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Save the USPS !!


AJ Oliver

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Few people are aware of how important the US Postal Service is to the 

functioning of our society. (See book, How the Post Office Created America). 

Lining it up for destruction and/or privatization is most likely the most dysfunctional 

and evil thing that the Drump has done. 

This goes way beyond mail-in voting. 

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/04/13/trump-threatens-postal-service-amid-pandemic-saveusps-urges-bulk-stamp-purchases-and

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One way to help restore the USPS to health would be to bring back postal banking - 

which we actually had until 1971, believe it or not. 

I'm counting on Liz Warren to get it done. It was part of her platform. 

It could serve many of those who are currently unbanked, of which there are many. 

The Federal Reserve estimated there are 55 million unbanked or underbanked adult Americans in 2018, which account for 22 percent of U.S. households. One report found the nationwide rates to be 7.7% unbanked and 17.9% underbanked, with the most unbanked state Mississippi, at 16.4%.

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Save the USPS. Agreed.

It's the glue that ties our nation together across politics, across income classes, across regions, ideas, education and ambition.

And President Trump may be yet another pawn in this attempted and arguably hostile takeover of the U.S. Postal Service, but it's been in the works for years and many have attempted and so-far failed . It might actually finally happen during this quarantine. But I think we are sufficiently aware of the danger of losing our Lovely Postal Bride, that we will do what's right and finally put a ring on her finger.

Oh, shit, I'm turning into Normy, I'm about to move this response to the other USPS thread. http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?/topic/212346-usps-going-private/&tab=comments#comment-6841922

Whew ... I burped out some stale beer and the feeling went away. In the words of Rick Yukon mocking Dwight Eisenhower on the golf course before he was imprisoned for the United Crushing Corporation's failure to properly vet his credentials as a steam pressure engineer; "you can get anything done as long as you let someone else take the credit for it."

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Why would anyone want to dispose of the USPS? (Aside from vote tampering, and inconveniencing lower income people)

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the post office , should be modernize , to say the least,, no it should be put out of business , just be made more efficent ,

do we really mail every day to get a box full of junk mail, ? maybe junk mail should all come one day a week ,and be charged full rate!                                 but  regular mail is slow as shit, ?     Go to a 3 , 4, or five day work week, elimating overtime for the 6th day, tell me is there really any mail you need on saturday?that would cut down on the work force , overtime , sick time and vacations   and then .There pensions ( from friends that are for the USPS) are out of line with many industries , maybe go to a 401 K system ?                                                      I go to the local UPS , I get greeted with a warm friendly smiling face, and I'm in and out in a couple of minutes. Go to the local post office there's always line and just when you turn to go, that teller goes on a break! They usually have a frown and act like it's pain to do their job ,   If you hate your job that much quit and  be happy, and please don't go postal!                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      

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My post office here in Cow town N. Fl. is great. They're friendly, they make a second trip out to my place (10 miles) if I have something that comes in late, but can't wait for tomorrow (Chicks, bees, saplings). FEDEX on the other hand is useless. They've left live (not so much after 5 hours out in the Fl. sun) lobsters and frozen Omaha steaks to rot by my gate post a quarter mile from my house, even though there's a sign there saying not to leave pkgs there. UPS is good, but they can be slow.

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The Reich hates the USPS because it is a major part of the glue . . 

that holds our society - such as it is - together. 

And they also hate it because (like the VA) it works. 

It is a living, breathing contradiction to their dumb-ass ideology. 

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I'm sure David Brin has been mentioned here before, but yeah.

brin_postman.jpg

Basic glue. Trump has shattered a lot of glue lines. Are there any real patriots left in the US government at any high level? How bad is the rot?

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38 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

I'm sure David Brin has been mentioned here before, but yeah.

brin_postman.jpg

Basic glue. Trump has shattered a lot of glue lines. Are there any real patriots left in the US government at any high level? How bad is the rot?

I thought the original Sci Fi book was better; it really caught the USPS spirit of 

"Neither snow nor rain nor heat nor gloom of night" 

The Kostner flick was well intended, but did not nail it. 

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2 hours ago, AJ Oliver said:

I thought the original Sci Fi book was better; it really caught the USPS spirit of 

"Neither snow nor rain nor heat nor gloom of night" 

The Kostner flick was well intended, but did not nail it. 

I couldn't find any screen shots from the book. I have to admit, I haven't seen the flick.

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8 hours ago, Mrleft8 said:

Why would anyone want to dispose of the USPS? (Aside from vote tampering, and inconveniencing lower income people)

Dispose? BUY Motherfucker!

Why buy? Because it's the jewel in the American crown, and it owns and controls some of the most valuable real estate in the country. FedEx and UPS would have been happy to nip off chunks of it back in the 1980s and 1990s, but it wasn't until Amazon came in with big data that they figured out how to buy the USPS without actually owning the unprofitable portions.

 

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3 hours ago, AJ Oliver said:

The Reich hates the USPS because it is a major part of the glue . . 

that holds our society - such as it is - together. 

And they also hate it because (like the VA) it works. 

It is a living, breathing contradiction to their dumb-ass ideology. 

The VA does work, I agree with you that it's that contradiction.

But the reason the USPS is now ripe for privatization is because it does not work. Amazon, UPS, FedEx, DHL and other carriers have used the USPS's quasi status to buy chunks of their logistics in bulk. Amazon will buy just the last mile, and the front -end 10% for pennies on the dollar, and then they'll bulk process the expensive stuff in their own facilities and with lowest-bidder LTL transport.

The problem with the USPS is that it's not a contradiction to their "dumb-ass ideology but rather a victim of it; they; they can't afford to run their package business without their letter-business-infrastructure and they can't afford to run their letter-business without their package-business-profits. Amazon doesn't want to own the unprofitable part, they just want the valuable stuff. So if we allow the USPS to be privatized then no magic will magically happen with the USPS letter-business costs. Rather, our mail will follow the Amazon model. If you live far enough away from the access point and want your mail you can join Prime and get it for free, or you can pay per delivery.

 

Your "Reich" shit is getting really old. You're undermining your whole position with that bullshit.

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7 hours ago, Cristoforo said:

USPS is a social program. 

I don’t want 98 pct of the crap they bring me. Mostly junk mail. 

I would  be fine with once or twice  per week delivery 

And the dickhead postman leaves Marlboro butts on the ground near the box. 

The USPS is not a social program, it's the blood that allows industries to operate.

Given that, your idea is right on target. Delivery on Monday and Thursday only is sufficient unless you really want it every day, and then you can hire a private delivery service to do the dailies.

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8 hours ago, Not for nothing said:

the post office , should be modernize , to say the least,, no it should be put out of business , just be made more efficent ,

do we really mail every day to get a box full of junk mail, ? maybe junk mail should all come one day a week ,and be charged full rate!                                 but  regular mail is slow as shit, ?     Go to a 3 , 4, or five day work week, elimating overtime for the 6th day, tell me is there really any mail you need on saturday?that would cut down on the work force , overtime , sick time and vacations   and then .There pensions ( from friends that are for the USPS) are out of line with many industries , maybe go to a 401 K system ?                                                      I go to the local UPS , I get greeted with a warm friendly smiling face, and I'm in and out in a couple of minutes. Go to the local post office there's always line and just when you turn to go, that teller goes on a break! They usually have a frown and act like it's pain to do their job ,   If you hate your job that much quit and  be happy, and please don't go postal!                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      

"Junk mail" is some of the most profitable mail that runs through the USPS. It comes in often presorted, pre-classed and with defined zones.

You don't need to wait on line at the Post Office if it bothers you. Use the automatic machine or your Pitney Bowes meter, or Stamps.com. (The latter is actually an aggregator, they might even use Amazon's infrastructure.)

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You folks are not nearly skeptical or cynical enough. 

You don't seem to grasp that the US Reich has the entire "administrative state" lined up for privatization 

Their stated goal is to abolish and grab all of it. 

National Weather Service, National Parks, Vets Admin, public schools, NASA, OSHA, National Forrests & Federal Lands 

Not only the USPS - that is only the beginning 

Somalia, inspired by your shining example, here we come

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12 minutes ago, AJ Oliver said:

You folks are not nearly skeptical or cynical enough. 

You don't seem to grasp that the US Reich has the entire "administrative state" lined up for privatization 

Their stated goal is to abolish and grab all of it. 

National Weather Service, National Parks, Vets Admin, public schools, NASA, OSHA, National Forrests & Federal Lands 

Not only the USPS - that is only the beginning 

Somalia, inspired by your shining example, here we come

Uh, we were discussing exact thing long before you came along with this thread.

The USPS is a particularly ripe tomato because there is a buyer, there is the intent, and there is the existing quasi status.

I've no doubt that there are other efforts of privatization, but this effort is here now.

Do you know the single thing you can do with your money to help avoid this?

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11 hours ago, mikewof said:

But the reason the USPS is now ripe for privatization is because it does not work.

Your "Reich" shit is getting really old. You're undermining your whole position with that bullshit.

You seem to be quite uninformed about the USPS - the main reason why it is in trouble is deliberate and purposeful sabotage by the Reich; being required to pre-fund health care benefits 75 years out - for millions of future employees who have not even been born yet. (rolled back in February, but the damage was done by then) 

And I rather like that my use of the word "Reich" and its derivations drives you bonkers. I want it to. 

What other term would you suggest for someone who cares more about kinda snarky labels than they do about vote suppression ? (i.e., you) 

And how would you compare my civility with that of the Drumph ? (see below) 

You could always ignore me - please? 

 In a disturbing new series of tweets, President Trump on Friday urged Americans to “liberate” three U.S. states that are run by Democratic governors amid protests over coronavirus shutdowns. The three tweets took aim at Minnesota, Michigan, and Virginia. “LIBERATE VIRGINIA, and save your great 2nd Amendment. It is under siege!”

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I looked up troll in dictionary and it said: "And I rather like that my use of the word "Reich" and its derivations drives you bonkers. I want it to. "

AJ, you're a pompous old fool. I intend to downvote you each time you use the term. All your other dumb opinions are ok -- free country and all -- but the Reich thing labels you as an Antifa, and exactly as militant and ignorant as the Reichsters. Far worse considering your supposed lofty (and widely published) expertise. And note, if you show a pic of the guys in German uniforms, call them what you will. But the term doesn't apply to anyone here. You've already been unable to back that up. 

Up yer game antifa mofo. 

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Trump’s tweets about “liberating” MI, MN, and VA.

sounds perilously close to sedition to me

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17 minutes ago, cmilliken said:

The post office is a good and useful service.  It's fine. Supported the petition.

Agreed and supported. 

And another vote for somebody to drop the Reich crap. I mean give it a rest already.

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50 minutes ago, d'ranger said:

And another vote for somebody to drop the Reich crap. I mean give it a rest already.

If you and Crab can suggest an alternative label to use - one that is equally or even more disrespectful,  

I'll be glad to consider it. 

And by the way, I have previously explained at length why the US Right can appropriately be referred to as the "Reich" 

I used the commonly understood philosophical pillars of fascism - from the Fuhrerprinzip, to the racist, militaristic, anti-intellectual, authoritarian, irrationalistic ideas behind fascism 

It totally fits. 

And thanks for your support of our beloved USPS - and remind them to bring back postal banking while they are about it. 

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It just doesn't help - it's like not Republicans are Nazis but all Nazis are Republicans.  Using the big brush doesn't help.  When the right paints everyone else as socialist or commies it's kind of the same thing. 

I just signed another petition by a different group to save USPS as well.

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1 hour ago, Blue Crab said:

 -- but the Reich thing labels you as an Antifa, and exactly as militant and ignorant as the Reichsters.

Up yer game antifa mofo. 

Ooooohhh - the dreaded "down vote". Whatever shall I do? 

And I am rather fond of Antifa - and admire the way they stand up to the modern US Reich. 

At Charlottesville, a number of religious folks, not radicals by any means, credited Antifa with saving their lives from an approaching Nazi mob. 

I strongly suspect that at least some of the alleged incidents of Antifa mis-behavior were false flag ops by FAUX News and the Reich. 

In general, if you think that Antifa's actions are in any way whatsoever comparable to those of the Reich, you are really badly misinformed. 

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2 minutes ago, d'ranger said:

It just doesn't help - it's like not Republicans are Nazis but all Nazis are Republicans.  Using the big brush doesn't help.  When the right paints everyone else as socialist or commies it's kind of the same thing. 

Your comment is a bit unclear, but I think I agree. 

I don't think I ever wrote that all Republicans are of the Reich. Many of them are not. 

But the one's who support and enable the Drumph ?  Yep 

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3 minutes ago, AJ Oliver said:

Your comment is a bit unclear, but I think I agree. 

I don't think I ever wrote that all Republicans are of the Reich. Many of them are not. 

But the one's who support and enable the Drumph ?  Yep 

Most of those I know who support Trump are not well educated and watch FOX or listen to the RW nutjobs on AM radio and/or all their friends do. Many grew up voting R and would vote for Bozo the Con if he were the R guy (was a joke before Trump won, now not so funny).  They are mostly older and afraid of change - changing demographics and seeing the American Dream go down the toilet and believing those who tell them it's all the fault of the liberals. Hardly makes them the Reich in my opinion.  I won't bring it up again.

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2 minutes ago, d'ranger said:

Most of those I know who support Trump are not well educated and watch FOX or listen to the RW nutjobs on AM radio and/or all their friends do. Many grew up voting R and would vote for Bozo the Con if he were the R guy (was a joke before Trump won, now not so funny).  They are mostly older and afraid of change - changing demographics and seeing the American Dream go down the toilet and believing those who tell them it's all the fault of the liberals. Hardly makes them the Reich in my opinion.  I won't bring it up again.

Good point, but if they are like political scientists, most of them would cheerfully stuff screaming humans into giant furnaces . . 

if it meant they could score a grant or consultancy - (slight exaggeration alert) 

No, they are not that bad. I too know many of them, some in my family. 

Their minds have been poisoned by the lies of the Reich-Wing media. 

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14 hours ago, mikewof said:

"Junk mail" is some of the most profitable mail that runs through the USPS. It comes in often presorted, pre-classed and with defined zones.

 

If Junk mail is the big money maker ,why aren't they showing a profit? that's about 90% of what I get!

On Long Island , I would have a POB ( as they wouldn't delievered when it snowed?) but any how , at the POB building , there was a table to go thru your mail, next to the talbe was a huge Garbage can , at the end of the day it was full of junk mail, What a waste of paper  and wood to make that paper, SAVE A TREE!

Interesting enough I only get 2 bills a month that I pay with a stamp, most is done on line 

Another fun fact all postal workers I know love trrump and he's the one that won't give them $$$$$ , are they dump or what?

 

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1 hour ago, Not for nothing said:

If Junk mail is the big money maker ,why aren't they showing a profit? that's about 90% of what I get!

On Long Island , I would have a POB ( as they wouldn't delievered when it snowed?) but any how , at the POB building , there was a table to go thru your mail, next to the talbe was a huge Garbage can , at the end of the day it was full of junk mail, What a waste of paper  and wood to make that paper, SAVE A TREE!

Interesting enough I only get 2 bills a month that I pay with a stamp, most is done on line 

Another fun fact all postal workers I know love trrump and he's the one that won't give them $$$$$ , are they dump or what?

 

Singing to the choir Not for Nothing, I have become really good at recognizing junk mail by the typefaces on the outside of the envelope. I can usually tell which letters don't need to be opened. I suspect I threw away an actual check for a couple hundred bones a few years ago, but I've saved at least that much in not opening all my junk.

But there is always that one piece of junk mail that just makes my day. Have you ever received one of those? Like a little catalog of stainless steel fittings. I don't know where they got my name, but that made some excellent reading for a few weeks. Or the Uline catalog will do in the pinch. But back int he day, back when McMaster-Carr used to mail you an actual catalog, that was just Day of the King Sized Shits when the new McMaster Carr catalog came. You could disappear into the shitter with that behemoth, and when you emerged, so much time had passed that the company around your bathroom had fallen to the ground, apes and robots had enslaved all humans and even the inevitable slow cooker filled with deer chili had gone cold.

You show me any machine shop anywhere West of the Mississippi before the 1995, and somewhere, every time, there was a slow cooker filled with deer chili.

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1 hour ago, BravoBravo said:

The universal home delivery needs to be revisited . I can imagine post office box centers where you drive to to pick your mail. The infirm could request home delivery 

That's what Amazon would do away with if they take over. And I think that's the thing that's perhaps needed most.

When you live out in the sticks, a few hundred acres of nearly useless yucca land between you and your nearest neighbor, you'll wait by that mailbox for the delivery. It's the high point of your day You might have just sold a steer for enough to pay off the remaining note of your combine, but when that post delivery car comes by (it's often a private car with a USPS stencil when you're really out in the backcountry) when that post delivery car comes through, you look forward to whatever they deliver.

If we went to two times a week for hom delivery that would solve most of the costs, and it could allow a really good pathway to keep the full0-timers full time. They would sort on Monday, deliver on Tuesday, sort on Wednesday, deliver on Thursday, and then fill in the rest of their 40 hours with general pickup delivery, where the USPS can charge extra on nondelivery day.

I do agree with you that the elderly and infirm should get a good deal, but why not just allow rural deliveries to bundle up with other deliveries? They're already often contract and freelance anyway for rural delivery, by letting them go more flexible with the delivery schedule they could potentially keep a valuable service without needing to offload that cost to the USPS. Maybe for those, they don't get the pre-funded pensions, but there is no reason why they couldn't get a group-rate pension fund.

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3 hours ago, Blue Crab said:

I looked up troll in dictionary and it said: "And I rather like that my use of the word "Reich" and its derivations drives you bonkers. I want it to. "

AJ, you're a pompous old fool. I intend to downvote you each time you use the term. All your other dumb opinions are ok -- free country and all -- but the Reich thing labels you as an Antifa, and exactly as militant and ignorant as the Reichsters. Far worse considering your supposed lofty (and widely published) expertise. And note, if you show a pic of the guys in German uniforms, call them what you will. But the term doesn't apply to anyone here. You've already been unable to back that up. 

Up yer game antifa mofo. 

He's an okay guy, I like some of his lefty politics, but I agree that "Reich" should refer to a specific historical nightmare, and should not be watered down with the liberal application on anyone who is deemed sufficiently unlike us.

Real Americans fought and died to keep the real Reich from coming here. That means something unarguable and specific. The reality of one of the single darkest points in human history should not be turned into something with little more meaning than the meme of a kitten with a really cute Hitler mustache.

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5 minutes ago, mikewof said:

He's an okay guy, I like some of his lefty politics, but I agree that "Reich" should refer to a specific historical nightmare, and should not be watered down with the liberal application on anyone who is deemed sufficiently unlike us.

Real American fought and died to keep the real Reich from coming here. That means something unarguable and specific.

Yep and a genuinely ok guy would get that. To think of how often he's used that language in undergrad classes just pisses me off. It's Unamerican to foment dissension. And a firing offense for an educator. The downvote is a small thing. The least I can do.

And I confess I know nothing of the Antifa, nor am I interested. If they're as bad as the Rs, shoot them all. Prison wouldn't be rehabilitating for them; why waste the money?

 

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21 minutes ago, DustyDreamer said:
1 hour ago, Blue Crab said:

It's Unamerican to foment dissension

Seriously? Please tell me you are joking.

 

Quick! Spit out that hook! Do NOT swallow that bait!!

- DSK

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3 hours ago, mikewof said:

Real Americans fought and died to keep the real Reich from coming here. That means something unarguable and specific. 

So awright, can you give me a better term to describe those who 

cheerfully withhold food from children, or support the ones that do ? 

(or health care, or . . .) ? 

I'm just getting started y'all 

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24 minutes ago, AJ Oliver said:

So awright, can you give me a better term to describe those who 

cheerfully withhold food from children, or support the ones that do ? 

(or health care, or . . .) ? 

I'm just getting started y'all 

It's called "politics."

I used to work with some Fundamentalist Christians who were big G.W supporters, I suspect they would be Trump supporters today. But they got off their asses every summer and traveled with their church to places like Ghana, Uganda, Ivory Coast, partly to spread their gospel ... but they also had this pretty neat method where they shoved their two suitcases full of various lifesaving equipment, everything from plumbing valves and pumps to build wells, to medical supplies. Their carry-on bag was for their personal stuff. They traveled light. In one case, one family took the wrong malaria medicine with them and couldn't get the good stuff in Uganda and they lost their young daughter over there.

There were people that you essentially equate with Nazis, and yet their life's work was helping those who needed their help.

On the other hand, I knew a right cunt who was more lefty than I was, and he used every opportunity he could to insult those who didn't align with him. He did a whole lot of nothing with his life but talked a good game. I'll bet that if we confronted with a starving child in Haiti that he would help the child. But he didn't make any kind of effort to find himself in that position.

So what's the point of using any term to describe any of them? Why not just accept that some fundamentally different people than you may have your same ideals?

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9 hours ago, AJ Oliver said:

...

cheerfully withhold food from children, or support the ones that do ? 

(or health care, or . . .) ? 

...

And you figure the Rs here fit that because: 

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12 hours ago, mikewof said:

There were people that you essentially equate with Nazis, and yet their life's work was helping those who needed their help.

Oh sure. The "christians" decide who needs helping and go and impose their "help" on them. In exchange all you have to do is say you love the geebus and agree to give up a good chunk of your local culture and history so you can be "saved". This it he oldest con in the book. ISIS & the Taliban do this too.

Want a plumbing upgrade? Bow down before your new god!

It's disgusting. 

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4 hours ago, Blue Crab said:

And you figure the Rs here fit that because: 

denying food to children . . . 

Of course R's do that, and have for a long time; in addition to making food aid as burdensome and complicated as they are able. 

For health care it is even clearer . . "The number of children in the United States without health insurance jumped to 3.9 million in 2017 from about 3.6 million the year before, according to census data." 

And if you support that, or are silent about your party's machinations, you are partly responsible. 

Of course there are also some Dems that are also callous in this respect, and I have no problem calling them 

Reichistas either  

https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2019/12/trump-snap-food-stamps-cuts/603367/

Mr Crab - you should know this; I don't appreciate having to do your homework for you. 

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Just now, BravoBravo said:

everyone gets treated with or without health insurance

Complete and total bull-pucky. 

People with zero or craptastic health care seek treatment only when they are at death's door, 

which actually raises costs for all of us. 

The Reich won't even fess up to their own inhumanity. 

Shame on ya. 

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8 minutes ago, BravoBravo said:

everyone gets treated with or without health insurance

 There are approximately 2,800 local health departments across the United States.

That's a fuckin' lie

- DSK

 

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42 minutes ago, DustyDreamer said:

Oh sure. The "christians" decide who needs helping and go and impose their "help" on them. In exchange all you have to do is say you love the geebus and agree to give up a good chunk of your local culture and history so you can be "saved". This it he oldest con in the book. ISIS & the Taliban do this too.

Want a plumbing upgrade? Bow down before your new god!

It's disgusting. 

It's true for some of them, that missionary work was the most important. Some of them were basically Quakers, didn't even talk about religion that much.

But you're mistaken about a "plumbing upgrade." It was often just the most basic installs they could manage. Hand-dug wells, really simple chlorine treatment, septic. Basic clinic setup. 

They do help a lot of people, religion or not.

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8 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

That's a fuckin' lie

- DSK

 

It's not a lie. Every state has at least some laws that require treatment, regardless.

Of course, that care may be substandard and leave you in a homeless body bag when you could have been on your feet with some effective care, but you'll get at least a look and maybe a blood pressure cuff.

 

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8 minutes ago, mikewof said:

It's not a lie. Every state has at least some laws that require treatment, regardless.

I guess you are unfamiliar with patient dumping. 

Again, I'm doing your homework for you . .  Grrrrrr 

https://www.healthcaredive.com/news/patient-dumping-symptom-of-health-system-woes/516018/

By the early 1980s, only 22 states had passed anti-dumping statutes. It was later reported by lawyer Thomas L. Stricker in 1992 that during that time, hospitals across the country denied medical care to a quarter million patients annually because they were either uninsured or couldn't afford payments.

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This piece in Jacobin refelcts my sentiments on saving the USPS. Note to the PA haters, do not click on the link as it will not look good having a Jacobin click in the Reich's file.

https://jacobinmag.com/2020/04/united-states-postal-service-coronavirus-privatization

[Maybe the USPS could become the darling of the haters by selling ammo? Just a thought, many rural ZipCodes are underserved by gun shops.]

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8 minutes ago, El Boracho said:

This piece in Jacobin refelcts my sentiments on saving the USPS. Note to the PA haters, do not click on the link as it will not look good having a Jacobin click in the Reich's file.

https://jacobinmag.com/2020/04/united-states-postal-service-coronavirus-privatization

[Maybe the USPS could become the darling of the haters by selling ammo? Just a thought, many rural ZipCodes are underserved by gun shops.]

Good article - thanks for sharing it 

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57 minutes ago, AJ Oliver said:

Shame on ya. 

So the only thanks I get for doing Crab & Mikey's homework for them is a lousy down vote ? 

Boy, Gringolandia is a tough town !

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1 hour ago, BravoBravo said:

Go hang out at your local health department , they are jam packed every open hour with people getting ongoing health services, if they are "on deaths door" they go to the hospital for treatment....

And you see this as a good thing?

Emergency rooms are being shut down, from the financial burden of non-paying patients. "Local health department" (City? County? State?) also tend to not provide many many types of care, they focus on services important to the community (imagine that!).

What you're pointing to is a big part of why our system is broken, not how it works well. I guess if you think poor people should just die in the street, then it's great. If you like paying high insurance fees and high taxes to provide broken care to people who avoid paying (ObamaCare addressed this) then it's great. I would have thought you did not like paying for others' care but maybe I misjudged you, maybe you not only enjoy being charitable but like for the charity to be overcharging you and inefficiently administered.

- DSK

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33 minutes ago, BravoBravo said:

Obamakare was no different the public HC as it is now....folks with no money get it for free or next to nothing....any typical working stiff with a family or a single working stiff.....pays OUTRAGEOUS fees and deductible 

So, "next to nothing" is not free, is it? Is paying SOMETHING better than paying nothing?

Following one lie with another lie is not the way to figure out, or fix, what's wrong.

- DSK

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1 hour ago, BravoBravo said:

folks with no money get it for free or next to nothing

As usual, you are wrong. I know because as a farmer I made fuck all money and qualified for MediCal at one point and then subsidies through the Affordable Care Act. When I took a job later and was over that particular threshold for the subsidy I had to pay back the difference. $13,700.

Ever been on Medicare (or MediCal?). Don't dare get sick or injured (farming is a risky job). You can only go certain places and frankly the level of care is even worse than I've seen with employe health insurance.  

But of course you wouldn't know anything about all this. Let me guess, you are on Medicare? VA?

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30 minutes ago, BravoBravo said:

Typical employers HC, wife is still working, VA as a backup that I’ll only use as last resort. I go Medicare when wife retires. The system is fine, the big push for NHC is more about tax money going to the corrupt politicians than any genuine concern for the failures at the bottom

Wait, what? If Medicare is fine and VA is fine... how is national health care about tax money? And how would these politicians get this money? 

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9 minutes ago, DustyDreamer said:
40 minutes ago, BravoBravo said:

Typical employers HC, wife is still working, VA as a backup that I’ll only use as last resort. I go Medicare when wife retires. The system is fine, the big push for NHC is more about tax money going to the corrupt politicians than any genuine concern for the failures at the bottom

Wait, what? If Medicare is fine and VA is fine... how is national health care about tax money? And how would these politicians get this money? 

And just think about -this- for a minute.... he's not joking.

Yes, the average Trumpalo really -is- that fuckin' dumb. But being stupid isn't really all that bad. It's the mean-spiritedness, hypocrisy, and fondness for lies and bigotry that are really the problem.

- DSK

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5 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

. It's the mean-spiritedness, hypocrisy, and fondness for lies and bigotry that are really the problem.

- DSK

Tell it Steam, they want gummint HC only for themselves 

They feel empowered when others live badly 

And that is why we call them the Reich

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11 hours ago, AJ Oliver said:

Tell it Steam, they want gummint HC only for themselves 

They feel empowered when others live badly 

And that is why we call them the Reich

It's pretty much just you and your Nazi-hatin ilk, AJ. No one argues the mean-spiritedness, hypocrisy, and fondness for lies and bigotry. But that is hardly reserved for the neo-Nazis. This is your personal boner to caress.

In your hatefulness and name-calling, you identify yourself as a problem, not a solution; just another bullshitter with a mean streak. 

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1 hour ago, Blue Crab said:

It's pretty much just you and your Nazi-hatin ilk, AJ. No one argues the mean-spiritedness, hypocrisy, and fondness for lies and bigotry. But that is hardly reserved for the neo-Nazis. This is your personal boner to caress.

In your hatefulness and name-calling, you identify yourself as a problem, not a solution; just another bullshitter with a mean streak. 

I dunno, hating Nazis is a pretty rational reaction to them. For one thing, they want to be hated by certain other groups. It's part of their identity.

And I confess, I occasionally have a mean streak. I try to only use it for good, though

- DSK

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40 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

I dunno, hating Nazis is a pretty rational reaction to them. For one thing, they want to be hated by certain other groups. It's part of their identity.

And I confess, I occasionally have a mean streak. I try to only use it for good, though

- DSK

Doug, my reactions to AJ are based on his throwing that word around this forum. I don't think we have bona fide Reichistas here.  Yesterday, the complaint was that Rs "cheerfully" let kids starve. That doesn't fit anyone I'm aware of. You?

Most of us are too civilized to drive to Sandusky and slap AJ around a little, pleasant as that may sound. Plus, the second thing to happen would be AJ crying to the cops so you'd be in jail at least overnight. And it would cost money.

We all know our own AJs. 

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1 hour ago, Blue Crab said:

I don't think we have bona fide Reichistas here.  Yesterday, the complaint was that Rs "cheerfully" let kids starve. That doesn't fit anyone I'm aware of. You?

We may not have bona fide Reichistas here, but make no mistake, the mean-spiritedness is real and part of the point. It's palpable and justifiable because it's in the abstract. Few Trumpkins will visit immigrant detention centers to face those children ripped from their families so it's easy for them to say it's all for good reason. 

This type of thinking allowed Hitler to come to power and the Nazi regime to enact such cruelty - feeding into the abstract hate of an angry population. We love to feel we as Americans are exceptional and that it couldn't happen here. But we are simply not that many steps away from it right now. At all. Best we acknowledge and understand history, wouldn't you say?

Edit: To be clear(er) I don't particularly agree with the rhetorical device itself but very much agree with the reasoning behind it. 

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54 minutes ago, DustyDreamer said:
2 hours ago, Blue Crab said:

I don't think we have bona fide Reichistas here.  Yesterday, the complaint was that Rs "cheerfully" let kids starve. That doesn't fit anyone I'm aware of. You?

We may not have bona fide Reichistas here, but make no mistake, the mean-spiritedness is real and part of the point. It's palpable and justifiable because it's in the abstract. Few Trumpkins will visit immigrant detention centers to face those children ripped from their families so it's easy for them to say it's all for good reason. 

This type of thinking allowed Hitler to come to power and the Nazi regime to enact such cruelty - feeding into the abstract hate of an angry population. We love to feel we as Americans are exceptional and that it couldn't happen here. But we are simply not that many steps away from it right now. At all. Best we acknowledge and understand history, wouldn't you say?

Edit: To be clear(er) I don't particularly agree with the rhetorical device itself but very much agree with the reasoning behind it.  

We're certainly several steps down the ladder, and all those steps are pretty clear.

Given the full-throated defense of President Trump's cruel and in many case unConstitutional actions, I don't see any of our own SA/PA non-Trump-supporters ever objecting, which it will if present trends continue, to taking action for more "living room" or a final solution.

The statement about "cheerfully" letting kids starve is perhaps a bit of an overstatement, but there is certainly enthusiastic defense of policies of putting kids into very problematic situations, and shutting off food to kids is a very real and very known result of some Trumpian policies.

Remember, I'm the guy who confronts our Trump-non-supporters with the fact that they are on the road to

image.png.94706f17a588d8fa10e92166e79715f8.png

so I'm not worried about Trump and his supporters being permanent. When history sweeps them away, however it happens, there will be a lot less of them. The question I have is, what kind of country is going to be left behind them?

- DSK

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2 hours ago, Blue Crab said:

Most of us are too civilized to drive to Sandusky and slap AJ around a little, pleasant as that may sound.

Just try it, you Reich-Wing Nazi punk. 

You'll have 6' 3" of fightin' left wing fury waiting for you. 

You say you're "civilized", but not too civilized to threaten violence. 

2 hours ago, Blue Crab said:

cheerfully" let kids starve. That doesn't fit anyone I'm aware of. You?

It does indeed fit those who would promote or accept withholding food aid from families. 

As the US GOP (i.r., Reich) does routinely. 

Or their often successful efforts to block Medicade expansion - this withholding health care from children 

Or tossing migrant children in cages 

Those are Nazi policies 

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1 minute ago, Blue Crab said:

LOL

Many Reich-Wingers make the mistake of thinking that folks on the left are all pacifists. 

So they think they can threaten, bully and push us around. 

But we are by no means all pacifists, and they should refrain from making threats they are too cowardly to back up. 

My contempt and disdain for you grows daily. 

(I'm somewhat surprised that the mods have let you go down the physical threat road. I don't think I had any other honorable 

choice but to call you on it.) 

Bring it, you Reichista slime

 

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Round 1 to the Crab on points, the Professor has come out fighting even before the bell....

Gentlemen please don't swallow your smile protectors and keep all blows legal!

There is no referee, this is fuckin' Anarchy not "Politics Nicey-Nice"

- DSK

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My dear friends: 

I’m as tolerant as anyone when it comes to the First Amendment.  But even I have my limits.  Our resident retired Poli. Sci. Professor has gone off the deep end with few, if any, signs he can remove himself from the muck and mire he is in.  Effective immediately he is on ignore.

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3 minutes ago, jerseyguy said:

I’m as tolerant as anyone when it comes to the First Amendment.  But even I have my limits.  Our resident retired Poli. Sci. Professor has gone off the deep end with few, if any, signs he can remove himself from the muck and mire he is in.  Effective immediately he is on ignore.

So you are OK with the threats?

How would you suggest one act instead? 

(This is not the first one; earned one from TGITC a few weeks ago) 

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10 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

True, no cheer just cold malice 

Of course nobody here supports Trump. It’s just the Democrats are worse.

And, here I thought you were incapable of learning.

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3 hours ago, Blue Crab said:

Most of us are too civilized to drive to Sandusky and slap AJ around a little, pleasant as that may sound. Plus, the second thing to happen would be AJ crying to the cops so you'd be in jail at least overnight. And it would cost money.

Look, we all make mistakes. 

If you apologize for that thinly veiled threat, and vow that it will not be repeated, 

I will accept it. 

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We've got a tag for the Antifa, how about we start the  tag Dumbfu for trump supporters?

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Just now, timber said:

We've got a tag for the Antifa, how about we start the  tag Dumbfu for trump supporters?

Good idea - Dumbfu or Reichista? 

Lets take a vote - but curiously, I do not thing Crab is a Trumpista. 

But, I like the way you think 

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Hey Didja notice how that coward backed right off from his threats . . 

when someone stood up to his Reich-Wing Ass ? @Blue Crab

I wish it were not so, but that is about the only way to handle bullies . . 

I surely do wish we could get back to discussing the Reich's assault on the USPS, 

but I have had an authority problem all my life, and after I left the military, I promised myself 

that I would never, ever get bullied again. 

(I offered him a truce - he declined. So be it) 

@Blue Crab

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10 minutes ago, AJ Oliver said:

Hey Didja notice how that coward backed right off from his threats . . 

when someone stood up to his Reich-Wing Ass ? @Blue Crab

I wish it were not so, but that is about the only way to handle bullies . . 

I surely do wish we could get back to discussing the Reich's assault on the USPS, 

but I have had an authority problem all my life, and after I left the military, I promised myself 

that I would never, ever get bullied again. 

(I offered him a truce - he declined. So be it) 

@Blue Crab

AJ, in all sincerity...shut the fuck up.

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2 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

AJ, in all sincerity...shut the fuck up.

How about if you attempt to make a coherent point  . . 

Or do you want me to sail over to Tasmania and kick your sorry-assed Ozzie kiester?  (Humor alert - not a threat) 

(Did I get that even a little bit right? Maybe the "sorry-assed" part? Tas-land? Sail?) 

 

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3 minutes ago, AJ Oliver said:

How about if you attempt to make a coherent point  . . 

Or do you want me to sail over to Tasmania and kick your sorry-assed Ozzie kiester?  (Humor alert - not a threat) 

(Did I get that even a little bit right? Maybe the "sorry-assed" part? Tas-land? Sail?) 

 

Fer fucks sake. Sure, I'll meet you on my front porch in Tasmania. Keep on keepin' on.

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1 minute ago, Ishmael said:

Fer fucks sake. Sure, I'll meet you on my front porch in Tasmania. Keep on keepin' on.

OK, so "sorry-assed" is is. 

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8 hours ago, AJ Oliver said:

How about if you attempt to make a coherent point  . . 

Or do you want me to sail over to Tasmania and kick your sorry-assed Ozzie kiester?  (Humor alert - not a threat) 

(Did I get that even a little bit right? Maybe the "sorry-assed" part? Tas-land? Sail?) 

 

Thanks for the try Ish, and for supportive others.

This is a good example of someone who isn't playing with a full deck, and fixer-that-I-try-to-be, I can't fix this. AJ is not here to interact but to just blow his own widely published horn.

I'd been wondering about the tenor of the group, and I've noticed a couple of negative responses which I read as me taking myself too seriously. Fair enough. It's anarchy after all. 

 

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Just for the record, Crab's quote at the bottom of his "Missives" is a fabrication, 

Here it is - Just try it, you Reich-Wing Nazi punk. You'll have 6' 3" of widely published fightin' left wing fury waiting for you. AJ Oliver, noted peacenik. 

Below is what I actually wrote. Crab searched and searched, and finally wound up combining two unrelated posts from different threads even. 

I'd say we are getting into inter-stalking territory here .. 

21 hours ago, AJ Oliver said:

Just try it, you Reich-Wing Nazi punk. 

You'll have 6' 3" of fightin' left wing fury waiting for you. 

You say you're "civilized", but not too civilized to threaten violence. 

And all this broo ha ha because I am not politically correct from the point of view of the Reich. 

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3 hours ago, AJ Oliver said:

Just for the record, Crab's quote at the bottom of his "Missives" is a fabrication, 

Here it is - Just try it, you Reich-Wing Nazi punk. You'll have 6' 3" of widely published fightin' left wing fury waiting for you. AJ Oliver, noted peacenik. 

Below is what I actually wrote. Crab searched and searched, and finally wound up combining two unrelated posts from different threads even. 

I'd say we are getting into inter-stalking territory here .. 

And all this broo ha ha because I am not politically correct from the point of view of the Reich. 

Happier now? I'll make that disappear soon but man, I think you are nuts. When I read your shit, I envision a Hitler-like martinet screaming thru a loudspeaker. I think you may well be suffering from a serious case of projection. But have at it. I don't like the ignore function but I'll use it if I must. And maybe you're correct about the righties here as Reichistas. I've been mistaken before. I have no doubt you've studied this a lot more than I have.

On another note, you claim to be widely published. Can you back that up? That Juancole.com isn't what I'd hang my hat on. What else ya got? 

And math. I'll have to run the numbers by Wofsey but I figure you for about four web wrangles in as few weeks. The common denominator is you, bud. Thoughts?

 

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6 hours ago, Blue Crab said:

Happier now?  And maybe you're correct about the righties here as Reichistas. I've been mistaken before. I have no doubt you've studied this a lot more than I have.

AJ Oliver is a fucking idiot. 

Thanks, that's much more like it 

And well, you may well disagree with my "Reich" analysis, but I would argue that I have done my homework, and I do not use the term lightly. (Although Jeez, all it really means is "Realm" in German. For the Germans, it's a complete head-scratcher why Gringos would argue about its usage)

I have read quite a lot of Adolf, Goebbels, Hegel, Nietzsche, Al Speer, Hannah Arendt, and lots of others   Lived in Deutschland for about three years in total; played low level basketball with Sportbund Rosenheim; ran into a lot of former Nazis. (Aside - I think Nietzsche gets a bad rap) I know just enough German to get my ass kicked in a bar fight. 

Again, you are free to object to my use of that term, but over the past weeks on these posts, I have pretty clearly explained, I think, why the current US conservative movements (most of them anyway, fit that bill.)  

And to repeat, I make no special claim to have expertise about anything at all - even sailing (although the boat on which I crewed last year was just named JAM boat of the Year for 2019 by the Interlake Yachting Assoc - Woooooo woooooo !!! See Mystery Dance below - mediocre photos are my bad) 

Now its your turn - how about some bio on you ? 

MysteryDance2019 (3).png

IMG_1777.JPG

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15 hours ago, Blue Crab said:

...

On another note, you claim to be widely published. Can you back that up? That Juancole.com isn't what I'd hang my hat on. What else ya got? 

...  I figure you for about four web wrangles in as few weeks. The common denominator is you, bud. Thoughts?

 

Ollie, this isn't a dating site tho there are always a couple of ego-driven souls misplaced from FB. Kinda looking like that's you. 

 

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9 hours ago, AJ Oliver said:

AJ Oliver is a fucking idiot. 

Thanks, that's much more like it 

...     ...

And to repeat, I make no special claim to have expertise about anything at all - even sailing (although the boat on which I crewed last year was just named JAM boat of the Year for 2019 by the Interlake Yachting Assoc - Woooooo woooooo !!! See Mystery Dance below - mediocre photos are my bad) 

Now its your turn - how about some bio on you ? 

MysteryDance2019 (3).png

IMG_1777.JPG

Do you all have a local rule mandating that outboards be left on transoms? It makes a big difference to move it below, especially when there is some wave action like in the top photo.

Is that top photo just after a tack? I'd like to see the boat from another angle. Main looks like the traveler is dropped a little? Leech ribbons flying well, that's good. Can't see the jib well enough to see if it's matching the main.

Always improvements to be made. I was lucky enough to have lots of photos of my last PHRF boat (Santana 23 DB) in lots of conditions and improved our trim a lot

FB- Doug

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33 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Do you all have a local rule mandating that outboards be left on transoms? It makes a big difference to move it below, especially when there is some wave action like in the top photo.

Is that top photo just after a tack? I'd like to see the boat from another angle. Main looks like the traveler is dropped a little? Leech ribbons flying well, that's good. Can't see the jib well enough to see if it's matching the main.

Always improvements to be made. I was lucky enough to have lots of photos of my last PHRF boat (Santana 23 DB) in lots of conditions and improved our trim a lot

FB- Doug

All good queries - I sailed in the class championships not too long back, and every single 7.9 took the engine off and put it below. But on Sandusky Bay, where both of these photos were taken, I have never seen a motor taken off on any boat; nor have I seen it done anywhere in Western Lake Erie. In my own case, I would have to plead age and infirmity as the main reason for not doing it. 

Not sure about the top photo - I did not take it; but yup, traveler looks dropped. It might not be in race mod in the pic. In pointing mode, I think it is correct to say that Peter on MD does not have the boom pulled up as close to the centerline as I do on my own 7.9

From having tuned my own 7.9 against Mystery Dance, I can tell you that MD is a fast boat. It is among the last ten or so produced in 1994 about; they have a different tuning guide than my boat, which is ten years older. 

Skipper Peter grew up sailing on inland lakes, and worked with North Sails for a time. He is very good at picking up wind shifts, and says its because that is all they had to sail it on those small lakes. 

In the Bay Week Regatta we were in JAM B, and started fine minutes behind JAM A. We closed up on almost all of them, and passed some over the 13 mile course around North Bass Island. Correcting out all three classes (also JAM C) over several races, no boat was close to us. It was fun. 

Thanks for the feedback - always helps to hear it.

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C'mon Ollie. SA is down the hall. Facebook as well. Readers here know a deflection when read. 

You came on the board, hung yer shingle, did some huffing and puffing, showed your ass and now you've been tasked to put up or shut up. No one doubts your claim to be some silly shit professor at some podunk college somewhere in flyoverland. You may be a big fish there, but buddy, that's a small pond. In this here small pond, most of us get by without puffery and the puffer guys are the BUTT of the jokes like you are now.

What I think would be appropriate is:

a) Show yourself as widely published in a meaningful way as you claimed. Peer reviewed work is marginally acceptable. No one is impressed with reviews when everyone has a PhD from U of Phoenix. Univ of Phoenix doesn't even have a mastcot fcs!

b) Own up to to having been using the nice little word  "Reich" as an equivalent to "Nigger" or "Jew." It's your ugliness. Own it.

c) Admit that that 6'3" hunk of fight'n librul fury ship has sailed. I got a good laugh out of that. Seriously, you don't want to fuck with folks on the internet. You just never know. Crazy people live here. It brands you as a fucking idiot. 

d) Comment on how you have had 4 skirmishes on this board that aren't your fault. 

Do that shit and go on about yer bidness. No assignments, references to homework, yada yada. Stick to your bidness

Or not. 

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