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2020 Primaries - Let The Games Begin


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17 minutes ago, LenP said:

Yes, but that won't stop it either, since it would be seen as partisan. The person who stops it will need to be so bad, that there is bipartisan agreement that executive powers must be curtailed. 

I can't wait for the first Sentate Subpoenas about Burisma.  Response from the WH will be "what, you think we need to talk to you?"

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Penned by a student of mine. Kid nails it.  “Last week I listened to an NPR news story about commercial aircraft cleaners' health concerns in the wake of the coronavirus outbreak, and it presente

Good old @Dog - what a moran. Lower taxes: record deficits Less regulation: nice re-emergence of workplace deaths and pollution, Winning! Secure Borders: What a joke. Obama kicked ass

I'd just like to have someone in that office who recognizes the Constitutional limitations of it, especially if we are going to have a Congress that is willing to look the other way if he doesn't. Hav

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21 minutes ago, jerseyguy said:

Apologies if  this has been posted elsewhere.

Elizabeth Warren has dropped out of the race.

Elizabeth Warren ends presidential bid, declines to make an endorsement

https://www.yahoo.com/news/elizabeth-warren-to-end-bid-for-democratic-nomination-reports-155833801.html

And the market drops 1,000 points.  Must mean big money fears Biden-Bernie debates. ;)

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1 hour ago, LenP said:
4 hours ago, Raz'r said:

The courts have said they won’t get involved. I bet Moscow Mitch might find his spine when Biden sends his first EOs across. 

Yes, but that won't stop it either, since it would be seen as partisan. The person who stops it will need to be so bad, that there is bipartisan agreement that executive powers must be curtailed. 

Ya think? I bet when Trump orders a drone strike on Mitt Romney's house, the Trumpublicans will line up and cheer.

IMHO that train has left the station. There is no Congressional oversight power any more. We are effectively electing a dictator, which is why I think voting is unlikely to make any difference from here on out.

I hope I'm wrong

- DSK

 

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2 hours ago, jerseyguy said:

Apologies if  this has been posted elsewhere.

Elizabeth Warren has dropped out of the race.

Elizabeth Warren ends presidential bid, declines to make an endorsement

https://www.yahoo.com/news/elizabeth-warren-to-end-bid-for-democratic-nomination-reports-155833801.html

I have followed her for some time and attended a rally last Saturday - she has made it crystal clear that the #1 objective is to get Trump out, she congratulated Biden that night when announcing his win in SC - when some started to boo she reminded them what is important. I expect her to throw her full support to whoever wins the primary. I also hopes she keeps her grass roots folks to launch her to the WH in 2024. Anyone that sees and cares what has happened to the middle class in the US should ignore the crap and investigate her plans.  Think Bernie without baggage.  A Liz/Pete ticket then could be awesome on several levels.

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Ms. Liz paid the price for treating us as adults by giving us so much more than tired platitudes. 

My chump change (but not to me) donations to her were money well spent. 

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On 3/3/2020 at 8:50 PM, Jules said:

Let's not forget the tornado Trump ordered for Nashville.  But not to worry, they extended voting until 11PM tonight.  Should be enough time to extricate yourself from the 2x4s burying you in your tub.

Speaking of that - talk about being entirely devoid of a soul.

'Zero-empathy' Trump shows lack of emotion when told about 8-year-old boy's family being killed in tornado

He sounds like he thinks this is the coolest thing he's ever heard.

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Newsweek says this is real.    If it’s been posted, apologies.    I’ve grown tired of this cesspool.    If it’s fake, I’ll celebrate.   Either the man is sleep deprived, or he’s as senile as Trump.    I think the Republic is FUCKED.   

 

 

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The general election debates are going to be nasty.  Better hope Joe has a fantastic VP selection.  Is it too late for Warren to step in?  Michele?

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7 hours ago, Lark said:

Newsweek says this is real.    If it’s been posted, apologies.    I’ve grown tired of this cesspool.    If it’s fake, I’ll celebrate.   Either the man is sleep deprived, or he’s as senile as Trump.    I think the Republic is FUCKED.   

He might just need to have a seat.

 

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On 3/7/2020 at 4:33 PM, Plenipotentiary Tom said:

I understand that's actually better than wearing a boot AS a campaign hat.

635852593653484070-Outtakes-AP-A-ELN-NH-

His FB post yesterday is an instant classic. On video, straddling the NJ/PA state line on the bridge over the Delaware, lighting up a one hitter. “Let’s see you do THAT, Joe Biden!”

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1 minute ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

His FB post yesterday is an instant classic. On video, straddling the NJ/PA state line on the bridge over the Delaware, lighting up a one hitter. “Let’s see you do THAT, Joe Biden!”

I wish stuff like that could be shared from FB. Maybe it's on youtube or vimeo, I haven't looked.

As for Biden, he wants to see more research before we talk about the drug scheduling that largely prevents such research. Ummm... makes as much sense as usual, much like his discredited "gateway drug" propaganda. He's a half step better than Bloomberg on that issue, which is damning with faint praise for those who don't know.

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7 hours ago, Lark said:

Newsweek says this is real.    If it’s been posted, apologies.    I’ve grown tired of this cesspool.    If it’s fake, I’ll celebrate.   Either the man is sleep deprived, or he’s as senile as Trump.    I think the Republic is FUCKED.   

 

 

Manipulated Biden Video Escalates Online Speech War With Trump

The video came from a stump speech by Mr. Biden on Saturday in Kansas City, Mo., where he appeared to struggle through a sentence and with halting words said, “We can only re-elect Donald Trump.”

But the rest of Mr. Biden’s sentence was selectively edited out. In full, Mr. Biden was stressing the need for Democrats to unite against Mr. Trump.

“We can only re-elect Donald Trump if in fact we get engaged in this circular firing squad here. It’s got to be a positive campaign,” he said.

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2 hours ago, Plenipotentiary Tom said:

He might just need to have a seat.

Every town hall has chairs for the candidate and hose to sit in.  I saw Sanders sit in the chair once, but only for a few moments.  None of the candidates in primaries seemed to like using of them.  The debates are about energizing people, and most want to see these two in the ring.  Not sitting at a fucking desk!

WTF is the DNC thinking?

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13 hours ago, bridhb said:

The general election debates are going to be nasty.  Better hope Joe has a fantastic VP selection.  Is it too late for Warren to step in?  Michele?

I'm hoping for a Mike Pence/Mayor Pete VP debate.

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15 minutes ago, Nice! said:

I'm hoping for a Mike Pence/Mayor Pete VP debate.

I watched a little of Axios yesterday.  Donnie Psycho, Jr. was being interviewed with FOX old farts in the audience.  (I know, that's being redundant)

Junior says he wants debate between him and Hunter Biden.  That got a lot of people clapping.  For what!?!  To argue who has benefited the most from their fathers?

Pick this video up at about 1:30

 

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5 hours ago, Bus Driver said:

Manipulated Biden Video Escalates Online Speech War With Trump

The video came from a stump speech by Mr. Biden on Saturday in Kansas City, Mo., where he appeared to struggle through a sentence and with halting words said, “We can only re-elect Donald Trump.”

But the rest of Mr. Biden’s sentence was selectively edited out. In full, Mr. Biden was stressing the need for Democrats to unite against Mr. Trump.

“We can only re-elect Donald Trump if in fact we get engaged in this circular firing squad here. It’s got to be a positive campaign,” he said.

He still fumbles and bumbles around a LOT!  It's not hard to see this during the debates and town halls.  He doesn't have the mental acuity he had when he left office.   

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2 minutes ago, Jules said:
5 hours ago, Bus Driver said:

Manipulated Biden Video Escalates Online Speech War With Trump

The video came from a stump speech by Mr. Biden on Saturday in Kansas City, Mo., where he appeared to struggle through a sentence and with halting words said, “We can only re-elect Donald Trump.”

But the rest of Mr. Biden’s sentence was selectively edited out. In full, Mr. Biden was stressing the need for Democrats to unite against Mr. Trump.

“We can only re-elect Donald Trump if in fact we get engaged in this circular firing squad here. It’s got to be a positive campaign,” he said.

He still fumbles and bumbles around a LOT!  It's not hard to see this during the debates and town halls.  He doesn't have the mental acuity he had when he left office.

Oh, I completely agree.  He is nowhere near as sharp as he was just a few years ago.

That said, fumbling and bumbling is not in the same universe as outright lying and sharing doctored videos.

President Trump will forever be known as the first Twitter user to have a post "flagged" under their new policy to expose bullshit.

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Read this prediction somewhere....Biden bows out on the advice of his doctors. He endorses Hillary who announces she will reluctantly run because the future of America is at stake. She selects Bloomberg (who happens to have a fully staffed and financed campaign infrastructure ready to go) as her running mate.

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8 minutes ago, Dog said:

Read this prediction somewhere....Biden bows out on the advice of his doctors. He endorses Hillary who announces she will reluctantly run because the future of America is at stake. She selects Bloomberg (who happens to have a fully staffed and financed campaign infrastructure ready to go) as her running mate.

Assuming that to be the scenario - how will you vote?  

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40 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

Assuming that to be the scenario - how will you vote?  

Probably for the deplorable unless there's a better option.

You guys going to elect Shelia Dixon again?

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52 minutes ago, Dog said:

Read this prediction somewhere....Biden bows out on the advice of his doctors. He endorses Hillary who announces she will reluctantly run because the future of America is at stake. She selects Bloomberg (who happens to have a fully staffed and financed campaign infrastructure ready to go) as her running mate.

Senator Clinton is the toxic boogeyman the Republicans keep reincarnating to scare the little children.   The Democrats wouldn't bother with her.  They would just create an animatronic avatar controlled by the mega banks, and have that elected President.  If corporations are people, a conglomeration of multiple corporations is surely better then one orange shyster and his grifting family.    That truth will appeal to the shared values of both parties, so the crossover vote will be immense.

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20 minutes ago, Dog said:

Probably for the deplorable unless there's a better option.

You guys going to elect Shelia Dixon again?

Why isn't your hero addressing the nation?  Because he can't even pretend to assure us that we will weather the current storm.  He has the leadership skills and intelligence of a slug.  Only the morons in the south could possibly justify the oxygen this fuckwit breathes.

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21 minutes ago, Dog said:

Probably for the deplorable unless there's a better option.

You guys going to elect Shelia Dixon again?

Which "deplorable" would that be?  Name, please.  Go on record.  

Gawd, I wish Ms. Dixon would just fade into the woodwork.  She is Baltimore's Marion Barry.

One winter, I was busy snowblowing our little courts driveway.  At one point, I need to direct the snow out into the median of the street.  There was maybe 8-10" on the ground and the plows had yet to make a second pass.  Approaching the street, the ejected snow crossed the street and landed in the median.  A city inspector pulled up and waved me over to his car.  I shook my head "No" and waved for him to join me out in the elements.  When he did so, in a nasty tone, he said "I could give you a $250 fine for any snow you put in the road>". I smiled and said "Tell your boss I'll pay it in gift cards."  He got in his vehicle and left.

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I can't be the oldest person on this site, and I grew up where the last thing on the evening news was that day's body count in Vietnam.  I can see a Dem candidate commercial where they mention Trump's reduction in areas that would have helped combat this latest virus along with the death count.  That coupled with his reduced budget for Social Security and he is fucked.  He can snort all the Adderall he wants but it won't change anything.  I will be happy when he is in public housing as a prisoner.  

Edit: Michigan is going Biden in a big way and will in the General.  

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1 hour ago, Dog said:

Read this prediction somewhere....Biden bows out on the advice of his doctors. He endorses Hillary who announces she will reluctantly run because the future of America is at stake. She selects Bloomberg (who happens to have a fully staffed and financed campaign infrastructure ready to go) as her running mate.

Me likey...  Would rather have someone besides hillary (or biden for that matter), but it would be fun, if not alittle bit psychotic....  You really really want to get his base whipped up, do this..... I really Really want to see heads explode...:ph34r:  Not the best way to go about changing things tho...

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As his kingdom dissolves, Trump will provide plenty of entertainment.  Come November, the American public will tell him, You're Fired!  

Asshole will be dead shortly thereafter rather than living with the shame.  Don Jr will go to prison for something and fall in love.  Eric will donate his brain to science and never miss it.  Ivanka will dump Jared who will become the spokesperson for Subway.  She and Michelle will cover Ebony and Ivory that will be at the top of the charts for years.  She will also write a bestseller, Daddy Dearest Fucked Me.  No expectation of signing anyone to do the movie.  

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31 minutes ago, Cal20sailor said:

As his kingdom dissolves, Trump will provide plenty of entertainment.  Come November, the American public will tell him, You're Fired!  

Asshole will be dead shortly thereafter rather than living with the shame.  Don Jr will go to prison for something and fall in love.  Eric will donate his brain to science and never miss it.  Ivanka will dump Jared who will become the spokesperson for Subway.  She and Michelle will cover Ebony and Ivory that will be at the top of the charts for years.  She will also write a bestseller, Daddy Dearest Fucked Me.  No expectation of signing anyone to do the movie.  

Tomi Lahren can act can't she?

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1 hour ago, Lark said:

Senator Clinton is the toxic boogeyman the Republicans keep reincarnating to scare the little children.   The Democrats wouldn't bother with her.  They would just create an animatronic avatar controlled by the mega banks, and have that elected President.  If corporations are people, a conglomeration of multiple corporations is surely better then one orange shyster and his grifting family.    That truth will appeal to the shared values of both parties, so the crossover vote will be immense.

I don't know.  She sure gets a lot of attention from the moderates, in particular the media pundits. 

But it does seem the DNC isn't as upfront about Hillary love.  Maybe she should endorse Bernie and let the DNC use that against him. ;)

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1 hour ago, Cal20sailor said:

As his kingdom dissolves, Trump will provide plenty of entertainment.  Come November, the American public will tell him, You're Fired!  

Never underestimate the power of the conservatives.  They put spells on people.

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1 hour ago, Bus Driver said:
2 hours ago, Dog said:

Probably for the deplorable unless there's a better option.

You guys going to elect Shelia Dixon again?

Which "deplorable" would that be?  Name, please.  Go on record.  

Waiting for @Dog to be specific.

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9 hours ago, Jules said:

Every town hall has chairs for the candidate and host to sit in.  I saw Sanders sit in the chair once, but only for a few moments.  None of the candidates in primaries seemed to like using of them.  The debates are about energizing people, and most want to see these two in the ring.  Not sitting at a fucking desk!

WTF is the DNC thinking?

Crickets....

Don't the Biden Bros want to see Joe go toe-to-toe with Bernie?

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14 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

It’s not grifting when you use campaign donations to pay your legal bills, buy your sons book, pay your sons, pay your sons spouses, and spend millions at your properties..... because Trump.

Just waiting for @atyourcervix to answer. 

Maybe he sees the quandary of bitching about something introduced by his cute meme, all while turning a blind eye to the same thing being done by his team.

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15 hours ago, Bus Driver said:

Which "deplorable" would that be?  Name, please.  Go on record.  

Gawd, I wish Ms. Dixon would just fade into the woodwork.  She is Baltimore's Marion Barry.

One winter, I was busy snowblowing our little courts driveway.  At one point, I need to direct the snow out into the median of the street.  There was maybe 8-10" on the ground and the plows had yet to make a second pass.  Approaching the street, the ejected snow crossed the street and landed in the median.  A city inspector pulled up and waved me over to his car.  I shook my head "No" and waved for him to join me out in the elements.  When he did so, in a nasty tone, he said "I could give you a $250 fine for any snow you put in the road>". I smiled and said "Tell your boss I'll pay it in gift cards."  He got in his vehicle and left.

I would go for Trump over Hillary. At least I would get policy closer to my preferences.

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13 minutes ago, Dog said:

I would go for Trump over Hillary. At least I would get policy closer to my preferences.

Thankfully, there is no Hillary (so far) running this election.  During the FOX town hall yesterday, they showed a clip where Hillary trashed Bernie.  She was petty, vindictive and bitter.  We don't need that in our president.

When Bernie was baited to address Biden's gaffs, he refused.  They kept trying to bait him, going so far as to show clips of Booker questioning Biden's fitness for office, a similar such piece on Morning Joe, and a clip of Julian Castro taking Biden on at a debate.  Bernie wouldn't bite.  Go to 2:00 to see it

What's interesting is Booker just endorsed Biden and Morning Joe now treats Biden with kid gloves.  Politics is such bullshit.

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Politics involves humans and we all have worts.

I got a text from a Bernie activist.  I asked her to support Biden in the general election.  She responded that she would.

If Bernie wins, it is a no brainer that he gets my vote in the general election.

Nothing is taken for granted.  From the military to the environment to the health care system, all will change for the better with the Democratic Party in control.

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3 minutes ago, Plenipotentiary Tom said:

I thought only people who brew beer did?

Stick with wino's if you plan to stick it.

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1 hour ago, hasher said:

Politics involves humans and we all have worts.

I got a text from a Bernie activist.  I asked her to support Biden in the general election.  She responded that she would.

If Bernie wins, it is a no brainer that he gets my vote in the general election.

Nothing is taken for granted.  From the military to the environment to the health care system, all will change for the better with the Democratic Party in control.

Y'all keep saying that, and when asked for specifics?  All ya come up with is a list of the things that you don't like about the Rs.

We'll wait and see - I don't see either party doing much more than maneuvering to solidify their partisan advantage. 

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15 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Y'all keep saying that, and when asked for specifics?  All ya come up with is a list of the things that you don't like about the Rs.

We'll wait and see - I don't see either party doing much more than maneuvering to solidify their partisan advantage. 

I expect my opinions only reflect one.  Y'all can be plural or singular.

I don't want to drown my government in a bathtub.  In a perfect world, we wouldn't need laws to conform behavior.  There is a need to join together for things like roads.  We lack adequate public transit because of the greed of those who profit on roads.

The Democratic Party stands for workers, the environment and human rights.

The Republican Party is the little don:  vulgar, ignorant and selfish.

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43 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

Thank you.  Saving this for posterity.

I don't delete my posts.

Do me a favor, when in the future you refer to to it don't misrepresent it just to smear me as is your habit.

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24 minutes ago, Dog said:
1 hour ago, Bus Driver said:

Thank you.  Saving this for posterity.

I don't delete my posts.

Do me a favor, when in the future you refer to to it don't misrepresent it just to smear me as is your habit.

Don't worry.  I figure it may come in handy if there is a discussion as to who you voted for.  

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2 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

I don't see either party doing much more than maneuvering to solidify their partisan advantage. 

One party will not cut infectious disease programs.  There's one difference.

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3 hours ago, hasher said:

Politics involves humans and we all have worts.

I got a text from a Bernie activist.  I asked her to support Biden in the general election.  She responded that she would.

If Bernie wins, it is a no brainer that he gets my vote in the general election.

Nothing is taken for granted.  From the military to the environment to the health care system, all will change for the better with the Democratic Party in control.

Covid will help The push for uni healthcare bigley...  

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3 minutes ago, shaggy said:

Covid will help The push for uni healthcare bigley...  

When it happens in your little circle it helps your understanding of suffering.  People are dying.  It's not political.

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14 minutes ago, hasher said:

When it happens in your little circle it helps your understanding of suffering.  People are dying.  It's not political.

People who are in/under insured and get sick are avoiding the healthcare system and spreading the virus.

not a good thing. And yes, it’s political.

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2 hours ago, hasher said:

The Democratic Party stands for workers, the environment and human rights.

Not anymore.  That's why so many blue collar workers left to join Trump after Hillary got the nomination.  They knew the Clintons liked rubbing elbows with the rich, just like the DNC.  And it's paid off handsomely for them both.

Don't know how many Bernie supporters today were former Trump supporters or how many he could bring back if he won the nomination.  That would be interesting to know. 

What I do know is if we want to return to the days of a strong middle class, we have to begin by shooting for the sky.  Anyone who has worked in negotiations knows you always ask for more then you think you'll get and then settle for less.  That's how you win.  This moderate approach by the Dems has gotten us nowhere. 

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12 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

Lack of sick leave for low wage workers, lack of social safety net requiring sick people to go to work instead of staying home and not spreading disease also political.

republicans have looked at the public goods aspect of healthcare, social policy, and said “fuck you, that doesn’t exist” and, well, they are wrong.

Penned by a student of mine. Kid nails it. 

“Last week I listened to an NPR news story about commercial aircraft cleaners' health concerns in the wake of the coronavirus outbreak, and it presented the perfect coalescense of every economic issue low-wage workers in this country face. These people don't make a living wage, receive no healthcare benefits, and have no sick days -- in addition to obtaining no adequate training in handling this type of biohazard. Yet they are expected to be a frontline attack for the rest of us against a very real threat.

This is why I get so angry when people try to depreciate the importance of low-wage labor -- thus the responsibility to compensate it fairly -- by calling it "unskilled." Custodians, retail associates, food service workers, and the like provide essential services more integral to our economy and quality of life than any ability to make spreadsheets and schedule meetings. And even if that were not the case, they still deserve financial protections for the work they do. 

People should not have to hazard their health because they're afraid to lose their jobs.”

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16 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

People who are in/under insured and get sick are avoiding the healthcare system and spreading the virus.

not a good thing. And yes, it’s political.

From what I understand, I'm fairly safe as a homeless shelter volunteer.  The guests mostly lack all medical care except the over the counter things dished out here.

If you are flying internationally, or visiting with the hoity toity, you should stay away from me.  I hate being sick.  That's not political.

Did you see little don shaking with his butt buddy?  

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6 minutes ago, Jules said:

Not anymore.  That's why so many blue collar workers left to join Trump after Hillary got the nomination.  They knew the Clintons liked rubbing elbows with the rich, just like the DNC.  And it's paid off handsomely for them both.

Don't know how many Bernie supporters today were former Trump supporters or how many he could bring back if he won the nomination.  That would be interesting to know. 

What I do know is if we want to return to the days of a strong middle class, we have to begin by shooting for the sky.  Anyone who has worked in negotiations knows you always ask for more then you think you'll get and then settle for less.  That's how you win.  This moderate approach by the Dems has gotten us nowhere. 

I know a little about negotiation.

Bluffing can only go so far.

The lack of support on the left sucks to high heaven.

Did you think anyone would give you an extra penney?

The labor movement is the strength of  the working man and the middle class.

 

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21 minutes ago, hasher said:

From what I understand, I'm fairly safe as a homeless shelter volunteer.  The guests mostly lack all medical care except the over the counter things dished out here.

If you are flying internationally, or visiting with the hoity toity, you should stay away from me.  I hate being sick.  That's not political.

Did you see little don shaking with his butt buddy?  

From what I can tell, your strawman aside, being a healthcare worker in a nursing home, or staff on a cruise ship are the folks at risk in the states. For now.

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56 minutes ago, Jules said:

Not anymore.  That's why so many blue collar workers left to join Trump after Hillary got the nomination.  They knew the Clintons liked rubbing elbows with the rich, just like the DNC.  And it's paid off handsomely for them both.

Don't know how many Bernie supporters today were former Trump supporters or how many he could bring back if he won the nomination.  That would be interesting to know. 

What I do know is if we want to return to the days of a strong middle class, we have to begin by shooting for the sky.  Anyone who has worked in negotiations knows you always ask for more then you think you'll get and then settle for less.  That's how you win.  This moderate approach by the Dems has gotten us nowhere. 

Yeah, that's a bunch of nonsense.

The Clinton's are two distinct people. Here's a nice review of Bill's legacy. His first bill was the Family Medical Leave Act which his predecessor had vetoed. Twice.

https://law.hofstra.edu/pdf/academics/journals/laborandemploymentlawjournal/labor_vol24no1_moberly.pdf

As for Hillary, she's been a Senator and Secretary of State. You can check out her record.

https://www.ontheissues.org/Hillary_Clinton.htm

BTW, I voted for Bernie in the 2016 primary as I'm a progressive. But Hillary works hard and the country would be in a much better place if she'd been elected over the piece of shit we have.

Carter walked the walk but Saint Reagan talked the talked. Reagan even fired the air traffic controllers and blue collar voters loved him for it. So maybe there's a little more there.

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27 minutes ago, Jules said:

Not anymore.  That's why so many blue collar workers left to join Trump after Hillary got the nomination.  They knew the Clintons liked rubbing elbows with the rich, just like the DNC.  And it's paid off handsomely for them both.

Don't know how many Bernie supporters today were former Trump supporters or how many he could bring back if he won the nomination.  That would be interesting to know. 

What I do know is if we want to return to the days of a strong middle class, we have to begin by shooting for the sky.  Anyone who has worked in negotiations knows you always ask for more then you think you'll get and then settle for less.  That's how you win.  This moderate approach by the Dems has gotten us nowhere. 

Personally, I think there is very very little crossover between Obama and/or Bernie voters and Trump voters. IMHO it's largely a figment of right-wing commentators imaginations, because they want to rub some of the lefty glamor on themselves.

The blue-collar Trump fan hates blacks, gays, and Mexicans, and is worried about brown-skin people being a threat to his job. Trump brought a lot of non-veters out of the woodwork.

The Democratic Party is not really a good reliable support of workers rights, but the Trumpublican Party (and the Republicans before them) is actively hostile to anything good for wage/salary workers.

- DSK

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1 hour ago, MR.CLEAN said:

One party will not cut infectious disease programs.  There's one difference.

Like I said - I'll wait and see.   You haven't ever heard me bashing on the left for being left - and if they gain a majority and do good stuff?  I'll be happy to have a reason to congratulate them for it.   If their biggest claim to fame is that "we don't suck the same way the Rs did"?  Yeah - then not so much. 

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6 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Like I said - I'll wait and see.   You haven't ever heard me bashing on the left for being left - and if they gain a majority and do good stuff?  I'll be happy to have a reason to congratulate them for it.   If their biggest claim to fame is that "we don't suck the same way the Rs did"?  Yeah - then not so much. 

Proactive.

Learn it.

Do it.

Live it.

I'm not your doorman.

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3 minutes ago, hasher said:

Proactive.

Learn it.

Do it.

Live it.

I'm not your doorman.

Doorman?  Nobody asked you to do a damn thing.  I certainly didn't.  I'm saying that I don't believe that anything is going to improve simply because a different party gains the majority.

If some improvement does happen?  I'll be happy for that, and to give credit where its due.  I don't expect it, and I'm not going to accept a bunch of partisan cheerleaders' word for it either. 

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11 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Doorman?  Nobody asked you to do a damn thing.  I certainly didn't.  I'm saying that I don't believe that anything is going to improve simply because a different party gains the majority.

If some improvement does happen?  I'll be happy for that, and to give credit where its due.  I don't expect it, and I'm not going to accept a bunch of partisan cheerleaders' word for it either. 

Of course both parties are the same.  We will cut taxes on the richest, or not.  Makes no difference.

We can ease environmental regulations, or not.  Your choice.

We can wage war.  You choose.

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8 minutes ago, hasher said:

Of course both parties are the same.  We will cut taxes on the richest, or not.  Makes no difference.

We can ease environmental regulations, or not.  Your choice.

We can wage war.  You choose.

No, no, no. You misunderstand our contributor,  @A guy in the Chesapeake

In his view, both parties are the same. Neither is superior, they even have the same policies so nothing will ever change if you elect one over the other.

Of course, AGITC would never vote Dem, because of their policies. He's consistently inconsistent like that.

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3 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

No, no, no. You misunderstand our contributor,  @A guy in the Chesapeake

In his view, both parties are the same. Neither is superior, they even have the same policies so nothing will ever change if you elect one over the other.

 Of course, AGITC would never vote Dem, because of their policies. He's consistently inconsistent like that.

Why thanks Flash - you've just saved me a ton of time - no need for me to say what I think when y'all will do that for me.  'Preciate it! 

BTW - in terms of prioritizing party dominance?  yeah - they ARE the same, even if they sometimes employ different tactics in their attempts to achieve that dominance. SO - you can continue to harp all ya want, it won't change that I'm correct in my opinion, and that opinion doesn't, contrary to your assertions, suggest that the observations of those behaviors on the right are justified.  

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1 hour ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Why thanks Flash - you've just saved me a ton of time - no need for me to say what I think when y'all will do that for me.  'Preciate it! 

BTW - in terms of prioritizing party dominance?  yeah - they ARE the same, even if they sometimes employ different tactics in their attempts to achieve that dominance. SO - you can continue to harp all ya want, it won't change that I'm correct in my opinion, and that opinion doesn't, contrary to your assertions, suggest that the observations of those behaviors on the right are justified.  

I've stated before, the Parties are a business, their product are Candidates and Platforms, and the consumers are the voters.

It wasn't so long ago that the product was Platforms, THEN Candidates, but Video/TV/Social has changed all that. Witness Trump. For the modern Republicans, the product is Candidate and Platform.

Modern Dems are forced to be Platform first, as they don't have charismatic candidates at the moment.

I'm happy to say I much prefer the dem platform over the ever-evolving-in-Trump's-mind populist R platform, but that's not saying a whole lot. I find it perplexing that Conservatives would look at the Trump platform and find ANYTHING conservative in it. Reactionary, sure.

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31 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

I've stated before, the Parties are a business, their product are Candidates and Platforms, and the consumers are the voters.

It wasn't so long ago that the product was Platforms, THEN Candidates, but Video/TV/Social has changed all that. Witness Trump. For the modern Republicans, the product is Candidate and Platform.

Modern Dems are forced to be Platform first, as they don't have charismatic candidates at the moment.

I'm happy to say I much prefer the dem platform over the ever-evolving-in-Trump's-mind populist R platform, but that's not saying a whole lot. I find it perplexing that Conservatives would look at the Trump platform and find ANYTHING conservative in it. Reactionary, sure.

Lower taxes, less regulation, secure borders, fair trade deals....

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3 minutes ago, Dog said:
36 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

...  I find it perplexing that Conservatives would look at the Trump platform and find ANYTHING conservative in it. Reactionary, sure.

Lower taxes, less regulation, secure borders, fair trade deals....

 

Other than more pollution, and less rights, what of that platform are you actually getting?

- DSK

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11 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

 

Other than more pollution, and less rights, what of that platform are you actually getting?

- DSK

Lower taxes, less regulation, secure borders, fair trade deals....

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Just now, Dog said:
11 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

what of that platform are you actually getting?

 

Lower taxes, less regulation, secure borders, fair trade deals....

Yeah? Must be very pleasant dreams

But don't you also enjoy the greater security form a nuclear-armed Korea, the impressive vigilance of men of science of your family's security, the beautiful Trump health care plan, and the great respect of other nations?

- DSK

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4 hours ago, hasher said:

I know a little about negotiation.

Bluffing can only go so far.

The lack of support on the left sucks to high heaven.

Did you think anyone would give you an extra penney?

The labor movement is the strength of  the working man and the middle class.

When I left the field to go into project management, I already knew general contractors will beat you up on every change order you submit.  So when I became the one to work up the prices, I pressed hard on that pen.  I knew where we had to be to make an acceptable profit so I bumped up everything I could justify. 

Then I'd be called in to review the change orders.  When they started beating up on me on the prices, I defended myself acceptably enough to get them to back off.  Then there would be the inevitable, "But we can't submit this to the owner."  So I'd drop the prices.

Everyone walked away happy.

I keep hearing we need moderate Democrats to negotiate with the Republicans or nothing will get done.  Yet Democrats repeatedly criticize their party reps for getting nothing done.  You have to go high and be ready to defend it.  Then negotiate from there.

The Republicans have been completely unwilling to bend.  We will never get anywhere if we let them continue to get away with that.

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2 hours ago, Dog said:

, less regulation, 

Like all those pesky workplace safety rules ? 

The ones that saved all those lives ? 

As an extremist partisan, I don't think you have the foggiest notion of what-all the Drumph has actually done. 

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/09/03/trumps-worker-safety-regulations-protections-unions-806008

 

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3 hours ago, Dog said:

Lower taxes, less regulation, secure borders, fair trade deals....

Mongrel,

Life is about more than your navel.

I hate taxes, but I voted for more, like  my neighbors.  We voted for transit and clean rivers.  GD us.

I don't want underwear or anything else that is not made with a decent wage and in an environment that sustains life.

I must be a fucking radical.

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27 minutes ago, cmilliken said:

 

Krystal usually nails it and did again here.  The fact of the matter is mainstream Dems will just keep doing what they have always done, just enough to get by.

If we look back on the 111th Congress, when Obama was in the White House and both the House and Senate were Democrat controlled, what did they accomplish?  Gun legislation?  Nope.  How about an Affordable Health Care Act that didn't have to cave to Republican demands?  No way.  Campaign Finance Reform?  No fucking way!

They waited until the Republicans had the House and Senate before they started talking tough again. 

Nothing will change until you change the people who never change.

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47 minutes ago, hasher said:
4 hours ago, Dog said:

Lower taxes, less regulation, secure borders, fair trade deals....

Mongrel,

Life is about more than your navel.

I hate taxes, but I voted for more, like  my neighbors.  We voted for transit and clean rivers.  GD us.

I don't want underwear or anything else that is not made with a decent wage and in an environment that sustains life.

I must be a fucking radical.

He's happy with the lie that he's getting "lower taxes, less regulation, secure borders, fair trade deals...."

- DSK

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Good old @Dog - what a moran.

Lower taxes: record deficits

Less regulation: nice re-emergence of workplace deaths and pollution, Winning!

Secure Borders: What a joke. Obama kicked ass

Fair trade deals: How many billions to the farmers? I thought Fair Trade was No Subsidy?

 

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Grandpa Joe and Grandpa Bernie came to the Thanksgiving table tonight.  We were all nervous.

Mom and dad were ready to step in but our grandpas were acceptably tame.  I think they left the table and shared a beer in the back yard before taking a nap on the couch.

Maybe I'm naive but it looks like no matter who gets the nomination, our grandpas will unite to protect the family from Uncle Buster.

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