Jump to content

Crazy furling jib cover idea - work with me here


Recommended Posts

Brainstorming a way to make a simple UV cover for my old furled Genoa as it sits on my mooring this spring/summer/fall.

Just having an old Genoa that was given to me recut to fit my boat. (I recently install a furler I rebuilt, also given to me.) The sail was free b/c it’s “toast” in the sailmaker’s estimation. (Leech delaminating, about 20 yrs old, but no rips or repairs on it.). Good for another year or so, occasional weekend sailing/3-4 weeks in summer kinda thing.  It’s pretty cheap to recut and will at least get me sailing for now, until I can budget for a new sail - in a year or so.  The sailmaker advised against spending money (in addition to basic recut) to sew a UV cloth cover on the foot and leech of the recut sail (although this will strengthen the foot/leech, but no guarantee the sail won’t split somewhere else.  It’s “throwing good money after bad.”)

Which got me to thinking of a simple/cheap way to at least protect the sail while it’s furled, sitting at my mooring this spring summer/fall.  (I’ll remove sail from boat in winter to baby it.) Which got me to thinking of something like a spinnaker sock.  I’m handy, my wife is very skilled at sewing.  Should we make a sock of some sort from free/cheap light fabric (old spinnaker?) to hoist over the rolled up sail as it sits there on the mooring for the next several months of long days of sun?  Is it worth the effort?  How much protection would it actually provide?  (The option I was originally thinking of was to sew on our own regular Dacron “UV cover” (foot/leech) to at least provide some protection - but need a heavier machine for that, and it’s much harder work!)

Thoughts?  Maybe just use the sail for a year or so until it’s truly toast and get a new one...“it’s only money“ :-)

Link to post
Share on other sites

ATN actually makes a zippered sock for that application.  Main issue is rigging the lines haul it up.  As I recall, the zipper engagement is at the top and you zipper it as you raise the sock.  Looks pretty easy for an experienced sailmaker or good amateur.  Might research how they do it for sure.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Like this?

Covers_Furlcover.jpg

 

My parents have one on their boat, from Quantum sails though, and they're very satisfied with it. It's hoisted with the spinnaker halyard, with a full length zipper and with internal tigthening lines down to the deck, so it fits snugly around the headsail. Takes a minute or to put on and take off.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I've got one, I used it when I was runnin a 3DL on the furler and didn't want to take it down.  45 foot long zipper, and some cinching cord x-ing back and forth all the way up.  Worked well.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

They seem like a good solution.

A simpler an cheaper design is to obtain a length of PVC or similar pipe, cut a strip out of it along the length. Snap/slide it over the furled sail, rig reachable ties on lower section.:-)

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, jamhass said:

ATN actually makes a zippered sock for that application.  Main issue is rigging the lines haul it up.  As I recall, the zipper engagement is at the top and you zipper it as you raise the sock.  Looks pretty easy for an experienced sailmaker or good amateur.  Might research how they do it for sure.

We have one of ATN’s socks. Works well, partly because there are “snugging lines”  wrapping around the package that you tighten after the cover is up.  Keeps things from flapping in the breeze and beating themselves to death in between outings.  If you buy one it will obviously work on any new sails too, so they won’t need UV bands $ewn on.  If you make your own cover (à la Sailrite or other) you can also wrap spinnaker halyards around it to keep flapping at bay, though you’ll need two halyards to do a good job, wrapping them in opposite directions.   

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks, all, for the various info re: furler UV sock.  I never knew they existed commercially (e.g., ATN) let alone as a DIY Sailrite thing or custom sailmaker-made thing.

Which leads me to wonder, for a *new* sail, the pros/cons of the sailmaker-sewn on foot/leech UV strips approach, vs. the separate hoisted UV sock approach.

Theoretically, the sewn-on UV strips should fully protect the sail when it’s furled, no?  (Except for protection from rain.)  So, if having a new sail made, why would one choose the sock - are they made thicker and thus have more UV protection?  Or b/c they help keep direct rain (and this moss) off sail too (a real consideration in my rainy NW climate!!) ?  (And they keep sail from ever flogging open in high winds, but you can also just tie off a furler to prevent that.)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Forgive my ignorance, but I thought jib snorkels were a universally known product.  I even have one on my "Crapie", as a friend calls it.  

I got it from SLO Sail & Canvass.  Nice product.  I hoist it with my main halyard and it has a zipper that, as someone else mentioned, engages from the top so you can zip it as you hoist the cover.  

fullsizeoutput_d98.jpeg

Link to post
Share on other sites

If you use the typical Sunbrella for a “sacrificial edge” it adds a considerable amount of weight and will affect light air performance.

alternatively you could use lighter cloth but of course won’t get the longevity of Sunbrella.

It looks to me like the DIY and other socks don’t have a drawstring system like ATN’s does, and that means the sock will flog in breeze

Link to post
Share on other sites

My friend a couple of slips down from me has a sock set up.  Looks like it does the job and is pretty slick. I prefer my Sunbrella on the sail set up. One less thing to do when packing up. Each to their own I guess.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The socks work well for a racing sail which you don't want a UV strip on.  But they can be a bit of a pain to use.  I agree with olaf.  Just put it towards a new jib.  You know you need one.  The sun's not going to kill it in Canada.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, olaf hart said:

If this jib has a one to two year life expectancy, why wast your time and money with a UV cover?

Put it towards a new jib...

Actually, I was just wanting to use the idea of the sock (which I’ve never really seen/noticed before), but was thinking of making it, like, out of an old spinnaker/sail cloth (not UV cloth) - something rough/basic/super cheap, just to try to help eke out a bit more “life” from this old sail. But maybe I’m overthinking it...as Seaker says above, the sun’s not going to kill it in Canada.

Maybe it’s better if it comes to the end of its life sooner, forcing me to get a new sail 

:-)

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, olaf hart said:

If this jib has a one to two year life expectancy, why wast your time and money with a UV cover?

Put it towards a new jib...

 

For me the sock / snorkel was a good investment.  The jib was $400+, but the sock was only $100.  

In my case, I don't race, so I'll likely get a lot more than 2 years out of it.  I can't speak for the OP, though.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Winston29 said:

For me the sock / snorkel was a good investment.  The jib was $400+, but the sock was only $100.  

In my case, I don't race, so I'll likely get a lot more than 2 years out of it.  I can't speak for the OP, though.  

Was your sock only $100 b/c homemade out of used material or whatever, or did you buy it somewhere?  I’m willing to spend max $100 on a sock - so am just curious what you did.

Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

Actually, I was just wanting to use the idea of the sock (which I’ve never really seen/noticed before), but was thinking of making it, like, out of an old spinnaker/sail cloth (not UV cloth) - something rough/basic/super cheap, just to try to help eke out a bit more “life” from this old sail. But maybe I’m overthinking it...as Seaker says above, the sun’s not going to kill it in Canada.

Maybe it’s better if it comes to the end of its life sooner, forcing me to get a new sail 

:-)

Sail cloth and Spinnaker cloth used as covers will fall apart in months, and then let the u/v damage the sails they are meant to protect!  Most of the cost for u/v covers and socks is in the labor putting them together. My sailmaker is using a lot of WeatherMax 80 for covers.  Lighter, and a bit less cost, but still very reliable.

Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

Was your sock only $100 b/c homemade out of used material or whatever, or did you buy it somewhere?  I’m willing to spend max $100 on a sock - so am just curious what you did.

https://www.slosailandcanvas.com/search.php?search_query=jib+snorkel 

My jib snorkel was $100, but I noticed on their site that a snorkel for a Nacra 5.8 is $165, so obviously it's dependent on the size of the boat / jib (Duh).   

You just tell them the length and diameter of your furled headsail, and they'll make one for you.  

Nice folks.  Good products.  I had them make me a set of sails too.  

Link to post
Share on other sites

I would just go with naked and see how many years you get out of it. When the sail finally croaks either buy a new one or a decent used one from someone like Bacon. The $100 you save on the sock will get you started on a used one.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Seriously....?   Calling this out for what it is.

I am not a waging man, but it will be safe to say that the Op will install the "new" old sail that the sailmaker has condemned - and it will still be on the boat 5-7 years from now when he gets towed off a lee shore by the coastguard/lifeboat when it proves for the umpteenth time that it won't sail to windward for shit, cannot be reefed to any sort of usable or purposeful shape and justs contributes to the clusterfuck of the rescue that good folk will be called to assist and worse still put their own assets and lives in harms way while doing so.

The sail is 20 years old FFS. Shape will be shot.... The Furler is a rebuilt skip project.....See where I am going with this. We all bemoan the cost of our beloved sport but this is not the way.

Cheapskate behaviour is alive and well - but Please do not do this with respect to being in or on the Ocean. Be resourceful, definitely. Recycle where appropriate, absolutely. But know where to draw the line - which is usually anything that cause a chain of events that makes you reliant upon others. Think that part through in detail....... Or you end up a headline on a newspaper, website or forum........

Save your cheapskate tendencies to the paint job on your house or windows, the clothes you buy, the bicycle you pull out the dumpster, the lawnmower you dont maintain, the booze you buy and the fancy restaurants you (no longer) visit and all those good things that can save you heaps so that your "sailboat" can have decent sails.

Rant over.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Boink said:

Seriously....?   Calling this out for what it is.

I am not a waging man, but it will be safe to say that the Op will install the "new" old sail that the sailmaker has condemned - and it will still be on the boat 5-7 years from now when he gets towed off a lee shore by the coastguard/lifeboat when it proves for the umpteenth time that it won't sail to windward for shit, cannot be reefed to any sort of usable or purposeful shape and justs contributes to the clusterfuck of the rescue that good folk will be called to assist and worse still put their own assets and lives in harms way while doing so.

The sail is 20 years old FFS. Shape will be shot.... The Furler is a rebuilt skip project.....See where I am going with this. We all bemoan the cost of our beloved sport but this is not the way.

Cheapskate behaviour is alive and well - but Please do not do this with respect to being in or on the Ocean. Be resourceful, definitely. Recycle where appropriate, absolutely. But know where to draw the line - which is usually anything that cause a chain of events that makes you reliant upon others. Think that part through in detail....... Or you end up a headline on a newspaper, website or forum........

Save your cheapskate tendencies to the paint job on your house or windows, the clothes you buy, the bicycle you pull out the dumpster, the lawnmower you dont maintain, the booze you buy and the fancy restaurants you (no longer) visit and all those good things that can save you heaps so that your "sailboat" can have decent sails.

Rant over.

Aren't you a cheerful soul.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Boink said:

Seriously....?

Rant over.

Take a minute to read other posts by people before going full tilt.  Jud like some others Lioness comes to mind are very prolific posters here and very smart as well.  Sure there are some batshit crazy rube golbergs in the mix but there are also some highly technical discussions produced by theoretical what if's that boil down ideas and solutions that at times are brilliant.  It's all about context.  CA is the mellow forum.

Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Boink said:

Seriously....?   Calling this out for what it is.

I am not a waging man, but it will be safe to say that the Op will install the "new" old sail that the sailmaker has condemned - and it will still be on the boat 5-7 years from now when he gets towed off a lee shore by the coastguard/lifeboat when it proves for the umpteenth time that it won't sail to windward for shit, cannot be reefed to any sort of usable or purposeful shape and justs contributes to the clusterfuck of the rescue that good folk will be called to assist and worse still put their own assets and lives in harms way while doing so.

The sail is 20 years old FFS. Shape will be shot.... The Furler is a rebuilt skip project.....See where I am going with this. We all bemoan the cost of our beloved sport but this is not the way.

Cheapskate behaviour is alive and well - but Please do not do this with respect to being in or on the Ocean. Be resourceful, definitely. Recycle where appropriate, absolutely. But know where to draw the line - which is usually anything that cause a chain of events that makes you reliant upon others. Think that part through in detail....... Or you end up a headline on a newspaper, website or forum........

Save your cheapskate tendencies to the paint job on your house or windows, the clothes you buy, the bicycle you pull out the dumpster, the lawnmower you dont maintain, the booze you buy and the fancy restaurants you (no longer) visit and all those good things that can save you heaps so that your "sailboat" can have decent sails.

Rant over.

Your post is long and full of (lots of) shit, and you don’t know me. 

Rant over.  

(I’m wasting breath on you, but please pay attention as I’ll repeat the basics, speaking very slowly so that you can follow my lips.  But —assume all you want — that’s your prerogative/ignorance/weakness.  Old sail, yes - cheap, yes.  Usable for occasional use, yes, or sailmaker wouldn’t recut it.  Don’t have budget this year for $3000+ new sail (what with many other large expenditures that are none of your fucking business).  Need a sail with luff tape on it now that I have a (professionally rebuilt) furler on boat.  Sail ok for a summer or two of occasional sailing.  Perhaps, or perhaps not, put a basic cover on it while it’s furled, to baby it. Probably not necessary, as short-term northern lat UV likely won’t matter, I now think.  Remove in winter to baby it further.  Maybe that’ll help it last another summer, maybe not.)

Now, go away.

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Ishmael said:

One of the new latex house paints might work for this. Just paint the suncover right on the sail, and you're good to go.

I'm actually serious.

Of course, you’re serious, Ish. :-)

I’m torn between low-VOC paint or not. Whichever is cheapest.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

Of course, you’re serious, Ish. :-)

I’m torn between low-VOC paint or not. Whichever is cheapest.

 

I used to sell this stuff.

97739865a_L.jpg

It really had phenomenal holding power. For a demo we'd paint wax paper and roll it up when dry. I sold a quantity to a theatre company that wanted something to paint on canvas that was to be rolled up for storage, and they were really happy with it. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Forget old spinnaker as a sock. Nylon rots faster than Dacron in the sun and wouldn't provide any protection. I'd go to your local fabric store and see what they have in the remnants bin of synthetic canvas. Or even buy new from an outdoor fabric store or a mail order company.

The reason people sew UV covers to sails is convenience. If you have to hoist a cover on the sail when you are done sailing, you're defeating half the point of roller furling.

If you go without anything it will likely last the summer and might get another year out of it, but I wouldn't count on 2nd year.

UV treated dacron sticky back is used by sailmakers as a cheaper alternative to Sunbrella or Weathermax. Its not as good a UV blocker and doesn't last as long. And it's a pain to remove when it fails in 5 years. Well in Vancouver maybe 7+ years :). It is lighter so is better for light wind sail shape.

Painting the sail might be the best cheapest alternative.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Zonker said:

Painting the sail might be the best cheapest alternative

This thread is starting to make me think of the Dumpster’s outrageous “prescription” to take hydroxycholoroquine and, more recently and infamously, ingest disinfectant as a prophylaxis against Covid. :-) :-) (“What have you got to lose?”)

I like the stickyback Dacron idea - never thought of that. I think I’ll assess more closely the state of the sail once I have it back to see it seems worth it.  After I was first given it, I laid it out and did a layperson’s inspection - no tears, stains, patches, fraying, etc.  Good enough for a year or so of use, it seemed to me.  We’ll see once it’s up if it merits putting any effort into eking a bit more life out of it before I have my fated appointment with a lee shore :-) :-)

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

Your post is long and full of (lots of) shit, and you don’t know me. 

Rant over.  

(I’m wasting breath on you, but please pay attention as I’ll repeat the basics, speaking very slowly so that you can follow my lips.  But —assume all you want — that’s your prerogative/ignorance/weakness.  Old sail, yes - cheap, yes.  Usable for occasional use, yes, or sailmaker wouldn’t recut it.  Don’t have budget this year for $3000+ new sail (what with many other large expenditures that are none of your fucking business).  Need a sail with luff tape on it now that I have a (professionally rebuilt) furler on boat.  Sail ok for a summer or two of occasional sailing.  Perhaps, or perhaps not, put a basic cover on it while it’s furled, to baby it. Probably not necessary, as short-term northern lat UV likely won’t matter, I now think.  Remove in winter to baby it further.  Maybe that’ll help it last another summer, maybe not.)

Now, go away.

Make me...... You are the poster that represents Too many of the boats that can be picked out in any marina, anywhere in the world.

I do not wish you, nor anyone here, malice or ill will. Was trying to provoke a reality check and if that involves reminding you of the harsh realities that are directly caused, then so be it. Trying to appeal to your better conscience, not just being a critic - which you have decided that I am. I really do applaud re-use and upcycling wherever possible, as I wrote; but there has to be limit, and you fail to see that or understand the direct connection of cause and effect.

You are the individual trying to save a Dollar, but yet you hadn't done the due dilligence of a simple google search for your issues beforehand. You took the Forum choice and now your reaction is both laughable and very telling. Your language betrays you. Your follow up post even confirms that your primary driver is cheapness.                                                    You have doubled down on your intentions. 'Nuff said, Let the Dice Fall......

Karma will have her date with you. Remember that inner voice of conscience when she does.

Hope your Navigation and Weather Forecasting keeps you off those Lee Shores.......Good Luck. Peace Out.

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Boink said:

Make me...... You are the poster that represents Too many of the boats that can be picked out in any marina, anywhere in the world.

I do not wish you, nor anyone here, malice or ill will. Was trying to provoke a reality check and if that involves reminding you of the harsh realities that are directly caused, then so be it. Trying to appeal to your better conscience, not just being a critic - which you have decided that I am. I really do applaud re-use and upcycling wherever possible, as I wrote; but there has to be limit, and you fail to see that or understand the direct connection of cause and effect.

You are the individual trying to save a Dollar, but yet you hadn't done the due dilligence of a simple google search for your issues beforehand. You took the Forum choice and now your reaction is both laughable and very telling. Your language betrays you. Your follow up post even confirms that your primary driver is cheapness.                                                    You have doubled down on your intentions. 'Nuff said, Let the Dice Fall......

Karma will have her date with you. Remember that inner voice of conscience when she does.

Hope your Navigation and Weather Forecasting keeps you off those Lee Shores.......Good Luck. Peace Out.

My dear man, Anonymous poster with Random Capitalizations intending to sound authoritative:

OK, I’m game, I’ll reply to your nonsense - it gives me something fun to do as I sip my morning coffee.  I do indeed sometimes like to save money - precisely the reason I accepted a free furler merely in need of seized fastener removal and bearing replacement, doing the installation myself in consultation with a rigger; why I dive on my own boat for underwater zinc, etc. maintenance; the reason I rebuilt my engine from the block up; rebuilt my engine water pump with new shaft seals and bearings after extensive research, instead of paying Volvo Penta over $2000 for a new one or purchasing their entire pump rotor/shaft/bearing/seal assembly (all they sell) for close to $1000 when all I needed was a seal and two bearings;  became an electrician to refine my skills in the commercial and industrial context; rebuilt my mast; removed and serviced my rudder; do all my own electrical and mechanical installations, including finish carpentry; machine my own parts where required and rely on friends with superior capabilities and tooling when mine aren’t sufficient, etc etc.  And, most incredibly (to you, whoever you are, anonymous, peevish forum judge that, to paraphrase you, “represents Too many of the assholes that can be picked out in any Internet forum, anywhere in the world”), I now have a used sail, which appears to keep you awake at night, recut for a small amount of money, that will get some short-term use as a first-time roller furling headsail before committing money to a new sail that, frankly, I DO NOT NEED RIGHT NOW (do you get it now?) given that it won’t be used very often and my money is best committed elsewhere right now, like new standing and running rigging replacement which —yes— I will do on my own to save money instead of foolishly paying someone else to do.  Ok - do you now fucking understand?  When my sailing plans extend to longer, more involved voyages, I shall send you a small piece of my old sail as a bittersweet memory of our brief online interaction, so that you can cuddle and stroke it at night, resting easy, far from the nightmarish image of Karma-laden lee shores, or whatever nonsense and gibberish you were spouting.
 
That’s me.  You, by contrast, don’t seem to know your ass from your mouth and are the Judgy Anonymous Asshole Forum Blowhard who thinks they know it all.  So let me offer you some advice instead.  You have absolutely no idea what I plan to do with my sail, how/where I plan to sail, nor for how long.  So piss off with your laughworthy bullshit about karma and letting the dice fall - if nothing else, your post provides some entertainment.

(A line to remember - “You took the Forum choice”.   I’ve taken no choice, merely written on this forum, dude.  Perhaps I shall put some paint on a sail, purple maybe, and post a pic here to stoke the fires of your aching concern, lee shore breakers clouding your imagination  like a massive migraine.  But then I will have really I’ve broken a promise made long ago not to respond to judginess from anonymous forum asses.  Adieu.)

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

That’s me. 

It's no use, you're gonna die!

No, wait, it sounds like a sensible and well thought out plan. It would be great if everyone could throw money at every problem, but that'll never be the case. To suggest that nobody can safely leave the dock if any detail is less than perfect isn't just unrealistic and unhelpful - it hurts the sport and turns people away from sailing.

For my money I'd try the paint. In an old laminate sail I'd be more worried about damage from flogging during tacks than UV damage over the course of a summer.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/24/2020 at 5:27 PM, Zonker said:

The reason people sew UV covers to sails is convenience. If you have to hoist a cover on the sail when you are done sailing, you're defeating half the point of roller furling.

If you go without anything it will likely last the summer and might get another year out of it, but I wouldn't count on 2nd year.

I think Zonker makes an excellent point, as usual. I would sew, or paint, a UV panel on an old sail (lipstick on a pig) before I would get into some sort of sock/sleeve set up. You're probably going to get one more season from the sail (either it will fail or you will tire of it), so there's a strong argument to do nothing or go with the paint. I'd do nothing. At most, I'd paint it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, chester said:

I'm still trying to get my head around...paint!

Likewise.  

I’m actually into trying it, though saying so on this forum apparently might subject me to violent censure from some :-).  If the sail condition (when I get it back) seems to merit trying to eke more life out of it, the minimal cost and effort of paint to give a bit of short-term protection from baking UV, well, why not.  I’d replace the sail next summer unless it’s still in usable shape.  In which case I’ll brave the scariest of lee shores.

Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, SASSAFRASS said:

Instead of paint what about a sticky back vinyl?  Sure there has to be a cost effective roll of something that will have ok UV. Just think of the creative graphics potential.

If I may dare, advertising for this local dude’s book.  :-)

D78F35D7-56BD-4B5F-B793-A438FAB22019.jpeg

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmm... painting a sail... Why not? I suspect it'll flake off within the first couple of tacks, but hey what have you got to lose?

I've found that hoisting a sock over a rolled-up headsail is not much trouble IMHO. You can use it on old sail, new sail, hide what you've got from a competitor. Best, it is far more secure in a storm.

It is one more thing to pay for, care for, store, etc etc etc. I'd try paint!

FB- Doug

Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

My dear man, Anonymous poster with Random Capitalizations intending to sound authoritative:

OK, I’m game, I’ll reply to your nonsense - it gives me something fun to do as I sip my morning coffee.  I do indeed sometimes like to save money - precisely the reason I accepted a free furler merely in need of seized fastener removal and bearing replacement, doing the installation myself in consultation with a rigger; why I dive on my own boat for underwater zinc, etc. maintenance; the reason I rebuilt my engine from the block up; rebuilt my engine water pump with new shaft seals and bearings after extensive research, instead of paying Volvo Penta over $2000 for a new one or purchasing their entire pump rotor/shaft/bearing/seal assembly (all they sell) for close to $1000 when all I needed was a seal and two bearings;  became an electrician to refine my skills in the commercial and industrial context; rebuilt my mast; removed and serviced my rudder; do all my own electrical and mechanical installations, including finish carpentry; machine my own parts where required and rely on friends with superior capabilities and tooling when mine aren’t sufficient, etc etc.  And, most incredibly (to you, whoever you are, anonymous, peevish forum judge that, to paraphrase you, “represents Too many of the assholes that can be picked out in any Internet forum, anywhere in the world”), I now have a used sail, which appears to keep you awake at night, recut for a small amount of money, that will get some short-term use as a first-time roller furling headsail before committing money to a new sail that, frankly, I DO NOT NEED RIGHT NOW (do you get it now?) given that it won’t be used very often and my money is best committed elsewhere right now, like new standing and running rigging replacement which —yes— I will do on my own to save money instead of foolishly paying someone else to do.  Ok - do you now fucking understand?  When my sailing plans extend to longer, more involved voyages, I shall send you a small piece of my old sail as a bittersweet memory of our brief online interaction, so that you can cuddle and stroke it at night, resting easy, far from the nightmarish image of Karma-laden lee shores, or whatever nonsense and gibberish you were spouting.
 
That’s me.  You, by contrast, don’t seem to know your ass from your mouth and are the Judgy Anonymous Asshole Forum Blowhard who thinks they know it all.  So let me offer you some advice instead.  You have absolutely no idea what I plan to do with my sail, how/where I plan to sail, nor for how long.  So piss off with your laughworthy bullshit about karma and letting the dice fall - if nothing else, your post provides some entertainment.

(A line to remember - “You took the Forum choice”.   I’ve taken no choice, merely written on this forum, dude.  Perhaps I shall put some paint on a sail, purple maybe, and post a pic here to stoke the fires of your aching concern, lee shore breakers clouding your imagination  like a massive migraine.  But then I will have really I’ve broken a promise made long ago not to respond to judginess from anonymous forum asses.  Adieu.)

 

The fact that calling you a cheapskate has more than touched a nerve with you is hilarious. Your Fragile state of mind has cracked. Too many fumes from that rebuilt engine? Been eating the left over Zinc Anodes? (The Dentist should have warned you about snakking between meals) Been sniffing the Hot Solder after your Electrical Training? - Why the Hell you need HV training to wire your boat is more than puzzling...... May be that Electrical Training was not all it was cracked up to be - you seem to have blown a fuse.

The Tolstoyesque length response you generate is so overought and yet so utterly meaningless, but most of all, ironic (after you called out my post for being too long).  

So you maintain your boat, as do many others here. Big Deal. Whats makes you so special Cup Cake? Oh, that's right; absolutely NOTHING......

Were you dropped on your head as a baby? Did your Mumma not love you? You started this thread looking like a lazy tight wad, but now you look like a shouty twat, trying way too hard to prove something to someone and justify your cheapness. Are you always at the back of the group on entering the Bar........ just always?

Well its great to see that all the money you have saved will be going to a good cause - Your Therapist. You need serious help. Go Re-Build your head - it needs a full overhaul. 

Rest assured, Mental Health is a serious topic. I am here for you, Cup Cake. Anytime. Just ask.......... 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Boink said:

trying way too hard to prove something to someone and justify your cheapness. Are you always at the back of the group on entering the Bar........ just always?

No need to justify my parsimony, you blazing asshole.  I just said as much above, and explained my reasoning for such in excruciating detail so that your stunted brain could grasp the basics.  

Now - fuck off, go judge others, then die.  And - don’t let the jagged rocks of the lee shore hit you on the way out.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

No need to justify my parsimony, you blazing asshole.  I just said as much above, and explained my reasoning for such in excruciating detail so that your stunted brain could grasp the basics.  

Now - fuck off, go judge others, then die.  And - don’t let the jagged rocks of the lee shore hit you on the way out.  

Not going anywhere.

Remember that for maximum efficacy, you need to be upfront and honest with your Therapist. So you need to tell them that you're Cheap, Nasty, Excrucriatingly Longwinded, Exceedingly Boorish - look that one up..... whilst you regale any poor sod with tales of your DIY expertise (because you recount replacing an anode, as if NASA couldn't undertake such complex engineering). No wonder no one wants to go drinking with you. Not to worry though, Alcohol is often contraindicated with prescription medications and so you will be able to rejoice in the "enforced" nature of Never shouting a round of drinks....... How very convenient. Silver Linings Eh? 

All the while Karma will be on the Hunt for you, with every Lee Shore beckoning you over during the next 5-7 years of Paint Edged Sail Ownership. You will be so easy to spot (and avoid) by the whole maritime community. Now Chop Chop, you had better consult the advice of a "professional artist" to make sure you paint it properly......... Oh hang on, you have already started...... 

 

landscapehirst.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Boink said:

Not going anywhere.

Remember that for maximum efficacy, you need to be upfront and honest

Boink, why don't you officially introduce yourself. What boat do you own, or run at present and what are the running costs?

Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, Bull City said:

@Boink & @Jud - s/v Sputnik Guys, the pissing contest is not appreciated. Please drop it or take it to PMing. Thank you.

Sorry, Bull - that guy “barged in” with his extremely unhelpful, unpleasant comments and a hostile personal attack right from the beginning.  I’ve never seen that before.  I’ve no idea who it is, that person doesn’t know a thing about me, and I don’t take anonymous personal attacks from assholes lying down.  In retrospect, though, I realize anyone who does that —and yammers on and on and on, a rabid dog with an irritated anus that he can’t scratch— likely has underlying problems and isn’t worth spending any amount of time reading or replying to.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, gkny said:

Practical Sailor reviewed paint for Uv protection in the past year or so

Interesting - a reminder why PS can be a good mag.  Will check it out.  (But I would’ve thought that all marine paints basically give “UV protection” for any substrate: glass, wood, etc.)

EDIT: just googled the article; hadn’t realized you specifically meant for sail cloth:  https://www.practical-sailor.com/sails-rigging-deckgear/the-case-of-the-painted-jib  I doubt I’ll put the effort/money into the old short-term-use recut jib I’ll pick up this week, but judging by the article, it sounds like a potential solution for newer sails.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

Sorry, Bull - that guy “barged in” with his extremely unhelpful, unpleasant comments and a hostile personal attack right from the beginning.  I’ve never seen that before.  I’ve no idea who it is, that person doesn’t know a thing about me, and I don’t take anonymous personal attacks from assholes lying down.  In retrospect, though, I realize anyone who does that —and yammers on and on and on, a rabid dog with an irritated anus that he can’t scratch— likely has underlying problems and isn’t worth spending any amount of time reading or replying to.  

I agree with you. His post (#25) was sour and not helpful. I can understand your response. I was just a little surprised at the length of the exchange, especially since you have always been helpful and positive. Perhaps Boink is having a hard time with the Q flag.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/24/2020 at 7:02 AM, Whinging Pom said:

I've found that the sock suffers from vortex shedding in any breeze and the whole forestay and the boat would start shuddering.   The solution was to spiral wrap a spare halyard, so the air flow was broken up.

We used the same halyard wrap for the same reason but ultimately had the “sock” recut to tailor fit the rolled sail.   As others have noted the sock also had lacings to snug the whole thing up. Sunbrella worked great for UV protection of 3di sail but PIA.  I’m not a fan of sunbrella sewn to the leach but debating it for our next cruising boat for ease of use - apparently getting old and lazy.   

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/24/2020 at 2:11 PM, Ishmael said:

I used to sell this stuff.

97739865a_L.jpg

It really had phenomenal holding power. For a demo we'd paint wax paper and roll it up when dry. I sold a quantity to a theatre company that wanted something to paint on canvas that was to be rolled up for storage, and they were really happy with it. 

I’m going to give it a go on my forward nets... more as it develops 

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Jud - s/v Sputnik I was just reminded that you are the O.P. You had every right to be indignant.

So which way are you leaning on the sail thingie? Sock, paint, nothing?

This is an aesthetic thing, a lot of folks, perhaps millions, use a Sunbrella UV strip on the foot and leach that matches the color of the rest of their canvas. All well and good, but I really don't like the look when the boat is sailing. I've gone with the strip to match the color of the sail. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/24/2020 at 3:11 PM, Ishmael said:

I used to sell this stuff.

image.png.c160712aa0f28939a5bc4d4839080c26.png

It really had phenomenal holding power. For a demo we'd paint wax paper and roll it up when dry. I sold a quantity to a theatre company that wanted something to paint on canvas that was to be rolled up for storage, and they were really happy with it. 

Was that when you worked at Ace Hardware? :D

image.png.b248568c61d7cd7b80690ffdbd65283e.png

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Bull City said:

This is an aesthetic thing, a lot of folks, perhaps millions, use a Sunbrella UV strip on the foot and leach that matches the color of the rest of their canvas. All well and good, but I really don't like the look when the boat is sailing. I've gone with the strip to match the color of the sail. 

Interesting. Years ago I read or heard that for UV protection black is preferred. Lighter colors provided considerably less protection almost to the point of being worthless. Maybe I was misled?

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, SpongeDeckSquareFoil said:

Interesting. Years ago I read or heard that for UV protection black is preferred. Lighter colors provided considerably less protection almost to the point of being worthless. Maybe I was misled?

You may be right about black. I remember the lady who made my sail cover held samples up to the sun, and the navy blue seemed to block more of the visible light than the tan. Also, the light UV panel is sacrificial according to my sailmaker.

Worthless? I don't know. My boat came with an older jib and main, probably 1980 sails. The jib had a light color UV strip, and was in very good shape, as was the main, which also had an off-white cover. Of course, it was a New England boat, and that had a lot to do with it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

Sorry, Bull - that guy “barged in” with his extremely unhelpful, unpleasant comments and a hostile personal attack right from the beginning.  I’ve never seen that before.  I’ve no idea who it is, that person doesn’t know a thing about me, and I don’t take anonymous personal attacks from assholes lying down.  In retrospect, though, I realize anyone who does that —and yammers on and on and on, a rabid dog with an irritated anus that he can’t scratch— likely has underlying problems and isn’t worth spending any amount of time reading or replying to.  

That's why the forum has the ignore poster feature. I find that it works well for people like boink.

FKT

Link to post
Share on other sites

My wife made a sleeve type cover with a zipper for the jib on our boat and it's pretty easy to use. She made it from a less-expensive cloth called Odyssey 3. The hard part was figuring the diameter so that it wasn't too floppy, yet still fit. We have used the same cloth for boom tents and other stuff.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I hate roller furler jibs: Weight aloft, windage, tacking at anchor, jamming when you really need to furl, damage to the sail when partially furled, and of course UV.

It is easier to hoist a hanked headsail than to furl a roller furling headsail. It is easy to drop a hanked headsail on deck.

I went with a carbon, fully battened 99% jib. Soft hanks (dyneema) on a dyneema headstay, so low friction and light, making hoisting easy. It stays on deck. I have a sail cover that clips on to the life lines so the sail stays just off the deck, so it dries and its easy to clean the decks.

The shape is perfectly stable because the carbon does not stretch, so no need for a bunch of headsails: this one works perfect all the time. Also, the lowest batten is at an angle, from clew to a more-or-less right angle at the headstay, so I can go DDW wing on wing without a whisker pole.

The carbon pole is the sprit for downwind sails. Note the "bull nose" instead of the old clam shell, and the bobstay spliced to the bow.

IMG_5895.jpeg

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

The deal with jib socks is this: think about how the jib is furled. There is a taper of furled sail, not unlike the brontosaurus*, from the head, widens to the furled clew, and then tapers back to the tack end. A straight cylinder sock will have to be baggy above and below the clew, a shaped sock won't be zippable over the clew, so the ATN lacing solution seems to be the best answer that I've seen.

Except as carcrash describes above, but my boat came with the furler, so I've just lived with it. When the jib dies, I will think about re-rigging...

 

_________

*seehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_Elk's_Theory_on_Brontosauruses

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...

Behr housepaint... 33$ a gallon. you can do two or three sails, match any color you want, the sail rolls tighter, it's lighter, no stitching to die, and if done carefully will last for years keeping the UV off your sail.

this technology came from the experimental aircraft world, where they use 3.8 oz dacron for wing surfaces. they had trouble with UV so they tested lots of 'coatings' BEHR house paint was the best. Then I asked several friends in the sail cloth biz, suppliers we had worked with for thirty years, what about that UVR patch material and UVR leech tapes. Isn't Titanium Dioxide really just the base of white paint? All three agreed it was. so the fancy UVR stuff was just white painted, essentially.

So we started getting people who had older sails who wanted to save them for more life, people who weren't so interested in spending hundreds to have heavy Sunbrella sewn on again, a fix that would last longer than the sail. They easily ripped off the old dead leech covers and painted what had been the covered area. yes, the color bleeds through the old stitch holes (paint both sides if that bugs you) and you do have to treat it like painting, put it on thinner rather than thick, keep a good wet line going, all that.

Just like that house paint keeps your siding and porch in good shape, so it does on your sail. 

Too fuckin' easy

call me stiks

aloha

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, Scowjunkie said:

Behr housepaint... 33$ a gallon. you can do two or three sails, match any color you want, the sail rolls tighter, it's lighter, no stitching to die, and if done carefully will last for years keeping the UV off your sail.

this technology came from the experimental aircraft world

 

Cool, thanks for the info.  I’ve actually read that elastomeric house/building paint works very well - extremely flexible and UV blocking.  Typically used on stucco and brick.

Turns out my new/old recut sail is actually in relatively decent shape - recently got it back from sailmaker after a meager  three hundred+ dollar recut and leech reinforcement, and have bent it on and tested it on my rebuilt furler.  It’s not perfect, but it’s a first-time furling jib and seems worth putting temporary UV protection of some sort on the leech - paint.

When I get a new sail made, I can totally see the value of having a UV cover sewn on the leech, and also hoisting a UV cover “jib sock” over it.  Call me cheap (some bastard here will :-) and I’ll tear you apart to prove it :-)), but, personally, I’d prefer to protect the $2-3K investment in a new sail and keep it in good shape as long as reasonably possible.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Jud - s/v Sputnik

I have held my tongue while yours has flailed wildly.

You whinged like a thin skinned little pussy when called out. You bit so hard at the suggestion of your cheapskate tendancies, and how that can put others in harm's way because of your poor choices. History demonstrates how people that overreact are usually compensating for the exact behaviour that they are being questioned on. And you fit this to a T.

It was your responses that were filled with foul language, hatred and hypocrisy. Your portrayal of what went down here is so stupifying. Clearly you are not seeking therapy with all the dollars saved, and/or you are mixing your meds with alcohol....... I was content to leave alone. But You could not help yourself, instead to taunt, make threats and reignite all this.

That's wilful, boneheaded and ignorant. But again that all fits the pattern you transparently and repeatedly demonstrate.

I had considered, but not declared, (until just above) for you to be a thin skinned pussy from early in this exchange because of your over reaction. It's a sort' polite and benevolent version of what is meant. However you have proved worthy of the full upgrade - I do declare You to be an Utter (Cheapskate) Cunt. I really hope you get the Fucking from Life, you so clearly deserve.

  • Downvote 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Pity you didn't keep doing so but never mind - you've now made it onto my ignore list.

FKT

Ah, he came back, uninvited, out from under the dark, slimy rock he was lurking under.  A most curious wretch.  And I’m now being accused of “putting others in harm’s way”!!  Love it.    (A variation of the whole “beware the lee shore!” thing the dude was crying on about earlier.)  Let me address these very serious accusations and hopefully shut the fucker’s mouth up.

The title of this thread is “crazy jib furling cover idea - work with me here.”  I had thought those signal phrases (“crazy...idea”, and “work with me here”) would cue unwary yet alert readers not to get to attached to the outlandish ideas discussed herein.  Along the lines of, “Warning reader!  Unorthodox topics will be discussed; they may sound ‘crazy’ but, hey, let’s see where this conversation leads.”

Well, they apparently lead to me washing up on a lee shore and —horrors of horrors— encouraging others to engage in risky behaviour and endanger themselves.  Yes, it has come to this, dear reader. Reckless endangerment of others via the Cruising Anarchy forum.

I have now been accused, through this wicked Cruising Anarchy thread, of “putting others in harm’s way”.  (Imagine all the other threads here to which you or your friends have been party —suggestions on GPS charting systems; rigging upgrades; hatch re-bedding; hard vs. inflatable dinghies; and on and on and on and on —unbeknownst to you, you very likely have been “putting others in harm’s way” through your thoughts posted here, according to my pouting accuser.)

So, in order that I not be wrongfully accused of courting my own death on lee shores (the first charge made of me) and, now, ”putting others in harm’s way,” propelled there with a faulty jib that my words unduly influenced them to acquire and use, I hereby offer the following very serious legal disclaimer.  (It is also my hope that this personal and very serious legally-binding disclaimer will finally shut this fucking asshole @Boink up  —though he is good fun to laugh at.)

Let it be known:

1) I take full responsibility for my painted jib inevitably piling me up on a vicious and rocky lee shore, in the dead of winter, hemmed in by icebergs with no possibility of survival;

2) I disclaim any responsibility for “putting others in harm’s way” by suggesting they paint (smiley faces or whatever) on old bedsheet sails and hoist them for use on their cheap, decrepit, un-maintained and generally dodgy vessels, sailing incautiously to and fro in front of aforementioned vicious lee shores or anywhere else.

3) I direct the august reader of this thread looking for practical advice on sails to only ever sail with brand new sails every time you go out; and,

4) Finally, I hereby inform patient readers of this delightful thread that a full report on the effectiveness of UV paint on jibs (sample size = 1), and perhaps on older Sunbrella (apparently it has temporary restorative properties for tropical sun-worn biminis/dodgers), with gory detailed pictures, will be posted here in the future.  Boink, please be forewarned to cover your eyes from the scary pictures lest they give you frightful nightmares or otherwise disturb you.  (You seem easily triggered, so I’m giving you plenty of advance warning to avert your eyes from said pictures.)

5) Do not try this at home.  Ever.  Doing so will likely result in a gruesome death on a lee shore for you or a loved one.  Practice social distancing.  Do not misconstrue any words of mine in this thread as an endorsement to paint a smiley face or anything else on your jib and put yourself or anyone else “in harm’s way”.  You or someone else will likely die as a result of this dangerous activity.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/26/2020 at 12:13 AM, Ishmael said:

beast.jpg

What do you have to lose?

Why is it so hard for people (not you specifically--I liked the photo) to get your head around paint? This stuff makes it around the world (and yes, this is one of the paint types I tested).

Not house paint. It will peal within 6-12 months, perhaps less, depending on the brand and the sail cloth type. I tried several top brands. If you want to know the exact paints, you'll have to subscribe, or the publisher will club me.

It's been 2 years now, without a single chip or worn spot (jib on furler, stays up year-round), and I like tacking a lot. It is a polyester/laminate sail. Practical Sailor, "The Case for The Painted Jib."

I would still go for Sunbrella for a new heavy duty genoa, but for aging or very lightweight sails, It seem easy, cheap, and effective. I'm probably going to order my next jib sans cover and paint it. But not with house paint. And not white; even white Sunbrella lets UV through, and the UV penetration increases chipping as well as sail breakdown. Most of the sail loft attempts at UV paint used white, which was not well conceived.  Paint is a normal thing on cloth-cover planes, but the FAA has a UV-blocking requirement that includes an opaque underlayer.

 

[I haven't piled up on a lee shore yet. Could happen.]

Link to post
Share on other sites

The Practical Sailor article was authored by Drew Fry. He’s not a wanker. Elastomeric inflatable dinghy paint performed best. Looks agricultural but i respect cheap and functional. Run with it.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

I have now been accused, through this wicked Cruising Anarchy thread, of “putting others in harm’s way”.  (Imagine all the other threads here to which you or your friends have been party —suggestions on GPS charting systems; rigging upgrades; hatch re-bedding; hard vs. inflatable dinghies; and on and on and on and on —unbeknownst to you, you very likely have been “putting others in harm’s way” through your thoughts posted here, according to my pouting accuser.)

Yeah well - I have *2* offset companionways, a second-hand jib on a home-built furler and flat junk sails. I'm a major danger to myself and every other boat on the water every time I drop the mooring pennant.

Oh well. Somehow we manage.

FKT

Link to post
Share on other sites

Plenty of boats with painted UV strips now - not sure of cost verses a traditional stitched version.

A lalternative to Sunbrella is WeatherMax80 made by Safety Components in the Carolinas. Lighter and more resistant to abrasion with the same UV stability guarantees - they now have PSA (sticky-back) options specifically for applying as UV strips (it still needs sewing on, the PSA helps sail makers with the application).

The genoa socks are a decent option when you can spare an additional halyard and either buy or make a version with the compression lines to minimise the volume once up the rig otherwise all the problems mentioned before with chafe, flapping etc will turn it into a shit show. WeatherMax is also an option for these socks - easier to handle and store with less weight and stowage volume than Sunbrella. It's also breathable to help minimise any moisture accumulation within the sock.

As other poster said - do not use old sails or spin cloth for these covers, it's just wasted time as they will not last long enough for the effort you're likely to put into them...

Note - just to clear it up before anyone asks, I have no affiliation with Safety Components/WeatherMax, just work in the industry and wanted to share some opinions....

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, NZK said:

Plenty of boats with painted UV strips now - not sure of cost verses a traditional stitched version.

A lalternative to Sunbrella is WeatherMax80 made by Safety Components in the Carolinas. Lighter and more resistant to abrasion with the same UV stability guarantees - they now have PSA (sticky-back) options specifically for applying as UV strips (it still needs sewing on, the PSA helps sail makers with the application).

The genoa socks are a decent option when you can spare an additional halyard and either buy or make a version with the compression lines to minimise the volume once up the rig otherwise all the problems mentioned before with chafe, flapping etc will turn it into a shit show. WeatherMax is also an option for these socks - easier to handle and store with less weight and stowage volume than Sunbrella. It's also breathable to help minimise any moisture accumulation within the sock.

As other poster said - do not use old sails or spin cloth for these covers, it's just wasted time as they will not last long enough for the effort you're likely to put into them...

Note - just to clear it up before anyone asks, I have no affiliation with Safety Components/WeatherMax, just work in the industry and wanted to share some opinions....

 

 

Sounds interesting NZK.  The fabric weight of WeatherMax80 is 8oz per their own product sheet, isnt' that the same as most Sunbrellas?  And can the other claims you've attributed to the product (abrasion resistance, ease of handling due to less weight and volume, breathability to minimize moisture) be substantiated?

Cheers!

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

If you furl the jib too soon after the paint dries, do you risk furling it shut? Like painting a window shut? 

Asking for a friend.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, fufkin said:

If you furl the jib too soon after the paint dries, do you risk furling it shut? Like painting a window shut? 

Asking for a friend.

No, it actually gives you an eye catching tie-dye effect. 

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

aaand the "ignore" feature comes in handy again...though I'm pretty sure I'm just ignoring another one of LB's handles.  Don't matter none.

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, CriticalPath said:

 

Sounds interesting NZK.  The fabric weight of WeatherMax80 is 8oz per their own product sheet, isnt' that the same as most Sunbrellas?  And can the other claims you've attributed to the product (abrasion resistance, ease of handling due to less weight and volume, breathability to minimize moisture) be substantiated?

Cheers!