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Flying Tiger hanging by the rudder


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Has anyone still got a copy of the photo taken in the factory of an FT10 suspended by the rudder pintles? IIRC it was after the first couple of boats achieved warp 10 and the ass fell off...

 

A friend’s brother bought a Tiger recently so I’m educating him on how the design came to be.

 

Thanks in advance.

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7 hours ago, Terrorvision said:
11 hours ago, marcus brutus said:

Just one of many urban legends regarding FT10M; it never happened.

 

7 hours ago, Terrorvision said:

If only that was true. People were there. people saw it. Someone posted it.

 

Obviously you have problems reading and comprehending English language.

My response "Just one of many urban legends regarding FT10M; it never happened." was to the false claim that "IIRC it was after the first couple of boats achieved warp 10 and the ass fell off..."

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8 hours ago, marcus brutus said:

 

 

Obviously you have problems reading and comprehending English language.

My response "Just one of many urban legends regarding FT10M; it never happened." was to the false claim that "IIRC it was after the first couple of boats achieved warp 10 and the ass fell off..."

As English isn't my native language you would possibly be surprised that even I know that the subject of the post was in regards to, 'Flying Tiger hanging by the rudder'. This was confirmed in the first sentence of the post in which the primary question was posed, 'Has anyone still got a copy of the photo taken in the factory of an FT10 suspended by the rudder pintles?'

By dint of starting with, 'IIRC' the second sentence was framed as supposition and not subject so your belligerence in claiming that your response was to the latter half is smoke and mirrors to the fact that it is, in fact, you who has problems reading and comprehending the English language.
 

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2 hours ago, Terrorvision said:

As English isn't my native language you would possibly be surprised that even I know that the subject of the post was in regards to, 'Flying Tiger hanging by the rudder'. This was confirmed in the first sentence of the post in which the primary question was posed, 'Has anyone still got a copy of the photo taken in the factory of an FT10 suspended by the rudder pintles?'

By dint of starting with, 'IIRC' the second sentence was framed as supposition and not subject so your belligerence in claiming that your response was to the latter half is smoke and mirrors to the fact that it is, in fact, you who has problems reading and     comprehending the English language.

 

Don't be so thin skinned and easily offended, effendi, just because you failed to comprehend what I posted.

I just gave you a baksheesh by awarding your nonsensical post with a positive rating to calm you down. 

You should try reading my original reply to Jason again in which I intentionally only quoted  "IIRC it was after the first couple of boats achieved warp 10 and the ass fell off..."  to which I replied "Just one of many urban legends regarding FT10M; it never happened."

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23 hours ago, marcus brutus said:

 

Don't be so thin skinned and easily offended, effendi, just because you failed to comprehend what I posted.

I just gave you a baksheesh by awarding your nonsensical post with a positive rating to calm you down. 

You should try reading my original reply to Jason again (I have again now...) in which I intentionally only quoted  "IIRC it was after the first couple of boats achieved warp 10 and the ass fell off..."  to which I replied "Just one of many urban legends regarding FT10M; it never happened."

You are correct, I misconstrued the context of the quote you highlighted.

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8 hours ago, Cristoforo said:

Back on topic.. Yes I have the photo and will sell it to you for $100. Cash first. 

Fair warning... https://www.reddit.com/r/choosingbeggars

 

I’m a single mother with two kids, and I promised my son this photo for his birthday. I can’t afford $100 but told my son you’d give him the photo. Now he’s crying because you want payment. You’re a monster! So... can you deliver the photo to my house, with a 60 inch plasma TV because you made my child cry.

 

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1 minute ago, Jason AUS said:

Fair warning... https://www.reddit.com/r/choosingbeggars

 

I’m a single mother with two kids, and I promised my son this photo for his birthday. I can’t afford $100 but told my son you’d give him the photo. Now he’s crying because you want payment. You’re a monster! So... can you deliver the photo to my house, with a 60 inch plasma TV because you made my child cry.

 

Tell that little Sheila to toughen up 

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On 3/8/2020 at 4:06 AM, Jason AUS said:

Has anyone still got a copy of the photo taken in the factory of an FT10 suspended by the rudder pintles? IIRC it was after the first couple of boats achieved warp 10 and the ass fell off...

 

A friend’s brother bought a Tiger recently so I’m educating him on how the design came to be.

 

Thanks in advance.

I have 2  photos.

How much are they worth to you?

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12 hours ago, marcus brutus said:

I have 2  photos.

How much are they worth to you?

I shouldn’t have to ask, but this is Sailing Anarchy.... what are the photos of?

 

I’m not interested if they’re nude photos of Mr. Clean. I’ve already got those.

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6 hours ago, Jason AUS said:

I shouldn’t have to ask, but this is Sailing Anarchy.... what are the photos of?

 

I’m not interested if they’re nude photos of Mr. Clean. I’ve already got those.

My answer quoted your inquiry:
"Has anyone still got a copy of the photo taken in the factory of an FT10 suspended by the rudder pintles?"

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21 hours ago, marcus brutus said:

My answer quoted your inquiry:
"Has anyone still got a copy of the photo taken in the factory of an FT10 suspended by the rudder pintles?"

Valid. But you can’t be too careful round these parts.

 

How on earth did you find the images? They seriously seemed lost forever?

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1 hour ago, Jason AUS said:
5 hours ago, marcus brutus said:

It is spelled T-E-N-A-C-I-T-Y !

How much is the picture worth to you?

 

1 hour ago, Jason AUS said:

Nothing if you’re going to be a dick about it.

 

Not even a kind word?

Apparently you do not appreciate the tenacity in others since it is obvious that you have none; having easily given up the search for the picture of an FT suspended by the rudder pintles.

 

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12 hours ago, marcus brutus said:

 

 

Not even a kind word?

Apparently you do not appreciate the tenacity in others since it is obvious that you have none; having easily given up the search for the picture of an FT suspended by the rudder pintles.

 

Well, given that when I messaged them (asking politely) a number of souls (including the Ed and Bob Perry) went looking and drew a blank you appear to have bested them all. Bravo sir.

 

I say appear, as hard evidence is yet to be forthcoming. Until then, sir... you are Trumpian in your triumph.

 

But build ye wall, proveth me wrong and I’ll be downright humble and sincere in my thanks.

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5 hours ago, Jason AUS said:
17 hours ago, marcus brutus said:

Not even a kind word?

Apparently you do not appreciate the tenacity in others since it is obvious that you have none; having easily given up the search for the picture of an FT suspended by the rudder pintle

5 hours ago, Jason AUS said:

Well, given that when I messaged them (asking politely) a number of souls (including the Ed and Bob Perry) went looking and drew a blank you appear to have bested them all. Bravo sir.

I say appear, as hard evidence is yet to be forthcoming. Until then, sir... you are Trumpian in your triumph.

But build ye wall, proveth me wrong and I’ll be downright humble and sincere in my thanks.

 

5 hours ago, Jason AUS said:

 

http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?/topic/44963-tiger-by-the-tail/

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 3/9/2020 at 9:29 AM, marcus brutus said:

 

Don't be so thin skinned and easily offended, effendi, just because you failed to comprehend what I posted.

I just gave you a baksheesh by awarding your nonsensical post with a positive rating to calm you down. 

You should try reading my original reply to Jason again in which I intentionally only quoted  "IIRC it was after the first couple of boats achieved warp 10 and the ass fell off..."  to which I replied "Just one of many urban legends regarding FT10M; it never happened."

I recall the photo, as do many here. The problem is that you’re kind of an asshole. Nobody really wants to help you. Make of that what you want. 

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Brutus - Don't know who you are nor your direct connection to the Tiger Pride, but perhaps you should temper your slander of SoCal sailors in the group.  Like myself, many were there at the birth of the Class in early design stages with Robert and without that group the class may have never happened.  Perhaps you should be familiar with my other posts in vehement support of the strength of the boat both inshore and offshore.  To be sure, the cassette was a - maybe the - weakpoint and along with the rudder and tiller were immediately replaced on Mile High Klub that was sailed in the fleet for 10 full years.  I left the class in 2018, but don't recall seeing an original cassette on any Tiger still actively racing in SoCal, for good reason.  The same group that you diss has spent many years of time and money supporting the birth of the class and racing up and down the SoCal coast since 2007.  And what has your contribution been?

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5 hours ago, Bulga Naba said:

Brutus - Don't know who you are nor your direct connection to the Tiger Pride, but perhaps you should temper your slander of SoCal sailors in the group.  Like myself, many were there at the birth of the Class in early design stages with Robert and without that group the class may have never happened.  Perhaps you should be familiar with my other posts in vehement support of the strength of the boat both inshore and offshore.  To be sure, the cassette was a - maybe the - weakpoint and along with the rudder and tiller were immediately replaced on Mile High Klub that was sailed in the fleet for 10 full years.  I left the class in 2018, but don't recall seeing an original cassette on any Tiger still actively racing in SoCal, for good reason.  The same group that you diss has spent many years of time and money supporting the birth of the class and racing up and down the SoCal coast since 2007.  And what has your contribution been?

My contributions have always been objectivity and honesty.

Cassette failure occurred on hulls #7 and #8 at the vary first FT10 race in San Diego. Material analysis revealed that the factory had not followed Ben' s layup schedule.

DA MAN  immediately replaced all existing cassettes with properly laid up cassettes. None of the original rudders ever failed.

The California FT10 owners used the original cassette failure as a tool to get local PHRF to allow c/f rudders as replacement without a rating penalty, even though the replacement rudders were ~65 lbs lighter and supposedly better design. Never mind the fact that no owner is crazy enough to spend thousands of dollars to go slower.

Two motions were introduced: 1. to allow c/f rudders as class legal and 2. to add correction weight to boats using c/f rudders in order to equalize them with boats using original rudder.

As one would expect with majority of voting owners being from the West Coast, #1 motion was adopted while #2 motion was rejected; both by a single vote margin. That was the end of the FT10 as a one design class; it became just another PHRF boat.

It may be of interest to note that even before the vote there were FT10s racing with illegal c/f rudders designed by Tim Kernan or Jim Betts; some owners had purchased both Kernan and Betts rudders.

Now to help you grow some thicker skin, here is a joke for you.

What are 3 big lies in California?  Check is in the mail ! Car is paid for !  It's only a cold sore !

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23 hours ago, marcus brutus said:

My contributions have always been objectivity and honesty.

Cassette failure occurred on hulls #7 and #8 at the vary first FT10 race in San Diego. Material analysis revealed that the factory had not followed Ben' s layup schedule.

DA MAN  immediately replaced all existing cassettes with properly laid up cassettes. None of the original rudders ever failed.

The California FT10 owners used the original cassette failure as a tool to get local PHRF to allow c/f rudders as replacement without a rating penalty, even though the replacement rudders were ~65 lbs lighter and supposedly better design. Never mind the fact that no owner is crazy enough to spend thousands of dollars to go slower.

Two motions were introduced: 1. to allow c/f rudders as class legal and 2. to add correction weight to boats using c/f rudders in order to equalize them with boats using original rudder.

As one would expect with majority of voting owners being from the West Coast, #1 motion was adopted while #2 motion was rejected; both by a single vote margin. That was the end of the FT10 as a one design class; it became just another PHRF boat.

It may be of interest to note that even before the vote there were FT10s racing with illegal c/f rudders designed by Tim Kernan or Jim Betts; some owners had purchased both Kernan and Betts rudders.

Now to help you grow some thicker skin, here is a joke for you.

What are 3 big lies in California?  Check is in the mail ! Car is paid for !  It's only a cold sore !

You really do whine a lot. 

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On 4/4/2020 at 12:38 PM, marcus brutus said:

My contributions have always been objectivity and honesty.

Cassette failure occurred on hulls #7 and #8 at the vary first FT10 race in San Diego. Material analysis revealed that the factory had not followed Ben' s layup schedule.

DA MAN  immediately replaced all existing cassettes with properly laid up cassettes. None of the original rudders ever failed.

The California FT10 owners used the original cassette failure as a tool to get local PHRF to allow c/f rudders as replacement without a rating penalty, even though the replacement rudders were ~65 lbs lighter and supposedly better design. Never mind the fact that no owner is crazy enough to spend thousands of dollars to go slower.

Two motions were introduced: 1. to allow c/f rudders as class legal and 2. to add correction weight to boats using c/f rudders in order to equalize them with boats using original rudder.

As one would expect with majority of voting owners being from the West Coast, #1 motion was adopted while #2 motion was rejected; both by a single vote margin. That was the end of the FT10 as a one design class; it became just another PHRF boat.

It may be of interest to note that even before the vote there were FT10s racing with illegal c/f rudders designed by Tim Kernan or Jim Betts; some owners had purchased both Kernan and Betts rudders.

Now to help you grow some thicker skin, here is a joke for you.

What are 3 big lies in California?  Check is in the mail ! Car is paid for !  It's only a cold sore !

The old rudder cassette was good for an emergency rudder for coastal/offshore. The old rudder flexed so much it was parallel to the water's surface reaching and upwind. Downwind it was useless as well. The thing is an over heavy bendy piece of shit. You wanna run a motorcycle with bicycle tires go for it but don't whine about a bunch of folks agreeing to replace a mistake with a solution. 

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1 hour ago, Horse Hockey said:

The old rudder cassette was good for an emergency rudder for coastal/offshore. The old rudder flexed so much it was parallel to the water's surface reaching and upwind. Downwind it was useless as well. The thing is an over heavy bendy piece of shit. You wanna run a motorcycle with bicycle tires go for it but don't whine about a bunch of folks agreeing to replace a mistake with a solution. 

I didn't think that it was possible, but you trumped the orange baboon in chief with your lies.

Prior to voting on replacement rudders, FT10 owners requested that your ilk prove how much the original rudder deflected under load, if at all. Obviously no one ever provided an iota of evidence to support that urban legend and none of the original rudders ever broke.

The fact remains that the majority of FT10s that are successfully sailing all over the world are using original cassette and rudder,  Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

FT10s stopped being one design long time ago; they are PHRF boats. Those of you who search for the Holly Grail by collecting PHRF pickle dishes were and still are the true whiners.

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One of the issues with the original FT10 rudder was that it would ventilate (some say cavitate) while going down wind in a breeze - causing the rudder to stall.  The newer rudders projected forward of the transom, under the boat, which was suppose to prevent/delay air being sucked down the low pressure side of the rudder and balance the rudder.  (https://www.jbeinc.com/resources/downloads/FT10M_Rudder_Specs.pdf).  My experience was that the new rudder was better and we did not experience as much rudder stall.  It was also nice to not have to lift the old heavy rudder to put in the cassette and/or wedge the old rudder in the cassette so it wouldn't wobble in the cassette.  

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5 hours ago, Team Subterfuge said:

One of the issues with the original FT10 rudder was that it would ventilate (some say cavitate) while going down wind in a breeze - causing the rudder to stall.  The newer rudders projected forward of the transom, under the boat, which was suppose to prevent/delay air being sucked down the low pressure side of the rudder and balance the rudder.  (https://www.jbeinc.com/resources/downloads/FT10M_Rudder_Specs.pdf).  My experience was that the new rudder was better and we did not experience as much rudder stall.  It was also nice to not have to lift the old heavy rudder to put in the cassette and/or wedge the old rudder in the cassette so it wouldn't wobble in the cassette.  

Yet another urban legend with a huge "supposed to" and ''did not experience as much  rudder stall" qualifiers, that majority of owners who are still sailing FT10s worldwide with the original cassette and rudder soundly rejected  v.1, v.2, v.3, and v.4 replacements, saving  beaucoup bucks.

Those short sighted Self serving owners, in pursuit of PHRF pickle dishes who rejected the proposal to add equalizer weights to the boats with c/f rudders destroyed the FT10 one design class that had the potential to be just as much popular as J/105.

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On 4/5/2020 at 6:24 PM, marcus brutus said:

I didn't think that it was possible, but you trumped the orange baboon in chief with your lies.

Prior to voting on replacement rudders, FT10 owners requested that your ilk prove how much the original rudder deflected under load, if at all. Obviously no one ever provided an iota of evidence to support that urban legend and none of the original rudders ever broke.

The fact remains that the majority of FT10s that are successfully sailing all over the world are using original cassette and rudder,  Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

FT10s stopped being one design long time ago; they are PHRF boats. Those of you who search for the Holly Grail by collecting PHRF pickle dishes were and still are the true whiners.

Oh jeez, you're right. Sorry I lied.  Thanks for setting that straight.

Just for fun, would you indulge all us liars on your idea of the word "successfully."  I am stupidly curious about your notion of what that means. This should be entertaining.  

We will wait patiently smoking our pipes as you asked, while you are doing your homework assignment. Run along now.

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I can’t help but wonder, is Marcus Brutus the same asshole who used to go by AKAGeorge?  There weren’t that many FT owners in Chicago, and most of them weren’t obnoxious assclowns, so it just seems kind of likely. 

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22 minutes ago, marcus brutus said:

Someone recently observed the following regarding Monkey:

"So much talk about stupidity and Einsteinism, monkey. Keep evolving to a human being. :lol:"

Avoiding the question?

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27 minutes ago, Monkey said:

Avoiding the question?

Aren't you that whiney cheap skate loser without a pot to piss in and a window to throw it out who whined the following ?
"I love racing sporty one designs, just prefer it on someone else's dime. On top of that, it gets harder every year to round up crew." 

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30 minutes ago, bigorangething said:

How many people could possibly be this angry and from Chicago?  Has to be George

I imagine that out of 3,000,000 individuals there is probably a significant number who are quite angry.

 With only 12 posts, an infinitely more interesting question is who's sock puppet are you?

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2 hours ago, marcus brutus said:

Aren't you that whiney cheap skate loser without a pot to piss in and a window to throw it out who whined the following ?
"I love racing sporty one designs, just prefer it on someone else's dime. On top of that, it gets harder every year to round up crew." 

Actually, I make pretty good money now. House is almost paid off, car and truck paid off, new boat on the way, I guess I’m doing just fine. Fuck off George. 

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You are right; it costs a whole lot less to go fishing than go sailboat racing with a crew.

Glad that you are doing well. Do let us know how you come out of the recession / depression that we are entering now.

Apparently you missed the memo that this is no time to buy a new boat.

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19 minutes ago, marcus brutus said:

You are right; it costs a whole lot less to go fishing than go sailboat racing with a crew.

Glad that you are doing well. Do let us know how you come out of the recession / depression that we are entering now.

Apparently you missed the memo that this is no time to buy a new boat.

I’ll do just fine. It’s nice having a career with job security, even in times like this. 

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13 hours ago, CazzaRanda said:

Classic FT10 forum shitfight... never thought I'd be missing one of those, but 14 years later I actually do.

Must be the lockdown...

Cazza! 

2036056555_ScreenShot2020-04-10at11_16_52PM.thumb.png.9738c7f01b313822d379b7e8c93d6dd8.png

Please don’t misunderstand and think we’re bagging on the FT10. Those things give a fun factor to price almost unrivaled in that size range. 

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20 hours ago, Hugh Janus said:

rudder cassette, mast step, engine door cover....many teething issues...but the boat was really cheap...

 

and, you know what they say about a cheap boat....

 

...let me try. That is a fast boat? 

 

1066213053_ScreenShot2020-04-12at11_37_36AM.thumb.png.7ae2dd8d1c4ee39b7067b14d4e070dde.png

 

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18 hours ago, CazzaRanda said:

 

...let me try. That is a fast boat? 

 

1066213053_ScreenShot2020-04-12at11_37_36AM.thumb.png.7ae2dd8d1c4ee39b7067b14d4e070dde.png

 

dude, the class went nowhere....the boat was built like shit, and ended up on the trash heap...

 

a few owners totally pimped their half-ass boats, and the rest of the owners, who bought a cheap boat watched and bitched, as a couple owners laughed....great class...not.

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On 4/11/2020 at 5:28 PM, Hugh Janus said:

and, you know what they say about a cheap boat....

... the same thing as what they say about cheap whores?

Spewing b. s. on Political Anarchy, it appears that you are an expert on that subject.

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I bought #41 new and was quite please with the boat.  Had a few things to fix, but at the price point I expected it.  Had the makings of a good class then things went off the rails.  I would say that was mostly due to there being no organized structure in the class.  Everyone just got on SA and said whatever they wanted starting all kinds of pissing matches,  want a new rudder, I don't want dacron sails,  I want George to cut his hair!!  lol.  For the most part I enjoyed the people involved in the class and boat.  I though it was a great sailing boat, I really should have kept it longer.  LONG LIVE THE FT10.  Haters gonna hate.

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who the fuck is george?

all i saw was a bunch of cheapskate boat owners, with a certain editor who wanted to win and made "repairs and improvements" that ended up making some boats more competitive than others...

and the builder was a crazy man...but was certainly entertaining

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Why so angry?  I think it was a bunch of boat owners who got invested in a boat.  Had a good time with it.  End of story.  This goes on in every one design class "repairs and improvements" that ended up making some boats more competitive than others...  My .02 cents

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19 hours ago, port tack said:

Why so angry?  I think it was a bunch of boat owners who got invested in a boat.  Had a good time with it.  End of story. ...

yup, end of story...over...glad you enjoyed it!

 

happily, i've been active in real OD classes with long and active lives...stars, finns, lasers, lightnings.....where the rules actually meant something, and the crappy builders got tossed out with the trash in due time...

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16 minutes ago, jackolantern said:

A former Flying Tiger owner who would throw his crews sandwiches overboard if they didn't perform in a way that pleased him and loomed over this forum like an angry, vile, ghoul.

oh.....now i recall....he was a pistol....

no wonder the class died an ugly death...

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8 hours ago, Hugh Janus said:

yup, end of story...over...glad you enjoyed it!

 

happily, i've been active in real OD classes with long and active lives...stars, finns, lasers, lightnings.....where the rules actually meant something, and the crappy builders got tossed out with the trash in due time...

technically speaking not an o.d. class, but I digress...

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On 4/9/2020 at 7:40 PM, Monkey said:

I can’t help but wonder, is Marcus Brutus the same asshole who used to go by AKAGeorge?  There weren’t that many FT owners in Chicago, and most of them weren’t obnoxious assclowns, so it just seems kind of likely. 

Just catching up on this and thought exactly the same thing.

Hi George, :P

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3 hours ago, marcus brutus said:

It appears that you have a serious anal gaping obsession.

Would you post a picture of the "tool" that did your anal gaping?

 

dude...when i posted that hemorrhoid photo i fucking laughed so hard my wife asked what the hell was so funny..... too bad she will never have the same sense of humor...

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On 4/16/2020 at 5:47 PM, Hugh Janus said:

dude...when i posted that hemorrhoid photo i fucking laughed so hard my wife asked what the hell was so funny..... too bad she will never have the same sense of humor...

I sympathize with your wife having endured the huge anus of a husband she should have never married.

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20 hours ago, marcus brutus said:

I sympathize with your wife having endured the huge anus of a husband she should have never married.

good morning georgie....have a wonderful day dude....life can be fun

oh, and i should feel a bit guilty for triggering you...but, i don't

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3 hours ago, newbz01 said:
Quote

It only took a couple days of being locked down for Georgie Porgie to resort to his old ways. 

Who knows, maybe it will get somehow better.

Maybe he just needs a walk in the fresh air.

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Oooh Oooh can we please go back to the early days of arguing about the size and shape of the "windows"  We miss it all.

 

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On 5/9/2020 at 10:47 AM, Bulga Naba said:

Oooh Oooh can we please go back to the early days of arguing about the size and shape of the "windows"  We miss it all.

 

The stupid cabin house and windows were too fucking tall. Even Bob more or less admitted that. You assholes were to blame though, not him. 

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I can't believe that I read to the end of this thread. Must be the isolation although sailing starting to ramp up again in Australia due to our sensible handling of the Covid19 disaster. 

We still have 8 FT10'S racing on Sydney Harbour. Every one of the skippers and crew loves them. 3 of these still use the original cassette and rudder.

There seems to be no discernable difference in performance between the rudder systems. Much bigger difference due to rig set up and sails.

Of the consistently fastest two Tigers one has carbon rudder and one original rudder setup.

Tigers are now very well respected on Sydney Harbour generally and particularly within the SASC super 30 fleet. 

Who said you can not build a boat to be fast fun affordable and durable. Nov will be No 66's 13 th birthday.

Got to love the tiger

 

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