Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Well like everyone, Scomo wants us to all open up and the feds have shown that their wishes are that the sooner states open their borders and ease restrictions the better.

We all know how much stress this will put on our Hospital systems.

And yet pleas from all states to increase health funding from the commonwealth are falling on deaf ears. 

One wonders if the Feds actually "get" what's going on with this disease.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-10-05/state-health-ministers-demand-hospital-crisis-funding/100515186

"We have been showering the states with money over the course of COVID, whether it's been in JobKeeper or economic supports, including in Queensland, where they haven't had lockdowns, but we've still been providing business support for those affected by their border closure," he told Nine.

"They [the states] need to get on and run their public hospital system and not … seek to make excuses about it, get on and do their job. They're responsible for it."

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 14k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • jack_sparrow

    2853

  • ShortForBob

    1968

  • The Dark Knight

    1404

  • LB 15

    1392

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

The people who aren't on the news, the nurses, drs, police etc are fucking legends. The professionals deserve as much thanks as we can muster. And that starts with us helping them and gettin

Had our second AZ jab on Thursday. Rolled up at 7am to the doctors, people waiting in line out the front and a receptionist popping in and out like a yoyo keeping tabs on the number of people.  

No, they well and truely live off me (and others who work in the private world and earn enough to be a net contributor to government)

Posted Images

32 minutes ago, ShortForBob said:

"They [the states] need to get on and run their public hospital system and not … seek to make excuses about it, get on and do their job. They're responsible for it."

QLD & WA have hospital systems that are strained without Covid. It's their fault.

This reminds me of a friend. His son who works for him would piss his salary up the wall and daddy would have to bail him out at rent time. I guess you will accuse me of lying again and making up this story.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, The Dark Knight said:

QLD & WA have hospital systems that are strained without Covid. It's their fault.

This reminds me of a friend. His son who works for him would piss his salary up the wall and daddy would have to bail him out at rent time. I guess you will accuse me of lying again and making up this story.

And the other states?

You can cherry pick all you like, but easing restrictions is going to cause an explosion in hospitalisation all over the country.

Are Greg Hunt and Scott Morrison responsible for the health of all  Australians or not?

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, ShortForBob said:

And the other states?

You can cherry pick all you like, but easing restrictions is going to cause an explosion in hospitalisation all over the country.

Are Greg Hunt and Scott Morrison responsible for the health of all  Australians or not?

As far as I can tell, Dan had the Vic hospital system in good shape pre-pandemic and the same for NSW. Someone has mentioned that Tassie is fucked and I have no clue about SA or NT. I can't imagine that the Feds would have allows the ACT have a substandard hospital system.

The feds are not responsible for how the states (mis)manage their hospital system. Perhaps if they were, then the states would not have CHO's and we would have a unified Covid-19 strategy.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, ShortForBob said:

And the other states?

You can cherry pick all you like, but easing restrictions is going to cause an explosion in hospitalisation all over the country.

Are Greg Hunt and Scott Morrison responsible for the health of all  Australians or not?

They should keep everyone locked up all summer. Surely by your leftard way of thinking, Skin cancer is the responsibility of the Feds as well. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, The Dark Knight said:

As far as I can tell, Dan had the Vic hospital system in good shape pre-pandemic and the same for NSW. Someone has mentioned that Tassie is fucked and I have no clue about SA or NT. I can't imagine that the Feds would have allows the ACT have a substandard hospital system.

The feds are not responsible for how the states (mis)manage their hospital system. Perhaps if they were, then the states would not have CHO's and we would have a unified Covid-19 strategy.

 

So a Pandemic makes no difference. Australians can follow the PM's wishes, open up their borders, ease lockdown restrictions and suffer the consequences without any increased federal funding for hospitals to care for the collateral damage?

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

They should keep everyone locked up all summer. Surely by your leftard way of thinking, Skin cancer is the responsibility of the Feds as well. 

Another deflector.

We all want to open up. However the feds acknowledge this will put unimaginable strain on our hospitals and unbearable pressure on our Nurses and other health staff. 

Their response that the states should be prepared to cope without Federal help is OK with you is it?

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, ShortForBob said:

Another deflector.

We all want to open up. However the feds acknowledge this will put unimaginable strain on our hospitals and unbearable pressure on our Nurses and other health staff. 

Their response that the states should be prepared to cope without Federal help is OK with you is it?

No you have used the terms ‘unimaginable strain’ and ‘unbearable pressure’ not them. As usual you are making shit up to fit your hysterical narrative. 

It is going to happen regardless of your crying on social media. The unvaccinated in QLD will be smashed by a completely fucked up health system- that the Feds have poured billions into. The ALP have held government in QLD for 27 out of the past 30 years so everything is their fault. 

Sadly people will die of covid and as Victoria has amply demonstrated, lock downs dont stop that anymore. 

But looking to the future, we can only hope that the Internet is poor in Greek covid hospitals.

Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, The Dark Knight said:

QLD & WA have hospital systems that are strained without Covid. It's their fault.

This reminds me of a friend. His son who works for him would piss his salary up the wall and daddy would have to bail him out at rent time. I guess you will accuse me of lying again and making up this story.

Cool story bro.

If the feds are going to increase stress on the system by their actions, they need to compensate.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

No you have used the terms ‘unimaginable strain’ and ‘unbearable pressure’ not them. As usual you are making shit up to fit your hysterical narrative. 

It is going to happen regardless of your crying on social media. The unvaccinated in QLD will be smashed by a completely fucked up health system- that the Feds have poured billions into. The ALP have held government in QLD for 27 out of the past 30 years so everything is their fault. 

Sadly people will die of covid and as Victoria has amply demonstrated, lock downs dont stop that anymore. 

We can only hope that the Internet is poor in Greek covid hospitals.

I hope your laughing at the southern states does not cause a heart attack.

Your hospital bed has a covid patient already in it...

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I noticed that the next freedom goal for more vax includes "no more masks in the office."

Fuck. I wouldn't do that unless there was great ventilation and I knew that my coworkers weren't holdouts. But y'all do y'all. What would Crocodile Dundee do?

Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

No you have used the terms ‘unimaginable strain’ and ‘unbearable pressure’ not them. As usual you are making shit up to fit your hysterical narrative. 

It is going to happen regardless of your crying on social media. The unvaccinated in QLD will be smashed by a completely fucked up health system- that the Feds have poured billions into. The ALP have held government in QLD for 27 out of the past 30 years so everything is their fault. 

Sadly people will die of covid and as Victoria has amply demonstrated, lock downs dont stop that anymore. 

But looking to the future, we can only hope that the Internet is poor in Greek covid hospitals.

you realise that neither you or DK have addressed the issue of the federal government abandoning Australians to an unprecedentedly  over stretched Hospital system. 

 

 

 

 

k

Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, Ease the sheet. said:

I hope your laughing at the southern states does not cause a heart attack.

Your hospital bed has a covid patient already in it...

Well not up here is dosn’t. But it will. I am not laughing at the southern states- I am appalled by what I am seeing. Now our cunt of a premier is claiming everyone will need a booster shot before opening the boarders. She knows what we all have for years. Our hospital system is fucked and she has had 18 months with zero covid to do something about it. She is like a deer in the headlights and Screw Turner is going to screw her in the Supreme Court. 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

this puts the situation very well

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-10-07/hospitals-cope-covid-reopening-political-bickering-pre-pandemic/100518328

Amidst excitement in locked-down states at the prospect of sending kids back to school or finally visiting the pub, there's a nervousness about how hospitals will cope after the grand re-opening.

Indeed, this concern extends to the COVID-free states as well, where stories abound of health systems already under intense pressure, even before borders are thrown open and the virus is allowed in.

The fear is that there won't be enough hospital beds to go around. The response has been a return to pre-COVID levels of political bickering over who's to blame.

LIVE UPDATES: Read our blog for the latest news on the COVID-19 pandemic

All state and territory health ministers wrote to the federal government last week, requesting "immediate additional Commonwealth funding to support pressures currently on our health systems".

Whether a jurisdiction is battling a COVID outbreak or not, all states claim they're dealing with the added burden of infection control procedures, daily PCR testing, a pre-existing trend of higher admissions and too many patients who should be in aged or disability care rather than hospital. Specifically, they want a guarantee the 50-50 funding deal to cover COVID health costs will continue until mid-2023.

The Prime Minister responded with an accusation of "shakedown politics" by the states. "They just need to get on with the job, get their hospitals ready," Scott Morrison said. "We have showered the states in cash when it comes to the health system."

The PM pointed to the fact the Commonwealth had increased hospital funding by 70 per cent since 2013, compared to a 40 per cent increase by the states. When the Queensland Premier threatened to keep her state's border closed until more hospital funding flowed, Morrison labelled this extortion.

Queensland Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk speaking about COVID-19 on the Gold Coast
Annastacia Palaszczuk threatened to keep Queensland's border closed until more hospital funding flows.(

ABC News: Kimberley Bernard

)

Tough talk won't fix the problem

It's true the Commonwealth has stumped up a lot during this pandemic — both in economic supports, and through the 50-50 hospital funding deal. It's racked up record levels of debt, while the states have called the shots on lockdowns and border closures. One state, Western Australia, has even managed to keep its budget in surplus.

 

Some states clearly could have done more to improve their hospital systems in recent years, even if they lack the Commonwealth's capacity to raise funds. The federal frustration at another plea for cash is obvious.

The tough talk and attempt to stare down the states, however, won't necessarily fix the problem. Health workers in most states are under extraordinary pressure to keep up with demand.

Most Australians will expect the two levels of government to have worked together to ensure hospitals can cope when the long-awaited moment finally arrives to move beyond lockdowns. What's the point of all the "re-opening roadmaps" if they can't?

Then there are longer-term questions. How long will hospitals need to cope with the additional burden of COVID? What strain will this virus add to a health system already facing rising costs? Are we, as a nation, prepared to properly fund the health system we want and expect? Where will the money come from? And how do we make our economy more productive to fund these services?

What about raising more revenue?

Neither side of politics is yet to properly grapple with these questions, particularly when it comes to raising more revenue. There's an expectation of an immediate economic bounce once lockdowns end, and a steady recovery. 

There's now a bi-partisan commitment to delivering stage 3 tax cuts for middle and high-income earners, while keeping negative gearing and franking credit rules untouched.

We're yet to see any serious proposals that will deliver increased revenue to fund the higher spending needed for hospitals, aged care, and disability care — not to mention nuclear submarines.

a man wearing glasses looking
As state treasurer, Dominic Perrottet often spoke of reforming the GST. Will he continue the fight as Premier?(

AAP: Dan Himbrechts

)

The new NSW Premier Dominic Perrottet comes to the job as a champion of reform. As state treasurer, Perrottet often spoke of reforming the GST, as recommended by nearly every review of the tax system. Whether he's prepared to continue the fight now he's in the top job and trying to appeal to voters, however, is another matter.

As treasurer in the Turnbull government, Scott Morrison once looked at GST reform options, but quickly concluded it wasn't worth it. As Prime Minister, he's shown no interest in returning to the subject.

As a weary electorate emerges from lockdown, neither side of politics at the state or federal level appears to be in a rush to kickstart a debate about raising revenue. It's much easier to take pot-shots at each other.

Ultimately, however, someone will need to bite this bullet and find a solution to the growing demands on the budget.

David Speers is the host of Insiders, which airs on ABC TV at 9am on Sunday or on iView.

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, ShortForBob said:

you realise that neither you or DK have addressed the issue of the federal government abandoning Australians to an unprecedentedly  over stretched Hospital system. 

 

 

 

 

k

Why would we? - it is just more twisted emotive bullshit. The Feds are not there to fix up the states fuckups. Opening up cannot be done with out pain you stupid women. You live in la-la land.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, ShortForBob said:

this puts the situation very well

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-10-07/hospitals-cope-covid-reopening-political-bickering-pre-pandemic/100518328

Amidst excitement in locked-down states at the prospect of sending kids back to school or finally visiting the pub, there's a nervousness about how hospitals will cope after the grand re-opening.

Indeed, this concern extends to the COVID-free states as well, where stories abound of health systems already under intense pressure, even before borders are thrown open and the virus is allowed in.

The fear is that there won't be enough hospital beds to go around. The response has been a return to pre-COVID levels of political bickering over who's to blame.

LIVE UPDATES: Read our blog for the latest news on the COVID-19 pandemic

All state and territory health ministers wrote to the federal government last week, requesting "immediate additional Commonwealth funding to support pressures currently on our health systems".

Whether a jurisdiction is battling a COVID outbreak or not, all states claim they're dealing with the added burden of infection control procedures, daily PCR testing, a pre-existing trend of higher admissions and too many patients who should be in aged or disability care rather than hospital. Specifically, they want a guarantee the 50-50 funding deal to cover COVID health costs will continue until mid-2023.

The Prime Minister responded with an accusation of "shakedown politics" by the states. "They just need to get on with the job, get their hospitals ready," Scott Morrison said. "We have showered the states in cash when it comes to the health system."

The PM pointed to the fact the Commonwealth had increased hospital funding by 70 per cent since 2013, compared to a 40 per cent increase by the states. When the Queensland Premier threatened to keep her state's border closed until more hospital funding flowed, Morrison labelled this extortion.

Queensland Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk speaking about COVID-19 on the Gold Coast

Annastacia Palaszczuk threatened to keep Queensland's border closed until more hospital funding flows.(

ABC News: Kimberley Bernard

)

Tough talk won't fix the problem

It's true the Commonwealth has stumped up a lot during this pandemic — both in economic supports, and through the 50-50 hospital funding deal. It's racked up record levels of debt, while the states have called the shots on lockdowns and border closures. One state, Western Australia, has even managed to keep its budget in surplus.

 

Some states clearly could have done more to improve their hospital systems in recent years, even if they lack the Commonwealth's capacity to raise funds. The federal frustration at another plea for cash is obvious.

The tough talk and attempt to stare down the states, however, won't necessarily fix the problem. Health workers in most states are under extraordinary pressure to keep up with demand.

Most Australians will expect the two levels of government to have worked together to ensure hospitals can cope when the long-awaited moment finally arrives to move beyond lockdowns. What's the point of all the "re-opening roadmaps" if they can't?

Then there are longer-term questions. How long will hospitals need to cope with the additional burden of COVID? What strain will this virus add to a health system already facing rising costs? Are we, as a nation, prepared to properly fund the health system we want and expect? Where will the money come from? And how do we make our economy more productive to fund these services?

What about raising more revenue?

Neither side of politics is yet to properly grapple with these questions, particularly when it comes to raising more revenue. There's an expectation of an immediate economic bounce once lockdowns end, and a steady recovery. 

There's now a bi-partisan commitment to delivering stage 3 tax cuts for middle and high-income earners, while keeping negative gearing and franking credit rules untouched.

We're yet to see any serious proposals that will deliver increased revenue to fund the higher spending needed for hospitals, aged care, and disability care — not to mention nuclear submarines.

a man wearing glasses looking

As state treasurer, Dominic Perrottet often spoke of reforming the GST. Will he continue the fight as Premier?(

AAP: Dan Himbrechts

)

The new NSW Premier Dominic Perrottet comes to the job as a champion of reform. As state treasurer, Perrottet often spoke of reforming the GST, as recommended by nearly every review of the tax system. Whether he's prepared to continue the fight now he's in the top job and trying to appeal to voters, however, is another matter.

As treasurer in the Turnbull government, Scott Morrison once looked at GST reform options, but quickly concluded it wasn't worth it. As Prime Minister, he's shown no interest in returning to the subject.

As a weary electorate emerges from lockdown, neither side of politics at the state or federal level appears to be in a rush to kickstart a debate about raising revenue. It's much easier to take pot-shots at each other.

Ultimately, however, someone will need to bite this bullet and find a solution to the growing demands on the budget.

David Speers is the host of Insiders, which airs on ABC TV at 9am on Sunday or on iView.

Blah blah blah. A opinion piece from the socialist sheltered workshop. Who could be fucked even reading it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Someone fixed it. Impressive that Queensland has no new community cases for a couple of days, long may that last, even though inevitably it must end. The cases on a ship sound miserable, last place I'd want to get covid.

2107801752_ScreenShot2021-10-06at9_13_59PM.png.7d9cc3b0fab58a4344f62c070d221ce6.png

Link to post
Share on other sites

Silly question from afar. What is the point of continuing to enforce quarantine for folk entering Victoria or NSW? They at most would add one or two new cases each day, of no consequence given the widespread covid infections locally. I can see the other states maintaining their quarantine requirements as long as possible. Surely most Australians overseas who want to return are coming back to those two states, so why not let them return without quarantine? I can see restricting tourists till all of Australia has opened up, as tourists by their nature want to travel around, but returning residents would be restricted to those two states, just as locals currently are.

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, TheDragon said:

Silly question from afar. What is the point of continuing to enforce quarantine for folk entering Victoria or NSW? They at most would add one or two new cases each day, of no consequence given the widespread covid infections locally. I can see the other states maintaining their quarantine requirements as long as possible. Surely most Australians overseas who want to return are coming back to those two states, so why not let them return without quarantine? I can see restricting tourists till all of Australia has opened up, as tourists by their nature want to travel around, but returning residents would be restricted to those two states, just as locals currently are.

Reduces the spread.

For the moment cases are relatively few in the inner east, south and eastern sides of Melbourne and the peninsulars.

People coming from NSW will be from all over Victoria.

image.thumb.png.be51c1a82ef1c24269185fbe4645b3bd.png

image.thumb.png.deabc7a1de16d6c8bf7a6da52ff4aea0.png

image.thumb.png.7b3892d63aa450f55fc199674d5621c4.png

Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry, I meant for folks returning from overseas. I understood you all still have a few compatriots wanting to return down under.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, ShortForBob said:

Reduces the spread.

For the moment cases are relatively few in the inner east, south and eastern sides of Melbourne and the peninsulars.

People coming from NSW will be from all over Victoria.

 

And most of them will be coming from LGA's with few to no cases of covid.

So the short answer is - bloody-mindedness on the part of the State Govts who are happy to fuck over their own citizens so people like Meli can maintain a bubble of happiness that SOMETHING is being done.

Regardless of its effectiveness.

On which subject, anyone want to revisit the effectiveness of curfews on stopping the spread of covid and how more places should do it harder?

I thought not.

FKT

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, TheDragon said:

Sorry, I meant for folks returning from overseas. I understood you all still have a few compatriots wanting to return down under.

Depends.

Fully vaxed and with a negative covid test, come home, go home, have a 2nd test then out & about as soon as no 2 test is negative.

Not fully vaxed, stay overseas until you are.

FKT

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

And most of them will be coming from LGA's with few to no cases of covid.

So the short answer is - bloody-mindedness on the part of the State Govts who are happy to fuck over their own citizens so people like Meli can maintain a bubble of happiness that SOMETHING is being done.

Regardless of its effectiveness.

On which subject, anyone want to revisit the effectiveness of curfews on stopping the spread of covid and how more places should do it harder?

I thought not.

FKT

trying to prove a negative again?

Curfew has a measurable effect on traffic movement after 9pm. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, ShortForBob said:

trying to prove a negative again?

Curfew has a measurable effect on traffic movement after 9pm. 

And, counterfactually, covid cases went UP during the curfew.

So by your logic, curfews increase covid even though traffic movements went down.

Just what was the point of the curfew again?

FKT

Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

Blah blah blah. A opinion piece from the socialist sheltered workshop. Who could be fucked even reading it.

read this one then.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-06/covid-hospital-health-care-workers-stress/100423832

It speaks for itself that every one of you rusted on Libs have avoided the issue.

Even when it's not a State Lib V Labor issue.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

And, counterfactually, covid cases went UP during the curfew.

So by your logic, curfews increase covid even though traffic movements went down.

Just what was the point of the curfew again?

FKT

Cases went up during curfew?

So if NSW introduced a curfew now, you'd accept it worked because cases are coming down?

Link to post
Share on other sites

But aren't most people hospitalized with covid unvaccinated or partly vaccinated? That is certainly the case in the USA. The slammed areas are the idiot southern states with low vax rates.

Once you get to 80 % and open up, why do you expect hospitals to be so inundated? Most vaccinated people that get a breakthrough case--a very small percentage do--do not end up in a hospital. 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

But aren't most people hospitalized with covid unvaccinated or partly vaccinated? That is certainly the case in the USA. The slammed areas are the idiot southern states with low vax rates.

Once you get to 80 % and open up, why do you expect hospitals to be so inundated? Most vaccinated people that get a breakthrough case--a very small percentage do--do not end up in a hospital. 

 

Because States are relaxing restrictions at 70% of australians over 16 vaxed.

That's going to leave a lot of kids and covitiots unvaccinated. over 40%.

Annoying and irresponsible at the latter are, we don't allow people to go untreated in Australia.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, ShortForBob said:

read this one then.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-06/covid-hospital-health-care-workers-stress/100423832

It speaks for itself that every one of you rusted on Libs have avoided the issue.

Even when it's not a State Lib V Labor issue.

 

 

The ABC again. You just don’t get it do you?

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, LB 15 said:

The ABC again. You just don’t get it do you?

Yes I do, but It's not my fault you prefer to be ignorant and It's my job to help you overcome your disabilities and come into the light. :P

Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Ease the sheet. said:

 

We can't all get our news from Facebook

 

Only anti vaxxers get their 'news' from FB - I have disowned (or avoided anyway) 2 friends who are of the 5G/Bill Gates/microchip brigade - if you're only getting your news from a closed-shop lefty organisation such as the ABC, you're doomed to be a lefty forever - and that's no way to be

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Dark Cloud said:

Only anti vaxxers get their 'news' from FB - I have disowned (or avoided anyway) 2 friends who are of the 5G/Bill Gates/microchip brigade - if you're only getting your news from a closed-shop lefty organisation such as the ABC, you're doomed to be a lefty forever - and that's no way to be

A lefty publicly funded  organisation that has somehow survived 90 years of attacks from Govs of all stripes.

Do tell:rolleyes:

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, ShortForBob said:

A lefty publicly funded  organisation that has somehow survived 90 years of attacks from Govs of all stripes.

Do tell:rolleyes:

Tell me again how they have been performing to their charter, to provide a balanced view ? Hard to believe they weren't shut down years ago - must be Sicktorian based

Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Dark Cloud said:

Tell me again how they have been performing to their charter, to provide a balanced view ? Hard to believe they weren't shut down years ago - must be Sicktorian based

If by "a balanced view" you mean not cherry picking sound bites and skewing reports from either side, I think they do a pretty good job. But of course you wont agree.

they haven't been abolished simply because they are still Australia's most trusted news service and the humble populace, even those that don't use it for anything other than listening to the cricket, wouldn't allow it. So suck it up.

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, ShortForBob said:

If by "a balanced view" you mean not cherry picking sound bites and skewing reports from either side, I think they do a pretty good job. But of course you wont agree.

they haven't been abolished simply because they are still Australia's most trusted news service and the humble populace, even those that don't use it for anything other than listening to the cricket, wouldn't allow it. So suck it up.

La La land , as suggested earlier by another poster, is where you live. Try to get out more (hard in the lockdown capital of the world I know)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Get vaccinated

Vaccination seems to be preventing hospitalisations

Victoria has now recorded well over 25,000 cases in this third COVID wave.

When the state reported it had clicked over that number yesterday, it had just recorded 1,420 new infections. There were 525 people hospitalised with COVID-19, including 94 in intensive care and 53 people on a ventilator.

Tragically, 68 people had died, a number which has risen again today to 70.

When New South Wales hit 25,000 cases in early September, the picture was a little different.

"They had nearly twice as many people in hospital, so 979 in hospital, 160 in ICU, and ... 119 people had died," Melbourne University associate professor and public health expert Matt Hopcraft said.

Dr Hopcraft, who is also the chief executive of the Australian Dental Association's Victorian branch, has compared the data from both states, and there is one key difference at this 25,000 point — vaccination rates.

About 54 per cent of Victorians aged 16 and over have now had both doses of a vaccine. Back in early September, New South Wales was sitting at about 40 per cent for the same cohort.

"It seems like vaccination is one of the things that's potentially reducing that impact in terms of the serious outcomes for people," Dr Hopcraft told ABC Radio Melbourne.

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, ShortForBob said:

trying to prove a negative again?

Curfew has a measurable effect on traffic movement after 9pm. 

Imagine that.

Making movement after 9pm illegal, reduced movement after 9pm.

No attempt to show any impact on the spread of covid? Or is this one of those ones where it is self evident to believers?

(Shhh, don't tell anyone, but I broke that law. Neither the dog nor I got covid! That's n=2.)

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Dark Cloud said:

Tell me again how they have been performing to their charter, to provide a balanced view ? Hard to believe they weren't shut down years ago - must be Sicktorian based

They don't provide a balanced view?

According to who? You?

You couldn't be more funny!!!!

Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, Se7en said:

Imagine that.

Making movement after 9pm illegal, reduced movement after 9pm.

No attempt to show any impact on the spread of covid? Or is this one of those ones where it is self evident to believers?

(Shhh, don't tell anyone, but I broke that law. Neither the dog nor I got covid! That's n=2.)

Prove the disconnect between movement of people and movement covid.

Go on.

 

 

And of course you broke the law, because everyone can justify their illegal behaviour.

Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, Se7en said:
7 hours ago, ShortForBob said:

trying to prove a negative again?

Curfew has a measurable effect on traffic movement after 9pm. 

Imagine that.

Making movement after 9pm illegal, reduced movement after 9pm.

No attempt to show any impact on the spread of covid? Or is this one of those ones where it is self evident to believers?

(Shhh, don't tell anyone, but I broke that law. Neither the dog nor I got covid! That's n=2.)

You're a naughty naughty boy!

I first broke a curfew in '89. Three of us met ap at 04:00 for the 40 minute drive to the surf and all wound our watches forward an hour. We arrived at the checkpoint and the cop was cranky. We all showed him our watches and said it's 6, the curfew's finished. He tapped his watch a few times, put it to his ear (it was digital) and let us through.

Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, ShortForBob said:

I missed Curfew in East Berlin by 5 minutes. The guards thought us running like hell toward the gate was hilarious.

(They let us through anyway)

Bullshit Button Bs GIF - Bullshit Button Bullshit Bs GIFs

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Dark Cloud said:

Only anti vaxxers get their 'news' from FB - I have disowned (or avoided anyway) 2 friends who are of the 5G/Bill Gates/microchip brigade - if you're only getting your news from a closed-shop lefty organisation such as the ABC, you're doomed to be a lefty forever - and that's no way to be

I get my news from Facebook.

 

I "follow" ABC news there.

Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, 00seven said:

Bullshit Button Bs GIF - Bullshit Button Bullshit Bs GIFs

Jealous? Just because I've had small adventures and you're biggest thrill has been picking at mosquito bites in a hut in Indonesia. 

We got locked in the Crypt in Wurtzburg Catherdral too. That was fun. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, ShortForBob said:

you realise that neither you or DK have addressed the issue of the federal government abandoning Australians to an unprecedentedly  over stretched Hospital system. 

 

 

 

 

k

Are you going to acknowledge that 18 months into a pandemic that at least 3 state leaders have failed to prepare their hospital systems for the inevitable. The most vocal of the beggers is naturally one the 3 and she is more interested in getting an ego boost from sports events than public health. 

Given that Anna is happy to cripple the Queensland tourism econony, surely she can afford to spend money on hopitals.

 

But you can only find fault in Liberal leaders and applaud Labor. You are just as bad as Kate. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, The Dark Knight said:

Are you going to acknowledge that 18 months into a pandemic that at least 3 state leaders have failed to prepare their hospital systems for the inevitable. The most vocal of the beggers is naturally one the 3 and she is more interested in getting an ego boost from sports events than public health. 

Given that Anna is happy to cripple the Queensland tourism econony, surely she can afford to spend money on hopitals.

 

But you can only find fault in Liberal leaders and applaud Labor. You are just as bad as Kate. 

So if the actions of the feds is going to change the present, funded situation, the feds shouldn't offer compensation for the new, unfunded situation?

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, The Dark Knight said:

Are you going to acknowledge that 18 months into a pandemic that at least 3 state leaders have failed to prepare their hospital systems for the inevitable. The most vocal of the beggers is naturally one the 3 and she is more interested in getting an ego boost from sports events than public health. 

Given that Anna is happy to cripple the Queensland tourism econony, surely she can afford to spend money on hopitals.

 

But you can only find fault in Liberal leaders and applaud Labor. You are just as bad as Kate. 

Have I ever ever criticised the Premiers of Tasmania or South Australia?

Ever? 

Look in the mirror mate. 

All 8 Premiers and chief ministers have appealed to Hunt for more hospital funding. You seriously think the States and Terrotories can magically produce the funds for aid to households, aid to business, PPE, thousands of extra hospital beds and specialised equipment, mental health services and a constantly refeshed and traind corp or 2 of doctors, nurses, extra trained cleaners, ambo's etc, ..like triple or quadruple their health budgets in a year or two?

You're a fucking moron.

BTW..that money actually belongs to the people of Australia not the Federal government.

Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, ShortForBob said:

Have I ever ever criticised the Premiers of Tasmania or South Australia?

Ever? 

Look in the mirror mate. 

All 8 Premiers and chief ministers have appealed to Hunt for more hospital funding. You seriously think the States and Terrotories can magically produce the funds for aid to households, aid to business, PPE, thousands of extra hospital beds and specialised equipment, mental health services and a constantly refeshed and traind corp or 2 of doctors, nurses, extra trained cleaners, ambo's etc, ..like triple or quadruple their health budgets in a year or two?

You're a fucking moron.

BTW..that money actually belongs to the people of Australia not the Federal government.

VIC borrowed heaps to pay for their more prepared health system.

Of course, that just gives darky nighty an excuse to call them poor economic managers.

Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Ease the sheet. said:

VIC borrowed heaps to pay for their more prepared health system.

Of course, that just gives darky nighty an excuse to call them poor economic managers.

I see nothing wrong with having a world class hospital system. That is going to cost money, but it is worth it. It's certainly way better than paying world class pricing and ending up with a third rate system like they have in Sweden.

I don't know of examples where the Vic gov have wasted money on the hospital system. We had an excellent experience of the public system at the RWH when my daughter was born. 

Fucksticks like you and Meli just assume that because I and some others are more in favour of Liberal, that we must be extreme right and all that entails. You two on the other hand are just as bad as Trump supporters. Australia would be fucked if we got leaders as far left and stupid as you two.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ShortForBob said:

Have I ever ever criticised the Premiers of Tasmania or South Australia?

Ever? 

Look in the mirror mate. 

All 8 Premiers and chief ministers have appealed to Hunt for more hospital funding. You seriously think the States and Terrotories can magically produce the funds for aid to households, aid to business, PPE, thousands of extra hospital beds and specialised equipment, mental health services and a constantly refeshed and traind corp or 2 of doctors, nurses, extra trained cleaners, ambo's etc, ..like triple or quadruple their health budgets in a year or two?

You're a fucking moron.

BTW..that money actually belongs to the people of Australia not the Federal government.

What money? We are running a massive deficit, so the money has to come from borrowings. At least by putting the onus on the states, those that neglected their hospital systems, like QLD, will have to borrow proportionally more. Anyway, it's too late now, they should have been preparing for the past 18 month and not living in a fantasy land thinking they can avoid Covid for ever.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-03/states-and-territories-budgets-net-debt/12941168

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, ShortForBob said:

 

Annoying and irresponsible at the latter are, we don't allow people to go untreated in Australia.

 

Do you mean everyone seeking treatment is treated? Fine. Here too, unless the beds are all full of covidiots and you die of a treatable heart condition waiting for a medevac flight to another state. 

Or do you mean you require everyone to seek medical attention?  How is that enforced?  

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ShortForBob said:

Have I ever ever criticised the Premiers of Tasmania or South Australia?

Ever? 

Look in the mirror mate. 

All 8 Premiers and chief ministers have appealed to Hunt for more hospital funding. You seriously think the States and Terrotories can magically produce the funds for aid to households, aid to business, PPE, thousands of extra hospital beds and specialised equipment, mental health services and a constantly refeshed and traind corp or 2 of doctors, nurses, extra trained cleaners, ambo's etc, ..like triple or quadruple their health budgets in a year or two?

You're a fucking moron.

BTW..that money actually belongs to the people of Australia not the Federal government.

Raise taxes. How do you think we are eventually going to pay for all the free vaccines and covid hospital bills? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, The Dark Knight said:

QLD & WA have hospital systems that are strained without Covid. It's their fault.

This reminds me of a friend. His son who works for him would piss his salary up the wall and daddy would have to bail him out at rent time. I guess you will accuse me of lying again and making up this story.

Liar - you don't have any friends

:o:P:D

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, NeedAClew said:

Raise taxes. How do you think we are eventually going to pay for all the free vaccines and covid hospital bills? 

States in Australia don't raise income tax or goods and service tax. Their income comes from the Commonwealth plus payroll tax and things like stamp duty and fees and fines.

Payroll tax  (a tax on employers per employee) and other sources, will be massively reduced because of Covid and lockdowns.

Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Ease the sheet. said:

Prove the disconnect between movement of people and movement covid.

Go on.

 

 

And of course you broke the law, because everyone can justify their illegal behaviour.

Easy.

Victoria had a curfew, and had a higher transmission rate of covid resulting in a higher peak case number.

NSW didn't have a curfew, had a lower transmission rate and lower peak case number.

Difference is clearly due to movement being compressed into 12 hours in Vic vs spread over 24 hours in NSW. Hence people were brought into closer proximity in Vic. Therefore curfews increase covid transmission.

(Yes, I know that you were just trying to make me prove a negative)

Oh - I didn't try to justify my illegal behaviour, merely stated that it happened. So your snarky comment is miss aimed.

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, The Dark Knight said:

I see nothing wrong with having a world class hospital system. That is going to cost money, but it is worth it. It's certainly way better than paying world class pricing and ending up with a third rate system like they have in Sweden.

I don't know of examples where the Vic gov have wasted money on the hospital system. We had an excellent experience of the public system at the RWH when my daughter was born. 

Fucksticks like you and Meli just assume that because I and some others are more in favour of Liberal, that we must be extreme right and all that entails. You two on the other hand are just as bad as Trump supporters. Australia would be fucked if we got leaders as far left and stupid as you two.

At least you wouldn't have time to post your bullshit here. You'd be working in the mines, 18 hours a day.

Keeping the lefty leaders in Cristal and Mercedes. And shoes. Meli needs more shoes!

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Se7en said:

Easy.

Victoria had a curfew, and had a higher transmission rate of covid resulting in a higher peak case number.

NSW didn't have a curfew, had a lower transmission rate and lower peak case number.

Difference is clearly due to movement being compressed into 12 hours in Vic vs spread over 24 hours in NSW. Hence people were brought into closer proximity in Vic. Therefore curfews increase covid transmission.

(Yes, I know that you were just trying to make me prove a negative)

Oh - I didn't try to justify my illegal behaviour, merely stated that it happened. So your snarky comment is miss aimed.

Fail and fail.

Prove the disconnect between movement of people and movement of covid.

And of course you tried to justify your illegal behaviour. Like every other idiot.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Ease the sheet. said:

And of course you tried to justify your illegal behaviour. Like every other idiot.

I've never before met someone who has never broken any law. Unless you are including yourself in the category every other idiot?

For some reason I had thought you were better than that response. Oh well.

Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, Se7en said:

I've never before met someone who has never broken any law. Unless you are including yourself in the category every other idiot?

For some reason I had thought you were better than that response. Oh well.

Yeah good luck with that.

Student's T test... observed vs expected. Snedecor & Cochran.

Even if Meli googles that, she still won't understand it.

FKT

Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Yeah good luck with that.

Student's T test... observed vs expected. Snedecor & Cochran.

Even if Meli googles that, she still won't understand it.

FKT

Confession - I did 3 years of stats at uni, and I don't remember ever hearing a t-test referred to as Student's T test. So I had to google it as well.

I contemplated going down the regression analysis or MFA path in response to Ease, but decided against because;

 - ultimately you just end up at a point where you have a correlation which has a probability of being due to causation, so while it's proof, it's not "PROOF!"

 - I was clearly taking the piss anyway, and just couldn't be bothered. 

It just amused me to respond to another demand to prove a negative. I assumed that Ease was taking the piss in asking for a negative to be proven, so I responded in kind. Seems I was mistaken.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, The Dark Knight said:

Dam, you caught me out. An acquaintance...

Glad you picked up the intended humor in my response.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Se7en said:

I've never before met someone who has never broken any law. Unless you are including yourself in the category every other idiot?

For some reason I had thought you were better than that response. Oh well.

 

You put other poeple at risk.

I'm not concerned about your thoughts towards me.

Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, Se7en said:

Confession - I did 3 years of stats at uni, and I don't remember ever hearing a t-test referred to as Student's T test. So I had to google it as well.

I contemplated going down the regression analysis or MFA path in response to Ease, but decided against because;

 - ultimately you just end up at a point where you have a correlation which has a probability of being due to causation, so while it's proof, it's not "PROOF!"

 - I was clearly taking the piss anyway, and just couldn't be bothered. 

It just amused me to respond to another demand to prove a negative. I assumed that Ease was taking the piss in asking for a negative to be proven, so I responded in kind. Seems I was mistaken.

Cool story bro.

 

So you can't prove a disconnect between the movement of people and the movement of covid?

 

I mean, I'm only asking you to support your statements regarding the curfew.....

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Ease the sheet. said:

You put other poeple at risk.

Assertion without any attempt to support it.

We can play "yeah you did", "no, I didn't" all night and you will still be wrong.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Ease the sheet. said:

So you can't prove a disconnect between the movement of people and the movement of covid?

 

I mean, I'm only asking you to support your statements regarding the curfew.....

Your challenge was

"Prove the disconnect between movement of people and movement covid."

Which is asking to prove a negative. 

What level of proof would you accept? Statistical at 95 or 99% confidence levels? Or will you insist on mathematical certainty? The latter is impossible for any sufficiently complex system - ie anything in biology.

BTW - I'd argue that it is up to the people supporting curfews to prove that curfews reduce the transmission of Covid 19, rather than it being up to me to prove the negative. But from what I've seen here, no one supporting curfews has the knowledge or ability to even attempt the analysis needed. So no surprise that you fall back on demanding someone else prove a negative.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Se7en said:

I contemplated going down the regression analysis or MFA path in response to Ease, but decided against because;

 - ultimately you just end up at a point where you have a correlation which has a probability of being due to causation, so while it's proof, it's not "PROOF!"

Yeah but in this case -

"Tighter lockdown/curfew reduces incidence/spread of COVID" is how to frame the test.

The answer is clearly NO.

Correlation never can be assumed to equal causation but the reverse isn't true. No correlation can be assumed to equal no causation.

Therefore curfews don't work.

But we knew that and I only use the curfew thing because both Meli and ETS were taking great delight in beating up NSW over not doing what Dan told them to do.

Now they want to talk about anything else which is kind of amusing because it demonstrates that they're both political ideologues uninterested in actual outcomes, only supporting 'their side'.

Which, in a pandemic, I find both pathetic and sad.

Victoria is doing worse than NSW WRT case increases/day. I have NFI why but I'm also not rushing to put shit on Dan for it - unlike the reverse situation a month or so back. I hope the Vic infection rate drops soon, and fast.

FKT

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Se7en said:

Oh - I didn't try to justify my illegal behaviour, merely stated that it happened. So your snarky comment is miss aimed.

I wonder if Dan will try to justify his illegal behaviour? Easy and Meli will just overlook it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Se7en said:

Assertion without any attempt to support it.

We can play "yeah you did", "no, I didn't" all night and you will still be wrong.

I'm quite happy to follow an expert on these matters.

When a Cho says those that don't follow the health orders are putting others at risk, I have to agree.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Se7en said:

Your challenge was

"Prove the disconnect between movement of people and movement covid."

Which is asking to prove a negative. 

What level of proof would you accept? Statistical at 95 or 99% confidence levels? Or will you insist on mathematical certainty? The latter is impossible for any sufficiently complex system - ie anything in biology.

BTW - I'd argue that it is up to the people supporting curfews to prove that curfews reduce the transmission of Covid 19, rather than it being up to me to prove the negative. But from what I've seen here, no one supporting curfews has the knowledge or ability to even attempt the analysis needed. So no surprise that you fall back on demanding someone else prove a negative.

The virus replicates in a host, limit the movement of the host, you limit the movement of the virus.

It's not fucking rocket surgery.

It's the basis of infection control.

 

I like how you post about the impossibility of knowing with certainty in such a complex system, in explaining that curfews don't work.

Dick meet shoe....

Of course, the icing on the stupid cake is FKT agreeing with you.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/7/2021 at 5:09 PM, ShortForBob said:

Yes I do, but It's not my fault you prefer to be ignorant and It's my job to help you overcome your disabilities and come into the light. :P

Congratulations to you and all Victorians on your record today. Those hard lockdowns really work.

Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, Ease the sheet. said:

Dan's been fined.

Good stuff.

I will not vote for him in the next state election.

I bet you do.

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Ease the sheet. said:

At least you wouldn't have time to post your bullshit here. You'd be working in the mines, 18 hours a day.

Keeping the lefty leaders in Cristal and Mercedes. And shoes. Meli needs more shoes!

That's a bit sexist.

Actually I do need shoes. My favourite shoe shop being a victim of Covid, I havent bought any new shoes for two years! imagine.

Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, Ease the sheet. said:

How much?

I'll be happy to photograph my ballot paper and email it to you for the right price.

Fack me, you must be so bored in your Melbourne lock down.

Link to post
Share on other sites