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1 hour ago, mikewof said:

I had a blast with my old man. He insisted that he wanted to stay in long-term care, but I think he just didn't want to be a burden. Once he came home, we drank pretty much every night, smoked weed together, talked engineering. It was difficult, but worth it. Ultimately, my own inexperienced and shitty care contributed to his early demise at the age of 94, but it was a fun ride. And I took care of the stage IV bedsores he acquired in the joint. The VA nurses trained me in that, one of the nurses told me I'm now an expert in stage IV wound care. So if anyone needs some unprofessional guidance, ask away.

I don't know how it's going to work with my mom, I think it might be hard for me to take care of her personal needs the way I did with my dad. Needs to be my sisters, but they live too far away.

I have news for you.  She's you mother.  She changed your dirty diapers, she wiped your dirty ass, she wiped your nose, she sopped up your puke.  And you are squeamish about giving her a bath or wiping her ass after all she has done for you?  She would do the same for you as an adult if she was capable and if it was necessary.

There is a statue on Tokyo's famed Gina of a man carrying his mother on his back up Mt Fuji.  The poem says something to the effect that that burden is nothing compared to the burden that his mother undertook raising him, but it was the least he could do for her in return.

Before I ever worked in the medical field, and got used to just about everything and then some, I helped to care for my 60 year old mother while she died from a malignant brain tumor.  I was 30 at the time. I changed her depends, I wiped her ass.  I gave her sponge baths.  At first I wan't real comfortable about it, but like the Japanese man, it was the least I could after all of the love she gave me, and all that she did for me.

HTFU, Mike, she's your mother.

2 hours ago, mikewof said:

Projection.

I know my age, and I have a pretty good feeling about how many years I have left on this rock. I doubt I'll live to be as old as my dad, I enjoy the dangerous and unhealthy parts of my life too much. I'll be dead soon enough, and I don't intend to make anyone else's lives miserable due to the impending blackness.

Sure Mike, lots of people say that.  Unless you carefully plan your suicide, and even then there is no guarantee, you never know how you will die.  You might be like that poor bastard in Dalton Trumbo's classic Johnny Got His Gun.  You know, that guy from the Metallica song One.  Lying in the hospital bed, unable to move, to see, to talk, yet still completely conscious and aware of what was going on and nothing he could do about it.  Or you might be one of the lucky ones and die painlessly in your sleep and not trouble anyone.  But keep in mind, we don't always get the death we want, we get the death we get.

 

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BTW, I gave Mikey a time out, which will be the same response anyone gets for calling the coronavirus response measures 'hysteria' or peddling misinformation that could hurt someone.

I'm day 9 of symptoms and still in the middle if it. Let me tell you,  getting a viral load from convience store handle much less than getting it from being in a maskless patients face coughing on you

It is not whether it offends, it is whether it is dangerous. Spreading false information about the dangers of a pandemic can kill people. Most forums have a ratio of between 10 and 100 lurkers to ever

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4 hours ago, mikewof said:

Projection.

I know my age, and I have a pretty good feeling about how many years I have left on this rock. I doubt I'll live to be as old as my dad, I enjoy the dangerous and unhealthy parts of my life too much. I'll be dead soon enough, and I don't intend to make anyone else's lives miserable due to the impending blackness.

Impending blackness? I thought it was all silent night and raindrops on roses, Small children playing on sleds and kindly old men roasting chestnuts?

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58 minutes ago, Cristoforo said:

Stories about people that get better don’t sell books or generate hits 

I apologize if it offends, but Trump declaring today that if you felt just fine, everything was ok really pissed me off.  That and Bill Barr standing there, cheek by jowl looking like he’d just received wisdom from Jesus himself was not to be borne.  Meanwhile, Ivanka separated herself by 10 feet, looking frightened.

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54 minutes ago, Cristoforo said:

God bless you Chessie. Very Pence-like of you!

I ‘have a friend’ who drove by the Covd-19 Drive thru testing facility in New Rochelle NY where they are using the National Guard to help out with logistics and traffic control. They have ‘armored’  Humvees and big green trucks like they use in Louisiana to pluck out flood victims.  A friend might confuse them for tanks  

actually you can see it all from the highway.  

Nobody alerted anyone  

Nobody said tanks were being deployed  

dont worry We are not yet Tianemen Square  Mr Cleans Chinese invasion hasn’t happened yet.  

Oh  btw I almost forgot.   I was talking to a friend in FEMA who said everything is cool   

 

 

 

 

 

Was his name "Brownie" by any chance?

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52 minutes ago, Cristoforo said:

God bless you Chessie. Very Pence-like of you!

I ‘have a friend’ who drove by the Covd-19 Drive thru testing facility in New Rochelle NY where they are using the National Guard to help out with logistics and traffic control. They have ‘armored’  Humvees and big green trucks like they use in Louisiana to pluck out flood victims.  A friend might confuse them for tanks  

actually you can see it all from the highway.  

Nobody alerted anyone  

Nobody said tanks were being deployed  

dont worry We are not yet Tianemen Square  Mr Cleans Chinese invasion hasn’t happened yet.  

Oh  btw I almost forgot.   I was talking to a friend in FEMA who said everything is cool   

 

 

 

 

 

I dont doubt for a minute that Clean's friend saw railroad cars offloading tanks at Selfridge.  The larger point is that that's normal - they go thru there on their way to the units. The only contention is in thinking that the tanks' presence indicates sinister intent. 

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35 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

I dont doubt for a minute that Clean's friend saw railroad cars offloading tanks at Selfridge.  The larger point is that that's normal - they go thru there on their way to the units. The only contention is in thinking that the tanks' presence indicates sinister intent. 

Not necessarily sinister. But I thin crowd control must be on governors minds right now and if you wait til your forces are at the hospital it’s too late

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Just now, MR.CLEAN said:

Not necessarily sinister. But I thin crowd control must be on governors minds right now and if you wait til your forces are at the hospital it’s too late

Think that thru brudda - tanks dont do crowd control. Troops do. Where do ya think "crowd control" would be most necessary? It ain't Motor City or anywhere close to it.  Tanks go thru Selfridge for inspection and provisioning prior to being assigned to units, it's not unusual for them to be there.  

There are other things to be concerned about, I really dont think this is one of em.

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FWIW, any governor that's is NOT beefing up the crowd control capability in their state is foolish.

Last week, we were told we shouldn't eat anything with corn syrup.  Some people complied.

This week, they're taking corn syrup foods off most shelves.  More people complied.

If next week, they say you can't eat anything with sugar in it, frustrations will start to boil over.

 

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11 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

So, are you seeing a repeat of Kent State, or guard troops protecting citizens?  

The only folks that I think need to be afraid are those with nefarious intent, or those who buy in to a false narrative that military == bad.

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1 minute ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

So, are you seeing a repeat of Kent State, or guard troops protecting citizens?  

The only folks that I think need to be afraid are those with nefarious intent, or those who buy in to a false narrative that military == bad.

Same reason we don't need the 5th amendment...

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9 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

The only folks that I think need to be afraid are those with nefarious intent.

What did YOU mean?

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1 minute ago, Raz'r said:

What did YOU mean?

Fair 'nuff.  I meant that our guard troops are disciplined, local people who are going to abide by their ROE. As long as someone doesnt present themselves as a threat?  They will be left alone to do what they want. 

None of our troops *wants* to hurt anyone, especially one of our own. 

BUT - If someone starts shooting at em, or encouraging other to do so? Then that individual's behavior has warranted a different response.  

Does that answer your question, sir? 

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2 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Fair 'nuff.  I meant that our guard troops are disciplined, local people who are going to abide by their ROE. As long as someone doesnt present themselves as a threat?  They will be left alone to do what they want. 

None of our troops *wants* to hurt anyone, especially one of our own. 

BUT - If someone starts shooting at em, or encouraging other to do so? Then that individual's behavior has warranted a different response.  

Does that answer your question, sir? 

You sound a bit irritated, Guy..... Are you suggesting that like in the KENT STATE U. situation, that National gaurd units should fire upon peaceful protesters?

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2 minutes ago, Mrleft8 said:

You sound a bit irritated, Guy..... Are you suggesting that like in the KENT STATE U. situation, that National gaurd units should fire upon peaceful protesters?

I'm suggesting that you oughta read what I wrote, and respond to THAT. if ya want instead to respond to your own projection? Dont expect a considerate reply.  Cool? 

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5 minutes ago, Mrleft8 said:
10 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Fair 'nuff.  I meant that our guard troops are disciplined, local people who are going to abide by their ROE. As long as someone doesnt present themselves as a threat?  They will be left alone to do what they want. 

None of our troops *wants* to hurt anyone, especially one of our own. 

BUT - If someone starts shooting at em, or encouraging other to do so? Then that individual's behavior has warranted a different response.  

Does that answer your question, sir? 

You sound a bit irritated, Guy..... Are you suggesting that like in the KENT STATE U. situation, that National gaurd units should fire upon peaceful protesters?

No, he's not.

But I am now suggesting your reading skills are inadequate. You are just playing "GOTCHA" with Chessy, and demanding he play along.

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24 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Fair 'nuff.  I meant that our guard troops are disciplined, local people who are going to abide by their ROE. As long as someone doesnt present themselves as a threat?  They will be left alone to do what they want. 

None of our troops *wants* to hurt anyone, especially one of our own. 

BUT - If someone starts shooting at em, or encouraging other to do so? Then that individual's behavior has warranted a different response.  

Does that answer your question, sir? 

And I would say that the vast majority of the police and FBI are well trained, do their duty by the letter of the law types. But we still have a 5th and it turns out to be quite needed. 
 

I would never say to any citizen “if you aren’t a criminal, you have nothing to worry about.” 

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5 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

And I would say that the vast majority of the police and FBI are well trained, do their duty by the letter of the law types. But we still have a 5th and it turns out to be quite needed. 
 

I would never say to any citizen “if you aren’t a criminal, you have nothing to worry about.” 

Help me understand, please, how ya construed what I said to mean anything.like that?  lts late, I'm beat waking up at 02:00, but I'm really not getting this. 

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Just now, Cristoforo said:

Duh 

What is your intent? Honest discussion  or berating everyone you think disagrees with you? 

We may share some perspectives, but I'm not interested in diminishing anyone because we disagree.  If they act like an ass? ( Cue AJ, Jiblets, 3 in 1, BJ) That's different. 

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1 minute ago, Cristoforo said:

People should be big enough to admit when they are wrong when they are, or bullshitting, and/or not spread fear and panic. Doesn’t help anyone or anything  

 

Accepted. I don't think Clean is BSing here.  ( If I'm wrong and he doesnt say so? I'll kick his ass) .  

Point? Asking  questions instead of pushing projections usually works better. 

You do you - I'm good. 

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1 hour ago, Raz'r said:

The only folks that I think need to be afraid are those with nefarious intent, 

This, sounds a lot like “if you are a criminal, you have nothing to fear”

I'm not so casual about calling out the Nat Guard. Is it necessary? Sounds like it might be, but that doesn’t mean it shouldn’t concern all of us.

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3 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

I think Martial law is a possibility if they want the military to play an active role.  We don't.

The Posse Comitatus Act  needs to be considered and an act of congress to allow military operations for things normally assigned to civil government.

Article One, Section 9, clause 2, of the big C sez:

The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it.

I don't think anyone is rebelling and despite your boy Shitstain's labeling COVID the Chinese virus, no, we're not getting invaded.

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I'm thinking that Tom and the Reich are girding their loins and weaponizing themselves up even more than they are already. 

How about it Tom, what firearms & ammo did you score today? 

Whoaaaaa - now I'm even scaring myself !!

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44 minutes ago, Cristoforo said:

People should be big enough to admit when they are wrong when they are, or bullshitting, and/or not spread fear and panic. Doesn’t help anyone or anything  

 

I know that's the bullet point of the day for you now that the "it's just a nasty flu" is used up.  Whatcha got for tomorrow?

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42 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Accepted. I don't think Clean is BSing here.  ( If I'm wrong and he doesnt say so? I'll kick his ass) .  

Point? Asking  questions instead of pushing projections usually works better. 

You do you - I'm good. 

thank you.  my intent is not to rile up the masses at all.  I forwarded that video to my family and two best friends and posted it here, because that covers pretty much all the people I'd miss.

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6 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

thank you.  my intent is not to rile up the masses at all.  I forwarded that video to my family and two best friends and posted it here, because that covers pretty much all the people I'd miss.

Awww! Love ya too, Clean :wub:

 

All joking aside, good luck, bitches!

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1 hour ago, Cristoforo said:

People should be big enough to admit when they are wrong when they are, or bullshitting, and/or not spread fear and panic. Doesn’t help anyone or anything  

 

That's Thursday's talking point.  Today's was "Let's not politicize this".  Are you sure you are still on the JV troll squad?  Or have you been kicked down to the practice squad.

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7 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

Impending blackness? I thought it was all silent night and raindrops on roses, Small children playing on sleds and kindly old men roasting chestnuts?

Apparently the Boomers do not consider death to be raindrops on roses. It's like they learned enough not to believe in heaven, but they stopped before they got to the whole secular humanism thing as something more than an abstract concept that they only exercise when they get on one of those Starbucks pay-it-forward drive--through lines where they pay for the lady's coffee behind them, and then consider this essentially meaningless act to be the purest expression of global humanity.

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3 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

I know that's the bullet point of the day for you now that the "it's just a nasty flu" is used up.  Whatcha got for tomorrow?

It's definitely not a "nasty flu."

The average monthly death toll from seasonal flu is about 3,500 deaths per month. It's not even in the same league as the flu, let alone a "nasty" flu. But maybe if keep this thing going without toilet paper, we might get a resurgence of typhus, and we can put those deaths in the COVDID-19 column.

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5 hours ago, cmilliken said:

FWIW, any governor that's is NOT beefing up the crowd control capability in their state is foolish.

Last week, we were told we shouldn't eat anything with corn syrup.  Some people complied.

This week, they're taking corn syrup foods off most shelves.  More people complied.

If next week, they say you can't eat anything with sugar in it, frustrations will start to boil over.

 

I must have missed this, what's the problem with corn syrup?

Does it not fit our current Austerity Package?

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6 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

I dont doubt for a minute that Clean's friend saw railroad cars offloading tanks at Selfridge.  The larger point is that that's normal - they go thru there on their way to the units. The only contention is in thinking that the tanks' presence indicates sinister intent. 

So you're suggesting that the tanks might be in the county, but they might be as harmless as any other commercial transport, and the real problem with that county might have not a whole lot to do with the tanks?

For some odd reason, this sounds kind of familiar, but I'm not sure why.

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9 hours ago, Ed Lada said:

I have news for you.  She's you mother.  She changed your dirty diapers, she wiped your dirty ass, she wiped your nose, she sopped up your puke.  And you are squeamish about giving her a bath or wiping her ass after all she has done for you?  She would do the same for you as an adult if she was capable and if it was necessary.

There is a statue on Tokyo's famed Gina of a man carrying his mother on his back up Mt Fuji.  The poem says something to the effect that that burden is nothing compared to the burden that his mother undertook raising him, but it was the least he could do for her in return.

Before I ever worked in the medical field, and got used to just about everything and then some, I helped to care for my 60 year old mother while she died from a malignant brain tumor.  I was 30 at the time. I changed her depends, I wiped her ass.  I gave her sponge baths.  At first I wan't real comfortable about it, but like the Japanese man, it was the least I could after all of the love she gave me, and all that she did for me.

HTFU, Mike, she's your mother.

Sure Mike, lots of people say that.  Unless you carefully plan your suicide, and even then there is no guarantee, you never know how you will die.  You might be like that poor bastard in Dalton Trumbo's classic Johnny Got His Gun.  You know, that guy from the Metallica song One.  Lying in the hospital bed, unable to move, to see, to talk, yet still completely conscious and aware of what was going on and nothing he could do about it.  Or you might be one of the lucky ones and die painlessly in your sleep and not trouble anyone.  But keep in mind, we don't always get the death we want, we get the death we get.

 

You're right, but there is definitely a gender issue that I didn't have with my dad. But thank you, it's a good way to look at it. Eventually they become like babies again, just odd kind of babies who can enrage their adult children with a word or two if they choose. Babies are easier than adults because they're portable, and their vocabulary really sucks for the purpose of getting under someone's skin.

Thanks for your words about your mom. I think I can get used to it too.

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My joke nearly came true today. I had two near-death experiences, one in slow motion, and one at 70 mph.

I did my chores today, get my sled up the mountains, get her unloaded and I'm screaming up the old mining trail, the engine starts losing power. I figured maybe I was overheating it, you can get really far into the backcountry on a sled in not much time, they're fast. My sled will pull 40 mph through the open terrain with barely a bit of thumb. I got further up the pass, and my sled was running really rough, I turn her around and head back. Then I couldn't get her started again.

I figured I would let Beatrice cool down a bit, I'm looking through my backpack, I notice I have an old copy of Viz Magazine behind my Polaris repair manual ...

20200320_173158.thumb.jpg.3c4d25a9f2fdff35329771da24f1f2f1.jpg

I read a little Viz, the engine cools down, I get her to start, but she's running rough, dies. Then I pull the rope again, it breaks. The clutch starter wouldn't get her going. So I figured I'll just replace the broken pull cord, I get the housing open, get it replaced, about 30-some minutes, darkness is about 90 minutes out at that point, I'm way the fuck in, dead quiet, though I can hear another sled somewhere in the distance. I pull it, I screwed up on the return coil spring lock. Then I disassemble it all try it again, getting colder and the wind is picking up, the realize the repair is too much and I decide to leave the sled up there, I guess about 9,000 feet or so. I figured it's better to have to come back for the sled than die of exposure once the night sets in and I can't find my way out. (Hurray for maturity and good decisions based on life experience!) Snow picks up more, I hoof it the best I can to cover the 40-some mph ground on foot. I'm scared. Viruses have nothing on this. I snap a photo of my poor love, alone, by the side of the trail, she's that sad little dot right in the center ...

20200320_182931.thumb.jpg.c74db451967ea0ebb4497275dcf6986b.jpg

I just keep walking, trying to take note of the silhouettes of the mountains, in case I have to navigate by moonlight. No cell signals, the GPS wouldn't lock in either, though I don't push that to conserve the battery just in case. I make decent time, get to about a mile from the trailhead, full darkness about 20 minutes away, a guy on a sled comes up from the other direction, gives me a ride to the trailhead. Death by exposure averted, I just have to get back up there asap in the morning, fix the sled and get her home. I get back to the truck, message from my sister, my mom's in the hospital, fell in her house and cut her eye, no other messages except that my cousin wants to leave the hospital because she's afraid of infection. Before I take off, I hear the guys next to me talking about a near major accident on the way up. That didn't make sense to me the roads seemed pretty dry on the way up. I'm driving back close to the speed limit so I can get my mom from the hospital and also pick up someone from the airport, then my son calls complaining about the lack of food in the house, "gotta deal with it, the shelves are mostly empty." Meanwhile, my truck is coming back without the ballast of the sled in the bed, I hit a little patch of slush, but something was weird with the road, it wasn't really ice, but the slush had a strange ability to clog the treads of the tires, it was just that perfect consistency. Before I know it, my truck is spin city, I spun around about three times, bouncing off the guardrail. I think to myself while spinning around, "this must have been what those guys were discussing." I apparently had not fallen from Grace of God so far that a miracle didn't intervene, and luckily there was no car near me on I-70 as I played truck-sized pinball. The truck came to a stop, pointing the wrong way, but everything was okay somehow. I got Betty running again, lighter than she was used to without Beatrice in the bed, but we're limping back, trying to keep control on that weird-ass non-ice tread-clogging slush. I pass about six accidents of people that experienced the same thing, it was too much for even the stability control and traction control to handle apparently. Lose control a few more times, but not as bad as the first time, because I was already ready for it, instead of a tiny patch of slush on a mostly dry road. Get food for the kids, check in on my mom, pick up at the airport, found a Winchell's Donuts that was open for some odd reason while everything else was closed, and life is good again, but it will be better when I get Beatrice home.

 

I didn't die from extreme social distancing at 9000-some feet and I got lucky in my spin-out. Maybe I shouldn't joke around about this stuff on SA again.

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5 minutes ago, mikewof said:

My joke nearly came true today. I had two near-death experiences, one in slow motion, and one at 70 mph.

I did my chores today, get my sled up the mountains, get her unloaded and I'm screaming up the old mining trail, the engine starts losing power. I figured maybe I was overheating it, you can get really far into the backcountry on a sled in not much time, they're fast. My sled will pull 40 mph through the open terrain with barely a bit of thumb. I got further up the pass, and my sled was running really rough, I turn her around and head back. Then I couldn't get her started again.

I figured I would let Beatrice cool down a bit, I'm looking through my backpack, I notice I have an old copy of Viz Magazine behind my Polaris repair manual ...

20200320_173158.thumb.jpg.3c4d25a9f2fdff35329771da24f1f2f1.jpg

I read a little Viz, the engine cools down, I get her to start, but she's running rough, dies. Then I pull the rope again, it breaks. The clutch starter wouldn't get her going. So I figured I'll just replace the broken pull cord, I get the housing open, get it replaced, about 30-some minutes, darkness is about 90 minutes out at that point, I'm way the fuck in, dead quiet, though I can hear another sled somewhere in the distance. I pull it, I screwed up on the return coil spring lock. Then I disassemble it all try it again, getting colder and the wind is picking up, the realize the repair is too much and I decide to leave the sled up there, I guess about 9,000 feet or so. I figured it's better to have to come back for the sled than die of exposure once the night sets in and I can't find my way out. (Hurray for maturity and good decisions based on life experience!) Snow picks up more, I hoof it the best I can to cover the 40-some mph ground on foot. I'm scared. Viruses have nothing on this. I snap a photo of my poor love, alone, by the side of the trail ...

20200320_182931.thumb.jpg.c74db451967ea0ebb4497275dcf6986b.jpg

I just keep walking, trying to take note of the silhouettes of the mountains, in case I have to navigate by moonlight. No cell signals, the GPS wouldn't lock in either, though I don't push that to conserve the battery just in case. I make decent time, get to about a mile from the trailhead, a guy on a sled comes up from the other direction, gives me a ride to the trailhead. Death by exposure averted, I just have to get back up there asap in the morning, fix the sled and get her home. I get back to the truck, message from my sister, my mom's in the hospital, fell in her house and cut her eye, no other messages except that my cousin wants to leave the hospital because she's afraid of infection. Before I take off, I hear the guys next to me talking about a near major accident on the way up. That didn't make sense to me the roads seemed pretty dry on the way up. I'm driving back close to the speed limit so I can get my mom from the hospital and also pick up someone from the airport, then my son calls complaining about the lack of food in the house, "gotta deal with it, the shelves are mostly empty." Meanwhile, my truck is coming back without the ballast of the sled in the bed, I hit a little patch of slush, but something was weird with the road, it wasn't really ice, but the slush had a strange ability to clog the treads of the tires, it was just that perfect consistency. Before I know it, my truck is spin city, I spun around about three times, bouncing off the guardrail. I think to myself while spinning around, "this must have been what those guys were discussing." I apparently had not fallen from Grace of God so far that a miracle didn't intervene, and luckily there was no car near me on I-70 as I played truck-sized pinball. The truck came to a stop, pointing the wrong way, but everything was okay somehow. I got Betty running again, lighter than she was used to without Beatrice in the bed, but we're limping back, trying to keep control on that weird-ass non-ice tread-clogging slush. I pass about six accidents of people that experienced the same thing, it was too much for even the stability control and traction control to handle apparently. Lose control a few more times, but not as bad as the first time, because I was already ready for it, instead of a tiny patch of slush on a mostly dry road. Get food for the kids, check in on my mom, pick up at the airport, found a Winchell's Donuts that was open for some odd reason while everything else was closed, and life is good again!

 

But maybe I shouldn't joke around about this stuff on SA again.

 

I guess I shouldn't have joked around here before. But hopefully I'm done.

The snowmobile metaphorical story of the entire trump presidency.

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8 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

Impending blackness? I thought it was all silent night and raindrops on roses, Small children playing on sleds and kindly old men roasting chestnuts?

My mother-in-law turned 97 two days ago. She's been living with us for 15 years, and the last few years we have had some long conversations about death.

She reckons she's tired and ready to go. I think that deep down she still expects to go to heaven and be reunited with her departed family. 

To me the worst thing about dying is the waste of all that experience and learning. Given an extra 200 years or so, I'd probably be halfway sensible.

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2 hours ago, mikewof said:

Apparently the Boomers do not consider death to be raindrops on roses. It's like they learned enough not to believe in heaven, but they stopped before they got to the whole secular humanism thing as something more than an abstract concept that they only exercise when they get on one of those Starbucks pay-it-forward drive--through lines where they pay for the lady's coffee behind them, and then consider this essentially meaningless act to be the purest expression of global humanity.

Mike just shut the fuck up will you.

My sister, the one with breast cancer, rang me in a panic this afternoon.

She'd rung my mother, The one with advanced pulmonary fibrosis in a nursing home. Mum cant breathe and the nurse hasn't come yet.

So I go racing down the road (she's only 10 minutes away) to find my brother standing on the doorstep.

They wont let him in because they are locked down on weekends. There's a carer standing on the other side, waving us away and pointing to the sign on the door that says no visiting on weekends

. I say..have you rung? 

He says "no" what's the  point.:rolleyes:

I say, "well that carer in the lobby probably  doesn't know mums having and episode ."

So I call and the nurse that's with my mother picks up..

She says," I'm with her now, you can't come in but wait there and I'll come down when I can."

He says 'Well i'm not waiting around" and leaves

Well five minuits later she come's down to the door and lets me into the lobby.

Mums OK, she got a bit short of breath, paniced, got worse, but her oxygen, temp, and blood pressure are fine.

 

I ring my little sister (mum's golden child) 

She cracks up,sobbing and  crying that she can't be with mum (Her immune system is compromised because of the Chemo and she's 150k away)

she's bawling she doesn't want mum to be alone and frightened and die like a goldfish flopping on the floor.

After I calm her down a bit, I ring my Brother..he's complaining about the inconvenient visiting hours and says

"Well it's not convenient, I'm not leaving work early, so If I can't see her on weekends, I wont be visiting.

(he's just told me this afternoon that he's working partly from home, He live 20 minutes away)

 

So you see mike, this crisis is causing a lot of people some real misery and distress and emotional pain despite the smelling of roses and the snowflakes and children. Today it's bad and tomorrow beyond imagining.

So please..will you just shut the fuck up. 

 

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48 minutes ago, Happy said:

My mother-in-law turned 97 two days ago. She's been living with us for 15 years, and the last few years we have had some long conversations about death.

She reckons she's tired and ready to go. I think that deep down she still expects to go to heaven and be reunited with her departed family. 

To me the worst thing about dying is the waste of all that experience and learning. Given an extra 200 years or so, I'd probably be halfway sensible.

Yeah, one wonders if somewhere in the universe there is a planet where brain cells spin and whirl happily in ever changing steps and colours, where all brain cells are equal, with no memory of the depression and bipolar madness. I'd like that.

 

A bit like the Dog star.. but for brain cells'

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Just now, Shortforbob said:

Yeah, one wonders if somewhere in the universe there is a planet where brain cells spin and whirl happily in ever changing steps and colours, where all brain cells are equal, with no memory of the depression and bipolar madness. I'd like that.

 

A bit like the Dog star.. but for brain cells'

I wish you strength dealing with your family stuff. 

As far as easing your mind, I can recommend a little spliff in a quiet garden or park, accompanied by a dog. Listen to the birdies, the leaves rustling, observe the dog sampling the smells, cuddle the dog, take a few deep breaths and have a good stretch. Remember that you're still better off than 90% of humanity.

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Happy said:

I wish you strength dealing with your family stuff. 

As far as easing your mind, I can recommend a little spliff in a quiet garden or park, accompanied by a dog. Listen to the birdies, the leaves rustling, observe the dog sampling the smells, cuddle the dog, take a few deep breaths and have a good stretch. Remember that you're still better off than 90% of humanity.

 

 

Can I borrow your dog?

(actually, I've just been wrestling with Boo) :D

Nah, I just went for a drive, tried to buy some tonic, for a G&T..no fucking tonic. . So I just drove over the Yarra ..not terribly reassuring..Johnson St is almost empty.But it was relaxing in a surreal kind of way..then came home and wrestled with my poor demented dog..I'll go for a sit in the park with her when all the other doggies are tucked up dreaming of Sirius.

 

And actually, wishing me weakness would be betterer then I could just hide.

 

:Small smiley 

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3 hours ago, mikewof said:

I must have missed this, what's the problem with corn syrup?

Does it not fit our current Austerity Package?

It's just a metaphor about tightening restrictions on things people like.

Humans need physical contact and 6-foot distant elbow bumps don't count.  There's limits to how long and how thoroughly governments can keep people separated.  Right now, its ok - but it will eventually boil over.  I think Americans can manage two weeks.  I don't think we can do eight weeks without civil unrest.

As I said so many pages back, what's been lacking in all of this is some sort of metric for UN-ratcheting the constraints.  There isn't a plan that's been articulated. The 'flattening the curve' picture is conveniently missing the numbers.  Because if they were on the chart, people would have already said "Oh hell no". 

I think there is a plan or at least a strategy.  You can visually superimpose the time scales over the 'curve flattened' graph to get a sense of how long it would have to last.  Areas under curves - they have to equal.  The short one tells you how long the flat one is.  The Spanish flu was the 'unabaited model' and lasted two years with multiple spikes.  That means the flattened curve will extend conservatively until 2026.  That's just math.

There are three races going on - the first is medical supplies and beds.  That's what flattening the curve is all about.  Not overwhelming the magical line of capacity.

If the medical providers go down, the system crashes. They need PPE.  There's a frantic race to create/provide more PPE and adopt industrially created products for that purpose.  That's where the President should get Ford/GM or equivalent involved, if they're not already.  They offered to retool and produce stuff - dust off the old designs, hook up with DUPONT, DOW, and International Paper, and start cranking out masks, gloves, and gowns.   The world is going to need that stuff, even if the US has enough.  It will not get wasted.  The second is beds.  Start converting hotels and whatever other appropriate facilities might apply such as semiconductor manufacturing plants that have upgraded HVAC capacity and already have power/specialty gas capability.   Here's step one of your bail out - we're buying these properties.. x,y.z.  Go to the RV hub of the world in Elkhart Indiana.  They know how to make modular shit fast.  Get them producing mobile units that would be deployable INSIDE containment buildings such as those earlier described or as interconnected units if necessary.  Third is harder - staff.  I'm sure there's already people looking at fast-tracking associated fields - I'd start with dental hygienist.  They're already use to dealing with patients and PPC and they're not going to be busy.  Fast track them to LPN or at least Nursing Assistant level.  If there's a place where we're failing, it seems to be this option.  If we have to flatten the curve because we don't have enough beds and staff, then make beds and everything necessary to support the patient care.   There's a simple historical truth - Americans win wars by building shit.  Any military historian will tell you that the Americans don't have the bravest or the most skilled or the most tactically brilliant force.  What they have is more guns, bombs, and ships and seemingly bottomless reserves to create more as necessary.  As the Russian saying goes, Americans don't do anything unless they can overdo it.  There's 7 billion people.  None of this stuff will get wasted.

The second is to create a vaccine or at least something to reduce the frequency/time in hospitals.  That's actually pretty well known and are in process globally.

The third is containment.  How long can you keep the economy stalled and people in their houses before they start to freak out.  As long as food and water and the internet are around, there's hope.  But people will move around.   What happens then.  You going to arrest them?  That'll help social distancing - not.  Shot them?  This is a race where you DO need to outrun the bear.

I think Trump and the rest of DC are still hoping for a miracle cure.  That we don't really NEED more beds and we're OK - that we can come up with a cure.  I hope they are right.  But if you believe the threat is as severe as reported, then treat it as such.

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5 minutes ago, cmilliken said:

It's just a metaphor about tightening restrictions on things people like.

Humans need physical contact and 6-foot distant elbow bumps don't count.  There's limits to how long and how thoroughly governments can keep people separated.  Right now, its ok - but it will eventually boil over.  I think Americans can manage two weeks.  I don't think we can do eight weeks without civil unrest.

 

The third is containment.  How long can you keep the economy stalled and people in their houses before they start to freak out.  As long as food and water and the internet are around, there's hope.  But people will move around.   What happens then.  You going to arrest them?  That'll help social distancing - not.  Shot them?  This is a race where you DO need to outrun the bear.

 

How long can people go without hugging their kids.?

I'm missing mine already and because they no longer live in the same house, apparently when they visit..we can't hug. :(

 

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1 hour ago, Shortforbob said:

So you see mike, this crisis is causing a lot of people some real misery and distress and emotional pain despite the smelling of roses and the snowflakes and children. Today it's bad and tomorrow beyond imagining.

So please..will you just shut the fuck up. 

 

Do you realise that everything you just said actually supports Mike's point of view?

He wants us to look at whether covid 19 is relatively worse than other things we just take for granted, which are also killing people. Your sister with cancer, your mom geting old and having panic attacks. These things suck normally, and are getting much worse due to our response to another virus.

I gave Mike some shit for not taking the time to actually understand the statistics he was curious about - but underneith that I'm also sceptical about the 'lock society down for 6 months' approach to dealing with this. Both my mother and mother in law are in Tas, and in high risk groups. With the current approach, I expect that both of them are likely to contract the virus (they both need to spend time in doctors / hospitals, which will have an almost 100% exposure rate). With the draconain travel restrictions, my family cannot visit either of them without going without income / potentially quitting our jobs. So potentially it's either tell my kids they can't see their grandmothers alive again, or that we can't afford our house.

You have been open about recently being retired. The only way out of the economic situation we are going into - with low productivity and massive public and private debt - is massive inflation. How will your fixed income go when it can only buy 1/4 of what it can today in a few years? How are those greek island holidays looking?

Perhaps it's worth running a few more 'what if' scenarios based on what we have seen so far? Cause if we lose our house, and my kids grandmothers both die without seeing our kids again, I'm not thinking that is the best outcome.

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I'd rather be skeptical and wrong.

Of course all this may..may be a storm in a teacup and a very very expensive one. But who am I, and who are you or mike to gamble with other peoples lives when real experts all over the world are telling us this is what we MUST do?

No man is an island etc and our individual woes are but a sacrifice some of us may have to make for the common good.

Greece will always be there but I'd rather my little island there survives, with all it's grannies.

I just want Mike to shut the fuck up because no matter what he thinks, the reality is that we are doing what we are doing and it's kinda rubbing lemon into everyones cuts.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

 

I'd rather be skeptical and wrong.

Of course all this may..may be a storm in a teacup and a very very expensive one. But who am I, and who are you or mike to gamble with other peoples lives when real experts all over the world are telling us this is what we MUST do?

No man is an island etc and our individual woes are but a sacrifice some of us may have to make for the common good.

Greece will always be there but I'd rather my little island there survives, with all it's grannies.

 

 

"No I can't swear that I'll be here for the rest of your life

But I swear I'll love you for the rest of mine"

- Rest of Mine- by Trace Adkins

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And furthermore, I don't object to mikes mathematical tinkering. Being mathematically challenged, I don't understand any of the numbers stuff.

All I see is a bag of rice and a chess board.

What I do object to is his original premise that this is a boomers plot to save "our" lives at his expense.

I have two kids, their dad is already dead and I like to think they value me for more than what they'll inherit :rolleyes:

The poster of the OP seems to have run away (he's lurking, not posted for a week.)

The USA does not seem to be sitting on it's number 1 spot so Trump's little "ignore it and it will go away" tactic has exploded in all our faces.

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27 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

So much wrong there’s no point.

you, Mikey, dogballs, Millicent, all act like there’s still a choice. Nope. Already been made.

There is a choice every minute. People are choosing to be productive or not. Folks that may have been exposed are choosing to isolate, or not.

I think I've shown willingness to discuss civilly, even when Mike was pulling my chain. So I'd appreciate if you would identify the points you disagree with and why?

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6 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

What I do object to is his original premise that this is a boomers plot to save "our" lives at his expense.

 

Would you sacrifice yourself if doing so guaranteed your kids rich (in experience and life, not money) and fulfilling lives?

Would you take an extra 10 years of life if it meant your kids spent their entire lives paying for it?

Mike used overblown hyperbole, but it's moved beyond a hypothetical construct at the moment.

(And I'm all good, I have buckets of tonic and some rather fine gin to mix with it)

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8 hours ago, Olsonist said:

Article One, Section 9, clause 2, of the big C sez:

The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it.

I don't think anyone is rebelling and despite your boy Shitstain's labeling COVID the Chinese virus, no, we're not getting invaded.

original.png

Ya think so?

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12 minutes ago, Se7en said:

Would you sacrifice yourself if doing so guaranteed your kids rich (in experience and life, not money) and fulfilling lives?

Would by kids be better off being double orphans?  You think they'd have rich and fulfilling lives starting from that amount of grief? They've both had bloody rich in experience lives already thanks very much.

Would you take an extra 10 years of life if it meant your kids spent their entire lives paying for it?

I secured my kids 10 years ago. rock solid. They will never be homeless. That's what caring parents do even if it means they don't have much to retire on.

Mike used overblown hyperbole, but it's moved beyond a hypothetical construct at the moment.

(And I'm all good, I have buckets of tonic and some rather fine gin to mix with it)

Enjoy your fine G&T.

Mines Beef eater.

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8 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

Enjoy your fine G&T.

Mines Beef eater.

Beefeater is not a fine G&T - but I confess I am also a fan of the rough edge it brings.

You dodged both questions BTW. My kids have also had rich lives to date, and I'd like that to continue. But that was not what I asked.

Likewise, your kids could easily be put in the position of mortgaging their houses to pay your medical bills, so I'm not sure that your rock is as solid as you would like.

It's OK to dodge the questions, very few people are comfortable being self aware at the extremes.

 

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10 minutes ago, Se7en said:

Beefeater is not a fine G&T - but I confess I am also a fan of the rough edge it brings.

You dodged both questions BTW. My kids have also had rich lives to date, and I'd like that to continue. But that was not what I asked.

Likewise, your kids could easily be put in the position of mortgaging their houses to pay your medical bills, so I'm not sure that your rock is as solid as you would like.

It's OK to dodge the questions, very few people are comfortable being self aware at the extremes.

 

You have no fucking idea what i've done to secured my kids. I worked three jobs when their Dad left, cleaned offices in exchange for Maths tuition, ran an antique restoration business AND drove a van loading 1 1/2 tonnes of books every day.

They won't be selling anything to put me in a nursing home.

My kids "rich" lives include, cancer treatments, years in hospitals and physical disability, inherited mental health issues and an insane Father, relative poverty and a lot of things that kids shouldn't have to cope with. I'd prefer that sort of "richness" not continue

Now fuck off and enjoy your Blue Sapphire 

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6 minutes ago, Se7en said:

Beefeater is not a fine G&T - but I confess I am also a fan of the rough edge it brings.

You dodged both questions BTW. My kids have also had rich lives to date, and I'd like that to continue. But that was not what I asked.

Meli doesn't like answering hard questions. Her head hurts.

Sympathy with your family situation. It sucks. However I'm totally supportive of the restrictions on entry into Tasmania until we've a handle on the number of cases and a fast/accurate diagnostic test. The medical resources here are quite limited; in the past a lot of difficult cases get sent to Melbourne. Can't do that ATM. We really don't need more people bringing in the virus and starting off more infection clusters.

FWIW I can't get up to Sydney & see my new grandchild but I accept that as necessary, as does my daughter and first wife. I saw this coming and canceled my travel plans a few weeks back.

FKT

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1 minute ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Meli doesn't like answering hard questions. Her head hurts.

Sympathy with your family situation. It sucks. However I'm totally supportive of the restrictions on entry into Tasmania until we've a handle on the number of cases and a fast/accurate diagnostic test. The medical resources here are quite limited; in the past a lot of difficult cases get sent to Melbourne. Can't do that ATM. We really don't need more people bringing in the virus and starting off more infection clusters.

FWIW I can't get up to Sydney & see my new grandchild but I accept that as necessary, as does my daughter and first wife. I saw this coming and canceled my travel plans a few weeks back.

FKT

You can fuck off too.

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2 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

 However I'm totally supportive of the restrictions on entry into Tasmania until we've a handle on the number of cases and a fast/accurate diagnostic test. The medical resources here are quite limited; in the past a lot of difficult cases get sent to Melbourne. Can't do that ATM. We really don't need more people bringing in the virus and starting off more infection clusters.

Yeah, I get it. (but there is no restriction on sending cases to Melbourne currently - our medical system here definately still has capacity) I'm just using it as an example of the potential overreaction of trying to shut so much of our economy down in such a blunt way. As you mentioned before, it'd be trivially easy for me to circumvent the restrictions... but I don't think that is the right response now.

(But if my family in tas all get the virus, I will change my stance quite rapidly.)

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11 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

You have no fucking idea what i've done to secured my kids.

Now fuck off and enjoy your Blue Sapphire 

You didn't talk about their security - you talked about your sacrifice. I have a very good understanding of how fragile security can be in the face of necesity and legal pressure.

Your sacrifices are noble, your belief in security in these times naive.

I don't enjoy the botanicals in Blue Sapphire gin. I'm actually drinking a rooibos gin, yet to decide if I like it, but the investigation is pleasant.

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4 minutes ago, Se7en said:

Yeah, I get it. (but there is no restriction on sending cases to Melbourne currently - our medical system here definately still has capacity) I'm just using it as an example of the potential overreaction of trying to shut so much of our economy down in such a blunt way. As you mentioned before, it'd be trivially easy for me to circumvent the restrictions... but I don't think that is the right response now.

(But if my family in tas all get the virus, I will change my stance quite rapidly.)

This is affecting my family right now, My Mother is dying, slowly, in a nursing home, not in some hypothetical future and I wont be changing my stance at all.

It sucks, it will suck even more. we deal with it.

Fuck, I thought we were a nation of lifters not leaners.:rolleyes:

 

 

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On 3/2/2020 at 7:02 PM, The Joker said:

What do you have to say Bullshitters? 
 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2020/01/27/the-countries-best-and-worst-prepared-for-an-epidemic-infographic/#506e1e735799

 Last October, the Global Health Security Index was released, exploring that very issue. It was the first comprehensive assessment of global health security capabilities in 195 countries. The index analyzed preparation levels by focusing on whether countries have the proper tools in place to deal with large scale outbreaks of disease, with scores measured on a scale of 0 to 100 where 100 is the highest level of preparedness.

The United States has the strongest measures in place and it came first with a score of 83.5, ahead of the United Kingdom with 77.9 and the Netherlands with 75.6. China was further down the ranking with a score of 48.2, placing it 51st.

 

 

I would normal agree with you , if we didn't have  a self centered idiot we have running this country , he put us at a third world status 

Intelligence reports warned that China initially appeared to be minimizing the danger of the virus but that the U.S. would be wise to prepare for a likely pandemic. Yet Trump shrugged off the intelligence and repeatedly assured the public that coronavirus was nothing to worry about. read  the full article below

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/coronavirus-trump-intelligence-threat-ignored_n_5e7573ebc5b6eab779488315

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3 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

This is affecting my family right now, My Mother is dying, slowly, in a nursing home, not in some hypothetical future and I wont be changing my stance at all.

It sucks, it will suck even more. we deal with it.

 

Death is inevitable. I think I'm almost exactly 10 years younger than you, and my mother will certainly not be alive in 10 years, even if this virus doesn't get her. In some ways I hope this virus does, as it will free my father to live for his remaining time. (And that is hard to type).

It does suck. Lets make sure it doesn;t suck harder than it needs to for our kids - eh?

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9 minutes ago, Se7en said:

You didn't talk about their security - you talked about your sacrifice. I have a very good understanding of how fragile security can be in the face of necesity and legal pressure.

Your sacrifices are noble, your belief in security in these times naive.

I don't enjoy the botanicals in Blue Sapphire gin. I'm actually drinking a rooibos gin, yet to decide if I like it, but the investigation is pleasant.

Well der, maybe because my financial and legal arrangements are non of your business? 

Funny you should mention security in these times. 

I have no debt, no mortgage, a secure income immune to the stock market, a secure job, a home that will weather any downturn, and money in the bank

and you call me naive. I call it long term planning for such an event as this.

You?

I'm pretty proud of the way I've managed for my kids on what was dealt.

Anyway. this is getting nasty.

 

 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

Well der, maybe because my financial and legal arrangements are non of your business? 

Which is perfectly OK.

Remember the topic of this thread is whether an over reaction to a virus is threatening ours and our kids economic futures. You are happy that your kids futures are secure, and put that forward as rationale for why the current extreme reaction is appropriate. I'm not as convinced as you on either measure. (BTW we owned a house two yacht clubs further out than yours, and were debt free when we took 6 months off sailing with the kids 3 years ago, so I think our planning is doing OK )

Without being nasty, are you prepared to address the question of how much of our kids future security should be jepordised in the name of the most conservative of approaches to dealing with another corona virus?

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2 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

It’s the premise, and everything flows from it.

I’m looking it as an unprecedented collapse of demand b3cause people are reasonably worried about a nasty virus and the restrictions are following. The economy is collapsing. The question is how to fix it. 

I'd say that the question is how to manage the collapse, and then how to fix it. How much pain do we want to take from the collapse,  and how much pain from the virus?

(so far it seems we are happy to take all of the economy collapse to save pain from the virus)

Threre is pretty strong demand for toilet paper, rice, meat and flour. Which amuses me, as with a diet of rice, flour and meat, I don't need much toilet paper...

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