Jump to content

Hydroxychloroquine and Azithromycin


Recommended Posts

  • Replies 1.2k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

I'm still pondering what a single useful is - how does that differ from say a double useful, or even gasp a semi-auto useful.  I am all for usefuls since they are desirable just from the name but can'

Post writes itself...

Posted Images

  16 hours ago, Saorsa said:

"Then, would you admit that Hydrochloroquine has a higher level of approval from the FDA than any of the current COVID Vaccines?  The vaccines are being administered under and EUA, Hydrochloroqune has full approval for Lupus and Malaria (annotated for monitored use in heart patients) to mitigate symptoms and limit severity of episodes."

 

There have been many incredibly stupid posts on this subject, but this one simply has no peer.  It is in it's little cloistered world, technically correct, but entirely, astoundingly irrelevant.  

Spelling is pretty good though.  Just one missing "i".

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Left Shift said:
  16 hours ago, Saorsa said:

"Then, would you admit that Hydrochloroquine has a higher level of approval from the FDA than any of the current COVID Vaccines?  The vaccines are being administered under and EUA, Hydrochloroqune has full approval for Lupus and Malaria (annotated for monitored use in heart patients) to mitigate symptoms and limit severity of episodes."

 

There have been many incredibly stupid posts on this subject, but this one simply has no peer.  It is in it's little cloistered world, technically correct, but entirely, astoundingly irrelevant.  

Spelling is pretty good though.  Just one missing "i".

Here's  some science.  Where's yours?

https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/drugsatfda_docs/label/2017/009768s037s045s047lbl.pdf

No black box warning.

Here's the fact sheet for the Pfizer Vaccine.

https://www.fda.gov/media/144414/download

The Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine has not undergone the same type of review as an FDA-approved or cleared product. FDA may issue an EUA when certain criteria are met, which includes that there are no adequate, approved, available alternatives. In addition, the FDA decision is based on the totality of scientific evidence available showing that the product may be effective to prevent COVID-19 during the COVID-19 pandemic and that the known and potential benefits of the product outweigh the known and potential risks of the product. All of these criteria must be met to allow for the product to be used in the treatment of patients during the COVID-19 pandemic

There is even a special program for side effect compensation

WHAT IS THE COUNTERMEASURES INJURY COMPENSATION PROGRAM?The Countermeasures Injury Compensation Program (CICP) is a federal program that may help pay for costs of medical care and other specific expenses of certain people who have been seriously injured by certain medicines or vaccines, including this vaccine. Generally, a claim must be submitted to the CICP within one (1) year from the date of receiving the vaccine.To learn more about this program, visit www.hrsa.gov/cicp/ or call 1-855-266-2427.

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Left Shift said:

So, should I go with the Clorox, or go for the extra ingredients in Soft Scrub?   To get thoroughly polished innards.

Well, that would be stupid. But, what's expected of you.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/23/2020 at 3:52 PM, Grrr... said:

It takes a decade to really figure out what a drug is going to do.  Even then, it may not be long enough.  This is a case of "journalists" grabbing individual studies and trying to wave them around to get a headline.  One study, and many times even dozens of studies, do not necessarily give the answer.  It's the practice of medicine - not the perfection of medicine.

Trump just acted like Trump acts, and gave yet another reason why he shouldn't be classified as a human being, much less a president.

Aaaaannnnd, Hydrooxychloroquine has been successfully prescribed for over a decade.

https://www.webmd.com/lung/hydroxychloroquine#1

No controversy until Trump mentioned it and it became a useful too for the hate machinel.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

Aaaaannnnd, Hydrooxychloroquine has been successfully prescribed for over a decade.

https://www.webmd.com/lung/hydroxychloroquine#1

No controversy until Trump mentioned it and it became a useful too for the hate machinel.

 

Except experts don't agree with you about the efficacy of hydroxy in treating covid.  You continue to try to conflate previous uses for the drugs with false uses.  You have a right to an opinion, no matter how stupid it is.

You are the peak of Mt. Stupid, believing your google abilities outweigh all the experts opinions.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

Here's  some science.  Where's yours?

https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/drugsatfda_docs/label/2017/009768s037s045s047lbl.pdf

No black box warning.

Here's the fact sheet for the Pfizer Vaccine.

https://www.fda.gov/media/144414/download

The Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine has not undergone the same type of review as an FDA-approved or cleared product. FDA may issue an EUA when certain criteria are met, which includes that there are no adequate, approved, available alternatives. In addition, the FDA decision is based on the totality of scientific evidence available showing that the product may be effective to prevent COVID-19 during the COVID-19 pandemic and that the known and potential benefits of the product outweigh the known and potential risks of the product. All of these criteria must be met to allow for the product to be used in the treatment of patients during the COVID-19 pandemic

There is even a special program for side effect compensation

WHAT IS THE COUNTERMEASURES INJURY COMPENSATION PROGRAM?The Countermeasures Injury Compensation Program (CICP) is a federal program that may help pay for costs of medical care and other specific expenses of certain people who have been seriously injured by certain medicines or vaccines, including this vaccine. Generally, a claim must be submitted to the CICP within one (1) year from the date of receiving the vaccine.To learn more about this program, visit www.hrsa.gov/cicp/ or call 1-855-266-2427.

Well, golly, that sounds TERRIBLE

All the evil bureaucrats are trying to fool you into taking that vaccine, huh?

But you're too smart for them!

Anecdotal evidence- I have been personally present for ~ 8,000 Pfizer and Moderna vaccines... about 2/3 Pfizer I think, I am not involved in the medical details... but I help supervise the large pleasant room where everybody waits afterward. There have been no side effects that a sympathetic hand-holding and a cup of tea (or coffee) wouldn't cure.

It was tested on about 70,000 people before being given "emergency" approval.

One of the legit complaints from the political right is that government creates a maze complex regulation which delays beneficial new products.

Now that system gets shortened, while providing as much safety oversight as possible, you complain about THAT

Make up your tiny fuckin' mind

- DSK

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

I had my 1st injection of the tracking device yesterday. No helicopters yet.

It's gotta sync with the phone in your pocket.  Give it a day or two.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Raz'r said:

I had my 1st injection of the tracking device yesterday. No helicopters yet.

The chip comes with the second dose, silly.  Then, watch out.  Your internet gets glitchy and you get funny noises on your iPhone that aren't made by your kid sister's instagram posts.  And watch out for slow drive-bys in tan cars.

I told them to put it in my right forearm, so I could wrap it in tinfoil easier.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Left Shift said:

The chip comes with the second dose, silly.  Then, watch out.  Your internet gets glitchy and you get funny noises on your iPhone that aren't made by your kid sister's instagram posts.  And watch out for slow drive-bys in tan cars.

I told them to put it in my right forearm, so I could wrap it in tinfoil easier.  

Pussy

I have some metal parts in my shoulder, so that's where I told them to put it... bigger antenna!

Now I have my own Sirius channel !!!

- DSK

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Raz'r said:

I had my 1st injection of the tracking device yesterday. No helicopters yet.

Me too.  But there are plenty of helicopters (I live near a Level 1 Trauma hospital) but still. Also and I shit you not there were a couple of F35’s overhead last week.  Coincidence?  I think not.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Fakenews said:

Me too.  But there are plenty of helicopters (I live near a Level 1 Trauma hospital) but still. Also and I shit you not there were a couple of F35’s overhead last week.  Coincidence?  I think not.

The only helicopter I see on a regular basis is Coast Guard Air Station SF, the orange MH-65

I'm on a direct line between Half Moon Bay and SFO. When the storms roll in and she flies over low and fast, I know it's not a training run.

Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, Grrr... said:

Except experts don't agree with you about the efficacy of hydroxy in treating covid.  You continue to try to conflate previous uses for the drugs with false uses.  You have a right to an opinion, no matter how stupid it is.

You are the peak of Mt. Stupid, believing your google abilities outweigh all the experts opinions.

Experts still confirm it's use in reducing severity of symptoms.  If you want science, there it is.  It has NOT been removed from the pharmacopeia.  The 'experts' were acting on a political basis, not one proven by testing.  HCQ is continuing to be studied since it is still in recommended use.  In effect, they created an 'Emergency Non-use Demand' based on a lot of agitprop for political purposes.

A more recent study https://www.practicalpainmanagement.com/resources/news-and-research/hydroxychloroquine-covid-preventive-still-news determined that it didn't appear to be particularly effective but was not harmful.  As usual in medical studies, the conclusion was that more study is needed.

Are More HCQ COVID Studies Needed or Is It Time to Move On?

Jean Mulcahy Levy, associate professor of pharmacology at the University of ColoradoAnschutz Medical Campus, agrees that further studies would be best.

“Hydroxychloroquine has been in use since the 1960s and 70s, and millions of people around the world have taken it for various reasons, including people with rheumatological disorders who take it for prolonged periods of time,” she told PPM. “Dosed appropriately, it is a very safe drug. I think it would be good if we could answer the question [about potential benefits for COVID-19] definitively and move on.”

It’s unlikely that we will get a definitive answer any time soon, however. “It’s hard in the setting of a pandemic to do well-crafted studies,” says Dr. Mulcahy Levy. “Those normally take years.”

Meanwhile, providers will have to wait until there are better studies before they can make an informed decision about the use of HCQ use as a way to reduce mortality from COVID-19. More important, perhaps, the Rentsch study does offer some evidence that patients already prescribed HCQ regularly need not fear that the medication could make COVID-19 worse if they do contract the virus.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Saorsa said:

Experts still confirm it's use in reducing severity of symptoms.  If you want science, there it is.  It has NOT been removed from the pharmacopeia.  The 'experts' were acting on a political basis, not one proven by testing.  HCQ is continuing to be studied since it is still in recommended use.  In effect, they created an 'Emergency Non-use Demand' based on a lot of agitprop for political purposes.

A more recent study https://www.practicalpainmanagement.com/resources/news-and-research/hydroxychloroquine-covid-preventive-still-news determined that it didn't appear to be particularly effective but was not harmful.  As usual in medical studies, the conclusion was that more study is needed.

Are More HCQ COVID Studies Needed or Is It Time to Move On?

Jean Mulcahy Levy, associate professor of pharmacology at the University of ColoradoAnschutz Medical Campus, agrees that further studies would be best.

“Hydroxychloroquine has been in use since the 1960s and 70s, and millions of people around the world have taken it for various reasons, including people with rheumatological disorders who take it for prolonged periods of time,” she told PPM. “Dosed appropriately, it is a very safe drug. I think it would be good if we could answer the question [about potential benefits for COVID-19] definitively and move on.”

It’s unlikely that we will get a definitive answer any time soon, however. “It’s hard in the setting of a pandemic to do well-crafted studies,” says Dr. Mulcahy Levy. “Those normally take years.”

Meanwhile, providers will have to wait until there are better studies before they can make an informed decision about the use of HCQ use as a way to reduce mortality from COVID-19. More important, perhaps, the Rentsch study does offer some evidence that patients already prescribed HCQ regularly need not fear that the medication could make COVID-19 worse if they do contract the virus.

No, experts do not "confirm it's use in reducing severity of symptoms".

Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Grrr... said:

No, experts do not "confirm it's use in reducing severity of symptoms".

The Indian experts seem to say so.  Unless you are as racist as Joe in their regard.

C'mon, it was pure political agitprop.  At the time of the furor people were proclaiming that it was going to kill everyone when every side effect and contraindication was blown up as dangerous to the population and a near guaranteed fatality. You won, you should be proud and own it.  It didn't matter that people were being denied access to a generally benign pharmaceutical which had the potential to mitigate the severity of the disease.

This should be a case study for political science classes.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Grrr... said:
2 hours ago, Saorsa said:

Experts still confirm it's use in reducing severity of symptoms.  If you want science, there it is. ... ...

No, experts do not "confirm it's use in reducing severity of symptoms".

Not of covid infection, anyway.

And it's interesting that the "scientists" quoted talk about studies but do not mention blinds or controls, two of the most fundamental ingredients of any study that can be said to be scientific.

The VA usage HQL is pretty definitive, not because it was scientific but because it as over a large number of patients. "No observable benefit, potential harm in all cases, observable harm in some cases, adds to treatment burden" was the conclusion.

A personal anecdote... there are a few doctors in the VA studies who raved about how awesome HQL was for their patients... who unfortunately died in very similar numbers as everybody elses' patients... but those doctors were all Trumpalos

- DSK

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Saorsa said:

The Indian experts seem to say so.  Unless you are as racist as Joe in their regard.

C'mon, it was pure political agitprop.  At the time of the furor people were proclaiming that it was going to kill everyone when every side effect and contraindication was blown up as dangerous to the population and a near guaranteed fatality. You won, you should be proud and own it.  It didn't matter that people were being denied access to a generally benign pharmaceutical which had the potential to mitigate the severity of the disease.

This should be a case study for political science classes.

Are there any published studies verified by third parties?  Or just a bunch of anecdotes?  Any real percentages and research other than 'we think'?

Let me help you with the answer in 2020.

Scientists have raised serious concerns about the study's data and analysis

Yeah.  Good luck with that.  What happens when we look at recent info from india?   Again.  All signs and experts agree - it doesn't help.

You're a fucking idiot grasping at Trumpian straws with google searches.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Grrr... said:

Are there any published studies verified by third parties?  Or just a bunch of anecdotes?  Any real percentages and research other than 'we think'?

Let me help you with the answer in 2020.

Scientists have raised serious concerns about the study's data and analysis

Yeah.  Good luck with that.  What happens when we look at recent info from india?   Again.  All signs and experts agree - it doesn't help.

You're a fucking idiot grasping at Trumpian straws with google searches.

 

“Ha Ha. Made you look.”

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Saorsa said:

The Indian experts seem to say so.  Unless you are as racist as Joe in their regard.

C'mon, it was pure political agitprop.  At the time of the furor people were proclaiming that it was going to kill everyone when every side effect and contraindication was blown up as dangerous to the population and a near guaranteed fatality. You won, you should be proud and own it.  It didn't matter that people were being denied access to a generally benign pharmaceutical which had the potential to mitigate the severity of the disease.

This should be a case study for political science classes.

Yes, it should definitely be studied on how to effectively get 30% of the population to scale Mt Stupid. How do you find the air up there?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Turns out that bullshit has consequences . . 

How could anyone have possibly known ?? 

(Bartiromo is one of FOX's most malevolent liars)  (From Kos) 

On Monday, CNN reported Eric Spinato, a senior Fox News employee who’d been with the network for 20 years, died from COVID-19 complications. Spinato was the “head booker and senior story editor for the Fox Business Network” where he handled bookings for top shows like Bartiromo’s misinformation-fest.

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Grrr... said:

Are there any published studies verified by third parties?  Or just a bunch of anecdotes?  Any real percentages and research other than 'we think'?

Let me help you with the answer in 2020.

Scientists have raised serious concerns about the study's data and analysis

Yeah.  Good luck with that.  What happens when we look at recent info from india?   Again.  All signs and experts agree - it doesn't help.

You're a fucking idiot grasping at Trumpian straws with google searches.

 

Hey, nice cite.  Did you even read the lead paragraph?

Safety fears over drug hyped to treat the coronavirus spark global confusion

A study that suggested using hydroxychloroquine — a malaria drug — to treat people with COVID-19 could be dangerous has slowed clinical trials, but the study itself has also been questioned.
 
In light of the study, this week, the World Health Organization (WHO) has paused enrolment in its trial of the drug as a treatment for COVID-19, as have regulators in the United Kingdom, France and Australia, where similar trials are under way. But the picture isn’t clear-cut: on 28 May, 120 researchers signed a letter to The Lancet, which published the study1, highlighting concerns about the quality of the data and its analysis.
Now, that cite of yours was from May 2020.  Our first confirmed case was in February.  There is no way in hell you could develop, execute, and produce results for a test on a prophylactic drug in 2.5 months.  That is the fact that made it possible to use as political propaganda.
 
If you really believe in science you would believe in the scientific method.  In this case that would require an uninfected population where some were given HCQ and others a placebo.  Then you would introduce the potential for infection.  A NY nursing home would have been the perfect laboratory.
 
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Saorsa said:

Hey, nice cite.  Did you even read the lead paragraph?

Safety fears over drug hyped to treat the coronavirus spark global confusion

A study that suggested using hydroxychloroquine — a malaria drug — to treat people with COVID-19 could be dangerous has slowed clinical trials, but the study itself has also been questioned.
 
In light of the study, this week, the World Health Organization (WHO) has paused enrolment in its trial of the drug as a treatment for COVID-19, as have regulators in the United Kingdom, France and Australia, where similar trials are under way. But the picture isn’t clear-cut: on 28 May, 120 researchers signed a letter to The Lancet, which published the study1, highlighting concerns about the quality of the data and its analysis.
Now, that cite of yours was from May 2020.  Our first confirmed case was in February.  There is no way in hell you could develop, execute, and produce results for a test on a prophylactic drug in 2.5 months.  That is the fact that made it possible to use as political propaganda.
 
If you really believe in science you would believe in the scientific method.  In this case that would require an uninfected population where some were given HCQ and others a placebo.  Then you would introduce the potential for infection.  A NY nursing home would have been the perfect laboratory.
 

Yes, it clearly was political propaganda. But that was played by TFG and his minions, not the folks trying to save lives.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Saorsa, just keep taking your Roxy and chill. Let the rest of us die from our ignorance. But I think you should take megadoses of aspirin, too. It's been used safely even longer than Roxy. You know the level is protective when your ears start ringing. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

Saorsa, just keep taking your Roxy and chill. Let the rest of us die from our ignorance. But I think you should take megadoses of aspirin, too. It's been used safely even longer than Roxy. You know the level is protective when your ears start ringing. 

There are other drugs that are approved also, just not for Covid. Why not take them too? Mifepristone and misoprostol are two I would recommend for Saorsa.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Mister Minister, if you take too much amoxicillin or doxycyline (also FDA approved) you could kill off all of your gut bacteria. You'd then need to re-introduce new bacteria. If you look on San Diego Craigslist, there's probably a place in Tijuana that will shove some shit up your ass without a prescription.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Minister, why stop at the Hydroxy?

There's quite a few approved meds out there:

 

The researchers determined that 1,453 drugs have obtained FDA approval as of 31 December 2013. Just a small handful of drugs received approval prior to the creation of the modern FDA in 1938, including Merck's morphine in 1827 and aspirin in 1899.

FDA NME Approvals - 1930 to 2013

Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

165277400_3839806942806114_4831422677286

When I see senior lines, I used to instinctively think of my elders. Now I think fucking entitled boomers. That's double the case for vaccinations.

Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Olsonist said:

When I see senior lines, I used to instinctively think of my elders. Now I think fucking entitled boomers. That's double the case for vaccinations.

Got my first down in Santa Cruz last Tuesday, pre-existing condition but they were taking a lot of drop-ins. Buddy said the same about Modesto last week. Gavin knows he’s got the Bay Area vote, so he’s dropping vaccine where the recall is strong.

Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Got my first down in Santa Cruz last Tuesday, pre-existing condition but they were taking a lot of drop-ins. Buddy said the same about Modesto last week. Gavin knows he’s got the Bay Area vote, so he’s dropping vaccine where the recall is strong.

The recall is basically the Bay Area + LA vs Fresno + San Diego. I haven't seen a single recall sign in the Bay Area and I drove up to Chico yesterday and didn't see any on the drive.

If Newsom mounts a competent campaign, I'm not at all worried. Moreover, Falconer will then have to look for a new job, maybe a Congressional seat. Oops. He should have challenged for CA-50 but now that goes to Tom's boy, Darrell. Looks like Falconer will have to look for a real job.

Newsom has to be thinking of Feinstein's recall election as mayor. Crush it and no one will run against you for re-election.

I'm happy to wait until the teachers have had theirs. And the anti-vaxxer teachers can get another job.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Olsonist said:

 

I'm happy to wait until the teachers have had theirs. And the anti-vaxxer teachers can get another job.

From the looks of the lines at 11am last Tuesday, they have more supply than demand in Santa Cruz. It might have taken 2 minutes for me, showing up 30 minutes early to an appt. There was no one there. just the drop-ins. And only maybe ten of them, again, at 11am last tuesday.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Raz'r said:

From the looks of the lines at 11am last Tuesday, they have more supply than demand in Santa Cruz. It might have taken 2 minutes for me, showing up 30 minutes early to an appt. There was no one there. just the drop-ins. And only maybe ten of them, again, at 11am last tuesday.

One of the benefits of being a science believer in a N.FL county that votes around 70% for any candidate with an "R" next to his name, at least while Captain Ron is Gov., is that our little poor county received a bunch of Moderna vaccine early-on, at a time when a depressingly large percentage of that population is dead certain that they will get a microchip if they get the vaccine, because science is the devil and He wants to alter your DNA. 

All of our snowbirds, heathens and libruls have had access to the vaccine for quite some time. It took 15 minutes in the car to go from one end of the line to the other, with another 15 minute waiting period after getting the stick. More out of state plates than FL. Depressing in that respect. But I'm vaccinated now, so if dumb fucks want to do their thing, so be it.  I'll keep doing my thing and letting Darwin line up his volunteers. 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Announcements


×
×
  • Create New...