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Battle for Hong Kong


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I haven't been active in this thread, but calling it a "Battle for Hong Kong" is really a joke.  It's gone.  There is no longer a "Hong Kong" as we know it.  The Chinese will remove every last person in Hong Kong and imprison them if they have to.

If you're in Hong Kong, get yourself and your business the fuck out now.

The ONLY thing that could prevent this from happening is if a foreign power attempted to move in with their military.  Even then they'd lose to the Chinese.

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no one said not be suspicious. I think it's more "nothing we can do about it"

FYI - advanced chip manufacturing is a HUGE deal. If you are the only place that can do it,  any conflict would be like having WWII with all aircraft engines coming from one place and you are that pla

So you're saying that China only became interested in HK, Taiwan and the other small islands like the Spratlys in the last 3 years because of trump??  

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28 minutes ago, Grrr... said:

I haven't been active in this thread, but calling it a "Battle for Hong Kong" is really a joke. 

That was the title of the PBS show.

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6 hours ago, Zonker said:

The price of real estate in Vancouver is going to shoot up again. 300K HK have Canadian passports. Not all of them bought houses here during the '97 lead up to the handover, so some will be house shopping. Sigh. 

Canadian passport holders shouldn't buy Canadian property?

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3 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

I have a feeling this post is gonna age about as well as Mikey's flu posts

That's really sad for you.

An American who was born into many kinds of wealth; the wealth of family, of being born into middle class, of being born in a country where you have never had to fight for any significant amount of freedom ... you're this fantastically wealthy American Caucasian man, and now you're essentially gloating about 7 million people being taken over by a Communist Dictatorship.

 

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3 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Just did a relocation risk assessment for a large HK-based multinational who is about to pull the trigger on a move to Singapore and Myanmar.  Stripping the HK office as much as they can get away with.

Isn't it interesting how these multinationals, aided by people like you, are able to abandon the populations that made them wealthy, and then leave them twisting in the wind.

You might be an American, but you're not the kind of American whom I'm proud to call my brother.

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3 hours ago, Grrr... said:

I haven't been active in this thread, but calling it a "Battle for Hong Kong" is really a joke.  It's gone.  There is no longer a "Hong Kong" as we know it.  The Chinese will remove every last person in Hong Kong and imprison them if they have to.

If you're in Hong Kong, get yourself and your business the fuck out now.

The ONLY thing that could prevent this from happening is if a foreign power attempted to move in with their military.  Even then they'd lose to the Chinese.

And if they don't want to leave their home?

Would you abandon your home so willingly as you think they should abandon their homes?

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1 minute ago, mikewof said:

Isn't it interesting how these multinationals, aided by people like you, are able to abandon the populations that made them wealthy, and then leave them twisting in the wind.

You might be an American, but you're not the kind of American whom I'm proud to call my brother.

I know, I peaked again.

You really are a fucktard.

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8 hours ago, Cacoethesic Tom said:

The Brits aren't much interested in HK independence and the Chinese seem to really dislike the idea.

Why would Britain even give a shit? They never have given a rat's ass about their former colonies, there is no reason for them to start now.

The USA isn't much better, as evidenced by our inability to bring Puerto Rico, Guam, American Samoa, Saipan, USVI, Tinnian, Washington D.C. and The Marshalls into our country as full voting citizens. But at least we didn't completely throw The Philippines to the dogs, the way Britain would have.

 

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5 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

I know, I peaked again.

You really are a fucktard.

You really don't know how the "ignore" thing works, do you?

In this case, you're apparently so illiterate that you didn't notice that I wrote that to Clean, not you.

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33 minutes ago, cliffclavin said:

Isn't it interesting how these multinationals, aided by people like you, are able to abandon the populations that made them wealthy, and then leave them twisting in the wind.

 

Just living out the american dream 'bro'

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2 hours ago, mikewof said:

And if they don't want to leave their home?

Would you abandon your home so willingly as you think they should abandon their homes?

Yes.  If my choice was my life and livelihood.  They are not going to stop the machine that is China

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8 hours ago, Cacoethesic Tom said:

Canadian passport holders shouldn't buy Canadian property?

What I said was house prices will increase, and why. No need to imply I said anything more. Vancouver is very expensive to live in and average folks cannot afford a house. Sad to see the situation made worse by an influx of more buyers fleeing China but hey they need a place to live too if they have not already bought here. 

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19 minutes ago, Zonker said:

What I said was house prices will increase, and why. No need to imply I said anything more. Vancouver is very expensive to live in and average folks cannot afford a house. Sad to see the situation made worse by an influx of more buyers fleeing China but hey they need a place to live too if they have not already bought here. 

When the deal between the UK and China was done to return HK to Chinese hands, all sorts of wealthy HK people get immigration status and later citizenship in Canada. They bought homes and either 'commuted' to HK for business or lived there as Canadian citizens. They wanted to be prepared if things fell apart and it appears their preparations paid off. Most of the folks set up in Vancouver and Toronto. I am sure similar situations exist in the US and Australia, perhaps elsewhere. I taught in a high school in an upper middle class district off Toronto and we had hundreds of kids from HK. I talked to one father on parents' night and he said he had to maintain his businesses (plural) in HK because you could make the same sort of money in Canada but he wanted a safe refuge if needed.

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15 hours ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

The companies won't leave, access to the Chinese economy is just too important for that. They have no shortage of bright, educated people to run things. Shenzhen is only a km away, larger than HK and has a booming stock market and financial sector. The two cities could become a joint financial hub - to some extent this is already the case.

They'll leave, just leaving a small office for sales and Enquires, No big fancy offices with hundreds of staff.

The company I work for has just done that from mainland china, Not to the USA as the orange one would hope, but to  non communist country where the rule of law and not dictatorship properly exists.

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1 hour ago, Gissie said:

This must be wrong, Mikey assured us all that Hong Kongers are going to win...

Hongkongers are going to win. And you're going to start supporting them.

I send letters to my congressional representatives demonstrating my support for the people of Hong Kong, and that I support my elected officers and public servants who support the people of Hong Kong.

How long would it take you do that? 30 minutes? Are you that busy that you don't have 30 minutes to suppport all those normal Hongkongers who can't afford a chalet in Banff?

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Ask Mikey about his involvement in the Truth 9/11 movement.

It's hoot.

He has a track record in various disinformation campaigns going back decades.  This is but one of the forums he shills on.

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2 hours ago, mikewof said:

Hongkongers are going to win.

What do you think they will win? Freedom from China, freedom to vote, freedom from extradition?

You can write to your congressman every day and it will make no difference to the outcome. Thinking otherwise is pathetic.

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45 minutes ago, astro said:

Ask Mikey about his involvement in the Truth 9/11 movement.

It's hoot.

He has a track record in various disinformation campaigns going back decades.  This is but one of the forums he shills on.

I thought you were the Truth 9/11 shill.

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34 minutes ago, Gissie said:

I thought you were the Truth 9/11 shill.

Hahahaaaaa

Ask Mikey!

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43 minutes ago, Gissie said:

What do you think they will win? Freedom from China, freedom to vote, freedom from extradition?

You can write to your congressman every day and it will make no difference to the outcome. Thinking otherwise is pathetic.

What will they win? Howabout the freedom to not have a boot smash their face in? That sounds like a good start, right?

And to what you wrote in bold, I don't know what it's like in New Zealand, I've never been there. But in the USA, our elected officers have constituents, of which I am one. And when enough constituents tell their employees what to do, what to say, how to think, all kinds of magic happens.

You call that "pathetic"? It seems Clean agrees with you. But I call it "a shit-ton better than a few million people sitting on ass waiting for a few million Hongkongers to have their futures erased."

If enough people make it clear that they stand with Hong Kong and that they're willing to vote with their wallets, then they have a chance. But Hongkongers aren't sitting on ass, they're fighting. And they're fighting with the threat of having their lives ruined by China. You and I don't have that threat. We can stand by Hongkongers with little fear of anything bad happening to us as a result. So do it, you owe it to them. It's not "pathetic", it's called "being a human being."

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Believing in magic is useful for some people.

Anyone heard of an American politician getting China to reverse course on something like this?  Maybe we should look at some magic newspaper archives.

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43 minutes ago, Gissie said:

I thought you were the Truth 9/11 shill.

Hi is.

But his dementia is apparently setting in, and he forgot all the bullshit he spewed about nanothermite and buildings falling faster than gravity would allow them. Honestly, I only did some light lifting with Random/Astro in that threat. It was mostly Frenchie that eviscerated him day after day, and like a useful idiot Random/Astro just kept returning with more foil hatted nonsense.

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6 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Believing in magic is useful for some people.

Anyone heard of an American politician getting China to reverse course on something like this?  Maybe we should look at some magic newspaper archives.

The future hasn't been written yet. The USA is strong, we can make all kinds of things happen, and we've done so in the past. Hell, we dismantled empires in the name of our grandchildren. If you don't think that Hong Kong has a chance, then fuck off to bed. You aren't needed by Hong Kong, you're disposable.

Those people are fighting for their lives, and people like you, who have no faith in their resolve ... people like you are just useful idiots for the Chinese Communists.

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48 minutes ago, mikewof said:

What will they win? Howabout the freedom to not have a boot smash their face in? That sounds like a good start, right?

And to what you wrote in bold, I don't know what it's like in New Zealand, I've never been there. But in the USA, our elected officers have constituents, of which I am one. And when enough constituents tell their employees what to do, what to say, how to think, all kinds of magic happens.

You call that "pathetic"? It seems Clean agrees with you. But I call it "a shit-ton better than a few million people sitting on ass waiting for a few million Hongkongers to have their futures erased."

If enough people make it clear that they stand with Hong Kong and that they're willing to vote with their wallets, then they have a chance. But Hongkongers aren't sitting on ass, they're fighting. And they're fighting with the threat of having their lives ruined by China. You and I don't have that threat. We can stand by Hongkongers with little fear of anything bad happening to us as a result. So do it, you owe it to them. It's not "pathetic", it's called "being a human being."

Hong Kong is part of China. Hong Kong should have had certain rights for 50 years after they were given back to China. China has decided that they will renege on those promises, surprise, surprise.

You just rabbit on about shit you know nothing about. I do need to be careful. Unlike you, I have lived there for years and understand what is happening. I also understand that if I not careful I can be imprisoned when I return.

So sit in your safe little house, writing your ridiculous letters, making zero difference to events you don't even understand. On this subject you come across like Randumb and 9/11, deranged and out of touch with reality.

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1 hour ago, Gissie said:

Hong Kong is part of China. Hong Kong should have had certain rights for 50 years after they were given back to China. China has decided that they will renege on those promises, surprise, surprise.

You just rabbit on about shit you know nothing about. I do need to be careful. Unlike you, I have lived there for years and understand what is happening. I also understand that if I not careful I can be imprisoned when I return.

So sit in your safe little house, writing your ridiculous letters, making zero difference to events you don't even understand. On this subject you come across like Randumb and 9/11, deranged and out of touch with reality.

The way we can support Hong Kong is to give its people green cards with a path to citizenship.

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1 hour ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

And to give aid & comfort to the commies oppressing them, right jerkz? Funny how you now are so silent......

I am not sure what you are talking about.  I trade with Chinese people that want to be free.  I have never done any business with the Chinese government or any government owned manufacturers.  

Giving them green cards appropriates China's most valuable resource, its best and brightest people.  It is the only action that would force any change in China short of going to war.

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4 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

:lol: liar.

I get that you are a clown, and a serious discussion is a waste of time.

There are 91 million members of the Chinese Communist Party out of a population of 1.4 billion.

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18 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

Exactly. About 1 out of 11 adults and not randomly distributed. 

Government officials and heads of state owned enterprises for the most part.  

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50 minutes ago, jzk said:

I am not sure what you are talking about.  I trade with Chinese people that want to be free.  I have never done any business with the Chinese government or any government owned manufacturers.  

Giving them green cards appropriates China's most valuable resource, its best and brightest people.  It is the only action that would force any change in China short of going to war.

Why the fuck would Chinese people want to move to a backwards, plague-ridden, racist, mismanaged shit hole like the USA?

And if you do business in China then you are doing business with the Chinese gov't. To say otherwise is just stupid....

Oh wait.....

- DSK

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1 minute ago, Steam Flyer said:

Why the fuck would Chinese people want to move to a backwards, plague-ridden, racist, mismanaged shit hole like the USA?

And if you do business in China then you are doing business with the Chinese gov't. To say otherwise is just stupid....

Oh wait.....

- DSK

I am doing business with regular Chinese people that just want to better their lives.  And you are doing business with them too.

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https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/politics/article/3095590/national-security-law-one-month-after-its-adoption-how-has

"National security law: one month after its adoption, how has Beijing’s sweeping new legislation changed Hong Kong?"

  • Critics say the long arm of new legislation will have a chilling effect on politics in the city, as police release wanted list of suspects who have fled
  • From arrests to a mass disqualification of Legco hopefuls and pushback from social media giants, the law has been felt across a broad swathe of society

 

I have a feeling that the 300 thousand +, Canadian passport holders, living in Hong Kong will be heading this way ASAP.

If they don't get detained.

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1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

Why the fuck would Chinese people want to move to a backwards, plague-ridden, racist, mismanaged shit hole like the USA?

And if you do business in China then you are doing business with the Chinese gov't. To say otherwise is just stupid....

Oh wait.....

- DSK

They'll come to Canada instead, many already have Canadian passports.  Real estate values here are about to skyrocket again.

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6 hours ago, jzk said:

I am not sure what you are talking about.  I trade with Chinese people that want to be free.  I have never done any business with the Chinese government or any government owned manufacturers.  

Giving them green cards appropriates China's most valuable resource, its best and brightest people.  It is the only action that would force any change in China short of going to war.

Every company is potentially under the control of the PRC. It is the law.

As for giving green cards forcing change, you just show your ignorance of the situation. Xi would have no problem with the citizens of HK leaving. At the moment they are a big pain in the ass and need to be re-educated into subservient servants of the state. There is no way they can be allowed to spread this independence or voting rubbish, so they need to be crushed. He is happy to do this, sacrifice 7 million for the good of a billion. But it would also be easy to just have them piss off. Problem gone, spin it to the people as the fault of whatever country let them in. Use it to Stoke the fires of nationalism a bit more.

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10 minutes ago, Gissie said:

Every company is potentially under the control of the PRC. It is the law.

As for giving green cards forcing change, you just show your ignorance of the situation. Xi would have no problem with the citizens of HK leaving. At the moment they are a big pain in the ass and need to be re-educated into subservient servants of the state. There is no way they can be allowed to spread this independence or voting rubbish, so they need to be crushed. He is happy to do this, sacrifice 7 million for the good of a billion. But it would also be easy to just have them piss off. Problem gone, spin it to the people as the fault of whatever country let them in. Use it to Stoke the fires of nationalism a bit more.

China has a huge demographic problem.  It was stupid enough to limit the creating of its greatest resource, its people.  If the best and the brightest flee, China is fucked. 

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6 minutes ago, jzk said:

China has a huge demographic problem.  It was stupid enough to limit the creating of its greatest resource, its people.  If the best and the brightest flee, China is fucked. 

But the best and brightest won't flee. The fact you think they will shows how much you don't understand.

Yes they do have a demographic problem, you have that right.

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6 hours ago, Keith said:

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/politics/article/3095590/national-security-law-one-month-after-its-adoption-how-has

"National security law: one month after its adoption, how has Beijing’s sweeping new legislation changed Hong Kong?"

  • Critics say the long arm of new legislation will have a chilling effect on politics in the city, as police release wanted list of suspects who have fled
  • From arrests to a mass disqualification of Legco hopefuls and pushback from social media giants, the law has been felt across a broad swathe of society

 

I have a feeling that the 300 thousand +, Canadian passport holders, living in Hong Kong will be heading this way ASAP.

If they don't get detained.

They're mostly the wealthy. They'll be fine.

They're almost always fine.

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6 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Why the fuck would Chinese people want to move to a backwards, plague-ridden, racist, mismanaged shit hole like the USA?

Perhaps so that they aren't thrown into prison for writing the wrong kind of poetry? Or sentenced to death in a mobile organ harvesting van for publishing the wrong kind of newspaper, or medicating themselves with an illegal drug?

This 'aint rocket surgery, Steamer, it's called "running from authoritarianism" and it's been kind popular on Planet Earth for the last few hundred years.

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9 hours ago, jzk said:

The way we can support Hong Kong is to give its people green cards with a path to citizenship.

As long as it's a lottery type system, so that everyday, normal, non-wealthy Hongkongers can have the chance to escape, sure.

And I'm okay with opening spots for Hongkongers who can show demonstrated value to our industries ... which doesn't mean being wealthy, but rather an established track record. As you mentioned in another post, if China knows that we openly and notoriously poach their best and their brightest, perhaps they will think twice before letting a tyrant oppress their people.

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11 hours ago, Gissie said:

Hong Kong is part of China. Hong Kong should have had certain rights for 50 years after they were given back to China. China has decided that they will renege on those promises, surprise, surprise.

You just rabbit on about shit you know nothing about. I do need to be careful. Unlike you, I have lived there for years and understand what is happening. I also understand that if I not careful I can be imprisoned when I return.

So sit in your safe little house, writing your ridiculous letters, making zero difference to events you don't even understand. On this subject you come across like Randumb and 9/11, deranged and out of touch with reality.

That's adorable. So you lived there, you have friends there, and you're not willing to put your ass on the line to protect your brothers and sisters in Hongkong because you might want to go back at some point, and if the assholes are in charge whom you're not making any effort to stop, then you will be inconvenienced?

The people of Hong Kong deserve all of our support. Clean has an excuse, he's a lawyer, they're often overly selfish and self-centered. But you don't get that excuse. You know what's going on over there, it's impacting the people you know, and you're sitting on ass because how your actions might negatively influence your life at some point inthefuture.com.

I know enough about Hong Kong to know that Hongkongers are getting fucked by China, and assholes like you won't raise a finger to stop it.

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Interesting turn in this thread ...

JZK is showing that he has a sufficient space in his life to support Chinese and Hong Kong dissidents, while Gissie and Clean have clearly shown that they can't be bothered to give a rat's asshole about their Hong Kong bothers and sisters who are being prepared for the slaughter.

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1 hour ago, Gissie said:

Every company is potentially under the control of the PRC. It is the law.

As for giving green cards forcing change, you just show your ignorance of the situation. Xi would have no problem with the citizens of HK leaving. At the moment they are a big pain in the ass and need to be re-educated into subservient servants of the state. There is no way they can be allowed to spread this independence or voting rubbish, so they need to be crushed. He is happy to do this, sacrifice 7 million for the good of a billion. But it would also be easy to just have them piss off. Problem gone, spin it to the people as the fault of whatever country let them in. Use it to Stoke the fires of nationalism a bit more.

sadly this. 7% don't matter. Imagine each city with the uprising like in HK.

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21 minutes ago, mikewof said:

Interesting turn in this thread ...

JZK is showing that he has a sufficient space in his life to support Chinese and Hong Kong dissidents, while Gissie and Clean have clearly shown that they can't be bothered to give a rat's asshole about their Hong Kong bothers and sisters who are being prepared for the slaughter.

This is where you just change direction to keep your ignorant crap dribbling down your chin.

Why would these people want to leave HK? You keep telling us they are winning against China, so why should they worry.

You claim they are winning yet you then say they are being prepared for slaughter. So which is it oh enlightened one? Are they winning against the new world super power or are they up for the chop.

You seem to actually think that your congressman works for you and writing him a letter will help these people that are winning anyway. That the world will step up to save a few million, that are winning anyway.

The only difference between those in HK and you is that they know they are losers. Yet they are prepared to fight on. You fight on with no idea that you are a loser. Resorting in the end to playing the man and not the ball, typical of someone unable to admit they may not know it all.

As for your claim about what I do or don't do for the situation, I really don't care what you think. You don't need, or even deserve to know my involvement. I am only here to try and give a reasonably informed opinion on events over there, unlike yourself. So I will try and refrain from rising to your ill disguised bait for now.

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1 hour ago, mikewof said:

As long as it's a lottery type system, so that everyday, normal, non-wealthy Hongkongers can have the chance to escape, sure.

And I'm okay with opening spots for Hongkongers who can show demonstrated value to our industries ... which doesn't mean being wealthy, but rather an established track record. As you mentioned in another post, if China knows that we openly and notoriously poach their best and their brightest, perhaps they will think twice before letting a tyrant oppress their people.

I don't mean do a lottery.  I mean, let all of them in that want to come.  I would do that for immigration in general, actually, but no criminals etc.

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42 minutes ago, jzk said:

I don't mean do a lottery.  I mean, let all of them in that want to come.  I would do that for immigration in general, actually, but no criminals etc.

Crazy idea, it just might work. Why not? Hong Kong has about 7.5 million people, if say 10% of those are sufficiently persecuted by the Chinese government that they need an emergency escape to the USA, that's less than a million highly-educated, highly effective friends, absorbed into a population of 350 million some people. Not a big deal, why not? The "no criminals" thing might be a stumbling block though, China is passing out criminal retributions for Hong Kong activists like candy, perhaps criminals can receive consideration on a case-by-case basis if we determine that the "crime" was just China's reaction to their attempt at human rights?

But yeah, the USA could offer open political asylum to any Hong Konger and family who needs it. I would support the elected representatives to support that. As you mention, if China knows that we will take any and all of the people who threaten them most, that alone could be an impetus to change.

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1 hour ago, Gissie said:

This is where you just change direction to keep your ignorant crap dribbling down your chin.

Why would these people want to leave HK? You keep telling us they are winning against China, so why should they worry.

You claim they are winning yet you then say they are being prepared for slaughter. So which is it oh enlightened one? Are they winning against the new world super power or are they up for the chop.

You seem to actually think that your congressman works for you and writing him a letter will help these people that are winning anyway. That the world will step up to save a few million, that are winning anyway.

 

They are winning against China, and when they can no longer handle the oppression or the fight, they should have an escape route to help them avoid a Chinese prison as punishment for fighting for social justice. Which is it? They are winning, and China will seem to imprison and prosecute any and all Hongkongers who offer a barrier to their efforts to mainline Hong Kong.

My senator works for me. In this case, it's kind of an easy win though, my representative has already condemned the arrests of pro-democracy leaders in Hong Kong. So he has a sympathetic ear, but I tell him anyway, and I tell the ones with less sympathetic ears.

 

1 hour ago, Gissie said:

The only difference between those in HK and you is that they know they are losers. Yet they are prepared to fight on. You fight on with no idea that you are a loser. Resorting in the end to playing the man and not the ball, typical of someone unable to admit they may not know it all.

As for your claim about what I do or don't do for the situation, I really don't care what you think. You don't need, or even deserve to know my involvement. I am only here to try and give a reasonably informed opinion on events over there, unlike yourself. So I will try and refrain from rising to your ill disguised bait for now.

Wow, dude, you're an asshole. No offense man, but you're an asshole.

You live in the luxuries of your country without a worry of persecution and your take on Hong Kong is that you can't be bothered because it's a hopeless situation and you don't want fuck up any potential vacations to China.

The youth of Hong Kong would not risk their lives and their freedom in protesting if they though they are "losers" regardless that a carefully-chosen Hongkonger tells the radio reporter what he has been told to find.

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12 minutes ago, mikewof said:

Crazy idea, it just might work. Why not? Hong Kong has about 7.5 million people, if say 10% of those are sufficiently persecuted by the Chinese government that they need an emergency escape to the USA, that's less than a million highly-educated, highly effective friends, absorbed into a population of 350 million some people. Not a big deal, why not? The "no criminals" thing might be a stumbling block though, China is passing out criminal retributions for Hong Kong activists like candy, perhaps criminals can receive consideration on a case-by-case basis if we determine that the "crime" was just China's reaction to their attempt at human rights?

But yeah, the USA could offer open political asylum to any Hong Konger and family who needs it. I would support the elected representatives to support that. As you mention, if China knows that we will take any and all of the people who threaten them most, that alone could be an impetus to change.

Regarding criminals, I mean I support open immigration in general, less real criminals like murderers, etc.

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6 minutes ago, mikewof said:

They are winning against China, and when they can no longer handle the oppression or the fight, they should have an escape route to help them avoid a Chinese prison as punishment for fighting for social justice. Which is it? They are winning, and China will seem to imprison and prosecute any and all Hongkongers who offer a barrier to their efforts to mainline Hong Kong.

My senator works for me. In this case, it's kind of an easy win though, my representative has already condemned the arrests of pro-democracy leaders in Hong Kong. So he has a sympathetic ear, but I tell him anyway, and I tell the ones with less sympathetic ears.

 

Wow, dude, you're an asshole. No offense man, but you're an asshole.

You live in the luxuries of your country without a worry of persecution and your take on Hong Kong is that you can't be bothered because it's a hopeless situation and you don't want fuck up any potential vacations to China.

The youth of Hong Kong would not risk their lives and their freedom in protesting if they though they are "losers" regardless that a carefully-chosen Hongkonger tells the radio reporter what he has been told to find.

Last time. They know they will lose. They know they can't win. They are prepared to go down fighting. Quiet simple really, but just a step to far for you.

See ya.

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Rule number one,

When in control, first control the message.

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/law-and-crime/article/3096825/hong-kong-police-scheme-give-only-trusted-media-access

 

"Hong Kong police scheme to give only ‘trusted media’ access to cordoned off areas draws press backlash"

  • "Police chief declines to say whether force has a list of mistrusted outlets"
  • "Journalists from local outfit as well as foreign wire services among those barred from attending briefing at Apple Daily offices on Monday"
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4 hours ago, Gissie said:

Last time. They know they will lose. They know they can't win. They are prepared to go down fighting. Quiet simple really, but just a step to far for you.

See ya.

You suggest that half-a-million young people would risk prison and potentially even execution, for a fight that "they know they will lose"?

Your opinions on Hong Kong are just recycled Chinese spin ...

 

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4 hours ago, jzk said:

Regarding criminals, I mean I support open immigration in general, less real criminals like murderers, etc.

Sure, we don't need China to dump its prisons into us like Cuba did. But your idea that China could be hurt by the USA poaching its best and brightest is an interesting take, I think there is something to it.

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28 minutes ago, mikewof said:

Blah blah, the protesters are winning, blah blah, the protesters are all being set up for slaughter blah blah, I know how it works, blah blah, write to my congressman, blah blah, fuck I'm good, blah blah.

 

FIFY

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5 minutes ago, Rain Man said:

There's a better fix: 

image.png.9643ac865b655e64453455fcf47f556c.png

Haven't used that function on anyone yet. Mike can be interesting at times, just on this one he is just showing a complete lack of knowledge. Pity you can't block someone for just one thread.

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On 8/10/2020 at 7:00 PM, mikewof said:

But yeah, the USA could offer open political asylum to any Hong Konger and family who needs it. I would support the elected representatives to support that. As you mention, if China knows that we will take any and all of the people who threaten them most, that alone could be an impetus to change.

Did you mean "would support" or "continue to support" those reps?

On 7/6/2020 at 8:16 AM, Cacoethesic Tom said:

Senate Bill Would Grant Refugee Status to Hong Kong Protestors
 

Quote

 

Five senators introduced a bill Tuesday that would grant priority for refugee status to Hongkongers fleeing government persecution or arrest.

The Hong Kong Safe Harbor Act was sponsored by Sens. Marco Rubio (R–Fla.), Todd Young (R–Ind.), Robert Menendez (D–N.J.), Benjamin Cardin (D–Md.), and Jeff Merkley (D–Ore.). 

In addition to granting priority status for visa applications, the legislation would allow Hongkongers to get nonimmigrant visas even if they plan to immigrate and would keep applicants eligible even if their Hong Kong residency is revoked. More notably, Hong Kong residents would be exempt from the existing visa quotas, which ordinarily create fierce competition among visa applicants.

The bill's beneficiaries are currently limited to Hongkongers actively involved in recent protests. Specifically, it covers protest organizers, first-aid responders, journalists, lawyers, and members of their direct families.

...

 

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5 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Trump vetoes, Sponsors already know.  Is that really 'support'?

 

Do you think that Trump will veto it?

One one hand, he signed his sanctions bill to the against the outright threats of China, but on the other hand he has capitulated to China is taking away Hong Kong's labeling authority, in clear violation of their 2048 protections.

I don't know if he just kind of stupid by not having any ideological consistency, or if he has some negotiation trick up his sleeve with China, or if he's just so dumb that he's letting China run the show for everything that actually matters. When Hong Kong loses their labeling autonomy in the USA, then the USA is no longer a genuine friend to democracy in the Hong Kong Democratic Enclave of China.

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10 hours ago, Gissie said:

Haven't used that function on anyone yet. Mike can be interesting at times, just on this one he is just showing a complete lack of knowledge. Pity you can't block someone for just one thread.

Maybe you can explain yourself better than "they know they will lose" at which point we can have a conversation on this.

The young people of Hong Kong are openly and notoriously rebelling against an Authoritarian Government. That's not a small act, that's an act of abandon, of their willingness to die for democracy that you and I barely have to lift a finger to keep. If they fail, they will be imprisoned and executed by a Chinese Authority that has already shown its willingness to massacre those who disobey.

Your idea that the world shouldn't support Hongkongers because "they know they will lose" is just infantile, and it's demonstrably wrong. So if you perhaps came to this conversation with ways that the world COULD help the people of Hong Kong, then your claim to my "complete lack of knowledge" might actually mean something. But for now, you're claiming something that is violently preposterous ... that half-million-some active protestors in Hong Kong are between a wall and on-coming tank and they stand there knowing that they're about to crushed. It's not one Chinese dissident in front of one tank, it's half a million Hongkonger in front the full might of China's authoritarian powers. I have little doubt that if China didn't have to be a good global citizen to sell their resources and products, that the tanks would have rolled into Hong Kong long ago.

But they haven't. The protesters have not given up and accepted loss, as you claim. That a bunch of Un-Anarchistic Sailors so willingly write off the futures of the Hongkongers so desperate to have what we have, that's an embarrassment. But then again, this article does explain some of what's happening with Australian and New Zealand China policies: https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/06/27/china-bullying-australia-new-zealand-canada-britain-trump/

So yeah, in some sense I get it, you want to be a gentle world citizen, even to the point of letting a quarter-million soldiers leave the imprint of their right boot into the faces of half-a-million Hongkongers. But it's different in the USA for anarchist punks of my generation. When I see half-a-million people fight a tyrant who wants to put them into prison for writing seditious poetry, or play seditious punk rock, those are my people.

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3 hours ago, mikewof said:

Maybe you can explain yourself better than "they know they will lose" at which point we can have a conversation on this.

The young people of Hong Kong are openly and notoriously rebelling against an Authoritarian Government. That's not a small act, that's an act of abandon, of their willingness to die for democracy that you and I barely have to lift a finger to keep. If they fail, they will be imprisoned and executed by a Chinese Authority that has already shown its willingness to massacre those who disobey.

Your idea that the world shouldn't support Hongkongers because "they know they will lose" is just infantile, and it's demonstrably wrong. So if you perhaps came to this conversation with ways that the world COULD help the people of Hong Kong, then your claim to my "complete lack of knowledge" might actually mean something. But for now, you're claiming something that is violently preposterous ... that half-million-some active protestors in Hong Kong are between a wall and on-coming tank and they stand there knowing that they're about to crushed. It's not one Chinese dissident in front of one tank, it's half a million Hongkonger in front the full might of China's authoritarian powers. I have little doubt that if China didn't have to be a good global citizen to sell their resources and products, that the tanks would have rolled into Hong Kong long ago.

But they haven't. The protesters have not given up and accepted loss, as you claim. That a bunch of Un-Anarchistic Sailors so willingly write off the futures of the Hongkongers so desperate to have what we have, that's an embarrassment. But then again, this article does explain some of what's happening with Australian and New Zealand China policies: https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/06/27/china-bullying-australia-new-zealand-canada-britain-trump/

So yeah, in some sense I get it, you want to be a gentle world citizen, even to the point of letting a quarter-million soldiers leave the imprint of their right boot into the faces of half-a-million Hongkongers. But it's different in the USA for anarchist punks of my generation. When I see half-a-million people fight a tyrant who wants to put them into prison for writing seditious poetry, or play seditious punk rock, those are my people.

Just full of more shit. You initially claimed they were winning against China. Now you claim they will all die without help. You then put your own ideas of how others feel and behave to justify yourself.

I get the impression you are unable to consider losing any 'debate' you get involved in. Change stories, directions then abuse others. Anything so you can claim to win in your little stairwell of life.

So fuck off, you really are a waste of a good human skin.

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1 hour ago, Gissie said:

Just full of more shit. You initially claimed they were winning against China. Now you claim they will all die without help. You then put your own ideas of how others feel and behave to justify yourself.

I get the impression you are unable to consider losing any 'debate' you get involved in. Change stories, directions then abuse others. Anything so you can claim to win in your little stairwell of life.

So fuck off, you really are a waste of a good human skin.

They are obviously winning against China, that's not even open to debate ... they are holding open and notorious street protests against a Totalitarian Dictatorship, and most of them remain free in Hong Kong. If they tried that in Beijing they would be dismantled immediately. So obviously they are winning.

But China is relentless, and they have clearly demonstrated their willingness to execute their own people who disobey their public protests laws. So yes, Hongkongers absolutely do need our support.

If you choose not to support them with whatever actions you have available to you, from the safety of your representative democracy, then that is your business. I choose another path however. China is openly violating their agreement with the people of Hong Kong and the established 2047 embargo.

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1 hour ago, mikewof said:

They are obviously winning against China, that's not even open to debate ... 

This is why it is pointless discussing it with you. Plus you have a bloody interesting idea of what winning means.

Have a nice life.

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7 hours ago, mikewof said:

When Hong Kong loses their labeling autonomy in the USA, then the USA is no longer a genuine friend to democracy in the Hong Kong Democratic Enclave of China.

The US has not been a 'genuine friend' to democracy in more than a century, if ever.  You know this. 

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17 hours ago, Gissie said:

Haven't used that function on anyone yet. Mike can be interesting at times, just on this one he is just showing a complete lack of knowledge. Pity you can't block someone for just one thread.

..cough, cough, told ya...

image.png.e5b704cb6d1a62c2f635e7be31591143.png

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3 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

The US has not been a 'genuine friend' to democracy in more than a century, if ever.  You know this. 

Yeah, the Dulles Brothers fucked it all up.

But when you you're in Hong Kong, staring down the barrel of a gun, the USA and Britain can be a friend.

And as bad as we have been, the Brits have been as bad and worse.

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  • 1 month later...

Why Hong Kong's Protests Turned Violent
 

Quote

 

...As the protests progressed, vandalism in the city's commercial, financial, and political nerve center became commonplace, particularly against companies with "China" in their names. As police tactics—including injudicious use of tear gas, attacks on MTR riders suspected of being protesters, and, eventually, use of live ammunition—increasingly came under fire, clashes between police and protesters became more and more frequent. Certain incidents alarmed even those sympathetic to the pro-democracy movement. Last August, for instance, a group of protesters at Hong Kong International Airport bound and beat a reporter for China's hawkishly pro-CCP Global Times newspaper. In October, video circulated of a crowd of protesters surrounding an investment bank employee who shouted "We are all Chinese!" in the dialect spoken on the mainland and received several punches to the face in reply. Perhaps worst of all, in November, after a middle-aged man accosted protesters, one responded by splashing him with a flammable liquid and lighting him on fire.

...

In an interview last fall on Germany's DW News, a pro-democracy student activist struggled to answer pointed questions about the movement's refusal to condemn violence.

...

Still, nonviolence has batted .000 against this regime. And in the district council elections in November 2019, the pan-democratic bloc, which refused to condemn the protests, crushed Beijing-friendly parties that did condemn them—suggesting the protesters' more aggressive methods have not lost their fellow Hongkongers' hearts and minds.

...

 

Those are alarming incidents and I don't see what they've accomplished by beating a reporter or a bank manager, much less by burning a middle aged man.

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On 8/12/2020 at 9:09 PM, MR.CLEAN said:

The US has not been a 'genuine friend' to democracy in more than a century, if ever.  You know this. 

If we go by the nations with 'democratic' or 'peoples' in their official name I think we would find democracy overrated.

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17 hours ago, Cacoethesic Tom said:

Why Hong Kong's Protests Turned Violent
 

Those are alarming incidents and I don't see what they've accomplished by beating a reporter or a bank manager, much less by burning a middle aged man.

Tomballs taking the commie party line? It’s be surprising if he weren’t a Republican.

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4 hours ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:
22 hours ago, Cacoethesic Tom said:

Why Hong Kong's Protests Turned Violent
 

Those are alarming incidents and I don't see what they've accomplished by beating a reporter or a bank manager, much less by burning a middle aged man.

Tomballs taking the commie party line? It’s be surprising if he weren’t a Republican.

Commies aren't really noted for non-violence. What do you think was accomplished by assaulting and burning people?

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  • 3 months later...

It's nice when Ted Cruz and the Chinese agree
 

Quote

 

...

The bill Cruz blocked, the Hong Kong People's Freedom and Choice Act of 2020, would grant political asylum to any resident of Hong Kong who arrives in the United States, allowing them to remain in the country legally after the expiration of any other visa. The United States already extends that special status to refugees from 10 other countries, and the bill would have merely added Hong Kong to the list.

...

 

 

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The CCP must control the message.

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/politics/article/3115374/hong-kong-national-security-law-media-tycoon-jimmy-lai

"Hong Kong national security law: media tycoon Jimmy Lai to return to court on Thursday for prosecutors’ bid to keep him behind bars"

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On 8/12/2020 at 9:38 PM, mikewof said:

 

But when you you're in Hong Kong, staring down the barrel of a gun, the USA can be your friend.

 

Ted Cruz disagrees with you.

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https://www.scmp.com/news/china/politics/article/3116553/chinese-communist-party-introduces-new-rules-what-members-can

"Chinese Communist Party introduces new rules on what members can say as it ‘boosts internal democracy’"

 

  • The revised rule book says cadres can make complaints about their superiors but are prohibited from airing them in public
  • They are also banned from expressing opinions that are ‘not consistent’ with the decisions of the central leadership

 

 

The CCP continues to tighten rules and control their humans.

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On 9/16/2020 at 5:19 AM, Polytelum Tom said:

What do you think was accomplished by assaulting and burning people?

Not so fast gringo !!  A good deal of the violence may well have come from agents provocateur's . . 

You know, the kind that many cops used against BLM. 

Seriously, you should read up on that. It is a time-honored tactic of 

security forces confronting peaceful protests. 

And this is why protesters must be well trained to ID and isolate the AP's. 

I have been through that training a number of times - the best I have seen is by 

the School of the Americas protesters at Ft. Benning, GA. 

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  • 5 months later...