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1 hour ago, Zonker said:
1 hour ago, Rok Dog said:

Anyone think government run healthcare is a good idea?

Yes, just about every Canadian and UK citizen.

and new zealander's .. and most of the scandinavians / germans / europens i have met ( most as some didnt say anything about it so are unknown's )

 

the most common comment is how inhumane and or appalling the usa health care system is ... backed up by all of the usa doctors i have talked to about it

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Planning a party?

I dare bring it up because I read that Gov. DeSantis said she was fired because was arrested for cyberstalking and sexual cyberharassment. What"s disgusting is your reaction to a legitimate quest

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1 hour ago, Rok Dog said:

Anyone think government run healthcare is a good idea?  Death rate from COVID is significantly higher in Canada and UK than the US.

Yet overal life expectancy in Canada and the UK and just about every country with government run health care is better than the US.

Go figure.....

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34 minutes ago, phill_nz said:

and new zealander's .. and most of the scandinavians / germans / europens i have met ( most as some didnt say anything about it so are unknown's )

 

the most common comment is how inhumane and or appalling the usa health care system is ... backed up by all of the usa doctors i have talked to about it

It's weird how the US health system is not considered inhumane or appalling by American voters.....

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1 hour ago, Rok Dog said:

Anyone think government run healthcare is a good idea?  Death rate from COVID is significantly higher in Canada and UK than the US.

Actually, that is not true

The US is the worst at dealing with the pandemic, both in total and per-capita. And it's ramping up again.

As for gov't run health care, does anybody other than Trumpalos think it's a good idea to ignore what doctors tell you about how to avoid a deadly disease?

- DSK

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49 minutes ago, phill_nz said:

you must have got the change over time .. they are hovering around 40 new cases per day for the last few days .. and seem to be going backwards fast

Its in the noise now, essentially running about one fiftieth the US's on a per capita basis........

Makes one think, maybe?

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1 hour ago, Ease the sheet. said:

It's weird how the US health system is not considered inhumane or appalling by American voters.....

If billionaires can't pad their numbers from it, it doesn't happen in the US. The exception to that rule is if something threatens their balance sheets or their lives.  COVID doesn't threaten their lives and they haven't figured out how to make money off of it other than the old standby of having Congress borrow it in all of our names and redistribute it to them. 

This will not change until the money runs out or heads start rolling. 

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5 hours ago, Rok Dog said:

Anyone think government run healthcare is a good idea?  Death rate from COVID is significantly higher in Canada and UK than the US.

Liar 

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2 hours ago, Raz'r said:
7 hours ago, Rok Dog said:

Anyone think government run healthcare is a good idea?  Death rate from COVID is significantly higher in Canada and UK than the US.

Liar  

Rok Dog is getting dumber by the day. Now he's adding a lack of honesty to an overall lack of character.

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48 minutes ago, Ishmael said:
2 hours ago, Raz'r said:
8 hours ago, Rok Dog said:

Anyone think government run healthcare is a good idea?  Death rate from COVID is significantly higher in Canada and UK than the US.

Liar  

Rok Dog is getting dumber by the day. Now he's adding a lack of honesty to an overall lack of character.

Well to be fair, he may actually believe what he's saying. It's easy to drown in deluge of right-wing media spew. They are constantly harping on how everybody to the left of Mike Pence is a goddam Socialist traitor AND SOCIALISM NEVER WORKS!!!! Similarly, they are always repeating that the US has by far the best health care in the world (and of course, anybody who doubts it is a goddam libby-rull faggot).

Lately, the most oft-repeated bit of their favorite bullshit is that Joe Biden is senile and doddering. That seems to be gaining street cred just thru the sheer repetition.

- DSK

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8 hours ago, Zonker said:

Yes, just about every Canadian and UK citizen.

Think of it as "healthcare where profit is not the motive" rather than focus on who is funding it.

Consider it as "healthcare where everybody has coverage and nobody dies from lack of funds to pay for insulin"

Why do you think virtually every Western Nation has some form of universal healthcare except the US? A: (a) they are all idiots OR (b) maybe the US system is not the best

 

This entire thread is based on How poorly the US government has responded to COVID19 yet we are actually doing pretty darned good.   Much better than the UK and Canada.  
 

whats wrong with getting jobs back in the US so people can have a decent income and afford their healthcare?  The vast majority of countries in the world protect their industries.  Why shouldn’t the US do that?

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17 minutes ago, Rok Dog said:

This entire thread is based on How poorly the US government has responded to COVID19 yet we are actually doing pretty darned good.   Much better than the UK and Canada.  

 

WTF are you smoking?  Where are you getting your information?  Fox News and Breitbart?  The EU is poised to open their borders to all, EXCEPT the US, because of our inept, bumbling, dealing with this Pandemic.  Trump claims no responsibility, yet he just defunded a half dozen Federally funded testing sites; why do such a stupid thing, when Covid is spiking in Texas, Florida, and other states

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Mr Dog, 

We now have individuals from the US admitting that they LIED when they told you the Canadian health care system doesn't work. 

https://www.upworthy.com/health-insurance-industry-lies-about-canadian-health-care

Do you still believe those lies?

And no, the US is not doing well at all in their response to the pandemic.  The US response is comparable to the developing world.  

 

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34 minutes ago, Bugsy said:

Mr Dog, 

We now have individuals from the US admitting that they LIED when they told you the Canadian health care system doesn't work. 

https://www.upworthy.com/health-insurance-industry-lies-about-canadian-health-care

Do you still believe those lies?

And no, the US is not doing well at all in their response to the pandemic.  The US response is comparable to the developing world.  

 

Yet another milestone on the way to becoming a banana republic.

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18 hours ago, Rok Dog said:

Anyone think government run healthcare is a good idea?  Death rate from COVID is significantly higher in Canada and UK than the US.

Pretty much EVERY PERSON IN THE FIRST WORLD is all.

Except maybe 50% of the population of the USA too selfish or stupid to realise they're being screwed.

FKT

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27 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:
18 hours ago, Rok Dog said:

Anyone think government run healthcare is a good idea?  Death rate from COVID is significantly higher in Canada and UK than the US.

Pretty much EVERY PERSON IN THE FIRST WORLD is all.

Except maybe 50% of the population of the USA too selfish or stupid to realise they're being screwed.

GRok sets a new standard for stupidity with that one.

Death rate in the States is 387 per million population

Death rate in Canada is 226 per million - 58% of the U.S. rate

Death rate here in B.C. is 33 per million - 8.5% of the U.S. rate. If the USA had our death rate your total dead would be 28,000 - that's 100,000 less than actual. Those 100,000 dead are all saying "Thanks Trump".

Stupidity is unfixable but ignorance is not.

Unless you're stupid.

Rok Dog is stupid. He's a perfect example of how Trump got elected.

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Sorry for the bold, but  . . 

This is unbelievable !!  (huffPo) 

Donald Trump’s campaign removed thousands of stickers on arena seats encouraging social distancing before the president’s rally last week in Tulsa, Oklahoma, Billboard and The Washington Post reported.

The “Do Not Sit Here Please!” stickers were intended to help stem the spread of COVID-19 cases, which were spiking in the city at the time of the June 20 event — and continue to climb in Tulsa and throughout Oklahoma.  . . . . 

“They also told us that they didn’t want any signs posted saying we should social distance in the venue,” he added. “The campaign went through and removed the stickers.”

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15 hours ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

If billionaires can't pad their numbers from it, it doesn't happen in the US. The exception to that rule is if something threatens their balance sheets or their lives.  COVID doesn't threaten their lives and they haven't figured out how to make money off of it other than the old standby of having Congress borrow it in all of our names and redistribute it to them. 

This will not change until the money runs out or heads start rolling. 

Unless the pitchfork owners have big boats or private jets, heads will never roll, and run out of public money? Bless your heart....

10 hours ago, Rok Dog said:

This entire thread is based on How poorly the US government has responded to COVID19 yet we are actually doing pretty darned good.   Much better than the UK and Canada.  
 

whats wrong with getting jobs back in the US so people can have a decent income and afford their healthcare?  The vast majority of countries in the world protect their industries.  Why shouldn’t the US do that?

The vast majority of countries in the world protect their citizens. Without which, you have no economy....

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10 hours ago, Rok Dog said:

This entire thread is based on How poorly the US government has responded to COVID19 yet we are actually doing pretty darned good.   Much better than the UK and Canada.  
 

while it's true the usa is doing better than many countries in the covid response, in some area's .    in most area's  it's just doing better than some

 

it's also been a long time since i have heard anyone in the usa bouncing for joy while chanting " yayyy we are not the bottom , we are not the bottom "

 

if your idea of success is just not being the worst at something .. then aspirations have fallen in the usa we used to know ( and quite liked at times )

 

the only figures that count are the ones where .. per head of population are used

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On 6/26/2020 at 7:12 AM, badlatitude said:

When we finally get down to the postmortem examination of this pandemic, the number of faults will be the most disturbing of all. We had doctors and health department officials telling us one thing, and then we had politicians too narcissistic to discover the truth, who told lies to calm the people while telling them they don't have to wear a mask or socially distance themselves. We had blunders over PPE and testing on the federal level, we had a severe shortage of respirators that was fixed by private enterprise, only to be hoarded by the government. I could go on like this all day, at some point we will get tired of pointing fingers and we will start looking to punish some of these idiots.

Isn't that what you are going to do in November?  The rest of the world is hoping....

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On 6/25/2020 at 9:27 PM, Rok Dog said:

We already know who to quarantine.   
 

as I’ve posted before - if this was truly a big deal Star Bucks wouldn’t have been allowed to remain open this entire time.

Huh?  They closed here.

 

On 6/26/2020 at 7:57 AM, Dog said:

Lots of mistakes have been made by lots of players including Trump but isn't the fight against the pandemic primarily fought at the state level. The federal responsibility is to provide support for the states. As I recall the states smacked Trump down when they thought he was overreaching and asserted their authority over the response in their states.

You mean when he wanted everybody to re-open by Easter?  When he wanted the States to join him in pretending there was no reason to stay locked down? 

 

 

19 hours ago, Rok Dog said:

Anyone think government run healthcare is a good idea?  Death rate from COVID is significantly higher in Canada and UK than the US.

OK, seriously  -  what fucking planet are you on?

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10 hours ago, billy backstay said:

 

WTF are you smoking?  Where are you getting your information?  Fox News and Breitbart?  The EU is poised to open their borders to all, EXCEPT the US, because of our inept, bumbling, dealing with this Pandemic.  Trump claims no responsibility, yet he just defunded a half dozen Federally funded testing sites; why do such a stupid thing, when Covid is spiking in Texas, Florida, and other states

Johns Hopkins.   
 

our death rate is pretty darned low.  
 

did you leave your home these past few months?  Is that Trumps fault?  
 

states determined what the quarantine requirements were.  Feds can’t do that.  You want to give Trump power over the states or just blame him because you can’t stand him.  

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39 minutes ago, Ease the sheet. said:

Unless the pitchfork owners have big boats or private jets, heads will never roll, and run out of public money? Bless your heart....

The vast majority of countries in the world protect their citizens. Without which, you have no economy....

We have a low death rate.  That’s good protection.  

Was it Italy or Spain where people were being left to die in their apartments and no one was even picking up the dead bodies?  That doesn’t sound like good protection other than to let the virus spread and kill off the weak quickly.

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10 hours ago, Rok Dog said:

This entire thread is based on How poorly the US government has responded to COVID19 yet we are actually doing pretty darned good.   Much better than the UK and Canada.  
 

whats wrong with getting jobs back in the US so people can have a decent income and afford their healthcare?  The vast majority of countries in the world protect their industries.  Why shouldn’t the US do that?

If we are talking deaths per million population, the UK has the 4th highest rate, the USA 9th highest, and Canada 20th.  So, the US is doing better than the UK, but not better than Canada as @SloopJonBpointed out.   In cases per million, the US is 12th highest, UK is 28th, and Canada 45th.  Canada is better on both counts, and the UK better one one.  So, please let us know who is supplying your pot, that is some good shit.

Canada is not only doing much better than the US on response to Covid, in addition the government has supported people who can't work due to the virus with $2000/month for up to 6 months.  Small business can get interest-free and partially forgiveable loans.  What did the US do for its people?  A one-time payment of $1200.  

Source: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

 

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1 minute ago, Rain Man said:

If we are talking deaths per million population, the UK has the 4th highest rate, the USA 9th highest, and Canada 20th.  So, the US is doing better than the UK, but not better than Canada as @SloopJonBpointed out.   In cases per million, the US is 12th highest, UK is 28th, and Canada 45th.  Canada is better on both counts, and the UK better one one.  So, please let us know who is supplying your pot, that is some good shit.

Canada is not only doing much better than the US on response to Covid, in addition the government has supported people who can't work due to the virus with $2000/month for up to 6 months.  Small business can get interest-free and partially forgiveable loans.  What did the US do for its people?  A one-time payment of $1200.  

 

 

According to JohnsHopkins the IS rate per 100K is significantly lower than Canada.   UK is off the charts high.

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31 minutes ago, Rok Dog said:

Go to JohnsHopkins website.

I gave you a direct link to the information.  Common courtesy suggests you should do the same.  The JHU website is a bunch of spaghetti from a navigation standpoint.

 

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6 minutes ago, Rain Man said:

Isn't that what you are going to do in November?  The rest of the world is hoping....

I love when good people seek justice when people have been so wronged. I can't predict what will happen, much like Iran Contra, or Black Site Torture, we don't know what the mood of the people or the power brokers will be. If America is in worse shape, it could be very bad for many in the administration. Trump is increasingly against a wall, make no mistake, he will do absolutely anything to stay in power. I thought at one point that Trump would fake covid, gaining sympathy, worry, support, forgiveness, in the process. Too bad six weeks out of the limelight damages everything else. It will be bad, probably like nothing we have ever seen, or will see ever again. I cannot wait to get past all of this.

 

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40 minutes ago, Rok Dog said:

Frenchie -  why do you ask?  
 

OK, seriously  -  what fucking planet are you on?

JohnsHopkins data not legit for you?

 

I assume you mean this page?

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality

Canada isn't even on the chart, because their death rate's too low. 

Whether per 100k or per confirmed cases, either chart: it's UK, US, and a bunch of (ahem) less-developed nations.  None of the 1st world socialized health care countries, except the UK, appear on either chart.

I ask again: what fucking planet are you on?

Only reason the UK's on there, is because they stupidly went for the "herd immunity" plan.  Even DJT said that was stupid (although he later/now seems to be trying to follow it).

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25 minutes ago, frenchie said:

I assume you mean this page?

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality

Canada isn't even on the chart, because their death rate's too low. 

Whether per 100k or per confirmed cases, either chart: it's UK, US, and a bunch of (ahem) less-developed nations.  None of the 1st world socialized health care countries, except the UK, appear on either chart.

I ask again: what fucking planet are you on?

Only reason the UK's on there, is because they stupidly went for the "herd immunity" plan.  Even DJT said that was stupid (although he later/now seems to be trying to follow it).

He obviously hasn't read it and was probably spewing talking points from a meme or just trolling. 

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1 hour ago, Rok Dog said:

Johns Hopkins.   
 

our death rate is pretty darned low.  
 

did you leave your home these past few months?  Is that Trumps fault?  
 

states determined what the quarantine requirements were.  Feds can’t do that.  You want to give Trump power over the states or just blame him because you can’t stand him.  

Low death rate?

Maybe you should look at that have recovered vs those that have died?

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6 hours ago, frenchie said:

You mean when he wanted everybody to re-open by Easter?  When he wanted the States to join him in pretending there was no reason to stay locked down? 

 

But the states, not Trump, controlled the response in their states making both good and bad decisions. So are the deaths in your state really "Trump deaths" or would it be more accurate to call them "Coumo deaths"?

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11 minutes ago, Dog said:

But the states, not Trump, controlled the response in their states making both good and bad decisions. So are the deaths in your state really "Trump deaths" or would it be more accurate to call them "Coumo deaths"?

Does Cuomo control the CDC? How about the emergency reserve stockpiles? How about urging "the hydroxy".... just think, if everybody would take lots of hydroxychloroquine, or maybe inject bleach ("It knocks it out in a minute... a minute!!")

- DSK

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15 minutes ago, Dog said:

But the states, not Trump, controlled the response in their states making both good and bad decisions. So are the deaths in your state really "Trump deaths" or would it be more accurate to call them "Coumo deaths"?

Trump’s response was so slow, states couldn’t do anything in response for a long time. That’s been the problem all along. Cuomo and others made some very egregious mistakes but Trump made the whole response worse and he continues to foul up federal solutions.

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Save your seven o'clock hour for this revelation.

Federal officials allowed distribution of COVID-19 antibody tests after they knew many were flawed 

Federal officials failed to immediately stop the distribution of many COVID-19 antibody tests they knew were flawed, leading to inaccurate data about the spread of the virus. Congress is now investigating why the FDA did not review the tests it allowed to be distributed widely throughout the U.S. Sharyn Alfonsi's three-month investigation into the faulty tests will be broadcast on 60 Minutes, Sunday, June 28 at 7 p.m. ET/PT on CBS. 

COVID-19 diagnostic kits were in short supply when the pandemic broke out. An alternative test to detect the presence of antibodies in blood was sold as a way to indicate who was exposed to the virus at some point and could now be immune. Such tests would help officials track the disease and determine when it might be safe to begin opening up the economy. The FDA said it would allow the antibody tests to enter the US market and would do so without a formal review. Over 200 companies hit the market with the tests. 

Laredo, Texas, wound up getting thousands of antibody test kits from a Chinese company. The untested kits were then tested by the city's health director, Dr. Hector Gonzalez, who found the tests accuracy to differ wildly depending on when it was given and how long after a person was exposed to the virus. The small sample he tested was only about 20% accurate. "We had such high hopes to test… we were ready to do public drive-through testing… Now we couldn't. We were on hold," recalls Gonzalez. 

Laredo officials reported the faulty tests to federal agents at Homeland Security and officials came to town to seize the tests and start an investigation, but the federal government did little to halt the spread of other un-proven antibody testing kits. 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/federal-officials-allowed-flawed-covid-19-antibody-tests-2020-06-25/

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29 minutes ago, badlatitude said:
44 minutes ago, Dog said:

But the states, not Trump, controlled the response in their states making both good and bad decisions. So are the deaths in your state really "Trump deaths" or would it be more accurate to call them "Coumo deaths"?

Trump’s response was so slow, states couldn’t do anything in response for a long time. That’s been the problem all along. Cuomo and others made some very egregious mistakes but Trump made the whole response worse and he continues to foul up federal solutions.

 

But it's the states fault that they didn't get support, say for example, from the Fed's emergency stockpiles... they would have been fine if they'd been nice to Trump & Pence.

- DSK

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5 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

 

But it's the states fault that they didn't get support, say for example, from the Fed's emergency stockpiles... they would have been fine if they'd been nice to Trump & Pence.

- DSK

Sadly, that's true. DeSantis ended up with so much PPE he didn't know what to do with it. All he had to do was wait.

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8 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Sounds like he's doing a slow motion Jim Jones.

I don't think the comparison is valid. It suited Jones' vanity for all his followers to die. Trump really doesn't care one why or the other. He is completely amoral. If pressed, he would probably say that it would be better if they did not die because dead people can't buy MAGA hats. They already have one to be buried in.

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7 hours ago, Rok Dog said:

Johns Hopkins.   
 

our death rate is pretty darned low.  
 

did you leave your home these past few months?  Is that Trumps fault?  
 

states determined what the quarantine requirements were.  Feds can’t do that.  You want to give Trump power over the states or just blame him because you can’t stand him.  

 

Surging Covid cases in many states.  The Feds should have led the plan to deal with this, instead of shirking their duty.  I leave my house every day to go to work.

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6 minutes ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

I wonder how many lives would have been saved if Trump had started wearing a mask on May 1? How many would be saved if he started wearing one today?

What I do not understand, what is it about wearing masks that makes the Trumptards so friggin' angry?

I had a guy tell me the other day that a "public business" could not keep anyone out for not wearing a mask. I said, "What is a public business?" He said, "You dumbass, a business that is traded on the stock market is publicly owned, you have the constitutional right to go in there regardless of wearing a mask."

I think he may be Warbird's long lost brother

- DSK

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14 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

What I do not understand, what is it about wearing masks that makes the Trumptards so friggin' angry?

I had a guy tell me the other day that a "public business" could not keep anyone out for not wearing a mask. I said, "What is a public business?" He said, "You dumbass, a business that is traded on the stock market is publicly owned, you have the constitutional right to go in there regardless of wearing a mask."

I think he may be Warbird's long lost brother

- DSK

Republicans interpret the numbers differently. I had a friend tell me that 3,000,000 people live in Orange County, and only 268 have died. There is no serious threat. Naturally, the same goes for the mask, no threat, no harm.

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27 minutes ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

I wonder how many lives would have been saved if Trump had started wearing a mask on May 1? How many would be saved if he started wearing one today?

https://fox6now.com/2020/06/26/33k-american-lives-could-be-saved-if-95-of-people-wear-masks-in-public-model-used-by-white-house-shows/

Excerpt -
Researchers are forecasting that more than 179,000 Americans will die by Oct. 1. That number drops to around 146,000 people if at least 95% of people wear masks — a difference of 33,000 lives.

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When I see numbers like 33,000 deaths I think of our response when a passenger plane goes down. If you had 330 people killed in a crash (a big plane) we are talking 100 such crashes. We do so much after a crash (or two), ask Boeing, but the US response to COVID has been so tepid and we are talking about many hundreds of crashes with new crashes every day.

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17 minutes ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

When I see numbers like 33,000 deaths I think of our response when a passenger plane goes down. If you had 330 people killed in a crash (a big plane) we are talking 100 such crashes. We do so much after a crash (or two), ask Boeing, but the US response to COVID has been so tepid and we are talking about many hundreds of crashes with new crashes every day.

Well right, but even Trumpublicans think that planes should not crash. Somehow 130K people dying of "the China virus" is not real... maybe because they can blame China, they feel it's OK for Trump to not do anything.

- DSK

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9 hours ago, Rok Dog said:

We have a low death rate.  That’s good protection.  

No one else thinks that.

Most EU members have now approved an initial list of “safe” countries whose citizens will be allowed to travel to the EU/Schengen area** as of 1 July. The US is not on that list. Canada is. UK is in no man's land apparently as list prepared with EU27 solidarity in mind (as power obviously rests with each state,) UK is no longer is in the EU and there is a reciprocity issue (it is quarantining all non UK citizens which is a Govt "dead cat" stunt).

This is still fluid and WIP as some EU countries still have borders closed to others such as Sweden.

Criteria for EU access includes virus infection rate but also the efficacy of the non-EU country’s healthcare and test, track and trace system plus the transparency of its health data as well as reciprocity issue: ie if country allows EU/Schengen citizens to travel there 

** Schengen Area

This is not the list just sampling for guidance. Final column indicates current mortality situation.

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46 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

What I do not understand, what is it about wearing masks that makes the Trumptards so friggin' angry?

... snip ...

- DSK

Maybe you need to spin it a little?

There must be a deep-state-fearing subset within the MAGA crowd. Tell them that mask is the best defense against surveillance cameras and facial recognition in public areas, so Feds won't drop by their house and ask nasty questions about the artillery they were carrying that day.

Reality beats parody, so no purple font.

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24 minutes ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

When I see numbers like 33,000 deaths I think of our response when a passenger plane goes down. If you had 330 people killed in a crash (a big plane) we are talking 100 such crashes. We do so much after a crash (or two), ask Boeing, but the US response to COVID has been so tepid and we are talking about many hundreds of crashes with new crashes every day.

When I see the same numbers I scratch my head and wonder, Trump had ten separate intel briefings since last November, How did we get here? The best word I can up with is incompetence.

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52 minutes ago, Grog said:

Maybe you need to spin it a little?

There must be a deep-state-fearing subset within the MAGA crowd. Tell them that mask is the best defense against surveillance cameras and facial recognition in public areas, so Feds won't drop by their house and ask nasty questions about the artillery they were carrying that day.

Reality beats parody, so no purple font.

Actually I’ve been thinking similar thoughts from the opposite direction.    Unlike the sometimes allied Libertarian fringe group that also loves guns, the bulk of the Republican Party is law and order, FISA warrants for non white Christians, pro wiretapping for anybody not working for Trump or Putin.    They have a love / hate relationship with facial recognition software in public places.   Trump loves it, even if all brown people look alike.    He now tells the party what they think.    It is my supposition masks are a direct threat to this spy network and all the commercial investment in this area.   Somebody needs to follow the money trail of political donations from surveillance companies.  That ignores the corporate benefits of knowing who your customers are, who goes to the competition, what they do next from the same software.    Is it coincidence many Republicans are anti mask, or just a great example of public manipulation on behest of their donors?

https://thehill.com/policy/technology/452529-trump-officials-defend-use-of-facial-recognition-amid-backlash

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3 hours ago, Lark said:

Actually I’ve been thinking similar thoughts from the opposite direction.    Unlike the sometimes allied Libertarian fringe group that also loves guns, the bulk of the Republican Party is law and order, FISA warrants for non white Christians, pro wiretapping for anybody not working for Trump or Putin.    They have a love / hate relationship with facial recognition software in public places.   Trump loves it, even if all brown people look alike.    He now tells the party what they think.    It is my supposition masks are a direct threat to this spy network and all the commercial investment in this area.   Somebody needs to follow the money trail of political donations from surveillance companies.  That ignores the corporate benefits of knowing who your customers are, who goes to the competition, what they do next from the same software.    Is it coincidence many Republicans are anti mask, or just a great example of public manipulation on behest of their donors?

https://thehill.com/policy/technology/452529-trump-officials-defend-use-of-facial-recognition-amid-backlash

I agree with your thoughts.

Surveillance and (facial) recognition are a growing business for big data companies and any kind of intelligence and law enforcement. These activities are also heavily lobbied, just in case. That is serious stuff that should be dealt with in the very near future, because the possible outcomes are, as of today, beyond comprehension in a free society (social scoring, anyone?).

But that is an - although valid - very different take on the point I was trying to make. I was merely suggesting a kind of prank to put some more masks on MAGA faces. Probably stupid, but hey! Anarchy! :)

 

Edited by Grog
Afterthought on serious stuff
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4 hours ago, badlatitude said:

When I see the same numbers I scratch my head and wonder, Trump had ten separate intel briefings since last November, How did we get here? The best word I can up with is incompetence.

He (Trump) had a golden opportunity to be a hero (if that’s possible). 
Had he done the exact opposite of what he did we would be in a far better place with respect to this pandemic. The country would arguably be far less divided, and he would likely be re-elected. What an idiot. 

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Just now, Sean said:

He (Trump) had a golden opportunity to be a hero (if that’s possible). 
Had he done the exact opposite of what he did we would be in a far better place with respect to this pandemic. The country would arguably be far less divided, and he would likely be re-elected. What an idiot. 

That's exactly right, and now he has to live with the results of his incompetence, and dream of what could have been.

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1 hour ago, Sean said:

He (Trump) had a golden opportunity to be a hero (if that’s possible). 
Had he done the exact opposite of what he did we would be in a far better place with respect to this pandemic. The country would arguably be far less divided, and he would likely be re-elected. What an idiot. 

He doesn't think or plan just reacts to positions others are taking after which he will not change as he never "backs down." He may need to explain the joke or satire that nobody got but no backing down.

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57 minutes ago, badlatitude said:

That's exactly right, and now he has to live with the results of his incompetence, and dream of what could have been.

It’s worse than incompetence. He as always calculated what was best for Trump, with little consideration for what’s best for the country. I can live with a little incompetence, malignant narcissism not so much.
This guy nails it -

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Lark said:

Actually I’ve been thinking similar thoughts from the opposite direction.    Unlike the sometimes allied Libertarian fringe group that also loves guns, the bulk of the Republican Party is law and order, FISA warrants for non white Christians, pro wiretapping for anybody not working for Trump or Putin.    They have a love / hate relationship with facial recognition software in public places.   Trump loves it, even if all brown people look alike.    He now tells the party what they think.    It is my supposition masks are a direct threat to this spy network and all the commercial investment in this area.   Somebody needs to follow the money trail of political donations from surveillance companies.  That ignores the corporate benefits of knowing who your customers are, who goes to the competition, what they do next from the same software.    Is it coincidence many Republicans are anti mask, or just a great example of public manipulation on behest of their donors?

https://thehill.com/policy/technology/452529-trump-officials-defend-use-of-facial-recognition-amid-backlash

No need to "follow the money" more than a few steps down the Cabinet meeting room table.

It's spelled Eric Prince, Betsy DeVos' friggin' brother and head of Blackwater.  

If you want to follow different paths of money, head on over to Elaine Chao's chair and pat Wilbur Ross on the head as you go "buy".

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8 hours ago, Dog said:

But the states, not Trump, controlled the response in their states making both good and bad decisions. So are the deaths in your state really "Trump deaths" or would it be more accurate to call them "Coumo deaths"?

Both, and also DeBlasio (not sure why you left him out).

The difference is, Cuomo and DeBalsio eventually snapped out of it.  They changed their tune, from "go catch a movie" and "there won't be a lockdown", to "stay the fuck home, wear a mask when you go out, keep social distance, this isn't a fucking joke". 

Trump... carried on with the bullshit, denialism, and pie-in-the-sky.  It'll be gone by April, this or that's really promising, we've made tremendous progress, we should re-open by easter, etc. 

What's now happening, and is about to happen, in other States  -  that's squarely on Trump.

 

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Once again we get the Dog Dodge of shifting the blame from Trump - I mean every governor and mayor should have had intelligence on the ground in Wuhan right? Expecting the feds empowered with collecting and informing us of a pandemic to actually do that is just so liberally pansy and shit.

FREEDUMB!!!

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26 minutes ago, Sean said:

It’s worse than incompetence. He as always calculated what was best for Trump, with little consideration for what’s best for the country. I can live with a little incompetence, malignant narcissism not so much.
This guy nails it -

 

 

 

Very nice, thanks for adding that.

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1 hour ago, frenchie said:

Both, and also DeBlasio (not sure why you left him out).

The difference is, Cuomo and DeBalsio eventually snapped out of it.  They changed their tune, from "go catch a movie" and "there won't be a lockdown", to "stay the fuck home, wear a mask when you go out, keep social distance, this isn't a fucking joke". 

Trump... carried on with the bullshit, denialism, and pie-in-the-sky.  It'll be gone by April, this or that's really promising, we've made tremendous progress, we should re-open by easter, etc. 

What's now happening, and is about to happen, in other States  -  that's squarely on Trump.

 

Yeah...I thought DeBlasio also. The point is simply Trump is not responsible for errors made by the states (past or future) and there have been some fucking doosies. Calling all pandemic deaths “Trump deaths” is stupid.

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1 hour ago, d'ranger said:

Once again we get the Dog Dodge of shifting the blame from Trump - I mean every governor and mayor should have had intelligence on the ground in Wuhan right? Expecting the feds empowered with collecting and informing us of a pandemic to actually do that is just so liberally pansy and shit.

FREEDUMB!!!

The states made mistakes that cost lives...dodge that.

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1 minute ago, Dog said:

The states made mistakes that cost lives...dodge that.

Nobody is perfect but you get the same analogy I gave Karen Man - when the troops go into battle and the shit hits the fan because of poor or lack of planning don't blame the guy who was in charge, right? The Pandumbic Response Team fucked the beginning, Trump did his I have absolute authority shtick and then said, guys you are on your own.

fuck leadership, I mean who needs it, amiright?

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19 minutes ago, Dog said:

Yeah...I thought DeBlasio also. The point is simply Trump is not responsible for errors made by the states (past or future) and there have been some fucking doosies. Calling all pandemic deaths “Trump deaths” is stupid.

The disunity between states and feds gives air to the conspiracy theorists, crazies and anti science crowd.

Putting doubt in people's minds, feeding their own biases is directly Trump's fault.

And it's was purposely done. Not for the protection of citizens, but for the reelection campaign.

 

Yeah team!

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27 minutes ago, d'ranger said:

Nobody is perfect but you get the same analogy I gave Karen Man - when the troops go into battle and the shit hits the fan because of poor or lack of planning don't blame the guy who was in charge, right? The Pandumbic Response Team fucked the beginning, Trump did his I have absolute authority shtick and then said, guys you are on your own.

fuck leadership, I mean who needs it, amiright?

Trump is not responsible for  poor or lack of planning by the states. Or for poor decisions by the states. Attributing all pandemic deaths to Trump is just stupid.

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2 minutes ago, Ease the sheet. said:

The disunity between states and feds gives air to the conspiracy theorists, crazies and anti science crowd.

Putting doubt in people's minds, feeding their own biases is directly Trump's fault.

And it's was purposely done. Not for the protection of citizens, but for the reelection campaign.

 

Yeah team!

Disunity...Did you hear what Coumo and Newsome said about the support they got from the feds?

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On 5/17/2020 at 6:13 AM, Gouvernail said:

We need a daily reminder. The names of “people Trump killed today” should be read aloud every day on Radio and TV. 

89,420.  Dead Americans So far 
+1,231  Were killed Saturday
 
 
 

You are a dick head at best.

People are idiots and if they cannot make a decision for themselves, then god help  those that rely on the government Liberal or Conservative.

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This should surprise exactly no one -

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/media/the-data-is-in-fox-news-may-have-kept-millions-from-taking-the-coronavirus-threat-seriously/2020/06/26/60d88aa2-b7c3-11ea-a8da-693df3d7674a_story.html

The data is in: Fox News may have kept millions from taking the coronavirus threat seriously

Excerpt -

It’s another one of those Trump Era realities best described as unsurprising but nevertheless shocking.

Three serious research efforts have put numerical weight — yes, data-driven evidence — behind what many suspected all along: Americans who relied on Fox News, or similar right-wing sources, were duped as the coronavirus began its deadly spread.

Dangerously duped.

The studies “paint a picture of a media ecosystem that amplifies misinformation, entertains conspiracy theories and discourages audiences from taking concrete steps to protect themselves and others,” wrote my colleague Christopher Ingraham in an analysis last week.

Here’s the reality, now backed by numbers:

Those who relied on mainstream sources — the network evening newscasts or national newspapers that President Trump constantly blasts as “fake news” — got an accurate assessment of the pandemic’s risks. Those were the news consumers who were more likely to respond accordingly, protecting themselves and others against the disease that has now killed more than 123,000 in the United States with no end in sight.
 
Those who relied on Fox or, say, radio personality Rush Limbaugh, came to believe that vitamin C was a possible remedy, that the Chinese government created the virus in a lab, and that government health agencies were exaggerating the dangers in the hopes of damaging Trump politically, a survey showed.
 
 
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1 hour ago, Meat Wad said:

You are a dick head at best.

People are idiots and if they cannot make a decision for themselves, then god help  those that rely on the government Liberal or Conservative.

I hated it when the government warned me that a break in a major water main made my faucet water potentially unsafe.

My stomach might have let me know that after I ingested water with parasites.  Damn government.  Do they think I am a fucking baby?

Everyone knows intrinsically about bad water.  The dust clouds from the Sahara?  When my daughter was having trouble breathing she figured it out.  

Let's get the government out of the business of government.  Then we could have some serious personal responsibility.

 

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54 minutes ago, Sean said:

 

This should surprise exactly no one -

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/media/the-data-is-in-fox-news-may-have-kept-millions-from-taking-the-coronavirus-threat-seriously/2020/06/26/60d88aa2-b7c3-11ea-a8da-693df3d7674a_story.html

The data is in: Fox News may have kept millions from taking the coronavirus threat seriously

Excerpt -

It’s another one of those Trump Era realities best described as unsurprising but nevertheless shocking.

Three serious research efforts have put numerical weight — yes, data-driven evidence — behind what many suspected all along: Americans who relied on Fox News, or similar right-wing sources, were duped as the coronavirus began its deadly spread.

Dangerously duped.

The studies “paint a picture of a media ecosystem that amplifies misinformation, entertains conspiracy theories and discourages audiences from taking concrete steps to protect themselves and others,” wrote my colleague Christopher Ingraham in an analysis last week.

Here’s the reality, now backed by numbers:

Those who relied on mainstream sources — the network evening newscasts or national newspapers that President Trump constantly blasts as “fake news” — got an accurate assessment of the pandemic’s risks. Those were the news consumers who were more likely to respond accordingly, protecting themselves and others against the disease that has now killed more than 123,000 in the United States with no end in sight.
 
Those who relied on Fox or, say, radio personality Rush Limbaugh, came to believe that vitamin C was a possible remedy, that the Chinese government created the virus in a lab, and that government health agencies were exaggerating the dangers in the hopes of damaging Trump politically, a survey showed.
 
 

I'm not surprised.

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2 hours ago, Dog said:

Trump is not responsible for  poor or lack of planning by the states. Or for poor decisions by the states. Attributing all pandemic deaths to Trump is just stupid.

Fine, just all deaths exceeding that by countries with a real leader.    If we can agree Germany has a real leader, that makes Trump personally responsible for 92-95,000 dead Americans (predicted deaths based on deaths per million, assuming Trump suddenly becomes competent tomorrow and nobody else dies).   Alternately Americans are just generally inferior to Germans and it’s not Trump’s fault.   Which do you believe?   Are Germans the master race, or is Trump a moron?   

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6 minutes ago, Lark said:

Fine, just all deaths exceeding that by countries with a real leader.    If we can agree Germany has a real leader, that makes Trump personally responsible for 92-95,000 dead Americans.   Alternately Americans are just generally inferior to Germans and it’s not Trump’s fault.   Which do you believe?   Are Germans the master race, or is Trump a moron?   

 

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2 hours ago, hasher said:

I hated it when the government warned me that a break in a major water main made my faucet water potentially unsafe.

My stomach might have let me know that after I ingested water with parasites.  Damn government.  Do they think I am a fucking baby?

Everyone knows intrinsically about bad water.  The dust clouds from the Sahara?  When my daughter was having trouble breathing she figured it out.  

Let's get the government out of the business of government.  Then we could have some serious personal responsibility.

 

Well, you know, I've got that electron microscope in my basement just gathering dust.  If I hadn't been distracted by relying on government, I could have certainly swabbed all my neighbors noses, checked out how novel that little virus sucker is and come up with a plan for my own vaccine. 

Easy peasy.

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4 hours ago, Sean said:

 

This should surprise exactly no one -

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/media/the-data-is-in-fox-news-may-have-kept-millions-from-taking-the-coronavirus-threat-seriously/2020/06/26/60d88aa2-b7c3-11ea-a8da-693df3d7674a_story.html

The data is in: Fox News may have kept millions from taking the coronavirus threat seriously

Excerpt -

It’s another one of those Trump Era realities best described as unsurprising but nevertheless shocking.

Three serious research efforts have put numerical weight — yes, data-driven evidence — behind what many suspected all along: Americans who relied on Fox News, or similar right-wing sources, were duped as the coronavirus began its deadly spread.

Dangerously duped.

The studies “paint a picture of a media ecosystem that amplifies misinformation, entertains conspiracy theories and discourages audiences from taking concrete steps to protect themselves and others,” wrote my colleague Christopher Ingraham in an analysis last week.

Here’s the reality, now backed by numbers:

Those who relied on mainstream sources — the network evening newscasts or national newspapers that President Trump constantly blasts as “fake news” — got an accurate assessment of the pandemic’s risks. Those were the news consumers who were more likely to respond accordingly, protecting themselves and others against the disease that has now killed more than 123,000 in the United States with no end in sight.
 
Those who relied on Fox or, say, radio personality Rush Limbaugh, came to believe that vitamin C was a possible remedy, that the Chinese government created the virus in a lab, and that government health agencies were exaggerating the dangers in the hopes of damaging Trump politically, a survey showed.
 
 

Reliance on Fox News and getting things wrong has been going on forever.

This study is from 2003 about misperceptions and support for the Iraq war.

https://drum.lib.umd.edu/bitstream/handle/1903/10198/Misperceptions, the Media and the Iraq War.pdf?sequence=3&isAllowed=y

Here’s the basic takeaway:

“Those who primarily watch Fox News are significantly more likely to have misperceptions, while those who primarily listen to NPR or watch PBS are significantly less likely.”

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3 hours ago, hasher said:

I hated it when the government warned me that a break in a major water main made my faucet water potentially unsafe.

My stomach might have let me know that after I ingested water with parasites.  Damn government.  Do they think I am a fucking baby?

Everyone knows intrinsically about bad water.  The dust clouds from the Sahara?  When my daughter was having trouble breathing she figured it out.  

Let's get the government out of the business of government.  Then we could have some serious personal responsibility.

 

How did she know it was Saharan dust? Just wondering...

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5 hours ago, Meat Wad said:

You are a dick head at best.

People are idiots and if they cannot make a decision for themselves, then god help  those that rely on the government Liberal or Conservative.

Independent, conservative or liberal, people need and demand leadership and guidance. Trump has provided neither. Left to their own devices, it would seem, based on recent experience, that people will sink to the lowest common denominator unless called upon to honor their better natures. If Trump would push for more testing, and at least wear a mask in public, that would be some sign of leadership or at least intelligence. But what has he demonstrated to date? Not a scintilla of either.

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