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Lifting bridle repair/build


Sneaky Duck

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Guys, when I got my new Star boat the bridle had a busted carabiner.  The shop I get my parts from for that boat doesn't carry the carabiners so I've been trying to source it online and I'm running into some questions...

1. What should the safe working load be?  The boat is... lets call it 1600lbs to account for sails and perhaps some gear.  The bridle is a 2 point bridle which clips to the keel in front of and behind the barney post.  I'm not sure the angles.

2. Are there high load carabiners out there that don't have eye for the bridle rope?  The bridle I have is all spliced so if I can only get enough working load with a carabiner with an eye on it, I'll have to splice up a completely new bridle.

3. Why do all the stainless carabiners on McMasters website say they're "not for lifting"?

4. If I have to build a new bridle, what diameter dyneema would you use?  When you look at that stuff, it's SOOO strong. I can lift my boat with thin diameter line, but every bridle i've ever seen has been much thicker.

Thanks for the help.

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Why a carabiner? Those are expressly for climbing rope work. A shackle with a breaking load of 2200kg should be used. The kind with a thumb screw. Or some other industrial snap hook made for lifting. May not find stainless steel, maybe bronze, but a rattle can of industrial primer cures the corrosion problem.

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6 hours ago, Sneaky Duck said:

Guys, when I got my new Star boat the bridle had a busted carabiner.  The shop I get my parts from for that boat doesn't carry the carabiners so I've been trying to source it online and I'm running into some questions...

1. What should the safe working load be?  The boat is... lets call it 1600lbs to account for sails and perhaps some gear.  The bridle is a 2 point bridle which clips to the keel in front of and behind the barney post.  I'm not sure the angles.

2. Are there high load carabiners out there that don't have eye for the bridle rope?  The bridle I have is all spliced so if I can only get enough working load with a carabiner with an eye on it, I'll have to splice up a completely new bridle.

3. Why do all the stainless carabiners on McMasters website say they're "not for lifting"?

4. If I have to build a new bridle, what diameter dyneema would you use?  When you look at that stuff, it's SOOO strong. I can lift my boat with thin diameter line, but every bridle i've ever seen has been much thicker.

Thanks for the help.

1. Safe Working Load?  How much is your boat worth?  How much is your crew's and your safety worth?  A Star, or most any other boat, falling on someone can easily turn DEADLY!

2. High Load Carabiners?  As El Boracho said, Carabiners are for Climbing, and for keyrings that you don't really care about!

3. McMasters?  McMasters has LAWYERS.  McMasters know that people do stupid shit with their gear.  

4. Dyneema?  Dyneema is really strong until it isn't.  When shock loaded, it melts itself immediately, milliseconds.  Especially at bad splices, knots, and bends.

 

Use PROPER lifting slings and shackles.  Keep you, your crew,, and everyone else around the hoist safe! 

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silent bob is coming off pretty abrasive. However he is not all wrong, have you looked for what you need here : https://www.uscargocontrol.com/

I bought my lifting bridle from them (two straps with an oval ring in the middle to make a four point bridle. I thought the prices were good and everything is overhead lift certified.

 

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21 minutes ago, Mizzmo said:

silent bob is coming off pretty abrasive. However he is not all wrong, have you looked for what you need here : https://www.uscargocontrol.com/

I bought my lifting bridle from them (two straps with an oval ring in the middle to make a four point bridle. I thought the prices were good and everything is overhead lift certified.

 

Thanks for the suggestion.  I'll take a look.  I wasn't offended by anything Bob said, other then question his level of reading comprehension for my first question.  I was literally asking what the load rating was supposed to be to be safe for my boat and crew... Not sure why we need to reiterate that it's important.  Anywho.... who cares.  Seaker, you may be right.  What I call a carabiner, Winchard seems to call a "snap hook".  I like the idea of the screw type shackler.  As long as I can get my hand in there to clamp it down.

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I've been sailing Stars since 1995 and I feel most comfortable working under the boat when I have these holding the boat up.  The stuff from Melges is good and rated for the weight.  To save a little you can get the thumb screw shackles, it just takes a minute longer to set up in the boat.  Only matters when you are running late to make it onto the tow out to the races!!

I think you need to get 2 of each - https://shop.melges.com/product-tag/melges-24-lifting-strap/

https://shop.melges.com/product/melges-24/hull-melges-24/melges-24-lifting-strap-snap-hook/

Other shackle option - https://www.amazon.com/Wichard-Captive-Shackles-locking-shackle/dp/B00DH44228

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1 hour ago, Sneaky Duck said:

Thanks for the suggestion.  I'll take a look.  I wasn't offended by anything Bob said, other then question his level of reading comprehension for my first question.  I was literally asking what the load rating was supposed to be to be safe for my boat and crew... Not sure why we need to reiterate that it's important.  Anywho.... who cares.  Seaker, you may be right.  What I call a carabiner, Winchard seems to call a "snap hook".  I like the idea of the screw type shackler.  As long as I can get my hand in there to clamp it down.

People think I go out of my way to be an Asshole.  Trust me, it’s not out of my way at all!

 

I've seen too many people get hurt and boats get wrecked by not using proper lifting gear.  Recently, had a 25' drop from two feet above the trailer.  All survived without injury, but it could have got really ugly.  You think "I'll just run away", but it's Snap-Bang, and the boat's on top of you.  The boat didn't survive!

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Industrial lifting straps and gear are very cheap (relatively) - certainly cheaper than the special Melges ones :). Especially if the lifting gear does not live aboard the boat full time.

https://www.rigging.com/polyester-round-sling-endless-loop-3-8-feet.html

https://www.rigging.com/nylon-sling-flat-eye-eye-3-6-feet.html

https://www.rigging.com/crosby-shackle-galvanized-screw-pin-type.html

If you want to splice dyneema, and confident that you can make good splices, then pick something like 1/4" (~6000 lb breaking strength). If the 2 sling legs form a V with a shallow angle, the load on each might be close to the boat weight. Then you derate it for UV, wear and tear, and a shitty splice - and 1/4" will still have good safety factors.

 

 

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31 minutes ago, silent bob said:

People think I go out of my way to be an Asshole.  Trust me, it’s not out of my way at all!

 

I've seen too many people get hurt and boats get wrecked by not using proper lifting gear.  Recently, had a 25' drop from two feet above the trailer.  All survived without injury, but it could have got really ugly.  You think "I'll just run away", but it's Snap-Bang, and the boat's on top of you.  The boat didn't survive!

Yeah, I hear you.  I watched a buddy drop his boat because he tried to hoist it full of water not thinking about the fact the boat was easily 2-3x it's normal weight.  Thanks for the advice.

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14 hours ago, Sneaky Duck said:

Guys, when I got my new Star boat the bridle had a busted carabiner.  The shop I get my parts from for that boat doesn't carry the carabiners so I've been trying to source it online and I'm running into some questions...

1. What should the safe working load be?  The boat is... lets call it 1600lbs to account for sails and perhaps some gear.  The bridle is a 2 point bridle which clips to the keel in front of and behind the barney post.  I'm not sure the angles.....

I have a bunch of engineering thoughts, but lets start with "what was the WLL of the one that broke?"

FWIW, the WLL limit of load rated gear, including climbing equipment, is generally 1/5 of the breaking strength. Additionally, this assumes the gear is loaded correctly. I'm guessing the original biner broke because the bridle was slack when lifting began and it got caught in a bind. Shackles are safer in this regard.

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