roll and tip mast with Perfection ??

[NOCALSAILOR 4]

I have a white mast and the paint has gone dull, but still sound. I would guess that it has 2 part paint on it now. Not sure what Forspar used in the past.  I am planning to roll and tip it white again, mostly for UV protection and try to get looking good from 10'.  Do I need to prime before using Perfection? Any other suggestions.  Thanks

[kevinjones16 33]

Two years ago I painted my mast with white Brightside. It was previously painted with unknown white paint. I removed the hardware I could, masked the rest, sanded lightly with 80 grit, primed the bare spots with zinc chromate, filled some imperfections with Interlux Watertite, sanded to 180, and rolled and tipped the new paint. I thinned it about 10%, and put on four coats. After a week or so I buffed and polished it. 
 

It looked amazing when we restepped it, and two years down the road it still looks great. I'm going to touch up a few spots this Spring where the lazy jacks rubbed. 
 

I chose Brightside because I'd used it before and was familiar with it. Curious to hear what other folks have done. 

[Fleetwood 176]

If you have any reasonable painting skills use a 2-pack paint such as Perfection. Much tougher and long-lasting than Brightside.

First step is to confirm the present paint is 2-pack: soak a paper towel in a 2-pack solvent such as International #9, tape it to the paint covered with some plastic wrap and leave overnight. If the paint underneath is still sound it is compatible.

Remove all hardware, wash thoroughly and sand back to ~300grit. If the paint is still good apply 2 coats of Perfection or similar. I use and recommend the PTWatercraft approach:

http://www.ptwatercraft.com/ptwatercraft/Rolling_Perfection_by_Russell_Brown.html

If it's not sound, sand further to fair all edges, apply a coat of epoxy paint, such as Interprotect, sand to ~300, then paint. Re-fit hardware with suitable anti-corrosion bedding.

Done.

[casc27 126]

9 hours ago, Fleetwood said:

If you have any reasonable painting skills use a 2-pack paint such as Perfection. Much tougher and long-lasting than Brightside.

^^ This. And if you have no experience/skills and want to use a 2-pack paint, buy some, get some scrap similar to your project and practice a bit. The $100 or so for the practice supplies will be a good investment when your paint job does not need redone in 3 years. If after the practice session you still have no skills, um, maybe painting is not for you. Russel Brown (I think it was Russel) has a nice book on non-spray application of 2-pack paints. Buy this and read it first. 

[PatsyQPatsy 30]

If your paint is truly sound, then just buff and wax it like you would with a metalic mint green 1970 Chevelle.  

If it is not really sound then strip it and spray awlgrip.  That will be on there for another 25 years.

[NOCALSAILOR 4]

14 hours ago, Fleetwood said:

First step is to confirm the present paint is 2-pack: soak a paper towel in a 2-pack solvent such as International #9, tape it to the paint covered with some plastic wrap and leave overnight. If the paint underneath is still sound it is compatible.

 

Thanks for the tip! I think I have read that years ago and lost it in the grey matter somewhere.

[Toecutter's Ghost 114]

Whatever you do, don't use a single pack paint. You'll probably end up regretting it.

I repainted my mast with 2K LPU paint a few years back. It was prepared to the point of all hardware and damaged areas of paint removed. Rather than roll and tip, I just rolled the paint on with a fairly course roller, leaving a correspondingly course orange peel finish. The mast had been repainted before with a mix of 2 pack and single pack touch ups and one "mistake" I made during preparation was to spot sand back to bare metal areas of damaged paint/corrosion. After the initial painting, when the paint was still super glossy these areas showed up as reasonably distinct "divots". Not too worry, as soon as the mast is thrown up it was pretty much unnoticeable. Now after a few years and the gloss has toned down a bit, the mast looks just as good from three paces as If It'd been rolled and tipped or sprayed and no signs of bubbling coming up from the paint. I guess what I'm saying in a long winded way is that the appearance doesn't really matter too much in the long run, just the preparation and paint selection.

Now the boom, on the other hand, is a different kettle of fish because you stare up at it a lot and WILL notice any little imperfections in the coating. I stripped my boom of fittings, sanded every last piece of paint off it and even filled all the little corrosion marks and dings with epoxy filler. I sprayed it with 2k LPU and it came out looking fantastic, and still does to this day.

[casc27 126]

14 hours ago, Toecutter's Ghost said:

Whatever you do, don't use a single pack paint. You'll probably end up regretting it.

Heed this advice (now that I fixerated it for you).

[Zonker 2,856]

On 2/6/2020 at 10:17 AM, PatsyQPatsy said:

spray awlgrip...

Just a safety caution. Spraying any 2 part polyurethane paint really is supposed to be done with a supplied air respirator. I have a friend with fucked up lungs because he did his hull in a shed with just a VOC cartridge type mask. 

Outside in open airs I've seen lots of people spray 2 part wearing just this type of mask and insisting they're upwind and it's OK. It's not. READ the MSDS sheets for any 2 part you are planning to spray.

Brushing or roll and tip is OK with a VOC cartridge type mask because the paint isn't being aerosolized (sp) and getting tiny particles into your lungs. You're just protecting yourself from the airborne evaporating solvents with mask.

[Leeroy Jenkins 219]

1 hour ago, Zonker said:

Spraying any 2 part polyurethane paint really is supposed to be done with a supplied air respirator.

Pretty sure part of the reason Perfection isn't sold in Canada anymore is because people weren't doing this. 

[blurocketsmate 86]

If you're going to do all that prep, it's worth using the good stuff.  Go for it.

But I'll second what Zonker said about safety.  This stuff is no joke.

[Zonker 2,856]

Possibly International wasn't selling enough to jump through the regulatory hoops for recertification. Same reason Canada gets lots less choice in antifouling: costs a lot to certify each one.

How would International know people were or were not taking proper safety precautions??  Or is this a gov thing, banning 2 part paints?

I bought 2 part clear coat in a catalyst equipped rattle can just recently at an auto body store. Amazing results for DIY auto body work. Please don't tell the safety police!

I wonder if you can get Imron in Canadian auto body stores. The Mexican formulation worked great painting my last boat.

 

[Fleetwood 176]

7 hours ago, Zonker said:

Just a safety caution. Spraying any 2 part polyurethane paint really is supposed to be done with a supplied air respirator. I have a friend with fucked up lungs because he did his hull in a shed with just a VOC cartridge type mask. 

Outside in open airs I've seen lots of people spray 2 part wearing just this type of mask and insisting they're upwind and it's OK. It's not. READ the MSDS sheets for any 2 part you are planning to spray.

Brushing or roll and tip is OK with a VOC cartridge type mask because the paint isn't being aerosolized (sp) and getting tiny particles into your lungs. You're just protecting yourself from the airborne evaporating solvents with mask.

Rolling (only) with a good foam roller, using lots of retarder and sanding thoroughly between coats can give a finish almost as good as spraying, certainly good enough for spars, and as you say only needing a proper cartridge mask.

[PatsyQPatsy 30]

13 hours ago, Zonker said:

Just a safety caution. Spraying any 2 part polyurethane paint really is supposed to be done with a supplied air respirator. I have a friend with fucked up lungs because he did his hull in a shed with just a VOC cartridge type mask. 

Outside in open airs I've seen lots of people spray 2 part wearing just this type of mask and insisting they're upwind and it's OK. It's not. READ the MSDS sheets for any 2 part you are planning to spray.

Brushing or roll and tip is OK with a VOC cartridge type mask because the paint isn't being aerosolized (sp) and getting tiny particles into your lungs. You're just protecting yourself from the airborne evaporating solvents with mask.

This is the advice of an industrial hygienist that I subscribe to:

In all honesty guys, 2 part paints should only be sprayed in downdraft booths by painters in full chemical-resistant clothing and supplied-air respirators. There's a reason why this equipment is standard-issue in professional body shops. Spray booths are partly used because obviously they improve the finish quality, but they also are there to protect the workers. A shop not using one is putting a bulls-eye on their head for an EXPENSIVE OSHA visit.  

My suggestion is to do the prep work yourself, which we all know is 80% of a good piant job anyway, and then get a body shop to shoot it for you. You CAN adequately protect yourself from solvent vapours (i.e styrene from polyester resins/fillers, acetone from cleaning tools), and sanding dusts with a properly-fitting half-mask respirator, assuming your work in well-ventilated conditions (i.e keep the garage doors open, use a fan to create a cross-breeze, etc.). For solvent vapours, you need an "organic-vapour cartridge", which will be black. For dusts, get a P-100 cartridge, also known as HEPA cartrige, which will be a purepleish colour. You can also get cartridges that combine these, so you don't need to switch back and forth.
 

Here is the 80 percent  

 

[SloopJonB 8,591]

The dangerous component of two part paints is isocyanate.

What does this word remind you of? cyanate

 

That's right.

[23feet 22]

What is a safe distance from someone painting 2-pack? I was in the boatyard a year ago and the yard workers were spraying a boat right next to me. The painter said I was OK because the paint particles are hard by the time they fall on me and my boat!?

[IStream 2,418]

2 minutes ago, 23feet said:

What is a safe distance from someone painting 2-pack? I was in the boatyard a year ago and the yard workers were spraying a boat right next to me. The painter said I was OK because the paint particles are hard by the time they fall on me and my boat!?

Depends heavily on temperature, humidity, the specific nozzle on the spray gun, etc. Regardless, it's easy to verify. If the paint dust that fell on your boat didn't adhere, he was probably right.

[23feet 22]

I had to wash it off the closest lewmar deck hatch with soap and water. Didn't seem to stick on anything else I could see.

[penumbra 13]

On 2/8/2020 at 1:43 AM, Fleetwood said:

Rolling (only) with a good foam roller, using lots of retarder and sanding thoroughly between coats can give a finish almost as good as spraying, certainly good enough for spars, and as you say only needing a proper cartridge mask.

This. I did exactly that on my last boat. I removed very little, mostly just masked. Even did it outdoors when the temp was a little cool for Perfection. It came out great.

I had a friend who I've done a lot of projects with - car restos, houses, etc - come in to help out. I got him started at the top, I started from the bottom. No one will ever see the few runs he left behind. 

 

[slug zitski 297]

On 2/6/2020 at 3:10 AM, NOCALSAILOR said:

I have a white mast and the paint has gone dull, but still sound. I would guess that it has 2 part paint on it now. Not sure what Forspar used in the past.  I am planning to roll and tip it white again, mostly for UV protection and try to get looking good from 10'.  Do I need to prime before using Perfection? Any other suggestions.  Thanks

Use awlgrip ...the awlgrip brushing reducer , catylast ...produces a better ..flow out ....superior finish 

 

international tends to produce a brushy finish 

 

paint flow out is temp dependent ...substrate temp, paint temp and background temp 

choose a good morning to spread. Avoid bright sun 

[Fleetwood 176]

Choose a product and learn to use it, how it behaves with different application methods, amounts of reducer, etc in different environments. Most paint and varnish systems seem to be pretty good these days but they all need practice to get the best from them. I tend to use Perfection because its easy to get and I'm used to it.

[Zonker 2,856]

On 2/9/2020 at 3:28 PM, penumbra said:

I got him started at the top, I started from the bottom. No one will ever see the few runs he left behind. 

My grandfather was an industrial painter. He worked for a while at a textile mill in Montreal. He had to paint the multi-hundred foot smoke stack.

"The first 20' you do a great job. The next 20' you do an OK job. The rest you just slap it on as fast as you can...."

[SloopJonB 8,591]

So you're saying start at the bottom?

[IStream 2,418]

And do it with the mast raised.

[Russell Brown 803]

The advantage with Perfection is that it can be applied with a roller without brushing and can look as good as any two-part paint job. That doesn't mean it's a perfect system. Sometimes the bubbles don't pop and other things can happen, but most often it's very fast application on open surfaces without spraying and it can actually look better than sprayed paint.

[Anomaly2 75]

On 2/11/2020 at 10:12 PM, Russell Brown said:

The advantage with Perfection is that it can be applied with a roller without brushing and can look as good as any two-part paint job. That doesn't mean it's a perfect system. Sometimes the bubbles don't pop and other things can happen, but most often it's very fast application on open surfaces without spraying and it can actually look better than sprayed paint.

Inspired after reading Russell's book on roll-without-tipping Perfection, I tried it with Petit Easypoxy (just cause I had some on hand). Using 10% thinner and Petit's Performance Enhancer (which really ups the gloss), it works great just rolling. YMMV

[2airishuman 112]

On 2/8/2020 at 11:47 AM, SloopJonB said:

The dangerous component of two part paints is isocyanate.

What does this word remind you of? cyanate

 

That's right.

The dangerous component of Interlux Perfection is hexamethylene diisocyanate, which is in the isocyanate family.  See the MSDS - https://international-yachtpaint.com/s3/documents/msds/YGB001__US_EN_20190723_1.pdf

Unlike cyanides, which contain a functional group with a carbon atom triple-bonded to a nitrogen atom, isocyanates have a -N=C=O structure.  They are chemically distinct.

Cyanides are acutely toxic.

Isocyanates, on the other hand, are allergic sensitizers.  There is a cumulative effect of exposure over a person's lifetime.

I have an SCBA that I have used for indoor application.  Awkward and cumbersome, usually I use a respirator instead for roll-and-tip. 

[2airishuman 112]

On 2/8/2020 at 12:04 PM, 23feet said:

What is a safe distance from someone painting 2-pack? I was in the boatyard a year ago and the yard workers were spraying a boat right next to me. The painter said I was OK because the paint particles are hard by the time they fall on me and my boat!?

If you can smell it you're too close.

[2airishuman 112]

On 2/11/2020 at 2:25 AM, slug zitski said:

Use awlgrip ...the awlgrip brushing reducer , catylast ...produces a better ..flow out ....superior finish 

 

international tends to produce a brushy finish

The products are very similar.  Both have brushing reducers available, and with suitable dilution perform the same way.

[Zonker 2,856]

I hate that smell. It's so distinctive once you've smelled it once.

Like gear oil with lots of sulphur in it. You never forget that odor either.

[sail69 117]

On 2/11/2020 at 10:12 PM, Russell Brown said:

The advantage with Perfection is that it can be applied with a roller without brushing and can look as good as any two-part paint job. That doesn't mean it's a perfect system. Sometimes the bubbles don't pop and other things can happen, but most often it's very fast application on open surfaces without spraying and it can actually look better than sprayed paint.

Rolled Perfection on just my transom.  Flag Blue on Flag Blue.  Just rolled paint on (small foam roller) and gently rolled (tippd ?) a clean roller over remaining bubbles.   Looks great.   

[jamhass 93]

On 2/11/2020 at 2:37 PM, SloopJonB said:

So you're saying start at the bottom?

No, start at the top.  That way you: 1.  Learn as you go, getting better as you get to the bottom, 2.  Don't have to climb on wet paint, 3.  Get to paint in one go without waiting to dry.

[Fleetwood 176]

12 hours ago, 2airishuman said:

If you can smell it you're too close.

The retarder is what you smell most. Its a good canary.....

[Fleetwood 176]

5 hours ago, jamhass said:

No, start at the top.  That way you: 1.  Learn as you go, getting better as you get to the bottom, 2.  Don't have to climb on wet paint, 3.  Get to paint in one go without waiting to dry.

Inside to outside, top to bottom. Working out the order to paint is often the trickiest problem!

[Mizzmo 46]

I lurked on this thread while re-painting my mast. I rolled perfection using Russell's book as a guide and I am really happy with the result. Not a pro-result but better than I thought. The biggest mistake I made was not sanding between the 2nd and 3rd coat. I couldn't tell where I had been because Perfection is so glossy, I ended up a little dry in some places and got a few runs in others.

Thanks SA

[Fleetwood 176]

Important lesson to learn, I also learned it the hard way!

Another important one is to use a sanding guide coat:

https://www.international-yachtpaint.com/en/au/boat-paint-products/care-cleaning-and-maintenance/sanding-guide-coat

https://www.3m.com.au/3M/en_AU/company-au/all-3m-products/~/3M-Dry-Guide-Coat/?N=5002385+8710698+3293223475&rt=rud

I used one on my final undercoat but should have done it again before the last topcoat.

I now use it routinely before final coats. Also excellent for fairing.

[Mizzmo 46]

Cool product, ill keep that in mind