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Help me find my next boat: family coastal cruiser for ~$100k


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Hi all!  

After almost 5 years with the First 405, wife and I decided it was time for a change and I put her up casually for private sale & just took a deposit on her at a fair price.  She's in survey on Wednesday, so a close is likely in the next couple weeks.  I'm poking around more seriously now & thought I'd start collecting advice from the stable geniuses on this forum.  Enjoy my dissertation!  

We listed the F405 because my three girls are getting bigger (6, 9, 11 now) and it's become clear that while *I* put a high priority on sailing performance, everyone else just wants a comfortable way to be together on the water.  Everyone hates heeling.  These criteria are leading me to look seriously at boats I would have scoffed at in earlier years.

Use case: easy daysailing with 6-10, overnighting with 5-9, summer Pacific coastal cruising for 2-10 weeks with 5.  Ready by late summer.  

Budget: trying to stay around $100k all-in including any refit work.  Have more, but don't want to spend it.  I'm handy, but time-constrained.  

Goals are:

- Interior that can sleep 5 in cabins (3 cabin or master plus one three-berth cabin).  We are used to smaller spaces than most (live in 1400sqft house).  6'2" headroom.

- Ample shaded cockpit free of lines, traveler, etc.  Ideally I can tack the boat without moving from the helm with 6-8 others aboard

- Motion comfort at anchor and in our normal Pacific swell.  This is tough to describe I know, but I know it when I feel it.  

- Simple systems: the F405 had a composting head, almost no electronics, and two through-hulls.  

Candidates (as of today): 

Kaufman 47: this whole thing started when I saw one for sale locally & started a thread about it here.  She's beautiful and fast, but needs an interior refit below and a significantly modified deck layout to meet my criterial.  Would need to come down a lot in price.  She was listed for $89k, taken off market by an offer to buy (sight unseen) at ~$75k, but the buyer has backed out before survey.  

Cal 2-46: I never would have looked at a boat like this before, but the layout is just amazing & wife loves it.  Looks like a fantastic Catalina boat, and ready for going further afield if we got more ambitious.  This particular example has the galley down, which is vastly better & creates a massive open saloon.  Interior is *great*.  Lots and lots of tanks, hoses and manifolds.  Old.  Great big 4.236 spinning a massive 26" 4-blade Martec, but the engine side not pictured has salt crystals on the heat exchanger (pinhole leaks I assume), and a lot of old clamps and hoses.  Running rigging needs to be completely redone (wire halyards & winches!).  More exterior wood than I'd like (I'd like none).  https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1977/cal-2-46-3619031/

Lagoon 35ccc: Baby cat, oddly similar in useable space to the 2-46.  In great shape.  Tankage is low (might need watermaker) but I liked it a lot more than I thought I would, and 1/3 the displacement of the 2-46 means everything is simpler.  Much much less load capacity than the 2-46 but I think we could make it work - comments?  https://sandiego.craigslist.org/nsd/boa/d/san-diego-1996-lagoon-35-ccc/7069655500.html

20 year-old French 45-50' 3-cabin monohulls: The obvious choice.  Finding one in good shape on the West Coast is more challenging than I'd thought.  There's a nice Dufour 45 Classic in LA but a bit over my range.  There are also a few ex-charter boats like this one with lots and lots of heads.  Lots of wing keels and in-mast furling mains which I don't like, but they'd still be faster than the 2-46 or 35ccc I suspect!  

If I could imagine the perfect boat it'd probably be an older lightweight but well-built 40' cat (Woods, Simpson, or even some of the 90's production boats), but these are very hard to find here.  I see a lot of good stuff in the Caribbean but don't know if it's practical to contemplate bringing one over; I just don't have the time.  

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Center cockpits like the C 2-46 seem the thing for SoCal coastal! A roundtable at Two Harbors had several owners with families who just loved the sense of private space, visibility for maneuvers, and clear cockpit. (Of course, nearly all of them confessed they motored over from the mainland because it was too windy/not windy enuf/family doesn't like heeling.) Burly engine, lots of diesel tankage, and a willingness to be a trawler-on-demand opens up your options. :)

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57 minutes ago, Diarmuid said:

Center cockpits like the C 2-46 seem the thing for SoCal coastal! A roundtable at Two Harbors had several owners with families who just loved the sense of private space, visibility for maneuvers, and clear cockpit. (Of course, nearly all of them confessed they motored over from the mainland because it was too windy/not windy enuf/family doesn't like heeling.) Burly engine, lots of diesel tankage, and a willingness to be a trawler-on-demand opens up your options. :)

Yeah, that's the appeal - don't tell anyone but I spent a fair bit of time looking at powerboats before coming back to my senses.  The 2-46 seems to sail better than most motorsailers, and motor much more efficiently than most of the powerboats (I've heard 0.6gph at 6.5kts, which is fantastic compared to the 2-3nmpg of the more efficient displacement trawlers).  And trawlers suck for daysailing.  

Getting to Catalina from SD is realistically all motoring.  Back is all motoring and downwind, which I think either the 2-46 or Lagoon 35 would do well in.  

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You're 'on track' for the right concept.  There should be any number of Cal 2-46's around on the west coast.  Keep looking for one.  There's several up here in the NW corner of Washington state (don't know whether they are for sale...).  When the wife 'loves' it, well, it's a mistake to ignore that reality.  Much better to have her support for the inevitable bills and time commitments.

I think I'm looking for a similar solution but 'may' have the luxury of a larger budget..... she wants something this summer!

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That Cal 2-46 looks like it would be good for living aboard.  As far as sailing goes, if it's 14+ kts with the wind aft of 70 true, you might be able to turn the engine off.  If you don't mind the engine rumble, have at it, cuz I suspect you will be motoring almost all the time.

BUT...

If the wife is set on it..... well, maybe a powerboat with a mast ain't all bad.

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1 hour ago, Veeger said:

You're 'on track' for the right concept.  There should be any number of Cal 2-46's around on the west coast.  Keep looking for one.  There's several up here in the NW corner of Washington state (don't know whether they are for sale...).  When the wife 'loves' it, well, it's a mistake to ignore that reality.  Much better to have her support for the inevitable bills and time commitments.

I think I'm looking for a similar solution but 'may' have the luxury of a larger budget..... she wants something this summer!

Thanks - interested to see where you head next.  Any comments on the Lagoon 35 vs 2-46 based on your experience with cats?  I know they're about as different in form as two boats can be, but as I mentioned, oddly similar in actual useable space (tankage/storage aside). 

Wife loved the Lagoon as well, and really loves the idea of no heeling.  

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You may have to do some work, but you might find a Lagoon TPI, older Catana, older Fontaine-Pajot (f.ex. the Casamance), older Leopard. You might be happier with the performance, comfort and get a bigger boat.

 In re: composting head, I expect you’ll be installing that yourself regardless what you buy

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40 minutes ago, SASSAFRASS said:

What about one of these guys

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1986/kelly-peterson-46-3529150/

Seem to check most of the boxes in the right budget

Thanks - looks like it's just 2 double cabins though.  Also none on the West Coast.  

8 minutes ago, LAZY LIGHTNING II said:

I vote the Kaufman, I'm very happy with Lazy Lightning II.

Tell me more!  Not too many of them out there!

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Only 2 cabins on this version, but here's a Hanse in San Pedro that should sail better than your average bear:

https://dicksimonyachts.com/brokerage-boats-for-sale/1796-40-hanse-400-2006-floretta-g.html

Three doubles and a single, tho some bunks are in the salon.  Might talk 'em down from $140k?

What sort of ownership cost premium (mooring, docking, haulout) does a multihull incur in SoCal?

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17 minutes ago, Max Rockatansky said:

You may have to do some work, but you might find a Lagoon TPI, older Catana, older Fontaine-Pajot (f.ex. the Casamance), older Leopard. You might be happier with the performance, comfort and get a bigger boat.

 In re: composting head, I expect you’ll be installing that yourself regardless what you buy

Yea, the girls might not like the jerky motion of a small cat any more than they like the heeling monohull. 

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The Kaufman are built very well and are a go anywhere boat.  I saw my boat for the first time in Tahiti.  She continued on to New Zealand and Australia.  I bought her in Seattle keep her there for a number of years. Now in Long Beach.  She is very sea kind and sails well.  Very comfortable for my wife and myself and two cats, and guests have lived and cruised very well on easily.  I know two others who have them including John Kretschmer who writes about sailing, and teaches people how to sail/cruise on Quetzal.  I have seen three Kaufman 47 before I bought this one. 

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1 hour ago, LAZY LIGHTNING II said:

The Kaufman are built very well and are a go anywhere boat.  I saw my boat for the first time in Tahiti.  She continued on to New Zealand and Australia.  I bought her in Seattle keep her there for a number of years. Now in Long Beach.  She is very sea kind and sails well.  Very comfortable for my wife and myself and two cats, and guests have lived and cruised very well on easily.  I know two others who have them including John Kretschmer who writes about sailing, and teaches people how to sail/cruise on Quetzal.  I have seen three Kaufman 47 before I bought this one. 

Gorgeous!  I see she has been converted to a sloop rig with the cutter stay removed, same as the one down here.  Do you ever miss the cutter stays'l?  That's one of the things I was concerned with.  The other is the traveler, which is in the cockpit - all the others I've seen are like yours, with mid-boom sheeting.  Probably not too big a deal to relocate.  I know about Quetzal; one of the reasons for my interest.  

2 hours ago, Diarmuid said:

Only 2 cabins on this version, but here's a Hanse in San Pedro that should sail better than your average bear:

Has to have berths in cabins for 5 - current boat is a 40-footer with 2 cabins that sails really well.  She'd give me a bit more volume but not worth the cost to switch.  

2 hours ago, GBeron said:

You might want to take a look at this. Same hull as the Kelly-Peterson but has a different deck/interior design. And it’s in San Diego. (No affiliation, I just like this boat.)

Also only berths for 4 in cabins.  And probably no teak decks allowed, though the boat looks great.  

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As a sailboat/cruiser, the Kaufman seems to be a good boat.  The Lagoon 35 is a bit of an odd duck.  Somewhat narrow for its size but perhaps better than a Gemini.  If you like it, it could work but mostly as a weekender, summer va-cay type boat in your neck of the woods.  I think you'll probably be happier with a monohull.  Bigger, heavier ones like the Kaufman will be a pretty comfy ride compared to your soon-to-be 'ex' boat.  If you can enjoy the 60's retro interiors (pretty basic) the Cal 2-46 would do pretty well.  Take care of it and you won't lose too much $$$ on it as the depreciation has been pretty well wrung out of those.  Look for one that's had some money put into it.

Ultimately, in monohulls, I think longer length in general, will get you your desired results.  Slip fees are accumulate over time but are cheaper for a while over trading boats and paying broker fees every few years.

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You mentioned a french boat as a possibiltiy. The newer ones have more hull volume so you can get away with less length, and lower cost. You might look for a deal on an early jeanneau 409 or similar. The european ones are at your price point, I am not sure about US prices. They made a 3 cabin model with a lot of interior space, and not all had furling mains. The cockpit is ideal for your use, wide open with all controls led back to the dual steering stations. I sailed one in light air before deciding on a smaller boat, it did better than I would have predicted. They sold a lot in the PNW with deep keels, I recall lead was an option but I suspect most are iron.

The downside is lots of complex systems, not always well implemented. Interior quality is marginal, but the kids are going to beat it up anyway.

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All of the the Kaufmans' were custom. Mine was always a sloop rigged.  I also have never seen another one with opening ports in the side of the cabin.  I do like the mid boom sheeting for a cruising boat. I seen it done across the cockpit bridge but it would be in way of dogger/ Bimini.

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On 3/6/2020 at 1:32 PM, Diarmuid said:

What sort of ownership cost premium (mooring, docking, haulout) does a multihull incur in SoCal?

It's a premium for sure, but it really pales in comparison to the purchase price differential.  The Lagoon 35, for example, was paying for a 40' slip.  Mooring is also a possibility for very very cheap, although with less convenience.  

Regardless, it's not the slip fees, it's the 2-3x purchase price.  There's almost nothing for sale on the west coast for under $400k.  

On 3/6/2020 at 6:14 PM, steele said:

You mentioned a french boat as a possibiltiy. The newer ones have more hull volume so you can get away with less length, and lower cost. You might look for a deal on an early jeanneau 409 or similar. The european ones are at your price point, I am not sure about US prices. They made a 3 cabin model with a lot of interior space, and not all had furling mains. The cockpit is ideal for your use, wide open with all controls led back to the dual steering stations. I sailed one in light air before deciding on a smaller boat, it did better than I would have predicted. They sold a lot in the PNW with deep keels, I recall lead was an option but I suspect most are iron.

The downside is lots of complex systems, not always well implemented. Interior quality is marginal, but the kids are going to beat it up anyway.

We're actually chartering a 3-cabin Jeanneau 409 in Puerto Vallarta for a week starting on the 26th, so that'll certainly help inform our analysis!

The newer fat-assed boats with walk-through open transoms tick a lot of boxes for us, but I'm eager to see how she feels in a swell compared to our F405, and would love to hear from those who can compare that to something with more length and displacement like the Cal 2-46.  And even with shoal draft, they'll sail rings around the 2-46

Even an ex-charter Beneteau 46 or 50 seems like a lot less of a project than the 2-46 with its 45-year old aluminum water and fuel tanks, crumbling 70's adhesives, etc.  Even with shoal draft they'll sail rings around the 2-46.  Lots of engine hours and way too many heads, but most have no exterior teak, have been maintained, and have relatively simple systems (often no HVAC, gensets, water makers, solar, complex electronics, etc.)  Not as funky & unique as the 2-46 but seem really functional for what we want to do.  

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The Lagoon 35 was very much a beam compromised boat to find in mono slips like the Gemini cats. They were not great sailors and the asking price seems high compared to the Cal. French 3 cabin sailboats in the mid 45' range ARE the rational choice!

You won't find a 40' Woods cat with lots of room; that's not Richard's style. His boats are much lighter and leaner and few were production boats.

I also would keep my eye open for older Fountaine Pajot cats in the 37- 40' size. Like this Athena (you would have to pay duty to import it I bet)

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1998/fountaine-pajot-athena-38-3523297/

A delivery / Panama canal might cost $10K?

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This is very old news and perhaps things are different now, but a friend of my father had a post-charter boat back on the day. It had been designed for the trade wind charter spots, and was a bit of a dog for a west Florida family boat.

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1 hour ago, SemiSalt said:

This is very old news and perhaps things are different now, but a friend of my father had a post-charter boat back on the day. It had been designed for the trade wind charter spots, and was a bit of a dog for a west Florida family boat.

Agreed.  Most of the older (cheaper) cats were designed for the charter market.  For SoCal light airs, it'll be a motor boat.  (perhaps not a bad motorboat, but a mo-bo for sure)  An older one off that had performance in mind will likely not suit the fam.

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9 hours ago, Zonker said:

I also would keep my eye open for older Fountaine Pajot cats in the 37- 40' size. Like this Athena (you would have to pay duty to import it I bet)

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1998/fountaine-pajot-athena-38-3523297/

A delivery / Panama canal might cost $10K?

Thanks - I just pinged them & they quoted roughly $14k for delivery and $6k for duties.  She's a lot prettier than the Lagoon 35 for sure.  How much of a dog would she be really, with a SA/D reported as 27?  Maybe not great upwind with the mini-keels but seems like she'd scoot on a reach.  Certainly compared to the 2-46 with a SA/D around 12!  

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On further reflection, look for a 3 cabin Catalina 42. It’s almost perfect for what you want to do, easy to find and holds its resale value well. I prefer the 2 cabin model but for coastal SoCal cruising they’re hard to beat. The only possible downside is that it’s just a little too long to fit in a 40’ mooring. The MkI is available for under $100K and the MkII is $95-130K.

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3 hours ago, GBeron said:

On further reflection, look for a 3 cabin Catalina 42. It’s almost perfect for what you want to do, easy to find and holds its resale value well. I prefer the 2 cabin model but for coastal SoCal cruising they’re hard to beat. The only possible downside is that it’s just a little too long to fit in a 40’ mooring. The MkI is available for under $100K and the MkII is $95-130K.

here you go. https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1989/catalina-42-3590108/

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Cal 2-46 is a super solid boat. If you are cruising, what's the difference in 3-5 days in getting to your destination? It's your house, after all. OOOOHHH I got to Tahiti 4hours faster and $300 cheaper on 'Spirit Airlines". Wait... I have to sleep with a 27 inch pitch seat that reclines 9 degrees?!? All the way to NZ and beyond!?!

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4 hours ago, Raz'r said:

I have always liked the 42's best of all the Catalinas ever made, and you're right - reasonably priced & plentiful down here.  I think we'll have a good sense of whether it's "enough boat" after a week on the Jenneau 409 at the end of this month. 

After getting excited about the FP Athena Zonker recommended above I figured out that headroom in the galley appears to be around 5'8".  Looking at the pics closely appears to confirm.  No wonder she looks so sleek and sexy for a 38' boat... I'm 6'2" so this appears to be a fatal flaw (present in all the older FP's it seems).  

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Yes the galley headroom is limited. I've been on one (6'-1") and couldn't stand within 12" of the stove with out bending my neck.

I think the Tobago 35 was better because of the galley position. They would sail much better than the Lagoon but were not built quite as robustly. They are a big 35' cat, though storage was limited because they were really charter oriented. 

No way the Lagoon 35 has a SA/D ratio >20 unless somebody is quoting empty weight. Most monohull displacement quoted were always with a payload of crew, food, 1/2 full fuel and water. Lots of multi specs published light ship weights to appear lighter.

5 hours ago, Caca Cabeza said:

If you are cruising, what's the difference in 3-5 days in getting to your destination?

3-5 nights nice sleep in a flat anchorage? Better chance of avoiding bad weather.

We did a 2 or 3 night passage from the Marquesas to an atoll in the Tuamotos. We were slightly faster than a FP Bahia 46 and lots faster than a Waquiez Praetorian 35 and a CS 36 who all left same time as us. We got through the pass before sunset, and had a nice sleep. Our cruising buddies all had to heave to and wait for morning (or later in the afternoon the next day for the monohulls). Lots to like about a faster boat.

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13 minutes ago, Zonker said:

Yes the galley headroom is limited. I've been on one (6'-1") and couldn't stand within 12" of the stove with out bending my neck.

I think the Tobago 35 was better because of the galley position. They would sail much better than the Lagoon but were not built quite as robustly. They are a big 35' cat, though storage was limited because they were really charter oriented. 

No way the Lagoon 35 has a SA/D ratio >20 unless somebody is quoting empty weight. Most monohull displacement quoted were always with a payload of crew, food, 1/2 full fuel and water. Lots of multi specs published light ship weights to appear lighter.

3-5 nights nice sleep in a flat anchorage? Better chance of avoiding bad weather.

We did a 2 or 3 night passage from the Marquesas to an atoll in the Tuamotos. We were slightly faster than a FP Bahia 46 and lots faster than a Waquiez Praetorian 35 and a CS 36 who all left same time as us. We got through the pass before sunset, and had a nice sleep. Our cruising buddies all had to heave to and wait for morning (or later in the afternoon the next day for the monohulls). Lots to like about a faster boat.

Lagoon 35 SA/D on Sailboatdata is 17;  The 20+ I was quoting was for the Athena.  

Tobago 35 looks great but very few for sale and headroom still looks pretty limited.  I see a few of the newer Mahe 36's listed at reasonable prices, and they are reported to have much better headroom than the older FPs; there are a couple in the local charter service so I could spend some time on one for a few hundred $$ if its worthwhile.  Wife loves the idea of a cat, but I've never been on a 35-45' before so don't really know what to expect.  A 55' FP I sailed on was great, but...

Fast boats are great.  I think a Beneteau 50 might be faster than the Lagoon 35 or Mahe 36 though, and probably (?) more comfortable as well.  

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6 minutes ago, Zonker said:

Faster yes but the drinks are more likely to spill...

Here's a tiny production built Woods Flicka with one bad engine for $55k claiming 6'4" headroom.  https://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/84055  

Even has a composting head already installed!  

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Are the girls helping you shop? I ask because most girls I know like to have things like clean underwear and towels. Smallish cats don't usually have much storage space for things like clothes. There is no bilge so everything mechanical invades normal storage spaces. I like cats but I don't mind roughing it... I helped deliver a mid thirty something PDQ up the east coast years ago. Carry on luggage was limited to 1 gym bag per person. It was also your pillow. Most girls wouldn't like that. 

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The Flika was built as a 35 and were later extended to 37. A bit heavier than a typical Woods cat,  probably comparable to a French 35' cat in performance.

Pretty roomy. Rig on the smaller side

Very good price and well equipped (new sails especially). You would want to replace the engine before leaving Grenada but its a good place to get work done. 

Its a contender. 

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33 minutes ago, socalrider said:

.... and it’s under contract :( seller will keep in touch if it falls through.

TPI Lagoon 37 in Miami looks good and confirmed still available.  Like the galley down.

https://m.sailboatlistings.com/view/84594

And a similar TPI 42 - https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1991/lagoon-tpi-42-3526039/

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Your price keeps going up :).  Look at the title of the thread:  family coastal cruiser for ~$100k

I've sailed past a fully loaded Lagoon 380 (family of 5). She was slow but maybe her spinnaker was just smaller than ours. OK, I'm being kind. She was slow.

The Lagoon 37 is a bit faster I think (lots lighter than the 380)

I've sailed past a fully loaded Lagoon 42 (family of 4). She was not as slow as the 380.

This was in our Woods 40 cat which was faster than most (family of 3 but my tools = 1 person).

The 42 is the better deal because of the new engines. 

This is an interesting one.  I know somebody that had one.  https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1990/kennex-380-destiny-3578990/

Just check if it is US flag or needs to be imported.

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1 hour ago, Zonker said:

Your price keeps going up :)

I blame you and others for pushing me towards catamarans, 99% of which are over my budget.

Thanks for the comments on the Lagoons - the older TPI versions appear much lighter (sailboatdata: 37 = 11,833, SA/D=26 versus the 380 = 16,000, SA/D=21)

Will take a closer look at the TPIs and the Kennex (didn't they make tennis rackets?) - pretty rough looking interior and old Volvos make me nervous.  

Met the owner of the local Cal 2-46 at my marina this weekend; had a full load of 6 adults and 10 girl scouts aboard returning from a daysail.  Looked like a pretty great time at half the price!  He seemed on top of things & very knowledgeable which is a good sign.  Said he likes the wire halyards!  

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I know all the olde timey rigging and electrics could be a PIA, but there's something about the Cal 2-46 that draws me. Seems to fit the use case pretty well, too. 

 

Never thought I'd like a motorsailer. 

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After reading and re-reading your OP, I would say that you need two boats.

1).  Big. Comfy. Carries mobs of people. No tippy-over.  Your family and kids don't want to sail, they want to have their kind of fun on the water.  That's cool....no worries, I get it!.   You need a big refrigerator, and good sound system and a potty that isn't stinky.  In other words, get a bigass powerboat. Everybody will be happy.  Like this:  https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1997/bayliner-avanti-3651950/

Accommodations
Number of single berths: 2
Number of twin berths: 3
Number of double berths: 2
Number of cabins: 2
Number of heads: 1

Everybody has a place to sleep.

That's 65 grand. You'll spend ten more on stuff like composting heads and whatever. $75K

Then buy the second boat...
2.) Small, like 30 feet.  Quick.  Sails great.  Daysail the hell out of it, and race.  Leave the kids at home, they don't want to sail, anyway.   Get something like an Olson 30 or something.

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2 hours ago, Alan H said:

After reading and re-reading your OP, I would say that you need two boats.

Thanks for the idea, but I see lots of downsides.  I'd end up paying for 75' of moorage, maintenance & bottom cleaning, and still no 3-cabin boat.  It's hard to see how that solution is superior to, say, a Beneteau 50, which has 3-4 cabins and could be used as a trawler, or actually sail pretty well.  

Also "need" should probably not be followed by "two boats" :)

Went through survey on my F405 yesterday, nothing significant found.  Should be closing soon assuming the buyer didn't have their funds in stocks...

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On 3/9/2020 at 6:48 PM, Elegua said:

I know all the olde timey rigging and electrics could be a PIA, but there's something about the Cal 2-46 that draws me. Seems to fit the use case pretty well, too. 

 

Never thought I'd like a motorsailer. 

Not so much a motor-sailor as a sailor motor sailor.

Tahiti in 21 days or 24? Family happy for fro 24 days or wanting off as soon as they get there?

Suunriiise Suunseet (there's a musical in there...)

After a week or so, who keeps track? It's all about "how much longer?"

Be comfy. make your family happy and let them enjoy! A VOR 70 would get you there way fast. Now you are there... Then what?!?

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This might be an old listing not sure but would tick a lot of boxes, albeit slightly over your budget but not outrageously. Maybe there's a deal to be had, because if it is still a live listing, its migrated from yacht world a couple of years ago to its current site...and ya you'd have to get it back to the west coast.

Built by a very reputable builder back in the day and designed by some guy named German Frers.

http://www.yacht-trader.com/search.php?mode=featured&uid=4d64d499-1795-ec3e-de21-42add4695b21

https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/cs-50

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7 hours ago, Caca Cabeza said:

Not so much a motor-sailor as a sailor motor sailor.

Tahiti in 21 days or 24? Family happy for fro 24 days or wanting off as soon as they get there?

Suunriiise Suunseet (there's a musical in there...)

After a week or so, who keeps track? It's all about "how much longer?"

Be comfy. make your family happy and let them enjoy! A VOR 70 would get you there way fast. Now you are there... Then what?!?

I’m with you. If I were really interested in just the destination, I’d take a 737. I really enjoy passages. The destination for me is just dessert after a good meal. 
 

With the Cal, at least you own something interesting. 

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47 minutes ago, Elegua said:

I’m with you. If I were really interested in just the destination, I’d take a 737. I really enjoy passages. The destination for me is just dessert after a good meal. 
 

With the Cal, at least you own something interesting. 

I'll 2nd that.  It's the fun surprises that pop up along the way, and moving along at a leisurely pace that puts one's mind in a healthier place.  Dolphins playing in your wake, occasional whales, ships on the horizon, etc...

God is there anything more horrid than shuffling through an airport to get stuffed in an airplane seat made for 6 year olds?  Then jam in scheduled sightseeing for the next 6 to 10 days, stuff everything into a suitcase and squeeze into the friggin airplane again, thousands of dollars poorer.  Ick.

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On 3/6/2020 at 12:54 PM, socalrider said:

Hi all!  

After almost 5 years with the First 405, wife and I decided it was time for a change and I put her up casually for private sale & just took a deposit on her at a fair price.  She's in survey on Wednesday, so a close is likely in the next couple weeks.  I'm poking around more seriously now & thought I'd start collecting advice from the stable geniuses on this forum.  Enjoy my dissertation!  

We listed the F405 because my three girls are getting bigger (6, 9, 11 now) and it's become clear that while *I* put a high priority on sailing performance, everyone else just wants a comfortable way to be together on the water.  Everyone hates heeling.  These criteria are leading me to look seriously at boats I would have scoffed at in earlier years.

Use case: easy daysailing with 6-10, overnighting with 5-9, summer Pacific coastal cruising for 2-10 weeks with 5.  Ready by late summer.  

Budget: trying to stay around $100k all-in including any refit work.  Have more, but don't want to spend it.  I'm handy, but time-constrained.  

Goals are:

- Interior that can sleep 5 in cabins (3 cabin or master plus one three-berth cabin).  We are used to smaller spaces than most (live in 1400sqft house).  6'2" headroom.

- Ample shaded cockpit free of lines, traveler, etc.  Ideally I can tack the boat without moving from the helm with 6-8 others aboard

- Motion comfort at anchor and in our normal Pacific swell.  This is tough to describe I know, but I know it when I feel it.  

- Simple systems: the F405 had a composting head, almost no electronics, and two through-hulls.  

Candidates (as of today): 

Kaufman 47: this whole thing started when I saw one for sale locally & started a thread about it here.  She's beautiful and fast, but needs an interior refit below and a significantly modified deck layout to meet my criterial.  Would need to come down a lot in price.  She was listed for $89k, taken off market by an offer to buy (sight unseen) at ~$75k, but the buyer has backed out before survey.  

Cal 2-46: I never would have looked at a boat like this before, but the layout is just amazing & wife loves it.  Looks like a fantastic Catalina boat, and ready for going further afield if we got more ambitious.  This particular example has the galley down, which is vastly better & creates a massive open saloon.  Interior is *great*.  Lots and lots of tanks, hoses and manifolds.  Old.  Great big 4.236 spinning a massive 26" 4-blade Martec, but the engine side not pictured has salt crystals on the heat exchanger (pinhole leaks I assume), and a lot of old clamps and hoses.  Running rigging needs to be completely redone (wire halyards & winches!).  More exterior wood than I'd like (I'd like none).  https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1977/cal-2-46-3619031/

Lagoon 35ccc: Baby cat, oddly similar in useable space to the 2-46.  In great shape.  Tankage is low (might need watermaker) but I liked it a lot more than I thought I would, and 1/3 the displacement of the 2-46 means everything is simpler.  Much much less load capacity than the 2-46 but I think we could make it work - comments?  https://sandiego.craigslist.org/nsd/boa/d/san-diego-1996-lagoon-35-ccc/7069655500.html

20 year-old French 45-50' 3-cabin monohulls: The obvious choice.  Finding one in good shape on the West Coast is more challenging than I'd thought.  There's a nice Dufour 45 Classic in LA but a bit over my range.  There are also a few ex-charter boats like this one with lots and lots of heads.  Lots of wing keels and in-mast furling mains which I don't like, but they'd still be faster than the 2-46 or 35ccc I suspect!  

If I could imagine the perfect boat it'd probably be an older lightweight but well-built 40' cat (Woods, Simpson, or even some of the 90's production boats), but these are very hard to find here.  I see a lot of good stuff in the Caribbean but don't know if it's practical to contemplate bringing one over; I just don't have the time.  

Best to look for a 150 k boat 

 

then put 100 k on the table 

 

the brokerage market is very depressed 

 

way to many boats chasing way to few clients 

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38 minutes ago, bgytr said:

I'll 2nd that.  It's the fun surprises that pop up along the way, and moving along at a leisurely pace that puts one's mind in a healthier place.  Dolphins playing in your wake, occasional whales, ships on the horizon, etc...

God is there anything more horrid than shuffling through an airport to get stuffed in an airplane seat made for 6 year olds?  Then jam in scheduled sightseeing for the next 6 to 10 days, stuff everything into a suitcase and squeeze into the friggin airplane again, thousands of dollars poorer.  Ick.

I had a number of years where I flew 200+k miles a year. Never again.  

My son and I love sailing, so we've done stuff like sail on port tack offshore for 24hrs to see how far we get and then tack back because my mom was making fish chowder on Sunday night. I think we made it pretty close to Nova Scotia. 

Maine is great that way. You never have to suffer gotta-get-there-itis. There are always a huge number of good alternate stops even if you missed the tide, or the breeze. You seldom have to worry about moorings (LM has a secret mooring archipelago) or spots to anchor except in the most popular destinations. So have that second cup of coffee, though you might miss that light easterly I treasure so much for getting out of the river. 

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Quick update: My F405 went through survey on Wednesday, looking good for a close in the next week or so.  

I'm most interested in the following three vastly different boats at this point.  The Jeanneau 42 is a lot like my F405 but just a bit bigger, extra cabin, swim step, quieter engine.  Probably the safest choice.  I'd prefer a few more feet but having a very hard time finding a bigger French boat on the West Coast that's not either a wreck or overpriced.  Catalina 42s are also in this category, but seem to be $30k more for a similar bost.  https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1998/jeanneau-sun-odyssey-3617452/

The Cal 2-46 still has my eye.  It is more interesting, probably comfier in general (certainly the interior), will motor better and sail worse.  Lack of a swim step is a big minus.  https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1977/cal-2-46-3619031/

If I can stretch my budget and/or get a good deal I like this TPI Lagoon 42, which I'd have to get delivered (prob $10-15k and a big possible pain in the neck).  https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1991/lagoon-tpi-42-3526039/

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I’m a little biased on this but the Catalina 42 is a pretty well rounded boat, my parents have had one for going on 20 yrs now.  I think the one bonus it has over the Jeanneau is the separate shower stall in the owners cabin.  Also the 42 has a great owners association that is very active so questions or modifications can be researched very easily.  The boat sails very well for its rating and the quality of the build is very good.  Sometimes resale values are telling, kinda like how J boats or other select brands tend to command prices slightly higher than others.  
The Cal is in a totally different realm, much more cruiser/interior space.  It sails decently I’m sure but cruiser comfort is #1.  

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On 3/13/2020 at 10:03 AM, slug zitski said:

Best to look for a 150 k boat 

 

then put 100 k on the table 

 

the brokerage market is very depressed 

 

way to many boats chasing way to few clients 

^^^ what slug said

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39 minutes ago, Trovão said:

^^^ what slug said

I keep hearing this but it's not been totally reflective of what I've seen locally - a couple of ~50' French boats I've been interested in have sold.  There's generally not a whole lot out there, particularly multihulls.  If I do a YW search on CA 44-54' sailboats 1990 or newer there are only a handful (like 3) under $175k with 3+ cabins.  I know of 2 in that category which have sold in the last 4 months.  Brokers claim that the sellers got close to asking (lots of grains of salt there of course).  There are a few more on Sailboatlistings but not many.  

They do take a long time to sell, but there are also not that many of them.  Of course anyone holding one right now who's getting nervous about the running costs might be ready to deal.  What's everyone else seeing?  

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9 hours ago, socalrider said:

I keep hearing this but it's not been totally reflective of what I've seen locally - a couple of ~50' French boats I've been interested in have sold.  There's generally not a whole lot out there, particularly multihulls.  If I do a YW search on CA 44-54' sailboats 1990 or newer there are only a handful (like 3) under $175k with 3+ cabins.  I know of 2 in that category which have sold in the last 4 months.  Brokers claim that the sellers got close to asking (lots of grains of salt there of course).  There are a few more on Sailboatlistings but not many.  

They do take a long time to sell, but there are also not that many of them.  Of course anyone holding one right now who's getting nervous about the running costs might be ready to deal.  What's everyone else seeing?  

Find a buyer’s broker. They earn their money on a split of the commission with the selling broker, no money from your pocket, and can get you the actual price of recent sales.

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Plus all boats are different 

 

some are all original equipment , junk 

some are in survey and upgraded 

10 year old standing rigging is junk 

10 year old sail drive gaskets are junk 

10 year old mainsails are junk 

10 year old electronics are junk 

the list is  long 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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On 3/18/2020 at 7:37 AM, slug zitski said:

Plus all boats are different 

 

some are all original equipment , junk 

some are in survey and upgraded 

10 year old standing rigging is junk 

10 year old sail drive gaskets are junk 

10 year old mainsails are junk 

10 year old electronics are junk 

the list is  long 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Plus all owners requirements are different.  I’ve owned and club raced 3 boats where electronics and standing rigging was greater than 10 years old with no issue.

 

10 year old main not likely good to race with, might be ok as a delivery sail.

10 year old sail drive gasket a risk I’m not willing to take, and would specifically negotiate price down as a result

YMMV...

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20 minutes ago, Crash said:

Plus all owners requirements are different.  I’ve owned and club raced 3 boats where electronics and standing rigging was greater than 10 years old with no issue.

 

10 year old main not likely good to race with, might be ok as a delivery sail.

10 year old sail drive gasket a risk I’m not willing to take, and would specifically negotiate price down as a result

YMMV...

This is very true.  Our current boat has 10 year old sails, electronics & standing rigging (inspected), which is 100% fine for its intended use.

We're continuing to look - seen a couple of 1990's boats in the 42-43' range with bigger cockpits, swim steps, 3-cabins which could do really well for us.  

There are several slightly newer French boats in SoCal in the 45-50' range asking $170-$250k that have been for sale for a while.  Once we have our cash in hand I'll start calling to let people know we're buying within a few weeks at a $100k max budget; may be some deals to be had.  On the other hand, a lot of them are likely not seriously for sale.  We'll see.  

A friend with a Catalina 42 (what a glorious cockpit!) is stuck in Hawaii for the next several months & asked us to exercise her over the next few months, so that'll take some of the pressure to buy quickly off.   Though if the kids' school is cancelled for the rest of the year we're gonna want to cast off for a while I think.  

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Game On!  

Received wire transfer for the balance of our First 405 today!  Was obviously on pins and needles waiting for the transfer to take place with the craziness going on right now, but buyers never got cold feet or attempted to renegotiate anything.  10% off listed price, so pretty standard.  Would have been fine keeping her if it fell through, but very excited to be boat shopping now, particularly in this very much altered environment.  

Interesting decisions ahead, particularly if the entire school year is cancelled, in which case moving onto the boat for a few months and exploring the CA coast once the weather clears up seems like a unique opportunity.  That would mean buying a boat that's relatively cruise-ready and local, and probably not getting the absolute best deal possible.  I'm okay with trading $$ for experience.  

Here's a cruise-ready candidate: https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1992/beneteau-43-3644067/ she's been showered with love and $$ for a long time, only thing wrong with her is the $&%$ Beneteau headliner in the aft cabin but we can live with that.  

On the other hand, we might be able to get a deal on something newer like this 439 https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2012/jeanneau-439-3643952/.  There's a nice Dufour 45, and a 44.7 and 47.7 up in LA that might work too with a bit of modification (and with the Firsts, likely a fair bit of time sailing under main only...)  

If I could score a good deal on a ~40' catamaran I think that'd be ideal, but it doesn't look like that'll be an option for some time with a canal transit out of the question.  Right now the only cat in California listed under $275k is the Lagoon 35ccc everyone panned earlier.  Cats are particularly tempting because I found a very reasonable 40' slip in a good marina.  

I think I'm going to start calling on anything interesting at $200k or under and see if it's worth checking out the boat given our $100k budget.  

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Two thoughts on the 43.  One is that the side of the cabin top is sloped to a significant degree, so if and when it rains, if the opening portlights leak some, they will drip onto the settees.  Also its a pan/liner boat (unlike your 405 was) so if there is a grounding or other accident, the damage is harder to fix.  I have experienced both issues on my 1991 Bene First 310  (plus the Beneteau headliner issue, but you had that on the 405 as well didn't you :rolleyes:)....

 

Have a friend who has a Jeanneau 42i Performance.  Did a "Down the Bay" race (Chesapeake Bay) on it.  Did 18 kts downwind with the small jib and main in 30-35kts sustained.  Went 120nm in less then 12 hours.  Was a very solid ride.  Seems to meet all your requirements, and a little cheaper than the 439...here's a non Performance version in LA...

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2008/jeanneau-sun-odyssey-42i-3617751/

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On 3/13/2020 at 9:03 AM, slug zitski said:

Best to look for a 150 k boat 

 

then put 100 k on the table 

 

the brokerage market is very depressed 

 

way to many boats chasing way to few clients 

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1988/little-harbor-46-3512944/

Look at this baby, Little Harbor 46.  Hood centerboard, will sail fabulously, top line craftsmanship, among the finest production boats ever built.  Strategy for purchase per slugs above.  I bought a boat last year, 40 footer, for 1/3rd of the original asking price.

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Kinda in the same boat, only on the east coast and looking to step up from my Bene O-350 to more of a blue water someday-retirement boat.

Maybe a Passport 40 or slightly bigger.  Unfamiliar with the Cal 2-46. Sturdily-built ocean passage maker?

 

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7 hours ago, bgytr said:

Look at this baby, Little Harbor 46.  Hood centerboard, will sail fabulously, top line craftsmanship, among the finest production boats ever built.  Strategy for purchase per slugs above.  I bought a boat last year, 40 footer, for 1/3rd of the original asking price.

That's a good price to start with.  2 cabins though, and teak decks.  And in Spain.  

6 hours ago, Israel Hands said:

Unfamiliar with the Cal 2-46. Sturdily-built ocean passage maker?

Indeed, many have circumnavigated - I do keep getting drawn back to her; she's got a lot of appeal.  

So far brokers are telling me there's no market correction yet, probably will take a few months.  We'll see.  

I'm considering this big Jeanneau 51 in SF - already in price striking distance, though she'd need a dodger, solar/battery upgrade, etc. for cruising duty.  Lots of comfort, space and tankage though, and I like the Perkins 4.236 and shaft drive: https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1994/jeanneau-sun-odyssey-3617128/ 

 

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39 minutes ago, socalrider said:

That's a good price to start with.  2 cabins though, and teak decks.  And in Spain.  

Indeed, many have circumnavigated - I do keep getting drawn back to her; she's got a lot of appeal.  

So far brokers are telling me there's no market correction yet, probably will take a few months.  We'll see.  

I'm considering this big Jeanneau 51 in SF - already in price striking distance, though she'd need a dodger, solar/battery upgrade, etc. for cruising duty.  Lots of comfort, space and tankage though, and I like the Perkins 4.236 and shaft drive: https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1994/jeanneau-sun-odyssey-3617128/ 

 

The fam would LOVE that boat, but that keel! Ouch!

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1 hour ago, Raz'r said:

The fam would LOVE that boat, but that keel! Ouch!

I know... it's a hollow stainless keel (fuel tank there maybe?) with an externally bolted lead wing - was pulled, faired, re-caulked in 2015.  Better than cast iron I guess.  Shame they didn't re-cast it into a deeper bulb while they were at it!  

Still going to be faster and probably more weatherly than almost anything else I've been looking at aside from the Beneteau Firsts though.  Any other disadvantages?  

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I'd certainly wait. Lots of people are going to be out of work or just plain hurting. Maybe not ALL the larger boat owners, but some of them. If they own a restaurant or a service oriented business or a work for an airline, etc. etc. they are going to be in financial pain. You'd sell your boat before the car and the house.

You like a Perkins? With >6000 hours? Do you work for an oil change company perhaps and get bulk discounts?

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3 hours ago, Zonker said:

You like a Perkins? With >6000 hours? Do you work for an oil change company perhaps and get bulk discounts?

Okay so they're a little leaky... but they are great engines in my opinion, particularly the 4.236.  Parts are cheap, easy to work on.... 6,000hrs is just getting warmed up *if* it's been cared for properly.  Much rather that than an old Volvo.  Do you have a different opinion of them?  

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49 minutes ago, longy said:

Check with your favorite mechanic - parts are getting scarce. And beware the balancer hiding in the oil pan.

My favorite mechanic loves them... hmmm... 

I didn't have trouble sourcing parts for my 4.108, but they are getting pretty old.  They're everywhere though, and I could often get parts at tractor prices rather than boatyard prices, which is nice.  I'l look into the balancer - I don't know that my 4.108 had one.  

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My mechanic as well. They strongly recommended that I rebuild rather than replace my Perkins 4-108. It’s a bit agricultural compared to modern diesels in terms of noise and NVH. Lining the engine box with soundown did less than I hoped. With modern seals, it doesn’t leak oil (probably shouldn’t have said that out loud). So far, parts have not been hard to find or expensive. Accessories are now all standard AC Declco. 

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5 hours ago, Elegua said:

My mechanic as well. 

Mechanics would love em wouldn't they? (couldn't resist). 

My boat came (to me) with a 4-108 in it. I am "my mechanic"--- ever tried to bleed a 4-108? At sea? While the engine had a certain agriculltural appeal (e.g. the thermostat for a Chevy 350 from NAPA works), the bleeding routine alone caused me to replace it with a NOS Isuzu. Haven't looked back.

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1 hour ago, Zonker said:

Well I hate older Volvos more. Leaky, heavy but as long as parts are still available o.k. then have at it. 

Never intended for my dislike of Perkins to interfere with your hatred of Volvos.... :D Maybe we should start an "Engines you love to hate" thread. 

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3 hours ago, Anomaly2 said:

Mechanics would love em wouldn't they? (couldn't resist). 

My boat came (to me) with a 4-108 in it. I am "my mechanic"--- ever tried to bleed a 4-108? At sea? While the engine had a certain agriculltural appeal (e.g. the thermostat for a Chevy 350 from NAPA works), the bleeding routine alone caused me to replace it with a NOS Isuzu. Haven't looked back.

It’s not earned him much, yet except that It ran well when it “needed” a rebuild. Runs exactly the same after the rebuild ^_^. It’s now been 9 years of abuse since: I rarely motor- so a lot of the hours are charging - temp is stable at WOT and it doesn’t leak oil now that it’s no longer over propped and all the seals are modern. So far I only had to fix that weird Perkins pre-heat system where you drip fuel on a hot point and start a small fire. I’m sure a new engine would have delivered similar performance or better, but would have cost 50% more to get abused in the same way. When the “Perkolator”does die, I’ll need to convert to a 76mm exhaust and I can only hope all of the access points in the engine box still line up. I could be wrong, but the Perkins does seem to be a relatively light engine. Similar hp Beta engines are the same or heavier. I was expecting that a replacement would save me a lot of weight. Anyway, compared to modern engines, it is loud and converts a significant portion of its motive force to vibration. 

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I'll give you that bleeding a 4.108 sucks.  I've done it but thankfully not while at sea.  Biggest issue is access - on my F405 the entire starboard side of the engine was unimpeded, but everything important was on port.  :(

The 4.236 weight is 1100lbs.  A newer Yanmar 4CHE3 is listed at 1250lbs, though the 4JH-DTE is listed at half that "dry weight without running gear" whatever that means.  

I certainly agree on NVH with the 4.108.  I was about to go the Soundown route, and maybe modern/new engine mounts on the F405.  The 4.236 turns significantly slower than the 4.108 (1600rpm vs 2000rpm seem to be common efficient cruising speeds) & owners report she's relatively quiet.  

Certainly I'd rather have a brand new Yanmar or Beta, but most of the boats I'm looking at are 20+ years old with original engines with 4-6k hours, and for that I'd rather have simplicity - shaft drive, NA, Perkins or Yanmar.  Maybe leaning Perkins for the 80hp and Yanmar for 40-50hp but that's not based on personal experience.  

~$500 for a 4.236 in-frame rebuild kit.  Hard to beat.  

https://www.agkits.com/236-perkins-engine-rebuild-kits.aspx

image.png.ff001b30326f64fed2e2722b6235f88d.png

 

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Only the 4-236 has the balancer in the sump. Basically a set of gears eccentrically weighted so when a piston goes up, a weight goes down. I know of a charter boat that had the balancer explode, dropped the pan, flushed out all the chunks, and carried on for another 2 -3 years with no detectable change in vibration.

   I recently had to get the high pressure pump re built in SoCal, that's where I got the cautions on parts availability from several old time mechanics. Perkins engines of that era didn't leak oil, it just perspired out over that entire block

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57 minutes ago, longy said:

Only the 4-236 has the balancer in the sump. Basically a set of gears eccentrically weighted so when a piston goes up, a weight goes down. I know of a charter boat that had the balancer explode, dropped the pan, flushed out all the chunks, and carried on for another 2 -3 years with no detectable change in vibration.

   I recently had to get the high pressure pump re built in SoCal, that's where I got the cautions on parts availability from several old time mechanics. Perkins engines of that era didn't leak oil, it just perspired out over that entire block

Got it - thanks.  I also had my HPFP rebuilt for my 4.108 after it started leaking diesel on the way back from Catalina last summer.  Cost wasn't too bad; there were a few new ones out there but they were more expensive IIRC.  

Who's your Perkins guy down here?  I've gotten a lot of help from Jim Wilson.  

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Perkins guru for me is John Ross. He's been wrenching on P's most of his life. Even put a 4-108 in his work truck a while back. If John doesn't know how to fix it, throw it away. He's mostly out of Dna Pt these days

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On 3/26/2020 at 3:15 PM, socalrider said:

I'm considering this big Jeanneau 51 in SF - already in price striking distance, though she'd need a dodger, solar/battery upgrade, etc. for cruising duty.  Lots of comfort, space and tankage though, and I like the Perkins 4.236 and shaft drive: https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1994/jeanneau-sun-odyssey-3617128/ 

 

I ran that very boat in the BVI for a couple summers 20 years ago, and it was great. Not that it matters much this far down the line, but at the time it was the fastest and most reliable one in the fleet. Never sailed on or against a First near that size, but that generation Sun Odyssey, in general, sailed much better than any of the 50' charter options from Beneteau at the time, and better than the following Sun Odyssey generation, too. 

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17 hours ago, j 4 said:

I ran that very boat in the BVI for a couple summers 20 years ago, and it was great. Not that it matters much this far down the line, but at the time it was the fastest and most reliable one in the fleet. Never sailed on or against a First near that size, but that generation Sun Odyssey, in general, sailed much better than any of the 50' charter options from Beneteau at the time, and better than the following Sun Odyssey generation, too. 

That's really helpful, thanks.  I'm certainly attracted to the Farr hull.  I do prefer the later versions' primary winch placement back near the helm instead of on the coachroof, but not the end of the world.  Sounds like the owner has done at least some of the important stuff (recently replaced all through-hulls for example).  Certainly in consideration if I can ever get up there to see her.

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Another vote for the Jeanneau, 40 or 42.  Maybe even a 38.  They're all very similar.  We rented a 42 over Xmas 2011 for 5 day cruise in SoCal.  One of our party had a 40 in Europe, and wanted to show us "his boat."  The 42 had dual helms and electric winches -- easy to get used to!  I was impressed how it sailed in the lightest wind, and was easy to handle in 25kt the day before.

I've spent some time on a Catalina 42 as well.  Either would be a great platform for SoCal, but I think the Jeanneau sails better. 

I've also spent time on a Cal 2-46, a fantastic cruising boat.  Great deck space!  Definitely more motorsailor, but that's what most people do anyway.  They've held their value, and probably still will when you're done.

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6 hours ago, blurocketsmate said:

Another vote for the Jeanneau, 40 or 42.  Maybe even a 38.  They're all very similar.  We rented a 42 over Xmas 2011 for 5 day cruise in SoCal.  One of our party had a 40 in Europe, and wanted to show us "his boat."  The 42 had dual helms and electric winches -- easy to get used to!  I was impressed how it sailed in the lightest wind, and was easy to handle in 25kt the day before.

I've spent some time on a Catalina 42 as well.  Either would be a great platform for SoCal, but I think the Jeanneau sails better. 

I've also spent time on a Cal 2-46, a fantastic cruising boat.  Great deck space!  Definitely more motorsailor, but that's what most people do anyway.  They've held their value, and probably still will when you're done.

Thanks!  I've been e-mailing some Cal 2-46 owners via their owners' group & while they all dearly love their boats many of them have spent pretty crazy amounts of time and money on them over the years.  Apparently to get the aluminum tanks out you need to take a sawzall to the cabin floor - one guy spent $70k on the job all-in.  The other major issue is that the teak toerail adhesive can fail & cause leaks.  Repairing means ripping out the toerail, sculpting & re-bedding a new one.  Yikes.  

The one I've been looking at in SD has been loved by the owner but hasn't had this kind of major work done.  I fear that it could turn into a very expensive boat.  All the others I've seen don't have the galley down arrangement, which I feel is vastly superior.  Those French boats, while less romantic, are looking better.  

Gonna take the family out on our borrowed Catalina 42 this coming weekend, assuming the marina is still open.  

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^^^  I couldn't resist checking the listings.  The one in SD is appealing because it's a sloop, which are rare, and it looks like a fairly unmolested, original boat.  Of course, who knows what lurks!  I shudder to think what getting major work done in SoCal would cost, let alone time.

The Cal is neat but if you want to go sailing, I think you'd be happier with the Jeanneau or Catalina.

Have fun sailing!

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