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How Will U.S. Emergency Assistance Be Divided?


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There's a lot of talk about who will be getting the lion's share of the assistance politicians in Washington are proposing right now.  The Senate Bill 3548 proposed by McConnell, Alexander, Grassley, Rubio, Shelby, Wicker is said to largely favor corporations, including sending monies, intended to assist the workers, to the corporations instead of directly to the workers.

H.R. 6201, proposed by Nita Lowey is said to prevent corporations from using taxpayer money for stock buybacks, boost unemployment insurance, strengthen the child and earned income tax credits and inject nearly $40 billion into schools and universities to stabilize funding. It also directs billions of dollars in grant funding for states to carry out this year's election through the Election Assistance Commission.

If you were to place a bet, who, or what, will benefit the most once a bill is passed?  The people or the corporations?

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Cruise lines should be bailed out by the country whose flag flies from their ships. 

Is this even a question?  The current economic situation proves the US economy is consumer driven.  When we stop buying stuff, shit collapses.  Yet we keep trying to prop us the businesses, especially

Yes, I am a US citizen and the last time I lived in the US was 1996.  So I guess that makes me an expat. And  the icing on the cake is thanks to productive citizens like you, I have spent my mone

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99% will go to the 1% and 1% will go to the 99%.... That's the way it works in DC.

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9 minutes ago, Mrleft8 said:

99% will go to the 1% and 1% will go to the 99%.... That's the way it works in DC.

And what our esteemed leaders on the Hill are fighting about at the moment is whether the whole 1% or some lesser amount will be enough to appease the 99%, lest they break out the pitchforks. 

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13 minutes ago, Mrleft8 said:

99% will go to the 1% and 1% will go to the 99%.... That's the way it works in DC.

You gotta take care of the donors first.  How would Washington run without their funding the elections?

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Well, Nancy now has a 1400 page bill that we have to pass before we can read it.

Personally, I would cover corporate payroll up to 75% of the average of the prior 3 months paycheck for each laid off employee.  That could, and should, be audited and free of tax.

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Is this even a question?  The current economic situation proves the US economy is consumer driven.  When we stop buying stuff, shit collapses.  Yet we keep trying to prop us the businesses, especially the big ones?  The Reight loves to harp on citizens for not having 6 months of living expenses in the bank but the after a month of hardship the Fortune 500 wants a bailout?  Fuck that noise.  What we are proving is that we are a failed society.  We fail at taking care even of the most basic services for our fellow humans while giving control of our government and our lives to corporations.  

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You want to stimulate??  Wave mortgages for 2 months...  2000+ per month for basically every homeowner without even touching 1 dime of fed taxes.  

 

Will it pass??  Prob not, but you want stimuli..  There you go.  

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11 minutes ago, Swimsailor said:

Is this even a question?  The current economic situation proves the US economy is consumer driven.  When we stop buying stuff, shit collapses.  Yet we keep trying to prop us the businesses, especially the big ones?  The Reight loves to harp on citizens for not having 6 months of living expenses in the bank but the after a month of hardship the Fortune 500 wants a bailout?  Fuck that noise.  What we are proving is that we are a failed society.  We fail at taking care even of the most basic services for our fellow humans while giving control of our government and our lives to corporations.  

Stop using common sense!  We have to give the fat cats a good ROI on their investment in our representatives.

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Just heard Krystal Hill say 97% of voters want the money to go directly to the people rather than the corporations.

So Bernie has been wrong all along.  It's the 3% vs. the 97%.

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1 hour ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

The Best Americans will get that to which they are entitled, while programming their media machine to tell everyone else that socialism is bad, and that dirty takers should learn to pick themselves up by their bootstraps. 

^^^^^^^^^
This

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2 hours ago, Jules said:

 It also directs billions of dollars in grant funding for states to carry out this year's election through the Election Assistance Commission.

 

Why?  The states have already budgeted the elections this year.

Saying that paying the election expenses would allow that state to transfer the money to public health is nonsense when they could just give them a grant for public health.

 

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1 hour ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

And what our esteemed leaders on the Hill are fighting about at the moment is whether the whole 1% or some lesser amount will be enough to appease the 99%, lest they break out the pitchforks. 

Hope I get enough in order to be able to afford a pitchfork 

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Every penny wil be national debt funded .

Every penny will be money pulled out of the air.

Every penny will further weaken the dollar 

The trillion dollar spending bill combined with the pre virus known trillion dollar existing 2020 deficit combined with the economic downturn could create a $3,000,000,000,000 deficit for 2020.

Every living human in the USA will leave 2020 with an additional $10,000 on his / her lifetime credit card. 

Kids born this year won’t even start paying interest rate on their personal share for 20 years. 
 

Most of the rest of us already enjoy tax breaks that allow us to ignore debt repayment. 
 

Boomers have already undertaxed themselves While enjoying an extra $100, 000 apiece in government services  during their lifetime. 
 

Fuck those Grand kids!!! 

 

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308 million people in the USA +/-  ??  if each Person got $1 million dollars the  govt. would spend $600Billion +/- ...that's $1.4 trillion less  than is proposed now.  ( someone check my math B) )  I think everyone of you could make it through this on that.

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14 minutes ago, Cristoforo said:

 

should have used a calculator like i did ;-)......or an abacus ?  pieces of fruit??  fingers and toes?

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I guess we won't learn. That mortgage idea is a great one, as is the extended and enhanced unemployment. In fact, that's the best one. 100% of avg wages, guaranteed for 6 months. 

Will cost little compared to saving the cruise lines. Saving the cruise lines? Really?

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2 hours ago, Jules said:

There's a lot of talk about who will be getting the lion's share of the assistance politicians in Washington are proposing right now.  The Senate Bill 3548 proposed by McConnell, Alexander, Grassley, Rubio, Shelby, Wicker is said to largely favor corporations, including sending monies, intended to assist the workers, to the corporations instead of directly to the workers.

H.R. 6201, proposed by Nita Lowey is said to prevent corporations from using taxpayer money for stock buybacks, boost unemployment insurance, strengthen the child and earned income tax credits and inject nearly $40 billion into schools and universities to stabilize funding. It also directs billions of dollars in grant funding for states to carry out this year's election through the Election Assistance Commission.

If you were to place a bet, who, or what, will benefit the most once a bill is passed?  The people or the corporations?

As a small business owner who desperately wants help to keep my teem intact, and doesn't want to see my friends suffer, I hope the Collins Rubio idea is retained.   Part time employees get nothing from unemployment.   Full time people get paid by the full week, Sunday to Saturday.  The shutdown started Monday night.   There is a three week processing time, then half pay.    This bill (if they actually get off their asses and do something, and if the application process is doable in a short period of time) will allow us to keep people on the payroll.   Several volunteered to be on call, but they can't do that and collect unemployment.   If they work less then half their normal hours, they are better off not working.   One is able to apply for unemployment, the rest are not.   A couple have social security to fall back on, others nothing.    One person's husband also lost his job.  As a mechanic at a car dealership he got paid by the job, based on book time.   With no business, he wasn't getting paid.   I think he keeps his health insurance for now. 

If a large percent of society has no income, massive credit card debt, car loans, etc then everything will be crippled long after the 'shelter in place' orders are lifted.  The downsizing will cascade for many months, once it starts.    Most of us are still in a holding pattern, cutting hours and trying to watch the wind.   Within the next week or two the cost cutting panic will really set in around the country.   Future business investment is already being cancelled everywhere.   More socialized countries are probably more resilient.   Our governor already warned of massive government cuts as tax revenues plunge.   

If they add the expense of mandatory sick leave, defer compensation until the next year businesses have a profit to declare on income taxes, and leave them in the uncertain position of how long the slowdown will last, how slow it will get and how many will get sick, the solution nervous employers will err on the side of cost cutting.   My priority is to make sure I'm still here in the fall and not so encumbered with a third mortgage (SBA emergency loans are at 3.75%) that it is no longer economically viable to exist.    Overhead is too high for most businesses to exist at a partial capacity.  

I fear they are looking for a way to bail out Trump's Golf buddies.   I hope they are looking for a way to keep the interconnected web of businesses that existed last month fundamentally intact in October or November.  Its not just that people won't go out to eat twice as often or get their hair cut twice, to make up for their current inability.    They won't have the money to get either done for a  very long time.   Nor to do much else.   If you depend on consumer spending, or your customers do, you need a good bill to pass.   If you depend on state or local government spending, you need a good bill to pass.   If the federal government isn't prepared to see next year's tax revenue plummet even faster then the Billionaire Relief Act did, they need to keep Americans working.  

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1 hour ago, dacapo said:

308 million people in the USA +/-  ??  if each Person got $1 million dollars the  govt. would spend $600Billion +/- ...that's $1.4 trillion less  than is proposed now.  ( someone check my math B) )  I think everyone of you could make it through this on that.

308,000,000 x 1,000,000 = 308,000,000,000,000

That's 308 Million times 1 Million =  308 Trillion

Even China doesn't have enough cash to lend us that much.

 

Just sayin'...

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54 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

I guess we won't learn. That mortgage idea is a great one, as is the extended and enhanced unemployment. In fact, that's the best one. 100% of avg wages, guaranteed for 6 months. 

Will cost little compared to saving the cruise lines. Saving the cruise lines? Really?

Cruise lines should be bailed out by the country whose flag flies from their ships. 

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5 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

Cruise lines should be bailed out by the country whose flag flies from their ships. 

Could extend that to corporations and which flag flies from their management's super yachts.

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4 hours ago, Jules said:

If you were to place a bet, who, or what, will benefit the most once a bill is passed?  The people or the corporations?

Jules, it's not like you to posit stupid questions.

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29 minutes ago, Remodel said:

308,000,000 x 1,000,000 = 308,000,000,000,000

That's 308 Million times 1 Million =  308 Trillion

Even China doesn't have enough cash to lend us that much.

 

Just sayin'...

Numbers are evil, treacherous things.  Especially that damn zero.

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Trump could simply cancel all the tariffs he charges. Ya know the burdensome tariffs that are paid by US companies, not China.

I'd even stay silent when he boasts it is because Trump won the trade war.

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34 minutes ago, Remodel said:

308,000,000 x 1,000,000 = 308,000,000,000,000

That's 308 Million times 1 Million =  308 Trillion

Even China doesn't have enough cash to lend us that much.

 

Just sayin'...

thanks for checkin the math....

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My bet on the OP's question is with the facts: The typical corporation will get the bailout money and spend it directly on the owners. The 99% only get trickle-down crumbs if the owners happen to spend some of the windfall.

What I would do: Give it to everyone equally. Per person. The 99% are not going to hoard it into savings accounts. In approximately one day it will be handed over to the corporations via consumerism. Maybe new flat TVs, more likely food and welfare.

I would also propose handing it out on street corners. Do that purple dye on the finger thing like countries do to regulate voting. Yeah, the illegals will get some...and two days later the multinationals will have it. Magic! About 1% will be lost to the 1%, the only downside.

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Take the 2 trillion being bandied about.  Divide it by the 327 million people in the US.  Comes to just over $6100 per capita.  Family of 4 gets about $24,500 assuming kids are the  same value as adults.  Can screw around with the ratios all you want but the KISS principle works.  
For people who file their taxes electronically the Treasury simply deposits the requisite amount into the same account as their refund.  If you owed money then you either choose where you want the money deposited or it becomes a credit balance on the credit card you used to pay your tax bill.  

If you want things handled differently then you file a simple form with the feds.  Of course doing this adds time to the process but it does spread out the time period of the money entering the economy.

If you really want to spread out the impact then funds are made available in the same manner as SS checks, by the date of your birthday 

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I tire of paying for others choice to have children.  You should pay MORE income tax with MORE children, not get a deduction, etc.   I am currently paying $2k yearly of my property taxes to schools and the results are horrid.

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46 minutes ago, solosailor said:

I tire of paying for others choice to have children.  You should pay MORE income tax with MORE children, not get a deduction, etc.   I am currently paying $2k yearly of my property taxes to schools and the results are horrid.

Then go live on a fucking island somewhere you ignoramus.

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4 hours ago, shaggy said:

You want to stimulate??  Wave mortgages for 2 months...  2000+ per month for basically every homeowner without even touching 1 dime of fed taxes.  

 

Will it pass??  Prob not, but you want stimuli..  There you go.  

That's a start. But it still doesn't address the most vulnerable - renters and low income folks without a means to buy a house.

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3 hours ago, Lark said:

As a small business owner who desperately wants help to keep my teem intact, and doesn't want to see my friends suffer, I hope the Collins Rubio idea is retained.

Think that through.

They're bailing out Boeing, not you. You are plenty small enough to fail.

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4 minutes ago, B.J. Porter said:

Think that through.

They're bailing out Boeing, not you. You are plenty small enough to fail.

But if you were a donor of importance say 5-10 mill or more then we'ed find a way to save you,  otherwise we're sorry............. you are fucked

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1 hour ago, solosailor said:

I tire of paying for others choice to have children.  You should pay MORE income tax with MORE children, not get a deduction, etc.   I am currently paying $2k yearly of my property taxes to schools and the results are horrid.

Did you choose to not have kids, or do you act like such a selfish asscarrot that no woman would ever breed with you?

Maybe gay people should not have to pay local school taxes?

- DSK

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Just now, Saorsa said:

So, their 153000 employees should go on unemployment?

 

And their ex-CEO that put the company in dire straights got what, a $60 million golden parachute?

Boeing has fucked themselves with poor management and cutting corners. Yes, they have 153,000 employees.

Is that so different than how we subsidize Walmart not paying people a living wage?

If the company can not managed itself, it should enter Chapter 11 protection and reorganize, and maybe come out with a workable structure and competent management.

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4 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:
1 hour ago, solosailor said:

I tire of paying for others choice to have children.  You should pay MORE income tax with MORE children, not get a deduction, etc.   I am currently paying $2k yearly of my property taxes to schools and the results are horrid.

Did you choose to not have kids, or do you act like such a selfish asscarrot that no woman would ever breed with you?

Maybe gay people should not have to pay local school taxes

And one reason the schools are horrid is all the selfish asscarrots that don't want to pay for them, then bitch about illiterate clerks that can't make change.

image.png.2d503dd9a59c76c1339930b979bdaba0.png

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24 minutes ago, B.J. Porter said:

That's a start. But it still doesn't address the most vulnerable - renters and low income folks without a means to buy a house.

Agreed BJ, but they bitching about BS right now.  They seem close to giving everyone 1,500 pp plus 500/kid that files a return for 2019.  Seems to me that they could just wave the mtg pmt as a simple stopgap so people can plan on that extra $2,000 or so while they hash this out.  With the first coming up, you do not need mail, you do not need bupkis besides a signature.  Just shut em off for a month or 2.  Chase etc... will bitch and moan, but it is almost an instant stimulus.  

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Gubbermint shouldn't be propping up corps cos think of the employees, if the corps can afford to pay the top brass bonuses  even when they do a shitty job and then go to the government cap in hand,  then perhaps they should fail and be forced to restructure their management.

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13 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Did you choose to not have kids, or do you act like such a selfish asscarrot that no woman would ever breed with you?

Maybe gay people should not have to pay local school taxes?

- DSK

HAHAHAHAHAHA 2k/yr...  HAHAHAHAHAHAAH. You are getting off so cheap.  that is 1/4 what my parents pay to schools/yr.  Consider yourself a socialist...  ;)

 

1 hour ago, solosailor said:

I tire of paying for others choice to have children.  You should pay MORE income tax with MORE children, not get a deduction, etc.   I am currently paying $2k yearly of my property taxes to schools and the results are horrid.

 

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14 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

So, their 153000 employees should go on unemployment?

 

I gotta do it..  WOW, Yes, this is what your ilk wanted, but wait, you want to gut unemployment, but will accept a bailout...  WOWOWOWOWOW

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12 minutes ago, B.J. Porter said:

And their ex-CEO that put the company in dire straights got what, a $60 million golden parachute?

Boeing has fucked themselves with poor management and cutting corners. Yes, they have 153,000 employees.

Is that so different than how we subsidize Walmart not paying people a living wage?

If the company can not managed itself, it should enter Chapter 11 protection and reorganize, and maybe come out with a workable structure and competent management.

More eloquent than me my friend, more eloquent than me..  

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52 minutes ago, Ed Lada said:
1 hour ago, solosailor said:

I tire of paying for others choice to have children.  You should pay MORE income tax with MORE children, not get a deduction, etc.   I am currently paying $2k yearly of my property taxes to schools and the results are horrid.

Then go live on a fucking island somewhere you ignoramus.

He's actually got a point Ed - with the world population having already doubled in our lifetime and expected to grow at least 50% more before starting to slide back it's kind of dumb to be encouraging people to have more kids. Every one of our problems can be traced back to too fucking many people.

Maybe jacking up the tax after you've had two?

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1 minute ago, Saorsa said:

Whatcha gotta do? Lie?

As I've read the news of it this morning, the Senate Republican bill has just a bit under 3X the money for corporate bailouts as for individuals. The proposal to give Mnuchin $500 billion to hand out to his buddies was not the biggest number in the list, just the most obvious stinker

And the stupid thing is, where does the corporations' money come from? Customers? Give every last penny of any bail-out to the people, let them bail out the corporations who produce goods and services they need & want.

Capitalism, maybe worth a try this one time

- DSK

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Did you choose to not have kids, or do you act like such a selfish asscarrot that no woman would ever breed with you?

Maybe gay people should not have to pay local school taxes?

Nothing wrong with being gay and gay couples HAVE children you uninformed asshat.  Going strong 28 years with the same woman.  No kids were a choice.

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And one reason the schools are horrid is all the selfish asscarrots that don't want to pay for them, then bitch about illiterate clerks that can't make change.

I wouldn't bitch about paying if they got results.   Don't you think $2k of a $14k tax bill going to schools is enough?   I wouldn't complain as much but my city tacks on nearly $800 of that $2k vs neighboring cities.   Hence one of the main reasons we are relocating.

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Maybe jacking up the tax after you've had two?

I'd say no tax break at all for kids and a slight increase for each you have.   Seems fair enough.  You ARE using more energy, services, roads, etc with MORE people.  No way around that math.  I know not breading has major implication for many people of "faith" and it certainly doesn't hold up the growing pyramid scheme that is the way we handle capitalism now.   I'm pro-capitalism but not government favoring companies over people and entitlements and tax breaks for them.

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Just now, solosailor said:

 I know not breading has major implication for many people of "faith" and it certainly doesn't hold up the growing pyramid scheme that is the way we handle capitalism now.  

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/10/health/us-fertility-rate-replacement-cdc-study/index.html

the bread-ing is worth the squeeze

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35 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

As I've read the news of it this morning, the Senate Republican bill has just a bit under 3X the money for corporate bailouts as for individuals. The proposal to give Mnuchin $500 billion to hand out to his buddies was not the biggest number in the list, just the most obvious stinker

And the stupid thing is, where does the corporations' money come from? Customers? Give every last penny of any bail-out to the people, let them bail out the corporations who produce goods and services they need & want.

Capitalism, maybe worth a try this one time

- DSK

We've been doing "Supply side" voodoo economics for a generation+. While it has achieved the unstated objective of concentrating money in the hands of the richest, it has failed spectacularly at the stated objective of stimulating economic growth.

 

I propose..."Demand Side Economics". Give millions of people money, let them buy things and spend it.

Gimme a moment with a cocktail napkin and I will sketch out the new "Porter Curve" so I can scribe my name in the annals of economic history next to Smith and Laffer.

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18 minutes ago, solosailor said:

That's great news !   Less people is the goal for me.   There is NO reason to grow the population.   Imagine if the world have 1/3-1/2 the people on it.   Imagine how much long these resources would last.

The legislators of the country long ago determined that the only way for things like real estate, salaries, and stock markets to appreciate is to grow.  The only way to grow is either to have babies or bring in immigrants.  Tax policy for a long time directly subsidizes breeding and the education of the little troglodytes in order to support the policy of encouraging domestic population growth rather than immigration growth. The only reason Jeebus got involved is that the lobbyists and corporate-supported lawmakers had to come up with an excuse for it so they could get support from the dumb states and the rural home school idiots. they told them it was all about supporting 'be fruitful and multiply' and problem solved.

Here's the thing though: If you have ever benefitted from the appreciation of your property values, your income, or your security holdings, you have directly benefitted from this policy.  If your ability to relocate is in part due to your benefitting from the appreciation of your income or assets, your complaint is maybe a tad hypocritical.

For what it's worth, I agree with you that subsidized population growth is not a sustainable policy.  But that's what it takes to make so many billionaires. 

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We have doubled social security payments. All jobseekers (What we call the unwmployed) and other SS recipients to get an extra 550 per fortnight.

Newly unemployed get immediate access without having to produce ID in person. it's all on line.

That's if they can manage not to crash the system.B)  Hey ho.

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54 minutes ago, solosailor said:

That's great news !   Less people is the goal for me.   There is NO reason to grow the population.   Imagine if the world have 1/3-1/2 the people on it.   Imagine how much long these resources would last.

Wow, you are a selfish fuck.

Who do you think is going to pay your Social Security benefits?

Go to your fucking island and be totally self sufficient.  We don't need your kind in society.  

If you want less people on this world, you and people that think like you would be a good place to start culling the herd.

You can change you name here to asshole sailor.

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5 hours ago, Remodel said:

308,000,000 x 1,000,000 = 308,000,000,000,000

That's 308 Million times 1 Million =  308 Trillion

Even China doesn't have enough cash to lend us that much.

 

Just sayin'...

Also, if everybody was instantly a millionaire, that would cause colossal inflation and negate most of the value of that $1m within a week.

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Selfish because I didn't have kids to pay SSI benefits?  That is an interesting point of view and way to go jumping all over me anarchy style.   I never said I wanted to be self sufficient.   People need people....   I'm just saying we need less people.   

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22 minutes ago, solosailor said:

Selfish because I didn't have kids to pay SSI benefits?  That is an interesting point of view and way to go jumping all over me anarchy style.   I never said I wanted to be self sufficient.   People need people....   I'm just saying we need less people.   

Maybe if over the generations, people got smaller instead of bigger, you could have less people and the gubbermint and big bidness could have their more people

Win-Win

- DSK

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Ed are you a USA citizen?   Aren't you off spending your money in Poland?   Why do you begrudge me after our household has put a shit ton of taxes, more than our fair share since we were both productivity working at 18 and now that we want to travel, not beholden to a large property tax bill you say "We don't need your kind in society" because we haven't produced good little tax payers to fund this corporatocracy?   Well FUCK OFF, especially if you're an ex-pat..... that would make you a hypocrite as well.   We will still be living and owning property here in the US and travel, paying plenty of USA taxes.   Where are you spending your money again?   

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4 hours ago, Nice! said:

Also, if everybody was instantly a millionaire, that would cause colossal inflation and negate most of the value of that $1m within a week.

Especially after they all run out and bulk buy all the cigarettes and Budweiser beer..........

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6 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

For what it's worth, I agree with you that subsidized population growth is not a sustainable policy.  But that's what it takes to make so many billionaires. 

Not really - you just give them all the money directly.

It's certainly working for this current bunch.

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1 hour ago, solosailor said:

Why do you begrudge me after our household has put a shit ton of taxes, more than our fair share since we were both productivity working at 18 and now that we want to travel, not beholden to a large property tax bill you say "We don't need your kind in society" because we haven't produced good little tax payers to fund this corporatocracy?   Well FUCK OFF, especially if you're an ex-pat..... that would make you a hypocrite as well.   We will still be living and owning property here in the US and travel, paying plenty of USA taxes.   Where are you spending your money again?   

Did your assets increase in value over the past 40 years?  If so, no one is begrudging you that increase.  Ed and I may be wondering why you are complaining about one of the main drivers of that increase, which is subsidized population growth.

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8 hours ago, solosailor said:

Ed are you a USA citizen?   Aren't you off spending your money in Poland?   Why do you begrudge me after our household has put a shit ton of taxes, more than our fair share since we were both productivity working at 18 and now that we want to travel, not beholden to a large property tax bill you say "We don't need your kind in society" because we haven't produced good little tax payers to fund this corporatocracy?   Well FUCK OFF, especially if you're an ex-pat..... that would make you a hypocrite as well.   We will still be living and owning property here in the US and travel, paying plenty of USA taxes.   Where are you spending your money again?   

Yes, I am a US citizen and the last time I lived in the US was 1996.  So I guess that makes me an expat.

And  the icing on the cake is thanks to productive citizens like you, I have spent my money in Korea, Germany and Poland.  I worked in civil service until 2008, so the US government paid my salary in addition to my VA disability benefits.  Two years ago, I started to collect my Social Security.  So for the last 24 years I have existed solely on US government money.   And I will continue to do so unproductively for the rest of my life.   

I'll be that really pisses you off that all of your hard work over the years has been helping me.  

Never mind that as a soldier and a civil service employee I paid US taxes on money that the government was paying me.  And never mind that as a soldier stationed overseas, and as a civil service worker, working in a foreign country I paid income tax on my wages, something that private individuals working outside of the US are exempt from doing up to a rather generous amount.

Since my disability income is non-taxable and my SS income isn't very high, I don't pay US income tax anymore.  And yes, I am spending all of my US dollars on my life of luxury in Poland.

I don't understand your point that you and your wife want to travel but still have to pay property taxes.  I have one word for you.  Choices.  Sell your precious property.  Become an expat, there are many countries that offer generous tax consideration to wealth y expats that buy property in their country.  Apparently, if you are retired and still paying plenty of taxes, then you must have plenty of money.

It appears you are the hypocrite.  You built your life with plenty of taxpayer funded infrastructure.  You benefited from the tax payer funded public education of almost every individual in US society.  You managed to make some money, and now that you have it, you are the typical 'fuck you, I got mine' selfish bastard whining about paying taxes.  You didn't build that alone. 

If you don't like your situation, then change it or shut the fuck up.  Sell you onerously taxed property, leave the country.  And get the fuck off my lawn.

Oh, and thank you for your generous support over the years.

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McConnell seems anxious to get his bill passed.  Anytime Moscow Mitch pushes for passage of a bill, it's time to worry.  Here's some of what his bill includes:

  • one-time payments of $1,200 per adult and $500 per child
  • $367 billion for small businesses
  • $500 billion for loans to larger industries
  • $100 billion for hospitals and health system
  • $50 billion for protective equipment for health care workers, testing supplies, workforce training, new construction to house patients, and coronavirus medical research. 
  • $600 more per week in unemployment benefits for those out of work.

That $1,200 is a drop in the ocean but the extra $600/wk in unemployment benefits could help a lot of people.

As for the $867 billion going to businesses, I'd imagine a lot of that will be loan payments.  But if a business is shut down, where would the rest of the money go?

Any economists here?

 

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7 minutes ago, Jules said:

McConnell seems anxious to get his bill passed.  Anytime Moscow Mitch pushes for passage of a bill, it's time to worry.  Here's some of what his bill includes:

  • one-time payments of $1,200 per adult and $500 per child
  • $367 billion for small businesses
  • $500 billion for loans to larger industries
  • $100 billion for hospitals and health system
  • $50 billion for protective equipment for health care workers, testing supplies, workforce training, new construction to house patients, and coronavirus medical research. 
  • $600 more per week in unemployment benefits for those out of work.

That $1,200 is a drop in the ocean but the extra $600/wk in unemployment benefits could help a lot of people.

As for the $867 billion going to businesses, I'd imagine a lot of that will be loan payments.  But if a business is shut down, where would the rest of the money go?

Any economists here?

 

According to my brother in law, who owns a prominent small business lending company, much of the small business stimulus will be administered by companies like his.  They already have the contacts, they already have the pathways, and the trump admin really likes giving private businesses money to do the job of government.

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4 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

We've just extended our extra $550t o welfare recipients  PF to Students.

Poor people spend local.

Yep, the right way to do it. IF you want to save small businesses...

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A very good point here by Dean Baker (who regularly provides very good economic analysis - AJ sez check it out) 

It is more than a bit painful to see Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi go through a silly charade of imposing conditions on the $500 billion slush fund that McConnell has made a centerpiece of the Senate bill. Those of us who have been alive for the last three years know that there is exactly zero chance that Trump and Mnuchin will comply with any oversight conditions.

It is the official position of the Trump administration (argued in court cases) that they don’t have to turn over a damn thing to Congress. Do Schumer and Pelosi not know this?

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3 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

According to my brother in law, who owns a prominent small business lending company, much of the small business stimulus will be administered by companies like his.  They already have the contacts, they already have the pathways, and the trump admin really likes giving private businesses money to do the job of government.

So the money slated for businesses will go to banks and lending institutions and then be doled out to the businesses?  No direct payments to businesses?

___________________________________

On another note - I watched a clip by Carly Fiorino who was asked what she thought about the 1/2 trillion dollars slated for big corporations.  She said she thought it was too early and felt it might not ever be necessary. 

She cited the $50B slated for the airlines as an example.  She pointed out they have used their recent windfall profits to buy back $42B in stocks.  If needed, they could always operate under bankruptcy, as they have in the past, but the government shouldn't be bolstering their profits when so many Americans badly need financial assistance.

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9 minutes ago, AJ Oliver said:

A very good point here by Dean Baker (who regularly provides very good economic analysis - AJ sez check it out) 

It is more than a bit painful to see Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi go through a silly charade of imposing conditions on the $500 billion slush fund that McConnell has made a centerpiece of the Senate bill. Those of us who have been alive for the last three years know that there is exactly zero chance that Trump and Mnuchin will comply with any oversight conditions.

It is the official position of the Trump administration (argued in court cases) that they don’t have to turn over a damn thing to Congress. Do Schumer and Pelosi not know this?

Democrats have big donors, too.  And they always demand their pound of flesh from those who take their money.  Unfortunately, it's American flesh from which that pound comes.  It costs our politicians nothing.

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4 hours ago, Jules said:

McConnell seems anxious to get his bill passed.  Anytime Moscow Mitch pushes for passage of a bill, it's time to worry.  Here's some of what his bill includes:

  • one-time payments of $1,200 per adult and $500 per child
  • $367 billion for small businesses
  • $500 billion for loans to larger industries
  • $100 billion for hospitals and health system
  • $50 billion for protective equipment for health care workers, testing supplies, workforce training, new construction to house patients, and coronavirus medical research. 
  • $600 more per week in unemployment benefits for those out of work.

That $1,200 is a drop in the ocean but the extra $600/wk in unemployment benefits could help a lot of people.

As for the $867 billion going to businesses, I'd imagine a lot of that will be loan payments.  But if a business is shut down, where would the rest of the money go?

Any economists here?

 

So who's gonna pay for all of this? Are we just going to print money, or are we going to borrow it? Who would have that kind of coin to lend us, and why would they when they probably have issues of their own to deal with?

I'm not an economist, but I foresee a recession and inflation increase regardless.

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4 minutes ago, Remodel said:

So who's gonna pay for all of this? Are we just going to print money, or are we going to borrow it? Who would have that kind of coin to lend us, and why would they when they probably have issues of their own to deal with?

I'm not an economist, but I foresee a recession and inflation increase regardless.

There is no get out of jail free card in this situation.  A miles-long freight train is coming to a halt.  It will take a long time to bring it back up to speed.

And yeah, we're going to print money.

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4 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

According to my brother in law, who owns a prominent small business lending company, much of the small business stimulus will be administered by companies like his.  They already have the contacts, they already have the pathways, and the trump admin really likes giving private businesses money to do the job of government.

 

5 hours ago, Jules said:

McConnell seems anxious to get his bill passed.  Anytime Moscow Mitch pushes for passage of a bill, it's time to worry.  Here's some of what his bill includes:

  • one-time payments of $1,200 per adult and $500 per child
  • $367 billion for small businesses
  • $500 billion for loans to larger industries
  • $100 billion for hospitals and health system
  • $50 billion for protective equipment for health care workers, testing supplies, workforce training, new construction to house patients, and coronavirus medical research. 
  • $600 more per week in unemployment benefits for those out of work.

That $1,200 is a drop in the ocean but the extra $600/wk in unemployment benefits could help a lot of people.

As for the $867 billion going to businesses, I'd imagine a lot of that will be loan payments.  But if a business is shut down, where would the rest of the money go?

Any economists here?

 

Still searching for small business aspect.   Any actual details or is it just vague promises?  

McConnell may just be getting scared and feeling the need to withdraw to his spider hole.    Once this bill has passed he won't be an essential employee anymore.   Its not like these guys are going to fundraising dinners anymore, what else is there to keep them in DC?    Congress gets paid whether they are in session or not.   

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8 minutes ago, Lark said:

 

Still searching for small business aspect.   Any actual details or is it just vague promises?  

We didn't get into the details, but he has had a lobbying group working on it for a while, alongside I am sure a couple hundred lobbyists for the rest of the fincos.  I suspect the small business departments of many of them will share in the identification and distribution of the SB assistance.  To be clear, he did not say that the government was going to 'give' these firms cash and let them figure out how to spend it. The point was more about the government not having to build infrastructure to process claims, and using what they might have spent on that to pay fees to the disbursers.  It would be smart if half those fincos weren't so obviously shady, losing or settling hundreds of fraud claims, class actions, and arbitrations every year...

Spent a half hour on the phone with him and was just happy i could get that much info.  he has 450 employees and a shit storm to deal with right now.

 

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