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17 minutes ago, ShortForBob said:

Smaller population.

So should folks from Melbourne get tested to travel to Mildura?

Or - given I'm a Tasmanian again, and Tas has the biggest population divide (north vs South) of any state, should I need to get tested if I want to pop in and see how FKT's junk rig works?

Newcastle to Woolongong?

Townsville to cairns?

Byron bay to Bundaberg?

Your lines seem rather arbitrary if we all consider ourselves Australians.

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The people who aren't on the news, the nurses, drs, police etc are fucking legends. The professionals deserve as much thanks as we can muster. And that starts with us helping them and gettin

Had our second AZ jab on Thursday. Rolled up at 7am to the doctors, people waiting in line out the front and a receptionist popping in and out like a yoyo keeping tabs on the number of people.  

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34 minutes ago, Ease the sheet. said:

But it informs others as to what settings are appropriate regarding isolation/quarantine and future hospital needs.

I mean you could totally stop testing. Then we would have no cases!

So why not test everyone? Or a random selection of people?

Sounds to me like you are after population statistics - and testing a random sample is the way to get that.

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15 minutes ago, 00seven said:

Go ahead Chicken Little, explain. Provide appropriate links from recognised bodies to support your explanation.

The floor is yours.

I don't need to.

All virus infect, incubate and transmit. they have a period when you are asymptomatic and not infectious, followed by an infectious period where you may or may not be symptomatic, followed by a recovery period where you may or may not be infectious.

These stages vary in longevity

It isn't rocket science.:rolleyes:

Any parent should know this.

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12 minutes ago, Se7en said:

So should folks from Melbourne get tested to travel to Mildura?

Or - given I'm a Tasmanian again, and Tas has the biggest population divide (north vs South) of any state, should I need to get tested if I want to pop in and see how FKT's junk rig works?

Newcastle to Woolongong?

Townsville to cairns?

Byron bay to Bundaberg?

Your lines seem rather arbitrary if we all consider ourselves Australians.

Of course they are arbitrary. Unless you'd like to employ an enormous cohort of public servants to assess the risk of every traveler.

One size does not fit all, but when some idiots can't seem to understand the basics of infection and/or have the responsibility to put their own woes, exceptionalism and grizzles aside for the common good, what else do we have?

You want to visit FKT? take a RAT. I do and so do my kids if visiting people we are not in regular contact with.

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19 minutes ago, Se7en said:

So should folks from Melbourne get tested to travel to Mildura?

Or - given I'm a Tasmanian again, and Tas has the biggest population divide (north vs South) of any state, should I need to get tested if I want to pop in and see how FKT's junk rig works?

Newcastle to Woolongong?

Townsville to cairns?

Byron bay to Bundaberg?

Your lines seem rather arbitrary if we all consider ourselves Australians.

Well, take that up with those that drew the borders and wrote the constitution.

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16 minutes ago, ShortForBob said:

I don't need to.

All virus infect, incubate and transmit. they have a period when you are asymptomatic and not infectious, followed by an infectious period where you may or may not be symptomatic, followed by a recovery period where you may or may not be infectious.

These stages vary in longevity

It isn't rocket science.:rolleyes:

Any parent should know this.

Factor in that the tests don't measure infections,they measure viral material in the nose and throat.

Infections are assumed.....

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2 minutes ago, Ease the sheet. said:

Well, take that up with those that drew the borders and wrote the constitution.

You are quite correct - we are a federation of states. An anachronism, which causes us more pain than it is worth. But I have no solution as to how to unscramble that egg.

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2 minutes ago, Ease the sheet. said:

That's what's done in the UK.

Of course, the UK doesn't have states....

No - they have counties.

Australia could be much more effictively governed if we just had federal and council levels of government.

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2 minutes ago, Se7en said:

Then why have them?

Ease just answered that.

As it is, NSW can't chase down infected people who've nipped over the border without going through Victorian channels by which time, they've probably infected a dozen victorians and gone to SA. We've seen this over and over.

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2 minutes ago, Ease the sheet. said:

So you want to abolish the states?

Well, yes. I've been in favour of that for quite some time. We are overgoverned in Australia.

But, it has always been one of those "If it aint too badly broke, don't fix it" kind of things.

If Claifornia's 60 million people can work with 2 levels of government, our 25 million probably could.

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Just now, Se7en said:

Well, yes. I've been in favour of that for quite some time. We are overgoverned in Australia.

But, it has always been one of those "If it aint too badly broke, don't fix it" kind of things.

If Claifornia's 60 million people can work with 2 levels of government, our 25 million probably could.

I used to agree.

Covid has given me a newfound appreciation of the states and of the constitution.

 

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2 minutes ago, ShortForBob said:

Ease just answered that.

No he didn't. He just pointed out the basics of our federation of states. He did not provide any argument as to why it is a good thing, or why we should fall back on our xenophobic state boundaries when dealing with a pandemic.

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2 minutes ago, Ease the sheet. said:

Because councils implementing lockdowns and travel restrictions makes so much more sense....

Make a point.

Why doesn't managing this virus work at a LGA level?

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4 minutes ago, Se7en said:

Make a point.

Why doesn't managing this virus work at a LGA level?

Because a smaller entity doesn't have the money to fund compliance by law enforcement. Then there's the same issue with health. No economy of scale, let alone a big enough income stream.

 

Just listen to the West Australians screaming.......

 

Seriously, NSW tried that approach, against health orders. Either the burdens get shared of those suffering the most will say "fuck off" and not be compliant.

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6 minutes ago, Se7en said:

Make a point.

Why doesn't managing this virus work at a LGA level?

Because LGA's are full of incompetent career people  that guard their own turf, destroy their own turf and move on to fuck someone else over, starve weaker internal departments of staff and funding, make meetings an artform and mismanage budgets.

The arms think they are connected to their ears.

And what Ease said.

Have I covered it?

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2 minutes ago, Ease the sheet. said:

I used to agree.

Covid has given me a newfound appreciation of the states and of the constitution.

 

And that is a topic I could happily discuss with you over a meal and several libations.

I fall on the side of thinking than empowered local councils - and managing this virus on that basis - could have been more effective than states. Shepparton has much different issues and requirements than Port Melbourne. But Vic and NSW has very similar challenges. I think an approach that looked at Dubbo an Shep, an Eden and Sale vs Brighton and Glebe might have been more effective than Vic vs NSW.

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2 minutes ago, Se7en said:

And that is a topic I could happily discuss with you over a meal and several libations.

I fall on the side of thinking than empowered local councils - and managing this virus on that basis - could have been more effective than states. Shepparton has much different issues and requirements than Port Melbourne. But Vic and NSW has very similar challenges. I think an approach that looked at Dubbo an Shep, an Eden and Sale vs Brighton and Glebe might have been more effective than Vic vs NSW.

I'd happily have some nurse stick a cotton swab down my throat in exchange for some good Tasmanian Pinot......

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3 minutes ago, Ease the sheet. said:

Because a smaller entity doesn't have the money to fund compliance by law enforcement. Then there's the same issue with health. No economy of scale, let alone a big enough income stream.

Oh - I agree completely. IF they are not given the revenue.

But if they had control of the money, then could they do a better job? If they had the right level of peopl and the right level of funding - which would have to be in place if you abolished the states?

I think that perhaps they could.

And given how many municipal boundaries would need to be managed, I'd hope that there were the resources to manage those boundary cases efficiently and humanely.

(then again, I view libertarians and anarchists philisophically almost the same. So perhaps I have too much faith in human nature on a small scale)

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4 minutes ago, Se7en said:

And that is a topic I could happily discuss with you over a meal and several libations.

I fall on the side of thinking than empowered local councils - and managing this virus on that basis - could have been more effective than states. Shepparton has much different issues and requirements than Port Melbourne. But Vic and NSW has very similar challenges. I think an approach that looked at Dubbo an Shep, an Eden and Sale vs Brighton and Glebe might have been more effective than Vic vs NSW.

Abolishing the states and having blg local councils of maybe 500k was something I used to like.

But being from a fucking big city in a fucking big state skews one's thinking....

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Just now, Ease the sheet. said:

I'd happily have some nurse stick a cotton swab down my throat in exchange for some good Tasmanian Pinot......

I grew up within 10kms of heemskerk, pipers brook and 9th Island. And I have something over 1k bottles of wine in cellars across Tas and Vic. Whilst my tase runs to more robust reds, enough of that watery shit has snuck in over the years that I'm sure I could spare enough to distract you from my right wing leanings.

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3 minutes ago, Se7en said:

Oh - I agree completely. IF they are not given the revenue.

But if they had control of the money, then could they do a better job? If they had the right level of peopl and the right level of funding - which would have to be in place if you abolished the states?

I think that perhaps they could.

And given how many municipal boundaries would need to be managed, I'd hope that there were the resources to manage those boundary cases efficiently and humanely.

(then again, I view libertarians and anarchists philisophically almost the same. So perhaps I have too much faith in human nature on a small scale)

There some idealism to your ideas.

Pessimism is your friend.....

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12 minutes ago, ShortForBob said:

Because LGA's all levels of government are full of incompetent career people 

Have I covered it?

Well, yes. And?

If you are going to be governed by an incompetant fuckwit, why not one who cares about his local community and knows he is going to face them over his morning coffee?

Instant and real time accountability has to be better than what we have here.

"I know where you live" is both an endorsement and a threat.

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2 minutes ago, Se7en said:

I grew up within 10kms of heemskerk, pipers brook and 9th Island. And I have something over 1k bottles of wine in cellars across Tas and Vic. Whilst my tase runs to more robust reds, enough of that watery shit has snuck in over the years that I'm sure I could spare enough to distract you from my right wing leanings.

Commercial swill.

 

Prefer the stuff from South of Hobart.

 

As I age, my tastes have moved from those robust reds. There's even room for some whites in my smaller cellar.

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6 minutes ago, Se7en said:

Well, yes. And?

If you are going to be governed by an incompetant fuckwit, why not one who cares about his local community and knows he is going to face them over his morning coffee?

Instant and real time accountability has to be better than what we have here.

"I know where you live" is both an endorsement and a threat.

Because threatening little Hitler with his own private henchmen always works out well.......

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Ease the sheet. said:

Commercial swill.

 

Prefer the stuff from South of Hobart.

 

As I age, my tastes have moved from those robust reds. There's even room for some whites in my smaller cellar.

:D

Ooh that's harsh. But I don't know enough about southern vineyards to even have an opinion.

I'm clearly not old enough to have moved past a rare steak and a Barossa shiraz. But I have a few cases of Reisling (about half with botytis though), and some bubbles growing old. Again, I don't know enough about other whites to know if there is any point cellaring them?

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5 minutes ago, Ease the sheet. said:

Because threatening little Hitler with his own private henchmen always works out well.......

Don't just take the negative. It's not just the threat, but rather the possibility of improving the community you actually live in. Back self interest - at least you know it's trying.

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13 minutes ago, Se7en said:

:D

Ooh that's harsh. But I don't know enough about southern vineyards to even have an opinion.

I'm clearly not old enough to have moved past a rare steak and a Barossa shiraz. But I have a few cases of Reisling (about half with botytis though), and some bubbles growing old. Again, I don't know enough about other whites to know if there is any point cellaring them?

Rare steak and barrossa Shiraz, a match made in heaven.

Botrytis Reisling are something special, much better than Botrytis Semillon. Both age well.

Good Chardonnay, especially cold climate can wait 10 years. Remember champagne usually has a high percentage of Chardonnay.

 

Good Hunter Valley Semillon can do 25.

I once found some Lindemans cheap Chardonnay in my cellar, $5 a bottle. After 7 years it was actually good!

 

There's a few wine threads in GA. A regular poster living in Poland has a friend with an old French collection. @Ed Lada

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1 hour ago, Se7en said:

Well, yes. And?

If you are going to be governed by an incompetant fuckwit, why not one who cares about his local community and knows he is going to face them over his morning coffee?

Instant and real time accountability has to be better than what we have here.

"I know where you live" is both an endorsement and a threat.

That's not how LGA's work.

I've worked at all three levels of Gov in one capacity or another.

The waste and incompetence  and even corruption of Local govermnents is beyond the pale. Unlike Fed and state, elected councilors do not have oversight of the day to day running of operations.

As for councilors themselves, they are not really held accountable either.

There are exceptions (a good friend of mine was the lord mayoress of Brighton Council) but.

They bully and manipulate the administrative arm, throw their weight around for the most petty matters for the sake of a single local vote. (we had one councilor representing a voter about a racing form guide) 

More susceptible to influence from vested interests. 

Until LGA's can have the same scrutiny as bigger government bodies, they'll never be efficient. 

 

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3 minutes ago, ShortForBob said:

Until LGA's can have the same scrutiny as bigger government bodies, they'll never be efficient. 

 

As normal, the discussion has passed you by.

We are not discussing councils as are currently run, but rather what they could be with a decent budget and responsibility. You would not have the same level of incompetance as you do today.

(They would still be incompetant, but at a much higher level)

My spelling goes to shit when I'm drunk...

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NSW The bully state.

First they steam ahead, out of step with other states re mandates for the unvacinated and other measured steps to reopen creating surges in their covid numbers and totally overwhelming their testing facilities. Then they have the gall to slam other states that won't let their infected population in without a test.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-12-28/qld-coronavirus-covid-testing-delays-frustrated-travellers/100725486

Qld and other states have every right to take steps to slow the spread. It's their economy.

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1 minute ago, ShortForBob said:

NSW The bully state.

First they steam ahead, out of step with other states re mandates for the unvacinated and other measured steps to reopen creating surges in their covid numbers and totally overwhelming their testing facilities. Then they have the gall to slam other states that won't let their infected population in without a test.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-12-28/qld-coronavirus-covid-testing-delays-frustrated-travellers/100725486

Qld and other states have every right to take steps to slow the spread. It's their economy.

Bumper sticker seen in eastern Sydney

"NSW, where it's always someone else's fault".

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12 hours ago, ShortForBob said:

Do you have one? 

Other than objecting to testing making you feel "racially profiled":rolleyes:

The point is that the requirement for excessive testing is reducing the effectiveness of testing due to:

 1. People who really need tests, like those with symptoms or entering high risk areas, face long delays for tests and results

 2. People who should get tested aren't because of the hassle

 3. Labs are being overloaded with tests, resulting in numerous errors in results

If the testing mandates are based on "health advice", then there's a serious breakdown between the advice and the planning and implementing of sufficient capability to implement the advice.

If you can't hold a discussion without resorting to personal insults then there's not much point in continuing the discussion.

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12 hours ago, ShortForBob said:

Smaller population.

Really. After 2 years we have to explain? 

We? Sorry your highness.

12 hours ago, ShortForBob said:

Your elk seems to have been sticking their heads up their arses and have little understanding STILL about how these virus infect, develop and transmit.

2 years of Google has clearly made you an expert in epidemiology, virology, immunology and public health policy. On the other hand, there are people who live in the real world and deal with things are they actually are.

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28 minutes ago, RobG said:

The point is that the requirement for excessive testing is reducing the effectiveness of testing due to:

 1. People who really need tests, like those with symptoms or entering high risk areas, face long delays for tests and results

 2. People who should get tested aren't because of the hassle

 3. Labs are being overloaded with tests, resulting in numerous errors in results

If the testing mandates are based on "health advice", then there's a serious breakdown between the advice and the planning and implementing of sufficient capability to implement the advice.

If you can't hold a discussion without resorting to personal insults then there's not much point in continuing the discussion.

The need for data and the inability to get that data in a timely fashion are 2 separate things.

Either the data is important or its not. If it is, get it, if it's not why test?

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19 minutes ago, RobG said:

We? Sorry your highness.

2 years of Google has clearly made you an expert in epidemiology, virology, immunology and public health policy. On the other hand, there are people who live in the real world and deal with things are they actually are.

Well, you seem to be advocating for limiting testing, ie ignoring the real world.

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As this thing spreads testing is becoming academic, hospital admissions, ICU admissions and deaths become the true accurate data.

We were always going to reach a testing threshold, where it became such a PITA people just got on with an assumption they had covid and acted appropriately, or inappropriately as they desired.

The same story played out across the globe in the last two years, numbers from testing were much lower that the total Covid burden.

As for the states, NSW and Queensland both stand to gain political benefit from kicking each other, the lack of actual logic behind tourism testing is just pushed to the background.

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2 minutes ago, olaf hart said:

As this thing spreads testing is becoming academic, hospital admissions, ICU admissions and deaths become the true accurate data.

We were always going to reach a testing threshold, where it became such a PITA people just got on with an assumption they had covid and acted appropriately, or inappropriately as they desired.

The same story played out across the globe in the last two years, numbers from testing were much lower that the total Covid burden.

As for the states, NSW and Queensland both stand to gain political benefit from kicking each other, the lack of actual logic behind tourism testing is just pushed to the background.

There was chatter amongst the lockdown protesters that once community spread was well established, lockdowns would become irrelevant.

It's the same logic.

Once the virus is everywhere, everything done to "control" it is superfluous.

 

Very third world.....

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"There are no Federally declared hotspots."

That is because the Feds and NSW have given up, Death Rattle Hazzard now blaming others for the predicament they find themselves in.

"Testing just creates more cases, you want to reduce case numbers then stop testing, no more testing." (Trump July 2020)

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The world would have been a lot better off if early on in this mess we put some of our research effort into making a highly infectious, low virulence version of the virus and just let it run, a sort of cowpox solution..

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Queenslands new number plate slogan "Not our problem"

Our testing stations are overwhelmed with travellers getting their 5 day test, so she drops the requirement, because she admits that she never thought about the testing capacity needed when she implemented the cross border rules. 

As for the other states trying to deal with increased testing requirements because of Annas rules, "Not our problem".

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-12-28/qld-coronavirus-covid-testing-cancelled-pcr/100728074

The rules perhaps initially made sense when QLD was having donut days, but with 1158 cases today, just stupid.

 

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1 minute ago, Frakka said:

That is because the Feds and NSW have given up, Death Rattle Hazzard now blaming others for the predicament they find themselves in.

"Testing just creates more cases, you want to reduce case numbers then stop testing, no more testing." (Trump July 2020)

There is no way WA, Tas and QLD can hide this time, they might delay it and possibly slow the spread, but eventually we will all get this version of the virus

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3 minutes ago, Frakka said:

That is because the Feds and NSW have given up, Death Rattle Hazzard now blaming others for the predicament they find themselves in.

 

Hazzard is blaming Anna for creating an unnecessary extra load on NSW's testing capacity. 

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3 minutes ago, olaf hart said:

There is no way WA, Tas and QLD can hide this time, they might delay it and possibly slow the spread, but eventually we will all get this version of the virus

Too true Olaf, but with the hindsight of the eastern experience we can strive to face the inevitable on our own terms. 

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Assume everyone else has COVID.  

Assume you have covid.

Put a good fucking mask on and keep it on when indoors not in your dwelling. In your dwelling, if you insist on letting non residents in, wear a mask. Ask them to put one on before entering. If they won't, relate to them outside in your mask.

Put mask on outdoors in throngs, congested urban sidewalks, trails with trailhog groups you have to pass or get stuck downstream of.  

Wash hands a lot. Especially after fiddling with your mask.

Put used mask in a designated isolated spot for washing if that kind or to let covid croak whatever over a day or so.  We reuse n95s every few days.  Always assume the front is covered with plutonium/covid same diff. 

Worked for me going on 2 years now except for blissful month of May-June.

Really easier than trying to parse latest guidance. 

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3 hours ago, RobG said:

The point is that the requirement for excessive testing is reducing the effectiveness of testing due to:

 1. People who really need tests, like those with symptoms or entering high risk areas, face long delays for tests and results

 2. People who should get tested aren't because of the hassle

 3. Labs are being overloaded with tests, resulting in numerous errors in results

If the testing mandates are based on "health advice", then there's a serious breakdown between the advice and the planning and implementing of sufficient capability to implement the advice.

If you can't hold a discussion without resorting to personal insults then there's not much point in continuing the discussion.

Personal insults?

Just a little sarcasm my dear.

This is sailing anarchy. 

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1 hour ago, NeedAClew said:

Assume everyone else has COVID.  

Assume you have covid.

Put a good fucking mask on and keep it on when indoors not in your dwelling. In your dwelling, if you insist on letting non residents in, wear a mask. Ask them to put one on before entering. If they won't, relate to them outside in your mask.

Put mask on outdoors in throngs, congested urban sidewalks, trails with trailhog groups you have to pass or get stuck downstream of.  

Wash hands a lot. Especially after fiddling with your mask.

Put used mask in a designated isolated spot for washing if that kind or to let covid croak whatever over a day or so.  We reuse n95s every few days.  Always assume the front is covered with plutonium/covid same diff. 

Worked for me going on 2 years now except for blissful month of May-June.

Really easier than trying to parse latest guidance. 

What makes you assume we don't do all that?

Liams mate took a RAT before coming for christmas dinner.

Masks are still mandated most places.

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2 hours ago, The Dark Knight said:

Hazzard is blaming Anna for creating an unnecessary extra load on NSW's testing capacity. 

Hazzard let it rip in NSW, didn't foresee christmas and traveling :rolleyes: and now expects other states to adjust to accommodate his incompetence. 

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16 hours ago, Se7en said:

So should folks from Melbourne get tested to travel to Mildura?

Or - given I'm a Tasmanian again, and Tas has the biggest population divide (north vs South) of any state, should I need to get tested if I want to pop in and see how FKT's junk rig works?

Newcastle to Woolongong?

Townsville to cairns?

Byron bay to Bundaberg?

Your lines seem rather arbitrary if we all consider ourselves Australians.

Exactly. This is one country. State borders are an anachronistic joke for the most part.

New mainsail went on the boat today. Nobody got damaged, no tools got lost over the side, nothing got broken in both removing the old sail and installing the new one. A few stainless screws got sacrificed to Poseidon as usual.

Going sailing real soon now...

FKT

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2 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Exactly. This is one country. State borders are an anachronistic joke for the most part.

New mainsail went on the boat today. Nobody got damaged, no tools got lost over the side, nothing got broken in both removing the old sail and installing the new one. A few stainless screws got sacrificed to Poseidon as usual.

Going sailing real soon now...

FKT

We went out after lunch, brilliant day for a nice sail…

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1 hour ago, olaf hart said:

We went out after lunch, brilliant day for a nice sail…

We would have gone this afternoon too but I still had the big main bundled up on the transom and all the battens & yards cluttering up the port side deck/cabin top. Thought it better to de-clutter as much as possible.

The next few days look good - the plan is to head off on Thursday. Maybe we'll see you out there.

FKT

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3 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

The next few days look good - the plan is to head off on Thursday. Maybe we'll see you out there.

Jealous.

We have the Nacra parked on the beach in Anderson's bay, but I'm stuck in L'ton for the next couple of days. Being able to avoid the teeming inlaws and park up in a nice bay somewhere sounds like bliss at the moment. Of course, with my current luck, I'd have a blocked head to deal with as soon as we dropped the pick.

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16 hours ago, ShortForBob said:

Hazzard let it rip in NSW, didn't foresee christmas and traveling :rolleyes: and now expects other states to adjust to accommodate his incompetence. 

Yes it is entirely Hazzards fault that Anna and Dan opened their state Borders without any fucking idea what they was doing. The only way out of this now is to let it rip you idiot. As Scomo said, time for everyone to be responsible for their own actions. Keep the fuckwit unvaxxed away, let the sensible people live their lives and if you start to feel sick then stay home until you get better. Call the doctor if you are feeling quite ill. Every viral pandemic in history has only ended by herd immunity. Thanks to vaccination, this finally is now 'The flu'. This testing and isolation bullshit needs to end. Time for the leftards to grow up.

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21 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

Yes it is entirely Hazzards fault that Anna and Dan opened their state Borders without any fucking idea what they was doing. The only way out of this now is to let it rip you idiot.

Pretty much.

I ask the question - if not now then when? What do you want - 150% triple vaccinated?

And people like Meli don't have any real answer. They just want to carp from the sidelines.

FKT

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59 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Pretty much.

I ask the question - if not now then when? What do you want - 150% triple vaccinated?

And people like Meli don't have any real answer. They just want to carp from the sidelines.

FKT

No, as you said when you weren't sucking up to LB, this needs slowing down. Allowing hoards of possibly infected people across borders all at once is stupid.

By all means let people in. After a test at the border and in smaller numbers .

the 72 hour test is dumb because of the speed that this infects . we need some National health guidance. The virus changed, the rules need to change with it.

I'm just tired of NSW calling the shots when we all know they're putting money before safety.

They are now charging up to $150 to watch the fireworks on NYE in the name of "social distancing" FFS.

 

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1 hour ago, LB 15 said:

Yes it is entirely Hazzards fault that Anna and Dan opened their state Borders without any fucking idea what they was doing. The only way out of this now is to let it rip you idiot. As Scomo said, time for everyone to be responsible for their own actions. Keep the fuckwit unvaxxed away, let the sensible people live their lives and if you start to feel sick then stay home until you get better. Call the doctor if you are feeling quite ill. Every viral pandemic in history has only ended by herd immunity. Thanks to vaccination, this finally is now 'The flu'. This testing and isolation bullshit needs to end. Time for the leftards to grow up.

I’m a bit reluctant to say anything here, given your rhetorical skills, but as satisfying as your logic is, herd immunity faces tough challenges with air travel, Omicron as an example.  We simply have too many biologically stressed folks in the world giving COVID (and other things like AIDS) the ideal Petri dish needed to reproduce, and mutate, and what with war & climate migration, disease spread, malnutrition, and people lying about their Vax or even health status. And the infected travel.  (Can you discern the vaccinated from the unvaccinated quickly enough to avoid the casual contact (whatever that is) that Omicron spreads with?)  And usually, when a new bug hits a naive (to that bug) population, it spreads.  And I don’t see the world getting less chaotic, and it is chaos in which bugs flourish.  It’s been argued that the Nuclear Age stopped enough warfare so we had a peaceful enough time to lower the conditions that spread disease.  That fear of global annihilation apparently ended with the fall of the Berlin Wall, and now masses of people are in war, or fleeing war, and are now living in the cramped desperate conditions that microbes need to breed.  Cities are no different, with rising numbers of the homeless living in squalor and disease.  Conservative Harvard political analyst Sam Huntington opined around 1990 that the world had entered a state of conflict that supersedes nation states, economic competition, and ideologies that have become far more insidious: cultural conflict.  As an example, when soldiers in Africa ( or elsewhere) gang rape women repeatedly, how does anyone have a rational discussion, much less a plan of action against sexual transmission of disease?  And AIDS is very much involved in Omicron. 

Maybe it’s time for lefties like me to ‘wake up’, but I’d like to see righties get a clue and see this for what it is- a problem of our own making that is biting us in the butt.  

I don’t know what living sensibly will look like with waves of new COVID every year or so.  There’s no real evidence that disease virility and increased spread always have an inverse relation.
 


 

 


 

 

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12 minutes ago, ShortForBob said:

No, as you said when you weren't sucking up to LB, this needs slowing down. Allowing hoards of possibly infected people across borders all at once is stupid.

By all means let people in. After a test at the border and in smaller numbers .

the 72 hour test is dumb because of the speed that this infects . we need some National health guidance. The virus changed, the rules need to change with it.

I'm just tired of NSW calling the shots when we all know they're putting money before safety.

They are now charging up to $150 to watch the fireworks on NYE in the name of "social distancing" FFS.

 

I don't give a fuck about the fireworks. Watch them on TV or don't bother. I plan on being in a bay somewhere or tucked up behind an island.

As for slowing the rate of movement, you can't. That sets up a permanent rationing system. We're PAST that whether you like it or not and whether I like it or not. I don't like it, as it happens, but I deal with the reality I'm faced with not the one I'd like to have.

What part of THIS IS ONE COUNTRY do you find hard to understand? I've never agreed with what the States have been doing, at most I've accepted it as a short term, limited response to a health crisis. With ~95% vax rates, it's now unjustifiable and unsustainable. We have a right to free movement between States, it's not actually up for discussion. Whether it was NSW or somewhere else, this was coming regardless.

I reiterate - at what level of vaccination would you personally accept free movement between the States? And would you also apply the same criteria to overseas travel?

Agree about the test - it's a pointless waste of resources and overloading the system for no perceptible benefit.

This genie is OUT and isn't going back. We're now well into the 'dealing with consequences' phase.

As for sucking up to LB - you don't hang out in CA where I've described Moreton Bay in somewhat less than flattering terms and expressed my admiration for the Scarborough area, where they seemed to have mastered the skill of teaching dugongs to wear clothes, flip-flops and overrun the 'beachside' coffee shops... and he's expressed similar sentiments WRT Tasmania. We don't take ourselves too seriously is all.

FKT

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22 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

I don't give a fuck about the fireworks. Watch them on TV or don't bother. I plan on being in a bay somewhere or tucked up behind an island.

As for slowing the rate of movement, you can't. That sets up a permanent rationing system. We're PAST that whether you like it or not and whether I like it or not. I don't like it, as it happens, but I deal with the reality I'm faced with not the one I'd like to have.

What part of THIS IS ONE COUNTRY do you find hard to understand? I've never agreed with what the States have been doing, at most I've accepted it as a short term, limited response to a health crisis. With ~95% vax rates, it's now unjustifiable and unsustainable. We have a right to free movement between States, it's not actually up for discussion. Whether it was NSW or somewhere else, this was coming regardless.

I reiterate - at what level of vaccination would you personally accept free movement between the States? And would you also apply the same criteria to overseas travel?

Agree about the test - it's a pointless waste of resources and overloading the system for no perceptible benefit.

This genie is OUT and isn't going back. We're now well into the 'dealing with consequences' phase.

As for sucking up to LB - you don't hang out in CA where I've described Moreton Bay in somewhat less than flattering terms and expressed my admiration for the Scarborough area, where they seemed to have mastered the skill of teaching dugongs to wear clothes, flip-flops and overrun the 'beachside' coffee shops... and he's expressed similar sentiments WRT Tasmania. We don't take ourselves too seriously is all.

FKT

So you want us to accept the "reality' of the virus but not the Reality of the states?

 

You get stupider as you get older.

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46 minutes ago, ShortForBob said:

No, as you said when you weren't sucking up to LB, this needs slowing down. Allowing hoards of possibly infected people across borders all at once is stupid.

By all means let people in. After a test at the border and in smaller numbers .

the 72 hour test is dumb because of the speed that this infects . we need some National health guidance. The virus changed, the rules need to change with it.

I'm just tired of NSW calling the shots when we all know they're putting money before safety.

They are now charging up to $150 to watch the fireworks on NYE in the name of "social distancing" FFS.

 

Good luck to them if they can raise millions charging morons to watch fireworks. Bogans  deserve to be parted from their money. We finally spread my parents Ashes yesterday after waiting for two years for my sister to be able to come home. Dug a big hole in bush behind the old family home tipped them in and planted two trees on top of them. We then toasted them with Champagne Mumm and Johnny Walker Black- Their favourite tipples. 

Thank god they never lived to see how stupid Australians have become.

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