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Help me find my next boat: family coastal cruiser for ~$100k


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6 minutes ago, Misbehavin' said:

How about an older Elan? Rob Humphries design with good sailing performance and better build quality than the comparable frogboats.

There's a gorgeous 40' Elan listed in the Bay Area - only Elan on the West Coast, and it only has 2 cabins.  They look great but seem very rare here - only 6 listed in N. America.  

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2004/elan-40-2863021/

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5 minutes ago, socalrider said:

There's a gorgeous 40' Elan listed in the Bay Area - only Elan on the West Coast, and it only has 2 cabins.  They look great but seem very rare here - only 6 listed in N. America.  

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2004/elan-40-2863021/

That's really nice.

My aunt and her husband has just sold their simiarly-aged and designed Elan 31 this week, because they want something more comfy. Which of course is understandable, given that they're in there 60's and it's not that roomy below being only 31 feet. It was a great sailing boat.

I think Elan gives the best bang buck for the money in general of all european brands, in terms of design, sailing performance and quality of construction.

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I've had some great sailing on Elans. I'd call them mid range in terms of build quality. Not bad, but not an X yacht.

Be aware there are very different boats in their range. Some are very cruiser focused, some quite sporty. You can't assume they all fall into either the performance or comfort box.

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33 minutes ago, European Bloke said:

I've had some great sailing on Elans. I'd call them mid range in terms of build quality. Not bad, but not an X yacht.

Be aware there are very different boats in their range. Some are very cruiser focused, some quite sporty. You can't assume they all fall into either the performance or comfort box.

I agree in terms of build quality, not quite X-Yacht standards, but a lot better than the AWB BavBenJean type of boats.

I've sailed the Elan 50 Impression 5-cabin version, which we chartered in Croatia last year for one week, being 10 family members aboard, all are sailors. The "Impression"-range are cruisers and good at that, but don't expect exhilarating performance from it. I couldn't put my finger on anything not being of good enough quality on that, especially considering how hard a life charter boats live with often incompetent and careless skippers and crew mistreating the boats.

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I lobbed an aggressive offer in on the Jeanneau 42, but the owner's sticking close to his asking price for now.  

I haven't seen any evidence of the market softening.  I do suspect that things will be different in a month or two.  It would be nice to have the next couple of months to work on boat projects, but I'd hate to buy a boat now & then see lots of great bargains in a couple months - the Jeanneau is a good boat and priced okay, but not particularly special.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Quick update: I've agreed to take care of a friend's Catalina 42 while they're stuck overseas; with the boating ban lifted I took her out on the Bay this past weekend, which was fantastic. Family loves the big open cockpit & the pullman forward berth.  

I must say though... pretty dull boat to sail.  Part of it was being stuck behind the helm with all the sail controls at the coachroof, another part the old sails.  But she kind of felt like a truck compared to my old F405.  I'd certainly rather be on the C42 than the F405 for a month, but I think I need more sailing performance than she can offer.  

I also took a look at a J/130 locally - what a boat!  Unfortunately my head hits the liner almost everywhere, and we'd need to convert a storage locker into a berth for one of my kids - was checking to see if it'd be workable and I just don't think so; really not more space than the F405 below.  

I'm now thinking a newer First might be the ticket.  I didn't like the 45f5 we saw, but a 40.7 might be just about right - a bit smaller than we'd been thinking but still a good upgrade from the 405 in terms of cockpit, swim step, 3rd cabin.  And it has a traveler by the helm so I could singlehand from behind the wheel.  44.7 or 47.7 would be even better but out of the budget at the time.  

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7 hours ago, socalrider said:

Quick update: I've agreed to take care of a friend's Catalina 42 while they're stuck overseas; with the boating ban lifted I took her out on the Bay this past weekend, which was fantastic. Family loves the big open cockpit & the pullman forward berth.  

I must say though... pretty dull boat to sail.  Part of it was being stuck behind the helm with all the sail controls at the coachroof, another part the old sails.  But she kind of felt like a truck compared to my old F405.  I'd certainly rather be on the C42 than the F405 for a month, but I think I need more sailing performance than she can offer.  

I also took a look at a J/130 locally - what a boat!  Unfortunately my head hits the liner almost everywhere, and we'd need to convert a storage locker into a berth for one of my kids - was checking to see if it'd be workable and I just don't think so; really not more space than the F405 below.  

I'm now thinking a newer First might be the ticket.  I didn't like the 45f5 we saw, but a 40.7 might be just about right - a bit smaller than we'd been thinking but still a good upgrade from the 405 in terms of cockpit, swim step, 3rd cabin.  And it has a traveler by the helm so I could singlehand from behind the wheel.  44.7 or 47.7 would be even better but out of the budget at the time.  

Re the First 40.7.  Agree from an interior standpoint. Does everything you'd want/need.  Also from a performance standpoint. That said, I raced on a buddy's boat at KWRW one year.  With the breeze up, its a long and intimidating way down to the leeward side of the cockpit.  Kinda like cliff diving....

That may not be too much of an issue in San Diego....

Having said that, with a little work, a C42, with good sails, and the trav moved aft, etc, could be a pretty reasonable performance cruiser.  Certainly the price could be right, giving you room to make some "performance mods."

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1 hour ago, Crash said:

Having said that, with a little work, a C42, with good sails, and the trav moved aft, etc, could be a pretty reasonable performance cruiser.  Certainly the price could be right, giving you room to make some "performance mods."

That would be like putting high performance tires and a dual element wing on a Honda Odyssey.

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Just now, SloopJonB said:

That would be like putting high performance tires and a dual element wing on a Honda Odyssey.

Yeah, and the market for C42s is surprisingly strong.  They're in the $100-130's (mkii), versus the 40.7's which seem to be closer to $80-90k for roughly the same age of boat.  PHRF of 108 vs 56, so really not in the same league.  

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1 hour ago, Ishmael said:

A beautiful boat, with the interior of a 30'er crammed into the hull.

Back when J boats were building the J/32, their ad campaign was that you could have the interior space of a 40+ classic boat in a 32 footer.

j-32_jboats_ad-2a.jpg

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On 3/12/2020 at 4:23 PM, Alan H said:

After reading and re-reading your OP, I would say that you need two boats.

1).  Big. Comfy. Carries mobs of people. No tippy-over.  Your family and kids don't want to sail, they want to have their kind of fun on the water.  That's cool....no worries, I get it!.   You need a big refrigerator, and good sound system and a potty that isn't stinky.  In other words, get a bigass powerboat. Everybody will be happy.  Like this:  https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1997/bayliner-avanti-3651950/

Accommodations
Number of single berths: 2
Number of twin berths: 3
Number of double berths: 2
Number of cabins: 2
Number of heads: 1

Everybody has a place to sleep.

That's 65 grand. You'll spend ten more on stuff like composting heads and whatever. $75K

Then buy the second boat...
2.) Small, like 30 feet.  Quick.  Sails great.  Daysail the hell out of it, and race.  Leave the kids at home, they don't want to sail, anyway.   Get something like an Olson 30 or something.

Having a second look at this concept at the moment, with a bit of a twist... Family still not digging the heeling.  Was thinking about a trawler, and actually looked at a couple single screw ships that I thought I might be able to live with (Mainship 390, Grand Banks 36), with the idea that I'd get an RS Aero or something fun for myself to hang off the back and get my sailing fix.  

Then I came back to one of the original boats mentioned: the Lagoon 35 ccc, but thinking of it as a motorsailer.  Vastly more efficient than the trawlers and more/better space too.  Sails ok if we keep it light, doesn't heel or roll, simple systems.  Think I can get it for my budget.  

Our cruising ambitions have shrunk a bit with COVID.  Few months in SoCal over the summer looks like what's realistic for the next few years.  I know the Lagoon 35's are not terribly well regarded, but it seems like it could be a really fun boat for our purposes - a bigger Gemini, or a powercat with a stick.  If I'm honest I think the family would be much happier on this than a 40.7 or 44.7, or even a Catalina 42.  

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In this kind of catamaran sizes, the Helios 38 has a good reputation amongst French catamarans. Without being a race boat, it sails better and it is said to be well designed.

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Do you have a dry sailing hoist available in your area?  How about a launch ramp?   That might factor into this decision.  Get a big old powerboat to take the wife and kids out on and party and sleep and there you go.

Keep a Melges 24 or even a Wavelength 24  to daysail and do some races, with a couple buddies.

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45f5 has NARROW side decks. I was going to look at one before my buyers broker, Ron Gullan, owner of Yachtfinders in San Diego, pointed this out to me. I mention because I think Ron could save you a lot of time and aggravation. He has an associate in the SF Bay are that knows all the boats on the market there and he has contacts all up and down the SoCal coast. I'd recommend you think about having someone like Ron on your selection team. A commission is going to get paid anyway; the least you can do is make sure you're getting something for it.

As for boats, I can 't quite figure out if you are kidding yourself or not. You say you want to be able to enjoy daysail but then you look at cats that, in our region, are nothing but extra stable, slow power boats. Most days out in SD the winds peak at 8-10 kts and I sail right by Seawinds, Athenas, Geminis and the like in my 40' mono.

Finally, I've bought three boats in California now and never paid more than 100K and they all have required substantial investment for neglected or out of service life systems or parts. Better budget another $20,000 or, better yet, look for something in the $200,000 range that's been super well kept up and you can maybe get for $150,000. That's if you can swing it, of course. Either way, good luck and see you out there this summer.

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1 hour ago, kinardly said:

45f5 has NARROW side decks. I was going to look at one before my buyers broker, Ron Gullan, owner of Yachtfinders in San Diego, pointed this out to me. I mention because I think Ron could save you a lot of time and aggravation. He has an associate in the SF Bay are that knows all the boats on the market there and he has contacts all up and down the SoCal coast. I'd recommend you think about having someone like Ron on your selection team. A commission is going to get paid anyway; the least you can do is make sure you're getting something for it.

45F5 is a weird boat in a lot of ways.  One thing I didn't mention in my rant about its interior earlier: there are *no* hatches in the boat that you can squeeze through.  The only exit is through the companionway.  Gave me the heebie-jeebies once I figured it out.  Thanks for the rec on the buyer's agent; I'll think about it.  I'm enjoying the process in the meantime.

1 hour ago, kinardly said:

As for boats, I can 't quite figure out if you are kidding yourself or not. You say you want to be able to enjoy daysail but then you look at cats that, in our region, are nothing but extra stable, slow power boats. Most days out in SD the winds peak at 8-10 kts and I sail right by Seawinds, Athenas, Geminis and the like in my 40' mono.

Well to be fair your 40' mono (you have a 40.7 right?) sails right by almost anything in the Bay, my old First 405 included!  I'm not under the illusion that the Lagoon 35 would be a performance machine - but it'd be an efficient and stable powerboat that I could sail sometimes, kind of like the Cal 2-46 I was looking at earlier.  Where I'm coming down is: I either get a nice sailboat that I really love sailing (40.7 or 44.7) or go all the way to the other extreme and get a Grand Banks 36 or the Lagoon 35, plus maybe an RS Aero or even an old Laser for fun.  

1 hour ago, kinardly said:

Finally, I've bought three boats in California now and never paid more than 100K and they all have required substantial investment for neglected or out of service life systems or parts. Better budget another $20,000 or, better yet, look for something in the $200,000 range that's been super well kept up and you can maybe get for $150,000. That's if you can swing it, of course. Either way, good luck and see you out there this summer.

I get it - I have budgeted $10-20k on top of purchase price.  40.7 is squarely in budget, as is a Grand Banks 36 or the Lagoon 35.  Going up to $150 puts 44.7's in range.  Or I can keep waiting for an economic collapse while borrowing my friend's Catalina 42.  I am more nervous about spending big $$ on a boat now than I was when I started looking, and prices do not seem to have come down at all.  

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To me, it sounds like you should get a cat + dinghy. That way you can have your cake and eat it too.

 

You family will love the space and stability of the cat and you will still be able to be under sail, if the wind is up for it, and then you can still get your sailing kicks from the dinghy.

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I fear your wife would not like the 40.7. It's a tippy ride. Something had to give and Bruce Farr decided it was crew weight on the rail over ballast down low. My wife and I knew that going in and we were fine with it.

I remember describing the 45f5 Pininfarina interior as "Euro Trash" look. Just not to my taste at all.

Of all the boats I lusted for and couldn't swing, that J-130 is near the top of the list. If I recall, they wouldn't budge off of $140K and they'd been on the market quite a while even then. And that was 4 years ago. You might consider a drive up the coast to have a look, just to make sure.

The other, and it was way over my budget but might be worth your consideration in this period of economic uncertainty, is the Dufour 50 Classic. There's one at SDYC that I've visited a few times and it's just gorgeous. One of my friends, who sadly passed away recently, was a partner and he and the current owner kept it maintained to a spectacular level. A beater might be worth a look if not too tired and you can find one. They appear to sail well in spite of a furling main, and that 15 foot beam makes it a palace below.

Finally, what could be so wrong with picking up a boat in Europe, once the pandemic subsides? I think that's my next play. Cruise the med for a month or two and then bring it to the New World via the Canal.

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3 hours ago, kinardly said:

I fear your wife would not like the 40.7. It's a tippy ride. Something had to give and Bruce Farr decided it was crew weight on the rail over ballast down low. My wife and I knew that going in and we were fine with it.

I remember describing the 45f5 Pininfarina interior as "Euro Trash" look. Just not to my taste at all.

Of all the boats I lusted for and couldn't swing, that J-130 is near the top of the list. If I recall, they wouldn't budge off of $140K and they'd been on the market quite a while even then. And that was 4 years ago. You might consider a drive up the coast to have a look, just to make sure.

The other, and it was way over my budget but might be worth your consideration in this period of economic uncertainty, is the Dufour 50 Classic. There's one at SDYC that I've visited a few times and it's just gorgeous. One of my friends, who sadly passed away recently, was a partner and he and the current owner kept it maintained to a spectacular level. A beater might be worth a look if not too tired and you can find one. They appear to sail well in spite of a furling main, and that 15 foot beam makes it a palace below.

Finally, what could be so wrong with picking up a boat in Europe, once the pandemic subsides? I think that's my next play. Cruise the med for a month or two and then bring it to the New World via the Canal.

Thanks for the feedback on your 40.7.  I actually did go up and see the J-130 even though it was under contract at the time.  It is seriously lustworthy, and if we had 2 kids rather than 3 I would seriously consider her even though the headroom is about 1/2" too low for me.  

There's a pretty nice Dufour 45 Classic up in Marina Del Ray, but asking $169k and not willing to come down.  There are two 44.7's locally that appear to be in much better shape that could be had for less.  There's just not much out there right now with 3 cabins in the $100k range.  If I can negotiate a decent price, I'm pretty seriously heading in the Lagoon 35 direction right now for the stability & simplicity based on our actual situation rather than what I dream about - I think the family would absolutely love it.  Picking up a boat in Europe and bringing her back sounds fantastic, maybe for the retirement boat in another 10 years, but not realistic right now with COVID.  

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1 hour ago, socalrider said:

If I can negotiate a decent price, I'm pretty seriously heading in the Lagoon 35 direction right now for the stability & simplicity based on our actual situation rather than what I dream about - I think the family would absolutely love it.  

Edit: Nope.  Lagoon 35 owner's not budging far from the $135k he's asking despite it being on the market for 6+ months and the fact that there's a nicer one in the PNW asking $113k and several older listings asking $90-100k.  

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How much time and MMUs are you willing to spend on an older boat? Car Crash shared a link in another topic to a Yachtworld listing on an Ericson 46 up in the Bay Area. I had one for nine years and really loved the design and layout. You can actually single hand this one quite well. It's pretty much the same helm, cockpit and belowdecks layout as mine but don't even think about it unless you can spend another $50K and maybe the next year or so as it's bound to have issues. Two staterooms, two heads, huge galley and that saloon can convert to a four double berth dormitory which I often did for assorted nieces and nephews on Catalina trips. PM me if you have an interest.

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Thanks guys.  If I'm being honest I'm really not up for a huge project (hence passing on the Kaufman 47).  There are a bunch of appealing cats in the Caribbean/FL, but almost all closer to $120k+ to start.  Shipping (delivery not feasible now) is another $23k, and they all need at least $20k of work, so realistically well over my budget - not to mention the fact that 95% or cats seem to be incompatible with my height & it's almost impossible to figure that out without stepping aboard.  

Never thought I'd get here but really leaning toward a MoBo+dinghy at this point.  Family wants easy overnights & comfy trips to the islands.  Am concerned about the motion so may try to charter first.  No real need to suffer through a beam sea given our prevailing NW swell, so that'll help.  

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I might bring up a point, here.  Even if you buy a 46 foot, super-comfy, big stereo, 4-stateroom, ginormous galley powerboat.... REALLY?

...in a year, will your family want to go out on that?  I'm dead serious. Will they do 4 trips for the novelty of it and then..."been there, done that, on Dad's boat"... and find other things to do?

'cause it would truly suck to spend $80-$90K on a huge boat, with all the ongoing expenses associated with it, only to have the kids be a whole, whole lot more interested in going to a rock concert with their friends, and the wife rolling her eyes at the very suggestion of a 3-day weekend at Catalina,  six months out.  Honestly, do your kids WANT to go boating at all?  Is your wife going with you out of "obligations", but in fact she'd a hundred times rather stay at home and relax by the pool?  Is the usual .."I don't like tipping over!"... a statement that "I'd love to go out on the water on a boat that doesn't tip over!!"...or is it a statement about how they'd really rather be doing anything else, period?

Go look at the thread about "My sons $1 boat gets a refit".  Would your kids do that? Would they get into a boat and shine it up and sand and paint it themselves?  I'm not saying your kids are bad kids, if they wouldn't ,  OK?  This stuff isn't for everyone.  I just think that for you to go get a boat that you don't really like in the hopes that your family will go out with you more than a few times, is potentially a big mistake.

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Think about what YOU WANT.

Do you want to spend time with your kids?   That's a good thing to want!  We all know that teens and early 20's kids generally  (with some exceptions) think their parents are idiots, and only spend time with them when obliged to do so.  The best way to get them to spend time with you is to do something together that you both like.   You can do a hell of a lot of family vacations, movies, concerts and whatnot for  $100,000. There are a zillion ways to spend time with your kids and NOT make them get on a boat, if they really don't give a rip about being on a boat.  Trying to force them to get on a boat, when what they really want is to go to the concert with their friends,  or down to the beach to flirt with the girls/boys is just an exercise in helping them learn how to make up creative excuses.

The exact same thing goes for your wife.  You could squire her off to locations around the West, every six weeks for 4-day weekends together, for a HELL of a lot less than what it costs to berth and maintain a 45-foot powerboat that you don't really want.

Take the ferry over to Catalina once a year,  put everybody in four-star hotel rooms, hike and swim around the island and it will cost you a buttload less than the maintenance on that huge powerboat that you don't want.

Do YOU WANT to go sailing? Great!  How about an Olson 30?  How about something you can dry-sail and daysail, like...I dunno, a Capri 25 or something.

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Ya know Socal, I was about to chime in and say what Alan H has said.  If your kids/wife didn't get into/don't like sailing on the 405, which was a great sailing boat...maybe there just not really boaters.  I too worry that your are going to buy a big ass Catamaran or Trawler, and find out in 6 months time that your family really doesn't want to be on that boat either....and then you will just be "stuck" with a boat you never really wanted either.

I like the idea of a MoBo charter.  Maybe like a half dozen or more, representing how you would really use such a boat (every other weekend???) to see how long they really like it. A little bit, I'm stuck in the same situation.  I bought a "cruiser" boat than I was inclined to buy because my wife wanted a aft cabin we could sleep together in.  So we have a Bene First 310.  Not a bad boat, but not my first choice of boats either.  Now, she's not so inclined to go to "my boat".  Sailing is no longer her thing.  It used to be.  She took Mids offshore on Navy 44s when she taught at USNA, and we had a J/109 that we were on/raced almost every weekend, plus a weekend beercaned too.  She helped teach my older kids to love sailing.  And all three of them do.   But now...not as much her thing.  And because its not as much her thing, the 12 year old really wants to fish, not sail.  Both will go if I "encourage" them, and both have a reasonably good time, so there are some positive signs...but at least its only a 28K boat, not a 100+k boat.

I'd just hate to see you totally compromise, thinking you're making them happy, only to find out that no one is really happy....most esp. you!

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My mind reels at the notion of not being happy 'cuz it's too cold and too tippy on a Beneteau 405 or a Catalina 42. I mean, those are nice FFF'ing boats.  I'd "get it" if you were dragging them down to the Cal 20, you know? THAT is tippy and cold.  But C'mon SoCal...  A Catalina 42?  That's the lap of freaking luxury.

I have a challenge for you.  One at a time, corner your wife and kids and ask them to write down 12-15 things that they really like to do. Hand them a pen and a pad of paper and ask them.

See if "going boating" ... or  "going sailing" is on the list. If it's not, then I'd strongly suggest that you go get a boat FOR YOU to sail, and if one or more of your kids or the Mrs wants to come along, they will find a way to let you know. Then find some commonality between all those lists, and spend some resources on taking your family on THOSE kinds of things.

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I’ve been thinking about how I’d use a boat for the short term and now see myself trying to get from where I live (Darien) to my YC on E-LIS or just short cruises to Block or Nantucket. Extended cruises are not happening because my wife has a TBI and can’t be left alone.  Afternoon sails or races have near zero probability.  I am always going to need to do 80nm or thereabouts most days.   Regardless of rain or wind speed/direction.  Given this I want more than 4HP per ton and a warm/dry steering station.  

Am thinking NC44.  Will be dry.  They are cheap and the truth is I will always be motor sailing to get from point A to point B before dark. if the wind is over 15kts and behind the beam then great.  I’ll sail.  Otherwise the motor will be on for sure. I think that’s true whether I own a NC or a J-130 etc.  


I can’t afford to get sun and assume that the AP will be driving 100% of the time outside of harbor. Hate the hydraulic steering though.  

A deck salon or pilot house are non-negotiable for a sailboat or motorsailer. Either way, I don’t want to be in a dark box when inside the boat.  The NC44 provides a great indoor salon with lots of light and visibility at the cost of windage.

The worst part would be the shame of owning one.  Have to be the ugliest boats made in Scandinavia.  They are cheap, though. 

Thinking about it but it’s like admitting to loving ABBA or porn. Embarrassing but it might make me happier than sitting in the rain in order to get home, repeatedly.  


Am thinking of how one might make storm door panels for the two cabin side companionways to make them water tight and Ocean Class A certifiable.  I have also thought about running some sheets and trav controls inside the cabin.  The loads are not too high.  Main is only 325 sa/ft.  Would also consider a re-power.  

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10 hours ago, Crash said:

I'd just hate to see you totally compromise, thinking you're making them happy, only to find out that no one is really happy....most esp. you!

 

6 hours ago, Alan H said:

My mind reels at the notion of not being happy 'cuz it's too cold and too tippy on a Beneteau 405 or a Catalina 42. I mean, those are nice FFF'ing boats.  I'd "get it" if you were dragging them down to the Cal 20, you know? THAT is tippy and cold.  But C'mon SoCal...  A Catalina 42?  That's the lap of freaking luxury.

Thanks for the thoughts guys.  I've had several long discussions with the fam on all this.  What it comes down to is not a lack of "luxury" on these very nice boats; all of the things we were looking to change on the 405 were related to the use of the boat - an extra cabin, bigger cockpit, swim step, lines out of the cockpit.  Our trip on the C42 (which had all of those things) drove home to me that the #1 thing they didn't like on the 405 was... that it was a sailboat.  

The times we've had the most fun as a family have been at anchor.  *I* have very much enjoyed the sailing part, but I've also loved the "boating" part.  I am more than willing to give up the sailing to enable more of the boating and keep everyone happy.  What the family really wants is a vacation home that can be moved occasionally.

I looked at a bunch of powerboats with the whole family this past couple weeks & found one that all five of us love (first time that's happened): we just put an offer in on a gorgeous and well-kept 40yr old 41' Taiwan-built trawler well below our budget cap.  It has more exterior wood than I'd like but she's a proper little yacht that I'd be proud to own, and has simple systems (FL120's) and enough tankage (400g ea water/diesel) to get up and down the West Coast at 8kts as we please, drop the hook and camp out for weeks on end.  The interior and deck space is simply amazing compared to any sailboat I've ever been on.  Typical problem areas (decks, windows, tanks) for these boats seem to have been addressed but will make sure in survey.  

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OK, then!   I hope that all works out for you and your family has a blast on the trawler!

..."extra cabin, bigger cockpit, swim step, lines out of the cockpit. "............... " the #1 thing they didn't like on the 405 was... that it was a sailboat.  "

I think you've figured this out!

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Good for you, Socal. Assuming your trawler has a crane you can have the option of a sailing tender on the cabin top? That would be my solution. It's funny, but very much like Crash said upthread, my wife has lost her enthusiasm for sailing and we are talking about a lady who loved, and I mean LOVED, going out on our 33 footer in 40 kts. The odd thing is she won't tolerate a power boat or cat because she still loves sailboats, just not sailing. Our saving grace is our kids are avid sailors and our daughter's husband is very experienced so the wife is still motivated to go out just to enjoy being out with them. And the daughter has already planned out the steps to start our new grandaughter out right from the git go, so we won't be selling our boat any time soon.

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Thanks again all - this has been a very helpful thread.  

The CHB has a mast & crane, as well as davits.  It doesn't have a huge Europa-style flybridge for dinghy storage, and the decks are broken up into several levels, so I'll have some thinking to do about how to configure everything.  The swim step needs to be replaced, and I don't like the davits, so I'll be re-working the whole system.  I may store the sailing dinghy on the transom and do an air floor inflatable.  A smaller sailing dinghy might fit on the aft cabin top... we'll see.  

Here's a link to the vessel if anyone's curious: full survey (engine/oil too) scheduled for next week.  Very excited!

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1979/chb-aft-cabin-3675027/

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35 minutes ago, socalrider said:

Here's a link to the vessel if anyone's curious: full survey (engine/oil too) scheduled for next week.  Very excited!

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1979/chb-aft-cabin-3675027/

I should also note: from my research the problem areas on these boats are: decks, windows, and tanks.  Survey will confirm, but the windows (leak stains on interior) appear to have been dealt with & I spent a fair bit of time tapping and poking around, didn't find soft spots.  Decks also appear to be in very good shape & should last for many more years.  One tank rusted due to a leaking water heater & was replaced ($$$).  The other was inspected and found to be fine (will confirm).  Fingers crossed the survey doesn't turn up any additional surprises.  

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40 minutes ago, socalrider said:

Thanks again all - this has been a very helpful thread.  

The CHB has a mast & crane, as well as davits.  It doesn't have a huge Europa-style flybridge for dinghy storage, and the decks are broken up into several levels, so I'll have some thinking to do about how to configure everything.  The swim step needs to be replaced, and I don't like the davits, so I'll be re-working the whole system.  I may store the sailing dinghy on the transom and do an air floor inflatable.  A smaller sailing dinghy might fit on the aft cabin top... we'll see.  

Here's a link to the vessel if anyone's curious: full survey (engine/oil too) scheduled for next week.  Very excited!

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1979/chb-aft-cabin-3675027/

Nice boat. Welcome to the dark side. 

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1 hour ago, no shoes said:
2 hours ago, socalrider said:

Thanks again all - this has been a very helpful thread.  

The CHB has a mast & crane, as well as davits.  It doesn't have a huge Europa-style flybridge for dinghy storage, and the decks are broken up into several levels, so I'll have some thinking to do about how to configure everything.  The swim step needs to be replaced, and I don't like the davits, so I'll be re-working the whole system.  I may store the sailing dinghy on the transom and do an air floor inflatable.  A smaller sailing dinghy might fit on the aft cabin top... we'll see.  

Here's a link to the vessel if anyone's curious: full survey (engine/oil too) scheduled for next week.  Very excited!

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1979/chb-aft-cabin-3675027/

Nice boat. Welcome to the dark side. 

Excellent pick for size/price/function; good luck with the survey & trial.

Engine oil analysis is a great tool. Check the temp of the exhaust elbow after ten minutes or so at full power, too. It may have been replaced already, I invested in a set of new heat exchangers and SS exhaust injection elbow for our trawler (which has since been sold to a new happy owner).

FB- Doug

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36 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Excellent pick for size/price/function; good luck with the survey & trial.

Engine oil analysis is a great tool. Check the temp of the exhaust elbow after ten minutes or so at full power, too. It may have been replaced already, I invested in a set of new heat exchangers and SS exhaust injection elbow for our trawler (which has since been sold to a new happy owner).

FB- Doug

Thanks.  It was really tough to find a 3-stateroom layout - 95% of the boats out there are 2-staterooms.  There were a bunch with three berths in the aft cabin which could have worked, but certainly much nicer to be in a walkaround queen with the wife than up in the v-berth.  

New to powerboats, so looking forward to the survey - got good recommendations on the guy doing it.  The one I'd normally use was out of the running because the boat is owned by his daughter!  Figured that's as good a sign as any!

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7 minutes ago, Alan H said:

Go get that Wavelength 24 that's been for sale in Craigslist for a while.  $4k....pfffttt...

I would but it won't fit on the cabin top!  

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30 minutes ago, Alan H said:

You just need bigger davits!!

Or I could convert it to a nesting design like the PT-11.  Can't be that hard, right?  

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  • 2 months later...

Thought I'd close this thread out with a quick update: the sale went through & we closed early June.  I spent a couple of months getting to know her,  fixing some issues & getting her ready for a modest 2-week cruise around Catalina, which we completed last week.  

It was glorious - I have to say, this boat met and exceeded all of our criteria.  The wife and kids are incredibly happy.  With 400 gallons of water, we were able to stay out for 2 weeks comfortably, taking quick showers in the master bath sit-down tub to rinse off the saltwater and sweat.  Tons of room for stores, and we even took our 75lb greyhound and three mice along for the ride.  

The passage to windward took us 9 hours (in the Beneteau last year it was 12), and the return trip took just 8 (was 13 last year).  More importantly, we were massively more comfortable both ways, with no seasickness on the way back, and just a bit from our youngest on the way up.  As with last year, there were really no good opportunities to make progress under sail.  

I miss the ability to go for an afternoon day sail, but the rest of my family doesn't.  We're spending a lot more time on the boat than we did in the past, and I don't have to drag the kids out kicking and screaming anymore.  For us, this was clearly the right move.  

WhatsApp Image 2020-08-11 at 8.15.09 AM.jpeg

WhatsApp Image 2020-08-11 at 8.14.21 AM.jpeg

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I remember Socalrider posting on another thread about only putting 20 gallons in the fuel tank for over 2 years of daysailing his 40 foot sailboat.   The new boat probably doesn't do quite as well.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, slap said:

I remember Socalrider posting on another thread about only putting 20 gallons in the fuel tank for over 2 years of daysailing his 40 foot sailboat.   The new boat probably doesn't do quite as well.

 

 

But if you do the math, $'s per mile, diesel vs. decent race sails is a toss-up.

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3 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

But if you do the math, $'s per mile, diesel vs. decent race sails is a toss-up.

Daysailing and cruising around with the family doesn't take race sails.  Cheaper sails + less frequently replaced = much less expensive.

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5 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

But if you do the math, $'s per mile, diesel vs. decent race sails is a toss-up.

I did a ton of thinking & math about this.  I'd rather have gotten a single Lehman 120 for 30-40% better economy, but very hard to find.  I don't have great data on our trawler's fuel consumption, but it's on the order of 2NMPG.  On our 2 week trip, we motored for around 20 hours, and burned somewhere near 80 gallons of diesel, versus about 20-25 gallons for the sailboat last year.  This seems to be pretty consistent with other similar boats' fuel consumption.  

If you are crossing oceans, the 3-4x fuel consumption makes a huge difference.  For us, an extra 55 gallons of fuel for a trip we'll do 2-3x per year is really in the noise.  

For comparison's sake, our trawler burns about as much per hour as our Honda minivan on the freeway.  So a trip to Catalina is about as much as a trip to SF from San Diego (8-9hrs each way).  Fuel consumption from airline travel is even worse than the minivan for a family of 5.  

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