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Dude I’m big what is there for big dudes who want to dinghy race?


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Hey anarchy dinghies! I am 6’2” and 280 what in the world is out there that will support a big dude wanting to go fast in a small boat? Will I have to build my own or is there a dinghy with an A sym that I can power up with my size and rip around a mix fleet course?

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1 minute ago, OlySailor said:

Hey anarchy dinghies! I am 6’2” and 280 what in the world is out there that will support a big dude wanting to go fast in a small boat? Will I have to build my own or is there a dinghy with an A sym that I can power up with my size and rip around a mix fleet course?

505 as crew. A lot of us crew as owners. Get a really petite hot shot female helmswoman.

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1 hour ago, OlySailor said:

is there a dinghy with an A sym that I can power up with my size and rip around a mix fleet course?

VX Evo was designed for that purpose but pretty high price floor ($15kish) and tiny used market

"Fast" is relative, if you want to race OD there's always the pain box  Finn and I'm sure there would be guys happy to hang you off the side of a Star.

Like Fastyacht said, 5O5 if you can find a girl or otherwise tiny guy to drive the bus.

You're probably at the top end for MC's, Megabytes are cheap and easy if you just want to do Yardstick.

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The VX Evo would be a fun choice, especially if you don't have a fleet of a certain boat nearby.  There is a VX Evo for sale in the classifieds, https://sailinganarchy.com/advert/vx-evo-002-for-sale/  I'd want to blast around in one of these if I didn't have a Laser fleet to be a part of.

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Hey thanks for the responses everyone. Keto diet would be something, but I came out of the womb at 11+ lbs and never have been below 240 since 18. I own a star and often let go of the helm to win the large fleet we have here in olympia. I have sailed a finn and had fun but` want a asym to skirt down wind with, so I guess a Evo is gonna be my jam. I just wish the had a rig a bit bigger then their A . 

Would love to find one around in the NW to give a go on and see if its a fit. 

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Maybe an RS100 with a 10.4 rig.

They say 110 kg (242 kg) is the appropriate upper weight - not that far off.

If you want to skipper a two person boat, what twin wire boats do you have around your way (so you can compensate with a light crew). I only ask because we have someone really heavy sails our Fifteens successfully the same way - with a 50 kg female crew (but the Fifteens are not in the US). Mind you, the light crews have a lot of trouble dealing with a large kite when the skipper is heavy. It makes it much harder for them.

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4 hours ago, Gilles29 said:

If you are looking for a single handed dinghy, the Devoti D-One should be a very good choice. 

I just sold one to Richmond, CA. I would have offered it to him in a moment if I had it around but it sold a few weeks ago.

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8 hours ago, OlySailor said:

Hey thanks for the responses everyone. Keto diet would be something, but I came out of the womb at 11+ lbs and never have been below 240 since 18. I own a star and often let go of the helm to win the large fleet we have here in olympia. I have sailed a finn and had fun but` want a asym to skirt down wind with, so I guess a Evo is gonna be my jam. I just wish the had a rig a bit bigger then their A . 

Would love to find one around in the NW to give a go on and see if its a fit. 

There's got to be a West coast Evo that you could try if you reached out to the class.

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5 hours ago, Rambler said:

Maybe an RS100 with a 10.4 rig.

They say 110 kg (242 kg) is the appropriate upper weight - not that far off.

If you want to skipper a two person boat, what twin wire boats do you have around your way (so you can compensate with a light crew). I only ask because we have someone really heavy sails our Fifteens successfully the same way - with a 50 kg female crew (but the Fifteens are not in the US). Mind you, the light crews have a lot of trouble dealing with a large kite when the skipper is heavy. It makes it much harder for them.

In the USA? Twin wire boats? Surely you jest.

- DSK

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Sportboats and cats can benefit from the weight being back as well as out, good for a big driver.

Any VX looks like fun just to sail around in.

What fleets are there around Olympia?  Quality of racing aside, OD means a supply of boats and support, and somebody to sell it to when you're done.

 

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4 hours ago, fastyacht said:

There are about nine intl 14s and about the same number of 49ers active in the whole USA...

Vanguard Vector?

We've never seen them in Australia, but I get the impression their rigs are somewhat smaller than those on our 15's, and the hulls look narrower, so may not carry weight as well

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17 hours ago, Rambler said:
21 hours ago, fastyacht said:

There are about nine intl 14s and about the same number of 49ers active in the whole USA...

Vanguard Vector?

We've never seen them in Australia, but I get the impression their rigs are somewhat smaller than those on our 15's, and the hulls look narrower, so may not carry weight as well

I sure wouldn't recommend an I-14 for this, but maybe the OD-14 or GP14 might be worth a try. The 5O5 is an awesome boat in all respects, too.

The Vector could also work, I've never sailed one and not sure about the weight.

One issue with these dinghies designed for two is that the controls are all laid out for two, it might be difficult for one person to reach everything he's gotta be able to adjust.

A Phantom would be a good choice if you could find one. And it's surprising what turns up, I've seen a Merlin-Rocket, and NS-14, a B-14 (with racks), and a few other unlikely boats here in the states. Lonely orphans, no class racing though.

The only way to have a boat for one-design racing is to pick a class that is active near you and get one. Usually these are a poor fit which is why one-design racing is dying in the US.

- DSK

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13 hours ago, Stanno said:

I'm a "unit" and love my Melges 14 with the big rig ...  but did look closely at the Evo but couldn't get any info on how to get one in / to Australia ...

I came back to mention the Melges 14.  Again, if fleets don't matter, it seems like a great boat with the Gold sail on it. As a 6'3" 220lb guy, I'd love to sail this boat but our Laser fleet is where it's at for the moment.  Time to lose 20-30lbs.

https://melges.com/melges-14/ 

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Not sure about the Vector recommendation.  They're a pretty tippy boat so if you don't have much skiff experience, it's a frustrating start. 

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1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

I sure wouldn't recommend an I-14 for this, but maybe the OD-14 or GP14 might be worth a try. The 5O5 is an awesome boat in all respects, too.

The Vector could also work, I've never sailed one and not sure about the weight.

One issue with these dinghies designed for two is that the controls are all laid out for two, it might be difficult for one person to reach everything he's gotta be able to adjust.

A Phantom would be a good choice if you could find one. And it's surprising what turns up, I've seen a Merlin-Rocket, and NS-14, a B-14 (with racks), and a few other unlikely boats here in the states. Lonely orphans, no class racing though.

The only way to have a boat for one-design racing is to pick a class that is active near you and get one. Usually these are a poor fit which is why one-design racing is dying in the US.

- DSK

I raced a GP-14 for years. It's a nifty litte boat. But you'd want the tiny helm or crew just like with a 505. IT is not a trapeze boat I did rig one and singlehanded with it. Was fun but a windmill makes a much better singlehand trapeze platform.

We also had a few NS14 racing in our old fleet of JY, V15 and 420.

I should mention the Flying Dutchman. Fewer fleet opportunities but has the same advantageous of the 505 but even more if large. Higher boom, longer waterline, a lot more sail. It can handle over 400 lb crew weight well (I did that and won in the classic division 25 years ago).

For fleet racing on a trapeze there is only one boat: the 505. In the US. That's it--if you want to race "for real." There are some FD fleets though very small--one somewhere norethwest we hear about (finf Seattle Dingyer on here0. There's a few still in New England--there used to be a really great regatta in New Hampshire. But no longer.

 

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2 minutes ago, fastyacht said:

I raced a GP-14 for years. It's a nifty litte boat. But you'd want the tiny helm or crew just like with a 505. IT is not a trapeze boat I did rig one and singlehanded with it. Was fun but a windmill makes a much better singlehand trapeze platform.

We also had a few NS14 racing in our old fleet of JY, V15 and 420.

I should mention the Flying Dutchman. Fewer fleet opportunities but has the same advantageous of the 505 but even more if large. Higher boom, longer waterline, a lot more sail. It can handle over 400 lb crew weight well (I did that and won in the classic division 25 years ago).

For fleet racing on a trapeze there is only one boat: the 505. In the US. That's it--if you want to race "for real." There are some FD fleets though very small--one somewhere norethwest we hear about (finf Seattle Dingyer on here0. There's a few still in New England--there used to be a really great regatta in New Hampshire. But no longer.

 

You mean the Jack Holt GP-14 or the offshoot Int'l 14 called the "Gran Prix 14" ? There were two attempts to 'standardize' and ' one-design-ize' the Int'l 14 which resulted in this, and the "One-Design 14" but I don't recall which one came first. Neither were competitive against updated I-14s. Either could make a good good "big guy"  singlehander but a little on the squirelly side... spending your first few years in the boat capsizing and desperately trying to avoid capsizing is not much fun.

The Dutchman is still the queen of the dinghy fleet IMHO. My foray into FD sailing was ended by H. Florence, might go that way again. It's got enough stability to not be a desperate balancing act for a big singlehander. But no fleets, as you say

FB- Doug

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Budget option is an old laser 2. Set up for 2 smaller people to sail, one on the wire. At your size would not need the trapeze up to medium winds. They came with a symetrical spin and a launch tube which would be a real fire drill for solo use, but some have modified them for asym.

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IF OP wants to enjoy class racing a dinghy on a trapese it is pretty much 505 or nothing (with noted exeption being FD in some small fleet setting, or heaven forbiid actual Intl 14, go all in, get that ridiculously hot shot female 45 kg helmswoman and just take the class by storm. About 15 boats iat North Americans +/-. Or get an F18 cat.

If he wants to rip around on a trapese there's all sorts of possibilities with varying percentages of possible finding. That Class Cup 16, Blaze, Boss, Laser5000 Laser4000, Vector, Raider! B14, Swift solo, Dudley Dix paper jet, 49er, 29er singlehanded (that would be a trip) MG/NS singlehanded, Windmill singlehanded,  the list goes on.

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4 hours ago, fastyacht said:

 

For fleet racing on a trapeze there is only one boat: the 505. In the US. That's it--if you want to race "for real." There are some FD fleets though very small--one somewhere norethwest we hear about (finf Seattle Dingyer on here0. There's a few still in New England--there used to be a really great regatta in New Hampshire. But no longer.

......................................................................................

If he wants to rip around on a trapese there's all sorts of possibilities with varying percentages of possible finding. That Class Cup 16, Blaze, Boss, Laser5000 Laser4000, Vector, Raider! B14, Swift solo, Dudley Dix paper jet, 49er, 29er singlehanded (that would be a trip) MG/NS singlehanded, Windmill singlehanded,  the list goes on.

It is a pity so many trapeze classes brought out in the 90's went down the path of incredibly narrow hulls and wings (like so many on your list) which just became too frustrating to take off. Or at the other end, production imitation skiffs that were too heavy and under powered to justify the name. There was nothing in the middle - which is where our Fifteens have been a boon.

I'm a skiff sailor from way back, so haven't sailed a boat that you can hold from the front in the shallows (because any self respecting skiff will fall on its side if you do) since my early teens, but still think most of those boats failed because they went too far.

Still, your posts raise some interesting questions.

If trapeze fleets are so rare, where do your 29er sailors go when the grow out of them? [The 49er doesn't seem to support club fleet racing very well anywhere I've heard of]

More interesting is your reference to NS/MG's. What are they doing in the States? I know some second hand NS's were sent to the West Coast of the US back in the 90's, but I', surprised they get a mention here. And didn't know an MG ever made the jump across the Pacific.

But really, as someone myself now in my mid 60's, don't people know that trapeze sailing is a lot easier on the body than full on hiking? [And a heck of a lot more fun]

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1 hour ago, Rambler said:

It is a pity so many trapeze classes brought out in the 90's went down the path of incredibly narrow hulls and wings (like so many on your list) which just became too frustrating to take off. Or at the other end, production imitation skiffs that were too heavy and under powered to justify the name. There was nothing in the middle - which is where our Fifteens have been a boon.

I'm a skiff sailor from way back, so haven't sailed a boat that you can hold from the front in the shallows (because any self respecting skiff will fall on its side if you do) since my early teens, but still think most of those boats failed because they went too far.

Still, your posts raise some interesting questions.

If trapeze fleets are so rare, where do your 29er sailors go when the grow out of them? [The 49er doesn't seem to support club fleet racing very well anywhere I've heard of]

More interesting is your reference to NS/MG's. What are they doing in the States? I know some second hand NS's were sent to the West Coast of the US back in the 90's, but I', surprised they get a mention here. And didn't know an MG ever made the jump across the Pacific.

But really, as someone myself now in my mid 60's, don't people know that trapeze sailing is a lot easier on the body than full on hiking? [And a heck of a lot more fun]

Your points are very good indeed and I share your interest in every one of them. As for the MG, I'm somewhat at the pointy end of performance boat culture. (Loosely in the orbit--not some mover and shaker) so I somehow run across these things. The 90s period shipment is exactly what I've come across. Two in my own neighborhood. But probably none until you got all the way to NC (Im in NE).

29er sailors? You think we have them here? Haha. Well, there are literally a couple at Sail Newport. That's not a good sign (in other words there really aren't many of them). Where do junior sailors go?  NOT into sailing. But I do know where they actually go: to work, paying 100k student loan  debt, and maybe (for those that enjoty it) a little sailing on OPB keels. Most just wash out entirely. The few youngish people racing dinghies tend to be in Finance or some other reasonably well-paying job and by age 30 or 35 might get a 505. The 20-somethings don't usually last more than a few years (sadly!!!). We all hope they will be back...(there's also "industry" insiders--proablby mpre by % than in the 70s. I mean coaches, builders, marine engineers, people like that which incldes me for instance. Even some sailmakers. Now theeres a dying breed. )

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24 minutes ago, fastyacht said:

The 20-somethings don't usually last more than a few years (sadly!!!). We all hope they will be back...(there's also "industry" insiders--proablby mpre by % than in the 70s. I mean coaches, builders, marine engineers, people like that which incldes me for instance. Even some sailmakers. Now theeres a dying breed. )

It's OT so I won't do more than mention it. I've been running a program very successful in getting 20's and 30's into high performance sailing and actually majorily changing the demographics of our sailing club. It's on a local, small scale basis and I may have explained it elsewhere on this forum. PM me if you want more info; although having a boat to do it with in the US sounds hard.

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5 minutes ago, Dave Clark said:

Megabyte, Finn, VXevo, Melges14,  MC Scow,  RS700. Most things really. Honestly, I think there are more boats built for heavy sailors than light ones.

DRC

Whatever Happened to the guy from the Falklands that sailed bothe the RS700 and also the other similar boat (that I totally forgot the name of now)? He wrote extensively about the differences and stuff.

Heavy versus light. Singlehanders versus crew. Take a crew boat it works for singlehanded. I think we all can agree that the moth and laser are out. MC Scow totally in except for lack of trapezing and spinnakering.

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3 hours ago, onepointfivethumbs said:
6 hours ago, Rambler said:

where do your 29er sailors go when the grow out of them?

Our what?

:lol::lol::(

Mustang1 raced 29ers for a while but I think he got out of it years ago. In the southeastern US regattas I've been to over the past ~ ten years, I think I've seen a class of 29ers once or twice at most.

- DSK

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On 2/19/2020 at 10:06 AM, Alan Crawford said:

The Weta has capacity for three people up to 530 lb and can be raced solo or two-up. No abs of steel required - you just sit on the tramps or on the floats.
Very forgiving and hard to capsize - but easy to right without assistance if you do go over - just flood a float and it comes up like a monohull (even in winds over 30 knots) - the water drains out as you sail away.
It's been approved for both Paralympics and World Masters Games.
Optional self-tacking jib makes taking easy even without a crew and the new Square Top mainsail improves performance in light winds.
Planes upwind at 10-12 knots and provides stable speed up to 20 knots downwind. 

 

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3 minutes ago, fastyacht said:

I've only seen one ever. At the HPDO. Thery'e more a West coast thing right? OP is on west coast so good idea.

Stunning boat. One regret in life is never having sailed a Contender.  The ultimate machine .  

It was selected as the Olympic single hander to replace the Finn 50 odd years ago but the Finn fought back at IYRU ...sound familiar?

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37 minutes ago, Mambo Kings said:

Stunning boat. One regret in life is never having sailed a Contender.  The ultimate machine .  

It was selected as the Olympic single hander to replace the Finn 50 odd years ago but the Finn fought back at IYRU ...sound familiar?

You saw the same exact actual boat at that regatta. I think it was 2013. Maybe 2012.

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P. K.  was about your size when he augmented  his fleet of Contenders with a 29er size spin.   There was a fleet of 3 in Santa Cruz before his interests moved on.   The boats were sold to Florida as a group, so some may still be in the augmented state.

Sailing at 280 in a Contender would be fun starting about 15kts.     I sail at 200 and I am powered up after about 12 kts upwind.

 

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14 hours ago, Mambo Kings said:

Stunning boat. One regret in life is never having sailed a Contender.  The ultimate machine .  

It was selected as the Olympic single hander to replace the Finn 50 odd years ago but the Finn fought back at IYRU ...sound familiar?

That's one of my biggest regrets too. I bought a kit and built the hull, but sold it before completing the deck, and never got to sail it.

Are you sure about the Olympics though? I remember a lot of wishful thinking, but no actual selection. 

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8 minutes ago, Doug Halsey said:

That's one of my biggest regrets too. I bought a kit and built the hull, but sold it before completing the deck, and never got to sail it.

Are you sure about the Olympics though? I remember a lot of wishful thinking, but no actual selection. 

IYRU had made the decision to replace the Finn which by the 1960s was getting very long in the tooth. 

Paul Elvstrom, Finn sailor extraordinaire, proposed that a single handed trapeze boat should represent the cutting edge of Olympic racing. However the boat he built turned out to be a dog in trials organized by IYRU.  At the end of the 3rd round of trials, a boat submitted by an unknown young self-educated Australian designer  (who later changed his name to Ben Lexcen) was the clear winner. The decision to replace the Finn had been made. The boat (The Contender) has been selected and approved by the equipment committee and enthusiastically endorsed by Elvstrom. Yet at the next Olympics, the Finn was still there and again and again.

Nothing against the Finn, which has produced some outstanding sailing athletes and memorable all time greats as medalists.  But it was one of many subsequent illustrations of the failings of IYRU when it comes to Olympic equipment selection.

IYRU, ISAF, World Sailing are uniquely unqualified to select the equipment for the Olympics due to a dysfunctional political process without any properly designed constitutional checks and balances.

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OlySailor, 

You are 100 lbs to heavy for the Contender. When I met Tony Smith in 80's he shook my hand and said loose 2 stone. I weighed 191 at the time. He was right. The most fun you can have is on the IC/AC and you'll finish your days wondering if you could have figured it out.

IPLore,

They had three rounds of trials because the "world" wasn't ready to except the Sailing Canoe "IC" as the ultimate singlehander. In changing the overall rule length to 16' they eliminated the IC. 

 

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On 2/18/2020 at 3:38 PM, fastyacht said:

There are about nine intl 14s and about the same number of 49ers active in the whole USA...

Really? Isn't the 49er well established Stateside, with teams of Olympic hopefuls? I've seen neglected 49ers under algae-ridden covers in UK boat-parks - they're far from rare.

I once dreamed of Contender sailing,  but watching them up-close turned me right off...very big sail, only 5ft beam...an upwind fight in order to enjoy those glorious reaches...but no kite!

Personally, for dinghy sailing I'd much sooner be too heavy than too light. Even quite small boats sail okay for fun with two adults aboard, but most exciting designs are fiendish for underweight singlehanders. In fact, the Contender might be ideal for the tall heavy gent asking here. But as a short lightweight with no hope in the class (or in any of the skiffs that favour the hefty), I've nevertheless left Contenders far behind in light winds, while singlehanding two-handed boats. So I kind of feel like the Contender is too much and not enough - for me.

It occurred to me for the first time this year, that I need at least one more dinghy - because my two-hander is too much effort (in fact, a god-damned liability) on breezy days. If I keep a cheap Laser at the club for a small annual fee-increase, I'll sail four times more often than I do in the big boat...even though it won't be the same kind of thrill. So I'd say don't look for one perfect boat, because there won't be enough perfect days to get the best from it. Much better to have several and pick the best one for each day - dinghies are cheap, after all.

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In my dreams I'd have my own dinghy museum fkeet.

It would have Avenger, Wave, Brynhild of course but then also a nethercott, a machete, a wood 505, a wood FD, wood Fireball....and weird English boats ive never sailed such as Merlin and Hornet. Thered be that Australian hiking board boat. And thered be a 49er and a Swift solo and an rs800. We,d also have American classics suchvas Comet, Duster, Windmill, Brutal Beast. And forvthose dayscwhen you need a kerl thered be a 110  and a Zip!

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There's enough interest between classes to justify a large collection. But for the best sailing, after years pondering 'which dinghy?', then being disappointed by tame training boats, and almost never entirely maintaining control of a big two-hander, I now know I need a Laser 4.7 for F5 days (I'm too lazy to hike hard) and the full (or Rooster 8.1) rig, for F3 fun when it's warm enough to swim.

But nothing would make me sell the big two-hander for the rare days when the wind is light enough - setting over 300sq ft of sail downwind and lighting a big cigar to remind the boys and girls in Aeros that I still have a hand free, is too much fun. If I weighed 280lbs, I'd get a 505, singlehand her from trapeze, and let the handicappers go to work on that. :lol:

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17 hours ago, kprice said:

P. K.  was about your size when he augmented  his fleet of Contenders with a 29er size spin.   There was a fleet of 3 in Santa Cruz before his interests moved on.   The boats were sold to Florida as a group, so some may still be in the augmented state.

Sailing at 280 in a Contender would be fun starting about 15kts.     I sail at 200 and I am powered up after about 12 kts upwind.

 

The Contenders from Santa Cruz to Florida as a fleet were all class legal as shipped. I know, as I was the 'shipper.' Sadly, they are used perhaps once a year at the Midwinters in Clearwater. Dave Ellis

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2 hours ago, Even Stranger said:

There's enough interest between classes to justify a large collection. But for the best sailing, after years pondering 'which dinghy?', then being disappointed by tame training boats, and almost never entirely maintaining control of a big two-hander, I now know I need a Laser 4.7 for F5 days (I'm too lazy to hike hard) and the full (or Rooster 8.1) rig, for F3 fun when it's warm enough to swim.

But nothing would make me sell the big two-hander for the rare days when the wind is light enough - setting over 300sq ft of sail downwind and lighting a big cigar to remind the boys and girls in Aeros that I still have a hand free, is too much fun. If I weighed 280lbs, I'd get a 505, singlehand her from trapeze, and let the handicappers go to work on that. :lol:

I singlehanded my 505 in my 20s when I weighed under 200 during the summer (around 185 +/-). A few years ago I was *still* doing that but at 222 lb. Oh--and fltying the spinnaker too! And not on a pole launcher! Not a double pole! Now everything is broken--boat, body. I've had some discussions with Lee Majors on what to do about it.

Until it was stolen, my V15 was an excellent singlehander. Much more comfortable than a laser. I tried sailing one of them again a few years ago (actually had a ridiculous amount of fun in the club fleet) but my god, it did NOT feel like it did in college! "Whty is my butt in the water?"

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A singlehanded spinnaker reach, trapezing a 505...respect. But was it specifically that, which broke the boat and your physique?

I guess the 505 isn't only too big for an ordinary-sized singlehander in any breeze, it's also too complicated...

...because even the fastest pair of hands will have to leave some adjustments unmade.

It's still very tempting though, and what could be more fun in light winds, than sailing faster than the Musto and RS700 skiffs, in a much more impressive boat?

Not nearly enough photos out there, of 505s being singlehanded...I think this is from 1988.

49572968338_8de0518aff_o.png

I admire that you managed the kite without a pole-launcher, but I want to make it practically possible, not a crazy rush that can easily go bad.

My attempts have been in winds when no amount of error could cause anything worse than embarrassment. 

Given how challenging it is, it's hard to see why singlehanding isn't permitted and encouraged by the class rules. Not that I pay them any attention.

I reckon the Five-oh would be a great boat for the big guy asking the question here...he can race in class, trapezing with a slim woman on the helm, and the rest of the time he can run the whole show singlehanded, for fun. 

 

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Broken bits unrelated to sailing. Boats just get old and need fixing. Bodies are fine until WHAM! something unexpected starts hurting. So no, singlehanding 505 did not cause anything.

That's a great picture. That's the year I started racing them! But my first boat was built in the mid 60s by Fairie.

I did a LOT of swimming doing singlhanding. Usually end up turtled. But that's no big deal on a 505 in relatively normal weather. I don't think the 505 makes much sense as a singlehander but it is one of those things you do when you have an insufferable need to go sailing and try something tricky. Like you, I have on both my old boat and my current, center boom sheeting. Singlhanding with end boom would be a ROYAL PITA.

Last time I was doing it I happened to capsize under spinnaker and turtle just as about 3 cruising boats coming in from Thurs night race came by. They all offered assistance and seemed alarmed but I told them thank you! and I righted and continued on my way unassisted. "Crazy 505 guys" I'm sure they thought haha!

I will say that sailing my canoe in waves and 20 knots is more exhausting and difficult than any other sailing I've done--including singlhanding the 505. Then again I've never singlehanded a 505 in 20 knots in waves!  I HAVE however sailed in a gusty 20 knot breeze with no rudder, upwind. Yes, it can be done!! I was helming with a light crew (my wife) and she was a trooper, going in and out on the wire, trimming the jib, keeping level and balanced.

 

 

 

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That's an interesting account. I'm too small to be sure of recovering a big boat from full inversion, so I use a masthead float, and I don't go out alone in more than Force 3.

I asked here a long time ago, exactly how much difference trapezing makes over hiking. Replies varied, but suggested about a 70% advantage. I've wondered whether big two-handed boats could be made much easier for singlehanders, by adding a short padded 'rack' that lets the trapeze artist stand an extra ten inches out from the centreline. I may try it this year.

Sailing with no rudder...I've seen a YouTube vid of a top Italian Contender sailor doing it on a lake, but even if the sails balance perfectly with the resistance of the board, I reckon short irregular waves in a breeze must make it very tough. Out of curiosity...you sailed in 20 knots with no rudder...you were helming with your wife on the wire...how do you define 'helming', with no rudder?  

The guy below is having fun. Okay, it relies on light winds, but when it is light winds, who wants to be aboard the boat they can safely control in a force 6?

 

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1 hour ago, Even Stranger said:

 Out of curiosity...you sailed in 20 knots with no rudder...you were helming with your wife on the wire...how do you define 'helming', with no rudder?  

 

 

Sitting in the back working the main sheet... (the rudder blade was broken off at the waterline and the transom was cracked).

I was taught rudderless sailing as a kid--by reading Twiname. Then when I ran a junior fleet, I had everyone (well most everyone) do a rudderless effort in the Optimist.

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9 hours ago, fastyacht said:

Sitting in the back working the main sheet... (the rudder blade was broken off at the waterline and the transom was cracked).

I was taught rudderless sailing as a kid--by reading Twiname. Then when I ran a junior fleet, I had everyone (well most everyone) do a rudderless effort in the Optimist.

The Oppy rudder is huge. It makes a very effective brake, especially since it can turn 90 degrees... One of the key skills kids have to learn in the boat is how not to use it... a lesson learned at six years old that they can use for the rest of their sailing career...

 The ideal starter boat: very easy to sail but very hard to sail well...

Cheers,

              W.

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