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Oh, boy.  The rate of closing cases by death of the patient just hit 13%.  But, nothing to worry about.  Pay no attention to those lines on the log scale graphs.  Mike says we cannot know what they indicate.

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BTW, I gave Mikey a time out, which will be the same response anyone gets for calling the coronavirus response measures 'hysteria' or peddling misinformation that could hurt someone.

I'm day 9 of symptoms and still in the middle if it. Let me tell you,  getting a viral load from convience store handle much less than getting it from being in a maskless patients face coughing on you

It is not whether it offends, it is whether it is dangerous. Spreading false information about the dangers of a pandemic can kill people. Most forums have a ratio of between 10 and 100 lurkers to ever

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5 hours ago, mikewof said:

No. And I think it's not so illustrative to compare it to flu anyway. It's a virus like flu, but the mode of death is more like pneumonia strep, which is a bacterial infection. COVID-19, like SARS has a foot in each world, of flu and pneumonia.

Here's the real piece of data that would clearly tell us what's going on ...

How many people have died from COVID-19 pneumonia who did NOT already have a common community pneumonia infection like strep? Or did not have impaired alveoli due to fluid load, or glycol load, vitamin E acetate load, etc.?

For instance if someone is dying because their lungs are inundated with vaporized glycol and vitamin E acetate, and then on their deathbed they catch COVID-19 from a well-meaning orderly, that person officially died of COVID-19.

If someone has COVID-19 and is asymptomatic, and then they catch a community acquired pneumonia strep and die from it as some million people do every year, then that person too has died of COVID-19 pneumonia.

A COVID-19 death should rightly be a death where the COVID-19 significantly contributed to mortality. How many of those are there? 15,000? 10,000? 5,000? 1,000?

Your efforts to deflect are becoming downright fucking ghoulish!! 

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5 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Mikey, last week you didn't even know what a virus -is- and what it does. And you kept repeating the destructive slogan (probably started by Russia's disinformation campaign) that Covid-19 was less important as a health threat than the flu.

Now you're off on a different track of blah blah blah. And continuing to demand that others provide info to support your assertions.

WTF dude?

- DSK

Wofsey has fallen off the edge of the cliff in defence of his argument, his complete lack of empathy is truly disturbing. 

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5 hours ago, mikewof said:

?

We're finally getting to what you want, and now you're getting distracted again.

Try to stay focussed ... 

You want to discuss the rate of change of deaths per unit time right? Please post the graph or the data, and we can discuss.

These shitfights are fun and all, but if someone made a Sailing Anarchy brand attention deficit medicine they would make millions on PA alone.

You are one sick fuck!! 

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Bus,

That's an interesting chart, but when you compare Italy to china, its screams something is wrong with these unconfirmed self reported numbers from China. 

I just cant trust the realism of the China numbers... 

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Skepticism about any particular  number coming out of China is alway warranted. They are technologically quite adept but like our current our current administration, more than a little fast and loose with the truth when politics warrant.

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48 minutes ago, El Boracho said:

 

Wofy: In your career, or your professional circles, did people create time in their busy schedules to hear your presentations at office meetings? I suppose you fancy yourself another Stephen Hawking: drawing people from the street that want to hear your inspiring selfless intelligence while perhaps understanding little of what you speak. Or perhaps my guess is more accurate: your peers dreaded listening to you, created hair appointments from thin air, because you are such an arrogant slippery snot.

And back into ignore he goes, this is definitely not the time or place to hear his delusions of scientific grandeur.  
 

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22 minutes ago, Keith said:

Bus,

That's an interesting chart, but when you compare Italy to china, its screams something is wrong with these unconfirmed self reported numbers from China. 

I just cant trust the realism of the China numbers... 

Agreed.  Italy's death rate is roaring.  Their "Closed Cases" due to the patient dying is 44%.  No, I did not misplace a decimal.  It is FORTY-FOUR PERCENT!

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4 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

Agreed.  Italy's death rate is roaring.  Their "Closed Cases" due to the patient dying is 44%.  No, I did not misplace a decimal.  It is FORTY-FOUR PERCENT!

Screen Shot 2020-03-22 at 4.57.36 PM.png

It’s a good thing that the US has The Best Health Care System in the World. 

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7 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

Agreed.  Italy's death rate is roaring.  Their "Closed Cases" due to the patient dying is 44%.  No, I did not misplace a decimal.  It is FORTY-FOUR PERCENT!

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It's just a bad flu, right Mikey and Dog?

Meanwhile NYC could be just like Italy in 10 days or 2 weeks.   

And yet my buddy just looked out his window and saw 30 people with kids and dogs frollicking in the dog park (not NYC).  

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4 hours ago, mikewof said:

So it sounds perfectly normal to you that someone can die in a COVID-19 isolation ward, with COVID-19 pneumonia symptoms, and that death isn't recorded as COVID-19 related death?

ding ding Mike.

Life isn't normal ATM you tool.

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1 minute ago, MR.CLEAN said:

I have a feeling Florida is going to make everywhere else look almost mild by mid April. 

Boat ramp by my house was backed up with locals heading to the sand bar. FL will set the bar on this. Even the gov refused to close the beaches while spring break was in full swing. Trumpettes in these parts think it’s a hoax. 

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Has there ever been a person less worthy of communicating with than Mikey?  

I know all the other trolls and tRumpaholics have their desperate peculiarities, but none have the willful sociopathy combined with pure intellectual incompetence of Mikey.

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7 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

Has there ever been a person less worthy of communicating with than Mikey?  

I know all the other trolls and tRumpaholics have their desperate peculiarities, but none have the willful sociopathy combined with pure intellectual incompetence of Mikey.

Mike is mike. Bipolar is my guess. and he's on an upswing into Hypermania whatever it is. He doesn't need the stimulation.

I don't know what his official diagnosis is but the pressure in these times is clearly exacerbating it.

Time to disengage.

We need to look after all our people here.

 

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41 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

It’s a good thing that the US has The Best Health Care System in the World. 

32,644 US cases at this time. 402 deaths.

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1 minute ago, Bus Driver said:

Why, it wasn’t that long ago Mikey was Pooh-poohing a death toll of 50. Seems like it’s gaining steam. 

Yep. That's a lot of tombstones for a fake media/democratic hoax.

You can track it here: https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

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5 hours ago, mikewof said:

Dog, depending on whichever way this goes, let's all try to avoid saying "I told you so."

What a steaming pile of horseshit. I don’t, for one moment, believe you wouldn’t be strutting around like a rooster in a hen house if this thing turns out to be nothing. 

I wonder if this is your first admission you might not be as fucking smart as you pretend to be. 

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21 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

What a steaming pile of horseshit. I don’t, for one moment, believe you wouldn’t be strutting around like a rooster in a hen house if this thing turns out to be nothing. 

I wonder if this is your first admission you might not be as fucking smart as you pretend to be. 

That's not even a thing anymore is it?  I mean, it's serious now.  It can't turn out to be nothing because it's definitely something right this minute.

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This fucking asshole is saying "we will win", "we will beat the enemy", "I'm a wartime president".  Fuck him.  His cult will think he had something to do with this.  This isn't a war, it's a pandemic, it's sick people.  He's not directing troops anywhere.  This will be handled with or without him.  And it will be handled despite him.

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11 minutes ago, Cristoforo said:

Tonight’s presser is hilarious. He’s said ‘Chinese Virus’ 10x in the first 10 minutes. 

Completely embarrassing recapping how many gloves he has sent to Seattle. 

And its  only just started 

at least the stock market is not going down while he speaks. That’s 2 days in a row with a steady Stock market!

You spoke too soon.  Futures just hit limit down.

Progressively fewer people are sharing the stage with him....

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2 hours ago, mad said:

Your efforts to deflect are becoming downright fucking ghoulish!! 

Mike doesn’t see people, he sees a dirty left hand(always use the left when there’s no TP) and real-world dirty numbers, and cannot cope.

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1 minute ago, Cristoforo said:

 

Fauci has more impact on futures than Trump now  

 

 

 

If that was true the drop would have happened at the outset. It didn’t. It happened halfway through the stream of diarrhea poured out of orange 45s mouth. 

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Just for Mikey. Not going to covers LenP’s sick acquaintance:

 

L.A. County gives up on containing coronavirus, tells doctors to skip testing of some patients

L.A. County-USC Medical Center
Los Angeles County-USC Medical Center in Boyle Heights.
(Brian van der Brug / Los Angeles Times )
By JACK DOLAN 
MARCH 20, 2020
 

Los Angeles County health officials advised doctors to give up on testing patients in the hope of containing the coronavirus outbreak, instructing them to test patients only if a positive result could change how they would be treated.

The guidance, sent by the Los Angeles County Department of Public Health to doctors on Thursday, was prompted by a crush of patients and shortage of tests, and could make it difficult to ever know precisely how many people in L.A. County contracted the virus.

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7 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Dog it is so easy for you to prove how this 'glorified flu' is not a big deal.  just go volunteer at your local hospital.  Post pics. Unless you are some kind coward?

 

 

When Mrs. O'leary's cow kicked over than lantern, only one stall got burned. Just a little barn.

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28 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

Fact-based speakers don’t seem to last in the orbit of the Most Honest GOP President in History. 

WASHINGTON —Calling it a “promising development,” Dr. Anthony Fauci said on Sunday that alcohol may help people survive the most severe effects of coronavirus briefings.

Noting that millions of Americans have been exposed to the daily briefings of the White House Coronavirus Task Force, Fauci said that he had voluntarily submitted to a preliminary trial of the alcohol-based therapy.

“What we have found is that a single dosage before the briefing and as much as a double dosage after the briefing do much to alleviate the most acute suffering,” Fauci said.

 

 

(The Borowitz Report) :D

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6 minutes ago, Cristoforo said:

 

So you flew to Seattle last week disregarding every guideline on social distancing. 

 

Nope. I flew in a level 3 suit with goggles and a mask before any federal guidelines were issued. 

They all thought i was crazy.  they probably don't now. 

Keep doing you though.  It's a good look.

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7 minutes ago, Cristoforo said:

Of course but that’s not the hypothetical question being proposed right now  

 would you prefer trump or pence right now for the next 8 months? 

Assuming Trump dies or resigns or goes to jail or whatever.  

Anyy simpleton can say they all suck. That’s not an option in the hypothetical  

I would rather have Pence for the next 8 months than Trump 

 

 

 

 

 

Pence would be way, way better than Trump provided he gets stricken down by the lord a week or two after Trump.

 

O

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The Cantonese fish mongers, think rude Boston but from Asia, were really nice to me today. Lucky Seafood Wholesale on E 12th. I'm a regular but a) they're usually really busy (Cash Only! Cash Only!) b) I'm retail and c) I don't speak the language. I seriously got no problem with any of that if they have the goods. They have the goods as their Asian wholesale clientele are really picky. Lots of variety too but I still just get salmon steaks ($6/lb farmed). They pulled out a fresh fish and sliced it up. I always say an inch they give me an inch and half. The checkout lady chatted with me about N95 masks and gloves. I was wearing my N95 left over from the fires. Their green beans were pre-wrapped today. The veggies were normally bucketed.

This is a parchment salmon. Easy, no mess cleanup.

First, a couple of salmon steaks. Debone them with a knife and tweezers.

Second, lay the steaks out on parchment paper. I coat them with some olive oil, mostly for the taste. Salt, basil, lemon, whatever. I put some onion scales on top and seal up the parchment. I think I should probably microwave the onions for a minute. They don't steam that well in 20 minutes.

400 degrees. 20 minutes. You can't really over cook them unlike if you broil them.

One of things I like about the olive oil is that it sits at the bottom of the parchment waiting to be dabbed up with some bread. Delish.

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13 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Nope. I flew in a level 3 suit with goggles and a mask before any federal guidelines were issued. 

They all thought i was crazy.  they probably don't now. 

Keep doing you though.  It's a good look.

You probably wear a harness stepping up out of the companion way,  offshore ................ ;)

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44 minutes ago, Cristoforo said:

...

I would rather have Pence for the next 8 months than Trump 

I understand the odds that they both die or reign and you get Pelosi for the next 8 months is a wet dream for you, but that is not an option for you in this exercise 

I would rather have Pence than Trump. Only bcuz Pence qualifies as anybody but Trump. The country needs Pelosi in congress, and it would be way to much disruption when we need calm. Don't need America's Finest getting all worked up and start belly-bucking liberals in the streets. Ya know, violating social distance with their bellies, fists and cars. Would be some good lockdown entertainment watching McConnell change his tune, tho.

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In good news for Jerkie, Soreass and @Dog, the hospitals are starting to activate their triage systems, so if you’re an old covid hoax denier, you may not have to worry about that terribly uncomfortable vent. Cause you won’t qualify for one.

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2 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

WASHINGTON —Calling it a “promising development,” Dr. Anthony Fauci said on Sunday that alcohol may help people survive the most severe effects of coronavirus briefings.

Noting that millions of Americans have been exposed to the daily briefings of the White House Coronavirus Task Force, Fauci said that he had voluntarily submitted to a preliminary trial of the alcohol-based therapy.

“What we have found is that a single dosage before the briefing and as much as a double dosage after the briefing do much to alleviate the most acute suffering,” Fauci said.

 

 

(The Borowitz Report) :D

L’Ecole Merlot 2016!  Oh!  Borowitz!  Self fulfilling prophecy then.... :lol:

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7 hours ago, Keith said:

Bus,

That's an interesting chart, but when you compare Italy to china, its screams something is wrong with these unconfirmed self reported numbers from China. 

I just cant trust the realism of the China numbers... 

If the Italy vs. China data set doesn't jibe, how do you know which one is accurate short of doing a stochastic or moving average analysis?

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3 hours ago, Raz'r said:

In good news for Jerkie, Soreass and @Dog, the hospitals are starting to activate their triage systems, so if you’re an old covid hoax denier, you may not have to worry about that terribly uncomfortable vent. Cause you won’t qualify for one.

Support the party line or they'll let you die in triage.

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2 minutes ago, mikewof said:

Support the party line or they'll let you die in triage.

i don't think that is the protocol.  I think it is over 60s in italy.  I guess here it depends on whether you are in a red or blue state.  

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2 minutes ago, mikewof said:

If the Italy vs. China data set doesn't jibe, how do you know which one is accurate short of doing a stochastic or moving average analysis?

I can trust the information coming from Italy.

I cannot trust the the source of the information coming from China.

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6 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

Mike is mike. [B<Bipolar is my guess. and he's on an upswing into Hypermania whatever it is. He doesn't need the stimulation.[/b]

I don't know what his official diagnosis is but the pressure in these times is clearly exacerbating it.

Time to disengage.

We need to look after all our people here.

 

An amateur psychological diagnosis tells volumes about the amateur.

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2 minutes ago, Keith said:

I can trust the information coming from Italy.

I cannot trust the the source of the information coming from China.

I'm not suggesting that Italy is unethical or that China is ethical.

But the best laid plans of mice and men go 'oft awry. 

"Trust" is something for politics and religion and marriages. Scientists should never "trust" conflicting data until one or more data sets meet measurement and application.

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6 hours ago, Bus Driver said:

What a steaming pile of horseshit. I don’t, for one moment, believe you wouldn’t be strutting around like a rooster in a hen house if this thing turns out to be nothing. 

I wonder if this is your first admission you might not be as fucking smart as you pretend to be. 

I'm not that smart. Average IQ.

It doesn't take high intelligence to think. It doesn't take strong muscles to run.

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1 minute ago, El Boracho said:

This is interesting. Has this comparison of Kentucky (D) and Tennessee (R) been posted yet? Elections have consequences.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/3/21/1929798/-Kentucky-vs-Tennessee-on-coronavirus-may-be-the-best-example-of-elections-matter-in-decades

 

90442482_10107473068313120_2911233647610691584_o.jpg

Posted on this thread an hour ago.  No harm in doing it again

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1 minute ago, mikewof said:

I'm not suggesting that Italy is unethical or that China is ethical.

But the best laid plans of mice and men go 'oft awry. 

"Trust" is something for politics and religion and marriages. Scientists should never "trust" conflicting data until one or more data sets meet measurement and application.

OK,

If your analytical mind is fed inaccurate data in, then you have nothing but inaccurate data out, correct?

So, In this case, you can not trust or verify the accuracy of the information your getting from China..

simple.

 

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15 minutes ago, Keith said:

OK,

If your analytical mind is fed inaccurate data in, then you have nothing but inaccurate data out, correct?

So, In this case, you can not trust or verify the accuracy of the information your getting from China..

simple.

I'm still not clear why you can trust the data from Italy, but you can't trust the data from China.

Do you know something about the way data in both places was collected? The characterization? The controls?

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36 minutes ago, Keith said:

I can trust the information coming from Italy.

I cannot trust the the source of the information coming from China.

Agreed. Similar to the total caseload in the US. Although the US bogus numbers are just incompetence. “We’re #1, Fuck Yeah”

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3 minutes ago, mikewof said:

I'm still not clear why you can trust the data from Italy, but you can't trust the data from China.

Do you know something about the way data in both places was collected? The characterization? The controls?

Did you figure out why the checksum is still off? I’m guessing you have a circular formula.

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Just now, mikewof said:

I'm still not clear why you can trust the data from Italy, but you can't trust the data from China.

Do you know something about the way data in both places was collected? The characterization? The controls?

You can work that out for yourself...

I know you have the ability...

carry on.

 

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8 hours ago, mad said:

Wofsey has fallen off the edge of the cliff in defence of his argument, his complete lack of empathy is truly disturbing. 

I've been working on the problem of diarrhea and cholera in Developing Nations back when you used to hang out here talking for days about your grandfathers guns that you inherited or something.

Money talks, bullshit walks.

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This evening someone pointed out that the big spike in NY is due in large part to the increase in testing.  Now that testing is finally getting off the ground (bad pun for drive thru) I expect to see the numbers rising rapidly in Texas as well. 

I would not trust Mikey to calculate my garbage.

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9 hours ago, LenP said:

Thank you. That was my understanding from what I have been told as well. The additional bit that Mike seems hung up on is that those presumptive diagnoses are not being reported as confirmed cases in the media. 

You're suggesting the USA is now under control of a conspiracy. I have seen no reports that physicians and hospitals are not doing the job to which they have been entrusted, but that's essentially what you claim.

So you're now suggesting that the current 420 COVID-19 deaths is a hugely under-reported number, and that "all" of the hospitals and "all" of the physicians are in fact hiding COVID-19 deaths from the CDC and the American public by not noting that a huge percentage of patients that die from pneumonia and flu in fact likely died from COVID-19? You find it odd that I'm "hung up" on your suggestion of a massive American conspiracy?

Okay, so our current death toll of 420 is wrong, and in fact IN YOUR OPINION GIVEN THIS CONSPIRACY, about how many many Americans have in fact perished from COVID-19? 840? 1,200? 2,400? 4,800? 9,600? Certainly with those numbers, we would see an unexplained bump in the deaths from community acquired pneumonia and seasonal flu? Right?

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4 minutes ago, d'ranger said:

This evening someone pointed out that the big spike in NY is due in large part to the increase in testing.  Now that testing is finally getting off the ground (bad pun for drive thru) I expect to see the numbers rising rapidly in Texas as well. 

I would not trust Mikey to calculate my garbage.

I don't understand your logic.

You're suggesting that increased testing is going to raise the mortality rate? Roughly how would that happen?

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3 minutes ago, AJ Oliver said:

but lots of you trusted what the US gummint said when they were lying and covering up bigly. 

Why pick on China? 

Please spend a little time, and learn more about China.

Here's a small sample of what happens inside a country that almost completely controls its own news reporting to the outside world.

https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-china-blog-48700786

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4 minutes ago, mikewof said:

I don't understand your logic.

You're suggesting that increased testing is going to raise the mortality rate? Roughly how would that happen?

You don't understand logic or reason dude. The incidence rate is rising because increased testing is finding it. You know, because symptoms don't always show up and even then it's 2 weeks.  With no testing there is no reliable data and NY is leading the country in the number of tests being administered.

Don't bother replying as I am finally just putting you on ignore. And someone took my crayons.

edit: And where the fuck did you get mortality rate from my post? Out of your ass? Your obsession with people dying?

 

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12 minutes ago, AJ Oliver said:

but lots of you trusted what the US gummint said when they were lying and covering up bigly. 

Why pick on China? 

Here's another example, one that an American can relate to.

NBA facing 'substantial' losses over China dispute

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-50091931

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1 minute ago, d'ranger said:

You don't understand logic or reason dude. The incidence rate is rising because increased testing is finding it. You know, because symptoms don't always show up and even then it's 2 weeks.  With no testing there is no reliable data and NY is leading the country in the number of tests being administered.

Don't bother replying as I am finally just putting you on ignore. And someone took my crayons.

"Incidence rate"? Do you mean the number of infections versus time? The number of deaths versus time?

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16 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Did you figure out why the checksum is still off? I’m guessing you have a circular formula.

Checksum? Cite?

How can you have a checksum on collected data? Isn't a checksum a thing that is made to check the accuracy of an existing data set?

 

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4 minutes ago, d'ranger said:

You don't understand logic or reason dude. The incidence rate is rising because increased testing is finding it. You know, because symptoms don't always show up and even then it's 2 weeks.  With no testing there is no reliable data and NY is leading the country in the number of tests being administered.

Don't bother replying as I am finally just putting you on ignore. And someone took my crayons.

edit: And where the fuck did you get mortality rate from my post? Out of your ass? Your obsession with people dying?

 

This is the most important aspect.

If the testing ramps up, then we will begin to see the real numbers.

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21 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Really?  

Yeah, please feel free to explain. Is it just kind of a political thing like "we can't trust the Chinese"? Or is it a specific and known problem about the way the data was collected in China?

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17 minutes ago, mikewof said:

You're suggesting the USA is now under control of a conspiracy. I have seen no reports that physicians and hospitals are not doing the job to which they have been entrusted, but that's essentially what you claim.

So you're now suggesting that the current 420 COVID-19 deaths is a hugely under-reported number, and that "all" of the hospitals and "all" of the physicians are in fact hiding COVID-19 deaths from the CDC and the American public by not noting that a huge percentage of patients that die from pneumonia and flu in fact likely died from COVID-19? You find it odd that I'm "hung up" on your suggestion of a massive American conspiracy?

Okay, so our current death toll of 420 is wrong, and in fact IN YOUR OPINION GIVEN THIS CONSPIRACY, about how many many Americans have in fact perished from COVID-19? 840? 1,200? 2,400? 4,800? 9,600? Certainly with those numbers, we would see an unexplained bump in the deaths from community acquired pneumonia and seasonal flu? Right?

No, he’s reporting the fact that we don’t have enough tests, and the medical system is making do without.

 

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9 minutes ago, mikewof said:

Checksum? Cite?

How can you have a checksum on collected data? Isn't a checksum a thing that is made to check the accuracy of an existing data set?

 

Dude, I’m imagining you feverishly building your bullshit number in some spreadsheet and spouting them off.

yet we know they’re bullshit since nothing holds together.

as an old spreadsheet jockey, I’m just pointing out that you can use checksums to auto-check your math.

It was a JOKE.

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26 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

No, he’s reporting the fact that we don’t have enough tests, and the medical system is making do without.

No.

He's "reporting" that hospitals and physicians are putting people in COVID-19 isolation wards, and when some of them die, many or most of these disease victim's deaths are not reported at COVID-19 deaths, since they didn't get a proper test.

He's suggesting that the patient's data makes no mention of COVID-19, and when these people in COVID-19 isolation wards die, they are apparently marked as just deaths by "pneumonia" or "flu" or whatever happens to be handy. And "all" of the hospitals are doing this, apparently under direction by the CDC.

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1 minute ago, mikewof said:

No.

He's "reporting" that hospitals and physicians are putting people in COVID-19 isolation wards, and when some of them die, many or most of these disease victim's deaths are not reported at COVID-19 deaths, since they didn't get a proper test.

He's suggesting that the patient's data makes no mention of COVID-19, and when these people in COVID-19 isolation wards die, they are apparently marked as just deaths by "pneumonia" or "flu" or whatever happens to be handy. And "all" of the hospitals are doing this, apparently under direction by the CDC.

Did you read what the actual doctor  that is treating these people in the ICU wrote in this thread not too long ago?  

Holy shit.  You are the dumbest fucker on this forum, and that says a lot.  Self-quarantine from this forum for a year. 

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2 hours ago, mikewof said:

How would that work? If more asymptomatic people are diagnosed with the disease, how would the death rate increase? Wouldn't that make the death rate decrease?

Mike, why have you privileged all of us with your imagined expertise?  My mom's approaching 91 and suffers from pneumonia but has a mind sharper than yours.  I claim she has more to offer than you, hell, she's never been on this site.  Your choice, down or polyester, what is your pillow of choice to be snuffed with?

When we shift gears and get personal, I know you are a good guy.  I really don't like how you have spread your message on this thread.