Money back then) but the music was so fucking good, that we just tolerated.being scared.

It was kind of like the opening of Office Space with Michael Bolton (the non ass clown one) ...

But then 9/11 came and suddenly the suburban middle class was no longer terrified of the urban working class, we were taught to be terrified of wealthy radical Islamic fundamentalists instead.

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...
  • 3 months later...
  • 3 weeks later...
  • 4 weeks later...

 

On 7/14/2020 at 6:00 PM, Meat Wad said:

before rap was rap

 

 

On 7/14/2020 at 6:13 PM, Snaggletooth said:

I digge the songue, completeley.  Howe do you figgurre thissis rap?  Juste currinouse........              :)

 

Cause they are all talking more than singing.
Many people think Rap was invented in the modern black community. No they just brought it mainstream. I've heard music from the ages where the talk or chant.
 

On 7/14/2020 at 6:52 PM, cyclone said:

 

 

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On 1/26/2020 at 12:09 AM, mikewof said:

It's "rap/hip hop" remember? That would be "Americentric" for the same reason that Tooheys/Vegemite would be "Australiacentric."

If you want to "explore the genre" you should maybe, y'know, explore the genre?

lmaaaaaaaoo

"all rap goes back to tupac, rap is therefore a permanently, intrinsically american domain, and ne1 trying 2 imitate is just like copying monet, I have a galaxy brain" --> take of the century

@Marinatrix447 and @Shortforbob definitely will be listening while I work to a few of these weird foreigners you've posted

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1 hour ago, Breamerly said:

lmaaaaaaaoo

"all rap goes back to tupac, rap is therefore a permanently, intrinsically american domain, and ne1 trying 2 imitate is just like copying monet, I have a galaxy brain" --> take of the century

@Marinatrix447 and @Shortforbob definitely will be listening while I work to a few of these weird foreigners you've posted

All rap does not go back to Tupac. All rap does however, go back to Dolomite.

All hip hop however, goes back to Shock, who then hired Pac.

As for your "lmaaaaaaaoo" you are apparently amused easily, you'll do well here.

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2 hours ago, mikewof said:

All rap does not go back to Tupac. All rap does however, go back to Dolomite.

All hip hop however, goes back to Shock, who then hired Pac.

As for your "lmaaaaaaaoo" you are apparently amused easily, you'll do well here.

I mean, sure. You've got some history you're tracing out here and I'm not addressing the accuracy of it one way or the other - Maybe it does go back to Dolomite. Maybe all true rappers actually can be traced back to Howlin Wolf, or Charlie Chaplin for that matter. What I'm lmao'ing at is the fact that in the midst of an otherwise mellow thread you pop up proposing some kind of criteria for what 'real rap' is, and trying to claim rap music as intrinsically American.

It reminds me of a joke - how many hipsters does it take to screw in a light bulb? "It's a really obscure number, you probably haven't heard of it."

Setting aside the risable argument that rappers outside the US are somehow irreconcilably walled off from the soul of the style, you imply that knowledge of and deference to your hieroglyphics of rap history is some kind of shibboleth. Like shortforbob can't post a rap video - indeed, like the australian guy in the video he posted shoudln't even be rapping! - if they don't first acknowledge this history (and by extension how cool you are for knowing it).

Rather than engaging with it, "lmao" is the bunting with which I feel your argument should be festooned as it is passed by in the thread.

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I'm pretty sure a certain Jamaican DJ would disagree with the idea that hip hop started with the guy he taught it to.

Dolomite was an influence and a pioneer but sugarhill defined the genre IMO.  It's art so making pronouncements is kinda silly.  

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1 hour ago, Breamerly said:

I mean, sure. You've got some history you're tracing out here and I'm not addressing the accuracy of it one way or the other - Maybe it does go back to Dolomite. Maybe all true rappers actually can be traced back to Howlin Wolf, or Charlie Chaplin for that matter. What I'm lmao'ing at is the fact that in the midst of an otherwise mellow thread you pop up proposing some kind of criteria for what 'real rap' is, and trying to claim rap music as intrinsically American.

It reminds me of a joke - how many hipsters does it take to screw in a light bulb? "It's a really obscure number, you probably haven't heard of it."

Setting aside the risable argument that rappers outside the US are somehow irreconcilably walled off from the soul of the style, you imply that knowledge of and deference to your hieroglyphics of rap history is some kind of shibboleth. Like shortforbob can't post a rap video - indeed, like the australian guy in the video he posted shoudln't even be rapping! - if they don't first acknowledge this history (and by extension how cool you are for knowing it).

Rather than engaging with it, "lmao" is the bunting with which I feel your argument should be festooned as it is passed by in the thread.

You made the mistake of stepping in a fresh pile of shit, thus your amusement.

My only complaint was in an Australian blowing off any connection to her "original" music.

I've no problem with Australian hip hop, it's good enough, but please don't pretend that Tupac is somehow just another non-Australian music guy, while sitting in a million dollar townhouse in Melbourne.

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51 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

I'm pretty sure a certain Jamaican DJ would disagree with the idea that hip hop started with the guy he taught it to.

Dolomite was an influence and a pioneer but sugarhill defined the genre IMO.  It's art so making pronouncements is kinda silly.  

Agree, silly.

But you know that Rudy Ray Moore preceded Sugarhill by about a decade, right?

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Not quite, but his prior work is why I listed him first.  While he was a pioneer, I think sugarhill was the first to bring all the elements of what i consider rap together.  But I remember the first time I heard Run DMC, that changed me.

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On 7/22/2020 at 1:33 PM, MR.CLEAN said:

Not quite, but his prior work is why I listed him first.  While he was a pioneer, I think sugarhill was the first to bring all the elements of what i consider rap together.  But I remember the first time I heard Run DMC, that changed me.

I liked Sugarhll well enough, but Digital Underground was what blew my mind open as a kid. Shock G was so beyond anyone else at the time, he wanted to do these "rap battles" but couldn't find a sufficient number of people who could do what he did to actually make it happen, so he just invented all those alter-egos like Humpty Hump. MC Blowfish and Peanut Hakeem. He ended up battling with himself on a lot of those early recordings, nobody else could keep up with him. Then Pee Wee and Bigg Money Odis came in along with some others, and Digital Underground got better, incredible. Tommy Boy records was on every boombox in every city in the country back then.

But then Shock G hired Tupac as a backup dancer, and finally heard him rhyme. The legend goes that when Shock G finally heard Pac, that he decided he was no longer a rapper, because he could never do what Pac did, he became a musician from then on, and he was the best there was. From that point, he acted as a kind of MC to Pac.

It would be as bizarre as if Cy Young hanged up his cleats at the height of his career because he saw a teenage Willie Mays play and realized that baseball would never be the same.

I like the new Hip Hop, I like the stuff from around the world, I like the stuff that my kids listen to, and the stuff I hear on the radio. Sometimes i hear things from guys like Fearce Vill, and it's so good, but Pac used to just flood the studios with that kind of thing. Even more than two decades after his death, there are still unreleased recordings from him. The amount of work he produced, at the speed he produced it, it's hard to wrap my head around the reality that such a human existed.

 

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36 minutes ago, mikewof said:

I liked Sugarhll well enough, but Digital Underground was what blew my mind open as a kid. Shock G was so beyond anyone else at the time, he wanted to do these "rap battles" but couldn't find a sufficient number of people who could do what he did to actually make it happen, so he just invented all those alter-egos like Humpty Hump. MC Blowfish and Peanut Hakeem. He ended up battling with himself on a lot of those early recordings, nobody else could keep up with him. Then Pee Wee and Bigg Money Odis came in along with some others, and Digital Underground got better, incredible. Tommy Boy records was on every boombox in every city in the country back then.

But then Shock G hired Tupac as a backup dancer, and finally heard him rhyme. The legend goes that when Shock G finally heard Pac, that he decided he was no longer a rapper, because he could never do what Pac did, he became a musician from then on, and he was the best there was. From that point, he acted as a kind of MC to Pac.

It would be as bizarre as if Cy Young hanged up his cleats at the height of his career because he saw a teenage Willie Mays play and realized that baseball would never be the same.

I like the new Hip Hop, I like the stuff from around the world, I like the stuff that my kids listen to, and the stuff I hear on the radio. Sometimes i hear things from guys like Fearce Vill, and it's so good, but Pac used to just flood the studios with that kind of thing. Even more than two decades after his death, there are still unreleased recordings from him. The amount of work he produced, at the speed he produced it, it's hard to wrap my head around the reality that such a human existed.

 

DU and Tribe came on the scene at the same time and really split the world of rap into two as I remember it.  I just never liked DU songs but absolutely loved Quest, and the incredible Eric B.& Rakim that followed their lead, and I stayed forever on that branch of the train line.  

Now I mostly listen to french, spanish, and north african rap.  It's got all the innovation that I rarely see from US newcomers.

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On 7/22/2020 at 8:00 AM, Breamerly said:

lmaaaaaaaoo

"all rap goes back to tupac, rap is therefore a permanently, intrinsically american domain, and ne1 trying 2 imitate is just like copying monet, I have a galaxy brain" --> take of the century

@Marinatrix447 and @Shortforbob definitely will be listening while I work to a few of these weird foreigners you've posted

On 7/22/2020 at 9:06 AM, mikewof said:

All rap does not go back to Tupac. All rap does however, go back to Dolomite.

All hip hop however, goes back to Shock, who then hired Pac.

As for your "lmaaaaaaaoo" you are apparently amused easily, you'll do well here.

 

You guys sound like ghetto trash.
Rap goes back to early Africa. The new generation just added the electronic crap and  the kill culture to it.

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23 minutes ago, Meat Wad said:

 

You guys sound like ghetto trash.
Rap goes back to early Africa. The new generation just added the electronic crap and  the kill culture to it.

Finally some fucking sense in here

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10 hours ago, Meat Wad said:

 

You guys sound like ghetto trash.
Rap goes back to early Africa. The new generation just added the electronic crap and  the kill culture to it.

"Kill culture"? What is that?

How does "rap" go back to Africa? It's from NYC. Haven't you ever heard of the borough gazetteer?

Boogie Down Bronx, Money Manhattan, Backflip Brooklyn, I can't remember the one for Queens, but Wu Tang Clan gets to call Staten Island whatever they want.

I once removed a dead rat from the Wu Tang Clan's recording studio. My claim to fame!

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11 minutes ago, mikewof said:

"Kill culture"? What is that?

How does "rap" go back to Africa? It's from NYC. Haven't you ever heard of the borough gazetteer?

Boogie Down Bronx, Money Manhattan, Backflip Brooklyn, I can't remember the one for Queens, but Wu Tang Clan gets to call Staten Island whatever they want.

I once removed a dead rat from the Wu Tang Clan's recording studio. My claim to fame!

Folks, the Rap History Knower has spoken!

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2 minutes ago, Breamerly said:

Folks, the Rap History Knower has spoken!

Dointe say it licke that, sondes meane.  Mickey hase Forrestte Gumped hisself a verrey intresteng life and willeng to sharre hisse experinences withe us.......                    :)

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9 minutes ago, Breamerly said:

Folks, the Rap History Knower has spoken!

I'm just repeating what I thought was common knowledge, that rap is from NYC.

But if you say that it's from Africa, I won't argue.

If you have some links of some of this early rap from Africa, please post it. This is apparently the thread for that kind of thing.

There is a kind of rap from Algeria that I like, it's Arabic, called Rai. Good stuff. But fairly new.

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Just now, mikewof said:

I'm just repeating what I thought was common knowledge, that rap is from NYC.

But if you say that it's from Africa, I won't argue.

If you have some links of some of this early rap from Africa, please post it. This is apparently the thread for that kind of thing.

There is a kind of rap from Algeria that I like, it's Arabic, called Rai. Good stuff. But fairly new.

I'm not saying anything except that the tendency to turn lighthearted chop sessions into history lectures is tedious.

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13 minutes ago, Snaggletooth said:

Dointe say it licke that, sondes meane.  Mickey hase Forrestte Gumped hisself a verrey intresteng life and willeng to sharre hisse experinences withe us.......                    :)

I was a printer, sales call to the Wu Tang Clan recording studio, I leave and there is a dead rat in front of the doorway. The kids in the studio are freaking out, so pick up the thing and threw it away. The kids are like "you're our new printer!" I thought I finally hit paydirt, Wu Tang Clan would have been a serious score.

But I was drunk a lot back then, didn't effectively pursue it. But perhaps the alcohol in my system protected me from Pneumonic Plague. It was nothing to me because I moved a lot of dead rats back then.

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15 minutes ago, Snaggletooth said:

See poeste # 88                                :)

Thou art right, howwe didde aye evar forgeteth that the one thingie that maketh a threadde goode is a fair knight ßtüffing it uppe with his personal tailes of daring ratte handlinge and exclamations of 'prithee paiy attención to mye ëxclusive knowledge of histœry.'

Verily, nowe that the good and interestinge rappe videos hath been vanquished and thee threãd is juste him and some other guy telling stœries it is mucheth bettere, surely all will paye heed.