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This is a lovely group of sailing folks. Many of you have wormed your way into my heart (apologies for gratuitous sentimentality). I look at this site everyday. In these strange and frightening times,

This was in the Washington Post recently: https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/coronavirus-is-a-test-that-no-one-knows-how-to-pass/2020/03/13/881a6dfc-6402-11ea-845d-e35b0234b136_story.

We're pulling for you and your gal, Diarmuid!

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54 minutes ago, carcrash said:

My little sister seems to have it. Not a good day.

Sending whatever good there is out there her way.  That sucks.  My sister is a nurse in Portland, hospital has been great to their staff, but they were already re-using single use items last week. Don't know how she will be able to make it out without getting it.  She was already overworked and running on empty before this.

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Apparently, the proper term is "presumptive positive."

My sister had a panel of tests for several different types of flu, and all were negative. Her symptoms match the top several for the cover-19 infection: first low energy, then fever, dry cough, shortness of breath (she needs to take another breath to complete sentences), and now pneumonia.

The test for Covid-19 is limited to health care professionals: normal people cannot get it. In her area, she can get tested when she is in the ICU for symptoms that could be covid-19.

Without the actual test, she is not counted, and not being tracked.

She was told to stay home until she could not walk across a room, and then call 911.

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17 minutes ago, carcrash said:

Apparently, the proper term is "presumptive positive."

My sister had a panel of tests for several different types of flu, and all were negative. Her symptoms match the top several for the cover-19 infection: first low energy, then fever, dry cough, shortness of breath (she needs to take another breath to complete sentences), and now pneumonia.

The test for Covid-19 is limited to health care professionals: normal people cannot get it. In her area, she can get tested when she is in the ICU for symptoms that could be covid-19.

Without the actual test, she is not counted, and not being tracked.

She was told to stay home until she could not walk across a room, and then call 911.

Sorry to hear. 

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44 minutes ago, carcrash said:

Apparently, the proper term is "presumptive positive."

My sister had a panel of tests for several different types of flu, and all were negative. Her symptoms match the top several for the cover-19 infection: first low energy, then fever, dry cough, shortness of breath (she needs to take another breath to complete sentences), and now pneumonia.

The test for Covid-19 is limited to health care professionals: normal people cannot get it. In her area, she can get tested when she is in the ICU for symptoms that could be covid-19.

Without the actual test, she is not counted, and not being tracked.

She was told to stay home until she could not walk across a room, and then call 911.

Good luck carcrash.  

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51 minutes ago, carcrash said:

Apparently, the proper term is "presumptive positive."

My sister had a panel of tests for several different types of flu, and all were negative. Her symptoms match the top several for the cover-19 infection: first low energy, then fever, dry cough, shortness of breath (she needs to take another breath to complete sentences), and now pneumonia.

The test for Covid-19 is limited to health care professionals: normal people cannot get it. In her area, she can get tested when she is in the ICU for symptoms that could be covid-19.

Without the actual test, she is not counted, and not being tracked.

She was told to stay home until she could not walk across a room, and then call 911.

Geez, that sucks. Here's hoping she weathers it well.

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A stay-at-home virtual sailing film for y’all, if you’re interested and stuck at home isolating...

A classic oldie from the National Film Board of Canada, “Singlehanders” https://www.nfb.ca/film/singlehanders/

Follow 2 Canadians, Bob Lush and Mike Birch, aboard their yachts during the 1980 Observer Singlehanded Transatlantic Race. More than a record of this prestigious international sailing event, the resulting film is the starting point for an epic of challenge and determination.”

 

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10 hours ago, carcrash said:

Apparently, the proper term is "presumptive positive."

My sister had a panel of tests for several different types of flu, and all were negative. Her symptoms match the top several for the cover-19 infection: first low energy, then fever, dry cough, shortness of breath (she needs to take another breath to complete sentences), and now pneumonia.

The test for Covid-19 is limited to health care professionals: normal people cannot get it. In her area, she can get tested when she is in the ICU for symptoms that could be covid-19.

Without the actual test, she is not counted, and not being tracked.

She was told to stay home until she could not walk across a room, and then call 911.

Best of luck to her, and to you. Stay safe, all.

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20 hours ago, Bull City said:

I still have some protective gear from my 2015 boat renovation project. Blue gloves, two cheap masks, an ebola suit, and one of those full face ventilators for protection from fumes. Maybe I'll suit up and go to the grocery store.

Another topic: Haircuts. Are barbers still open?

The barber is one of the worst places you can go as far as spreading of COVID-19 is concerned.   

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4 minutes ago, eliboat said:

The barber is one of the worst places you can go as far as spreading of COVID-19 is concerned.   

I agree.

I was fortunate to have my semi-annual dentist visit just before the shit hit the fan.

I may end up with Corona Hair, but at least my teeth will be clean.

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41 minutes ago, Bull City said:

I may end up with Corona Hair, but at least my teeth will be clean.

I was due to go to the hairdresser last week.... My hair will be interesting in 4 or 6 weeks times when we are allowed to go out...

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Heard from my sister, as the news says lots of materials shortages for med staff.  Some hospitals are accepting N95 masks if donated.  If you are sitting on a new supply and can let them go contact your local hospital.  I think people don't realize the volume they have to go thru in the screening process, even cleaning and re using, her hospital is down to 9 cases.

Every little bit helps

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7 minutes ago, SASSAFRASS said:

Heard from my sister, as the news says lots of materials shortages for med staff.  Some hospitals are accepting N95 masks if donated.  If you are sitting on a new supply and can let them go contact your local hospital.  I think people don't realize the volume they have to go thru in the screening process, even cleaning and re using, her hospital is down to 9 cases.

Every little bit helps

Meanwhile, this happened.

https://www.kuow.org/stories/n95-masks-spotted-at-target-in-seattle-meanwhile-hospitals-can-t-find-enough

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It's a logistical shit show, the CDC is recommending they use scarfs and bandanas if necessary?? The hospital won't let them bring anything in themselves, bit they are taking donations that they can inspect.  Lots of red tape. She was pretty pissed about the comments that they were just throwing them away, beyond clueless. One of her co-workers has a autoimmune disorder and is still showing up to work, the health care workers really are the heros out there now.

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Did anybody happen to see Trump's performance at today’s Corona Virus press conference. He sounded like a third rate salesman. His detours into self-aggrandizement and self pity were disgusting.

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15 minutes ago, Bull City said:

Did anybody happen to see Trump's performance at today’s Corona Virus press conference. He sounded like a third rate salesman. His detours into self-aggrandizement and self pity were disgusting.

He can't have his rallies so he's turned the daily C-19 briefing into one.

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That is appalling that your sister cannot get tested, Car Crash. Puts the lie to Trump/Pence assertions. Best wishes for her.

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7 hours ago, SASSAFRASS said:

they were just throwing them away, beyond clueless.

That was yesterday's white house briefing, when Trump was rambling on about how they "just throw these things away" and they should figure out how to sterilize and reuse them.

I think I need to not watch those things live.

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The admiral and I finally got out and away on our boat. Anchored away, quiet, having a cocktail and listening to Sinatra. I put on live news and caught Trumps shit show. Nobody wants to hear anything but the FACTS. He lost me...

I can’t believe in the midst of this challenge he even spends a nanosecond talking about me, me me .....I heard him say (again) “I lost a lot of money becoming president.”  A fucking Savant 

 

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2 hours ago, Bull City said:

Did anybody happen to see Trump's performance at today’s Corona Virus press conference. He sounded like a third rate salesman. His detours into self-aggrandizement and self pity were disgusting.

Well what did you expect?

He IS a third rate salesman - a cheap suit - and always has been.

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16 minutes ago, Woods Rider said:

The admiral and I finally got out and away on our boat. Anchored away, quiet, having a cocktail and listening to Sinatra. I put on live news and caught Trumps shit show. Nobody wants to hear anything but the FACTS. He lost me...

I can’t believe in the midst of this challenge he even spends a nanosecond talking about me, me me .....I heard him say (again) “I lost a lot of money becoming president.”  A fucking Savant

Nope - Savant's are good at something.

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38 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Nope - Savant's are good at something.

He is really really good at something.  I just haven't been able to figure out exactly what it's called.  Gaslighting maybe?  

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On 3/21/2020 at 2:55 PM, Innocent Bystander said:

Yep. With the early spring, I broke out the S2000 yesterday and got it ready for the season. Looked in the mirror at speed at one point and the thin stuff that grew back after chemo reminded me of Bernie on a bad day. Probably going to buzz the center this weekend and go to the “circle of power” haircut. 

Wish I had a better looking head. Wait.  Others will wish I had a better looking head. I’ll just skip mirrors. 

I've got a "Rosie Parks" hat from CBMM I'll let ya have.... 

 

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13 hours ago, Bull City said:

He sounded like a third rate salesman. His detours into self-aggrandizement and self pity were disgusting.

Totally agree, but I am afraid the BS may in the end work with a number of listeners. The best lies have a kernel of truth in them. So that when he says "I wish China had told us sooner," it resonates with some people because China did attempt to downplay the story very early on. (But obviously the Trump admin then chose to ignore and minimize the situation for weeks and weeks after.)

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Nice bit of data from the Financial Times.

As of 1900 GMT yesterday, Sun, March 22, look who apparently has the fastest Covid-19 case trajectory.  Team USA.  Doubling every three days?  [SMH]  An incredible contrast to Japan, for example, another large, rich, industrialized country.  

124FFC25-47C4-4A58-9E55-C372C5136584.jpeg
 

Good, very easy read on the math behind virus spread: 

https://medium.com/@Jason_Scott_Warner/the-sober-math-everyone-must-understand-about-the-pandemic-2b0145881993

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37 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

UK likely has the only trajectory steeper than the red hat one.

Stands to reason with Boris being such a Trump Mini-me.

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On 3/22/2020 at 5:43 AM, Bull City said:

I agree.

I was fortunate to have my semi-annual dentist visit just before the shit hit the fan.

I may end up with Corona Hair, but at least my teeth will be clean.

Me, too. The nest day, my dentist went to "emergencies, only" status.

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Mine closed as soon as the news hit.

One thing I've seen nothing about re: the propagation of this virus - how is it affected by the climate of a given area?

Is a cold, wet climate like here better, worse or no difference from a hot, dry or hot, wet climate in the bugs ability to grow & spread?

Generally bugs seem to prefer hot climates but...

Anybody here know anything about it?

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33 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Mine closed as soon as the news hit.

One thing I've seen nothing about re: the propagation of this virus - how is it affected by the climate of a given area?

Is a cold, wet climate like here better, worse or no difference from a hot, dry or hot, wet climate in the bugs ability to grow & spread?

Generally bugs seem to prefer hot climates but...

Anybody here know anything about it?

It might take me a while to find the references but it appears the bug can last longer in cool climates and for a very long time in cold ones.  Warm, humid climates cause them to 'die' sooner but they can still last for hours or days on many surfaces, such as cardboard and steel.

From the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention here: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/faq.html

It is not yet known whether weather and temperature impact the spread of COVID-19. Some other viruses, like the common cold and flu, spread more during cold weather months but that does not mean it is impossible to become sick with these viruses during other months.  At this time, it is not known whether the spread of COVID-19 will decrease when weather becomes warmer.  There is much more to learn about the transmissibility, severity, and other features associated with COVID-19 and investigations are ongoing.

There is this too: https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public/myth-busters

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19 minutes ago, Salazar said:
43 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Mine closed as soon as the news hit.

One thing I've seen nothing about re: the propagation of this virus - how is it affected by the climate of a given area?

Is a cold, wet climate like here better, worse or no difference from a hot, dry or hot, wet climate in the bugs ability to grow & spread?

Generally bugs seem to prefer hot climates but...

Anybody here know anything about it?

It might take me a while to find the references but the bug last longer in cool climates and for a very long time in cold ones.  Warm, humid climates cause them to 'die' sooner but they can still last for hours or days on many surfaces, such as cardboard and steel.

To quote the doctors.  Viruses are fragile and need to be in a host to survive.  Once "in the environment", they start to die fairly quickly.  As viruses go, CV-19 is more robust than most but still pretty fragile. The New England Journal of Medicine put out a chart of various material and the 1/2 life of the virus on those materials. in addition to data on actual decay on various surfaces.  Cardboard has viability for up to 40 hours, as I recall but is down dramatically in about 20 hours.  Stainless and hard plastics are viable for about 80 hours but below "concern levels" in 2-2.5 days. Frozen at -20 as a lab specimen, think months to maybe years.  

 

"how long" charts here

http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?/topic/213804-social-distancing-may-not-be-enough/&tab=comments#comment-6944861

 

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16 hours ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

Nice bit of data from the Financial Times.

As of 1900 GMT yesterday, Sun, March 22, look who apparently has the fastest Covid-19 case trajectory.  Team USA.  Doubling every three days?  [SMH]  An incredible contrast to Japan, for example, another large, rich, industrialized country.  

124FFC25-47C4-4A58-9E55-C372C5136584.jpeg
 

Good, very easy read on the math behind virus spread: 

https://medium.com/@Jason_Scott_Warner/the-sober-math-everyone-must-understand-about-the-pandemic-2b0145881993

Thank god I live in Denmark, I feel deeply sorry for you americans, with "your" choice of president and health care system, especially in these new interesting times.

Take care everybody.

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China and Hong Kong are reporting an uptick in cases almost as soon as they began lifting some restrictions. Mainly "imports" not locals. People who fled the virus, caught it abroad  and are bringing it home, business people, that sort of thing.

Our president is less to blame than our citizens, I think. People just didn't take this seriously, quickly enough and it wouldn't have mattered who the president was. Spring breakers in Florida still would have been partying on the beach no matter if Clinton or Biden had been shouting from the pulpit at the White House to stay home. We suffer hugely from the "it won't happen here" mindset.

A share of blame goes to some of our governors as well, for being slow to shut things down out of fear of the economic damage it would cause. Trump gets a disproportionate share of the blame because everyone hates him, he's bellicose and inarticulate. He's the most visible target.

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Our state government website had some suggestions on safe grocery shopping. Among them was the recommendation to wash your produce in soap and water. That sounds awful to me. Is this the time to move to canned stuff?

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32 minutes ago, Bull City said:

Our state government website had some suggestions on safe grocery shopping. Among them was the recommendation to wash your produce in soap and water. That sounds awful to me. Is this the time to move to canned stuff?

This has actually been recommended for some time, initially to get pesticide residues off and more recently to get E coli off. It's no big deal as long as you rinse well and use unperfumed dish soap.

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1 hour ago, Bull City said:

Our state government website had some suggestions on safe grocery shopping. Among them was the recommendation to wash your produce in soap and water. That sounds awful to me. Is this the time to move to canned stuff?

I use a colander to wash produce that I haven't grown myself. Use a tiny bit of unscented soap and tepid water, rub and toss the veg in the colander, rinse and toss again and put 'em in the fridge.  For leafy greens, a "salad spinner" is great for centrifuging the water out of the greens.

But really, we grew so tired of the weekly e. coli veg recalls that we grow our own during 3 seasons of the year now. We grow spinach, green and red leaf lettuce, cucumbers, zucchini and tomatoes.  The humorous thing is that lettuce goes to seed right before tomatoes begin producing so I never get both at the same time for my salads. Frustrating. :)

We have 2 large, galvanized steel raised beds, one smaller, lower raised bed made out of a Trex type material. We're looking to add a 3rd galvanized raised bed.

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3 hours ago, Ajax said:

China and Hong Kong are reporting an uptick in cases almost as soon as they began lifting some restrictions. Mainly "imports" not locals. People who fled the virus, caught it abroad  and are bringing it home, business people, that sort of thing.

Our president is less to blame than our citizens, I think. People just didn't take this seriously, quickly enough and it wouldn't have mattered who the president was. Spring breakers in Florida still would have been partying on the beach no matter if Clinton or Biden had been shouting from the pulpit at the White House to stay home. We suffer hugely from the "it won't happen here" mindset.

A share of blame goes to some of our governors as well, for being slow to shut things down out of fear of the economic damage it would cause. Trump gets a disproportionate share of the blame because everyone hates him, he's bellicose and inarticulate. He's the most visible target.

Nope - it's his fault.

All of it.

Everything. ;)

 

And even if it isn't, it should be, simply because he's such an incredible scumbag.

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On 3/21/2020 at 8:40 PM, carcrash said:

Apparently, the proper term is "presumptive positive."

My sister had a panel of tests for several different types of flu, and all were negative. Her symptoms match the top several for the cover-19 infection: first low energy, then fever, dry cough, shortness of breath (she needs to take another breath to complete sentences), and now pneumonia.

 The test for Covid-19 is limited to health care professionals: normal people cannot get it. In her area, she can get tested when she is in the ICU for symptoms that could be covid-19.

 Without the actual test, she is not counted, and not being tracked.

 She was told to stay home until she could not walk across a room, and then call 911.

That's awful - I hope she doesn't get anywhere near sick enough to need to do that. 

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4 hours ago, Ajax said:
5 hours ago, Bull City said:

Our state government website had some suggestions on safe grocery shopping. Among them was the recommendation to wash your produce in soap and water. That sounds awful to me. Is this the time to move to canned stuff?

I use a colander to wash produce that I haven't grown myself. Use a tiny bit of unscented soap and tepid water, rub and toss the veg in the colander, rinse and toss again and put 'em in the fridge.  For leafy greens, a "salad spinner" is great for centrifuging the water out of the greens.

But really, we grew so tired of the weekly e. coli veg recalls that we grow our own during 3 seasons of the year now. We grow spinach, green and red leaf lettuce, cucumbers, zucchini and tomatoes.  The humorous thing is that lettuce goes to seed right before tomatoes begin producing so I never get both at the same time for my salads. Frustrating. :)

We have 2 large, galvanized steel raised beds, one smaller, lower raised bed made out of a Trex type material. We're looking to add a 3rd galvanized raised bed.

I grew up in a rural community. At a very early age, I became familiar with the basic fact: farmers spread shit on the fields to make the crops grow

I've never eaten veggies without washing them first. Just common sense IMHO

-FB- Doug

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Speaking as an old microbiology professor, the grocery stores are a disaster.  Every cold I've caught in the last ten years (at least) came from the grocery store.  Aisles are arranged with obstacles designed deliberately to slow traffic and bunch people up. Checkouts are just cattle chutes.  There are always jerks in there hacking and coughing into the air. Nobody wipes down the cart handles or the touch-terminals between customers.  

In a way (remember that broken clock?) Trump is slightly correct.  It's time now to begin thinking about how people can start moving around and doing essential things more safely in a few weeks. Not waiting until people start running out of food.

Speaking as someone who grew up in agriculture (and spent college breaks doing QC in food processing plants) here's the deal on produce.  All produce is always covered with microbes.  Most will just cause food spoilage, but some can be harmful. As soon as you cut the plant, those microbes start growing like crazy.  If you can preserve the plant structure by only cutting a stem, it will last longer.  As soon as the stuff comes out of the field, it needs to be rapidly chilled and if possible,  washed with an anti-microbial treatment. We dunk fruit into ice water with a small amount of bleach. (Sorry, it's been almost 40 years since I had to test that number four times a day, but I can't remember the exact figure. Like a capfull of bleach in a sinkfull of ice water.) After that it stays cold all the way through the chain until you eat it.  Once something gets diced up, it needs to be cooked or preserved immediately.  

Those pre-cut salad mixes are just a stupid, stupid idea dreamed up by stupid, stupid marketing jerks.  They can't be done safely.

 

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I think I have gotten over one worry. My boat was launched last Wednesday. I did most of my spring cleaning on her today. Tomorrow is going to be rainy; Thursday is supposed to be sunny and 70º. Mrs. Bull and I plan to go sailing - a perfect social distancing activity for an old married couple.

My worry was that our Governor will order everyone to stay at home. CNN's website has a summary of the various state's stay-at-home including whats allowed and not allowed. It looks like going sailing would be fine, so long as it's a very small group, and you stay at least 6' away from other people.

:D

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9 hours ago, Ajax said:

Our president is less to blame than our citizens, I think. People just didn't take this seriously, quickly enough and it wouldn't have mattered who the president was.

Our president set the tone from the get go, and didn't take action it seems to avoid alarming the public and hurting his popularity or some demented crap.

Bottom line is there is a split about how seriously people are taking it, with people more inclined to follow Trump's example and believe the words coming out of his mouth also thinking it's less of a big deal. I can see it in my own family.

If you listen to some other world leaders speak, it is like night and day. Here in NZ the leadership is taking it utterly seriously, and there is none of the same tone coming from the top. You get clear, consistent messaging that this is a Big Freaking Deal and the country needs to take extreme measures to stop it.

No one is throwing out BS about cures they read about, or talking about going back to work, or anything like the craziness that comes out of Trump's mouth during the daily briefings. I've been watching them along with the broadcasts from the government here in NZ and the difference is stark.

You will get people in any population that are idiots about this stuff. But the leadership CAN set the tone for the more sensitive and sensible in the country. U.S. leadership has not done this.

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1 hour ago, B.J. Porter said:

Our president set the tone from the get go, and didn't take action it seems to avoid alarming the public and hurting his popularity or some demented crap.

Bottom line is there is a split about how seriously people are taking it, with people more inclined to follow Trump's example and believe the words coming out of his mouth also thinking it's less of a big deal. I can see it in my own family.

If you listen to some other world leaders speak, it is like night and day. Here in NZ the leadership is taking it utterly seriously, and there is none of the same tone coming from the top. You get clear, consistent messaging that this is a Big Freaking Deal and the country needs to take extreme measures to stop it.

No one is throwing out BS about cures they read about, or talking about going back to work, or anything like the craziness that comes out of Trump's mouth during the daily briefings. I've been watching them along with the broadcasts from the government here in NZ and the difference is stark.

You will get people in any population that are idiots about this stuff. But the leadership CAN set the tone for the more sensitive and sensible in the country. U.S. leadership has not done this.

Some of the governors have, but few at the Federal level. For containment to work, it had to be done consistently across that nation. This we have failed to do without clear federal guidance. 

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1 hour ago, B.J. Porter said:

Our president set the tone from the get go, and didn't take action it seems to avoid alarming the public and hurting his popularity or some demented crap.

Bottom line is there is a split about how seriously people are taking it, with people more inclined to follow Trump's example and believe the words coming out of his mouth also thinking it's less of a big deal. I can see it in my own family.

If you listen to some other world leaders speak, it is like night and day. Here in NZ the leadership is taking it utterly seriously, and there is none of the same tone coming from the top. You get clear, consistent messaging that this is a Big Freaking Deal and the country needs to take extreme measures to stop it.

No one is throwing out BS about cures they read about, or talking about going back to work, or anything like the craziness that comes out of Trump's mouth during the daily briefings. I've been watching them along with the broadcasts from the government here in NZ and the difference is stark.

You will get people in any population that are idiots about this stuff. But the leadership CAN set the tone for the more sensitive and sensible in the country. U.S. leadership has not done this.

B.J., I agree with you. Trump has been a loose cannon. He is doesn't understand how serious this is, and is frightened of a struggling economy and a declining equity market, only because it hurts his re-election prospects, and if he looses the election, he will be indicted and probably go to jail.

His talk of getting America back to work by Easter is reckless. 

I disagree with Ajax when he says, "Our president is less to blame than our citizens, I think. People just didn't take this seriously, quickly enough and it wouldn't have mattered who the president was." The President is supposed to lead; Trump did not take this seriously, because he didn't want "bad numbers". Only today is Trump invoking the Defense Production Act, something he should have done weeks ago. He was reluctant because he did not want us to become another Venezuela with nationalized industries. What a stupid ignorant incompetent bastard. People will die because of him.

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I had a college classmate, Laurie Garrett, whose career I have followed- she turned into a science journalist who ended up specializing in what I guess you could call epidemic coverage since the late 70’s. She won a Pulitzer for coverage of Ebola in Zaire, racked up quite a few other awards, and has been on the scene for pretty much every outbreak in the world over the last 40 years or so. Her book “The Coming Plague: Newly Emerging Diseases in a World Out of Balance” is worth a read.

So I pay attention, because I’m interested in what she does. She started ringing her Twitter alarm bells hard in early January. By two weeks later she and her epidemiologist & medical colleagues were in major freakout mode over what they were seeing. Transmissibility, incubation period, and mortality were looking like a potential global disaster.  The overall message at that time was that we in the US are nowhere near ready for what is coming. Apparently our intelligence agencies were giving the same warnings, but to deaf ears.

All this time what we were getting from the Dear Leader was to deny, deflect, and minimize the problem. How up travel bans, as if this was a problem of securing borders.  China, after first hiding the problem, gave us a gift of six weeks to prepare, which the Administration used to hide the truth- in hopes, I guess, that it would just disappear. China published the genome about Jan 12th & had testing available a week or so later. In the US, denial was the flavor of the month for February, and into March. We had the most incompetent response on earth. All, apparently, because of one guy. 

There had been offices set up in the NSA and CDC to coordinate a national response to a pandemic, which our intelligence agencies thought was the one threat we could guarantee would happen in the not too distant future. They were eliminated (NSA) or drastically curtailed (CDC) in 2018- over the strong objections of professionals in the field.  Yes, there is tape of Trump defending the elimination because "they hadn't been used in years". 

What she is saying now is to prepare to stay put for two months. it could be longer, probably not much less. The next 2-3 weeks are going to be very bad in many places, due to the lack of preparation and the fact that strong contact reduction strategies are only recently put in place. What we see today are infections from 2-3 weeks ago. And the numbers are vastly understated due to lack of testing. 

Here in Seattle we have seen contact reduction & work from home if you can for a couple of weeks, but it got more serious in the last few days, with a mandatory shutdown of everything non-essential.

Really feeling for those on the front lines of this. It didn’t have to be this way.

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On 3/23/2020 at 12:15 PM, SloopJonB said:

Mine closed as soon as the news hit.

One thing I've seen nothing about re: the propagation of this virus - how is it affected by the climate of a given area?

Is a cold, wet climate like here better, worse or no difference from a hot, dry or hot, wet climate in the bugs ability to grow & spread?

Generally bugs seem to prefer hot climates but...

Anybody here know anything about it?

What I get from those who know is that viruses generally will transmit more readily in closed spaces where people are crowded together. Since no one has immunity to this, that is double true. Temperature has an effect in that if your windows are open, or you are outside, there is less chance of transmission through droplets in the air. Air circulation is good, closed spaces are not. That's why there is expected to be a seasonal decline- but very possibly a resurgence in colder weather. 

Here's an article my college classmate wrote back in January on how to stay safe in an epidemic. It's geared towards China, but the principles are the same. 

https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/01/25/wuhan-coronavirus-safety-china/

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11 hours ago, Bull City said:

The President is supposed to lead;

This is where I disagree.

Over the last few decades, the office of the president has morphed into some sort of "Dear Leader" persona. That is not what the Founders envisioned. The Executive branch is mainly supposed to be the final stroke on legislation and a check on the Legislative branch. We, (the people) put far, far too much onus on the office of the President. The people do it, our media does it, and foreign nations and their citizens do it from afar, mainly because they don't truly understand our system of government and how it's supposed to be.

The Executive Branch, no matter who is occupying the White House is the target of all our complaints and praises when it should really be the Legislative branch that gets our ire. Over decades, as cooperation has eroded, the Legislative branch has willfully ceded their authority (and duties) to the Executive in the form of Executive Orders and decrees, and to bureaucratic agencies that operate with little oversight. This is why we as citizens experience legislative whiplash every time the Executive branch changes parties- none of these EO's are binding law. The next guy just tears up the previous guy's EO's and starts anew. This is NOT what the Founders intended. Agencies run amok passing "policy" that carries the weight of law (when it is clearly not) forcing citizens to frequently litigate against the government.

We are a Republic that still retains some vestiges of Federalism (state's rights) and we keep looking to the Federal government to solve EVERYTHING rather than solving our problems at the state and local levels. It really is foolish to think that the entire pandemic issue boils down to a single individual. You're giving that person WAY too much power, blame and/or credit.

Since everyone here seems to agree that information about the pandemic was widely available and the President sat on his ass and did nothing, do you REALLY not hold Congress and your governors responsible even to the slightest degree?  When you force the Federal government to solve your problems, they tend to force one-size-fits-all legislation on the entire nation. Do you think Wyoming needs the same degree of shelter in place orders that New York City does?

I should have prefaced my response by pointing out that I did not vote for Trump in 2016. I have a lot of complaints about the way he operates, so don't think I'm here to stick up for this particular President. Rather, I'm discussing what people have come to expect from the Executive branch and it's just wrong. The President is not a king, and oligarch or a fucking super-hero. He's just a guy (or woman, someday).  Hanging all your bitches and praises upon this one person is not how our government was built to function and your complaints are misplaced and I don't think you're being honest with yourself if you think some other person in the White House would have done much better or differently.

I am very pleased with the way my governor (Maryland) has handled our particular circumstances. I feel that his solutions reflect our unique situation. He was proactive and his solutions do not rely heavily on the Federal government to bail us out. He built up a substantial "rainy day" fund that we are drawing upon, he immediately activated a "reserve medical corps" and immediately began re-opening shuttered hospitals to make 6,000 more beds available. That was WEEKS ago.

Local government is better informed, more agile and faster. If ever I've seen a good case for Federalism, this is it.

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59 minutes ago, Ajax said:

This is where I disagree.

Over the last few decades, the office of the president has morphed into some sort of "Dear Leader" persona. That is not what the Founders envisioned. The Executive branch is mainly supposed to be the final stroke on legislation and a check on the Legislative branch. We, (the people) put far, far too much onus on the office of the President. The people do it, our media does it, and foreign nations and their citizens do it from afar, mainly because they don't truly understand our system of government and how it's supposed to be.

The Executive Branch, no matter who is occupying the White House is the target of all our complaints and praises when it should really be the Legislative branch that gets our ire. Over decades, as cooperation has eroded, the Legislative branch has willfully ceded their authority (and duties) to the Executive in the form of Executive Orders and decrees, and to bureaucratic agencies that operate with little oversight. This is why we as citizens experience legislative whiplash every time the Executive branch changes parties- none of these EO's are binding law. The next guy just tears up the previous guy's EO's and starts anew. This is NOT what the Founders intended. Agencies run amok passing "policy" that carries the weight of law (when it is clearly not) forcing citizens to frequently litigate against the government.

We are a Republic that still retains some vestiges of Federalism (state's rights) and we keep looking to the Federal government to solve EVERYTHING rather than solving our problems at the state and local levels. It really is foolish to think that the entire pandemic issue boils down to a single individual. You're giving that person WAY too much power, blame and/or credit.

Since everyone here seems to agree that information about the pandemic was widely available and the President sat on his ass and did nothing, do you REALLY not hold Congress and your governors responsible even to the slightest degree?  When you force the Federal government to solve your problems, they tend to force one-size-fits-all legislation on the entire nation. Do you think Wyoming needs the same degree of shelter in place orders that New York City does?

I should have prefaced my response by pointing out that I did not vote for Trump in 2016. I have a lot of complaints about the way he operates, so don't think I'm here to stick up for this particular President. Rather, I'm discussing what people have come to expect from the Executive branch and it's just wrong. The President is not a king, and oligarch or a fucking super-hero. He's just a guy (or woman, someday).  Hanging all your bitches and praises upon this one person is not how our government was built to function and your complaints are misplaced and I don't think you're being honest with yourself if you think some other person in the White House would have done much better or differently.

I am very pleased with the way my governor (Maryland) has handled our particular circumstances. I feel that his solutions reflect our unique situation. He was proactive and his solutions do not rely heavily on the Federal government to bail us out. He built up a substantial "rainy day" fund that we are drawing upon, he immediately activated a "reserve medical corps" and immediately began re-opening shuttered hospitals to make 6,000 more beds available. That was WEEKS ago.

Local government is better informed, more agile and faster. If ever I've seen a good case for Federalism, this is it.

Ajax, I disagree with very little of what you have written. I agree that too much power has been ceded by Congress to the Executive. (It's ironic that many "conservatives" complain about courts and judges making law, but not the executive, but that's another matter.) All the same, we as a people look to the President for leadership, especially in difficult times (war, economic depression, natural disaster) and someone who effectively marshal federal resources when needed.

I don't think this is necessarily a "Dear Leader," rather it is a competent executive, who knows how to lead. We were in both the Navy, and we know what good leadership is. The President is the head of state, chief executive and commander in chief, so a lot is expected.

I agree that our federal system rightly places burdens and responsibilities on local officials to take steps to protect populations, but our country has become very intertwined and interconnected, so that central coordination and direction is often necessary - think interstate commerce act - so effective leadership is needed. We all have to be pulling in the same direction.

This is where Trump has been a complete failure.Three weeks ago he was calling the virus a Democratic hoax, and publicly worrying over his "numbers" if a cruise ship with American passengers was allowed into a U.S. port.

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Has anyone watched the movie “Contagion” yet?  (I finally did last night.). The guy who was the technical consultant on it is a famous doctor who was instrumental in eradicating smallpox.  (He also did a now well known TED talk —google it— in like 2005 where he warns about the next inevitable pandemic...). The movie is “Hollywood-ish” in parts for sure, and the pa e is slow,  it’s decent, and it gives a feeling of what might happen if social/economic order broke down with mass pandemic deaths.  The only thing the story is missing is an inept, cruel, self-centred leader running the country (the story is set in the US, and the story writers clearly had no clue how to write such a political leader into the storyline).

Just reading today that India (1.3 BILLION people) is now supposedly “locked down“ for 21 days, while Mexico is apparently quite literally doing almost nothing (NYT story).  Seems like the 3rd World, with poor health systems, is going to be a catastrophe...so, yeah, open U.S. by Easter, sure, good luck until it resurfaces, and let’s also sacrifice the weak old people so that the stock market can get going again.  But, yeah, “Contagion” is worth a watch, followed by Dr. Larry Brilliant’s prescient TED talk:  

Over and out :-)

The punchline in “Contagion” comes quite literally in the last two minutes of the film.  Don’t skip ahead!

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Contagion's only real flaw is the inconguity of a disease that spreads as easily as it does and kills as fast as it does.  In real life it doesn't work that way, but the movie wouldn't work if there were 10 days of non-action before it killed you.  +1 on the recommendation, but maybe not with the wife and kids.

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5 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Contagion's only real flaw is the inconguity of a disease that spreads as easily as it does and kills as fast as it does.  In real life it doesn't work that way, but the movie wouldn't work if there were 10 days of non-action before it killed you.  +1 on the recommendation, but maybe not with the wife and kids.

It’s kinda funny - like watching a Hollywood sailing film and seeing the technical flaws, we were watching “Contagion” through the eyes of actually living in a pandemic, going, “yeah, that’s not realistic, etc!”  Watched with my chemistry-loving 16 year old daughter, who was hoping to have her first gig as a dinghy sailing coach (and well paid) this summer, now bummed out it’s likely not gonna happen...

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I had a good time binge watching Chernobyl last night with the kids. My son has seen it before but 14 yo daughter didn't pay much attention until last night when she finally ran out of enthusiasm for video games and sat through a couple of episodes with me.

It was a great microcosm of what has been happening globally under the pandemic. The lesson for them was really that of cognitive dissonance, on many many levels. A threat arises and different people across society in different roles and locations have to take on this threat weather they know it or not. The threat for the vast majority is totally abstract at first, so abstract it doesn't even compute for them, "It simply cannot be happening". It's a threat so disproportionate to their lived experiences they cannot even put it on the scale of their own experience so at first they reject it out of hand. Each in his own way, relative to his own experience. For those who are mentally unprepared for any such possibility, the seemingly rational response is to simply deny it as a possibility. It doesn't compute, it therefore cannot be happening, ascribe the madness to some other reason for peoples behavior or some other person is to blame.

Only gradually as the catastrophic outcomes become more apparent do more people begin to take it seriously, but for almost everyone involved there is a lag time to adjust to the new normal. For those that do not adapt to the new normal quickly enough, there is more pain and suffering because those who are responding faster seem fucking crazy or paranoid and neurotic.

Like our current crisis, everyone close to it, once they acknowledge the threat, realize it's really fucking serious and begin to move their understanding of the world and entirely recalibrate their priorities. The closer and more knowledgable they are, the faster they recalibrate their understanding of the problem. But it takes time for the message and more importantly for the actual understanding of the crisis to propagate out at first to the authorities then to the people who are most severely impacted. like waves moving outward. Exactly the same debates are played out about not wanting to panic people, e.g. not wanting to unduly disrupt the status quo in a rash move. Do we shut down the economy? do we displace masses of people? Everything other than status quo has risk for most people in most roles in society, they are not experienced at stepping way outside the normal and dealing with it so there is a ton of friction to get them to a new paradigm about what is important and what is not.

Much of the friction between the different characters in the series plays out because they are in different levels of understanding of the crisis, it's scope, scale and meaning to the future. It's no different here in Canada watching snowbirds coming home nonchalantly wander into stores to go shopping and wondering what all the fuss is about, while people who have been on lockdown for only a week are flipping out on them saying "WTF are you doing you morons?" Two weeks ago nobody would dream of yelling at septugenarians in Walmart for picking up some groceries on their way home from vacation. Now it's a national priority. Many people have literally and figuratively not gotten the memo.

So my lesson to my kids was: Situational awareness is first priority. Keep in mind not everyone may be as up to speed as you are or you may not be up to speed with someone else. So practice some caution and forgiveness with people and their understanding of the situation, they may have been in a silo that precludes them understanding what is going on and its a painful transition for many to go from February to March in this instance. you'll see the most squabbling and angst between those who are far along in their understanding of things and those who are lagging far behind. Oh and don't look into open nuclear reactors unless you want a very fast suntan.

It takes a certain  kind of openness to simply see data from afar and not start by putting a spin on it to suit your own view of the world. It takes work to find that data, free of spin as well and it takes discipline and effort to build a picture that might be characterized as "reality" from many different sources. Then it takes even more work to reconcile that with your current lived experience and to act in a rational way on it. But you cannot do any of that if you are not open to listening to messages that do not comport with your current reality.

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6 hours ago, Ajax said:

This is where I disagree.

Over the last few decades, the office of the president has morphed into some sort of "Dear Leader" persona. That is not what the Founders envisioned. The Executive branch is mainly supposed to be the final stroke on legislation and a check on the Legislative branch. We, (the people) put far, far too much onus on the office of the President. The people do it, our media does it, and foreign nations and their citizens do it from afar, mainly because they don't truly understand our system of government and how it's supposed to be.

The Executive Branch, no matter who is occupying the White House is the target of all our complaints and praises when it should really be the Legislative branch that gets our ire. Over decades, as cooperation has eroded, the Legislative branch has willfully ceded their authority (and duties) to the Executive in the form of Executive Orders and decrees, and to bureaucratic agencies that operate with little oversight. This is why we as citizens experience legislative whiplash every time the Executive branch changes parties- none of these EO's are binding law. The next guy just tears up the previous guy's EO's and starts anew. This is NOT what the Founders intended. Agencies run amok passing "policy" that carries the weight of law (when it is clearly not) forcing citizens to frequently litigate against the government.

We are a Republic that still retains some vestiges of Federalism (state's rights) and we keep looking to the Federal government to solve EVERYTHING rather than solving our problems at the state and local levels. It really is foolish to think that the entire pandemic issue boils down to a single individual. You're giving that person WAY too much power, blame and/or credit.

Since everyone here seems to agree that information about the pandemic was widely available and the President sat on his ass and did nothing, do you REALLY not hold Congress and your governors responsible even to the slightest degree?  When you force the Federal government to solve your problems, they tend to force one-size-fits-all legislation on the entire nation. Do you think Wyoming needs the same degree of shelter in place orders that New York City does?

I should have prefaced my response by pointing out that I did not vote for Trump in 2016. I have a lot of complaints about the way he operates, so don't think I'm here to stick up for this particular President. Rather, I'm discussing what people have come to expect from the Executive branch and it's just wrong. The President is not a king, and oligarch or a fucking super-hero. He's just a guy (or woman, someday).  Hanging all your bitches and praises upon this one person is not how our government was built to function and your complaints are misplaced and I don't think you're being honest with yourself if you think some other person in the White House would have done much better or differently.

I am very pleased with the way my governor (Maryland) has handled our particular circumstances. I feel that his solutions reflect our unique situation. He was proactive and his solutions do not rely heavily on the Federal government to bail us out. He built up a substantial "rainy day" fund that we are drawing upon, he immediately activated a "reserve medical corps" and immediately began re-opening shuttered hospitals to make 6,000 more beds available. That was WEEKS ago.

Local government is better informed, more agile and faster. If ever I've seen a good case for Federalism, this is it.

Ajax, I could not agree more that Congress has, over decades, abdicated their responsibility, and the executive has filled the void- with mostly unfortunate consequences. It’s been a long term trend, but the hyper-partisanship introduced by Gingrich, where any hint of compromise was branded as traitorous, is a big factor. That made actual legislation far more difficult. Bigger still is the emergence of a right wing media industry that whipped up distrust and outrage (and coded racism & xenophobia) to create and preserve a profitable market segment.

I agree that many (unfortunately not all) governors, mayors, and other local leaders have stepped up to the plate and faced reality. But in times of truly national crisis- war, of course, but national tragedies, major economic disruption- and definitely this pandemic disease (viruses don’t respect borders)- a national (and global) response and national leadership is required. Particularly when people are being asked to sacrifice for the common welfare. There have been some great examples of this kind of leadership in our history, even from otherwise imperfect presidents who rose to the occasion. What we have now is a complete failure. Trump is treating the states as if they were contestants on his game show- pitting them against one another, and withholding aid from those that don’t support him, or won’t likely vote for him. As of today, NY and WA still don’t have disaster funds released.   

And yes, I absolutely believe that a competent, reality based leader in the White House who was not contemptuous of expertise and science would have made an enormous difference in our preparations and response and saved many lives. And possibly the economy. Denial was not an effective strategy.  Flim flam and blathering bullshit may work selling a "deal", but this is hard reality. 

In a better world Congress would be a major part of that leadership. But now, with an ignorant and incompetent President surrounded with subservient toadies, sycophants, and yes-men feeding his bottomless need for praise, and a Senate that is subservient and deliberately impotent, we have a combination that is quite literally deadly.

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7 hours ago, Ajax said:

That is not what the Founders envisioned.

Our founders had no concept of the idea of mass communication. The world has changed significantly since 1783. As has the role of the president.

Although we remember the Gettysburg Address to this day, Lincoln didn't have a fraction of the reach that FDR had in WWII. Or that GWB had after 9/11.

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1 hour ago, Oceanconcepts said:

Ajax, I could not agree more that Congress has, over decades, abdicated their responsibility, and the executive has filled the void- with mostly unfortunate consequences. It’s been a long term trend, but the hyper-partisanship introduced by Gingrich, where any hint of compromise was branded as traitorous, is a big factor. That made actual legislation far more difficult. Bigger still is the emergence of a right wing media industry that whipped up distrust and outrage (and coded racism & xenophobia) to create and preserve a profitable market segment.

I agree that many (unfortunately not all) governors, mayors, and other local leaders have stepped up to the plate and faced reality. But in times of truly national crisis- war, of course, but national tragedies, major economic disruption- and definitely this pandemic disease (viruses don’t respect borders)- a national (and global) response and national leadership is required. Particularly when people are being asked to sacrifice for the common welfare. There have been some great examples of this kind of leadership in our history, even from otherwise imperfect presidents who rose to the occasion. What we have now is a complete failure. Trump is treating the states as if they were contestants on his game show- pitting them against one another, and withholding aid from those that don’t support him, or won’t likely vote for him. As of today, NY and WA still don’t have disaster funds released.   

And yes, I absolutely believe that a competent, reality based leader in the White House who was not contemptuous of expertise and science would have made an enormous difference in our preparations and response and saved many lives. And possibly the economy. Denial was not an effective strategy.  Flim flam and blathering bullshit may work selling a "deal", but this is hard reality. 

In a better world Congress would be a major part of that leadership. But now, with an ignorant and incompetent President surrounded with subservient toadies, sycophants, and yes-men feeding his bottomless need for praise, and a Senate that is subservient and deliberately impotent, we have a combination that is quite literally deadly.

Ocean, this is an excellent exposition of the issue. You have put your finger the origins of how we got to where we are. Thank you.

You also say, "There have been some great examples of this kind of leadership in our history, even from otherwise imperfect presidents who rose to the occasion." I am thinking of George W. Bush's address to the nation after September 11th. He was relatively new to his office. The tone and content of his address was exactly what was needed. I also think of Barack Obama singing "Amazing Grace" in the church in Charleston after a terrible shooting. 

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3 hours ago, B.J. Porter said:

Our founders had no concept of the idea of mass communication. The world has changed significantly since 1783. 

 This 100%. I think partisan politics have existed since day one.  The interweb created a megaphone in the mid 90's and hasn't slowed down since.  I believe most people have something that resonates with them and now there is a plethora of outlets that are constantly pumping that into them.  Online, TV what I'm typing into right now. I don't think political leaning has anything to do with it.  People are surrounded by white noise constantly and their reality becomes squewed because of it.  It is unreal to see the power of this white noise as it muscles through a international pandemic with little or no effect. I hope people eventually can come together in some way and that it doesn't have to hit rock bottom to happen.

 

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10 hours ago, blunted said:

It takes a certain  kind of openness to simply see data from afar and not start by putting a spin on it to suit your own view of the world. It takes work to find that data, free of spin as well and it takes discipline and effort to build a picture that might be characterized as "reality" from many different sources. Then it takes even more work to reconcile that with your current lived experience and to act in a rational way on it. But you cannot do any of that if you are not open to listening to messages that do not comport with your current reality.

This far and away the best article I’ve read on pandemics.  We’re all corona virus-ed out by now, but trust me, this is seriously worth reading, by everyone.

Written just a few years ago (2017) it’s about the 1918-20 Spanish Flu and looks at all the dimensions —medical, social-economic, public officials who repeatedly lied to the public, downplayed the risks, etc etc- very many scary parallels to right now.  Including about the second wave (of several) of the virus, which was far deadlier than the first.  It’s a bit long, but I highly recommend reading it - and it’s well written too.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/journal-plague-year-180965222/?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=socialmedia&fbclid=IwAR1dxZr1Hc-ejLTGida1wiR5P9Vdt1KBhS5hqQiJ_Fwdb-Q9qwAKn2OWVHM

 

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5 hours ago, B.J. Porter said:

Our founders had no concept of the idea of mass communication. The world has changed significantly since 1783. As has the role of the president.

Although we remember the Gettysburg Address to this day, Lincoln didn't have a fraction of the reach that FDR had in WWII. Or that GWB had after 9/11.

I don't know, Lincoln fought a civil war 

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My boat yard has all it's docks in the water. One of the local mooring contractors was setting summer moorings. Locals are well informed and practicing distancing at essential businesses (the boatyard and mooring biz's above) and on the street. People are taking that very seriously here which I'm glad to see.  

Our town manager asked anyone arriving from out of town self quarantine for 14 days upon arrival. Rumor has it more people than normal, mostly summer home owners, are arriving early to 'escape' , but I don't see it around the harbor, yet. 

It feels like boating will resume as usual here, but common sense tells me otherwise. I'm at the most Eastward dot of infection. Not a good trend, this map of reported positive infections, especially knowing that medical resources are overwhelmed in NYC. We all have family there. 

187662174_ScreenShot2020-03-26at8_02_36AM.thumb.png.875f63b2baedb02573cc023c0424a351.png

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30 minutes ago, Cristoforo said:

The Gettsyburg Address was given on Nov 19, 1863   
AP Wire services distributed the text the next day 
For an example The NY Times fully covered it the next morning  
The population of NY at that time was about 1,5 million  

Same for Washington, Chicago, San Francisco 

I would say that is pretty good mass communication

What does it matter if it wasn't seen 'live'? 

I am also told some folks had indoor plumbing in 1863 
 

I didn't say zero coverage. I said he wasn't the keynote. You'll notice Everett gets the headline.

http://housedivided.dickinson.edu/sites/blogdivided/files/2018/07/nov-21-63-chi-trib.pdf

http://housedivided.dickinson.edu/sites/blogdivided/files/2018/07/The_Adams_Sentinel_Tue__Nov_24__1863_.pdf

Also, it wasn't universally praised. 

http://housedivided.dickinson.edu/sites/blogdivided/files/2018/07/Patriot_1863-12-03_3.pdf

http://housedivided.dickinson.edu/sites/blogdivided/files/2018/07/indyclip.pdf

Consensus historians of the 1950's and later had a more positive view of the war and the address. Revisionists in the 20's and 40's much less so. 

Consensus historians give all that "two if by sea" mythology BS. 

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I have a friend in NYC who has just gotten over two weeks of coronavirus hell. His wife caught it, she's been tested and confirmed, but she was nine days into symptoms before they tested her. It took six days to get the results back. By then her fever had broken.  He didn't have much in terms of respiratory symptoms, instead, it was godawful diarrhea. Guy lost 18 pounds in ten days. His fever is back down, and has been for three days now, so they're through it, but not after a truly shitty couple of weeks.

 

I have to say, if that's going to be the MO going forward, that it takes most of a week to get results of the testing back, then all that does is inform the statistics people who are counting the bodies.....and the recovered. It does jack for helping patients.  Hopefully things will speed up.

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2 hours ago, Bull City said:

This just in:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/03/24/coronavirus-second-homes/

4 hours ago, Kris Cringle said:

Rumor has it more people than normal, mostly summer home owners, are arriving early to 'escape' , but I don't see it around the harbor, yet. 

My brother-in-law lives year round in waterfront resort town in NJ. He commutes into NYC (though he's working from home now). The other day he said a lot of people have come from NYC to stay there during the pandemic.

One trouble he's had is the stores are stocked for the regular volume of winter residents, which is very low. So the stores have been cleaned out and it's hard to get stuff.

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Sitting in the Midwest in a town with the tiniest dot on that map but watching TV and having bailed from Panama, these accounts of people with Covid are amazing and downright scary for an older couple in their 60s. 

BTW, this thread appears to have avoided the purgatory of the Coronavirus folder.

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1 hour ago, TheDragon said:

Sitting in the Midwest in a town with the tiniest dot on that map but watching TV and having bailed from Panama, these accounts of people with Covid are amazing and downright scary for an older couple in their 60s. 

BTW, this thread appears to have avoided the purgatory of the Coronavirus folder.

I'm not sure how those other threads were picked to go into CV Hell, the most popular CV threads in GA and PA and here are all running along independently.

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Escape from NY

No go for Norwegians to summer homes

Those with resources are bugging out to the country.

But in many places as noted they are small towns without the seasonal resources to handle an atypical influx of population so food is behind the curve and medical care is especially behind. As such they are barring Norwegians from using their summer homes.

I've heard similar reports here in Canada too as many people keep cottages on lakes or chalets by a ski hill. I certainly know a couple of people riding out the initial storm in smaller off the beaten path locales.

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Long time since I've seen that one, classic 1970's dystopia

Very prescient, they had a wall too.

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Speaking of C.V. refugees, Mrs. Bull and I were driving back from our boat this afternoon in I-85, in central N.C. I was a little bummed out because our f**king nitwit weatherman said it was going to be 65º and SUNNY this afternoon, and instead it was cloudy and 50º, which dashed any hopes of a sunny sail. So, we're headed south on I-85, and I got passed by a car from New York, and moments later by another from New Jersey. WTF? :huh:

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9 hours ago, Kris Cringle said:

My boat yard has all it's docks in the water. One of the local mooring contractors was setting summer moorings. Locals are well informed and practicing distancing at essential businesses (the boatyard and mooring biz's above) and on the street. People are taking that very seriously here which I'm glad to see.  

Our town manager asked anyone arriving from out of town self quarantine for 14 days upon arrival. Rumor has it more people than normal, mostly summer home owners, are arriving early to 'escape' , but I don't see it around the harbor, yet. 

It feels like boating will resume as usual here, but common sense tells me otherwise. I'm at the most Eastward dot of infection. Not a good trend, this map of reported positive infections, especially knowing that medical resources are overwhelmed in NYC. We all have family there. 

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Walked the dog today  out at Hermit Island and noticed the boats were already  rigged and on their moorings at several small private islands. Perhaps the rich really are different.

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1 hour ago, Willin' said:

Walked the dog today  out at Hermit Island and noticed the boats were already  rigged and on their moorings at several small private islands. Perhaps the rich really are different.

They are.

They have more money.

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On 3/26/2020 at 4:55 PM, Bull City said:

Speaking of C.V. refugees, Mrs. Bull and I were driving back from our boat this afternoon in I-85, in central N.C. I was a little bummed out because our f**king nitwit weatherman said it was going to be 65º and SUNNY this afternoon, and instead it was cloudy and 50º, which dashed any hopes of a sunny sail. So, we're headed south on I-85, and I got passed by a car from New York, and moments later by another from New Jersey. WTF? :huh:

So, I got back in my car yesterday morning, drove to marina, and had a marvelous first sail of 2020 with a freshly painted bottom. Air temp was an unseasonable but nice 70º, and the wind was a pretty steady (for us) 10 knots out of the south. There were some others out sailing - all maintaining a proper social distance.

P.S. I want to see if the SA system alerts me that I quoted myself. (Yes, I have a little time on my hands.)