Jump to content

The Swedish Experiment


Recommended Posts

18 minutes ago, Hawke said:

These are normalised z-scores showing excess mortality!  They are not annual mortality rates! 

I'm not interested in your bullshit make-believe annual shitfuckery. This is real bodies in real body bags and it's now August.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 2k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

First of all:  how is your trip to Spain going? Now. Any single person who doesn’t die from this is excellent news. And anyone who doesn’t contract the virus is also good news. For starters

Everyone in this thread is probably in a nursing home. They sound like Joe Biden trying to form a cognitive sentence.    "Uh, but, cases only, g.g.g.g.go down with lock-down." 'If you don't w

Im hazarding a guess that you have never had to walk into the waiting room and tell a husband, son daughter father that their wife mother daughter has passed. Because today in the USA 512 doctors or n

Posted Images

41 minutes ago, Hawke said:

However it hasn't tanked as much as others.

Doesn't change the plan of Economy not going to shit but it did no matter how hard you try and spin it.

Maybe close Nordic numbers in -GDP....but not in Nordic death numbers.....

5,776 in Sweden versus

257 in Norway...  ouch.....

621 in Denmark ....more ouch & they 2X denser...

333 in Finland...fuck more ouch and finally

10 in Iceland... ogh fuck me.

5,776 (1) versus 1,221 (4)

Stirling work there Sweden...your 4 kinsome though think you are fucking morons.

Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, Hawke said:

There are 53,824 people are in "body bags" over the 6 months of Covid.  NON-Covid deaths represents 90% of those deaths.  Which "real bodies" are more important the the others?

You are fighting a losing battle because as time progresses the statistics will become less alarming as the denominator increases.  You will have less to alarm people with.

Why stop at a year ....make it 4 years and Covid is only 2.5%, . Shit make it 20 years and you can make Covid disappear.

Cunts like you deserved a week in ICU gasping for air.

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Hawke said:

As I said earlier lets just let the timeline progress.  The longer this goes on the less relevant your alarmist views will be.

Your epidemic mortality timelines are legendary ...cunt magic.

This is a pretty good line up in a timeline too. Really wish you were in one of them. 

images - 2020-07-25T011150.625.jpeg

Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Hawke said:

You obviously don't understand the concept of excess deaths.

Says the grubby cunt who totally ignores ACTUAL Nordic 5 "excess mortality" to Aug 2020 so he can use a historical mortality baseline difference (that has now gone out the window). 

This nonsense is then used to construct a hypothetical annual mortality comparison based only on reported Covid mortality that averages around 30% under reported depending on country. 

You are a fraudulent lying cunt.

Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Hawke said:

Now that NZ has proven lockdowns and closing your borders doesn't work

I couldn't give two fucks about your own NZ border shit and you hatred for your own Govt response to Covid....which is what has you pumped up on the murderous alternative.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Hawke said:

That statement is a complete nonsense.  Suggest you go check Sweden's criteria.  Their's is pretty tight and indeed they criticise other countries looseness.

Keeping on spinning bullshit. Criteria is meaningless. Simply compare excess mortality to official Covid count. Excess mortality is the gold standard for counting epidemic mortality, as per world statistics standards.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Hawke said:

You only have to compare stringency levels in States in the USA. .... Lockdowns DON'T work.

"Lockdowns DON'T work"

Why do Sweden lock down large gatherings, high schools and others? 

More straw and diversion to your fraud. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Thanks Upp. That might shut Mr Straw up... though I seriously doubt it.

Him thinking the Eurozone and EU are the same says it all.

Preliminary number for q2 in Finland is -3.2%. Official number will be published 28th. https://www.talouselama.fi/uutiset/yllatyslukema-suomen-bkt-laski-ennakkotiedon-mukaan-koronakevaana-vain-3-2-ekonomistit-epauskoisia/d248b7ab-649d-4ac7-bd64-26d12e62fe5d

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

So HawkeCunt we have two 2nd Qtr GDP's in and two to go.

Things not looking to fucking good for your Sweden love affair son. :lol:

Finland's GDP nearly 3 times better in the 2nd Qtr where their "suppression" started in late March. Contrary to 2020 forecast  Finland is also doing better. Don't forget Finlands deaths to date also ONLY 333 and Sweden sitting on 5,776. 

Nordic GDP

Sweden 1st Q +0.1% 2nd Q -8.6%
Finland 1st Q -4.6% 2nd Q -3.2% *
Norway 1st Q -1.5%.  pending
Denmark 1st Q -2.0%.  pending

* Preliminary pending actual 28th Aug

Swedens economy so far is going tits up compared to their neighbours, BUT it wasn't supposed to be like that having only mitigation and no closures. That plan has gone to custard.

So HawkeCunt you really might want think twice about these "runaway" posts of yours...you are looking very fucking stupid ...some might say even a fraudulent lying cunt. :lol: 

7 hours ago, Hawke said:

Keep running Sparrow.  Keep running.

 

23 hours ago, Hawke said:

...Try again and find some more figures for the rest of us to dispute with facts.

22 hours ago, Upp3 said:

No stats available for Finland, Denmark and Iceland for Q2

22 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

I didn't dispute your numbers in fact supported them. I objected to you not using Nordic/economic comparables. I have only the most recent incl of 1st Qtr actuals. You had no comparables at all.

You are a lying cunt.

12 hours ago, Hawke said:

List the Q1 actuals then.

9 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

They are inside the bars.. I can't work out how to open them up. :lol:

  IMG_20200813_173147.jpg.2fd5a3968ad36e4b15f615159ea4a732.jpg

8 hours ago, Hawke said:

GDP Quarterly actual figures:

Sweden 1st Q +0.1% 2nd Q -8.6%
Norway 1st Q -1.5%
Finland 1st Q -4.6%
Denmark 1st Q -2.0%
Austria 1st Q -1.4% 2nd Q -10.7%
Czechia 1st Q -3.4% 2nd Q -8.4%
Germany 1st Q -2.0% 2nd Q -10%

 

screenshot-ec.europa.eu-2020.08.14-10_34_59.png

8 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Great well done.

Doesn't change anything. Swedens economy tanked just like everyone else's, BUT it wasn't supposed to with only mitigation and no closures. 

7 hours ago, Hawke said:

Keep running Sparrow.  Keep running.

1 hour ago, Upp3 said:

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Hawke said:

Shall we wait until 28th August 2020?

I put it there to be accurate ....you should try that and scare the fuck out of everyone.

You got more to say about your magic Swedish economy? :lol:

You have also "forgotton" something.....I use the word very loosely. You know citing your claim of "increasing evidence that community immunity  is happening."

17 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

There is increasing evidence that community  immunity is happening."

..with an unambiguous request. 

"Authoritive cite your claim OR horseshit. Take your  pick."

Maybe this will also help you out :lol:

Up to 6% of England’s population may have had Covid, study shows

On 8/13/2020 at 7:05 AM, Hawke said:

There is increasing evidence that community immunity is happening. 

On 8/13/2020 at 10:36 AM, jack_sparrow said:

"There is increasing evidence that community  immunity is happening."

Authoritive cite your claim OR horseshit. Take your pick.

Hint you have to better this. "A study in late May suggested that 6.1% of Sweden’s population had developed coronavirus antibodies. In June, data from Swedens Public Health Agency indicated that about 10% of people in Stockholm, the worst-affected region, had antibodies." 

Then add in studies have shown any immunity only lasts a short time.

0_GlMiQGVLYF6oPAh-.png

On 8/13/2020 at 2:10 PM, jack_sparrow said:

Isn't funny how the "herd immunity" crowd never mention Sweden's high death toll globaly and particularly compared to its Nordic neighbours....

..They never ask themselves the question that if "herd immunity" is founded on Covid having a low/manageable IFR, but that has proven not to be the case, then isn't the whole approach wrong for everyone, not just the aged?

They never ask themselves the question, what would have happened if the Govt transmission rate target of 60% of the population HAD occured, not the fraction which HAS occured?

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, Hawke said:

Do you know any other adjectives?  Or do we need to keep seeing your lack of education and class?

I picked up "fraudulent lying cunt" at Oxford and found it saves a lot of time. I use it combined as a noun to identify a certain class of people.....in your case from the fraudulent, lying and or cunty class, which are the three adjectives you are probably looking to avoid. You alone determine their use, not I.

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

 Nordic GDP

Sweden 1st Q +0.1% 2nd Q -8.6%
Finland 1st Q -4.6% 2nd Q -3.2% *
Norway 1st Q -1.5%.  pending
Denmark 1st Q -2.0%.  pending

* Preliminary pending actual 28th Aug

4 hours ago, Hawke said:

Shall we wait until 28th August 2020?

 

Don't have to wait until the 28th for Denmark. It's in at -7.4% and another chicken dinner. One more and a confirmation and it's all over...well until Q3.

So we have.

Deaths/Nordic GDP

5,776 ** Sweden   1st Q +0.1% 2nd Q -8.6%
333        Finland     1st Q -4.6% 2nd Q -3.2% *
257        Norway    1st Q -1.5%.  pending
621        Denmark  1st Q -2.0%. 2nd Q -7.4%

* Preliminary pending actual 28th Aug

** Sweden's ranks 6th in the world for deaths per capita.

So much for having no lock-downs from late March to save Sweden's economy. Could have the economic same result and a lot more people still breathing.

Eurostat - Excess Mortality (In red Sweden is only country still above its "mean" mortality Baseline)

IMG_20200814_083911.thumb.jpg.64a34d43c5f6d60846e7d40d13adca4f.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

This Employment Survey explains why the Nordic economies are faring well in Europe and further shoots down the "herd immunity" bullshit. High Nordic employment participation, yet very low mortality except Sweden.

However it doesn't explain why Sweden that does the best, ends up with the worst Q2 result, not the best of the Nordic bunch?

IMG_20200815_044909.thumb.jpg.1a18c4b7c38ba8ac1746bc734f8b0461.jpg

Here is part of an explanation why Sweden is incurring a harder hit and behind that the reduction in mobility in Europe. Remember that closed southern bridge with Denmark (that ironicaly helped produce the least cases in all of Sweden) and Sweden that is land locked at the best of times.

 Sweden Unemployment Rate Highest Since Mid-2005   

7 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Don't have to wait until the 28th for Denmark. It's in at -7.4% and another chicken dinner. One more and a confirmation and it's all over...well until Q3.

As to Q3 and the balance of 2020?

This larger-than-expected increase in Swedish unemployment has continued into July. So while economic conditions are expected to improve in Q3, Sweden may well continue to lag behind the Nordic 4.

Time will tell and I don't know, but I suspect Swedens reliance on the auto/transport export sector might have something to do with it. Global passenger vehicle sales have fallen off a cliff.

The herd 'immunity' canard is rearing its ugly head again in the west and it needs to be stomped on hard. This economic outcome for Sweden has arrived at a helpful time to aid the stomping.

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Deaths/Nordic GDP

5,776 ** Sweden   1st Q +0.1% 2nd Q -8.6%
333        Finland     1st Q -4.6% 2nd Q -3.2% *
257        Norway    1st Q -1.5%.  pending
621        Denmark  1st Q -2.0%. 2nd Q -7.4%

* Preliminary pending actual 28th Aug

** Sweden's ranks 6th in the world for deaths per capita.

So much for having no lock-downs from late March to save Sweden's economy. Could have the economic same result and a lot more people still breathing.

Eurostat - Excess Mortality (In red Sweden is only country still above its "mean" mortality Baseline)

  IMG_20200814_083911.thumb.jpg.64a34d43c5f6d60846e7d40d13adca4f.jpg

 

And mortality per capita to finish the story.

 

EfVEug4XkAEeEvU.jpeg

EfY6q93XsAQ6xX2.jpeg

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Hawke said:

Give it time Sparrow Fart the rest of the world will catch up.

"Give it time Sparrow Fart the rest of the world will catch up."

"There is increasing evidence that community immunity  is happening."

HawkeAllTalk you keep saying all that and you can't or refuse to back it up. All piss and wind.

You are a "fraudulent, lying, dangerous cunt." and you know that, OR you can't stomach reading the truth, can you HawkeAllTalkCunt.

Royal Society of Medicine - "Covid-19: herd immunity in Sweden fails to materialise" Published 12 August 2020.

Swedish PM orders inquiry into handling of virus. "The time had come for Sweden to shift its approach." "Now the question is how Sweden should change, not if." Stefan Lofven Prime Minister.

13 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

You have also "forgotton" something.....I use the word very loosely. You know citing your claim of "increasing evidence that community immunity  is happening."

On 8/14/2020 at 12:21 AM, jack_sparrow said:

"There is increasing evidence that community  immunity is happening."

..with an unambiguous request. 

"Authoritive cite your claim OR horseshit. Take your  pick."

Maybe this will also help you out :lol:

Up to 6% of England’s population may have had Covid, study shows

On 8/13/2020 at 7:05 AM, Hawke said:

There is increasing evidence that community immunity is happening. 

On 8/13/2020 at 10:36 AM, jack_sparrow said:

"There is increasing evidence that community  immunity is happening."

Authoritive cite your claim OR horseshit. Take your pick.

Hint you have to better this. "A study in late May suggested that 6.1% of Sweden’s population had developed coronavirus antibodies. In June, data from Swedens Public Health Agency indicated that about 10% of people in Stockholm, the worst-affected region, had antibodies." 

Then add in studies have shown any immunity only lasts a short time.

0_GlMiQGVLYF6oPAh-.png

On 8/13/2020 at 2:10 PM, jack_sparrow said:

Isn't funny how the "herd immunity" crowd never mention Sweden's high death toll globaly and particularly compared to its Nordic neighbours....

..They never ask themselves the question that if "herd immunity" is founded on Covid having a low/manageable IFR, but that has proven not to be the case, then isn't the whole approach wrong for everyone, not just the aged?

They never ask themselves the question, what would have happened if the Govt transmission rate target of 60% of the population HAD occured, not the fraction which HAS occured?

 

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, Hawke said:

...However you, as a typical propagandist, keep publishing the same shyte day after day (if not hourly) with the intention of "if I publish it often enough it must be true."

The facts would suggest otherwise.

 

screenshot-www.worldometers.info-2020.08.15-09_30_23.png

"..you, as a typical propagandist, keep publishing the same shyte day after day (if not hourly) with the intention of "if I publish it often enough it must be true."

I'm not the Royal Society of Medicine, Prof Orlowski, Prof Goldsmith or The Times or the Swedish Prime Minister. If you want to call them liars and their published work shite, go knock yourself out. 

Royal Society of Medicine - "Covid-19: herd immunity in Sweden fails to materialise" Published 12 August 2020.

Swedish PM orders inquiry into handling of virus. "The time had come for Sweden to shift its approach." "Now the question is how Sweden should change, not if." Stefan Lofven Prime Minister.

"The facts would suggest otherwise ".

Yes facts do matter ...in this case they are called your "missing facts."

For instance current low number of confirmed cases?

How about Sweden schools, businesses etc are are CLOSED for summer holidays. Schools start back next week. 

How's that for multi-variant analysis.  :lol:

You are a "fraudulent, lying, dangerous cunt" HawkeAllTalkCunt.

Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, Hawke said:

With regard to your herd immunity anti-argument you are blind to the evidence.  You base your argument only on the efficacy and spread of antibodies and NOT the complete immunity picture which includes the whole biological immunity response including T-cells. 

I'm quite happy listening to herd immunity arguments put forward by experts and anyone with some degree intelligence and morality..

I just don't listen to whackjob dangerous immoral conartists like you who say they know more than people like these. 

Royal Society of Medicine - "Covid-19: herd immunity in Sweden fails to materialise" Published 12 August 2020.

Up to 6% of England’s population may have had Covid, study shows

"A study in late May suggested that 6.1% of Sweden’s population had developed coronavirus antibodies. In June, data from Swedens Public Health Agency indicated that about 10% of people in Stockholm, the worst-affected region, had antibodies." 

Study raises questions over long-term COVID-19 immunity

Studies Report Rapid Loss of COVID-19 Antibodies

So go fuck yourself

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Hawke said:

You obviously haven't read that paper.  For a start it is a commentary piece i.e. an opinion piece.  It is NOT a research paper

The same commentary piece that has this link to the research paper.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0141076820945282

You are one sad cunt. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, Hawke said:

You obviously haven't read that paper.  For a start it is a commentary piece i.e. an opinion piece.  It is NOT a research paper

25 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

The same commentary piece that has this link to the research paper.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0141076820945282

 

OK we covered that off. Then it's an "opinion piece.It is NOT a research paper" 

Now the really fucking funny bit. You avoid quoting anything in the research paper, instead prefering this from the lowly opinion piece.

In short no one can judge fairly right or wrong what was done correctly for 1 - 2 years.

Fair enough. However people do have a choice TODAY if they want to die or not. 

Therefore why don't you leave the security of NZ and practise what you preach?

Until you do that, you can just fuck off. 

36 minutes ago, Hawke said:

I draw your attention to the last line of that "opinion piece":

Only once we can fully understand both the pandemic and the impact of the measures that were taken – after 1–2 years at least – can we then begin fairly to judge what was done correctly.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

There is no escape from a virus this infectious. Eventually all boats will rise or fall to similar levels. If you are fat and unhealthy go hide until medical science can help you and God help you if you think what will come out of that approach will be all that soon or safe. If you are stupid and don’t understand aerosol science wear a mask and hang around those of similar ilk and believe you are now immortal or safe. 

Sadly nobody can hide forever and sooner or later the fat and dumb do and will die when the virus finds you. Sooner all later all boats will float at the same level. Later and not sooner enough of the healthy will have had it and survived that it’s not an issue anymore until the next one comes and takes the weak. It’s God’s design and it’s been that way for billions of years. Foolish to think you can change that but go ahead and hide if you want. 
 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Hawke said:

Thank god for that - I want have to put up with your inane inaccurate propagandist rebuttal.

source.gif

Hawke or is it Bruce :lol:

I'm sure you were very happy posting that thinking I was gone ...but you could not help yourself could ..wanting desperately to spread your Convid religion.

First stalking me to a thread that was last active in May which I kicked off today.

Contraversial Posts is a Cunt 

And this one

Aussie Government blow it (again).

Three words are now trending. 

SOCK

@Hawke

@Bruce Hudson

Spread the Kool Aid.

Reap what you sow cunt.

IMG_20200815_211235.jpg.bd8b298e574dff767411262a953335bb.jpg

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Wess said:

There is no escape from a virus this infectious.............

............It’s God’s design and it’s been that way for billions of years. Foolish to think you can change that but go ahead and hide if you want. 

The world is full of people whose lack of judgment brought their country, their careers or personal life crashing down. There is also a world full of the exact opposite.

Today 190 odd countries where you can do a Coronavirus score card on each right now. All are different. Some are brilliant, some are very good, some are good, some are not so good and some are atrocious. 

Then there is an unmistakeable pattern of virus responses that attach to all and each of those outcomes. There is also an unmistakable pattern of denial that exists amoungst all those who either don't get an acceptable score, or one that doesn't fit their expection.

Good luck trying to work out who they are and then where they can be grouped to align to the one place.

The human race and 190 places.

Link to post
Share on other sites

IMG_20200816_110135.jpg.125001b75dd83c717618d28dfde745db.jpg

2 hours ago, Hawke said:

There is evidence that Sweden has passed the Herd Immunity Threshold (HIT).........  

On 8/15/2020 at 7:06 AM, jack_sparrow said:

"Give it time Sparrow Fart the rest of the world will catch up."

"There is increasing evidence that community immunity is happening."

HawkeAllTalk you keep saying all that and you can't or refuse to back it up. All piss and wind.

You are a "fraudulent, lying, dangerous cunt." and you know that, OR you can't stomach reading the truth, can you HawkeAllTalkCunt.

Royal Society of Medicine - "Covid-19: herd immunity in Sweden fails to materialise" Published 12 August 2020.

Swedish PM orders inquiry into handling of virus. "The time had come for Sweden to shift its approach." "Now the question is how Sweden should change, not if." Stefan Lofven Prime Minister.

On 8/14/2020 at 6:10 PM, jack_sparrow said:

You have also "forgotton" something.....I use the word very loosely. You know citing your claim of "increasing evidence that community immunity  is happening."

On 8/14/2020 at 12:21 AM, jack_sparrow said:

"There is increasing evidence that community  immunity is happening."

..with an unambiguous request. 

"Authoritive cite your claim OR horseshit. Take your  pick."

Maybe this will also help you out :lol:

Up to 6% of England’s population may have had Covid, study shows

On 8/13/2020 at 7:05 AM, Hawke said:

There is increasing evidence that community immunity is happening. 

On 8/13/2020 at 10:36 AM, jack_sparrow said:

"There is increasing evidence that community  immunity is happening."

Authoritive cite your claim OR horseshit. Take your pick.

Hint you have to better this. "A study in late May suggested that 6.1% of Sweden’s population had developed coronavirus antibodies. In June, data from Swedens Public Health Agency indicated that about 10% of people in Stockholm, the worst-affected region, had antibodies." 

Then add in studies have shown any immunity only lasts a short time.

Study raises questions over long-term COVID-19 immunity

Studies Report Rapid Loss of COVID-19 Antibodies

0_GlMiQGVLYF6oPAh-.png

On 8/13/2020 at 2:10 PM, jack_sparrow said:

Isn't funny how the "herd immunity" crowd never mention Sweden's high death toll globaly and particularly compared to its Nordic neighbours....

..They never ask themselves the question that if "herd immunity" is founded on Covid having a low/manageable IFR, but that has proven not to be the case, then isn't the whole approach wrong for everyone, not just the aged?

They never ask themselves the question, what would have happened if the Govt transmission rate target of 60% of the population HAD occured, not the fraction which HAS occured?

 

 

 

 

 

 

  • Downvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

IMG_20200815_135522.jpg.6cbe842510da101f0c7dba9e006fe0ed.jpgIMG_20200816_120847.jpg.b12c231a8dfc4ff16067f736715d91e7.jpg

1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:
3 hours ago, Hawke said:

There is evidence that Sweden has passed the Herd Immunity Threshold (HIT).........  

On 8/15/2020 at 7:06 AM, jack_sparrow said:

"Give it time Sparrow Fart the rest of the world will catch up."

"There is increasing evidence that community immunity is happening."

HawkeAllTalk you keep saying all that and you can't or refuse to back it up. All piss and wind.

You are a "fraudulent, lying, dangerous cunt." and you know that, OR you can't stomach reading the truth, can you HawkeAllTalkCunt.

Royal Society of Medicine - "Covid-19: herd immunity in Sweden fails to materialise" Published 12 August 2020.

Swedish PM orders inquiry into handling of virus. "The time had come for Sweden to shift its approach." "Now the question is how Sweden should change, not if." Stefan Lofven Prime Minister.

On 8/14/2020 at 6:10 PM, jack_sparrow said:

You have also "forgotton" something.....I use the word very loosely. You know citing your claim of "increasing evidence that community immunity  is happening."

On 8/14/2020 at 12:21 AM, jack_sparrow said:

"There is increasing evidence that community  immunity is happening."

..with an unambiguous request. 

"Authoritive cite your claim OR horseshit. Take your  pick."

Maybe this will also help you out :lol:

Up to 6% of England’s population may have had Covid, study shows

On 8/13/2020 at 7:05 AM, Hawke said:

There is increasing evidence that community immunity is happening. 

On 8/13/2020 at 10:36 AM, jack_sparrow said:

"There is increasing evidence that community  immunity is happening."

Authoritive cite your claim OR horseshit. Take your pick.

Hint you have to better this. "A study in late May suggested that 6.1% of Sweden’s population had developed coronavirus antibodies. In June, data from Swedens Public Health Agency indicated that about 10% of people in Stockholm, the worst-affected region, had antibodies." 

Then add in studies have shown any immunity only lasts a short time.

Study raises questions over long-term COVID-19 immunity

Studies Report Rapid Loss of COVID-19 Antibodies

0_GlMiQGVLYF6oPAh-.png

On 8/13/2020 at 2:10 PM, jack_sparrow said:

Isn't funny how the "herd immunity" crowd never mention Sweden's high death toll globaly and particularly compared to its Nordic neighbours....

..They never ask themselves the question that if "herd immunity" is founded on Covid having a low/manageable IFR, but that has proven not to be the case, then isn't the whole approach wrong for everyone, not just the aged?

They never ask themselves the question, what would have happened if the Govt transmission rate target of 60% of the population HAD occured, not the fraction which HAS occured?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  • Like 1
  • Downvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

 

IMG_20200815_135522.jpg.6cbe842510da101f0c7dba9e006fe0ed.jpgIMG_20200816_114646.jpg.fc4022523a84f723727b43a59025a272.jpg

2 hours ago, Hawke said:

Any sane person can see I've cited research But you keep on pretending to ignore.

4 hours ago, Hawke said:

A reasoned explanation of how the acquisition of natural immunity is a useful tool in managing the pandemic.  Ironically I guess regardless of the efficacy of each countries approach they are all making progress toward Herd Immunity.  Some are managing the journey better than others.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7361085/

2. Allowing the pandemic to unfold naturally

Early and even ongoing trivialisation of COVID-19 as ‘just like flu’ was incorrect for it is somewhat less severe in children but much more severe in older people (Table 2 ) [9].The World Health Organisation (WHO) estimates that about 20% of those diagnosed become seriously ill, 5% critically, and 3% die. [3] (As the number of people infected is usually unknown the infection fatality rate is variably estimated at between 0.1 and 0.5%.) If 60–80% of the world’s population was infected without interventions there could be about 5-6 billion people infected with COVID-19, one billion seriously sick and up to 30 million dead prematurely. There will be indirect consequences from the infection and economic damage e.g. starvation, homelessness, poverty and mental health and physical morbidity and death. The collateral damage will be especially high in low and middle income countries and in children [10]. That happened with the Spanish flu epidemic in 1918/19 [11]. The COVID-19 pandemic arises during one of the most prosperous periods in human history permitting a more vigourous response than in 1918. Allowing the pandemic to unfold uncontrolled would rapidly produce population immunity, but this is not a palatable public health response,

4 hours ago, Hawke said:

11. Population immunity through natural infection

The technical phrase is herd immunity, with connotations of animals, rather than humans. Herd immunity provokes hostility and controversy as it is usually interpreted as allowing the pandemic to unfold without interventions. The concept needs revisiting. If safe and effective vaccines and life-saving preventative and therapeutic medications are not found, lengthy lockdowns prove impossible, and the pandemic does not disappear spontaneously, population immunity is the only, long-term solution (column 2, Table 1).

Everyone infected and achieving any degree of immunity contributes to population immunity [6], and this is likely to be through a combination of cellular and antibody-based (humoral) responses. The duration of such immunity is unknown although it is reasonable to assume it will last this season with some long-term benefits given exposure to the same or similar strains of the virus.

Through social distancing and lockdown measures most societies have brought the reproduction number from about three[36] to about one or less. The proportion of the population required to be immune to control an infection is called the herd (population) immunity threshold. It is difficult to calculate this number exactly in real world circumstances. To control an infection with an R of about 1 and even somewhat higher we need about 50% of the population to have immunity (unlike measles where over 90% is needed) [5,6]. Currently, the prevalence of COVID-19 infection is variably estimated from 1 to 20% according to locality and work settings. However, if COVID-19 becomes endemic, the proportion of the population with immunity will rise fast, especially where lockdowns have been lifted [12]. This immunity will be helpful, though not fully protective, as new strains of COVID-19 will probably emerge, so people will be re-infected but probably less severely so, as is the case for influenza.

Opening up the economy, schools, colleges and social life is accepting that many people will become infected even with test, track and isolate strategies. Most young people will probably acquire the infection, often without a diagnosis as they will be asymptomatic or mildly affected. Given this, we need to minimise the already low risks of adverse effects in young people (Table 2), especially by identifying the reasons why a few become seriously ill [37,38]. Hygiene and some social distancing measures will continue to be required in homes as children and young people return to nurseries/school/colleges [4,7,8]. Some young people with immunity related disorders could be advised not to return to school or university presently, while awaiting the rise of population immunity in their classmates, which will protect them indirectly.

Young people present risks of transmitting COVID-19 to people in their household, especially parents and grandparents who have underlying disorders or are in the oldest age groups. Home school may be needed for children in these exceptional circumstances. Teachers and others in close contact with children and young people, especially those in older age groups and with chronic disorders, need shielding and/or personal protection equipment.

We need excellent facilities for diagnosis, isolation, quarantine, and treatment for these young people and their contacts as they return to normal life. The public will need to be informed frankly about the risks by comparing those of COVID-19 with infections they are familiar with e.g. influenza (Table 1) [9].

The idea of COVID-19 ‘parties’ by young people has been met with shock. Intermingling is inevitable as workplaces, schools, colleges and universities are reopened. Young people will make decisions that are logical for them given their risks and life circumstances. Could we consider allowing young people without underlying disorders to get COVID-19 naturally while shielding those most at risk through continued social distancing and isolation? [13,27,28] Young people might prefer this route rather than remaining in lockdown or acquiring the infection in riskier circumstances e.g. while travelling abroad. Such people could be given advice and lightly monitored to minimise adverse effects. This is not unprecedented. Chickenpox parties were occurring even in the 1980s even though such infections posed risk to pregnant women and the ethics have been considered [39].

The acquisition of COVID-19 naturally by the young and healthy is, arguably, the safest way towards the goal of about 50% population immunity while protecting those most at risk and maximising benefits for society, whether in terms of the economy or achieving the full potential of future generations [27,28]. This question poses ethical, legal, logistical and clinical challenges similar to those arising in the proposal to test COVID-19 vaccines in healthy volunteers [40].

 
3 hours ago, Hawke said:

Another factor that needs to be considered in an analysis of Sweden is that they effectively imported more vulnerable people than their nordic neighbours.  I third of the Swedish population now has a recent migrant origin.  From 2012 onwards Sweden has accepted more than 100,000 migrants per year mostly asylum seekers/refugees.  That peaked in 2016 at 160,000 and then criteria was tightened.  Mainly due to societal and political pressure.  

 

screenshot-www.statista.com-2020.08.16-11_32_07.png

9. Involving the entire population especially those most vulnerable

As the WHO has emphasised the strategy for controlling COVID-19 needs to be global, and reach out to everyone (Column 1, Table 1). TheWHO has emphasised the needs of populations in crowded circumstances, including asylum seekers, refugees and migrants, where the infection can spread readily [3,29]. Regulations and laws making it illegal or difficult to house, employ or provide health and other services to vulnerable people (e.g. undocumented migrants, who cannot access public funds), need to be reviewed, especially as international travel is problematic [30]. The pandemic hits minorities and migrants hard, given their greater overcrowding in homes and workplaces, relative poverty, the difficulties of understanding and acting upon social distancing guidelines, and the propensity to cardiovascular diseases and type 2 diabetes [[31], [32], [33]]. Large numbers of such populations are being infected but being relatively young, comparatively fewer will die from COVID-19, thereby contributing disproportionately to population immunity.

 

IMG_20200816_124422.jpg.0e091d07ef91eedf40c70f935cfd77d2.jpg

"Anders Tegnell, the chief epidemiologist at Sweden’s Public Health Agency, told The Observer on Sunday (9 August) that the recent drop in Sweden’s cases could mean there is an immunity level in the population of “20%, 30%.. a theory not backed up by any hard evidence..... 

Tegnell said in April that he expected 40% of people in Stockholm, Sweden’s capital, to be immune by the end of May. A study in late May suggested that 6.1% of Sweden’s population had developed coronavirus antibodies...Some virologists in Sweden have rejected the theory that cases are falling because of more immunity. Royal Society of Medicine - "Covid-19: herd immunity in Sweden fails to materialise" Published 12 August 2020. Study raises questions over long-term COVID-19 immunity. Studies Report Rapid Loss of COVID-19 Antibodies

Link to post
Share on other sites

IMG_20200815_135522.jpg.6cbe842510da101f0c7dba9e006fe0ed.jpgIMG_20200816_124422.jpg.0e091d07ef91eedf40c70f935cfd77d2.jpg

"There is evidence that Sweden  has passed  the Herd Immunity Threshold (HIT)........."

 "There is increasing evidence that community  immunity is happening."

Anders Tegnell, the chief epidemiologist at Sweden’s Public Health Agency, told The Observer on Sunday (9 August) that the recent drop in Sweden’s cases could mean there is an immunity level in the population of “20%, 30%.. a theory not backed up by any hard evidence..... 

2 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:
5 hours ago, Hawke said:

There is evidence that Sweden has passed the Herd Immunity Threshold (HIT).........  

2 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:
  On 8/13/2020 at 7:05 AM, Hawke said:

There is increasing evidence that community immunity is happening. 

1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

Anders Tegnell, the chief epidemiologist at Sweden’s Public Health Agency, told The Observer on Sunday (9 August) that the recent drop in Sweden’s cases could mean there is an immunity level in the population of “20%, 30%.. a theory not backed up by any hard evidence..... 

 

 

  • Downvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

IMG_20200815_135522.jpg.6cbe842510da101f0c7dba9e006fe0ed.jpg.7becdec3feeeb7d984010631b7384672.jpgIMG_20200816_144204.jpg.3966674a233f7b9e2b2f4b200afb3081.jpg

1 hour ago, Hawke said:

Subsequently the herd immunity is likely to be much lower than 70%.  Research that I have posted indicates this could be between 15 and 45%...

1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:
5 hours ago, Hawke said:

11. Population immunity through natural infection

The technical phrase is herd immunity,....  To control an infection with an R of about 1 and even somewhat higher we need about 50% of the population to have immunity (unlike measles where over 90% is needed) [5,6]. Currently, the prevalence of COVID-19 infection is variably estimated from 1 to 20% according to locality and work settings. ...

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Hawke said:

The cherry picked quote that you post talks in general.

1 hour ago, MR.CLEAN said:

you keep saying you are posting links 'that show strong evidence' but you never post any strong evidence.  odd, that.

1 hour ago, Hawke said:

I have.  I just refuse to post them again and again and again

 

The boys have gone to the optomotrist and asked I step in. :lol:

1. Cherrypick?? That is your only cite on the subject of a Herd Immunity Threshold (HIT) number and it being around 50% versus Govt target of 60%. Your 15% - 15% HIT is bullshit even to a blind man.

2. Your claim of your cites being in previous posts has proved to be bullshit. Remember this. 

IMG_20200816_154013.jpg.97652859cdb64ecd49b82dde730823be.jpgIMG_20200816_154543.jpg.7759a74b620799e044971bfa6e80abc7.jpgIMG_20200816_153736.jpg.ecb7ccb9d9af12f061c9e921c3d9448c.jpg

3. Then you still can't cite this claim that HIT has been hit despite being first asked last Thursday, which you just ignore and keep repeating it.

4 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:
6 hours ago, Hawke said:

There is evidence that Sweden has passed the Herd Immunity Threshold (HIT).........  

4 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:
On 8/13/2020 at 7:05 AM, Hawke said:

There is increasing evidence that community immunity is happening. 

 

Put up your authoritive cites you claim to have OR  shut your fucking cakehole. Your choice.

PS. This may suprise you but "your opinion" is NOT authoritative "evidence."  The Swedish Govt by the way have no such evidence on HIT being reached or even close as of last Sunday, so yours will be world breaking fucking news. On the tips of our chairs. :lol:

Edited by jack_sparrow
PS added.
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

you keep saying you are posting links 'that show strong evidence' but you never post any strong evidence.  odd, that.

52 minutes ago, Hawke said:

Here is a case in point Mr Clean.......  The second paper (The Royal Society of Medicine) mentioned above in my opinion is flawed especially with its reference to seropositivity.....  

 

IMG_20200816_171549.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Hawke said:

I stand by this post.  75% of the Total deaths as of 14 May 2020 in Sweden occurred in Residential Care or amongst those receiving in Home Care.  Both segments of the population regardless of the semantics were AGED and ILL!

  IMG_20200816_154543.jpg.7759a74b620799e044971bfa6e80abc7.jpg

 

IMG_20200816_184002.jpg

IMG_20200816_154013.jpg.97652859cdb64ecd49b82dde730823be.jpgIMG_20200816_154543.jpg.7759a74b620799e044971bfa6e80abc7.jpgIMG_20200816_153736.jpg.ecb7ccb9d9af12f061c9e921c3d9448c.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Hawke said:

There is evidence that Sweden has passed the Herd Immunity Threshold (HIT). ... 

...The basis for coming to the conclusion that HIT has been reached in Sweden is a consistent decline in the positivity rate of tests and hospitalisations/ICU cases.  With regard to the latter the number of hospitalisations has remained stable around 300 since mid-July and ICU cases for the same period below 50.  Clear signs that herd immunity has been reached.

In the largest county Stockholm which to date Covid-19 has affected most is down to averages of 50 or less receiving medical care and less than 10 in ICU.

IMG_20200815_135522.jpg.6cbe842510da101f0c7dba9e006fe0ed.jpg.7becdec3feeeb7d984010631b7384672.jpg

IMG_20200816_203444.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

IMG_20200816_212204.jpg.a87888178198bcbf0a094544a34949da.jpg

13 hours ago, Hawke said:

There is evidence that Sweden has passed the Herd Immunity Threshold (HIT).  

Swedish COVID-19 deaths have continued to decline and the 7 day average per day is down to 3.  Covid-19 tests now have a positivity rate of 3%.  According to the latest Financial Times analysis, excess mortality in Sweden over 2020 to date was 5,500, or 24%. That is only about half the excess mortality percentage for the UK (45%), Italy (44%) and Spain (56%), and is also lower than for France (31%), the Netherlands (27%) and Switzerland (26%), despite Sweden not having imposed a lockdown or shut primary schools...

12 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

IMG_20200816_091740.jpg

Ec0cbfRWkAE1GRK (1).png

IMG_20200816_093502.jpg

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

The boys have gone to the optomotrist and asked I step in. :lol:

6 hours ago, Hawke said:

So you need to help to post your crap?  optomotrist is spelt optometrist.  Oh and see the red squiggly line under the word?  If you click on that you will see how to spell the word correctly.

 

 

IMG_20200816_222809.jpg

IMG_20200816_225448.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Hawke said:
7 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

PS. This may suprise you but "your opinion" is NOT authoritative "evidence."  The Swedish Govt by the way have no such evidence on HIT being reached or even close as of last Sunday, so yours will be world breaking fucking news. On the tips of our chairs. :lol:

screenshot-www.worldometers.info-2020_08.16-18_34_57.png.7ad8fc3cedcb8b5baf0aa3be57216015.png

screenshot-www.worldometers.info-2020.08.16-18_35_19.png

 

IMG_20200816_234247.jpg

IMG_20200816_234041.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

"Anders Tegnell, the chief epidemiologist at Sweden’s Public Health Agency, told The Observer on Sunday (9 August) that the recent drop in Sweden’s cases could mean there is an immunity level in the population of20%, 30%.. a theory not backed up by any hard evidence..... 

Tegnell said in April that he expected 40% of people in Stockholm, Sweden’s capital, to be immune by the end of May. A study in late May suggested that 6.1% of Sweden’s population had developed coronavirus antibodies...Some virologists in Sweden have rejected the theory that cases are falling because of more immunity. 

8 hours ago, Hawke said:

Here is a case in point Mr Clean.  The study that Jack refers to above suggesting 6.1% relates to the entire Swedish population - note that that study in the article that Jack links to leads to a dead link.  However for arguments sake let's say it is is correct.  The population that Tegnell was referring to in April making 40% immunity was Stockholm NOT all of Sweden.  From what I have read that goal may have actually been reached for Stockholm - certainly the case, hospitalisation and death would support that.  ......

 

IMG_20200817_003302.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Hawke said:

Another factor that needs to be considered in an analysis of Sweden is that they effectively imported more vulnerable people than their nordic neighbours.  I third of the Swedish population now has a recent migrant origin.  From 2012 onwards Sweden has accepted more than 100,000 migrants per year mostly asylum seekers/refugees.  That peaked in 2016 at 160,000 and then criteria was tightened.  Mainly due to societal and political pressure.  

 

screenshot-www.statista.com-2020.08.16-11_32_07.png

 

 

IMG_20200817_013623.jpg

IMG_20200817_014940.jpg

IMG_20200817_014154.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, MR.CLEAN said:

deliberate posting and reposting of false information about coronavirus.  dangerous.  bye.

No one in my household has tested positive.  No one has been tested, so no problem.

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

deliberate posting and reposting of false information about coronavirus.  dangerous.  bye.

Oh please. Jesus what a bunch of pussies. Sailing Censorship. Typical and weak.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Every day I come to this thread hoping there will be some real unbiased information on the big picture holistic efficacy of Sweden's strategy. Having said that, I know it will be a long time before we can really assess these elements but I hope we take the time to do so.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, danstanford said:

Every day I come to this thread hoping there will be some real unbiased information on the big picture holistic efficacy of Sweden's strategy. Having said that, I know it will be a long time before we can really assess these elements but I hope we take the time to do so.

One should remember that Swedish government didn't have legal base to do all the stuff other countries did. This article is good read: https://kvartal.se/artiklar/darfor-ar-sverige-mjukare/

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/17/2020 at 4:22 AM, MR.CLEAN said:

deliberate posting and reposting of false information about coronavirus.  dangerous.  bye.

On 8/17/2020 at 11:53 AM, Wess said:

Oh please. Jesus what a bunch of pussies. Sailing Censorship. Typical and weak.

 

19 hours ago, danstanford said:

Every day I come to this thread hoping there will be some real unbiased information on the big picture holistic efficacy of Sweden's strategy. Having said that, I know it will be a long time before we can really assess these elements but I hope we take the time to do so.

 

On authoritive statistical, scientific, clinical and economic evidence to date, Sweden has got it wrong. Some other countries have got it even more wrong. Others have got it less wrong but still wrong. Others have got it right in varying degrees. That is a fact.

However long term Sweden could prove to have got it right or nearly right, contrary to existing evidence. We will, as you @danstanford quite rightly say, have to wait, see and analyse.

The jury is still out on the Swedish health authorities in regard to the virus response strategy they employed. The Swedish PM has ordered an inquiry into handling of virus. "The time had come for Sweden to shift its approach." "Now the question is how Sweden should change, not if." Stefan Lofven Prime Minister. That would indicate there is some in Sweden not supportive of the strategy adopted.

If today you want to be an 'advocate' of the Swedish approach, nothing wrong with that. There are many who are, both inside and outside of Sweden. Many very professionally and some not so.

However when those 'advocates' of the 'Swedish way' (trying to employ 'natural immunity,') misrepresent or even lie about matters of fact, by either design or omission just to prosecute their viewpoint, then that is a completely different bag of monkeys. It is dangerous for reasons that don't require explanation.

The @Hawke cunt who just got flicked was one of those 'lying dangerous cunts'. 

It is afterall a matter of "life and death," but in this case off the water and involving a fucking lot more people.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Can anyone explain why deaths have been in decline for quite some time in Sweden?

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/

Australia is going through a second wave with more deaths than Sweden in the last month despite locking down again.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/australia/

If Sweden got it wrong then why are deaths decreasing and not increasing are they getting closer to herd immunity?

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
51 minutes ago, Mohammed Bin Lyin said:

Can anyone explain why deaths have been in decline for quite some time in Sweden?

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/

Australia is going through a second wave with more deaths than Sweden in the last month despite locking down again.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/australia/

If Sweden got it wrong then why are deaths decreasing and not increasing are they getting closer to herd immunity?

We don't use facts here Mohammed.  

It's all about feelings, vigilante mob rule, and piling on.
Step on the poor so that the rich don't get a virus that kills .5% of them.

Burn the world down in the quest for absolute safety.
Remember, science is only accepted now if it proves some narrative that pleases the masses.  No more room for dissent, it's not allowed.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Upp3 said:

One should remember that Swedish government didn't have legal base to do all the stuff other countries did. This article is good read: https://kvartal.se/artiklar/darfor-ar-sverige-mjukare/

"Swedish government didn't have legal base to do all the stuff other countries did." 

That is a good read. That guy has a big brain.

The author Krister Thelin @KristerThelin is a retired Skåne and Blekinge (Swedish provinces) appeal court judge.  Also appointed by UN as judge to International Criminal Tribunal in 2003, Secretary Secretary Ministry of Justice and legal advisor to the Swedish military. So he knows backwards international legal process, humanitarian law and constitutional law, the very sections he cites and relies on for that article. 

He also speaks four launguages and now lives in Antibes in Sth France, so clearly not happy being Coronavirus "locked down" by the French. :lol:

In short he says unlike other EU countries operating under the same overarching laws, Sweden's constitution and law in peacetime provides for 'limited legal opportunities" for government and authorities to decide on extraordinary measures. 

Therefore what he is saying is if neighbouring Denmark invaded Sweden, Sweden HAS those "legal opportunities" such as shutdowns together with legal enforcement etc. However he is also saying in effect that if neighbouring Denmark had a nuclear power plant melt down in peacetime, then Sweden HASN'T those same "legal opportunities" such as shutdowns together with legal enforcement etc. I doubt that is true, but won't argue it. His brain is 10 times bigger than mine. :lol:

However IMO he "misses the woods for the trees." The prime reason Sweden did not utilise a suppression response, was NOT related to legal issues. Sweden were simply NOT equipped to do so and limited to a "mitigation" only response, no different to many other countries. 

Continuing nuclear with his wartime and peacetime legal theme.

In every country they have a big "red filing cabinet" somewhere. In that locked red cabinet are "national emergency plans."

Under "N" there is "Nuclear" incident OR attack. Right next to it combined under "O" and "P" combined there is "Pandemic Outbreak."

In the UK and US their emergency epidemic plans describe in detail all sorts of shit. It speaks of warehouses already full of emergency testing kits, PPE, ventilators for pop-up acute care facilities, a vaccine framework etc. The UK even had their plan properly reviewed in 2016 that outlined countless shortcomings.

I think we know the answer to what happened to that UK review and what was in all those warehouses both in the UK and US. Sweet fuck all.

What was in Sweden's "red filing:cabinet" might have been exactly the same as the UK and US.

All plan BUT no resources in place.

OR

Alternatively it might have had a simple report signed by the chief of Sweden’s Public Health Agency and countersigned by the chief epidemiologist and the Prime Minister in power at the time.

That report simply says Sweden expects any respiratory related pandemic to have a Infection Fatality Rate of around 0.1% (a very bad flu epidemic/flu season) and with a rapid reproduction rate where a Herd Immunity Threshold (HIT) of around 60% can be expected and managed with just "mitigation" methods. 

So no problem. No emergency testing kits, PPE, ventilators for pop-up acute care facilities etc required. If the unlikely event IFR is a lot higher then herd immunity is out of the question. 

If Sweden didn't have the means to "find the fire" with contact/trace/testing, then fighting the fire with anything except hard suppression (involving draconian lock downs that required changes to the law) was impossible. The response outcome was already in that "red filing cabinet." 

Retired judge Krister Thelin makes a very strong and persuasive case for hypothetically defending his Governments actions at the current Commision of Inquiry. However once the investigation taskforce get the keys to that "red filing cabinet," my guess is he will suddenly run out of steam.

Or maybe the investigation taskforce turn a "blind-eye" to what's in that "red cabinet," depends on which PM/party ** signed what's inside. :lol:

** Stefan Löfven, leader of the Swedish Social Democratic Party has been Prime Minister for the last 6 years. The party for 38 of the last 50 years.

images - 2020-08-18T174015.188.jpeg

Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, BlatantEcho said:
1 hour ago, Mohammed Bin Lyin said:

Can anyone explain why deaths have been in decline for quite some time in Sweden?

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/

Australia is going through a second wave with more deaths than Sweden in the last month despite locking down again.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/australia/

If Sweden got it wrong then why are deaths decreasing and not increasing are they getting closer to herd immunity?

We don't use facts here Mohammed.  

It's all about feelings, vigilante mob rule, and piling on.
Step on the poor so that the rich don't get a virus that kills .5% of them.

Burn the world down in the quest for absolute safety.
Remember, science is only accepted now if it proves some narrative that pleases the masses.  No more room for dissent, it's not allowed.

 

If Sweden was wrong  we would see increasing numbers of deaths what we see is deaths have been decreasing for many months.

Is Sweden getting closer to herd immunity?

I deal with a lot of farmers and Veterinarians with my work they understand the concept of herd immunity which many of the soy latte sipping inner city types fail to grasp.

 

Quote

Herd immunity thresholds for SARS-CoV-2 estimated from unfolding epidemics

Our inferences result in herd immunity thresholds around 10-20%, considerably lower than the minimum coverage needed to interrupt transmission by random vaccination, which for R_0 higher than 2.5 is estimated above 60%.

More here- https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.23.20160762v1

 

herd.jpg

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/15/2020 at 7:55 AM, jack_sparrow said:
On 8/15/2020 at 7:31 AM, Hawke said:

..The facts would suggest otherwise.

screenshot-www.worldometers.info-2020.08.15-09_30_23.png

"The facts would suggest otherwise ".

Yes facts do matter ...in this case they are called your "missing facts."

For instance current low number of confirmed cases?

How about Sweden schools, businesses etc are are CLOSED for summer holidays. Schools start back next week. 

On 8/16/2020 at 8:37 PM, jack_sparrow said:
On 8/16/2020 at 8:31 AM, Hawke said:

There is evidence that Sweden has passed the Herd Immunity Threshold (HIT). ... 

...The basis for coming to the conclusion that HIT has been reached in Sweden is a consistent decline in the positivity rate of tests and hospitalisations/ICU cases.  With regard to the latter the number of hospitalisations has remained stable around 300 since mid-July and ICU cases for the same period below 50.  Clear signs that herd immunity has been reached.

In the largest county Stockholm which to date Covid-19 has affected most is down to averages of 50 or less receiving medical care and less than 10 in ICU.

IMG_20200815_135522.jpg.6cbe842510da101f0c7dba9e006fe0ed.jpg.7becdec3feeeb7d984010631b7384672.jpg

IMG_20200816_203444.jpg

 

2 hours ago, Mohammed Bin Lyin said:

Can anyone explain why deaths have been in decline for quite some time in Sweden?

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/

..If Sweden got it wrong then why are deaths decreasing and not increasing are they getting closer to herd immunity?

1 hour ago, BlatantEcho said:

We don't use facts here Mohammed.  


 

I'm detecting a "missing facts" and  Hawke Worldometer pattern :lol:

"...why deaths have been  in decline for quite some time in Sweden?"

Reading prior posts helps, some are even sign posted. 

They have been declining throughout Europe. Sweden is not alone. Sweden was slow to build up cases in first wave. 

Medical response better now than first wave and more cases less deaths now with the younger more mortality relisiant demographic. 

Sweden has been holiday business's closed etc since June. Schools go back today.

Transmission to death recording is around 3 weeks, longer in outlying provinces. Do the math's.

1 hour ago, BlatantEcho said:

Australia is going through a second wave with more deaths than Sweden in the last month despite locking down again.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/australia/

2 hours ago, Mohammed Bin Lyin said:

Australia is going through a second wave with more deaths than Sweden in the last month despite locking down again.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/australia/

 

"Australia is going through a second wave....  despite locking down again."

Not Australia, just 2 states. Closed down in RESPONSE TO outbreak and Australia hasn't closed down ONLY 2 states (and 1 the perpetrator) have closed down.

Again 3 weeks transmission to death. 

Sweden's daily death rate was exceeding Australia's total, one country in winter/indoors one country summer/outdoors so the one country or state you have chosen might not be good comparison. :D

2 hours ago, Mohammed Bin Lyin said:

If Sweden got it wrong then why are deaths decreasing and not increasing are they getting closer to herd immunity?

 

"...are they getting closer to herd immunity?"

Experts say no including Swedish health authorities as of last Sunday week. Their own immunity level is still less less than half their own national Herd Immunity Threshold of 50/60%.

Bit hard to miss to the post and Swedish reference. :lol: 

On 8/16/2020 at 2:19 PM, jack_sparrow said:

IMG_20200816_124422.jpg.0e091d07ef91eedf40c70f935cfd77d2.jpg

"There is evidence that Sweden  has passed  the Herd Immunity Threshold (HIT)........."

 "There is increasing evidence that community  immunity is happening."

Anders Tegnell, the chief epidemiologist at Sweden’s Public Health Agency, told The Observer on Sunday (9 August) that the recent drop in Sweden’s cases could mean there is an immunity level in the population of “20%, 30%.. a theory not backed up by any hard evidence..... 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Mohammed Bin Lyin said:

Can anyone explain why deaths have been in decline for quite some time in Sweden?

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/

Australia is going through a second wave with more deaths than Sweden in the last month despite locking down again.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/australia/

If Sweden got it wrong then why are deaths decreasing and not increasing are they getting closer to herd immunity?

19 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:
On 8/15/2020 at 7:31 AM, Hawke said:

..The facts would suggest otherwise.

screenshot-www.worldometers.info-2020.08.15-09_30_23.png

"The facts would suggest otherwise ".

Yes facts do matter ...in this case they are called your "missing facts."

For instance current low number of confirmed cases?

How about Sweden schools, businesses etc are are CLOSED for summer holidays. Schools start back next week. 

20 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Australia is going through a second wave....  despite locking down again."

Not Australia, just 2 states. Closed down in RESPONSE TO outbreak and Australia hasn't closed down ONLY 2 states (and 1 the perpetrator) have closed down.

Again 3 weeks transmission to death. 

Sweden's daily death rate was exceeding Australia's total, one country in winter/indoors one country summer/outdoors so the one country or state you have chosen might not be good comparison. :D

 

22 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

"...are they getting closer to herd immunity?"

Experts say no including Swedish health authorities as of last Sunday week. Their own immunity level is still less less than half their own national Herd Immunity Threshold of 50/60%.

Bit hard to miss to the post and Swedish reference:lol: 

 

29 minutes ago, Mohammed Bin Lyin said:

If Sweden was wrong  we would see increasing numbers of deaths what we see is deaths have been decreasing for many months.

Is Sweden getting closer to herd immunity?

I deal with a lot of farmers and Veterinarians with my work they understand the concept of herd immunity which many of the soy latte sipping inner city types fail to grasp.

 

Mohammed are you still keen to keep going with this shit now your polite question has been politely answered and your incorrect statements corrected on the basis of fact? 

I don't speak for Ray or Stevie though.:lol:

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Mohammed Bin Lyin said:

I deal with a lot of farmers and Veterinarians with my work they understand the concept of herd immunity which many of the soy latte sipping inner city types fail to grasp.

Mate I see what you mean. I deal a lot with fuckwits and they understand the concept of stupidity. I try not to get too close.. if you catch stupidity...it's not curable.  

Like how many know that "herd immunity" is mostly schieved in conjunction with a vaccine in practise with BOTH animals and humans. Funny isn't it how even bullshit can get herd generated. 

Interestingly @Hawke said nearly exactly what you said there some time back. It turned out he didn't have a fucking clue about the concept of "herd immunity" at all....just had his bullshit meter going off the dial at 10 to drown out clinical facts. Funny thinking back. :lol:

Here was the link I used with simple explanation that even a complete fucking idiot could understand . 

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/herd-immunity-and-coronavirus/art-20486808

He said this closing paragraph in it was was all wrong. 

"Even if infection with the COVID-19 virus creates a long lasting immunity, a large number of people would have to become infected to reach the herd immunity threshold. Experts estimate that in the U.S., 70% of the population — more than 200 million people — would have to recover from COVID-19 to halt the epidemic. If many people become sick with COVID-19 at once, the health care system could quickly become overwhelmed. This amount of infection could also lead to serious complications and millions of deaths, especially among older people and those who have chronic conditions."

Fuck me ...that Hawke guy... the Swedes even say Herd Immunity Level (HIL) is 50/60% and said their current (unsupported) national number is under half that ....he said they were wrong.

Some people never learn eh.

Link to post
Share on other sites