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The Swedish Experiment


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45 minutes ago, Plan Covid Normal said:

Posted unaltered? No you didn't.

Your CSV file has errors one country in particular you have quoted with very large overstating of deaths.

The Start dates you have used predates pandemic deaths by months and your CSV durations doesn't match the weeks here.

You have never posted your fabricated Denmark, Finland and Norway Excess Deaths to compare to those published.  

And

It is correct and you can't find one to post.

And

I understand Excess Death baselines perfectly well.

You are averaging over 1 year and 14 weeks or a 'average of a average' 

Your 'average of a average' is fabricated to favour Sweden's negative deaths in 2109/20 flu season. 

Longer than weekly country comparisons are published on a cumulative deaths basis just like the 3 published ones I posted

1 Year 14 weeks (different start and end dates) is not the duration of pandemic deaths

And 

Excess deaths is the only standard of comparing countries when the method of reporting Covid deaths differs so greatly, particularly developed versus undeveloped countries and where official Covid deaths are manipulated by leaders. Luckily most national statistic publishers adhere to international conventions not political pressure.

Excess deaths comes with qualifications and responsible publishers apply caveats. Example is dengue fever in Sth America and several countries in Southeast Asia early last year.

A contrary example is a dishonest person who see a different 2029/20 flu death outcome between the Scandinavian 4 and uses that to fabricate a excess deaths argument to downplay Swedens deaths by Covid outcome.

And

You chopped out both "you go back 20 years" and preceding paragraphs "no one publishes for comparing to Covid period, except you by posting here.... The accepted data set for that and excess deaths baseline is '5 years'."

There is not one published comprehensive country by country cumulative excess deaths for the pandemic period where majority of baselines are greater than a 5 years. If there was you would post it.

Your 20 years is not only fruitcake outlier, but fabricated to favour Sweden. You don't post any other other country over the same 20 year period.

And these four paragraphs and charts

You ignored those 4 paragraphs and chart numbers for obvious reasons, it shows your fabricated excess deaths are a complete nonsense.

I wouldn't normally think of replying to rubbish like yours, that I'm sure you were hoping for.

No such luck

Bedrageri

Thanks for taking the time to point out his BS.  A few of us have taken that task on in the past and given up.  Your efforts to correct him were patient and well-intentioned.  Most of us have lost patience with him much earlier. 

Again thanks.

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Everyone in this thread is probably in a nursing home. They sound like Joe Biden trying to form a cognitive sentence.    "Uh, but, cases only, g.g.g.g.go down with lock-down." 'If you don't w

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1 minute ago, Plan Covid Normal said:

You then go and fabricate data using World in Data that also has neither.

I haven't fabricated anything.

Here read this and note the calculated cumulative P scores.  You called me a liar and a fabricator using that method of comparison yet seems OK for Oxford University amongst many others.

All this nonsense from you to try and denigrate Sweden's pandemic strategy.  FFS you even called a liar when I post exactly the same data as you!

17.10-29-Jun-20-Aron-Muellbauer-Giattino-Ritchie-Excess-Mortality-article.pdf

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3 minutes ago, Plan Covid Normal said:

Its your CV spreadsheet and your fabricated result. It your responsibility to see if there are any glaring errors. Go find it yourself. Took me 15 seconds.

It isnt MY CSV file it is Ourworldindata's which is sourced from official sources.  It may have took you 15 seconds to find something yet you would spend 2 seconds to post the error!

5 minutes ago, Plan Covid Normal said:

You have not made one post referring to the numbers on that P Score Excess Deaths as posted days ago compared to your fabricated numbers.

BS.

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1 minute ago, Plan Covid Normal said:

World in Data don't publish either per capita excess deaths and cumulative deaths

The figures I posted were from other sources which were noted on the data.  Sweden's Government freely publishes this data as does a number of other  countries including the UK.

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1 minute ago, Plan Covid Normal said:

will tell you the error as a reward for owning up to fabricating data

I haven't fabricated anything.  If there is an error in the source data then post it.  An error is NOT fabrication.

I guess I won't get a retraction on your statement that "no one uses P score averages the way I have"?

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So is the enormous differential in death rate percentage due to ethnic differences or health care or what? Israel's death rate is 5 times higher than Canada's? 

I haven't been to Israel but had assumed the health care situation to be similar to ours and I know they are way ahead of us on the vaccination front. 

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8 hours ago, Plan Covid Normal said:

One of those is FT the source of the charts including a cumulative P Score I have posted. 

FT - that esteemed Science and Medical Research Journal the Financial Times.

You also quote that esteemed scientist John Burn-Murdoch who graduated from University as a Journalist but did one year postgraduate work studying Data Science and now calls himself a "Data Journalist"!  I won't waste my time posting critiques of his work by people more qualified in epidemics.

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8 hours ago, Plan Covid Normal said:

None use your 'averaging of averages (P Score baseline)' horseshit be it for monthly or greater intervals.

That is your crackpot invention and yours alone.

So you double down rather than admit that the method I used is used by qualified scientists as a means of valid comparison.

Yet the paper I posted written by researchers at Oxford University clearly uses this method.

That negates your assertion that "no one uses that method".

Who is the crackpot?

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10 hours ago, Plan Covid Normal said:

Post something from someone reputable who has "averaged P Score averages" to produce cumulative excess deaths P Scores in exactly the manner you have (not used cumulative raw deaths) and with a time period around the same as yours or around 1 year 4 months, when you say covid deaths started in Scandinavia at the beginning of the year, even though they didn't for months later.

Bet you can't 

I already have and here it is for you again.  Refer page 22 Table 2.  If you don't accept that has ONE then I'll post more including the UK ONS reference.

The paper is written by:

Professor John Muellbauer  Oxford

Janice Arom Senior Research Fellow Oxford

Dr Charlie Giattino Lead Researcher at Ourworldindata 

Dr Hannah Ritchie Head of Research at Ourworldindata 

 

17.10-29-Jun-20-Aron-Muellbauer-Giattino-Ritchie-Excess-Mortality-article.pdf

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25 minutes ago, Plan Covid Normal said:

You still can't produce a P Score averaging example.

I did but you refuse to acknowledge it (page 22 Table 2) - note the paper I have posted on more than one occasion.  Pointless discussing anything with you as you are just a cess pit of misinformation.  I've posted a picture of the data without alteration so others can see that you are full of BS.

You also don't understand P scores and relative comparisons.  In many respects you are akin to Wacko Jacko aka @jack_sparrow (which is interesting in itself - surely he wouldn't create yet another sock!).

25 minutes ago, Plan Covid Normal said:

JBM at FT did the stats assembly & graphics and your World in Data cite FT

Look at FT data sources and comparison notes cited compared to your World in Data.

 

Yes but that data is ultimately sourced from somewhere else.  The so-called "Data Journalist" John Burn-Murdoch has a reputation for misrepresenting data in his analysis.  But rather than go back to the source (note the paper I posted that uses averaged (cumulative P scores) is co-authored by the Head Researchers at Ourworldindata.

Not only do you not understand the data nor P scores you are lazy in your research.

Sharpen up.

 

Page 22 Table 2 - P Score Cummulative Analysis - Copy.png

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57 minutes ago, Plan Covid Normal said:

Respected (not another you) cite for that 'reputational' slur

Bet you can't

Post your name and address for JBM and FT's lawyers.

Bet you don't.

Swine

You're unbelievable.  Just Google critique of John Burn-Murdoch.  Published well before I made an inference.

Have you told him about the mistake that you have found in the Ourworldindata data?  As you say he used the same data for his graphs.

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I see the claims of friends in high places, the multi self quotes, the threats of legal action and the posting at 2 in the morning have all returned.

It unfold with the predictability of a Roman play. 

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7 minutes ago, Plan Covid Normal said:

only problem is it doesn't use your crackpot method to produce a cumulative P Score.

It does actually.

Just total the P scores by week and then divide by the number of weeks.

See how they derived 54 in the first line?  Exactly the same method I used.

(11+61+79+116+113+83+34+45+25+21+7)÷11=54.

I think it is becoming evident to all who the crackpot and misinformer is.

789907812_Page22Table2-PScoreCummulativeAnalysis-Copy.thumb.png.6bb22e669613670a448ef5aecf07dca8.png

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21 minutes ago, Plan Covid Normal said:

Maybe he has a nickname?

Could be right. We have several for you.

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21 minutes ago, Plan Covid Normal said:

More lying

You average each weekly 

Or

Average the sum

Say that it is a cumulative P Score for a period longer than a week

Table 2 right hand column in red (why did they do that) isn't a Cumulative P Score and the page you chopped out says exactly that.

Page 19 also says Table 2 is also not a standalone table.

My last reply to you

It's your last reply because I've shown that you are wrong.  I did exactly what they have done to give a country comparison. 

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48 minutes ago, Plan Covid Normal said:

That is where you find ALL the methodology and data sources used plus the cumulative P Scores (not your average fabrications) are only for ranking purposes.  

Is English your second language or are you Australian?

When was ranking by a number NOT a comparison.

Perhaps your good friend John who you call James would respond to an email from you clearing things up?

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9 minutes ago, Plan Covid Normal said:

Last reply comment because you are a pathological liar and every word typed is a waste of time, which I'm stupidly doing now

You have posted none of your fabricated P Scores for Denmark, Norway, and Finland to make a comparison to real P Scores because they will look ridiculous, just like Swedens and 4 wrong is very obvious.

I have posted previously but you obviously suffer from dementia.  Or you are relying on flooding the Topic with posts to make it harder for anyone to cross check.

Now who do we remember that used that technique frequently.

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4 minutes ago, Plan Covid Normal said:

Koppkaka

Her name was Lola, she was a showgirl
With yellow feathers in her hair and a dress cut down to there
She would merengue and do the cha-cha
And while she tried to be a star
Tony always tended bar
Across the crowded floor, they worked from eight til four
They were young and they had each other
Who could ask for more?
At the copa (co) Copacabana (Copacabana)
The hottest spot north of Havana (here)
At the copa (co) Copacabana
Music and passion were always the fashion
At the copa they fell in love
Copa, Copacabana
His name was Rico
He wore a diamond
He was escorted to his chair, he saw Lola dancing there
And when she finished, he called her over
But Rico went a bit to far
Tony sailed across the bar
And then the punches flew and chairs were smashed in two
There was blood and a single gun shot
But just who shot who?
At the copa (co) Copacabana (Copacabana)
The hottest spot north of Havana (here)
At the copa (co) Copacabana
Music and passion were always the fashion
At the copa, she lost her love
(Copa, Copacabana)
(Copa, Copacabana)
(Copacabana)
like in Havana
(Copa, banana)
Music and passion were always in fashion
Her name is Lola, she was a showgirl
But that was thirty years ago, when they used to have a show
Now it's a disco, but not for Lola
Still in dress she used to wear
Faded feathers in her hair
She sits there so refined, and drinks herself half-blind
She lost her youth and she lost her Tony
Now she's lost her mind
At the copa (co) Copacabana (Copacabana)
The hottest spot north of Havana (here)
At the copa (co) Copacabana
Music and passion were always in fashion
At the copa don't fall in love
don't fall in love
(Copacabana)
(Copacabana)
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58 minutes ago, Plan Covid Normal said:

My last reply to you

That went well for you. Self control has never been one of your strong points has it Jack?

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Just now, Plan Covid Normal said:

Are you the class clown?

Yes sorry that position is taken however your old position of Arse clown is still available.

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6 hours ago, LB 15 said:

I see the claims of friends in high places, the multi self quotes, the threats of legal action and the posting at 2 in the morning have all returned.

It unfold with the predictability of a Roman play. 

My RSI from scrolling was returning and I realised the same.

A00A2B1B-4A0A-433E-82F5-E973C8AD98DC.jpeg

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13 hours ago, Plan Covid Normal said:

You have  fabricated Sweden 6% or 6.01796875% to be precise

You have posted no fabricated Denmark. Finland or Norway P Scores

I haven't fabricated anything.  They are comparative cumulative Scores over the duration of the pandemic using the same method as Professor Muellbauer (Oxford University), Janice Arom Senior Research Fellow Oxford, Dr Charlie Giattino Lead Researcher at Ourworldindata, Dr Hannah Ritchie Head of Research at Ourworldindata.

You say that 6% excess deaths for Sweden for 14 months of the pandemic is a fabricated figure.  So what is the correct percentage?

Is it not the same as your good friend John who you call James?

 

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11 hours ago, Plan Covid Normal said:

You even got greedy and cut your 6.01796875% by 0.1% to put a 5 in front of Sweden

Not correct the raw calculations were as follows:

5.925384615
6.484677419

Now you should know that it is a nonsense to represent calculations at a greater number of decimal placings than the original data (2 in this case).  

So rounding to the same number of decimal places.  We get:

5.93

6.49

The difference between the first and the second is the first is an average of all the data in the Ourworldindata data file I.e. from Wk1 of 2020.

The second figure was adjusted to exclude the first two weeks to accommodate your criticism that no cases of  Covid had occurred in Sweden in those weeks.  

So nope no skulduggery with the figures as you falsely infer.

The fact is that depending on what measure for excess deaths you use Sweden experienced somewhere between 6 and 7% in 2020.

If you extend the measure to include all the months of the pandemic (which is mathematically correct to do so) then the percentage is less than 6%.

You may not have picked up yet but the figures using the same method in the research paper as I have were comparing the pandemic case curves of the first wave.  

 

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10 minutes ago, Plan Covid Normal said:

used your spreadsheet with data as posted

If you have another spreadsheet with other data that is your problem, not mine. 

Regardless they are still fabricated numbers, just different ones with a variance of zip.

Can you get it into your thick skull that I didn't post MY spreadsheet I posted the CSV file from Ourworldindata.

If the numbers are fabricated then take it up with them!  However their data is correct and can be traced back to its source.  But you are too lazy to do that and rely on mainstream media like the Financial Times to do shyte analysis.  

What were you "Chief" of - bottle washing?

Have you contacted your "good friend James" (real name John) yet?

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2 hours ago, Plan Covid Normal said:

You say your fabricated Cumulative P Scores method using World in Data's data is valid, say it is utilised by others (which you can't cite); 

Liar.  You really aren't that good at Numbers are you "Chief"?

 

 

2 hours ago, Plan Covid Normal said:

The spreadsheet you posted was just numbers with no indication of the author or source data. 

I posted instructions on how to download the same file. 

image.png.b76740429176cf3170b933d83c43c74b.png

 

789907812_Page22Table2-PScoreCummulativeAnalysis-Copy.thumb.png.6bb22e669613670a448ef5aecf07dca8.png

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4 minutes ago, Plan Covid Normal said:

It is like conversing with a drunken person. 

Or like conversing with yourself!

847eed2503bf544f997b97a76a573cde.gif

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8 minutes ago, Plan Covid Normal said:

Table 2 already dealt with at lenghth multiple posts.

That is NOT an example of your method for fabricating ACTUAL Cumulative P Scores. The Table says exactly that, on the page you deleted and keep deleting

The * doesn't specifically link to the explanation list item you draw the arrow to.  In any event your attempt at obfuscation is clearly transparent to anyone with a modicum of intelligence and literacy.

I didn't delete anything as I actually have posted twice the ENTRIE research paper.  It appears you haven't read it.

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The total number of deaths from all causes for Sweden in 2020 was 94,000.  

The average for 2015-2019 is 88,000.

So the difference is 6,000 which equates to just over 6% more than the previous 5 years (note this correlates closely to the cumulative P Score method).  6,000 is roughly half the number of Covid-19 deaths for 2020 (the total from 1 Jan 2020 to today 28 Apr 2021 is 14,000).

These figures can be confirmed on this page: 

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/excess-mortality-raw-death-count?country=~SWE

The all country raw data can also be downloaded as a CSV file.

Note:  a CSV file is NOT a spreadsheet but is a data text file with the data items separated by comma's.  One poster seems to want to confuse people.

 

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Sweden in the deaths per million global comparison on Worldometers.info is now 31st I.e.  30 countries have done worse than Sweden.  

If you compare Sweden to 26 other European countries they rank 18th.   Which is a more realistic comparison than comparing just to its Nordic neighbours.  At the very least one should include ALL the Baltic states as they are just as close.

Which raises an interesting point regarding comparisons.  Should New York and California be compared with Florida and Texas?

image.png.1585df04c9859e8ebf411f958b219cee.png

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9 hours ago, Plan Covid Normal said:

You are a down voting demon

ha ha

You are a 666 candidate, thought I'd get it started.

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Do you have a problem discussing topics in a civil and cogent manner?

Do you not have an opinion on the relevance of comparing one country with another or one state with another when they are geographically distant or demographically different?

For example is comparing New York with Florida of value?

Or Sweden with Germany?  Given the latter are a lot lot closer to each other than the former are to each other.

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5 minutes ago, Plan Covid Normal said:

Why did you chop the table in half to delete it this section? Make your posts short like your name.

For no other reason than the fact that the table is spread across two pages.  However to counter the conspiracists, such as yourself, I posted the entire original document.

The actual notes on the table don't support your argument nor do they diminish the fact that both the authors AND I used the same method to do a comparison.

 

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6 minutes ago, Plan Covid Normal said:

So Kate whats Denmarks, Finlands and Norway's numbers under your new method, and also one you won't find published anywhere?

I posted those in this Topic but obviously you find forum software and the internet challenging.  I guess when you were "Chief" you had minions doing it all for you.

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11 minutes ago, Plan Covid Normal said:

This is hilarious.

Cant find anyone who uses your crackpot P Score so you now try and make your fabricated 6% match another 6%

So Kate whats Denmarks, Finlands and Norway's numbers under your new method, and also one you won't find published anywhere?

Don't you remember this post?

Is 5 days too much for your memory?

 

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5 minutes ago, Plan Covid Normal said:

Got no problem with the sum being used for ranking. Already said that.

It is not the actual P Score for the period that you are making it by averaging.

FFS you really are thick.  They AVERAGED the P Scores and THEN ranked them.  The base numbers used for ranking were AVERAGED P SCORES!

Duh A=54 is less than B=55 therefore A is ranked 1 and B is ranked 2.

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22 minutes ago, Plan Covid Normal said:

Interesting, his gag has been loosened a bit. Thats why I asked.

The vid reference was obviously because the core assumptions in Swedish guys & Sweden's/WHO's pre-covid pandemic response plan turned out to be very wrong, noting you still subscribe to it

That's where your assumptions are wrong.

The pre-Covid pandemic planning was based on a virus with a CFR and IFR greater than Covid.

The likely candidates were identified and some key researchers identified a variant of SARS as being the likely candidate.

The planning took a holistic approach assessing various strategies and outcomes not just for short term.pacts but longer term as well.

It was determined that large scale lockdowns should only be used as a last resort and only to suppress infection rates to stop health systems collapsing.

Masks were identified as having limited efficacy and weren't recommended.

A key concept was identifying and protecting the vulnerable while allowing the non vulnerable to continue as normal.  

Closing schools where the virus had low mortality in those age groups was not considered as an option.  Again looking at a holistic approach.

There is ample evidence now when comparing the strategies that various countries and states took and the outcomes that the wasn't too much wrong with those decades of planning.

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51 minutes ago, Plan Covid Normal said:

Simply said he and Tegnells core assumptions in their pre-covid pandemic response plan ended up being wrong.

Thats a yes or no answer

If it is a yes/no answer then the answer is clearly no the plan wasn't wrong.

The evidence to support that is the little difference between lockdowns vs no lockdowns; masks vs no masks.  However lockdowns have longer term negative effects that will take time to measure although there is ample evidence now.

Same with keeping junior schools open vs closing them.  There is no significant difference between closing or opening then on infection rates yet it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realise the benefits of young children continuing to be educated, socialising and in many instances fed are significant.

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10 hours ago, Plan Covid Normal said:

So you say the plans assumptions for IFR/CFR were too high,

but the plan was right,

yet you can't come up with one other assumption in the plan be it right or wrong.

I didn't say that the IFR/CFR rates used in planning were "too high".  What I actually said was that they planned for something WORSE than Covid-19. That isn't getting it wrong that is erring on the side of caution.

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1 minute ago, Plan Covid Normal said:

No point discussing anything with you.

You can't lie straight in bed.

 

21 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

The pre-Covid pandemic planning was based on a virus with a CFR and IFR greater than Covid

 

Which is a correct way to plan.

Plan for the worst and hope for the best.

Geez did you have minions doing the Strategic planning for you when you were "Chief"?

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34 minutes ago, Plan Covid Normal said:

Fuck off.

You just went on ignore which I should have done long ago.

'Long ago'? You only started this sock puppet a few weeks ago you dickwad. Forgetting who we are logged on as perhaps? No easy task I would imagine, managing two active accounts when both are bloviating essay writers and both have multiple shitfights on the go simultaneously . Not to mention the time spent researching Googling.

Everyone needs a hobby I guess.

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Jack's life is SA.  And being scared of a disease with a 99.9 plus survival rate.

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52 minutes ago, Wess said:

Jack's life is SA.  And being scared of a disease with a 99.9 plus survival rate.

Really Wess

Why do I promote the opening up of borders when your 99.9 plus are too scared to?

Why do I label Australian State Premiers that have snap lockdowns as "bed-wetters"?

Wess who here sits in your 99.9 plus and supports the "bed-wetters"?

If your are going to be a 'toadie' Wess at least tell the truth.

....agh sorry I forget that's a problem for you too.

 

 IMG_20210428_224117.thumb.jpg.86947f236a610ec7afe0b24330c3ba0e.jpg

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On 5/2/2021 at 8:28 AM, jack_sparrow said:

Why do I label Australian State Premiers that have snap lockdowns as "bed-wetters"?

My good they would be wounded if the found out an anonymous troll on the internet was calling them nasty names like that! They would be especially mortified when it is coming from someone with such a successful career in...what exactly did you do before retiring becoming unemployed Jack?

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1 hour ago, LB 15 said:

My good they would be wounded if the found out an anonymous troll on the internet was calling them nasty names like that! They would be especially mortified when it is coming from someone with such a successful career in...what exactly did you do before retiring becoming unemployed Jack?

He probably thinks of himself as an influencer....

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On 5/1/2021 at 6:28 PM, jack_sparrow said:

Really Wess

Blah blah blah blah

 

On 5/1/2021 at 6:28 PM, jack_sparrow said:

 

Wait, what?! So you really think I read most of your stuff beyond the first little bit to see how far off the reservation you are this time? I mean I will dig in and keep reading if it’s stupid funny but beyond that I have no clue if or what you think lol. 
 

Dude you are comic relief. Sorry if you were going for something more.

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Looks like Jack has abandoned his sock puppet since I started putting shit on him about it. 

Dance Jackieboi, dance.

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12 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

Looks like Jack has abandoned his sock puppet since I started putting shit on him about it. 

Dance Jackieboi, dance.

Na he hasn't abandoned it but has become less circumspect about covering his tracts.  For example both started using the term "toad" and its derivatives at the same time.

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1 hour ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Na he hasn't abandoned it but has become less circumspect about covering his tracts.  For example both started using the term "toad" and its derivatives at the same time.

He admitted it in the other thread. Claims he only started it to avoid being trolled. Nothing about him being banned then posting as sock puppet while still banned. The stupid obsessed prick just can not stay away from this place. He will be punted again for good in the near future.

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38 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

None or all you just made that 99.99 shit up - that's all I came here for.

Sober up and try again.

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I am so interested in the outcomes from Sweden's Covid response that I fall for the new responses every time hoping for some objective analysis. 

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1 hour ago, danstanford said:

I am so interested in the outcomes from Sweden's Covid response that I fall for the new responses every time hoping for some objective analysis. 

32 countries have done worse in deaths per million.

Seems though that the excess deaths are at about 6% for the duration of the pandemic so far but that is dropping as the pandemic progresses.  

That is the average Covid mortality age is no different to the normal mortality age.  When looking at an average over 2019 through to the current date there aren't many excess deaths.

There were deferred deaths from 2019 and early deaths from 2021 occurring in 2020.

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9 hours ago, danstanford said:

I am so interested in the outcomes from Sweden's Covid response that I fall for the new responses every time hoping for some objective analysis. 

The good news is: you're an optimist.

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Sweden has done better than 32 other countries.

The average age of covid mortality in Sweden is the same as the average mortality rate.

The flaw in Wacko Jackos post (using his sock @Plan Covid Normal) is that even with the policy changes (the majority being recommendations not draconian laws) the pandemic followed its natural course.

If Jackos rant is correct (which it isn't) then it only serves to prove that more so called stringent regulations make no difference.

Meanwhile school children continued to go to school and have in class education.

Whichever way you look at Sweden have successfully managed the pandemic.  When excess deaths are measured across the pandemic and using a linear trend baseline the percentage will be lower than 5%.  How much lower is still be measured.

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PSA:

Sweden is 32nd in deaths per million inhabitants.

It ranks 12th in cases per million.

Not bad for a country with the same population density than Somalia. Not bad at all.

Carry on.

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17 minutes ago, Matagi said:

Sweden is 32nd in deaths per million inhabitants.

Yes an excellent result especially in minimising collateral deaths as well.

17 minutes ago, Matagi said:

It ranks 12th in cases per million.

Not that that statistic is relevant one could say that in terms of testing efficiency they did well.  I note you don't lost the metric of how many test per million were undertaken.  Nor the method of testing nor the number of false positives.  

Also when comparing deaths to tests it seems their health system performed better than most as well.

Let's face all you anti-Swedens approach got it wrong.

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15 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Sweden has done better than 32 other countries.

No.

The average age of covid mortality in Sweden is the same as the average mortality rate.

The old 'let'em die it's only the old' argument. Becoming more and more an outdated sort of argument.

The flaw in Wacko Jackos post (using his sock @Plan Covid Normal)

He's not.

is that even with the policy changes (the majority being recommendations not draconian laws) the pandemic followed its natural course.

Yeah? Ask Brazil about that natural course. Or India. Turns out: that natural course comes in many variants.

If Jackos rant is correct (which it isn't) then it only serves to prove that more so called stringent regulations make no difference.

People like you make it to make no difference.

Meanwhile school children continued to go to school and have in class education.

The notion that Sweden kept its entire educational system open is wrong.

Whichever way you look at Sweden have successfully managed the pandemic.  When excess deaths are measured across the pandemic and using a linear trend baseline the percentage will be lower than 5%.  How much lower is still be measured.

Whichever way you look? Yeah. Just not from the left border, please.

Sweden:

image.png.1b846e0efd3d52de46cf6131eacfb0bd.png

Norway:

image.png.e76dbc176d4347632a1ce7fe4d63a400.png

 

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11 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Not that that statistic is relevant one could say that in terms of testing efficiency they did well. 

They rank 46th.

Lower than Latvia, Turks and Caicos, Georgia and Russia, to name a few.

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13 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Also when comparing deaths to tests it seems their health system performed better than most as well.

Headline from the FT, dated 13 December 2020, so almost 3/4 year into the sh*t:

Sweden’s neighbours offer medical help as second Covid wave intensifies

Stockholm region reports 99% of its intensive care beds are full but Finland and Norway stand ready to assist.
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17 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Let's face all you anti-Swedens approach got it wrong.

Whatever you say, fanboy, whatever...

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15 minutes ago, Matagi said:

Headline from the FT, dated 13 December 2020, so almost 3/4 year into the sh*t:

Sweden’s neighbours offer medical help as second Covid wave intensifies

Stockholm region reports 99% of its intensive care beds are full but Finland and Norway stand ready to assist.

Source?  Or is this another media report of inaccurate journalism?

Data?

Sweden well on the way to recovery with significantly less collateral damage than the "hero" States.

Amazing how they looked after their children.  What a far sighted and unselfish approach.

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8 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Sweden well on the way to recovery with significantly less collateral damage than the "hero" States.

Amazing how they looked after their children.  What a far sighted and unselfish approach.

Source?

Data?

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2 minutes ago, Matagi said:

Source?

Data?

No need it is a well established fact, on their Government website and dare I say it not disputed by the Doom and Gloom naysayers such as yourself.

Keeping those schools made no difference to the pandemic but the good health and unbroken education of Sweden's youth bodes well for that country's future.

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No need it is a well established fact,

Can I borrow that in the future, you master debater, you?

on their Government website

What? So governments ARE reputable and well-accepted sources. Hear hear.

and dare I say it not disputed by the Doom and Gloom naysayers such as yourself.

Nay.

Keeping those schools made no difference to the pandemic but the good health and unbroken education of Sweden's youth bodes well for that country's future

That you?

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Matagi said:

No need it is a well established fact,

Which you don't dispute.

Whereas you accept "Stockholm's Hospitals were 99% full"!

What date or for how long you don't elucidate.

As for schools being open spend some time researching - start here:

https://www.krisinformation.se/en/hazards-and-risks/disasters-and-incidents/2020/official-information-on-the-new-coronavirus/schools-and-childcare

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3 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Whereas you accept "Stockholm's Hospitals were 99% full"!

What date or for how long you don't elucidate.

Because it's a well-established fact.

It was written.

On an internet-page. 

...

How does your own 'argument' ring? Pretty hollow, right? 

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9 minutes ago, Matagi said:

Because it's a well-established fact.

It was written.

On an internet-page. 

...

How does your own 'argument' ring? Pretty hollow, right? 

What's your point?  That's right you don't have one other than to bag Sweden for its pandemic strategy.

Google this:  Sweden excess mortality 1.5% Oxford University.

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15 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

What's your point?  That's right you don't have one other than to bag Sweden for its pandemic strategy.

Google this:  Sweden excess mortality 1.5% Oxford University.

Wow. Great toy, thanks.

Can you tell Norway and Sweden apart? 

Because: I can...

20210504_225849.thumb.jpg.91858cfa5c9a7735fd7942f46c392dfc.jpg

 

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21 minutes ago, Matagi said:

Can you tell Norway and Sweden apart? 

Now take the next step and work out the factors why Norway is an outlier?

Bet you can't because multi-factorial analysis is beyond you.

Then explain why Sweden has done better than the majority of European countries.

Sweden have done a fantastic job.  Their children are extremely grateful that unlike many of their cohort in the rest of the world their health, well-being and education has been protected.  

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1 minute ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Now take the next step and work out the factors why Norway is an outlier?

Bet you can't because multi-factorial analysis is beyond you.

Then explain why Sweden has done better than the majority of European countries.

Sweden have done a fantastic job.  Their children are extremely grateful that unlike many of their cohort in the rest of the world their health, well-being and education has been protected.  

A propaganda masterclass.

For amateurs.

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