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TP52 - Nat J For Sale


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New ride coming.  From ScuttleB...

Also, Phil and Sharon O’Niel have purchased Victor Wild’s 2015 Botin IRC 52 Fox that will be re-named Natalie J, while their previous Natalie J is for sale (click here). Victor Wild will be joining the fleet for the Verve and GL 52 Championship with his new 52 Fox.

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20 hours ago, jackolantern said:

Guess who wins the arms race?

The CEO of the multinational “multi-level marketing” company and his no-swearing, no-drinking team.

Well at least that owner doesn’t have to worry about a crew puking in a dinghy 

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On 1/28/2020 at 11:46 PM, jackolantern said:

Guess who wins the arms race?

The CEO of the multinational “multi-level marketing” company and his no-swearing, no-drinking team.

Is that a surprise?

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On 1/28/2020 at 6:11 PM, Hitchhiker said:

Just got back from Holland Mi, surveying a couple of big boats.  The captain of one was telling me his boss is gearing up a TP52 for the new class.  

Sounds like the arms race has begun!

You knew it would happen sooner or later.  It's been a minute since the hay days of the GL 70's.  

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On 1/28/2020 at 10:46 PM, jackolantern said:

Guess who wins the arms race?

The CEO of the multinational “multi-level marketing” company and his no-swearing, no-drinking team.

We motored by them last summer after racing and one of our crew kept yelling at them asking them if they wanted a beer, and we were armed to throw them....

It didn't go over to well but we could give a f'k......

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Listen Bob, it is horses for courses and you know it.

Some boats are dry, some bring only enough for 1 beer each for after finishing, some bring a keg.

I think the chances of someone getting hurt goes up with each beer they have and this can get very expensive quickly.

That said, I plan to have one tomorrow, maybe one after each rounding...

 

Sail Safe

 

 

 

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Understood, and no imposition implied. My question is really: why be a dick to other sailors? With all the handwringing going on about decreasing numbers, why act in a way that alienates people who want to play with us. I don't claim perfection on the bot being a dick front, but I try. 

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7 minutes ago, Gangbusters said:

My first ride many years ago.

  1. Get to the boat beer
  2. leave the dock beer
  3. pre-start beer
  4. post start beer
  5. downwind leg beer
  6. not sure what came next

I'm guessing it was probably not on a Max Z86 or TP52 

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35 minutes ago, sshow bob said:

Understood, and no imposition implied. My question is really: why be a dick to other sailors? With all the handwringing going on about decreasing numbers, why act in a way that alienates people who want to play with us. I don't claim perfection on the bot being a dick front, but I try. 

i think it is a political thing

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Sailed without on board.  Too much could go sideways quickly and needed everyone to have clear head (whatever that meant for each).  Motivation factor to get to the barn AFAF so they could get stupid after the race.

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2 hours ago, SailRacer said:

Listen Bob, it is horses for courses and you know it.

Some boats are dry, some bring only enough for 1 beer each for after finishing, some bring a keg.

Back in the day my brother and I had a 3/4 Tonner.  Had a 30 mile race down to a buoy and back.  Boring as hell....  The rail meat was doing their job on the weather rail, but were getting bored.  My wife worked for a brewery at the time, so we got 3 free cases a month.....the boat was always well stocked and it was easy finding crew.  Well, one of them snuck below as the race wore on and they hoisted a case of brew to share on the rail.  Turns out after finishing a beer they would twist the flip top and line the empties up on the lifelines...  What a friggin' train wreck.  Lumpy passed out on the weather rail with no shirt on.....nasty burn except where he had his hands folded on his ample belly.....  Good times

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5 hours ago, proOC said:

We motored by them last summer after racing and one of our crew kept yelling at them asking them if they wanted a beer, and we were armed to throw them....

It didn't go over to well but we could give a f'k......

I can promise you that while the boat is dry you will still find plenty of colorful language on board and also plenty of libations after sailing. 

Maybe it didnt go over well because the the crew knew a cold one wasn't more than a stones throw away, or you guys were just being uninformed dickheads trying to make a joke because you stereotyped someone you dont know.

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9 minutes ago, Wang said:

I can promise you that while the boat is dry you will still find plenty of colorful language on board and also plenty of libations after sailing. 

Maybe it didnt go over well because the the crew knew a cold one wasn't more than a stones throw away, or you guys were just being uninformed dickheads trying to make a joke because you stereotyped someone you dont know.

Geez Wang....chill and by the way, a couple of the guys that reacted were fine with it.  Now don't go on stereotyping me or my crew as well... 

 

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36 minutes ago, Wang said:

I can promise you that while the boat is dry you will still find plenty of colorful language on board and also plenty of libations after sailing. 

Maybe it didnt go over well because the the crew knew a cold one wasn't more than a stones throw away, or you guys were just being uninformed dickheads trying to make a joke because you stereotyped someone you dont know.

Maybe trade in that NA beer for a tall glass of HTFU. 

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10 hours ago, Gangbusters said:

My first ride many years ago.

  1. Get to the boat beer
  2. leave the dock beer
  3. pre-start beer
  4. post start beer
  5. downwind leg beer
  6. not sure what came next

Most likely sailed like shit, won nothing, but still told everyone you were awesome because you drank beer on a boat.

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6 minutes ago, Gorn FRANTIC!! said:

Most likely sailed like shit, won nothing, but still told everyone you were awesome because you drank beer on a boat.

Morgan 1 ton, 1975 and I was 21. Not sure if we were successful or complete failures. It was my intro into sailboat racing and 45 years later I’m still at it. I can only remember one time bragging at the YC and that’s because I had a newborn son. I’m sure when I’m gone the flags and trophies will get a proper send off at the curb.

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At sea a drink or two a day, & yes I will have a beer going to windward in 40 knots,  downwind-not while I steer!

Around the buoys as long as everyone is sensible,  a few are fine.

And yes I have one a race or two on both wet & dry boats,  I currently race one of each, & strangely it is the offshore boat that takes a few drinks.

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7 hours ago, TUBBY said:

At sea a drink or two a day, & yes I will have a beer going to windward in 40 knots,  downwind-not while I steer!

Around the buoys as long as everyone is sensible,  a few are fine.

And yes I have one a race or two on both wet & dry boats,  I currently race one of each, & strangely it is the offshore boat that takes a few drinks.

Your boat goes 40knots? I call bullshit 

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I'm not seeing why "no drinking" is such a big deal. Would you pound a sixer of beer and go out and play football? It's a sport FFS. I don't agree with the individual we are referencing here politically or religiously, but I have to agree with him on this one. On our boat we have a simple rule. You can drink all you want, but not until we cross the finish line. Last time I checked most people don't have a problem making up for lost drinking time. 

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On 1/31/2020 at 12:28 PM, Wang said:

I can promise you that while the boat is dry you will still find plenty of colorful language on board and also plenty of libations after sailing. 

Maybe it didnt go over well because the the crew knew a cold one wasn't more than a stones throw away, or you guys were just being uninformed dickheads trying to make a joke because you stereotyped someone you dont know.

You seem a bit touchy. I think I’d rather be on the fun boat, and that has nothing to do with alcohol. 

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On 1/31/2020 at 7:51 AM, sshow bob said:

Could someone explain why it's not ok for a skipper to decide to run a sober boat? Or why it's cool to fuck people just because they're on a sober boat? I don't get the joke. 

For the people not from (lake) Michigan, the boat in question is all paid crew, paid for by a "multi-level marketing" company closely associated with certain political/religious ideas.  So a large portion of the population are ok with making fun of them for anything/everything.  If they weren't a sober boat they would be made fun of for something else.

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I understand. I just think if we want to keep playing our game we ought to not ostracize other players. I slip on that ideal. I do not claim sainthood. But I aspire to leaving my politics at the dock and appreciating other sailors for their sailing.  Unless they have a history of foul play. 

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17 hours ago, Cristoforo said:

Your boat goes 40knots? I call bullshit 

IN 40,  I thought the "to windward" might have given that away!

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I dont drink while racing, I dont care if my crew do. But please dont get 'stupid' .  We have seen female crew wander away because crew guy xxx just cant hold his booze and thus his tongue. Some lay line misses with 'we cant tack till we find a place to sit our beers'  and the marriage is over because a spousal partner found guy xxx banging in the fore peak post regatta. Its been fun but I dont drink while racing. As long as nobody gets hurt and you dont hit me I dont care what your boat has going on. 

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On 1/31/2020 at 9:45 AM, Cristoforo said:

maybe one of the crew once puked on their dinghy and ruined it for everyone! 

Or puked on the life raft. 

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20 hours ago, sshow bob said:

I understand. I just think if we want to keep playing our game we ought to not ostracize other players. I slip on that ideal. I do not claim sainthood. But I aspire to leaving my politics at the dock and appreciating other sailors for their sailing.  Unless they have a history of foul play. 

This is an 86ft boat that races twice a year in races where the average boat half the length or less.  The crew flies in and flies out.  They aren't even playing the same game.

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9 hours ago, TUBBY said:

IN 40,  I thought the "to windward" might have given that away!

I'd truly like to see a picture of you casually sipping a beer going to windward in 40 knots true. 

Makes me think you may suffer from the common poster's malady of wind speed inflation.   Or you really like watered down beer being blown in your face. 

Meanwhile, back to the OP, I'd be willing to bet an at-the-dock beer that all the posters here bragging about pre-race beers and mark-rounding beers and such have never sailed on a boat like Natalie J., and if they had, they wouldn't be invited to a second time.

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3 hours ago, eastern motors said:

This is an 86ft boat that races twice a year in races where the average boat half the length or less.  The crew flies in and flies out.  They aren't even playing the same game.

Oh they're playing the same game.  Just at a very different entry fee!

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5 hours ago, eastern motors said:

This is an 86ft boat that races twice a year in races where the average boat half the length or less.  The crew flies in and flies out.  They aren't even playing the same game.

I understand. I stand by my comments.

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13 hours ago, Left Shift said:

I'd truly like to see a picture of you casually sipping a beer going to windward in 40 knots true. 

Makes me think you may suffer from the common poster's malady of wind speed inflation.   Or you really like watered down beer being blown in your face. 

Meanwhile, back to the OP, I'd be willing to bet an at-the-dock beer that all the posters here bragging about pre-race beers and mark-rounding beers and such have never sailed on a boat like Natalie J., and if they had, they wouldn't be invited to a second time.

Just updated my log,  just over 66K miles including 23 Hobarts (& and 21 returns).

I think I have some idea what 40 looks like, and I try not to sail on the sort of boats that make that scary.

But I will say that going to windward on an old aluminium 80 foot IOR Maxi in 60 was awe inspiring!  

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4 hours ago, TUBBY said:

Just updated my log,  just over 66K miles including 23 Hobarts (& and 21 returns).

I think I have some idea what 40 looks like, and I try not to sail on the sort of boats that make that scary.

But I will say that going to windward on an old aluminium 80 foot IOR Maxi in 60 was awe inspiring!  

Tubby is  a sock for Lord Ian Dubin 

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On 2/2/2020 at 7:59 PM, eastern motors said:

This is an 86ft boat that races twice a year in races where the average boat half the length or less.  The crew flies in and flies out.  (...) 

And I bet they are claiming “line honours” or even “victory” for so many dozen times in a row. (We call that “gazpromming” over here.) 

 

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10 hours ago, Cristoforo said:

Tubby is  a sock for Lord Ian Dubin 

Ah no,  Tubby is .....  well Tubby.

Not hiding behind a screen name,  very few people refer to me as anything else (printable).

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On 2/2/2020 at 4:09 PM, Left Shift said:

I'd truly like to see a picture of you casually sipping a beer going to windward in 40 knots true. 

Makes me think you may suffer from the common poster's malady of wind speed inflation.   Or you really like watered down beer being blown in your face. 

Meanwhile, back to the OP, I'd be willing to bet an at-the-dock beer that all the posters here bragging about pre-race beers and mark-rounding beers and such have never sailed on a boat like Natalie J., and if they had, they wouldn't be invited to a second time.

Gonna have to disagree.  If you've got the right sails up and the boat balanced, 40 true can be comfortable in the right conditions.  Especially when the wind is coming from shore so the waves aren't bad, or if you're in the ocean where they aren't the choppy short period waves you get on the Great Lakes.  Sailed on a C&C 35 in the Trans Superior several times where it piped up to that speed from the South West.  Flat water allowed easy pinching to depower and most all the bosts were just hauling ass down the coast.  Had to make sure you gave yourself some room so you weren't picking up the gusts and shifts the treeline was creating, but other than that it was a nice sail.

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21 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

you've never sailed in 40 knots?  If you're on a heavy enough pig, you can drink a beer just fine.

I've raced often in 40 knots.  Never once have I said, "Mmmm a beer would taste good right now, blended with all this saltwater spray in my face."   No one on my crew would expect one to be available.  And since we are discussing TP52s here, 40 knots would definitely be "arrive alive" weather.   Getting the main down had better have happened 10 knots ago.

I find that what people usually describe as 40 knots in the bar is usually in the low 30s.  There is a huge difference.

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7 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

I've raced often in 40 knots.  Never once have I said, "Mmmm a beer would taste good right now, blended with all this saltwater spray in my face."   No one on my crew would expect one to be available.  And since we are discussing TP52s here, 40 knots would definitely be "arrive alive" weather.   Getting the main down had better have happened 10 knots ago.

I find that what people usually describe as 40 knots in the bar is usually in the low 30s.  There is a huge difference.

Considering the discussion is about TP52’s on the Great Lakes, if you’re worried about salt water, I sincerely hope you never get asked to navigate. 

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14 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

I've raced often in 40 knots.  Never once have I said, "Mmmm a beer would taste good right now, blended with all this saltwater spray in my face."   No one on my crew would expect one to be available.  And since we are discussing TP52s here, 40 knots would definitely be "arrive alive" weather.   Getting the main down had better have happened 10 knots ago.

I find that what people usually describe as 40 knots in the bar is usually in the low 30s.  There is a huge difference.

 I've sailed in over 50 for more than 24 hours (a real 50, not some warm tropical bullshit), and a beer tasted delicious.  A joint was even better.  I actually made french toast in it.  Heaving to in a long keel sloop can be a joy.  

The poster 'in 40' was not talking about sailing on a TP52, and just because you think you're a badass for sailing in 40, it's no big deal for people who sail in the deep south or cross oceans.  Only part timers pat themselves on the back for surviving the juicy stuff.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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On 2/3/2020 at 3:52 PM, 10thTonner said:

And I bet they are claiming “line honours” or even “victory” for so many dozen times in a row. (We call that “gazpromming” over here.) 

 

Even though they have been getting their ass kicked lately in line honors too

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3 hours ago, Left Shift said:

I've raced often in 40 knots.  Never once have I said, "Mmmm a beer would taste good right now, blended with all this saltwater spray in my face."   No one on my crew would expect one to be available.  And since we are discussing TP52s here, 40 knots would definitely be "arrive alive" weather.   Getting the main down had better have happened 10 knots ago.

I find that what people usually describe as 40 knots in the bar is usually in the low 30s.  There is a huge difference.

Down here our TPs are a bit more resilient.

The last time I sailed one we blew out our FRO in about 35 knots, (boats speed consistently in the high teens to mid 20s, topped out at 29.8).

Wind topped out at 42 true while we were carrying a full main & JT,  yes at about 130 true so not to windward.

While I have yet to race a TP to windward in a good blow,  (the race I  quoted above was a 1200+ mile reach done in just over 4 days). Racing against the local Sydney  (Aus) fleet I have often passed them (going the other way), in  30-35 knots and they are usually still only carrying a single reef along with a #4 or #5.  They always look bloody wet though!

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5 hours ago, Left Shift said:

I've raced often in 40 knots.  Never once have I said, "Mmmm a beer would taste good right now, blended with all this saltwater spray in my face."   No one on my crew would expect one to be available.  And since we are discussing TP52s here, 40 knots would definitely be "arrive alive" weather.   Getting the main down had better have happened 10 knots ago.

I find that what people usually describe as 40 knots in the bar is usually in the low 30s.  There is a huge difference.

Bar was closed on my boat long before 40 knots in a race  

Sure Mr Clean could drink or have a joint in a gale between watches.  Once. 

Easy to blowhard when it’s not your boat or you aren’t responsible for  others. 

We started  talking with respect to racing.  Who heaves-to in a race to smoke a joint? 

 

 

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21 hours ago, TUBBY said:

Down here our TPs are a bit more resilient.

The last time I sailed one we blew out our FRO in about 35 knots, (boats speed consistently in the high teens to mid 20s, topped out at 29.8).

Wind topped out at 42 true while we were carrying a full main & JT,  yes at about 130 true so not to windward.

While I have yet to race a TP to windward in a good blow,  (the race I  quoted above was a 1200+ mile reach done in just over 4 days). Racing against the local Sydney  (Aus) fleet I have often passed them (going the other way), in  30-35 knots and they are usually still only carrying a single reef along with a #4 or #5.  They always look bloody wet though!

The bolded part doesn't sound all that resilient.  In those wind speeds things break, and it gets expensive quickly.  But all that can be done with pinhead, reefable mains and a J-4 or J-5 and recognizing that 40 TWS is a LOT more wind than 30 TWS.    The ones around here are using fathead mains with no reef points and are sailing inshore for 95% of the races.   The A-5 kites are rated to 40 TWS.

I've reached a TP off in 35+ True and at 25K BS the spray becomes a firehose. Makes me not at all want to do a leg on the southern ocean.  

 

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20 hours ago, Cristoforo said:

Bar was closed on my boat long before 40 knots in a race  

Sure Mr Clean could drink or have a joint in a gale between watches.  Once. 

 Easy to blowhard when it’s not your boat or you aren’t responsible for  others. 

We started  talking with respect to racing.  Who heaves-to in a race to smoke a joint? 

 

 

for fuck's sake you really can't read can you?  Find 'racing' in my post.  Then find where I wrote that we hove to in order to smoke a joint. I'll wait. 

Reminds me of how I have to tell my kid to read all the way to the bottom of the page.

 

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On 2/5/2020 at 6:47 AM, MR.CLEAN said:

  Heaving to in a long keel sloop can be a joy.  

Respectfully, getting a blowjob is a joy.

Heaving to in a long keel sloop is... making the best of a bad situation?

Even if both of these things can involve beer and French toast. Do you put cinnamon in the egg wash?

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7 minutes ago, Jason AUS said:

Respectfully, getting a blowjob is a joy.

Heaving to in a long keel sloop is... making the best of a bad situation?

Even if both of these things can involve beer and French toast. Do you put cinnamon in the egg wash?

 

Joy is relative.   Compared to reaching under triple reefed dacron and a storm jib in 45+ and 25 foot biscay waves with breaking tops, the 24 hours we sat hove to aboard Samantha Jane was a joy indeed.  I might have even got a blowjob from the boat's namesake during the same storm.

Cinnamon and nutmeg, of course.  A tiny bit of cumin is my secret ingredient though.

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1 minute ago, MR.CLEAN said:

 

Joy is relative.   Compared to reaching under triple reefed dacron and a storm jib in 45+ and 25 foot biscay waves with breaking tops, the 24 hours we sat hove to aboard Samantha Jane was a joy indeed.  I might have even got a blowjob from the boat's namesake during the same storm.

Cinnamon and nutmeg, of course.  A tiny bit of cumin is my secret ingredient though.

Cum... in?

 

A dash of Orange juice is what I’d normally add to the egg and cinnamon. Just for a hint of citrus.

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Eight boats signed up to race on the Great Lakes this summer with one or two more potentially?  It will be interesting to watch and Harbor Springs could be awesome.

 

2020 Great Lakes 52 (GL52) Season Series
Preliminary Scratch Sheet

Class Specific Report:    SelectGreat Lakes 52
      Bow Sail Number Yacht Name Owner/Skipper Yacht Club Home Port Yacht Type Length Rating

Racing Area: GL52 Season Series
  Division: ORR  
      Great Lakes 52
    1.   sm_none_5.png  USA 1 FOX Victor Wild New York Y.C./ San Diego Y.C./ Royal New Zealand Yacht Squadron San Diego, CA, USA TP52 52  
    2. 19 sm_none_5.png  USA 88528 Heartbreaker Robert and Laura Hughes Macatawa Bay Ada, MI, USA TP52 52  
    3.   sm_none_5.png  USA 5210 Interlodge Austin and Gwen Fragomen NYYC Newport, RI, USA Botin 52  
    4.   sm_none_5.png  USA 52329 Mockingbird Chris Duhon ColYC / USMMA Key Largo, FL, USA TP52 52  
    5.   North Sails  USA 5252 Natalie J Philip and Sharon O'Niel III Bayview Y.C. / Storm Trysail Club Bloomfield Hills, MI, USA TP52 52  
    6.   Doyle Sailmakers  USA 3545 Rio Manouch Moshayedi St. Francis Yacht Club Corona Del Mar, CA, USA Pac52 52  
    7.   sm_none_5.png  USA 52012 Vincitore Gary Feracota / Jim Banovitz Chicago Yacht Club Hawthorn Woods, IL, USA RP52 52  
    8.   sm_none_5.png  USA 52015 Windquest Doug DeVos MBYC Macatawa, MI, USA TP52 52  
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3 hours ago, Rod Spearin said:

Eight boats signed up to race on the Great Lakes this summer with one or two more potentially?  It will be interesting to watch and Harbor Springs could be awesome.

 

2020 Great Lakes 52 (GL52) Season Series
Preliminary Scratch Sheet

Class Specific Report:    SelectGreat Lakes 52
      Bow Sail Number Yacht Name Owner/Skipper Yacht Club Home Port Yacht Type Length Rating

Racing Area: GL52 Season Series
  Division: ORR  
      Great Lakes 52
    1.   sm_none_5.png  USA 1 FOX Victor Wild New York Y.C./ San Diego Y.C./ Royal New Zealand Yacht Squadron San Diego, CA, USA TP52 52  
    2. 19 sm_none_5.png  USA 88528 Heartbreaker Robert and Laura Hughes Macatawa Bay Ada, MI, USA TP52 52  
    3.   sm_none_5.png  USA 5210 Interlodge Austin and Gwen Fragomen NYYC Newport, RI, USA Botin 52  
    4.   sm_none_5.png  USA 52329 Mockingbird Chris Duhon ColYC / USMMA Key Largo, FL, USA TP52 52  
    5.   North Sails  USA 5252 Natalie J Philip and Sharon O'Niel III Bayview Y.C. / Storm Trysail Club Bloomfield Hills, MI, USA TP52 52  
    6.   Doyle Sailmakers  USA 3545 Rio Manouch Moshayedi St. Francis Yacht Club Corona Del Mar, CA, USA Pac52 52  
    7.   sm_none_5.png  USA 52012 Vincitore Gary Feracota / Jim Banovitz Chicago Yacht Club Hawthorn Woods, IL, USA RP52 52  
    8.   sm_none_5.png  USA 52015 Windquest Doug DeVos MBYC Macatawa, MI, USA TP52 52  

heard rumblings today that another one (gen 1 maybe gen 2 TP)   may likely be coming to the Great lakes, this summer to join the fun and stay.  As well as another, already here and up for grabs,  very close to having the trigger pulled on, that would  remain  here as well!  Everybody buy a TP 52 right now!!!!

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