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Multi-State Protection Agreement


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The new 'Federal' philosophy is very obviously 'every state for itself,' and already several states have formed compacts for mutual protection.  It began as agreements between (i think) NJ/NY/CT/PA for coordinated shutdowns, and now that the Trumpies and Jared have abdicated on any federal responsibilities at all, it's time for the educated states to get together and sign a multi-state compact for pandemic preparedness.  I'm not sure what they are waiting for frankly - even 10 states together will have more purchasing power than individual states, and when there's no federal response, states that don't form this kind of compact will definitely be at a disadvantage to states that do.

The compact would form a framework for more states to agree on combined policies and responses to crises in the absence of federal action or leadership.  It would create a union of states to provide for the common welfare.  I'd guess it would start with something like NY/NJ/CT/CA/WA/OR/CO and grow from there. 

You might call it a Compact for the Defense of the United States but I'm not sure of any trademark issues.

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1 hour ago, MR.CLEAN said:

The new 'Federal' philosophy is very obviously 'every state for itself,' and already several states have formed compacts for mutual protection.  It began as agreements between (i think) NJ/NY/CT/PA for coordinated shutdowns, and now that the Trumpies and Jared have abdicated on any federal responsibilities at all, it's time for the educated states to get together and sign a multi-state compact for pandemic preparedness.  I'm not sure what they are waiting for frankly - even 10 states together will have more purchasing power than individual states, and when there's no federal response, states that don't form this kind of compact will definitely be at a disadvantage to states that do.

The compact would form a framework for more states to agree on combined policies and responses to crises in the absence of federal action or leadership.  It would create a union of states to provide for the common welfare.  I'd guess it would start with something like NY/NJ/CT/CA/WA/OR/CO and grow from there. 

You might call it a Compact for the Defense of the United States but I'm not sure of any trademark issues.

How did they abdicate a responsibility that they never had?

 

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5 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

How did they abdicate a responsibility that they never had?

 

Great, so no objection to such a multi-state compact for the defense of those specifically united states?

You're cool with a coalition of wealthier states outbidding all the poorer states for medical equipment in the next pandemic, leaving the poorer states to fend for themselves, correct?

 

 

 

 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Great, so no objection to such a multi-state compact for the defense of those specifically united states?

You're cool with a coalition of wealthier states outbidding all the poorer states for medical equipment in the next pandemic, leaving the poorer states to fend for themselves, correct?

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think they see that as the preferred option.

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Imagine what the power of a 50 state mutual aid compact might be. I'm surprised no one has thought of that in the last, ohhhh, 244 years or so.

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1 minute ago, Willin' said:

Imagine what the power of a 50 state mutual aid compact might be. I'm surprised no one has thought of that in the last, ohhhh, 244 years or so.

You'd better leave out the southern states, and flyover country. They will just complain and sabotage.

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1 hour ago, MR.CLEAN said:

The new 'Federal' philosophy is very obviously 'every state for itself,' and already several states have formed compacts for mutual protection.  It began as agreements between (i think) NJ/NY/CT/PA for coordinated shutdowns, and now that the Trumpies and Jared have abdicated on any federal responsibilities at all, it's time for the educated states to get together and sign a multi-state compact for pandemic preparedness.  I'm not sure what they are waiting for frankly - even 10 states together will have more purchasing power than individual states, and when there's no federal response, states that don't form this kind of compact will definitely be at a disadvantage to states that do.

The compact would form a framework for more states to agree on combined policies and responses to crises in the absence of federal action or leadership.  It would create a union of states to provide for the common welfare.  I'd guess it would start with something like NY/NJ/CT/CA/WA/OR/CO and grow from there. 

You might call it a Compact for the Defense of the United States but I'm not sure of any trademark issues.

That a collection of states has to even consider an approach like this is indicative of failure on the federal level.  FEMA should be out in front of this, leveraging the national volume purchasing power, emergency budgets, and established logistics paths to streamline acquisition and delivery of vital equipment/supplies to where it is critically needed. 

 

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31 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Great, so no objection to such a multi-state compact for the defense of those specifically united states?

You're cool with a coalition of wealthier states outbidding all the poorer states for medical equipment in the next pandemic, leaving the poorer states to fend for themselves, correct?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Free markets, free people!  

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Will someone please stand by the trolls like SoreAss (and Jared "The Oleagenous Oyster "Kushner) while they slowly read out the words: "The. United. States. of. America."  and General. Welfare". 

And then ask them to define those words to mean what the House of Orange wants them to mean.  

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13 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

Will someone please stand by the trolls like SoreAss (and Jared "The Oleagenous Oyster "Kushner) while they slowly read out the words: "The. United. States. of. America."  and General. Welfare". 

And then ask them to define those words to mean what the House of Orange wants them to mean.  

That would be "States that voted for Trump in 2016 and/or states with governors from the American party." 

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10 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

That would be "States that voted for Trump in 2016 and/or states with governors from the American party." 

Fuck the states. there's some serious Griftin to be had. The Kush gets to sell HIS inventory to the highest bidder!

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2 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Fuck the states. there's some serious Griftin to be had. The Kush gets to sell HIS inventory to the highest bidder!

Pull a Trump. Payment of the Kush inventory upon delivery maybe with a small deposit up front.  Take delivery and stiff the sucker.  Just like his daddy in law has done numerous times

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52 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

That a collection of states has to even consider an approach like this is indicative of failure on the federal level.  FEMA should be out in front of this, leveraging the national volume purchasing power, emergency budgets, and established logistics paths to streamline acquisition and delivery of vital equipment/supplies to where it is critically needed. 

 

Well consider it a promise Trump made that he kept - reducing the size of government. #winning.

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1 hour ago, MR.CLEAN said:

a coalition of wealthier states

you mean like NY/NJ/CT/CA/WA ?

I would think the poorer states are the ones who need a coalition in order to fight against the northerners

wait a minute - didn't they try that already?

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6 minutes ago, hermetic said:

you mean like NY/NJ/CT/CA/WA ?

I would think the poorer states are the ones who need a coalition in order to fight against the northerners

wait a minute - didn't they try that already?

One might argue that after the War of Northern Aggression the poorer states had an opportunity to mend their ways.  But they chose to stick to their traditions (cue Tevye and Traditions from Fiddler on the Roof) and way of life.  Despite the loss of union and industrial jobs, the blue states are still carrying the red states.  As we used to say back in the old neighborhood, screw ‘em.

*And me a retired Catholic with this being Holy Week.  The nuns would be ashamed of me.

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2 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Great, so no objection to such a multi-state compact for the defense of those specifically united states?

You're cool with a coalition of wealthier states outbidding all the poorer states for medical equipment in the next pandemic, leaving the poorer states to fend for themselves, correct?

 

No, I'm not cool with that so I'll put you down with agreeing with Jared Kushner that the federal stockpile is a federal asset whose content will be released to the states on the basis of need and not the demand for, oh say 40000 ventilators, by one of the rich states.

That whole premise is wrong though.  A stockpile needs to be monitored and maintained.  For example, the federal stockpile was releasing outdated respirators and the CDC had to give the OK on that because the stockpile was not managed properly.  In the case of respirators that would mean releasing the near end of life stock while it is still useful to hospitals that could use them.  Perhaps free clinics in some areas.

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Just now, Saorsa said:

No, I'm not cool with that so I'll put you down with agreeing with Jared Kushner that the federal stockpile is a federal asset whose content will be released to the states on the basis of need and not the demand for, oh say 40000 ventilators, by one of the rich states.

That whole premise is wrong though.  A stockpile needs to be monitored and maintained.  For example, the federal stockpile was releasing outdated respirators and the CDC had to give the OK on that because the stockpile was not managed properly.  In the case of respirators that would mean releasing the near end of life stock while it is still useful to hospitals that could use them.  Perhaps free clinics in some areas.

Uhh, no, Jared saw the stockpile as HIS, and now is selling it via an old fundraising buddy to the highest bidder, local or international. But nice try.

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14 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

No, I'm not cool with that so I'll put you down with agreeing with Jared Kushner that the federal stockpile is a federal asset whose content will be released to the states on the basis of need and not the demand for, oh say 40000 ventilators, by one of the rich states.

That whole premise is wrong though.  A stockpile needs to be monitored and maintained.  For example, the federal stockpile was releasing outdated respirators and the CDC had to give the OK on that because the stockpile was not managed properly.  In the case of respirators that would mean releasing the near end of life stock while it is still useful to hospitals that could use them.  Perhaps free clinics in some areas.

This thread has nothing to do with anything federal, or about whatever you just wrote about.

It is about a confederacy of states pooling their resources to answer the white house's reframing of the relative responsibility between state and federal governments for preparing for a global emergency.

It doesn't take long for competitors to consolidate regardless of marketplace.  If the federal government isn't interested in the subject, that's how it needs to go immediately.

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2 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

 FEMA should be out in front of this, leveraging the national volume purchasing power, emergency budgets, and established logistics paths to streamline acquisition and delivery of vital equipment/supplies to where it is critically needed. 

 

I think they would be if they could be.  headless dogs don't hunt though.

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Speaking of the states.  Got this from a friend:

*A RECAP OF THE LAST THREE WEEKS*

 

AMERICA: Oh my god! Coronavirus! What should we do?

 CALIFORNIA: Shut down your state.

 AMERICA: Wait... what? Why?

CALIFORNIA: Because 40 million people live here and we did it early, and it's working.

 OHIO: Whoa... whoa... let's not be hasty now. The president said that this whole coronavirus thing is a democratic hoax.

 CALIFORNIA: He also said that windmills cause cancer. Shut down your state.

 TEXAS: But the president said that we only have 15 cases and soon it'll be zero.

 CALIFORNIA: The president can't count to fifteen. Nor even spell it. Shut down your state.

 NEW JERSEY: Us too?

 CALIFORNIA: Yes, you guys too. Just like when Christie shut down the bridge, but it's your whole state.

 FLORIDA: But what about all these kids here on spring break?? They spend a lot of money here!

 CALIFORNIA: Those kids invented the tide pod challenge. Shut down your state.

 LOUISIANA: But wait let's have Mardi Gras first. It entertains people.

 CALIFORNIA: It also kills them. Shut it down.

 GEORGIA: Ok well how about we keep the state open for all of our mega churches? Maybe we can all pray really hard until the coronavirus just goes away!

 CALIFORNIA: Which is working like a charm for mass shootings. Jesus told us to tell you to shut down your state.

 OKLAHOMA: What about the tigers?

 CALIFORNIA: What about a dentist. Shut it down.

 WYOMING: Hold up, maybe we should go county by county like the president said.

 CALIFORNIA: Stop acting like there are counties in Wyoming. There are no counties in Wyoming. Wyoming is a county. Shut it down.

 PENNSYLVANIA: But big coal.

 CALIFORNIA: But big death. Shut it.

 WEST VIRGINIA: But we were the last state to get coronavirus!

 CALIFORNIA: And don't make us explain to you why that was. Shut it down.

 NORTH CAROLINA: But the republican national convention is coming here!

 CALIFORNIA: SHU... ok fine, do what you want.

 

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3 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

 

.... a coalition of wealthier states outbidding all the poorer states for medical equipment in the next pandemic, leaving the poorer states to fend for themselves....

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's the American way. 

Business is business, fuck you I got mine, they're mostly trailer trash or dark-skinned types anyway.

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13 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

There's a big difference between reigning in specific agencies who's behavior exceeded their mandate and wholesale abdication of basic responsibility, wouldn't ya say?  

Sure, and just which of those do you think this administration has been doing? You get 2 guesses.  Choose wisely

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1 hour ago, jerseyguy said:

Speaking of the states.  Got this from a friend:

*A RECAP OF THE LAST THREE WEEKS*

 

AMERICA: Oh my god! Coronavirus! What should we do?

 CALIFORNIA: Shut down your state.

 AMERICA: Wait... what? Why?

CALIFORNIA: Because 40 million people live here and we did it early, and it's working.

 OHIO: Whoa... whoa... let's not be hasty now. The president said that this whole coronavirus thing is a democratic hoax.

 CALIFORNIA: He also said that windmills cause cancer. Shut down your state.

 TEXAS: But the president said that we only have 15 cases and soon it'll be zero.

 CALIFORNIA: The president can't count to fifteen. Nor even spell it. Shut down your state.

 NEW JERSEY: Us too?

 CALIFORNIA: Yes, you guys too. Just like when Christie shut down the bridge, but it's your whole state.

 FLORIDA: But what about all these kids here on spring break?? They spend a lot of money here!

 CALIFORNIA: Those kids invented the tide pod challenge. Shut down your state.

 LOUISIANA: But wait let's have Mardi Gras first. It entertains people.

 CALIFORNIA: It also kills them. Shut it down.

 GEORGIA: Ok well how about we keep the state open for all of our mega churches? Maybe we can all pray really hard until the coronavirus just goes away!

 CALIFORNIA: Which is working like a charm for mass shootings. Jesus told us to tell you to shut down your state.

 OKLAHOMA: What about the tigers?

 CALIFORNIA: What about a dentist. Shut it down.

 WYOMING: Hold up, maybe we should go county by county like the president said.

 CALIFORNIA: Stop acting like there are counties in Wyoming. There are no counties in Wyoming. Wyoming is a county. Shut it down.

 PENNSYLVANIA: But big coal.

 CALIFORNIA: But big death. Shut it.

 WEST VIRGINIA: But we were the last state to get coronavirus!

 CALIFORNIA: And don't make us explain to you why that was. Shut it down.

 NORTH CAROLINA: But the republican national convention is coming here!

 CALIFORNIA: SHU... ok fine, do what you want.

 

Actually North Carolina took a number of steps short of a full shut down, weeks ago, and is now shut down. This state isn't doing badly right now. Hot spots around Charlotte and Wilmington (which I think is a spillover from Myrtle Beach).

Our county has had a few cases and I assume the virus is out there. We've had only a couple of hospital admissions, none for the past two days. I expect we're going to have more over the next few weeks.

- DSK

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21 minutes ago, d'ranger said:

Sure, and just which of those do you think this administration has been doing? You get 2 guesses.  Choose wisely

There's no question that Trump's adjustments have been hatchet jobs.  was I mistaken in the impression that you were equating the two?  If so, apologies. 

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1 minute ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

There's no question that Trump's adjustments have been hatchet jobs.  was I mistaken in the impression that you were equating the two?  If so, apologies. 

No problems mate - I don't like big oppressive government any more than you do. I also don't like it when the Putz in Chief strips essential services to build his fucking wall. And feed his base.  oh well, rant off. and then blames Obama. ok, really finished now....

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7 minutes ago, d'ranger said:
10 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

There's no question that Trump's adjustments have been hatchet jobs.  was I mistaken in the impression that you were equating the two?  If so, apologies. 

No problems mate - I don't like big oppressive government any more than you do. I also don't like it when the Putz in Chief strips essential services to build his fucking wall. And feed his base.  oh well, rant off. and then blames Obama. ok, really finished now....

Preach it brother! oh wait.....

- DSK

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Coalitions of states sounds like a great way to break up the Union. 

Divided we fall.... why are the current President and his party trying to divide us? 

Vlad has got to be dancing over this. 

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Somewhere in a time not too long ago I pointed out that the 'M" in FEMA stands for management. as in managing federal emergencies. As someone who has contracted with them they are not perfect but that is still their stated purpose and they mostly do a good job.  Not when there are competing nincompoops on the podium however.  I am pretty sure Jared could take a bachelor party and FUBAR it totally.

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There's nothing Shitstain touches that doesn't turn to shit. His former FEMA manager, Brock Long, finally resigned in disgrace. An indication of how Shitstain will fuck things up with COVID is how he fucked things up for Puerto Rico, twice. I live in CA and CA has got this for CA. We have adults running the show. I feel for other states who have to depend on Shitstain's FEMA.

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7 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Great, so no objection to such a multi-state compact for the defense of those specifically united states?

So your dislike of states making compacts with each other is situational? Why am I not surprised.

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37 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

You're a pretty adamant supporter of the National Populat Vote, which taken at face value, is a compact between states.  I think BPM has a point. 

I'm also a supporter of the multistate compact that is the subject of this thread.  What's BPM's point exactly?  I keep missing it.

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12 minutes ago, Olsonist said:

Luckily, the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact is not a compact.

But there is the Great Lakes Water Compact

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1 minute ago, Raz'r said:

But there is the Great Lakes Water Compact

In matters affecting multiple states where the federal government chooses not to use the powers granted it by the constitution, states must legislate for their common good. Where that means interstate agreements, such agreements should efficiently pool the party states' resources in a way that increases the power of their response to the matter in question.  For something like a multi-state pandemic response, if I was a governor I'd really wanna be part of whatever California and New York put together for the future.  Though if you are going to do an interstate pandemic response compact, you might as well just do a comprehensive interstate health care compact that standardizes insurance requirements and healthcare programs, right?

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9 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

You are? I took your comments as a lament. 

Not at all.  Other than my short stint as a conspiracy theorist, I've always been a pragmatist.

While I'd much prefer to see a comprehensive federal approach to things that have severe effects on the whole country, I also recognize that there have been many presidents who drove the federal government into more of a spectator role.  Hoover is perhaps the most reviled, but others have also chosen to sit back and allow states the latitude to dictate the initial response to a national crisis no matter how many times that has proven to be a deadly non-plan.

Once the executive branch has signaled that it has no responsibility and intends to form no real plan for pandemic preparedness, foreign pandemic surveillance, or pandemic response, I'd say that governors starts to look negligent if they do not form immediate binding relationships with other states governors to tackle the problem together. 

It is possible that such a thing puts our feet on a path towards an eventual secession or civil war, but that is not relevant.    The health and welfare of each states' residents is.

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1 hour ago, Olsonist said:

There's nothing Shitstain touches that doesn't turn to shit. His former FEMA manager, Brock Long, finally resigned in disgrace. An indication of how Shitstain will fuck things up with COVID is how he fucked things up for Puerto Rico, twice. I live in CA and CA has got this for CA. We have adults running the show. I feel for other states who have to depend on Shitstain's FEMA.

How about states whose governor waits for guidance from the feds before taking action?  
 

-I don’t want responsibility, you take it. 
 

-Don’t give it to me, I don’t want it!

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38 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

How about states whose governor waits for guidance from the feds before taking action?  
 

-I don’t want responsibility, you take it. 
 

-Don’t give it to me, I don’t want it!

That's real leadership. We will not see diseases like the coronavirus come here..and isn't it refreshing when contrasting it with the awful presidency of President Obama.

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10 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Great, so no objection to such a multi-state compact for the defense of those specifically united states?

You're cool with a coalition of wealthier states outbidding all the poorer states for medical equipment in the next pandemic, leaving the poorer states to fend for themselves, correct?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well that situation Is the next logical step to "screw you I've got mine".

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10 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Once the executive branch has signaled that it has no responsibility and intends to form no real plan for pandemic preparedness, foreign pandemic surveillance, or pandemic response, I'd say that governors starts to look negligent if they do not form immediate binding relationships with other states governors to tackle the problem together. 

what are the states going to share?

supplies? - after this round,  each state legislatures should have zero problems convincing the tax base they need to stockpile equipment

hospital rooms / space? - not really doable unless they are neighboring states.  maybe portable units

doctors / nurses? - this would assume the virus doesn't hit every state in the same timeframe

pandemic response plans? - they've all got them already, but updating and sharing them would obviously be a good idea.  California's seemed to work.  NY's looks to be a huge failure

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10 hours ago, Keith said:

So, why would you call it "The United States of America"  if there isn't a united approach to fighting this non military war.

inquiring minds need to know.

Well, if they had tried to call it call it "The Disjointed States of Fucking Over Your Neighbor" then all those old guys in wigs would not have agreed to sign the declaration with their granny glasses and goose quills

- DSK

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18 hours ago, jerseyguy said:

Pull a Trump. Payment of the Kush inventory upon delivery maybe with a small deposit up front.  Take delivery and stiff the sucker.  Just like his daddy in law has done numerous times

We need to do this with the different arms of the military.  Kush holds all the armaments and puts them up for bid - Army bidding against Navy bidding against Air Force, etc.

Same with law enforcement agencies.  And fire departments.  And grocery chains.  And...

Imagine the profits!

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2 hours ago, hermetic said:

 

supplies? - after this round,  each state legislatures should have zero problems convincing the tax base they need to stockpile equipment

 hospital rooms / space? - not really doable unless they are neighboring states.  maybe portable units

doctors / nurses? - this would assume the virus doesn't hit every state in the same timeframe

pandemic response plans? - they've all got them already, but updating and sharing them would obviously be a good idea.  California's seemed to work.  NY's looks to be a huge failure

yes

yes

yes

yes

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If the federal government is going to abdicate its responsibility/ability, then banding together is the best way for states to address their needs.  One would have thought that we might have learned this lesson as far back as when there was a discussion about the failures of the fucking Articles of Confederation and the need for a Constitution, but hey, maybe that's when America was great, who the fuck knows. 

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3 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

If the federal government is going to abdicate its responsibility/ability, then banding together is the best way for states to address their needs.  One would have thought that we might have learned this lesson as far back as when there was a discussion about the failures of the fucking Articles of Confederation and the need for a Constitution, but hey, maybe that's when America was great, who the fuck knows. 

MAGA (where "G"=A.D.1781)

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  • 2 weeks later...
15 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

Now wait just a cotton pickin minute here.  Are there no limits to Stites Rats? They's supposed to only count when we want to discriminate against some minority group or the other.  This is crazy stuff. 

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13 states now coordinating efforts.  11 of the 13 have Governors who are Democrats.  Coincidence, correlation, causation or ???

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4 hours ago, jerseyguy said:

13 states now coordinating efforts.  11 of the 13 have Governors who are Democrats.  Coincidence, correlation, causation or ???

Make that 17 states with 14 Dem Governors

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6 hours ago, jerseyguy said:

Make that 17 states with 14 Dem Governors

Looks like the states are giving up on the feds, one way or another. With any luck, the Mason Dixon Line is perforated.

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