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My wife is giving us constant harassment about my lack of personal protection from boat shop customers.  but.... Since mid January, lI have had  a big yellow caution tape stretched across the d

Must really piss you off that Trump is hitting primarily blue states with his virus.

Planning a party?

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58 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:
1 hour ago, Dog said:

There has been a lot of buzz here about the Warp Speed vaccine roll out.

when? link  last statement from the POTUS please.

He's killing you, playing games.

you got this

The President is too busy rage-Tweeting between rounds of golf to be concerned with mundane things like 1 million positive cases being added in a few days and 2,000 who died, yesterday.

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4 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

The President is too busy rage-Tweeting between rounds of golf to be concerned with mundane things like 1 million positive cases being added in a few days and 2,000 who died, yesterday.

In his defense, he has picked up a nasty slice in the past few weeks that IS keeping him up at night.  

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1 hour ago, Dog said:

There has been a lot of buzz here about the Warp Speed vaccine roll out.

“Warp Speed” is certainly a (rare) bright spot for the Trump administration. Moderna participates, Pfizer does not. 

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1 hour ago, Dog said:
1 hour ago, Shortforbob said:

How can you still be cheering on Trump. He's still POTUS yet he's said nothing about the pandemic raging for a week? two weeks?

All he cares about is scotching the election result. Hiding away in the WH, plotting and tweeting. People are dying all over the country and without co operation, any roll out of a vaccine will be inevitably delayed. He's playing games with your lives.

There has been a lot of buzz here about the Warp Speed vaccine roll out.

Last thing I heard Trump say, it was a plot against him to delay the rollout until after the election

I'm sure the doctors consulted with Trump about all that DNA science-y stuff for the vaccine, because he has such good genes and knows all about this stuff

- DSK

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2 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

when? link  last statement from the POTUS please.

He's killing you, playing games.

you got this

 

How's your vaccine coming or are you just waiting for the US to solve this thing?

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8 minutes ago, Dog said:

How's your vaccine coming or are you just waiting for the US to solve this thing?

There has been a lot of buzz here about the Warp Speed vaccine roll out.

I repeat,

when? link the last statement from the POTUS please.

He's killing you, playing games.

When was the last time your president spoke to you, the people, about Corona virus?

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5 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

There has been a lot of buzz here about the Warp Speed vaccine roll out.

I repeat,

when? link the last statement from the POTUS please.

He's killing you, playing games.

When was the last time your president spoke to you, the people, about Corona virus?

I don't know but statements and working on the problem are two different things.

How's your vaccine coming or are you just waiting for the US to solve this thing?

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20 minutes ago, Dog said:

I don't know but statements and working on the problem are two different things.

How's your vaccine coming or are you just waiting for the US to solve this thing?

Why don't you don't know when your president last spoke to the people of the USA about a disease that killed 2000 people yesterday?

Is he working on the problem? how do you know this?

since the 3rd of November, more than 25,000 people in the USA have died from this disease. Doesn't it bother you that the president of the united states has personally said and done nothing?

Doesn't it bother you that he is actively preventing the incoming administration from accessing information to assist in swiftly rolling out a vaccine when it becomes available?

Would you care to offer a possible reasonable explanation for this ?

well @Dog?

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27 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

Why don't you don't know when your president last spoke to the people of the USA about a disease that killed 2000 people yesterday?

Is he working on the problem? how do you know this?

since the 3rd of November, more than 25,000 people in the USA have died from this disease. Doesn't it bother you that the president of the united states has personally said and done nothing?

Doesn't it bother you that he is actively preventing the incoming administration from accessing information to assist in swiftly rolling out a vaccine when it becomes available?

Would you care to offer a possible reasonable explanation for this ?

well @Dog?

Yes, His reluctance to cooperate with the Biden team is problematic.

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42 minutes ago, Dog said:

Thanks for the link. 
 

Excerpts -

"This is a bright spot in the pandemic response. I mean, the rest of it has been dismal," said Goodman, who is also director of Georgetown University's Center on Medical Product Access, Safety and Stewardship.

———

Indeed, Pfizer's COVID-19 vaccine development and manufacturing costs have been entirely funded by the company. However, it did strike a deal with Operation Warp Speed for the U.S. government to buy about $2 billion of its vaccine, or 100 million doses, once it gets approved.

————

But Walter Orenstein, a former director of the U.S. Immunization Program and former deputy director for immunization programs at the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, said Operation Warp Speed has played a major role by guaranteeing a market to Pfizer so it can begin developing its procedures for distribution.

And that has taken some of the financial risk out of the process for companies such as Pfizer, he said.

 

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5 minutes ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

Problematic? That is all you got. I think it rises to the level of criminal unfortunately.

No it doesn't. Trump can rightly claim that the election has not been certified.

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3 minutes ago, Dog said:

No it doesn't. Trump can rightly claim that the election has not been certified.

But it has to the extent that he cannot gain enough to overturn the election. Georgia certifies today, Pennsylvania certifies on Monday, Wisconsin on the 1st. 

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2 hours ago, Dog said:

I don't know but statements and working on the problem are two different things.

How's your vaccine coming or are you just waiting for the US to solve this thing?

Are you under the impression that Australia does not have any part of the multi-national pharmaceutical industry that has been working on the vaccines?

As a rough percentage, how much of the vaccine development was completed by USA-born people inside the USA? How many of them do you think are Tump supporters?

- DSK

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23 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Are you under the impression that Australia does not have any part of the multi-national pharmaceutical industry that has been working on the vaccines?

As a rough percentage, how much of the vaccine development was completed by USA-born people inside the USA? How many of them do you think are Tump supporters?

- DSK

Pfizer's was developed by a German firm.

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1 hour ago, Raz'r said:

Pfizer's was developed by a German firm.

Right, but The Canine One was asking an Australian.

I suspect the Trumpalos believe that people in other countries are just huddling in cardboard boxing with nothing but sticks and rocks, envying US DUH-MERRICANZ. They hate us for our FREEDUMB!!

- DSK

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2 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Right, but The Canine One was asking an Australian.

I suspect the Trumpalos believe that people in other countries are just huddling in cardboard boxing with nothing but sticks and rocks, envying US DUH-MERRICANZ and getting ready for family Christmas on the beach.

FTFY

Thousands dressed in festive beach outfits flock to Bondi Beach and Byron  Bay to celebrate Christmas | Daily Mail Online

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7 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

Why don't you don't know when your president last spoke to the people of the USA about a disease that killed 2000 people yesterday?

Is he working on the problem? how do you know this?

since the 3rd of November, more than 25,000 people in the USA have died from this disease. Doesn't it bother you that the president of the united states has personally said and done nothing?

Doesn't it bother you that he is actively preventing the incoming administration from accessing information to assist in swiftly rolling out a vaccine when it becomes available?

Would you care to offer a possible reasonable explanation for this ?

well @Dog?

 

6 hours ago, Dog said:

Yes, His reluctance to cooperate with the Biden team is problematic.

 

6 hours ago, Dog said:

Ummmm.....because it delays the Biden team getting up to speed?

Why is that a problem @Dog ?

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New York Times: “Deaths nationwide were 18 percent higher than normal from March 15 to Nov. 7. Altogether, the analysis shows that 326,000 more people than normal have died in the United States during that period, a number that may be an undercount since recent death statistics are still being updated.”
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5 hours ago, Sean said:
New York Times: “Deaths nationwide were 18 percent higher than normal from March 15 to Nov. 7. Altogether, the analysis shows that 326,000 more people than normal have died in the United States during that period, a number that may be an undercount since recent death statistics are still being updated.”

Are they adjusting for fewer deaths from such things as car accidents due to reduced traffic?

If they just do a straight "over/under" it will reduce the deaths due to Covid.

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Two words that need to be branded on Donald's forehead (3rd degree, no less!):

Responsibility

Accountability

... because POTUS.

 

He got married to these two words and their very meaning when he took the oath and the office.

And, no, he cannot divorce them, cheat on them or send some lawyers. He owns his failure, his neglegt, the suffering and the dead.

Make sure he notices.

 

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4 minutes ago, Grog said:

Two words that need to be branded on Donald's forehead (3rd degree, no less!):

Responsibility

Accountability

... because POTUS.

 

 

Am I supposed to look both ways before I cross the street?  These things are ridiculously complicated! 

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55 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Are they adjusting for fewer deaths from such things as car accidents due to reduced traffic?

If they just do a straight "over/under" it will reduce the deaths due to Covid.

Well there you have it - Covid 19 saves lives!

(were’s Mickey when you need him?)

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22 minutes ago, hasher said:

Am I supposed to look both ways before I cross the street?  These things are ridiculously complicated! 

Actually, yes.

I think I get your point and in my mind these words are not redundant.

Responsibility would mean he must take the blame.

Accountability would mean he must take a punishment.

 

So, he failed his Covid response. He is a loser, and a traitor, to the USA and her people. That's the blame.

And if it was Saudi Arabia he would suffer at least one whiplash for each of the citizens that died because of his negligent behaviour when he was in charge. Of course that will never happen as a decent whipping would split his body in half after a current day's average of dead americans. But that would the (a?) punishment. Maybe bankruptcy and prison for life will have to suffice.

 

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2 hours ago, Grog said:

Two words that need to be branded on Donald's forehead (3rd degree, no less!):

Responsibility

Accountability

... because POTUS.

 

He got married to these two words and their very meaning when he took the oath and the office.

And, no, he cannot divorce them, cheat on them or send some lawyers. He owns his failure, his neglegt, the suffering and the dead.

Make sure he notices.

 

Why?

He doesn't give a shit about any of that and never has.

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18 hours ago, Grog said:

Actually, yes.

I think I get your point and in my mind these words are not redundant.

Responsibility would mean he must take the blame.

Accountability would mean he must take a punishment.

 

So, he failed his Covid response. He is a loser, and a traitor, to the USA and her people. That's the blame.

And if it was Saudi Arabia he would suffer at least one whiplash for each of the citizens that died because of his negligent behaviour when he was in charge. Of course that will never happen as a decent whipping would split his body in half after a current day's average of dead americans. But that would the (a?) punishment. Maybe bankruptcy and prison for life will have to suffice.

 

Is he responsible or accountable for the response by the states?

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Just now, Dog said:

Is he responsible or accountable for the response by the states?

He is responsible for his (in)actions.

Look Dog, we get it.  The sole responsibility falls on the Governors and the Mayors.  The President has no role in this.

We look forward to your reversal on such a position on January 21, 2021.

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37 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:
40 minutes ago, Dog said:

Is he responsible or accountable for the response by the states?

He is responsible for his (in)actions.

Look Dog, we get it.  The sole responsibility falls on the Governors and the Mayors.  The President has no role in this.

We look forward to your reversal on such a position on January 21, 2021.

Except for the vaccine. That is a magnificent and fabulous accomplishment by TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP!!!

And the governors & states are totally responsible even though no state could have taken such a role in developing a vaccine... paradox much?

- DSK

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3 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Except for the vaccine. That is a magnificent and fabulous accomplishment by TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP!!!

And the governors & states are totally responsible even though no state could have taken such a role in developing a vaccine... paradox much?

- DSK

Speaking of the vaccine.  Since Pfizer corrected the statement from VP Pence and the WH trying to take credit for their vaccine - 

Trump turns on Pfizer over vaccine timing

In particular, he attacked Pfizer, the largest drug company in the U.S., just two hours after his press secretary, Kayleigh McEnany, claimed credit for the development of Pfizer’s new COVID-19 vaccine on behalf of the administration’s Operation Warp Speed program. Trump accused Pfizer of waiting to announce the success of their phase III vaccine trial until the day after the presidential election in order to avoid helping him.

Proving this is all about his re-election.  He doesn't give a fuck about the virus, the vaccine, or the Americans who will die.

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17 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Why?

He doesn't give a shit about any of that and never has.

Wew need no further evidence than yesterday's G20 performance. World leaders are going to discuss COVID and Donald has to go golfing.

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13 minutes ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

Wew need no further evidence than yesterday's G20 performance. World leaders are going to discuss COVID and Donald has to go golfing.

And the "Trump 2020  No More Bullshit" flags are still flying at the marina, and yes, some on sailboats.

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1 minute ago, bridhb said:

And the "Trump 2020  No More Bullshit" flags are still flying at the marina, and yes, some on sailboats.

Well, government of the people, by the people, and for the people, is bullshit innit? Finally somebody with balls!

- DSK

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1 minute ago, Steam Flyer said:

Well, government of the people, by the people, and for the people, is bullshit innit? Finally somebody with balls!

- DSK

Yeah, and hopefully it is Kamala.

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19 minutes ago, bridhb said:

And the "Trump 2020  No More Bullshit" flags are still flying at the marina, and yes, some on sailboats.

Probably MacGregor 26s.

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On 11/20/2020 at 12:39 PM, Raz'r said:

You mean the German vaccine? That one?

Actually, Turkish-German. 

An emigrant (to Germany) Turk husband and wife team led the research. 

Exactly the sort of Elk that Dog and the Reich want to keep out of the US. 

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@Grog @Ed Lada Others:

Might I trouble you guys for a 'report on the ground' in Europe?   I've watched your numbers edge up.

Obviously Ohio and Indiana aren't doing all that great.    Masks are too complicated for most of us to wear properly, apparently our fat noses need fresh air.    The state is still trying to quarantine people after they are exposed to a known positive, making staffing hard everywhere.   Social distancing has reduced leisure group activity by about 30% and parties a similar amount.   Employee face masks are still optional at the local autozone (small parts store with only a couple customers at a time) though the haircut place seems to have improved.   Most people finally wear one at large stores like Walmart or Kroger.  NPR interviewed a bar owner in Columbus bragging he owned an apartment next to his business and also served food.   Since carry out of alcohol is legal with a snack,  his bar would remain open every night after 10:00.   The apartment was being thrown open for all patrons to party in.   They just have to run next door when they want more carry out!!!!   He stated he had contacted the state, and they wouldn't interfere with activities in a private residence.      It will be interesting if his free advertising on the news backfires.   

 

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17 hours ago, Lark said:

@Grog @Ed Lada Others:

Might I trouble you guys for a 'report on the ground' in Europe?   I've watched your numbers edge up.

Obviously Ohio and Indiana aren't doing all that great.    Masks are too complicated for most of us to wear properly, apparently our fat noses need fresh air.    The state is still trying to quarantine people after they are exposed to a known positive, making staffing hard everywhere.   Social distancing has reduced leisure group activity by about 30% and parties a similar amount.   Employee face masks are still optional at the local autozone (small parts store with only a couple customers at a time) though the haircut place seems to have improved.   Most people finally wear one at large stores like Walmart or Kroger.  NPR interviewed a bar owner in Columbus bragging he owned an apartment next to his business and also served food.   Since carry out of alcohol is legal with a snack,  his bar would remain open every night after 10:00.   The apartment was being thrown open for all patrons to party in.   They just have to run next door when they want more carry out!!!!   He stated he had contacted the state, and they wouldn't interfere with activities in a private residence.      It will be interesting if his free advertising on the news backfires.   

 

People in Poland are generally compliant and don't whine too much.  I suspect a lot of that has to do with living under communist rule and doing without many things form 1947 until 1990.  

Anecdotally speaking, it seems like during the original wave of Covid we had a very low case rate in our area.  The last month and a half, I know many people that tested positive, those that were actually ill (mostly mild symptoms) recovered, some were asymptomatic.  My wife was in the latter group, she does music therapy at a German hospital across the river and get tested weekly.  About a month and a half ago she tested positive and we had to quarantine for 2 weeks.  She had no symptoms and neither did I.  I didn't get tested.  After 2 weeks, my wife was tested again, PCR test and she still had a small amount of the virus, but was cleared to return to work in her other jobs, but not in the hospital.  

All in all I think people in Europe are taking it in stride, at least as much as I have read and seen in northern Europe.  Certainly it appears to me compliance with the rules is much higher here than in the US.  Currently all bars and restaurants are takeout only.  People here aren't so stubborn about following the requirements for the most part, although I have a German doctor friend that thinks it's all overblown, and a good Polish friend that won't wear a mask.  She's 26.   The biggest problem during the 1st wave was that they closed the border between Germany and Poland. As we are right on the border and many people live in Poland but work in Germany, there was a bit of complaining.  Eventually, if you had a letter from work, you were allowed to cross the border.  So far, the border is open although in Berlin only non-Germans who work there are allowed to go there.  Also non-Germans are restricted to 24 hours or less per visit in Germany.  

So that's the perspective from my piece of Europe.

 

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8 minutes ago, Gouvernail said:

Plus however many people felt a little off but REALLY don’t want to endure  a foot long Q-Tip in the nose. 
 

Location   Cases Recovered Deaths
United States
 
12.5M
+179K
-
258K
+1,032

Puts an entirely different perspective on up your nose with a rubber hose

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4 minutes ago, jerseyguy said:

Puts an entirely different perspective on up your nose with a rubber hose

My kid sister tried that one at the dinner table many many years ago.

Apparently "up your hose with a rubber nose" doesn't work quite the same.

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2 minutes ago, Gouvernail said:

Aren’r the next lines...

In your ass

with a piece of glass?

In you ear 

with a poison spear? 

 

 

Perhaps but not on Welcome Back Kotter

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1 hour ago, Ed Lada said:

People in Poland are generally compliant and don't whine too much.  I suspect a lot of that has to do with living under communist rule and doing without many things form 1947 until 1990.  

Anecdotally speaking, it seems like during the original wave of Covid we had a very low case rate in our area.  The last month and a half, I know many people that tested positive, those that were actually ill (mostly mild symptoms) recovered, some were asymptomatic.  My wife was in the latter group, she does music therapy at a German hospital across the river and get tested weekly.  About a month and a half ago she tested positive and we had to quarantine for 2 weeks.  She had no symptoms and neither did I.  I didn't get tested.  After 2 weeks, my wife was tested again, PCR test and she still had a small amount of the virus, but was cleared to return to work in her other jobs, but not in the hospital.  

All in all I think people in Europe are taking it in stride, at least as much as I have read and seen in northern Europe.  Certainly it appears to me compliance with the rules is much higher here than in the US.  Currently all bars and restaurants are takeout only.  People here aren't so stubborn about following the requirements for the most part, although I have a German doctor friend that thinks it's all overblown, and a good Polish friend that won't wear a mask.  She's 26.   The biggest problem during the 1st wave was that they closed the border between Germany and Poland. As we are right on the border and many people live in Poland but work in Germany, there was a bit of complaining.  Eventually, if you had a letter from work, you were allowed to cross the border.  So far, the border is open although in Berlin only non-Germans who work there are allowed to go there.  Also non-Germans are restricted to 24 hours or less per visit in Germany.  

So that's the perspective from my piece of Europe.

 

Thanks.    You describe the scenario we face here, with a different outcome.  The first shutdown occurred before testing was available, and cases were likely extremely rare for most of the state.  Most people didn't get vaccinated for influenza and are convinced they got COVID in February or March, therefore are immune.   Often they had a cold and their nose was stuffed up, so they didn't smell their food.   This proves their theory.   My food had no taste when I was terrified of the economic costs.    It wasn't CoViD.   

There are now enough cases requiring ICU care to strain the system, but most cases are humdrum.   Therefore most people see mild cases or are positive without even getting sick.    So far the only death I knew first hand was already chronically ill and had trouble breathing on a good day.   Second hand accounts of somebody who didn't die but had a life changing stroke seem less powerful.   Even the retired physician next door and his wife (Tea Party Trumpers) have called the disease overblown.   I'm glad you and your wife escaped illness.  It sounds like conditioning to follow government orders behind the Iron Curtain better prepares a society for pandemic then conditioning to disbelieve anybody who actually knows what they are talking about, as in the states.

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28 minutes ago, Lark said:

It sounds like conditioning to follow government orders behind the Iron Curtain better prepares a society for pandemic then conditioning to disbelieve anybody who actually knows what they are talking about, as in the states.

You're welcome.

There are a few Poles I know that think the whole Covid thing is a hoax, but not many. I think part of the Poles experience is due to the effects of communism, but there is an entire generation of adults now that either weren't born or were to young to remember the communist time.  And these same young adults watch a lot of movies and have internet, so they are becoming much more materialistic than prior generations.  But Poland is still developing economically and most Poles are quite used to a simple, low cost life because they just don't have a lot of money in many cases.  We have a McDonald's in our town of `20,000 people but no other fast food chain restaurants.  And the McDonald's does a steady business but it's rarely crowded.  There are 2 pretty good restaurants in town with moderate prices by US standards, but expensive for most locals.  They stay in business from the Germans across the river that come to town to buy some products cheaper and cheap restaurants as they get better pay.  The Germans come from as far as Berlin, about 65 miles away.  To the Berliners, eating a good meal in our town costs them much less than what it would cost them in Berlin.  Folks don't eat out a lot here and if they do, it's in restaurants that feature Polish food, roast pork, pierogi, etc., and it's pretty inexpensive.  And bars aren't popular in Poland except in big cities, most folks drink at home or at a restaurant with their meal.  You kind of get the picture.

In short, many of the restrictions don't have too much effect on the locals.  The ones that are really hurting are the places that count on German customers.  Takeaway food is possible but most Germans don't do that.  Polish people have always enjoyed going to the forest to walk or collect mushrooms, even many young people.  So as long as they can do that, and even at the height of the lock down during the first wave they could, they are reasonably happy.

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21 hours ago, Lark said:

@Grog @Ed Lada Others:

Might I trouble you guys for a 'report on the ground' in Europe?   I've watched your numbers edge up.

Obviously Ohio and Indiana aren't doing all that great.    Masks are too complicated for most of us to wear properly, apparently our fat noses need fresh air.    The state is still trying to quarantine people after they are exposed to a known positive, making staffing hard everywhere.   Social distancing has reduced leisure group activity by about 30% and parties a similar amount.   Employee face masks are still optional at the local autozone (small parts store with only a couple customers at a time) though the haircut place seems to have improved.   Most people finally wear one at large stores like Walmart or Kroger.  NPR interviewed a bar owner in Columbus bragging he owned an apartment next to his business and also served food.   Since carry out of alcohol is legal with a snack,  his bar would remain open every night after 10:00.   The apartment was being thrown open for all patrons to party in.   They just have to run next door when they want more carry out!!!!   He stated he had contacted the state, and they wouldn't interfere with activities in a private residence.      It will be interesting if his free advertising on the news backfires.

Hi Lark, thanks for asking!

In my neck of the woods (south west, Stuttgart region) things seem to run in a pretty calm and discipined manner. People are aware of the situation, they mask up in shops and crowded streets, they generally try go keep some distance and when shopping they seem to do it in a calm but slightly more speedy way. Get it done and get out.

I like to believe this has to with an understanding of the virus and the measures and restrictions that followed. Also, we have seen these (then much stricter) measures actually work and flatten the curve earlier this year.

On the other hand there are those who fed up with it or just can't be bothered. There is a small, but vocal semi-organised group of deniers and those who want to test the waters. There are marches and Covid parties and shisha bars and clubs who try to find the loopholes just like the bar guy mentioned, or those who just do it hoping they don't get caught.

Point is, I think, that any measures dictated by federal or state government are essentially understood as guidelines. Actual inforcement is impossible and while most people know this, some have the understanding and choose to comply, while others run wild until they get their wrist slapped. Ultimatley, it comes down to individual understanding and the decision to try to protect each other with minimized risks until the vaccines are available.

I also think that most people have an idea that we are still in a very privileged position: opposed to years of WW II and after, we do have homes, fully functional infrastructure like streets, cars, public transport, drinkable tap water, electricity, communications and a steady supply of food and household stuff. On top of that you can get the latest iPad, TV set, clothes, cars and just about everything else imaginable. While only the older generations have experienced any shortage of any of the above first hand, almost everybody has learned about them in school. We could be doing much worse, so let's just not screw this up.

 

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40 minutes ago, Ed Lada said:

You're welcome.

Ahem, well I was also going to ask your views on what may be looming 

authoritarianism in Poland: How do average people understand it? 

Are they worried? Engaged? 

Any observations on Hungary? 

Will there be open conflict with the EU? 

(I know this is sort of off topic, but it's obviously important . .  

feel free to start a new thread for it . . ) 

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1 hour ago, Lark said:

It sounds like conditioning to follow government orders behind the Iron Curtain better prepares a society for pandemic then conditioning to disbelieve anybody who actually knows what they are talking about, as in the states.

Ed Lada already responded to that (better than I could) but I would like to add that most people behind the Iron Curtain developed a lot of very sublime tactics to do whatever they wanted to do without being too offensive or even arrested. That make shift, "can do" attitude and skill set later combined with western education and materials resulted in a whole new generation of craftsmen and upped the game for everyone. The spirit behind this is still very much alive, for good or for worse.

"Can we do this?"

"No. Come back in two hours." :) 

 

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37 minutes ago, Grog said:

Ed Lada already responded to that (better than I could) but I would like to add that most people behind the Iron Curtain developed a lot of very sublime tactics to do whatever they wanted to do without being too offensive or even arrested. That make shift, "can do" attitude and skill set later combined with western education and materials resulted in a whole new generation of craftsmen and upped the game for everyone. The spirit behind this is still very much alive, for good or for worse.

"Can we do this?"

"No. Come back in two hours." :) 

 

So true! 

Especially in Poland, Poles hate any kind of government.  Stubborn, independent people.  That's been Poland's greatest strength and greatest weakness since Poland existed.  

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3 minutes ago, Ed Lada said:

So true! 

Especially in Poland, Poles hate any kind of government. 

Natural result of the quality of government they have suffered over the years.

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2 hours ago, Grog said:

Ed Lada already responded to that (better than I could) but I would like to add that most people behind the Iron Curtain developed a lot of very sublime tactics to do whatever they wanted to do without being too offensive or even arrested. That make shift, "can do" attitude and skill set later combined with western education and materials resulted in a whole new generation of craftsmen and upped the game for everyone. The spirit behind this is still very much alive, for good or for worse.

"Can we do this?"

"No. Come back in two hours." :) 

 

I met a guy who sailed to Cuba.  He had grown up in Poland.  He could navigate Cuba effortlessly, finding private homes to stay in and private cars to ride in.  Close friend/college roommate is of Polish descent.  He has great pride in Lech Walesa.

Crazy voters are everywhere.  Hopefully they can vote authoritarian leadership out like we did.  

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1 hour ago, SloopJonB said:
1 hour ago, Ed Lada said:

So true! 

Especially in Poland, Poles hate any kind of government. 

Natural result of the quality of government they have suffered over the years.

This goes way WAY back in Polish history. They have a strong independent streak, and value personal liberties... the biggest problem was the petit nobility, who mostly were perfectly happy to oppress their peasants but would tell the king and the greater nobility to go to hell... except in the case of uprisings which they expected help with. There were leaders who forged a sense of national cooperation but it was always short-lived.

It was a Polish king (well, he was elected to it, but he was a fuckin' king all the same) who drove the Turks back from Vienna in the Middle Ages. Less than a generation later, Poland hardly existed as a country on the map.

- DSK

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29 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

This goes way WAY back in Polish history. They have a strong independent streak, and value personal liberties... the biggest problem was the petit nobility, who mostly were perfectly happy to oppress their peasants but would tell the king and the greater nobility to go to hell... except in the case of uprisings which they expected help with. There were leaders who forged a sense of national cooperation but it was always short-lived.

It was a Polish king (well, he was elected to it, but he was a fuckin' king all the same) who drove the Turks back from Vienna in the Middle Ages. Less than a generation later, Poland hardly existed as a country on the map.

- DSK

Yes, that's what I alluded to in my earlier post.  

King Jan Sobieski, the hero of Vienna.

Poland has had a long, complicated, and often terrible history.

Poland didn't exist on any map twice in it's existence.  The first was the time which is referred to as the 3rd partition occurred in 1795.  Russia took the east, Germany the west and Austria the south.  From that time until he end of WW I there was no country called Poland.  It didn't become Poland again until it was brought back into existence by the treaty of Versailles, in 1918.  My paternal grandfather emigrated from eastern Poland to the US in 1907, he was 16 years old.  On the document at Ellis Island he was listed as country-Russia, nationality Polish.  

The second time Poland ceased to exist was in 1939.  A month after Hitler invaded Poland setting of WW II , the Soviets in accordance with a secret pact with Hitler invaded their old enemy Poland.  The Soviets took a good chunk of eastern Poland and made it theirs, Germany took the western portion and incorporated it into the Reich and a small part in the center became a sort of territory known as the General Government.  This was where all of the death camps were located.  Again, Poland didn't become a country again until the end of WW II country.  In every other country that the Nazis overran one way or another in WWII, Poland was the only one that they completely dismantled.  

There are many kingdoms, principalities and duchies and the like that existed in Europe over the centuries that have disappeared.  The well known British historian Norman Davies wrote and interesting book about that called Vanished Kingdoms, The history of half forgotten Europe.  However there isn't a case of a well established country in Europe that disappeared twice and still exists today.  Even under the USSR, the 'Soviet Socialist Republics' at least retained their names and boundaries and culture for the most part.  Davies has also written one of the definitive histories of Poland appropriately entitled God's Playground.  Davies has also written other books about Poland and is married to a Polish woman.

Like I said, Poles are tough people.  Like the old Timex watches, "They take a licking and keep on ticking".

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9 hours ago, Gouvernail said:

Is this the Lame Duck’s biggest killing day??

Location   Cases Recovered Deaths
United States
 
12.7M
+176K
-
260K
+2,203

He's trying for 5K dead a day by the end of his term, and he might make it. It will, of course, all be Biden's fault.

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1 hour ago, Ishmael said:

He's trying for 5K dead a day by the end of his term, and he might make it. It will, of course, all be Biden's fault.

Not until

noon Jan 20...

Then it  will become retroactive just like the Republican outrage about Obama not being in his office at the White House to deal with 9-11

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24 minutes ago, Gouvernail said:

Not until

noon Jan 20...

Then it  will become retroactive just like the Republican outrage about Obama not being in his office at the White House to deal with 9-11

They are still outraged that Washington took over the airports.

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7 hours ago, Gouvernail said:

Not until

noon Jan 20...

Then it  will become retroactive just like the Republican outrage about Obama not being in his office at the White House to deal with 9-11

We shouldn't forget his failures surrounding the federal response to Hurricane Katrina.

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The US may be taking a holiday today but COVID-19 isn't.

New cases reported today:  180,830

Deaths reported today:  2,313

Stay safe on Thanksgiving!  Look after those near to you by not being near them.....

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3 hours ago, Gouvernail said:

Lame Duck must be focused on killing off those who  votes for him 

         
         

His supporters are the ones most determined to catch the bug, that's for sure.

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9 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

His supporters are the ones most determined to catch the bug, that's for sure.

I wish them nothing but success in their quest but with little to no collateral damage.

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4 hours ago, Gouvernail said:

Next up:

We all are immune now. If the liberal pussies  had not worn masks, we already would have achieved herd immunity 

Trump settled for herd mentality.

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My distant relatives in Florida posted a family Thanksgiving picture on social media today.  10-12 of them, people of all ages, no masks, no social distance.   Did I miss a news report about Florida getting rid of the virus?  We are still on "no social gathering outside your household" here.

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