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Michigan made >50 person gatherings illegal but exempted religious services.  I was thinking it was a great way to ensure that all the devout thumpers get the sacrament of the covid.

Warren Buffett says that the stock market is the transference of money from the impatient to patient.  It will be interesting to see if he is right this time.  He may be.

I'll bite. A quick survey of the dates of administration press conferences, and the fall of stock prices show a direct correlation.  When administration press conferences were few and far be

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1 minute ago, Laker said:

The President controls a heck of a lot more money than any of us.

Is that your case that Trump fucked up the stock market?  Not a very good case at all.  

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2 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

JZK, do you understand why a stock falls in price?  it seems that you may not.

Do you know how to make a case for something?  Based on previous conversations, it seems that you may not.

How did Trump fuck the stock market?

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6 minutes ago, jzk said:

Do you know how to make a case for something?  Based on previous conversations, it seems that you may not.

How did Trump fuck the stock market?

Anyone who believes there is no such thing as a stupid question hasn't bothered reading jzk.

as Eva Dent

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3 minutes ago, jzk said:

 

How did Trump fuck the stock market?

Again, you seem to think 'the stock market' is a living creature or you like to create straw men.

The non-straw man question is "why did so many equity holders decide to sell their shares immediately after hearing Trump speak so many times?" 

The related questions are "Why did Trump suddenly move his corona press conference times to noonish from the previous just-before-the-close spot?  Did it have anything with the thousand-point drop during his last 330 press conference? "

The answer to what you meant to ask is in there.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Again, you seem to think 'the stock market' is a living creature or you like to create straw men.

The non-straw man question is "why did so many equity holders decide to sell their shares immediately after hearing Trump speak so many times?" 

The related questions are "Why did Trump suddenly move his corona press conference times to noonish from the previous just-before-the-close spot?  Did it have anything with the thousand-point drop during his last 330 press conference? "

The answer to what you meant to ask is in there.

 

 

That is your case for Trump fucking the stock market?  

About is good as your previous attempts at legal analysis.

Trump is bloviating right now about how great he is.  Is it what we want from a President?  There is a good case that we would be better off without it.  But would the stock market not be fucked?  Hardly.

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3 minutes ago, jzk said:

 

Trump is bloviating right now about how great he is.  Is it what we want from a President?  

It seems that is precisely what you want, along with the Trump stock market and the Trump coronavirus.

I want to thank you for your service in doing what the democratic party could never do: ending the reign of the GOP.  Cheers to you and all your kind.

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1 minute ago, MR.CLEAN said:

It seems that is precisely what you want, along with the Trump stock market and the Trump coronavirus.

I want to thank you for your service in doing what the democratic party could never do: ending the reign of the GOP.  Cheers to you and all your kind.

Is that your way of saying that you can make no case for the premise that Trump fucked the stock market?

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4 minutes ago, jzk said:

That is your case for Trump fucking the stock market?  

About is good as your previous attempts at legal analysis.

Trump is bloviating right now about how great he is.  Is it what we want from a President?  There is a good case that we would be better off without it.  But would the stock market not be fucked?  Hardly.

Predictability and confidence.  Covid19 fucked up the first, trump fucked up the second. 

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Just now, jzk said:

Is that your way of saying that you can make no case for the premise that Trump fucked the stock market?

  i don't bother 'making cases' to folks like you.  i just thank you for your service.

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Just now, roundthebuoys said:

Predictability and confidence.  Covid19 fucked up the first, trump fucked up the second. 

Not much of a case.  The stock market is temporarily fucked due to the mass hysteria over the virus.  

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1 minute ago, MR.CLEAN said:

  i don't bother 'making cases' to folks like you.  i just thank you for your service.

Must be a bunch of folks like me here because it seems you can't make a case for much of anything on this forum.  

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2 minutes ago, jzk said:

Must be a bunch of folks like me here because it seems you can't make a case for much of anything on this forum.  

must be tons.  Please don't go out and catch the virus.  please focus on downplaying it for the next few weeks. Or at least until you are wearing a plastic water bottle on your head.

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41 minutes ago, Keith said:

Are you too stupid to watch how the markets move in real time, as your President speaks.

Rhetorical question I presume?

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Just now, jzk said:

Not much of a case.  The stock market is temporarily fucked due to the mass hysteria over the virus.  

It answers your question perfectly. "How did Trump fuck up the stock market".  The virus fucked up the stock market, Trump exacerbated it.  He isn't 100% to blame by any means, but the virus and him in concert created the lack of predictability and confidence.  There's no hysteria, other than on TV.  My town is getting crushed.  No one is hysterical but we're doing what's right and it's killing us.  Change the channel.

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Just now, MR.CLEAN said:

must be tons.  Please don't go out and catch the virus.  please focus on downplaying it for the next few weeks. 

I asked a simple question.  How did Trump fuck the stock market.  No one has yet made any case for such.  

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Just now, roundthebuoys said:

It answers your question perfectly. "How did Trump fuck up the stock market".  The virus fucked up the stock market, Trump exacerbated it.  He isn't 100% to blame by any means, but the virus and him in concert created the lack of predictability and confidence.  There's no hysteria, other than on TV.  My town is getting crushed.  No one is hysterical but we're doing what's right and it's killing us.  Change the channel.

If your town is doing what is right and you are getting crushed, then what does Trump have to do with it?  Certainly Trump's words play into very short term swings because the market is always hanging on such things.  But there is very little evidence, and certainly no case made here today, that Trump's words contributed to the stock market being fucked in any significant way.  

 

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8 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

i would like you to keep focusing on the awfulness of the panic and downplaying the virus, and the more public your pleas, the better.  Can you continue helping please?

What evidence do you have that i am focusing on the awfulness of the panic and that I am downplaying the virus?

Or is it just when you are full of shit and can't make a case for something, you just start making up other shit?

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Just now, jzk said:

If your town is doing what is right and you are getting crushed, then what does Trump have to do with it?  Certainly Trump's words play into very short term swings because the market is always hanging on such things.  But there is very little evidence, and certainly no case made here today, that Trump's words contributed to the stock market being fucked in any significant way.  

 

His response from day 1 has not inspired a drip of confidence.  As Eva Dent by the DJIA.  Maybe you personally are fine, but obviously the Street and millions of others don't feel confident.  They are not ALL wrong are they?  Do you think the decision makers from the major three airlines, NBA, NHL, MLB, et al. watch TV to make billion dollar losing decisions?

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1 minute ago, roundthebuoys said:

His response from day 1 has not inspired a drip of confidence.  As Eva Dent by the DJIA.  Maybe you personally are fine, but obviously the Street and millions of others don't feel confident.  They are not ALL wrong are they?  Do you think the decision makers from the major three airlines, NBA, NHL, MLB, et al. watch TV to make billion dollar losing decisions?

People don't feel confident because they are panicking over the virus that is spreading throughout our country.  We can debate the appropriateness of Trump's words, but there is little evidence, and none presented here, that it has much to do with the stock market being fucked.

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10 minutes ago, jzk said:

I asked a simple question.  How did Trump fuck the stock market.  No one has yet made any case for such.  

that's no fun.  what's fun is watching you squirm as the world burns.

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1 minute ago, jzk said:

People don't feel confident because they are panicking over the virus that is spreading throughout our country.  We can debate the appropriateness of Trump's words, but there is little evidence, and none presented here, that it has much to do with the stock market being fucked.

Who is panicking?  We're doing what we are being asked to do from guidance of our Feds, Governors, mayors, etc.  Are they panicking?  If it helps, I live in the reddest of red states.  And you changed the subject, I never said Trump's words affect my town.  We were talking about the stock market.  And the evidence you seek is the 10,000 point drop in DJIA. What part Trump has in that is not quantifiable, it doesn't mean he has NO part in it.  You're asking for data that doesn't exist, but there' is evidence. (DJIA).  Show me data that says he has NO part of it then.

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Just now, roundthebuoys said:

Who is panicking?  We're doing what we are being asked to do from guidance of our Feds, Governors, mayors, etc.  Are they panicking?  If it helps, I live in the reddest of red states.  And you changed the subject, I never said Trump's words affect my town.  We were talking about the stock market.  And the evidence you seek is the 10,000 point drop in DJIA. What part Trump has in that is not quantifiable, it doesn't mean he has NO part in it.  You're asking for data that doesn't exist, but there' is evidence. (DJIA).  Show me data that says he has NO part of it then.

Are you for real?  The people buying the toilet paper?

The position was that Trump fucked the stock market.  I asked how he fucked the stock market, and no one has made any case for such.

The stock market is fucked over panic.  Maybe you aren't panicking, but plenty are.  

Why are you taking guidance from government officials?  Do they have any special training or knowledge regarding this virus?

Are you in a high risk group?

 

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I made the downpayment for my next house by playing a couple of housing-related stocks that still permitted short sales last week.  I would like Trump giving all the press conferences for the next few weeks and JZK to continue to provide the analysis.

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2 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Nope, but I made the downpayment for my next house by playing a couple of housing-related stocks that still permitted short sales last week.  I would like Trump giving all the press conferences for the next few weeks and JZK to continue to provide the analysis.

Doesn't sound like much of a case for anything.  But I guess that is to be expected.  

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Just now, MR.CLEAN said:

As long as you continue to focus on everything except the disease and the federal governments response to it, we're good.  I thank you and all of your kind.

Your well being depends on me?  Who knew.  It would really suck if my well being depended upon members of this forum.  

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2 minutes ago, jzk said:

Are you for real?  The people buying the toilet paper?

The position was that Trump fucked the stock market.  I asked how he fucked the stock market, and no one has made any case for such.

The stock market is fucked over panic.  Maybe you aren't panicking, but plenty are.  

Why are you taking guidance from government officials?  Do they have any special training or knowledge regarding this virus?

Are you in a high risk group?

 

Fuck it.  You do you.

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6 minutes ago, jzk said:

Clean still hasn't made a case for anything.  

Facts do not need to have a case made for them. They just are. All sophisticated investors know for a fact that the president can jawbone markets up and down. Even unsophisticated yet experienced investors know that. These investors also know that it is not the president's actual words that move the market. They are trading on the knock-on effect of how other investors will behave in the market when hearing the words. Bets on future outcomes. Even microseconds in the future.

Trump is the president.

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Just now, El Boracho said:

Facts do not need to have a case made for them. They just are. All sophisticated investors know for a fact that the president can jawbone markets up and down. Even unsophisticated yet experienced investors know that. These investors also know that it is not the president's actual words that move the market. They are trading on the knock-on effect of how other investors will behave in the market when hearing the words. Bets on future outcomes. Even microseconds in the future.

Trump is the president.

Someone made the statement that Trump fucked the stock market.  Not that Trump influenced the stock market.  Not that Trump jawboned the market up and down.  He fucked it.  I asked how he fucked it.  No one, including you, seems to be able to make the case for such.  And no problem.  Not many cases made on this forum anyway.

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3 minutes ago, jzk said:

Your well being depends on me?  Who knew.  It would really suck if my well being depended upon members of this forum.  

My well being depends on me and my family.  My ability to get a decent windfall from my real estate knowledge depends on unjustifiable optimism that 'it isn't that bad' from folks who give me the upticks I need.  Folks like you, or folks who listen to folks like you.

 

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Just now, jzk said:

Someone made the statement that Trump fucked the stock market.  Not that Trump influenced the stock market.  Not that Trump jawboned the market up and down.  He fucked it.  I asked how he fucked it.  No one, including you, seems to be able to make the case for such.  And no problem.  Not many cases made on this forum anyway.

Doggy stylin' 101.  Try not to infect anyone else.

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The virus was the tipping point - record deficits, tax cuts for business that only led to stock buybacks (propping up prices) continually lowered interest rates etc. artificially continued the market increases. It's like 2008 never happened.  So there never was a correction and now thanks in part to the previous welcome to the depression.

And before you ask why was this done? Because the market was Trump's big bragging point knowing that as long as it appeared he was Making America Great Again he would be elected again.

Trump's desk should have a plaque

The Buck Drops Here

You're Welcome

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3 minutes ago, jzk said:

Someone made the statement that Trump fucked the stock market.  Not that Trump influenced the stock market.  Not that Trump jawboned the market up and down.  He fucked it.  I asked how he fucked it.  No one, including you, seems to be able to make the case for such.  And no problem.  Not many cases made on this forum anyway.

I'll bite.

A quick survey of the dates of administration press conferences, and the fall of stock prices show a direct correlation. 

When administration press conferences were few and far between, record stock prices.

Administration press conferences common, stocks freefall.

 A halt on all whitehouse communications  might have saved your portfolio...

 

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16 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

I made the downpayment for my next house by playing a couple of housing-related stocks that still permitted short sales last week.  I would like Trump giving all the press conferences for the next few weeks and JZK to continue to provide the analysis.

That's fantastic! Congratulations!
Which stocks?  Most have been crashing for a month.  

 

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1 hour ago, jzk said:

Is that your case that Trump fucked up the stock market?  Not a very good case at all.  

Dogs wag tails.  Tails do not wag dogs. Signalling is a very important process in the stock market.  Trump has not done a good job at this by any means.  Remember on another forum a discussion of Henry II of England having an off hand remark of "Will no one rid me of this troublesome priest".  Shows the effect of offhand remarks in the hand of a dictator.

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4 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Talking point for the day: "Debate the meaning of 'fucked'"

Gettin pretty thin on the ground

Trump fucking with the stock market is closely related the @jzk jerking off with this forum.

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3 minutes ago, Cristoforo said:

That's fantastic! Congratulations!
Which stocks?  Most have been crashing for a month.  

 

Pretty much every real estate stock I could find with an uptick.  Have some cash laying around for next house.  Closing all positions end of each day.

 

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36 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

JZK still thinks that guys with 200B under management make trades based on 'panic'.

If the guys with 200B under management were so smart, then there would be more Warren Buffets out there.  

I will say they are smart enough to collect huge salaries while playing with OPM.  

 

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21 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

My well being depends on me and my family.  My ability to get a decent windfall from my real estate knowledge depends on unjustifiable optimism that 'it isn't that bad' from folks who give me the upticks I need.  Folks like you, or folks who listen to folks like you.

 

So in response to the question "How did Trump fuck the stock market," you come in here and tell everyone how you are making a killing over this tragedy?

That is great!  Not only are you a forum dipshit, but a great guy to boot.  

Are you making money by providing the public with desired goods and services?  Or just capitalizing on fear and panic?

You just can't make this shit up.  

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4 minutes ago, jzk said:

 

Are you making money by providing the public with desired goods and services?  Or just capitalizing on fear and panic?

 

I'm just following the lead of the senators, and no, the downpayment on the new house is not 'a killing'.  you are the weird fuck who chooses to use words like that during a pandemic.  

 

 

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1 minute ago, MR.CLEAN said:

I'm just following the lead of the senators, and no, the downpayment on the new house is not 'a killing'.  you are the weird fuck who chooses to use words like that during a pandemic.  

 

 

The Senators are not here talking about how much money they are making.

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2 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

I'm just following the lead of the senators, and no, the downpayment on the new house is not 'a killing'.  you are the weird fuck who chooses to use words like that during a pandemic.  

 

 

To the average American, a downpayment on a house procured during the evolution of this virus outbreak is "a killing."

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Just now, jzk said:

The Senators are not here talking about how much money they are making.

Brilliant observation.

And to think, people here think you are a useless dolt.

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2 minutes ago, jzk said:

The Senators are not here talking about how much money they are making.

 they'll be talking about it with the DOJ in 2021 when there's no pardon on the table and all their e-mails and phone records have been turned over to the Feds.

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2 minutes ago, jzk said:

To the average American, a downpayment on a house procured during the evolution of this virus outbreak is "a killing."

what's an average american?  are you concerned with their plight?

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29 minutes ago, Laker said:

Dogs wag tails.  Tails do not wag dogs. Signalling is a very important process in the stock market.  Trump has not done a good job at this by any means.  Remember on another forum a discussion of Henry II of England having an off hand remark of "Will no one rid me of this troublesome priest".  Shows the effect of offhand remarks in the hand of a dictator.

Trump's remarks are petty and childish buffoonary, for the most part.   But "fucked the stock market?"  I don't think so.  

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did they effect the stock market?  If so, what portion of the 30 % drop from highs is due to Trump's failure to prepare and what portion is from his semi-literate public comments?  Do you need some charts for your analysis?

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1 hour ago, jzk said:

Someone said that Trump fucked the stock market.  I asked how so, and this is what I got.  Kinda lame, no?

The stock market would have tanked with or without competent leadership. It’s a matter of degree. 
The market responded to the reality on the ground which is a lot closer to the red bit than the blue bit. 

D7360548-73D6-45EB-829C-964B1273F551.png

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1 hour ago, jzk said:

Trump's remarks are petty and childish buffoonary, for the most part.   But "fucked the stock market?"  I don't think so.  

Like Clean said.  Now we're arguing over the word "fucked". How about exacerbated?  Did the childish buffoonery affect the stock market in a positive or negative way? 

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1 hour ago, jzk said:

Trump's remarks are petty and childish buffoonary, for the most part.   But "fucked the stock market?"  I don't think so.  

While It would have gone down regardless of who the president was, Trumps daily  statements definitely make it (he’s not done yet) faster and worse.  Every time he speaks.  He never had to say ‘July - August’ for example.

But the main reason is Wall Street now knows he has been lying to them on this issue. Wether it’s a big issue or a small one, he cant be trusted.  Every time he lies and Fauci has to spend the next 12 hours correcting him, they wonder what else is he hiding, and is it worse than he is is saying.  Because he is being proven wrong daily. There are two many examples to list and others already have  

saying ‘What the hell do we have  to lose?’  about a completely unproven drug treatment is something you say when you have lost all hope and are throwing up a Hail Mary  

the man is a fool and no doubt he’s made it worse.  Just as much as his deregulation blather made it better on the way up.

November is a long way off and it’s quite possible a rebound will be well on the way by then, and he won’t be going anywhere, especially with the completion he has. 

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3 hours ago, jzk said:

How did he fuck it up?

Really? There’s no point in pointing out his lack of leadership in being proactive, in fact actively delaying the govt response. Criminal if it was so fucking incompetent.

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The price of a stock is the integral over time of all its adjusted return via dividends over its life.  Finance 101.  It is hard to hold a good stock down if it returns dividends.  We will see which companies are real next dividend cycle.  The issue will be what happens to those companies that cannot survive?  Low level energy companies are a good candidate.  The startups that do not declare dividends are another.  Will this be the end of a neo-liberal approach to American economics.  I think that it will be modified in the least. There is a question whether capital can survive a hiatus of return.  Can the landlord (or other debtholder) actually expect the payback of 6 months of lost rent in the post-nova economy? 0% FED tends to do things like that.

 

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2 hours ago, jzk said:

Trump's remarks are petty and childish buffoonary, for the most part.   But "fucked the stock market?"  I don't think so.  

Tell that to Thomas A' Beckett.  And your analysis, which is contrary to most of the stuff I have been reading, is based on what?  There has been a lot of systems dynamics work done on the nova problem in terms of the economy.  At the moment we are definitely in an underdamped situation.  In other words, out of control.  As with all systems, they can drop and if properly, under control.  Parachutes do wonders to control an underdamped fall from an airplane.  The President has had a lot of chances to add a bit of control.  He has failed miserably, therefore, fucked up.  Have him look at some of the other constituencies that are reacting well to a Bretton Woods effect on their economy.  The US dollar controls the commercial world.  Otherwise there would be no effect by US sanctions on places like Iran.

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1 hour ago, Laker said:

Tell that to Thomas A' Beckett.  And your analysis, which is contrary to most of the stuff I have been reading, is based on what?  There has been a lot of systems dynamics work done on the nova problem in terms of the economy.  At the moment we are definitely in an underdamped situation.  In other words, out of control.  As with all systems, they can drop and if properly, under control.  Parachutes do wonders to control an underdamped fall from an airplane.  The President has had a lot of chances to add a bit of control.  He has failed miserably, therefore, fucked up.  Have him look at some of the other constituencies that are reacting well to a Bretton Woods effect on their economy.  The US dollar controls the commercial world.  Otherwise there would be no effect by US sanctions on places like Iran.

Jerkie still buys into the perfect info/ Rational Expectations BS from Chicago.

the short term market is the absolute opposite of the basic required conditions of that economic theory.

perfect info? Then why were senators selling before anyone else? Rational? Are herds rational?

poor Jerkoff.

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3 hours ago, jzk said:

Trump's remarks are petty and childish buffoonary, for the most part.   But "fucked the stock market?"  I don't think so.  

I've already explained to the reason why he f'd the market up, quickly, low interest rates , REPRO $$', QE $$, and more. all the things Obama did in the great recession, thought he hate the O man so why is he using it since elected?

But the bottom line is H.S. Turman said "The buck stops here" , where as Drump plays pass the buck, It's everyone else fault, well if  that's true what do we need him for?          He and is intel knew it was happening late 2019?

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8 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Jerkie still buys into the perfect info/ Rational Expectations BS from Chicago.

the short term market is the absolute opposite of the basic required conditions of that economic theory.

perfect info? Then why were senators selling before anyone else? Rational? Are herds rational?

poor Jerkoff.

He probably also thinks that wealthy people have money due to their hard work and intelligence.  

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1 hour ago, SloopJonB said:

He is?

You think someone that clueless could amass significant wealth?

It's been known to happen. Generally they lose it all though, and if they don't then their kids give all to lawyers fighting each other before they OD.

- DSK

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Is this thing by design?

In florida 99% of the service industry was shut down last night, rstuarants, bars, beaches, at a weird hour 1700 , ( 5 pm ) in the middle of happy hours , people ordering meals, wtf. Why not do it at the end of the day /normal closing hours and then not reopen in the AM, I think it was to point out we're ( the government ) is in control. The other interesting fact was bars/restuarants closed , but Gun stores were open , with lines down the streeets, and no safe distance between people, weird or is it me? You would think in time of crisis they would be the first to shut their doors? So lets see we have first time gun owners at home , with no sports, no TP, with plenty of booze , wife /kids yelling and screaming and no money !Can't wait to see the death rate on that, ( most people that shoot some one knows that person)

I also think Drump's days are numbered , for a couple reasons , this not what he signed up for. he see's the writing on the wall about his fake economy, the stock market falling to nothing, or maybe just a nervous break down, .. or the Central Banks don't have any more use for him, and cut his puppet strings.

we are a nation of debt and now with more unemployment it will get much worst Are the Central banks going to come out with a new fiat currency? your dollars may be useless with a negative interest rate?

Drump done 4/23/20

 

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Michigan made >50 person gatherings illegal but exempted religious services.  I was thinking it was a great way to ensure that all the devout thumpers get the sacrament of the covid.

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3 hours ago, garuda3 said:

Gun stores were open , with lines down the streeets, and no safe distance between people, weird or is it me?

Nope - it's Darwin stepping up to the plate.

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2 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Michigan made >50 person gatherings illegal but exempted religious services.  I was thinking it was a great way to ensure that all the devout thumpers get the sacrament of the covid.

They should all take communion for sure.

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16 hours ago, garuda3 said:

I've already explained to the reason why he f'd the market up, quickly, low interest rates , REPRO $$', QE $$, and more. all the things Obama did in the great recession, thought he hate the O man so why is he using it since elected?

But the bottom line is H.S. Turman said "The buck stops here" , where as Drump plays pass the buck, It's everyone else fault, well if  that's true what do we need him for?          He and is intel knew it was happening late 2019?

Do you really want the President of the United States managing the stock market?  The President is the head of the executive branch of government, not the economy.  The less the President has to do with the economy, the better.  

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14 minutes ago, jzk said:

Do you really want the President of the United States managing the stock market?  The President is the head of the executive branch of government, not the economy.  The less the President has to do with the economy, the better.  

Agreed.

This is why the Federal Reserve was originally established as seperated from political influence. Almost every President since then has tried to control it so they can manipulate the economy to help them (or their buddies) get elected. This invariably leads to economic harm to the country.

- DSK

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12 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Michigan made >50 person gatherings illegal but exempted religious services.  I was thinking it was a great way to ensure that all the devout thumpers get the sacrament of the covid.

You think it is great that people get the virus, especially those with whom you disagree politically and philosophically?  

I was right.  You really are a great guy.

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“A great way to get the virus”. RIF, counselor.

Whitmer claimed on meet the press that she could not restrict religious gatherings because church/state.  She is either lying or very poorly advised.

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