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This morning, I endured two hours of an old classmate telling me about what Q says.’

His was the single most insane series of conspiratorial combined with looney tunes religious absurdity I have ever encountered. 
 

**There are hundreds of Earth like planets in this galaxy that were formed billions of years ago by satan and Donald Trump is God’s chosen one who  will soon be putting Jesus back in charge of this planet. 
**NASA faked the moon landing

**Obama didn’t go to Harvard or Columbia. Michelle is a man. The Obamas are a homosexual couple 

**Hillary eats children

**Two thirds of our Governors, Senators, and Congressmen will be attested and sent to Guantanamo after Gropenfuhrer’s second term begins

**The war in Iraq was about stealing their gold and Hillary has it

**the war in Iraq was to steal the some sort of stargate that is now at Area 51

**we haven’t built any new rockets since the Saturns because the military is switching entirely to antigravity 

**We have the capability to travel to the center of the galaxy in about two minutes and people have been doing that since the early seventies. 
 

**All sorts of people are in on a huge pedophile ring... he named pretty much every politician other than God's chosen one including Pence and the Bush clan. He rattled of a series of the very most successful actors. 
 

**every one of my questions about Gropenfuhrer’s behavior were deflected with “Aren’t  all humans flawed?”

========
I listened while my phone sat on speaker and I worked on other tasks. His Unquestioning devotion to Q and to Gropenfuhrer was fascinating me. 
For some reason this sort of whack job and others like white  supremacists are compelled to be faithful to the Gropenfuhrer. 
   In fact, the way I brought a rapid end to his call was to start asking questions whose answers absolutely had to contradict and disrupt his programmed views. 
     He rapidly became agitated and after just a few questions he was gone from my phone. 

 

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1 hour ago, Gouvernail said:

This morning, I endured two hours of an old classmate telling me about what Q says.’

His was the single most insane series of conspiratorial combined with looney tunes religious absurdity I have ever encountered. 
 

**There are hundreds of Earth like planets in this galaxy that were formed billions of years ago by satan and Donald Trump is God’s chosen one who  will soon be putting Jesus back in charge of this planet. 
**NASA faked the moon landing

**Obama didn’t go to Harvard or Columbia. Michelle is a man. The Obamas are a homosexual couple 

**Hillary eats children

**Two thirds of our Governors, Senators, and Congressmen will be attested and sent to Guantanamo after Gropenfuhrer’s second term begins

**The war in Iraq was about stealing their gold and Hillary has it

**the war in Iraq was to steal the some sort of stargate that is now at Area 51

**we haven’t built any new rockets since the Saturns because the military is switching entirely to antigravity 

**We have the capability to travel to the center of the galaxy in about two minutes and people have been doing that since the early seventies. 
 

**All sorts of people are in on a huge pedophile ring... he named pretty much every politician other than God's chosen one including Pence and the Bush clan. He rattled of a series of the very most successful actors. 
 

**every one of my questions about Gropenfuhrer’s behavior were deflected with “Aren’t  all humans flawed?”

========
I listened while my phone sat on speaker and I worked on other tasks. His Unquestioning devotion to Q and to Gropenfuhrer was fascinating me. 
For some reason this sort of whack job and others like white  supremacists are compelled to be faithful to the Gropenfuhrer. 
   In fact, the way I brought a rapid end to his call was to start asking questions whose answers absolutely had to contradict and disrupt his programmed views. 
     He rapidly became agitated and after just a few questions he was gone from my phone. 

 

Unless this moran owed you lots of money why would you subject yourself to that.

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1 hour ago, Gouvernail said:

...   ...

   In fact, the way I brought a rapid end to his call was to start asking questions whose answers absolutely had to contradict and disrupt his programmed views. 
     He rapidly became agitated and after just a few questions he was gone from my phone. 

 

Good on ya for being polite to an old friend.

I have several such, none quite as whacked as you describe but pretty close. I hate to say this, but I just don't have the interest in listening to that bullshit and have diverted the conversation by asking about their grandkids.

This kind of totally screwball shit is why I expect a civil war to break out no matter who wins. A large percentage of people are genuinely insane, out of touch with reality, and willing to resort to violence. The fact that >90% of them are Trumpalos have them temporarily united.

- DSK

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5 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Good on ya for being polite to an old friend.

I dumped some old friends over Shitstain. After the dumping, when a cooler head prevailed, I thought about it and concluded that I'd been carrying the friendship and that they'd been basically lying. They ain't my problem no more.

Dunno if they were Q bonkers but one of them was Birther. A Cal educated Birther.

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8 minutes ago, Olsonist said:

I dumped some old friends over Shitstain. After the dumping, when a cooler head prevailed, I thought about it and concluded that I'd been carrying the friendship and that they'd been basically lying. They ain't my problem no more.

Dunno if they were Q bonkers but one of them was Birther. A Cal educated Birther.

I find that kind of sad.

I have dropped a few old friends, but not over differences in politics, religion, music, or type of boat. They became so consistently obnoxious and rude that I was unwilling to spend time with them. For example, one evening at the sailing club a few years ago, an old friend started arguing over politics with the wife of an old friend (she is also a friend but there is a slight degree of difference). The funny thing is that they are both pro-Trump. Later, I said to him, "Why start yelling at her like that? She has a son in Afghanistan, would it kill you to be polite to her?" He uncorked another rant which I listened to two sentences of, then walked away. Have not said as much as "Hello" to him, since. This is a small town, it is worth the effort to get along but I learned long ago that there is no point in being polite to obnoxious assholes who want to walk all over you.

- DSK

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I figure whoever is behind Q is doing it to out the really wacko morans.

Anyone who believes any of that shit is seriously disturbed and we need to know who they are.

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2 hours ago, bridhb said:

WTF kind of school did you go to?

It had nothing to do with the school. He was a classmate in 1961-2.... maybe. He wasn’t sure which teacher he had for fourth grade. He was not in my fifth or sixth grade classes and not in some of my seventh grade classes ..... but he may have been in some. 
My family moved to a different town after seventh grade . 
 

I thoroughly enjoy finding old classmates and seeing how their lives have gone . We chatted for an hour before he went into his Q stuff. 
I Find it  fascinating how people buy into opinion sets, religions, political parties and etc that are different from my own. I want to know how they got there. I want to understand what motivates them.

i am fascinated by young people who would rather sail a big slow keelboat than enjoy a race on a fast wet dinghy.

Sometimes the person with the WTF opinion makes sense to me. 
 

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4 hours ago, Gouvernail said:

**Two thirds of our Governors, Senators, and Congressmen will be attested and sent to Guantanamo after Gropenfuhrer’s second term begins

That doesn’t seem too farfetched.

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1 hour ago, Olsonist said:

Q is short for QAnon. It's really really stupid but unfortunately an existing conspiracy theory.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QAnon

I would be scared knowing that people who espouse that shit are walking around - perhaps in my own neighbourhood.  Is this why Americans are obsessed with guns?

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1 hour ago, SloopJonB said:

I figure whoever is behind Q is doing it to out the really wacko morans.

Anyone who believes any of that shit is seriously disturbed and we need to know who they are.

Yep.

But I suspect you are grasping for rationality in a dark, tangled corner where rationality has run away crying, long ago.

And yeah, those people need to not have access to guns.

- DSK

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2 hours ago, Recidivist said:

I would be scared knowing that people who espouse that shit are walking around - perhaps in my own neighbourhood.  Is this why Americans are obsessed with guns?

The guns are just a symptom of the widespread ignorant insanity that fuels the Q phenomenon.

It's all the result of us not being permitted to beat our children for 3 generations now.

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2 hours ago, Recidivist said:

I would be scared knowing that people who espouse that shit are walking around - perhaps in my own neighbourhood.  Is this why Americans are obsessed with guns?

Qanon is one of the things that Al Gore kinda regrets about writing the open-access internet legislation and funding bill. 

Talk about unintended consequences.  

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17 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

The guns are just a symptom of the widespread ignorant insanity that fuels the Q phenomenon.

It's all the result of us not being permitted to beat our children for 3 generations now.

I'd be happy to beat your children, depending on the reimbursement.

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8 hours ago, Gouvernail said:

This morning, I endured two hours of an old classmate telling me about what Q says.

Cane you gettem to joine SA?  If you telle me theire screede name Ille puttin a goode worde forrem as possibelle moderatore.                                  :)

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6 hours ago, Recidivist said:

I would be scared knowing that people who espouse that shit are walking around - perhaps in my own neighbourhood.  Is this why Americans are obsessed with guns?

Them owning guns?  or the need to own one to protect yourself from people espousing that lunacy? 

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 The Qanon people are real live Alex Jones, not the actor playing a character but actually professing those beliefs and even weirder things. Their system of beliefs are a jumble of contradictions incorporating anything read or heard that agrees with their major underlying theme or its tangents of which there are many. They do not have trouble discarding (deep state disinformation) or incorporating any and all information no matter how bizzaro. Their filter has been broken by their disillusionment of the media and government or just never existed. The problem is that the net has given them a voice, a place, a group to belong to and whenever that happens there are those who tend to impress their peers by actions not words. Add the 2A to the mix.

For a sample of that thinking (actual statements) in a folksy tune;

 

 

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Had a surgeon scold me the other day because I mentioned that the coronavirus was going to be a test of the government’s ability to adapt to a real economic and health stress test. 

She scolded me for, “as a doctor”, not realizing that COVID-19 is just the common cold, and that the flu is much worse. The only reason it was in the news was it helped the Democrat’s agenda.

I was in “no confrontation”, aka stay professional aka “don’t piss off the idiot surgeon” mode, so just kinda looked at her with my jaw dropped for a beat. I’m pissed I didn’t ask her if case fatality rate Is important, but am more glad that I don’t have any administrators calling me to complain on her behalf.

I couldn’t figure out how to diplomatically puncture her big red balloon of stupid. 

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1 hour ago, phillysailor said:

Had a surgeon scold me the other day because I mentioned that the coronavirus was going to be a test of the government’s ability to adapt to a real economic and health stress test. 

She scolded me for, “as a doctor”, not realizing that COVID-19 is just the common cold, and that the flu is much worse. The only reason it was in the news was it helped the Democrat’s agenda.

I was in “no confrontation”, aka stay professional aka “don’t piss off the idiot surgeon” mode, so just kinda looked at her with my jaw dropped for a beat. I’m pissed I didn’t ask her if case fatality rate Is important, but am more glad that I don’t have any administrators calling me to complain on her behalf.

I couldn’t figure out how to diplomatically puncture her big red balloon of stupid. 

Why didn't you believe her?

https://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/cold-guide/common_cold_causes

from the cite:

You know the drill. Your throat feels scratchy, you start sneezing and coughing, and pretty soon you're in the grip of a nasty cold. To add insult to injury, all that big-time misery is from a tiny invader -- a living thing called a virus.

And it's not just one you need to dodge. There are more than 200 that can lay you low.

It's likely that someday you'll have a close encounter with one of these types:

There are also a lot of viruses that doctors haven't identified. About 20%-30% of colds in adults are caused by these "unknown" bugs.

 

Now, whatcha gonna do about your own balloon of stupid?

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15 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

This place is gold WebMD expert lecture :lol:

And, another baloon of stupid pops off.

Watch out using those dollar bills on your sniffles.  There's lots of germs on them.  That's why it's called filthy lucre.

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15 hours ago, Olsonist said:

I dumped some old friends over Shitstain. After the dumping, when a cooler head prevailed, I thought about it and concluded that I'd been carrying the friendship and that they'd been basically lying. They ain't my problem no more.

A good way to see who your real friends are is to stop carrying the load and see how long they hang around.  They'll be in the wind before you know it.

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The single most frightening thing about the Q cult is the fact its leaders have successfully tied it to faith in Jesus. 
    Those afflicted with blind faith syndrome simply cannot tolerate any form of questioning. They cannot question any belief related to their faith in Jesus as that faith must not be questioned..   ever!!!

    They BELIEVE Gropenfuhrer is operating under God’s holy direction. 
      The Republicans want to hold power. If the Q cult Votes for Republicans, Republicans are not going to chase them away. 
      In fact, if the Q cult had decided Dems we’re controlled by God, the Dems would be touting their party’s big tent where everybody is welcome philosophy.

##%%%%>>>####
more from the conversation 
* John Kennedy didn’t die in the plane crash. He was afraid Hillary was going to kill him and is in hiding.

* Pence is one of the pedo bad guys. 
 

* The Bush Clan is Satan’s Pedo team and Bush the first was not In the casket at the funeral 

* at the funeral, a piece of paper fell out of the programs of Bush, Obama, both Clinton’s snd a few others. The note said “You are next.” Bush was whisked away by Secret Service.

* Gropenfuhrer was chosen to be the great savior leader six years before his election

 

 

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@Gouvernail, you shouldn't try too hard to rationally explain what are in fact irrational people. They're just ... irrational. I think once you get to "They cannot question any belief" then you're pretty much already done. It doesn't matter why they cannot question any belief. They are just that way. It doesn't matter how they see themselves and I'm sure our Vichy elk see themselves as Patriots. Trying to figure out why is just a fool's errand.

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3 hours ago, Saorsa said:

Why didn't you believe her?

https://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/cold-guide/common_cold_causes

from the cite:

You know the drill. Your throat feels scratchy, you start sneezing and coughing, and pretty soon you're in the grip of a nasty cold. To add insult to injury, all that big-time misery is from a tiny invader -- a living thing called a virus.

And it's not just one you need to dodge. There are more than 200 that can lay you low.

It's likely that someday you'll have a close encounter with one of these types:

There are also a lot of viruses that doctors haven't identified. About 20%-30% of colds in adults are caused by these "unknown" bugs.

 

Now, whatcha gonna do about your own balloon of stupid?

Do you really think you are smarter than health experts around the world? Do you really think China quarantined millions and prevented further millions from returning to their places of work and normal activities as a PR stunt to hurt Trump?

The coronavirus responsible for COVID-19 shares high genetic commonality with viruses found in bats, not with the common cold which you cite. 

Do you always pretend to have knowledge in areas in which your knowledge is limited to the google search you’ve performed in the last 3 minutes? Certainly seems so.

Go tell rocket scientists how to get to Mars and then climb aboard. You can be the next “Mad” Mike Hughes and can see for yourself if the world is flat. This challenge is easier for you. Go visit folks with the “common cold” from COVID 19 and then hang around your family. If you choose not to, thank science and not your idiocy.

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6 hours ago, phillysailor said:

Had a surgeon scold me the other day because I mentioned that the coronavirus was going to be a test of the government’s ability to adapt to a real economic and health stress test. 

She scolded me for, “as a doctor”, not realizing that COVID-19 is just the common cold, and that the flu is much worse. The only reason it was in the news was it helped the Democrat’s agenda.

I was in “no confrontation”, aka stay professional aka “don’t piss off the idiot surgeon” mode, so just kinda looked at her with my jaw dropped for a beat. I’m pissed I didn’t ask her if case fatality rate Is important, but am more glad that I don’t have any administrators calling me to complain on her behalf.

I couldn’t figure out how to diplomatically puncture her big red balloon of stupid. 

It's kind of worrisome that a surgeon would be that fuckin' dumb.

But that's the way politics/religion is. Some people check their brains at the door. And Trumpalos have already proven they need somebody to hate.. Good idea to not make yourself into their main target.

- DSK

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56 minutes ago, phillysailor said:

Do you really think you are smarter than health experts around the world? Do you really think China quarantined millions and prevented further millions from returning to their places of work and normal activities as a PR stunt to hurt Trump?

The coronavirus responsible for COVID-19 shares high genetic commonality with viruses found in bats, not with the common cold which you cite. 

Do you always pretend to have knowledge in areas in which your knowledge is limited to the google search you’ve performed in the last 3 minutes? Certainly seems so.

Go tell rocket scientists how to get to Mars and then climb aboard. You can be the next “Mad” Mike Hughes and can see for yourself if the world is flat. This challenge is easier for you. Go visit folks with the “common cold” from COVID 19 and then hang around your family. If you choose not to, thank science and not your idiocy.

No, as a matter of fact, I don't.  But,. since you had to put the word YOU in every sentence of your response I will put in a couple of replies I made in another thread.

First I looked at the Diamond Princess infection spread as a case study.

The Diamond Princess gives us a pretty good closed environment test case.  Keeping people in a closed up ship with recirculating air almost guaranteed the spread.  They were also in quarantine and tested periodically.

The Diamond Princess had 3700+ passengers and crew exposed.

705 were shown to have been infected. That's less than 20% of the total exposed

6 have died.  That's less than 1% of  the infected and 0.162% of the exposed.

All of the dead have had compromised health before infection.

Then, I actually did address the mutation from the Bat virus.

47 minutes ago, Swimsailor said:

Here's the crux of all this.  Why allow for another deadly virus to take hold?  Makes sense to stop it before it becomes as a common a killer as influenza.

There isn't a damn thing you can do to stop it.

The WHO and the CDC maintain a Flu Virus Surveillance program.  You can read about it on the CDC Website.  https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/overview.htm

This program tracks human infections and attempts to develop flu vaccines for the next flu season.  Sometimes their right and sometimes the miss.  In spite of that Flu is still you still end up with 12 to 60,000 deaths.  Figure below from https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html

There is no way that you can predict or prepare for an animal virus to mutate and become capable of human infection.  This is why Swine Flu, Bird Flu, COVID-19 (Bat Flu) entered the population as a surprise.  When it occurs you follow the same procedures as you would with an existing human virus  but you are starting from scratch.

Unless you are prepared to actively track the mutations of the estimated 320,000 viruses which infect mammals you will just have to wait for an outbreak to be recognized and reported before you can begin to address identification and treatment for individual human patients.



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40 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

The Diamond Princess gives us a pretty good closed environment test case.  Keeping people in a closed up ship with recirculating air almost guaranteed the spread.  They were also in quarantine and tested periodically.

This statement doesn’t really survive scrutiny. Recirculating air will NOT spread droplets, as opposed to very small viruses which can remain detectable for days, even weeks. Measles, smallpox, chickenpox have been shown to infect different wards of the same hospital, but not the flu or TB. Stop the spread of droplets (those infected wear a mask or stay 6 ft away) is generally good enough. Also, wash hands and clean surfaces scrupulously. Strict precautions in food prep & healthcare.

A cruise ship would be a great chance to test how to prevent disease spread by droplet by utilizing  quarantine systems. It is not a method of droplet transmission. If crew are motivated and enough test kits are available, the disease outbreak should be controllable.

The problem with the flu is that infected people are asymptomatic long enough while shedding the virus that it’s difficult to maintain rigorous isolation.  
 

But none of that makes this virus just like the common cold. It’s more deadly, requires more supportive care (such as hi-flow oxygen) and more infectious than the flu making it capable of overwhelming seemingly robust health systems and damaging economies if test kits aren’t widely available and effective quarantine systems are not put in place. It has yet to be seen if America is ready.

Judging by our limited number of test kits available and being led by senior politicians more interested in their political fortunes and willing to spread disinformation for their personal benefit, America is woefully unprepared.

Pence is in the crosshairs. Donald will be forgiven, since the Gröpenfuhrer’s followers are zealots. Pseudochristians are realists.

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18 minutes ago, phillysailor said:
54 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

The Diamond Princess gives us a pretty good closed environment test case.  Keeping people in a closed up ship with recirculating air almost guaranteed the spread.  They were also in quarantine and tested periodically.

This statement doesn’t really survive scrutiny. Recirculating air will NOT spread droplets, as opposed to very small viruses which can remain detectable for days, even weeks. Measles, smallpox, chickenpox have been shown to infect different wards of the same hospital, but not the flu or TB. Stop the spread of droplets (those infected wear a mask or stay 6 ft away) is generally good enough. Also, wash hands and clean surfaces scrupulously. Strict precautions in food prep & healthcare.

A cruise ship would be a great chance to test how to prevent disease spread by droplet by utilizing  quarantine systems. It is not a method of droplet transmission. If crew are motivated and enough test kits are available, the disease outbreak should be controllable.

The problem with the flu is that infected people are asymptomatic long enough while shedding the virus that it’s difficult to maintain rigorous isolation.  
 

But none of that makes this virus just like the common cold. It’s more deadly, requires more supportive care (such as hi-flow oxygen) and more infectious than the flu making it capable of overwhelming seemingly robust health systems and damaging economies if test kits aren’t widely available and effective quarantine systems are not put in place. It has yet to be seen if America is ready.

You have the patience of a saint. Trump said it's just the common cold, and that's that as far as Trumpalos are concerned. Trying to "prove" anything to the contrary just makes you stupid and unpatriotic, to them.

"It's just the common cold" except that it's more contagious, contagious from people with no symptoms, spreads by a slightly different mechanism, and has 20X the mortality rate of the more serious strains of flu (although not so bad as SARS).

All that is quite obvious from the reliable news that's been reported over and over and over. But it's their mantra to say "it's the common cold."

- DSK

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18 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

I figure whoever is behind Q is doing it to out the really wacko morans.

Anyone who believes any of that shit is seriously disturbed and we need to know who they are.

No, It's our way of determining who is going to fill the vacant cabinet positions...  MAGA!!!

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17 hours ago, Recidivist said:

I would be scared knowing that people who espouse that shit are walking around - perhaps in my own neighbourhood.  Is this why Americans are obsessed with guns?

Had a neighbor like that.  Harmless, but wow did he have opinions.  The wifie and his sig other were besties for a while so I had to interact with him.  Best to just let them talk, otherwise they draw you in, and after a few libations you are going full blown crazy trying to change the heart and mind.  (it won't work BTW).  

 

Most, snd I say most...  gun owners are pretty rational and treat their weapons correctly(even keeping the locks on when I handle their toys as I have 0 real gun experience).  Said neighbor would never ever have a gun, so it's the wackjobs that bring their AK downtown and to the post office "Because they can" that you have to be careful with.  

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1 hour ago, phillysailor said:

This statement doesn’t really survive scrutiny. Recirculating air will NOT spread droplets, as opposed to very small viruses which can remain detectable for days, even weeks. Measles, smallpox, chickenpox have been shown to infect different wards of the same hospital, but not the flu or TB. Stop the spread of droplets (those infected wear a mask or stay 6 ft away) is generally good enough. Also, wash hands and clean surfaces scrupulously. Strict precautions in food prep & healthcare.

A cruise ship would be a great chance to test how to prevent disease spread by droplet by utilizing  quarantine systems. It is not a method of droplet transmission. If crew are motivated and enough test kits are available, the disease outbreak should be controllable.

The problem with the flu is that infected people are asymptomatic long enough while shedding the virus that it’s difficult to maintain rigorous isolation.  
 

But none of that makes this virus just like the common cold. It’s more deadly, requires more supportive care (such as hi-flow oxygen) and more infectious than the flu making it capable of overwhelming seemingly robust health systems and damaging economies if test kits aren’t widely available and effective quarantine systems are not put in place. It has yet to be seen if America is ready.

Judging by our limited number of test kits available and being led by senior politicians more interested in their political fortunes and willing to spread disinformation for their personal benefit, America is woefully unprepared.

Pence is in the crosshairs. Donald will be forgiven, since the Gröpenfuhrer’s followers are zealots. Pseudochristians are realists.

Is it your contention that the common cold cannot be spread by a Coronavirus?  If your doctor actually said a Coronavirus is like the common cold that is a fact.

COVID-19 is the actual disease.  It is NOT the designation of the virus.

Here, from the WHO who named it https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/technical-guidance/naming-the-coronavirus-disease-(covid-2019)-and-the-virus-that-causes-it

Naming the coronavirus disease (COVID-19) and the virus that causes it

Official names have been announced for the virus responsible for COVID-19 (previously known as “2019 novel coronavirus”) and the disease it causes.  The official names are:

Disease 

coronavirus disease 
(COVID-19)

Virus 

severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 
(SARS-CoV-2)

Those precautions in your first paragraph are the recommended procedures and are exactly what is required to stop the spread of colds and flu.  With that level of sanitation the figures are what are presented for the Diamond Princess.  Those are not normal conditions of sanitation in China.

As to the Diamond Princess, it gives us a case where a know number of people have had significant exposure and the results of that exposure.  In fact, there were other incidental exposures to Japanese Healthcare and US embassy personnel.  So the percentage of actual cases and deaths would actually be lower than I presented.

I'll tell you what happens on a cruise ship.  There is a hand sanitizer at the entrance to every location that serves food (buffet, dining room, etc) or where you might come into contact with others (Spa, fitness center, etc.).  Any time there is a threat there is a crew member at the entrance asking you to please use it or (where full hand washing stations are available) to wash your hands.

WE DON"T HAVE THE DATA TO MAKE THE ASSUMPTION OF CATASTROPHIC SPREAD THAT YOU ARE ESPOUSING.  Here is something else you might read (but probably won't)

https://www.livescience.com/how-deadly-is-coronavirus-covid-19.html

From the cite

Tracing U.S. spread

Genetic analysis of the virus circulating on the West Coast suggests that COVID-19 has been transmitting through the region for about six weeks. This community spread was not detected earlier for several reasons. First, about 81% of cases do not require hospitalization, according to data from the outbreak in China. People experiencing symptoms such as a mild fever, cough and congestion are unlikely to visit a doctor. Second, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) protocol limited testing to only those with symptoms and a history of travel to an affected region. Finally, there is a lag between virus transmission and fatalities simply because it takes time for the most severe cases to kill. (A World Health Organization report from China found that it took three to six weeks for critical cases to be resolved, either when the patient died or recovered.)

What is not yet clear from the U.S. data is how many people have been infected with the new coronavirus. This number is key for understanding disease severity and the mortality rate — after all, you must know the total number of cases to know what proportion of patients will become severely ill or die. China's best data so far puts the case-fatality rate at 2.3%. But that number may drop with better detection of mild and asymptomatic cases. 

Scientists expect to know more about this number in the coming weeks. Broader testing will help, Paul Biddinger, the vice chairman for emergency preparedness in the emergency medicine department of Massachusetts General Hospital, said in a Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health webcast on March 2. However, testing in the next days to weeks will still likely be limited to a subset of the sickest patients, Biddinger said.

If you are as frightened as you appear to be you need to run down to Home Depot and buy as much plastic sheeting, Tyvek and Duct tape as it takes to seal off your house.

Otherwise you are simply spreading disinformation and fear.  Ant that fear is of the unknown and unproven.

Since you seem to want to mention Trump in every post, you are doing exactly that of which you accuse him.

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Ok, there was a lot of bullshit in that post, and a reasonable cite which not only did I read, but I’ve read (and said) before.

Yes Coronaviruses are implicated in the common cold. This virus is different from those viruses: I think we both agree on that? Likewise, the flu like illness caused COVID-19 is NOT the “common cold” and efforts to label it as such are unhelpful & inaccurate. They can only serve to minimize this disease. 

Your efforts to portray me as running out to buy plastic sheeting and such is pretty weird. I will do my best to up my personal hand washing game, avoid touching my face (that’s proving nearly impossible) and being extra careful around elderly and sicker patients. 

Thst said, if we detect transmissible diseases in our patients, we isolate them in order to protect ourselves and other patients. This epidemic will be no different.

Its gonna cost money, time and effort, but it works. Not testing, throwing our hands up, saying “it’s endemic” so why bother isn’t good medicine. You can trust me not to be infected by your attitude.

And from my understanding, the usual cruise ship protocols you mentioned bear no resemblance to the quarantine onboard the ship in question, where passengers were confined to their rooms and only those in windowless rooms were allowed on deck, but admonished to stay 6’ from others. The quarantine failed for multiple reasons, for instance obviously sick people waited with & were examined in the same small room as healthy people, and the crew continued to bunk and eat in close quarters.

As I said, it was a test of quarantine systems.

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1 hour ago, phillysailor said:

Ok, there was a lot of bullshit in that post, and a reasonable cite which not only did I read, but I’ve read (and said) before.

Yes Coronaviruses are implicated in the common cold. This virus is different from those viruses: I think we both agree on that? Likewise, the flu like illness caused COVID-19 is NOT the “common cold” and efforts to label it as such are unhelpful & inaccurate. They can only serve to minimize this disease. 

Your efforts to portray me as running out to buy plastic sheeting and such is pretty weird. I will do my best to up my personal hand washing game, avoid touching my face (that’s proving nearly impossible) and being extra careful around elderly and sicker patients. 

Thst said, if we detect transmissible diseases in our patients, we isolate them in order to protect ourselves and other patients. This epidemic will be no different.

Its gonna cost money, time and effort, but it works. Not testing, throwing our hands up, saying “it’s endemic” so why bother isn’t good medicine. You can trust me not to be infected by your attitude.

And from my understanding, the usual cruise ship protocols you mentioned bear no resemblance to the quarantine onboard the ship in question, where passengers were confined to their rooms and only those in windowless rooms were allowed on deck, but admonished to stay 6’ from others. The quarantine failed for multiple reasons, for instance obviously sick people waited with & were examined in the same small room as healthy people, and the crew continued to bunk and eat in close quarters.

As I said, it was a test of quarantine systems.

Yup the way the crew was handled was malpractice 101.  The same crew fed the passengers handling thier food meal trays and utensils 

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5 hours ago, Saorsa said:

Is it your contention that the common cold cannot be spread by a Coronavirus? .....    ...   ...

If you are as frightened as you appear to be you need to run down to Home Depot and buy as much plastic sheeting,....   ...

Wow, full-blown jump-off-the-cliff Trumpalo lemming syndrome. Better report this sighting to the CDC

The people who are frightened are the ones who cannot face facts. Or have to post a page of bullshit double talk they don't understand to try and cover up their fear.

- DSK

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On 3/3/2020 at 9:41 PM, Ishmael said:

I'd be happy to beat your children, depending on the reimbursement.

By now they'd kick your ass.

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10 hours ago, Saorsa said:

Is it your contention that the common cold cannot be spread by a Coronavirus?  If your doctor actually said a Coronavirus is like the common cold that is a fact.

COVID-19 is the actual disease.  It is NOT the designation of the virus.

Here, from the WHO who named it https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/technical-guidance/naming-the-coronavirus-disease-(covid-2019)-and-the-virus-that-causes-it

Naming the coronavirus disease (COVID-19) and the virus that causes it

Official names have been announced for the virus responsible for COVID-19 (previously known as “2019 novel coronavirus”) and the disease it causes.  The official names are:

Disease 

coronavirus disease 
(COVID-19)

Virus 

severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 
(SARS-CoV-2)

Those precautions in your first paragraph are the recommended procedures and are exactly what is required to stop the spread of colds and flu.  With that level of sanitation the figures are what are presented for the Diamond Princess.  Those are not normal conditions of sanitation in China.

As to the Diamond Princess, it gives us a case where a know number of people have had significant exposure and the results of that exposure.  In fact, there were other incidental exposures to Japanese Healthcare and US embassy personnel.  So the percentage of actual cases and deaths would actually be lower than I presented.

I'll tell you what happens on a cruise ship.  There is a hand sanitizer at the entrance to every location that serves food (buffet, dining room, etc) or where you might come into contact with others (Spa, fitness center, etc.).  Any time there is a threat there is a crew member at the entrance asking you to please use it or (where full hand washing stations are available) to wash your hands.

WE DON"T HAVE THE DATA TO MAKE THE ASSUMPTION OF CATASTROPHIC SPREAD THAT YOU ARE ESPOUSING.  Here is something else you might read (but probably won't)

https://www.livescience.com/how-deadly-is-coronavirus-covid-19.html

From the cite

Tracing U.S. spread

Genetic analysis of the virus circulating on the West Coast suggests that COVID-19 has been transmitting through the region for about six weeks. This community spread was not detected earlier for several reasons. First, about 81% of cases do not require hospitalization, according to data from the outbreak in China. People experiencing symptoms such as a mild fever, cough and congestion are unlikely to visit a doctor. Second, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) protocol limited testing to only those with symptoms and a history of travel to an affected region. Finally, there is a lag between virus transmission and fatalities simply because it takes time for the most severe cases to kill. (A World Health Organization report from China found that it took three to six weeks for critical cases to be resolved, either when the patient died or recovered.)

What is not yet clear from the U.S. data is how many people have been infected with the new coronavirus. This number is key for understanding disease severity and the mortality rate — after all, you must know the total number of cases to know what proportion of patients will become severely ill or die. China's best data so far puts the case-fatality rate at 2.3%. But that number may drop with better detection of mild and asymptomatic cases. 

Scientists expect to know more about this number in the coming weeks. Broader testing will help, Paul Biddinger, the vice chairman for emergency preparedness in the emergency medicine department of Massachusetts General Hospital, said in a Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health webcast on March 2. However, testing in the next days to weeks will still likely be limited to a subset of the sickest patients, Biddinger said.

If you are as frightened as you appear to be you need to run down to Home Depot and buy as much plastic sheeting, Tyvek and Duct tape as it takes to seal off your house.

Otherwise you are simply spreading disinformation and fear.  Ant that fear is of the unknown and unproven.

Since you seem to want to mention Trump in every post, you are doing exactly that of which you accuse him.

The Minister has a new calling. Why don’t you resurrect the sock to go with your newfound faux-rage?

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I have to admit I'm not very good at Maths, so could someone please confirm if my understanding of this is correct. (percentages are example only)

So far WHO are saying the mortality rate is around 3%

That's 3% of those who actually have been tested positive, the number of cases undetected is unknown.

(Some people seem to be under the impression that 3% of the population are going to die in the next 12 months.)

of that 3%, 14% are over eighty and 10% are over 65.

that's 24% of those over 65 die.

To me that means that 66% of those who die are under 65.

BUT..what we read and what everyone is saying id that it's the over 60s or those with other serious health conditions are the people at risk.

Happily children don't seem to get very sick.

Can someone please explain the numbers?

a venn diagram would be even better.

 

on topic, I've had someone tell me the earth is flat because they can see the edge from 30.000 ft

And the sun goes around the earth because they can see it moving from east to west.

not the same person either. :blink:

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24 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

I have to admit I'm not very good at Maths, so could someone please confirm if my understanding of this is correct. (percentages are example only)

So far WHO are saying the mortality rate is around 3%

That's 3% of those who actually have been tested positive, the number of cases undetected is unknown.

(Some people seem to be under the impression that 3% of the population are going to die in the next 12 months.)

of that 3%, 14% are over eighty and 10% are over 65.

that's 24% of those over 65 die.

To me that means that 66% of those who die are under 65.

BUT..what we read and what everyone is saying id that it's the over 60s or those with other serious health conditions are the people at risk.

Happily children don't seem to get very sick.

Can someone please explain the numbers?

a venn diagram would be even better.

 

on topic, I've had someone tell me the earth is flat because they can see the edge from 30.000 ft

And the sun goes around the earth because they can see it moving from east to west.

not the same person either. :blink:

You’re right, that’s not the way to interpret. Example, say 20% of the folks over 80 die, and 10% of 60-80 (made up numbers). You can’t add the numbers, you need to know how many people are in each group. Probably more people in the 60-80 group, right? So, you may have more deaths in that group even though the rate is less.

lets say there are 100 people over 80 who get sick, 20 die

1000 people between 60-80, at 10% 100 people die

so 120 people total die of 1100. 120/1100 = 10.9% rate over those 2 groups combined.  Just keep doing that math for all groups, altogether.

and I believe the 3% is based on what they think are actual cases, using maths again to estimate...

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Thanks for trying :( 

I'm about 100% visual spacialspatial ...cant visualise that though I'm sure you are right.

I havent seen any hard numbers for deaths in each group

 made up numbers

0-10=0

10-20=2

20-30=5

30-45=10

45-55=15

55-65=40

65=80=200

ect

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AGE
DEATH RATE
confirmed cases
DEATH RATE
all cases
80+ years old
21.9%
14.8%
70-79 years old
 
8.0%
60-69 years old
 
3.6%
50-59 years old
 
1.3%
40-49 years old
 
0.4%
30-39 years old
 
0.2%
20-29 years old
 
0.2%
10-19 years old
 
0.2%
0-9 years old
 
no fatalities

 

*Death Rate = (number of deaths / number of cases) = probability of dying if infected by the virus (%). This probability differs depending on the age group. The percentages shown below do not have to add up to 100%, as they do NOT represent share of deaths by age group. Rather, it represents, for a person in a given age group, the risk of dying if infected with COVID-19.

So does the above mean that 50% of all cases could have been over 50. and the "milder" cased tend to be younger?

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8 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

I have to admit I'm not very good at Maths,

You're right.

Keep it simple - if you are over 65 you have a much greater risk of dying from it.

I saw a bar chart of age groups and Corona a while ago - the death rate really spikes in late middle age. Prior to that it is a pretty low risk.

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6 hours ago, Shortforbob said:
AGE
DEATH RATE
confirmed cases
DEATH RATE
all cases
80+ years old
21.9%
14.8%
70-79 years old
 
8.0%
60-69 years old
 
3.6%
50-59 years old
 
1.3%
40-49 years old
 
0.4%
30-39 years old
 
0.2%
20-29 years old
 
0.2%
10-19 years old
 
0.2%
0-9 years old
 
no fatalities

 

*Death Rate = (number of deaths / number of cases) = probability of dying if infected by the virus (%). This probability differs depending on the age group. The percentages shown below do not have to add up to 100%, as they do NOT represent share of deaths by age group. Rather, it represents, for a person in a given age group, the risk of dying if infected with COVID-19.

So does the above mean that 50% of all cases could have been over 50. and the "milder" cased tend to be younger?

Actually, you cannot tell who's getting infected from the above data. All you can say is that if you're older, you have a higher risk of dying if you catch this bug.  You can kinda say "Well, must be some old people balanced out by young people" but you could get a 3.2% average from all sorts of populations in each bucket.

But even the 10-19 group is higher mortality than the normal flu. It may not seem like it's too much, but it would be a massive shock to the system to see that many young people die of a respiratory virus.

 

 

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On 3/3/2020 at 1:50 PM, Gouvernail said:

This morning, I endured two hours of an old classmate telling me about what Q says.’

His was the single most insane series of conspiratorial combined with looney tunes religious absurdity I have ever encountered. 
 

**There are hundreds of Earth like planets in this galaxy that were formed billions of years ago by satan and Donald Trump is God’s chosen one who  will soon be putting Jesus back in charge of this planet. 
**NASA faked the moon landing

**Obama didn’t go to Harvard or Columbia. Michelle is a man. The Obamas are a homosexual couple 

**Hillary eats children

**Two thirds of our Governors, Senators, and Congressmen will be attested and sent to Guantanamo after Gropenfuhrer’s second term begins

**The war in Iraq was about stealing their gold and Hillary has it

**the war in Iraq was to steal the some sort of stargate that is now at Area 51

**we haven’t built any new rockets since the Saturns because the military is switching entirely to antigravity 

**We have the capability to travel to the center of the galaxy in about two minutes and people have been doing that since the early seventies. 
 

**All sorts of people are in on a huge pedophile ring... he named pretty much every politician other than God's chosen one including Pence and the Bush clan. He rattled of a series of the very most successful actors. 
 

**every one of my questions about Gropenfuhrer’s behavior were deflected with “Aren’t  all humans flawed?”

========
I listened while my phone sat on speaker and I worked on other tasks. His Unquestioning devotion to Q and to Gropenfuhrer was fascinating me. 
For some reason this sort of whack job and others like white  supremacists are compelled to be faithful to the Gropenfuhrer. 
   In fact, the way I brought a rapid end to his call was to start asking questions whose answers absolutely had to contradict and disrupt his programmed views. 
     He rapidly became agitated and after just a few questions he was gone from my phone. 

 

I knew it!  Trump’s a goddamn alien!

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3 hours ago, Raz'r said:

Actually, you cannot tell who's getting infected from the above data. All you can say is that if you're older, you have a higher risk of dying if you catch this bug.  You can kinda say "Well, must be some old people balanced out by young people" but you could get a 3.2% average from all sorts of populations in each bucket.

But even the 10-19 group is higher mortality than the normal flu. It may not seem like it's too much, but it would be a massive shock to the system to see that many young people die of a respiratory virus.

 

 

Actually, the 2nd wave of the 1918 flu did exactly that.  This is not pleasant reading-

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK22148/

 

 

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The gentleman I did my apprenticeship with was 10 or 12 during the 1918 flu, and his parents kept him out of school during the 2nd wave.  He told me about watching out of their front windows and seeing the death carts, with his friend’s bodies on them,  being pulled by.  Never could shake that vision in my brain, especially after going through one of the late 50’s epidemics as a kid.  No carts, thank god,  just the odd classmate not coming back to school.  In a farming/ orchard town of 6800 people that was a big deal.  Seemed like whole town was sick.  I suffered from pneumonia and a really high fever in that one-  my parents were scared shitless, but hospital was out of the question.  That was a fun year, what with measles parties, being told not to drink irradiated milk, duck and cover, the town almost burning down, and the John Birch Society running amok, etc.  Ah the good old days......

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19 minutes ago, Amati said:

The gentleman I did my apprenticeship with was 10 or 12 during the 1918 flu, and his parents kept him out of school during the 2nd wave.  He told me about watching out of their front windows and seeing the death carts, with his friend’s bodies on them,  being pulled by.  Never could shake that vision in my brain, especially after going through one of the late 50’s epidemics as a kid.  No carts, thank god,  just the odd classmate not coming back to school.  In a farming/ orchard town of 6800 people that was a big deal.  Seemed like whole town was sick.  I suffered from pneumonia and a really high fever in that one-  my parents were scared shitless, but hospital was out of the question.  That was a fun year, what with measles parties, being told not to drink irradiated milk, duck and cover, the town almost burning down, and the John Birch Society running amok, etc.  Ah the good old days......

Thanks you've put that vision in mine now.

This vision thing can be highly contagious 

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I've just read some of the Wikipedia story about QAnon. 

With a few personal modifications, it would all make perfect sense.

Personal modifications would have to include: Some way of permanently removing my entire education, sense of logic, and finely-tuned bullshit detector. A few carefully-placed and correctly weighted blows to the skull with a 4lb lump hammer. A large continuous dose of a carefully-calibrated mix of LSD and methamphetamine, to aid the feverish delusions. A deep sense of personal helplessness and worthlessness. An obsession with guns, aliens and pedophilia.

They walk among us......

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8 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

Thanks you've put that vision in mine now.

This vision thing can be highly contagious 

Sorry.  Everything our civilization, our science, has worked hard to learn, and it only takes how many of the self indulgent to make that irrelevant?   The dictator’s autocratic playbook, it’s seductive luxury deadening reaction time to one ‘supremely important’ individual’s panicky crawl while pitiless biochemistry sprints across the globe in a 1:4 projection, and self serving rationalizations construct insane paralyzing spiderwebs at the speed of light.  

I guess I’m feeling grumpy today.  
 

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7 hours ago, Happy said:

I've just read some of the Wikipedia story about QAnon. 

With a few personal modifications, it would all make perfect sense.

Personal modifications would have to include: Some way of permanently removing my entire education, sense of logic, and finely-tuned bullshit detector. A few carefully-placed and correctly weighted blows to the skull with a 4lb lump hammer. A large continuous dose of a carefully-calibrated mix of LSD and methamphetamine, to aid the feverish delusions. A deep sense of personal helplessness and worthlessness. An obsession with guns, aliens and pedophilia.

They walk among us......

Just another name for Bullshitters. 

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On 3/3/2020 at 1:50 PM, Gouvernail said:

This morning, I endured two hours of an old classmate telling me about what Q says.’

His was the single most insane series of conspiratorial combined with looney tunes religious absurdity I have ever encountered. 
 

**There are hundreds of Earth like planets in this galaxy that were formed billions of years ago by satan and Donald Trump is God’s chosen one who  will soon be putting Jesus back in charge of this planet. 
**NASA faked the moon landing

**Obama didn’t go to Harvard or Columbia. Michelle is a man. The Obamas are a homosexual couple 

**Hillary eats children

**Two thirds of our Governors, Senators, and Congressmen will be attested and sent to Guantanamo after Gropenfuhrer’s second term begins

**The war in Iraq was about stealing their gold and Hillary has it

**the war in Iraq was to steal the some sort of stargate that is now at Area 51

**we haven’t built any new rockets since the Saturns because the military is switching entirely to antigravity 

**We have the capability to travel to the center of the galaxy in about two minutes and people have been doing that since the early seventies. 
 

**All sorts of people are in on a huge pedophile ring... he named pretty much every politician other than God's chosen one including Pence and the Bush clan. He rattled of a series of the very most successful actors. 
 

**every one of my questions about Gropenfuhrer’s behavior were deflected with “Aren’t  all humans flawed?”

========
I listened while my phone sat on speaker and I worked on other tasks. His Unquestioning devotion to Q and to Gropenfuhrer was fascinating me. 
For some reason this sort of whack job and others like white  supremacists are compelled to be faithful to the Gropenfuhrer. 
   In fact, the way I brought a rapid end to his call was to start asking questions whose answers absolutely had to contradict and disrupt his programmed views. 
     He rapidly became agitated and after just a few questions he was gone from my phone. 

 

I was at a bar the other night and heard some Q talk-  the one that stopped me mid sip was that Xi and Trump are in the Coronavirus together to get rid of Older Citizens to Reduce the burden of retired folk.  At that point I was really glad I hadn’t joined in any conversation with them.  We moved to a table.

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20 minutes ago, Amati said:

I was at a bar the other night and heard some Q talk-  the one that stopped me mid sip was that Xi and Trump are in the Coronavirus together to get rid of Older Citizens to Reduce the burden of retired folk.  At that point I was really glad I hadn’t joined in any conversation with them.  We moved to a table.

President Trump is "older", and hardly a picture of health.  

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21 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

President Trump is "older", and hardly a picture of health.  

Same with Xi.  It was a moment!  I can’t express how impressed I was with their assertions....;)

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20 hours ago, Amati said:

The gentleman I did my apprenticeship with was 10 or 12 during the 1918 flu, and his parents kept him out of school during the 2nd wave.  He told me about watching out of their front windows and seeing the death carts, with his friend’s bodies on them,  being pulled by.  Never could shake that vision in my brain, especially after going through one of the late 50’s epidemics as a kid.  No carts, thank god,  just the odd classmate not coming back to school.  In a farming/ orchard town of 6800 people that was a big deal.  Seemed like whole town was sick.  I suffered from pneumonia and a really high fever in that one-  my parents were scared shitless, but hospital was out of the question.  That was a fun year, what with measles parties, being told not to drink irradiated milk, duck and cover, the town almost burning down, and the John Birch Society running amok, etc.  Ah the good old days......

They were trying to fluoridate the water too.

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I personally am acquainted with three Ph.D.'s who believe most of that crazy shit. 

It's really pretty frightening 

It's like if I told them that the force of gravity at earth's surface is 25 ft/sec-squared 

Ridiculously easily disproved by observation 

But they never check into the bogosity of Uranium One, the emails, the Clinton Foundation, and etc. 

Looking at the hate in their eyes, I think they could shoot me without much of a problem. 

I think we really underestimate the grievous harm that hate radio and TV have done to the country

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It shouldn't be surprising or shocking at all. 

There are billions of people who believe the magical impossible bullshit that makes up the narrative of most of the world's major (and minor, and just plain weird) religions.

And many of them really hate anyone who disagrees. Religious wars have killed many more people than the plague, the flu, and mosquitos. 

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4 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

They should demand refunds of their tuition.

Depends where they got their education.  Plenty of bullshit institutions.  The President used to own and operate one variant.  Until it was exposed as a fraud and he got nailed.

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1 minute ago, Ishmael said:
21 hours ago, phill_nz said:

 

That was a statement, not a question.

dam .... so his secrets out then

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8 hours ago, Bus Driver said:

Depends where they got their education.  Plenty of bullshit institutions.  The President used to own and operate one variant.  Until it was exposed as a fraud and he got nailed.

It doesn't matter where they got their "education" - it was a failure.

An Englishman whose name I can't recall once said words to the effect that the purpose of an education was to allow you to determine when the other fellow was talking rot.

By that measure their PhD's are worthless.

I was more educated after elementary school.

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