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Alameda Marina Development Fuckery


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Well after chasing out those who spoke out against the original marina plan years ago, then promises made to many prominent marine businesses that they would be able to stay on the property and would simply move into a redeveloped historic building.   Then January 1 they gave these businesses and a yacht club 90 days notice to vacate.   Not really easy to relocate in the heart of the Bay Area and stay near the water.   One loss was the 30-35 year large loft is not more, closed and reduced down to an office.   Now they just issued a a notice to the remaining dry storage tenants that the current hoist would not be in use anymore after May 15th AND would not reopen in it greatly reduced number of spots until the END of 2021.  This is the only dry storage in the estuary besides the Encinal Yacht Club.   Multihull have no where to go as Brickyard Cover doesn't accept multihull.    So there you have it, fuck by the developer again without even a kiss.  As we all know once waterfront is lost for boating use it doesn't come back.   Tragic.   

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9 minutes ago, solosailor said:

Well after chasing out those who spoke out against the original marina plan years ago, then promises made to many prominent marine businesses that they would be able to stay on the property and would simply move into a redeveloped historic building.   Then January 1 they gave these businesses and a yacht club 90 days notice to vacate.   Not really easy to relocate in the heart of the Bay Area and stay near the water.   One loss was the 30-35 year large loft is not more, closed and reduced down to an office.   Now they just issued a a notice to the remaining dry storage tenants that the current hoist would not be in use anymore after May 15th AND would not reopen in it greatly reduced number of spots until the END of 2021.  This is the only dry storage in the estuary besides the Encinal Yacht Club.   Multihull have no where to go as Brickyard Cover doesn't accept multihull.    So there you have it, fuck by the developer again without even a kiss.  As we all know once waterfront is lost for boating use it doesn't come back.   Tragic.   

Alameda city council sold out. They will end up with rows of 3-4 story barriers to the water, more parking woes, more traffic woes, and a couple boats in a parting lot to keep the "heritage."

 

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2 hours ago, solosailor said:

500 more units packed into that property so plenty more will achieve the dream of living "on" the water with excellent kayak access.

Same thing happened in Redwood City.  I think it's called Blue Harbor.  

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3 hours ago, solosailor said:

Did Redwood City lose 200 dry storage spaces and two hoists?

They lost Pete’s Harbor, not quite as useful to the folks with a bit of money.

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6 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Property developers should be quietly assassinated when they do shit like that.

After 1/2 dozen or so the rest would get the message.

I once had a job as a project manager at a property development company. Never again, it was soul-destroying and I ended up resigning myself. They didn't care for anything, except profit, whatever it would take.

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As an alameda sailing resident - we stepped off the gas and we needed a real plan that works for us.  We knew we could not trust the city or the developers to protect our precious estuary access space.

put me on the list and let’s create an action plan soon.  

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Going to be hard to get your boats out by 15 May with the lockdown and prohibition on sailing. Maybe this pending economic collapse will screw their development plans though? Especially if they don't have any more Chinese buyers bidding up your prices on the W. Coast?

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7 hours ago, Marcjsmith said:

can we add lawyers to the list?

What about construction defect lawyers.  Doesn't save the dry storage/Hogin Sails etc, but it's still satisfying to take a pound of flesh out of the developer and then spend it on boats. 

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1 hour ago, snipelee said:

Tons of space at the old naval station on the western side of Alameda. Just need some vision and ambition. 

There were plans at one time for a full service marina in that space. 

But even if you could just get the old Nelson's space.

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If it's like here, just cash in the right political hands.

Or future considerations like a high paid vice presidency such as that which Vancouver's last mayor just received.

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8 hours ago, pipboat said:

So between three current projects...  Alameda Point, Encinal Terminals and Alameda Marina, you're looking at over 2,000 more housing units on the Island.

 

Don't forget the old Del Monte plant on Buena Vista.  450 units 

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There's definitely been some dirt moved around next to the AMP building. As a renter I'm hopeful that we'll end up with something evenly remotely affordable. Last I heard the Del Monte Warehouse development was supposed to end up with units in the $700's, which would be great. I really hope we don't end up with another Mulberry type development with million dollar McMansions 6 feet apart. 

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Not unique to 'Frisco, 'Dago has been under pressure to gentrify the waterfront too for years. Shipyards replaced by Condos, North moved their waterfront loft inland  as did the dinghy shop due to a jacked up lease renewals.  Single family housing within walking distance of the waterfront replaced by multistory box apartments.

Free Harbor Island parking gone & now gated $10USD/2 hours except a few dozen street spots.   Two  2 star island restaurants closed soon after pay to park started & the funky Reuben E. Lee floating paddlewheel steamer was replaced with an ultra high end  Mexican restaurant (CostaLotta) years ago.

It's the same story over and over, the developer promises the Planning/Coastal/Harbor Commission(s) the moon concerning preserving coastal access/maritime activities, then slowly reneges as the years pass.  Two examples,  all the Island development over the years required a shoreline public access walkway on the northern side of Harbor Island for the entire length of the island. A while back I tried to walk it and was met by locked gates at hotel properties in several spots.  One '80s giant marina development was required to provide a publicly accessible rooftop observation deck of the Bay to ameliorate the view blocked by the Marina office complex.  A few years later the stairs were locked up, no access.  I was a bit pissed so pressed the issue because it was a great place to watch Bay sailboat races and was told the deck was  overrun with drug users,  overnight homeless encampments & a safety hazard because it had fallen in to disrepair.  Really?  Where have the security and maintenance costs been diverted to?

Don't get me started on the competitive bid McMillan winner  "Liberty Station" waterfront former Marine induction center redevelopment (100s of millions of $$$), promised the moon,  developed the high end housing/condo areas posthaste, refurbed & leased the commercial center, but then stalled out and abandoned 20% of the buildings (now dilapidated)  scheduled to be low cost "art" lofts and low income housing.  Recently the community center and convention hall were switched from cover costs  to premium pay to play operations and True Value Hardware, North Sails & others have had to move  further inland because their leases were jacked up 150%, replaced by tourist high end beer pub/boutique restaurant style businesses who can afford the lease.

Waterfront land is in short supply and the developers who know how to play the game can outfox regulatory agents by bribery, political activities and just plain not meeting their obligations after a few years.  You can see it in marinas too where  4KN shitbox owners get booted to reconfigure for 65' million dollar powerboats, the ultimate waterfront ownership.

The future looks dim for me as a 6KN shitbox liveaboard racer/cruiser in 'Cali. My slip rent has quadrupled over the last 15 years and I may have to swallow the anchor and move to Arizona.
 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, axolotl said:

Not unique to 'Frisco, 'Dago has been under pressure to gentrify the waterfront too for years. Shipyards replaced by Condos, North moved their waterfront loft inland  as did the dinghy shop due to a jacked up lease renewals.  Single family housing within walking distance of the waterfront replaced by multistory box apartments.

Free Harbor Island parking gone & now gated $10USD/2 hours except a few dozen street spots.   Two  2 star island restaurants closed soon after pay to park started & the funky Reuben E. Lee floating paddlewheel steamer was replaced with an ultra high end  Mexican restaurant (CostaLotta) years ago.

It's the same story over and over, the developer promises the Planning/Coastal/Harbor Commission(s) the moon concerning preserving coastal access/maritime activities, then slowly reneges as the years pass.  Two examples,  all the Island development over the years required a shoreline public access walkway on the northern side of Harbor Island for the entire length of the island. A while back I tried to walk it and was met by locked gates at hotel properties in several spots.  One '80s giant marina development was required to provide a publicly accessible rooftop observation deck of the Bay to ameliorate the view blocked by the Marina office complex.  A few years later the stairs were locked up, no access.  I was a bit pissed so pressed the issue because it was a great place to watch Bay sailboat races and was told the deck was  overrun with drug users,  overnight homeless encampments & a safety hazard because it had fallen in to disrepair.  Really?  Where have the security and maintenance costs been diverted to?

Don't get me started on the competitive bid McMillan winner  "Liberty Station" waterfront former Marine induction center redevelopment (100s of millions of $$$), promised the moon,  developed the high end housing/condo areas posthaste, refurbed & leased the commercial center, but then stalled out and abandoned 20% of the buildings (now dilapidated)  scheduled to be low cost "art" lofts and low income housing.  Recently the community center and convention hall were switched from cover costs  to premium pay to play operations and True Value Hardware, North Sails & others have had to move  further inland because their leases were jacked up 150%, replaced by tourist high end beer pub/boutique restaurant style businesses who can afford the lease.

Waterfront land is in short supply and the developers who know how to play the game can outfox regulatory agents by bribery, political activities and just plain not meeting their obligations after a few years.  You can see it in marinas too where  4KN shitbox owners get booted to reconfigure for 65' million dollar powerboats, the ultimate waterfront ownership.

The future looks dim for me as a 6KN shitbox liveaboard racer/cruiser in 'Cali. My slip rent has quadrupled over the last 15 years and I may have to swallow the anchor and move to Arizona.
 

 

 

you sir are not a real sailor if you are considering a move to Arizona.

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Last I heard the developer on Treasure Island wanted to convert the ENTIRETY of Clipper Cove into a mega-yacht marina. And while that sounds kinda cool, it would also kinda screw over US Sailing and their Olympic training center at TISC. It's not finalized yet, so maybe us locals can do something to encourage shared use of the cove. 

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22 minutes ago, Some.Rando said:

Last I heard the developer on Treasure Island wanted to convert the ENTIRETY of Clipper Cove into a mega-yacht marina. And while that sounds kinda cool, it would also kinda screw over US Sailing and their Olympic training center at TISC. It's not finalized yet, so maybe us locals can do something to encourage shared use of the cove. 

yes, a mega harbor, and no access to the cove for the guy with his 4ksb

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3 hours ago, Raz'r said:

yes, a mega harbor, and no access to the cove for the guy with his 4ksb

Why don't we buy the hoist and figure out a way to stick it over at Nelsons old yard. We can steal the floating docks that are by the hoist. Maybe pitch the city on giving us some money, reminding them of the promises they broke.

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@solosailorTalked to Tim over at RYC. We have a storage area next to our parking lot that is somethings used to store boats and for regatta overflow. Up until recently, we've had a few boat there, unfortunately the city is being a bitch and requiring us to improve the lot before it becomes an official storage area. We have plans to do that, but it won't happen real soon. So that is out for the near future. However, Tim said that Brickyard Cove has been sold to a new owner (final ownership pending). That means that the previous owner, and multihull hater (Kers), is going to be out of the picture real soon. Might be worth trying to get some boats over there. 

If I were a multihull owner @Multihauler, I'd call them up and get a parking spot. When they ask what boat you are bringing, say a custom "Farrier Sportboat" and leave it at that. No one will give a shit once you are there.

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16 hours ago, bhyde said:

 Maybe pitch the city on giving us some money, reminding them of the promises they broke.

:lol: Yeah, that'll have a big effect on a bunch of politicians who just received huge donations or promises of future high paid jobs from the developers.

Back in the 70's we had the fastest drag strip in the world here at Mission. The provincial pols wanted to give the land to a fiberglass manufacturer to build a new plant. They convinced the strip owners to give up the property based on a promise they would provide an alternate site.

Decades later, the glass plant was long gone but still no alternate site - finally the strip people just built a new one nearby.

Promises from politicians. :lol: You must be very young.

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40 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

:lol: Yeah, that'll have a big effect on a bunch of politicians who just received huge donations or promises of future high paid jobs from the developers.

Back in the 70's we had the fastest drag strip in the world here at Mission. The provincial pols wanted to give the land to a fiberglass manufacturer to build a new plant. They convinced the strip owners to give up the property based on a promise they would provide an alternate site.

Decades later, the glass plant was long gone but still no alternate site - finally the strip people just built a new one nearby.

Promises from politicians. :lol: You must be very young.

Yeah, I hear ya. 

In the 80's I also spent many hours of my misguided youth bracket racing at Fremont (aka Baylands) raceway - the fastest drag strip in the world. Like sailing, most anything that doesn't have mass mark appeal, just can't survive anymore. 

BTW: I refuse to support drag racing until TF and FC resume racing a 1/4 mile. Its been over ten years since Scott Kalitta died, so everyone has had time to fix their tracks and make them safe. Pussies.

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I'd prefer they dial back the power in the Fuel cars and go back to 1/4 mile.

Make them go back to 6-71 blowers for example. :D cut them back to 2000 or 3000 HP.

Dragging has always been about quick and not fast - there is no need for them to peak over 300 for the spectacle to be the same.

They were a hell of a lot more interesting back in the 60's when they were only doing 200 or so. Now the car and driver have very little to do with it - the crew chief who guesses best at the combination VS conditions is all that determines who wins now.

Last I heard it costs $50,000 per run to field a fuel car - $200,000 a mile in operating costs. And it's boring. The paint jobs are the only way to tell the cars apart.

It was far more interesting and entertaining when a garage owner could build a winning car with maybe a bit of sponsorship from a local speed shop and a local kid (like Prudhomme) could win with it.

Remember 64 car AA/FD fields at Bakersfield? Almost all amateur?

Sometimes the G.O.D.'s really were better.

Then

image.png.5440ba6771614b19fb5840d7eaaae693.png

Now

image.png.cd424e297d4afb6f4f14f02b42403c2c.png

I know which I'd rather watch.

 

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54 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

I'd prefer they dial back the power in the Fuel cars and go back to 1/4 mile.

 

Not to totally derail the thread, but I would agree. All they had to do 12 years ago was pull back the power (restrictor plate or belt ratio) and everything would have been hunky-dory. 300mph is more than enough. Oh well, another sport killed by its own stupidity IMO.

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Yes - for the fuel cars - it was shortened because of inadequate shutdown room. Takes a while to stop from 330 MPH, even with a couple of parachutes.

Everyone else runs the traditional 1/4 mile.

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On 4/16/2020 at 3:54 PM, Raz'r said:

yes, a mega harbor, and no access to the cove for the guy with his 4ksb

Not to mention that TISC is used by US Sailing, the UC Berkeley Sailing Team, the Siebel Sailors Program, and TISC is also a good affordable sailing school. But what does any of that matter if billionaires don't have somewhere to park their 14th megayacht? 

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I'm sure that Bay Wests' toadies have told the City Council that, gosh...we looked around for someone to run the boatyard, but gee...we couldn't find anybody. I guess we can't have a boatyard, then...

...and the council members just smiled and said "Okay".

I'm sure it felt really good.

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On 4/18/2020 at 4:29 AM, SloopJonB said:

:lol: Yeah, that'll have a big effect on a bunch of politicians who just received huge donations or promises of future high paid jobs from the developers.

Back in the 70's we had the fastest drag strip in the world here at Mission. The provincial pols wanted to give the land to a fiberglass manufacturer to build a new plant. They convinced the strip owners to give up the property based on a promise they would provide an alternate site.

Decades later, the glass plant was long gone but still no alternate site - finally the strip people just built a new one nearby.

Promises from politicians. :lol: You must be very young.

They tried that in Sydney - relocate a rifle range that had been in place on a headland since at least WW2. Can't be bothered checking the exact date. Govt wanted to redevelop the land, promised a new range.

The range people went to court and got some form of ruling that the Govt had to make the new range available, *with* all permits WRT noise, backstop distance etc etc *before* they could take the existing range. Plus the new range couldn't be located some impossible distance away.

Funnily enough the existing range is still there & in use. The new range - who knows....

And some people wonder why we don't trust politicians.

FKT

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On 4/14/2020 at 6:02 PM, solosailor said:

500 more units    tax paying voters packed into that property so plenty more will achieve the dream of living "on" the water with excellent kayak access.

FIFY

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Funny how Owning your land and marina makes a difference when the politicians get greedy.

Oakland YC used to actually be in Oakland, and then the city fathers decided that they would like to have a nice marina with docks for their cronies to run.

So they refused to renew the lease and the night before the lease expired, the club moved it's floating docks, and ramps with boats insitu,  en-mass across the Estuary to Alameda, and re-installed them on purchased land with water rights. 

The next morning the city authorities came down to the site, expecting to start collecting rents and WTF? no docks, just some power, water hookups dangling on the shore side. 

Get Jim Jessie to tell the story, if you have a spare 30 minutes... 

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7 hours ago, LionessRacing said:

Funny how Owning your land and marina makes a difference when the politicians get greedy.

Oakland YC used to actually be in Oakland, and then the city fathers decided that they would like to have a nice marina with docks for their cronies to run.

So they refused to renew the lease and the night before the lease expired, the club moved it's floating docks, and ramps with boats insitu,  en-mass across the Estuary to Alameda, and re-installed them on purchased land with water rights. 

The next morning the city authorities came down to the site, expecting to start collecting rents and WTF? no docks, just some power, water hookups dangling on the shore side. 

Get Jim Jessie to tell the story, if you have a spare 30 minutes... 

That's an incredible story.  Moving my marina elsewhere would involve floating  cranes to get the floating docks over the pilings, major electrical and water disconnect/reconnect activities,  new shoreside gangways and piledriving that matches the holes in the floating docks, et. al.; months of deconstruction/reconstruction activities.  Especially suspect is the idea you could tow floating docks with the boats still tied up without them breaking up into a clusterfuck.

I've surfed the Interwebs and apparently your assertion has some history, the demands by the Port of Oakland caused relations to become strained so in January 1977, OYC members voted to abandon the Oakland property, move to Alameda and purchase Pacific Marina.  How many slips were involved? If more than a few dozen then it was not an overnight stealth operation, unless the contrary can be shown.

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16 minutes ago, solosailor said:

Brickyard Cove doesn't have many large dry slips.   I had to wait 3+ years to get the ONLY space my 30.75x10 boat plus trailer tongue to 34'.  

Other than Alameda and Brickyard, is there even a crane in the bay area that can handle your boat?

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14 hours ago, axolotl said:

Especially suspect is the idea you could tow floating docks with the boats still tied up without them breaking up into a clusterfuck.

I've surfed the Interwebs and apparently your assertion has some history, the demands by the Port of Oakland caused relations to become strained so in January 1977, OYC members voted to abandon the Oakland property, move to Alameda and purchase Pacific Marina.  How many slips were involved? If more than a few dozen then it was not an overnight stealth operation, unless the contrary can be shown.

Your assertion is based on your own limited capability, don't apply that to others.

The move was about 400 yrds at slack tide across the Estuary, using I believe flashlight signals to the boats on the ends that provided propulsion. I was not out of college at the time, and would arrive at OYC in 2007 so I'm relying on the testimony of those that did the deed. 

Of course there was preparatory work but disconnecting from the shore was a matter of a few bolts on the ramps (~ 7 ft tide) , hoses and cables. I don't recall if they cut the pilings below water in advance or just what, ask Jim for details. 

Currently there are 7 fingers each with about 25 or so slips, depending on size. What the size was at the time of the move was probably a bit smaller with fewer boats. 

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Other than Alameda and Brickyard, is there even a crane in the bay area that can handle your boat?

Brickyard can't even as they limit their crane to 4500 (even though I've heard it's rated higher).  I have to take the outboard, etc. off to make weight to haul out.   Also the crane at BYC is not high enough to use my 4-point harness to be able to do the lift in one step.   I've got a single point that starts lifting the keel and then a 3-point that picks up the hull once the keep is up.   Can't do this at BYC so it's singlehanded it's a 5-7 trip up and down the gangway to make it happen.   It used to take me 10 minutes solo to launch.   Now I'm the asshat taking to long at the hoist.

I've heard the crane at the San Francisco Yacht Club is large enough but that of course requires joining the yacht club ($$$$) plus the dry storage fee.....   I would imagine they are not in line with Richmond Yacht Club's rates.  I'm going to be looking into that as I've made the move to the North Bay this last week. Treasure Island is 2t and shallow draft.  Encinal YC has one but the Azzura can't physically fit in the yard and the hoist piers aren't rated for >2 ton.  Basically there is now only ONE dry storage hoist in the east bay for public use.

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1 hour ago, solosailor said:

Brickyard can't even as they limit their crane to 4500 (even though I've heard it's rated higher).  I have to take the outboard, etc. off to make weight to haul out.   Also the crane at BYC is not high enough to use my 4-point harness to be able to do the lift in one step.   I've got a single point that starts lifting the keel and then a 3-point that picks up the hull once the keep is up.   Can't do this at BYC so it's singlehanded it's a 5-7 trip up and down the gangway to make it happen.   It used to take me 10 minutes solo to launch.   Now I'm the asshat taking to long at the hoist.

I've heard the crane at the San Francisco Yacht Club is large enough but that of course requires joining the yacht club ($$$$) plus the dry storage fee.....   I would imagine they are not in line with Richmond Yacht Club's rates.  I'm going to be looking into that as I've made the move to the North Bay this last week. Treasure Island is 2t and shallow draft.  Encinal YC has one but the Azzura can't physically fit in the yard and the hoist piers aren't rated for >2 ton.  Basically there is now only ONE dry storage hoist in the east bay for public use.

This is going to sound like a crazy idea, but have you considered an AirDock? I had my F-24 on one for a year or so at the Benicia marina. It worked great. Since you can lift your keel and rudder, the only thing in the water might be the bottom of the bulb (maybe).

https://www.airdock.com

image.thumb.png.99a0651902b3100f2df827e1ec2e421f.png

image.thumb.png.0723755316ccb48dd2309673e2418222.png

...and then there is always, please forgive me, bottom paint.

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The thing is, a 3-ton hoist is not that expensive.   The Jib crane itself is well < $10K....

https://www.hoistsdirect.com/shop/2409

The electric hoist is also <$5K

https://www.hoistsdirect.com/shop/225.

$12,000 for a brand new 3-ton hoist. Double that, to install it. Still $25,000 would put a brand new hoist in and $25,000 is chump change to Bay West.

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On 4/17/2020 at 12:29 PM, SloopJonB said:

I'd prefer they dial back the power in the Fuel cars and go back to 1/4 mile.

Make them go back to 6-71 blowers for example. :D cut them back to 2000 or 3000 HP.

Dragging has always been about quick and not fast - there is no need for them to peak over 300 for the spectacle to be the same.

They were a hell of a lot more interesting back in the 60's when they were only doing 200 or so. Now the car and driver have very little to do with it - the crew chief who guesses best at the combination VS conditions is all that determines who wins now.

Last I heard it costs $50,000 per run to field a fuel car - $200,000 a mile in operating costs. And it's boring. The paint jobs are the only way to tell the cars apart.

It was far more interesting and entertaining when a garage owner could build a winning car with maybe a bit of sponsorship from a local speed shop and a local kid (like Prudhomme) could win with it.

Remember 64 car AA/FD fields at Bakersfield? Almost all amateur?

Sometimes the G.O.D.'s really were better.

Then

image.png.5440ba6771614b19fb5840d7eaaae693.png

Now

image.png.cd424e297d4afb6f4f14f02b42403c2c.png

I know which I'd rather watch.

 

A modified Tesla sedan would probably beat them all.  

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55 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

A modified Tesla sedan would probably beat them all.  

Probably, but remember the first guy to go 200mph? He isn't dead (yet) and he's got the electric drill mounted to a dragster frame. The future?

But let's face it, this is pure badass

 

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12 hours ago, LionessRacing said:

Your assertion is based on your own limited capability, don't apply that to others.

The move was about 400 yrds at slack tide across the Estuary, using I believe flashlight signals to the boats on the ends that provided propulsion. I was not out of college at the time, and would arrive at OYC in 2007 so I'm relying on the testimony of those that did the deed. 

Of course there was preparatory work but disconnecting from the shore was a matter of a few bolts on the ramps (~ 7 ft tide) , hoses and cables. I don't recall if they cut the pilings below water in advance or just what, ask Jim for details. 

Currently there are 7 fingers each with about 25 or so slips, depending on size. What the size was at the time of the move was probably a bit smaller with fewer boats. 

I'm buying the story now but interested in the mechanics of cutting off the pilings which is a bear to accomplish.  The record shows it was done, so a quick compliment from Jim would suffice.

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Seriously, not going PA on all of you, but you get the leaders you vote for. Be informed. Vote for a pro-boater, or look where the candidates money comes from. Th eBay Area marine/boatyard scene is getting smaller and smaller and becoming so hyper regulated it is gettin cheaper to sail to Mexico to get a bottom job. If we want what we want, be informed consumers.

Most people spend more time researching a vacation than an investment choice or a candidate for office.

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We’re kinda F’ed. It’s a damn nice place to live, and folks have rediscovered the bay. Not to play on, but to drive real estate returns.

our club is in full lockdown, but of course the county is auditing compliance. Why? It’s on a premium piece of dirt. Anything to yank licenses would be used. 
 

Us boaters are passionate, but don’t have the pockets of the developers. To them, lawsuits and bludgeoning city councils are just a cost of doing business. 

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15 hours ago, Raz'r said:

We’re kinda F’ed. It’s a damn nice place to live, and folks have rediscovered the bay. Not to play on, but to drive real estate returns.

our club is in full lockdown, but of course the county is auditing compliance. Why? It’s on a premium piece of dirt. Anything to yank licenses would be used. 
 

Us boaters are passionate, but don’t have the pockets of the developers. To them, lawsuits and bludgeoning city councils are just a cost of doing business. 

Our yacht club (really a privately owned business) has been in negotiations with the county over the lease agreement and having to make several concessions to property use.  All, the while, one of the biggest developers in the county is watching on waiting to snap up as much property as possible for the new gen of low rise high rises!

 

 

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This is going to sound like a crazy idea, but have you considered an AirDock?

After Alameda Marina kicked me out I wet sailed out of Grand Marina.   Was paying $150 monthly at AM.   Paid $325 for the wet slip plus $75 mo. to store the trailer.   My boat did have Baltoplate and I refreshed that twice in the few years I was there.   The first year I paid almost $2k in bottom cleanings and when I raced to Monterey, etc. I had to pay a yard $300-350 for the one-way launch from the trailer.   So I stopped doing the Delta Ditch and Spinnaker Cup because a one day race was up to $500.    I also bought a pony tank and wetsuit and cleaned the bottom twice a month after that myself which kept the static cost to own, but not use the boat, to $500 w/insurance & taxes plus the new bottom paint almost yearly so add another $50-100 monthly for that.    Dry sailing at BYC has dropped the storage down to $160, no diving, no new bottom paint, no fees to relaunch after a distance race, no separate trailer storage fees.    So something like the Airdock or the like which is $3-5k depending on used/new and the pain to operate, etc. would take a long time to justify and I still would be paying for a slip, trailer storage, etc.    Still considering selling the boat.

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Solo, after this next Hawaii run, I'm leaving the boat in the Islands. If I get a few thousand bucks for it, that's great, I'll put the money into the Piper. If I have to donate it, then so be it.  It's maybe a $7K boat, maybe $8K if I moved it to the Great Lakes and tried to sell it. It makes zero sense to spend another grand on a trailer and then ten more to ship it back.

Once that race is over, I'll never have another boat in the water, again. It's just too damned much money. I love to sail, but sailing is not the only thing in my life.  The Piper is old, slow, cheap, pretty, and well under 4K pounds, so I can hoist-launch it more or less all over the Bay. I'm looking forward to having no electronics on the boat but the handheld VHF and the nav lights....Looking forward to paying $150 a month for storage and $300 a year for insurance and that's it.

As retirement gets closer, there comes a point where I gotta cut some expenses, and  dropping $5k a year on sailing is just too much.

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4K pounds, so I can hoist-launch it more or less all over the Bay.

If you join EYC you can maybe can in the estuary, same with SFYC in the North Bay.   Can you fit at TI?   Brickyard, yes.     Where are these "all over the bay" places with 2 ton hoist launch?   Anything in SF?    Anything public in the east bay south of Brickyard, no.  Southbay?   

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Well, "all over" is a bit of an exaggeration.... But more than if she weighed 4501 pounds, in which case there's nothing at all .  Yes, can fit at TI, I've asked already.  If nothing else serves, I can actually ramp-launch the boat with a 6-8 cylinder truck, though I would sure rather not.

 

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21 hours ago, solosailor said:

After Alameda Marina kicked me out I wet sailed out of Grand Marina.   Was paying $150 monthly at AM.   Paid $325 for the wet slip plus $75 mo. to store the trailer.   My boat did have Baltoplate and I refreshed that twice in the few years I was there.   The first year I paid almost $2k in bottom cleanings and when I raced to Monterey, etc. I had to pay a yard $300-350 for the one-way launch from the trailer.   So I stopped doing the Delta Ditch and Spinnaker Cup because a one day race was up to $500.    I also bought a pony tank and wetsuit and cleaned the bottom twice a month after that myself which kept the static cost to own, but not use the boat, to $500 w/insurance & taxes plus the new bottom paint almost yearly so add another $50-100 monthly for that.    Dry sailing at BYC has dropped the storage down to $160, no diving, no new bottom paint, no fees to relaunch after a distance race, no separate trailer storage fees.    So something like the Airdock or the like which is $3-5k depending on used/new and the pain to operate, etc. would take a long time to justify and I still would be paying for a slip, trailer storage, etc.    Still considering selling the boat.

Ugh.  Committing to go for a swim in the Estuary every 2 weeks year round, no matter what would get old fast

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On 4/21/2020 at 9:43 AM, solosailor said:

After Alameda Marina kicked me out I wet sailed out of Grand Marina.   Was paying $150 monthly at AM.   Paid $325 for the wet slip plus $75 mo. to store the trailer.   My boat did have Baltoplate and I refreshed that twice in the few years I was there.   The first year I paid almost $2k in bottom cleanings and when I raced to Monterey, etc. I had to pay a yard $300-350 for the one-way launch from the trailer.   So I stopped doing the Delta Ditch and Spinnaker Cup because a one day race was up to $500.    I also bought a pony tank and wetsuit and cleaned the bottom twice a month after that myself which kept the static cost to own, but not use the boat, to $500 w/insurance & taxes plus the new bottom paint almost yearly so add another $50-100 monthly for that.    Dry sailing at BYC has dropped the storage down to $160, no diving, no new bottom paint, no fees to relaunch after a distance race, no separate trailer storage fees.    So something like the Airdock or the like which is $3-5k depending on used/new and the pain to operate, etc. would take a long time to justify and I still would be paying for a slip, trailer storage, etc.    Still considering selling the boat.

Sorry man. Thought you were still over at Alameda. Good thing they kicked you out.

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It's  liability control that is the biggest cost involved in a crane. One clown screws up & injures someone and the costs are now in the millions.

Well the "wonder wheel" hand powered hoist at Brickyard is a hazard.   

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For what it's worth: OYC has slips in the smaller sizes. Not sure what the tariff for them is, for a "44 ft" slip that's comfortable with my 12' beam plus the dues, plus the Galley minimum we are running about $600/month. Add another $100 or so for diver in season and a quadrennial haul that's been averaging $10k for miscellaneous work including a $2k bottom. Then again it's a 40' 20,000 lb nearly 60 yr old boat. Just about $1k/month for a hobby when you amortize insurance, sails, entry fees and bar tab for the crew. 

Smaller boat (we had a Merit 25 at the same time) was << half of that. 

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On 4/20/2020 at 8:21 AM, solosailor said:

Brickyard can't even as they limit their crane to 4500 (even though I've heard it's rated higher).  I have to take the outboard, etc. off to make weight to haul out.   Also the crane at BYC is not high enough to use my 4-point harness to be able to do the lift in one step.   I've got a single point that starts lifting the keel and then a 3-point that picks up the hull once the keep is up.   Can't do this at BYC so it's singlehanded it's a 5-7 trip up and down the gangway to make it happen.   It used to take me 10 minutes solo to launch.   Now I'm the asshat taking to long at the hoist.

I've heard the crane at the San Francisco Yacht Club is large enough but that of course requires joining the yacht club ($$$$) plus the dry storage fee.....   I would imagine they are not in line with Richmond Yacht Club's rates.  I'm going to be looking into that as I've made the move to the North Bay this last week. Treasure Island is 2t and shallow draft.  Encinal YC has one but the Azzura can't physically fit in the yard and the hoist piers aren't rated for >2 ton.  Basically there is now only ONE dry storage hoist in the east bay for public use.

Bottom paint. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 4/17/2020 at 12:29 PM, SloopJonB said:

 Now the car and driver have very little to do with it - the crew chief who guesses best at the combination VS conditions is all that determines who wins now.

Driver still very important. It is the reaction time and the ability to have your reflexes in sync with the christmas tree. Crew chief dialing in the fuel/air ratio and getting the tires to hook up is critical, but the driver still super important.

Last drags I went to was the Winternationals somewhere between 2000 - 2005. My dad and I got to be guests of Wally Parks in his starting line suite. We could walk right out to where the guy controls the christmas tree. Seriously awesome access!

When the TF and FC light off, the sound pressure rearranges your internal organs. Your bones resonate.

In the mid-'60s, we would often eat Sunday supper outside in the foothills of Arcadia, CA. As the air cooled (higher density) we could clearly hear the top fuelers in their final rounds at Irwindale, 7 miles away as the crow flies. My memory fails, but I remember the times being in the neighborhood of 7 seconds and 200 mph.

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Bottom paint. 

Boats got that.....  I just don't want to have to replace it annualy and clean it constantly, pay $350 every time I want to relaunch after a race away, etc.   It's a shame an area with millions of people and lots of marinas there are only dozens, not hundreds of dry storage spaces available.    

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13 hours ago, Frank White said:

Alameda Marina's latest trick is to no longer supply water and power to liveaboards at least the one on the eastern side the marina. They got that notice earlier this week. 

Not a whole lot folks can do about that. Raising high holy hell with the city will get nothing.  It's pretty clear that what Poland wants is a neat, clean marina full of Big Yachts, for their condo buyers to look out on.

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I'm sure he doesn't give a shit about the marina as he won't make money off that....   only the 500 townhome units to crowd Clement.   The land lease specifically talks about water access, etc.   He will not comply until forced to via lawsuit.     

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1 hour ago, solosailor said:

I'm sure he doesn't give a shit about the marina as he won't make money off that....   only the 500 780 townhome units to crowd Clement.   The land lease specifically talks about water access, etc.   He will not comply until forced to via lawsuit.     

Fixed it to represent the actual number.

-MH

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Thats a lot of property tax....   no wonder the city counsel sits and spins.   To bad they don't care about the useable waterfront that WAS a large part of Alameda's past and charm.

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I noticed, with disgust, that in the latest Latitude, The yard at Grand Marina was advertising itself as the only boatyard in Alameda, now. 

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The city of Alameda allowed this to happen to get their pathway around the island and to get more property tax. 

Tenants of the marina were promised new working space years before any action by Bay West was taken, only to be given notice to vacate.

What used to be a one stop repair center and service for everything boat related is no more. 

Thanks Alameda City Council and Bay West Development for lying to everyone

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On 4/19/2020 at 10:03 PM, bhyde said:

Other than Alameda and Brickyard, is there even a crane in the bay area that can handle your boat?

5-6 ton cranes are a dime a dozen in Texas, which is chock full of 30' deep army corps of engineers lake/resivors. I was really surprised to see no cranes in the bay area when I moved out here. I've walked past more than my fair share of 1-2 ton cranes near the commerical fisherman areas of the waterfront but nothing heavy duty

I heard a rumour brickyard cove has a crane big enough to move a J/92 but you can't dry sail a J/105 with that crane

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