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Annapolis Performance Sailing - OFFICIALLY DEAD


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Sourced sails from Bacon's for several programs over the years, all good value even with shipping to Hawaii.  Even better value when luggage came back from the right coast packed with sails.  

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On 5/21/2020 at 1:37 PM, WestCoast said:

The amount of respect we have had for APS over the years is massive. 
The company he built, the selection and inventory.

It's hard to maintain all that, it's a daily fight and the game keeps changing too.
But, god, we always looked up to them.
 

A business owner is going to do what they have to do, and while some calls are not easy - sometimes, well, you have to try things.
Sometimes, you are wrong.

--
I didn't know Kyle very much personally, but, I stopped by their store last week to say hello.
Closed up tight, unfortunately. And I know a lot of companies are struggling because of being forced to be closed - and layoffs.

Unfortunately, a lot of those jobs just won't come back. 
 

I wish those guys all the best.

My respect for APS is not diminished at all by this, or their decision in October to pivot. 
That was a damn good operation, no question about it.

Buy the APS location call it East Coast Sailing?

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It bums me out how few places are still making their own covers and such too, I think Colie Sails and Moorhouse are the only ones? So much better quality that what you would get from laser

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20 hours ago, fastyacht said:

It's amazing, but they built the 140 foot Nigel Gee high speed cats that ran the Atantic Highlands route in those buildings. I surveyed one in the yard--landed cattywampus but just fit! Favourite weirdness: driving up to the roof to park!

Oh, and the interior for Koslowski's Frer's sloop was put together there, too (the hull was built in Bridgeport--you yoused to see it gleaming in the sun as you went over the 95 bridge). I spumbled across the interior in one of the rooms in that building, on the way down from the roof parking!

Used to work at Derecktors......it’s mostly flat on the inside but I got lost a couple of times between the shop, the mold loft, engineering  and the wood shop.......

the crane was pretty scary....quite a story about how Bob D bought the crane, shipped it himself from somewhere south (Louisiana?) and then installed it.....and then the town wasn’t too happy.....

picked up a ~90ft wooden schooner with about 3ft thick growth on it, you could hear the crane engine straining to lift....stuff filled  a couple of dumpsters.....

also when we were moving a 100’ out of the shed, used the crane and big turning block out on the apron..........we all stood clear and when the cradle caught on a seam in the concrete, the block exploded and was launched into orbit.......

the big frers is (or was a year ago) on a mooring in the harbor

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On 5/21/2020 at 11:00 AM, atyourcervix said:

Another small business murdered by Democrat leaders in government. 

Well the cats out of the bag. Obama( Biden’s puppet master ) started the whole Covid 19 deal.   This post will self destruct in 12 hrs. 

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23 hours ago, trimfast said:

West Marine. Coincidentally this was also the first winter APS didn't have a rigging sale. Is it a connection?

West Marine on Hillsmere Dr does an excellent job on rigging, and if it’s a line they don’t carry, they will still do the splices even if you order it elsewhere. They are also fast too, every time I have said I needed something for a specific race, they have made the deadline. Can’t recommend highly enough.

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10 hours ago, KC375 said:

If it was empty...then it sure was not bringing in 22k a month. Nothing dumber than an empty real estate investment.

No, nothing is dumber than a greedy landlord. Would rather earn nothing than let it rent for less than what they imagine it’s worth.
 

Unfortunately having the good luck to own waterfront property doesn’t equate to a lick of business sense.

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On 5/21/2020 at 4:29 PM, Raz'r said:

Here's just one of the challenges of a niche industry retail:

You sell line. People buy it, you add blocks and shit, they buy that, soon you're a chandlery and selling a broad range of stuff, but the cost of carrying inventory is a killer. Some of this shit moves like once/year, but you need to carry it to compete.

You look at your margins, and you find you make all your money on clothing, cause it's drop shipped and you don't have to carry inventory. Cool! Maybe (and I'm NOT saying this happened here) we could cut that low margin stuff that's killing me, and sell the high margin stuff?

Problem is, without the loss leader of that PITA hardware shit, no one comes in to look at the high margin stuff cause, guess what, those clothing vendors will drop ship through anyone. You now are just another clothing website, and who goes to those?

We used to bum rides out to Lands' End on Elston on the days before the Mac race, and we called it 'Money's End".  Then Gary Comer discovered he had larger margins selling soft goods (first, just duffel bags) ... no more chandlery.  That's life in the marine parts game. :-(

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Ordered new dinghy gear from Rooster (UK), Magic Marine (UK) and Mauri in St Pete.  Took two weeks and everything fits.  And if it didn’t fit? Hell to pay.

Last local dinghy outfitter closed 6 mos ago, only option was drive to Dago (75 miles), try gear on in parking lot (covid closed - curb sevice only) and go for it.

New World.

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17 minutes ago, blunderfull said:

Ordered new dinghy gear from Rooster (UK), Magic Marine (UK) and Mauri in St Pete.  Took two weeks and everything fits.  And if it didn’t fit? Hell to pay.

Last local dinghy outfitter closed 6 mos ago, only option was drive to Dago (75 miles), try gear on in parking lot (covid closed - curb sevice only) and go for it.

New World.

Duct Tape.

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1 hour ago, blunderfull said:

 

Last local dinghy outfitter closed 6 mos ago, only option was drive to Dago (75 miles), try gear on in parking lot (covid closed - curb sevice only) and go for it.

New World.

 Sailing Pro Shop? They got bought / sold, moved next to Minneys, and their website has been down for a few months it seems.

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So glad we have Fisheries Supply out here.  They do a great job and support the local community all day long.

The other day I needed to replace a contaminated water tank in my 17 year-old, NZL built boat.  I had dim hopes that it wouldn't turn into a ridiculous remodeling project to get a new tank fitted.  Fisheries had the EXACT tank in stock, in their warehouse below the retail store.  One call downstairs, a bit of assistance picking stuff off the shelves for all the connection fittings and hoses and I walked out in 30 minutes for just a bit over $150 bucks.  Headed back to the boat, stuck it in and wondered what I was going to to with the rest of the day.  

Another reason I try to never buy on line.

Yay, Carl and his team.

 

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I bought lots of widgets, gadgets, stuff, and thingys over the years from APS.  And I always hit the sale bin for Amsteel to make my soft shackles.  My purchases of this stuff wasn't going to keep them in business BUT, more than a few times I went in for some piece and happened to wander over to the clothing section and ended up buying some shorts/jacket/shirt.   And before they changed their model, bought a pair of MPX foulies because I needed some that were actually going to keep me dry no matter what. Oh, and while we're in there I told my wife, hey see if you can find some better foulies for yourself!  Yeah, they made money off our clothing purchases but I sure wouldn't have even been in the store without all the hardware/gear/line.  

Few years back I got picked up as last minute replacement crew for a boat in some regatta. The next day they broke something; think IIRC it was a gudgeon.  Missed one race and were back on the water because APS had what they needed. 

Sorry to see any business go under, but this wasn't hard to foresee.

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On 5/23/2020 at 2:56 PM, blunderfull said:

Ordered new dinghy gear from Rooster (UK), Magic Marine (UK) and Mauri in St Pete.  Took two weeks and everything fits.  And if it didn’t fit? Hell to pay.

Last local dinghy outfitter closed 6 mos ago, only option was drive to Dago (75 miles), try gear on in parking lot (covid closed - curb sevice only) and go for it.

New World.

THIS is, the root of the reason the industry suffers. All the items you bought, are readily available at small independent dealers all around the country.
Instead of shopping at a business that employee sailors, or supports local events, or sponsors sailors - you bought from a discounter.

Last I checked, aside from Juan, there aren't any people at Mauri who are actually.. sailors.
And, they don't have inventory.

It's a mostly drop ship operation, staffed by computer SEO/SEM people.
Look at their *About Us * page.  Do you see the profiles of all the people like you saw at APS?
Do you see their sailing resumes, backgrounds, etc?

 

Nope.  You just bought what was cheapest, and you don't think about it anymore than that.
And, neither did most people.  So, they all saved some money, and watched all the businesses go away.
 

***********
It's not a 'New World' because APS went out of business mate.
It's a 'New World' because people don't take 10 seconds to support the stores that support the sport.

***********

There are dozens of other places you could have bought that stuff from, some of which deeply support sailing regionally, or at the state level.
But, you bought from a discounter, because... it was easier that supporting a company that actually is staffed with sailors and sailing enthusiasts who give back to the community.

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Matter of fact Blatant is that APS wasn't filling order properly and then not at all.  I tried ordering rigging done by them and it was a kluster-fck last time.  People stopped using them when they stopped being reliable supplier.  That simple.  Do I admire Jeff Bezos and Amazon?  Not necessarily, but if they can get me the good cheaply and reliably and Brand X homeboy store can't, I'll choose Big Box any day.  That's a fact.

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The above is a sign of a business right on the margin of going out of business. Suppliers who get paid late no longer ship on account, it is cash in advance or GTFO. Once you start down this road it is very hard to come back, the more your inventory and service suffers, the less business you get, rinse, repeat.

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1 hour ago, BlatantEcho said:

THIS is, the root of the reason the industry suffers. All the items you bought, are readily available at small independent dealers all around the country.
Instead of shopping at a business that employee sailors, or supports local events, or sponsors sailors - you bought from a discounter.

Last I checked, aside from Juan, there aren't any people at Mauri who are actually.. sailors.
And, they don't have inventory.

It's a mostly drop ship operation, staffed by computer SEO/SEM people.
Look at their *About Us * page.  Do you see the profiles of all the people like you saw at APS?
Do you see their sailing resumes, backgrounds, etc?

 

Nope.  You just bought what was cheapest, and you don't think about it anymore than that.
And, neither did most people.  So, they all saved some money, and watched all the businesses go away.
 

***********
It's not a 'New World' because APS went out of business mate.
It's a 'New World' because people don't take 10 seconds to support the stores that support the sport.

***********

There are dozens of other places you could have bought that stuff from, some of which deeply support sailing regionally, or at the state level.
But, you bought from a discounter, because... it was easier that supporting a company that actually is staffed with sailors and sailing enthusiasts who give back to the community.

You can’t possibly know me or my buying habits, so I’ll let this pass w/o too long a pushback.

Truth is, all my boats, sails and gear have been bought locally.  However, two of my main sources closed in the last six months.   Not ready to throw my business to West Marine I tried some new “discounters.”
 

 I like the gear Brits make for my class so I went in on it.  I looked at pics of guys at regattas to see what’s new/popular, check reviews & prices, then order.   Rooster & Magic Marine have videos on  their items and, the presenters at least, did seem like they knew dinghy racing fairly well.

My ‘new’ (1974 built) Finn I purchased from  sailmaker in my neighborhood whom I’ll prolly get all extra bits and pieces from.

I’m  looking for new sources of dinghy gear (Sabots, Lasers and Finns) so maybe you can share some leads you have?  

 

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On 5/23/2020 at 4:38 PM, Left Shift said:

So glad we have Fisheries Supply out here.  They do a great job and support the local community all day long.

The other day I needed to replace a contaminated water tank in my 17 year-old, NZL built boat.  I had dim hopes that it wouldn't turn into a ridiculous remodeling project to get a new tank fitted.  Fisheries had the EXACT tank in stock, in their warehouse below the retail store.  One call downstairs, a bit of assistance picking stuff off the shelves for all the connection fittings and hoses and I walked out in 30 minutes for just a bit over $150 bucks.  Headed back to the boat, stuck it in and wondered what I was going to to with the rest of the day.  

Another reason I try to never buy on line.

Yay, Carl and his team.

 

+1

Dropped in there on my way to the Boat Show last year and on a lark asked if they had replacement pump bodies for the Raritan PHII (the one with the upgraded seal).  As it turned out, they had 2 in stock downstairs.  Immediately purchased (price was the same as Defender) plus bought some accessories for my Fein MultiMaster (they had a huge assortment of accessories for the Fein - more than I've seen anywhere else)

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3 hours ago, blunderfull said:

You can’t possibly know me or my buying habits, so I’ll let this pass w/o too long a pushback.

Truth is, all my boats, sails and gear have been bought locally.  However, two of my main sources closed in the last six months.   Not ready to throw my business to West Marine I tried some new “discounters.”
 

 I like the gear Brits make for my class so I went in on it.  I looked at pics of guys at regattas to see what’s new/popular, check reviews & prices, then order.   Rooster & Magic Marine have videos on  their items and, the presenters at least, did seem like they knew dinghy racing fairly well.

My ‘new’ (1974 built) Finn I purchased from  sailmaker in my neighborhood whom I’ll prolly get all extra bits and pieces from.

I’m  looking for new sources of dinghy gear (Sabots, Lasers and Finns) so maybe you can share some leads you have?  

 

If you can find what you want in a catalogue, have a local shop order it for you.  They win, you win and the world is a better place.

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1 hour ago, Left Shift said:

If you can find what you want in a catalogue, have a local shop order it for you.  They win, you win and the world is a better place.

That’s the catch - what local shop?  All gone.

West Marine will get me most anything but, even with the good crew they usually have in rigging, I get flack for shopping there. 
 

Heading up to ABYC and see what’s going on north of here.  Don’t want to drive to MDR but there must be an outfitter in the South Bay?

BTW:   The Rooster Pro Hiking pants (with battens) are flat out badass.   Best I ever had. Crazy tight fit and flex just right.

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21 hours ago, BlatantEcho said:

THIS is, the root of the reason the industry suffers. All the items you bought, are readily available at small independent dealers all around the country.
Instead of shopping at a business that employee sailors, or supports local events, or sponsors sailors - you bought from a discounter.

Last I checked, aside from Juan, there aren't any people at Mauri who are actually.. sailors.
And, they don't have inventory.

It's a mostly drop ship operation, staffed by computer SEO/SEM people.
Look at their *About Us * page.  Do you see the profiles of all the people like you saw at APS?
Do you see their sailing resumes, backgrounds, etc?

 

Nope.  You just bought what was cheapest, and you don't think about it anymore than that.
And, neither did most people.  So, they all saved some money, and watched all the businesses go away.
 

***********
It's not a 'New World' because APS went out of business mate.
It's a 'New World' because people don't take 10 seconds to support the stores that support the sport.

***********

There are dozens of other places you could have bought that stuff from, some of which deeply support sailing regionally, or at the state level.
But, you bought from a discounter, because... it was easier that supporting a company that actually is staffed with sailors and sailing enthusiasts who give back to the community.

Hi,

Not exactly accurate, there are several sailors inside our organization:

Partners: 4 out of 5 are sailors
Business Consultants: 2 out of 3 sailors
Managers:
Sailing Division Manager: Gonzalo Rios, a long time Laser sailor, ex-Opti
South America Regional Manager: Ricardo Fabini, former Snipe and ORC World Champion. 2019 SSL Particpatan (Star)
Customer Care: 2 die-hard sailors (Lightning, J24s, Snipe, Opti)
Main Graphic Designer: She is not a sailor but she is a heavy drinker, so I am assuming she qualifies as one.
A couple of sailmakers and rigger.

You are right, there are many of us that are E-marketers, Social Media and Community managers, we are geeks running computers and managing a network of e-commerce sites. When we started our online business in 2003, we always said, that no matter what we will never abandon our soul, that for as long as I am in charge, MAURIPRO Sailing would always be a sailing company running on the simple principle of providing the best tool for a sailor to find that elusive sailboat part. 

Good point about our "About Us" page, it sucks, it needs an urgent update to reflect who we really are. Thanks for pointing it out.

Looking forward to seeing you guys on-the-water.

Best,

Juan

  

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15 hours ago, blunderfull said:

That’s the catch - what local shop?  All gone.

West Marine will get me most anything but, even with the good crew they usually have in rigging, I get flack for shopping there. 
 

Heading up to ABYC and see what’s going on north of here.  Don’t want to drive to MDR but there must be an outfitter in the South Bay?

BTW:   The Rooster Pro Hiking pants (with battens) are flat out badass.   Best I ever had. Crazy tight fit and flex just right.

West Marine San Pedro (Don't bother) then West Marine Hermosa Beach Beach and then West Marine MDR are your options West/North of ABYC.

Background- I started Small Craft Advisories in 1987. It morphed into Sailing Pro Shop as we got a lot of call asking what the weather was supposed to be instead of people looking for boats and boat parts. The name change did the trick. By 1990 I had Sailing Pro Shop stores in Long Beach, Marina Del Rey and Hawaii.  We added Newport Beach in 1991.  Access to the water along with the cost of dry storage was putting the squeeze on the sport in general. An economic downturn in the early 1990s didn't help. By 1995 Every single small boat shop in Southern California had closed but us. We stuck it out until 1999 when we moved back up to Seal Beach (Near Long Beach) and then into some really nice and swanky digs right on the entrance to Alamitos Bay in Long Beach. The rent was reasonable compared to everything else around thanks to some long time personal connections. The economy was improving, the new location worked out very well and the business was doing pretty well. The sport however was still slowly winding down compared to the 1980s. By 2005 I had three kids, an ailing father and the grind of small margins  for almost 20 years had gotten to me. It was a really fun business and I got to sail with amazing crews and the fastest boats on the west coast but making the dots connect for the ROI I needed just did not seem like it would happen without some new blood and a healthy cash investment I just didn't have. I started the business with a partner and found out the hard way that the kind of ships that don't float are called "Partner-ships". I didn't want to go through that again.  The business was put up for sale and sold quickly in 2006.

At the end of the day I got the best business experience anyone could possibly hope for and an education on the way things really work as opposed to how my college professors said it "Should Work".

We had a pretty good mix of brands:

Laser & Laser II
420s
FJs
Capri
Catalina Yachts
Sabots
OPTIs
Hobie Cat
NACRA
Prindle
MX-Ray
F-18 Australia
Zodiac
Avon
Yamaha
Mariner

MUSTO
Henri LLoyd
Gill
Ronstan
Harken
Spinlock
Garhauer

All the top brands of cordage.

In theory we had pretty much everything to make the company work when we opened our doors in 1987.

But then the market shifted late in 1988. Layline, APS, Defender and others came in along with West Marine and started mail order discounting which we could compete with except that California had/has high sales tax which you didn't have to pay with an out of state vendor.  (Those rules are rapidly changing as well). A 10% advantage we just couldn't match and make money. We tried but even with doing fiberglass and gelcoat work and custom installations on smaller boats, there wasn't a lot left at the end of the day as insurance, hourly wages, utilities, workman's comp and all of the other 'incidentals" were eating away at the bottom line.

Kyle and APS was a great competitor. They hired good people and generated a catalog that rivaled LAYLINE which Walt had built into the standard back in the day.

The margins in the marine industry are small, the inventory turn is slow 1-4X annually if you are lucky. Those metrics just didn't work so again, while I loved the experience and met fantastic people along the way, it is a difficult business to actually make money at. Best of luck to Kyle in whatever his future holds.

Looking forward for us, our company (DryUV and DryArmour) are working on a new websites and have added almost 12,000 SKUs over the last 16 years.  Embroidery, screen printing and dye sublimation and have recently we added DTG printing as well. A big chunk of our business is now in the entertainment industry (Film and TV) but we still love doing events and teams in the sailing industry and appreciate every order.

Hats and Beanies
Jackets
Fleece
Hoodies
Polo Shirts
Button Down Shirts
Cotton and tech tee shirts and much, much more

We also have standard as well as custom face masks and gaiters for events, companies and teams.

 

 

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54 minutes ago, Juan Mauri said:

Hi,

Not exactly accurate, there are several sailors inside our organization:

Partners: 4 out of 5 are sailors
Business Consultants: 2 out of 3 sailors
Managers:
Sailing Division Manager: Gonzalo Rios, a long time Laser sailor, ex-Opti
South America Regional Manager: Ricardo Fabini, former Snipe and ORC World Champion. 2019 SSL Particpatan (Star)
Customer Care: 2 die-hard sailors (Lightning, J24s, Snipe, Opti)
Main Graphic Designer: She is not a sailor but she is a heavy drinker, so I am assuming she qualifies as one.
A couple of sailmakers and rigger.

You are right, there are many of us that are E-marketers, Social Media and Community managers, we are geeks running computers and managing a network of e-commerce sites. When we started our online business in 2003, we always said, that no matter what we will never abandon our soul, that for as long as I am in charge, MAURIPRO Sailing would always be a sailing company running on the simple principle of providing the best tool for a sailor to find that elusive sailboat part. 

Good point about our "About Us" page, it sucks, it needs an urgent update to reflect who we really are. Thanks for pointing it out.

Looking forward to seeing you guys on-the-water.

Best,

Juan

  

Your phone svc rep was on top of my orders.
 

She made quick work of my questions and deliveries went as expected.  Thx!

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On 5/21/2020 at 1:32 PM, Editor said:

oh fuck off trumptard. how's that bleach injection workin' for ya?

Fuck off you Liberal Douche

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On 5/22/2020 at 8:44 AM, Alex W said:

That was my experience when I visited.  I expected something like Fisheries Supply in Seattle (which has a room close to the size of Fawcett's that is sailing gear, line, and plumbing), but the sailing area was smaller than the Seattle West Marine.

I really liked APS.  This was 3 years ago when they had lots of sailing gear.  It felt like a small version of the Fisheries sailing room.

This thread just reminds me to support my local stores if I want them to stay in business.  I bet Fisheries does most of their business as a wholesaler/distributor and only makes a small amount from showroom sales.

That was something my dad taught me once I was an adult: If you find a store that provides what you need and does it well, support them. A few extra dollars here and there is worth helping to make sure they are still there when you need them again.

Being on the west coast, I used APS for hardware and line online.  It had the best selection of line I could find anywhere, and very good descriptions of each line's feel and characteristics, so it was easy to order without touching it first. I tend to taper my own halyards and do my own splices, but once I had them taper a halyard, and it was a thing of beauty. Their hardware selection was also extraordinary. Their prices almost always beat West Marine, too. When I could, I tried to wait for the annual rigging sales, but was happy to pay their regular price if I needed it soon. Other than a wetsuit and a PFD, I never used them for clothing, so they lost me as a customer when they made the switch to clothing only. It wasn't out of spite, I just didn't have any need for them anymore.

So far, I'm surviving on West Marine and Defender Marine, but it is not the same. It was obvious that APS understood our sport and cared. For those of you in Annapolis, I envy you the times that you could walk into their brick and mortar store.

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I had been buying supplies from APS for a decade and found that until recently, I got good advice and was very happy. Since then two things changed: The advice concerning line went downhill, and a SCOTUS decision allowed governments to force online shops to collect sales tax. The former is specific to APS, but the later can endanger any online shop since they now have to charge both sales tax and shipping. A sales clerk at Defender told me they had to spend a small fortune modifying their computer system to deal with the sales tax issue, and the extra cost hurt sales. I would think a speciality shop like a sailing store would need an online presence to have a big enough customer base to survive.

As for local shops being available for last minute "Crap I need xxx" purchases, I doubt there are enough of them to make a business of.

Despite the change in line advice, it disappointed me when APS switched to all apparel. They had a bunch of stuff I liked, and I think I did once buy a jacket from them but it was only because I noticed it on sale when I was buying something else. Regardless, I hate to see a small business fail, whatever the reason. Online or brick and mortar, the more shops we lose the worse off we all are. 

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On 5/24/2020 at 3:57 PM, BlatantEcho said:

THIS is, the root of the reason the industry suffers. All the items you bought, are readily available at small independent dealers all around the country.
Instead of shopping at a business that employee sailors, or supports local events, or sponsors sailors - you bought from a discounter.

Last I checked, aside from Juan, there aren't any people at Mauri who are actually.. sailors.
And, they don't have inventory.

It's a mostly drop ship operation, staffed by computer SEO/SEM people.
Look at their *About Us * page.  Do you see the profiles of all the people like you saw at APS?
Do you see their sailing resumes, backgrounds, etc?

 

Nope.  You just bought what was cheapest, and you don't think about it anymore than that.
And, neither did most people.  So, they all saved some money, and watched all the businesses go away.
 

***********
It's not a 'New World' because APS went out of business mate.
It's a 'New World' because people don't take 10 seconds to support the stores that support the sport.

***********

There are dozens of other places you could have bought that stuff from, some of which deeply support sailing regionally, or at the state level.
But, you bought from a discounter, because... it was easier that supporting a company that actually is staffed with sailors and sailing enthusiasts who give back to the community.

The above is true for almost all industries now. People price shop online and forget the service, experience, and personal attention you can get by a smaller business.

Sad. Time to wake up before all of these little gems are gone.

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8 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

If you do NOT live in Annapolis and bought from APS, weren't you killing your local shop?

What local shop? For example, I know of none in Virginia or Delaware that could compete, there is maybe 1 in NJ (small outfit, truck run business I believe), none in SC, none in GA. Even in Rhode Island the most comprehensive source of supplies is the West Marine in Newport, and the small shop at NEB. Yes, a lot of marine business' have headquarters in RI, but most don't have storefronts for retail sales.

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My "local" shop is West Marine. A true "local" shop is one hour away, and in the opposite direction from my boat, so about 2.5 hours from my boat, without traffic. 

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34 minutes ago, samc99us said:

What local shop? For example, I know of none in Virginia or Delaware that could compete, there is maybe 1 in NJ (small outfit, truck run business I believe), none in SC, none in GA. Even in Rhode Island the most comprehensive source of supplies is the West Marine in Newport, and the small shop at NEB. Yes, a lot of marine business' have headquarters in RI, but most don't have storefronts for retail sales.

Right. There is a local rigger and I have used them, but their line selection was very limited and they wanted to sell me what they had more than what I needed. It's under new management now, and I'm definitely giving them a second look. 

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2 hours ago, Shu said:

So far, I'm surviving on West Marine and Defender Marine, but it is not the same.

Fisheries Supply's website isn't as clear as APS in describing the types of line, but they have a much larger selection than Defender or West Marine.  So check them out too, especially if you like Samson or Robline sourced stuff (FS doesn't carry a lot of New England Ropes cordage).

I'm lucky to have them locally so I can feel the line in hand.

I liked the inexpensive Yale cover that APS sold, I've never seen that anywhere else.  It was just cheap polyester but good for backup halyards and other low use lines.  Maybe I can convince Fisheries that they should stock it.

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On 5/24/2020 at 6:05 PM, blunderfull said:

Rooster UK

 

I have a Rooster Bag, It was a trophy at a land sailing event. Royal (Brit talk) POS. Never been to their site. I buy Local

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39 minutes ago, Alex W said:

Fisheries Supply's website isn't as clear as APS in describing the types of line, but they have a much larger selection than Defender or West Marine.  So check them out too, especially if you like Samson or Robline sourced stuff (FS doesn't carry a lot of New England Ropes cordage).

I'm lucky to have them locally so I can feel the line in hand.

I liked the inexpensive Yale cover that APS sold, I've never seen that anywhere else.  It was just cheap polyester but good for backup halyards and other low use lines.  Maybe I can convince Fisheries that they should stock it.

You can also call them up and ask for someone in "Sailboat" where they really are knowledgeable about the stuff they sell.  Then they'll be glad to ship it to you.  

Walking through the Fisheries line racks let's you make good choices to fit your uses.  Walking through West Marine's line racks always makes me think I'm just looking at a selection of different colored rubber bands.

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3 hours ago, Alex W said:

Fisheries Supply's website isn't as clear as APS in describing the types of line, but they have a much larger selection than Defender or West Marine.  So check them out too, especially if you like Samson or Robline sourced stuff (FS doesn't carry a lot of New England Ropes cordage).

I'm lucky to have them locally so I can feel the line in hand.

I liked the inexpensive Yale cover that APS sold, I've never seen that anywhere else.  It was just cheap polyester but good for backup halyards and other low use lines.  Maybe I can convince Fisheries that they should stock it.

Thanks for the heads up Alex.  I've been in Fisheries Supply when I was in the area a few years ago. It was impressive.  I've used that Yale polyester cover also, and found it great for making a tapered line, particularly if the covered part was a minority of the length. Let us know if you are successful in convincing FS to carry it.

 

2 hours ago, Left Shift said:

You can also call them up and ask for someone in "Sailboat" where they really are knowledgeable about the stuff they sell.  Then they'll be glad to ship it to you.  

Walking through the Fisheries line racks let's you make good choices to fit your uses.  Walking through West Marine's line racks always makes me think I'm just looking at a selection of different colored rubber bands.

Yeah, I was looking for 5/32" (4mm) dyneema last weekend, and West Marine doesn't carry it in store or online.  If you look at the line strength, it's a huge jump from 3mm to 4mm and from 4mm to 5mm.  So, it's rather pathetic to have to choose between 3mm and 5mm. Fortunately, I found 100 feet of 4mm in my duffle bag. Doh!

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On 5/24/2020 at 7:02 PM, JimBowie said:

Matter of fact Blatant is that APS wasn't filling order properly and then not at all.  I tried ordering rigging done by them and it was a kluster-fck last time.  People stopped using them when they stopped being reliable supplier.  That simple.  Do I admire Jeff Bezos and Amazon?  Not necessarily, but if they can get me the good cheaply and reliably and Brand X homeboy store can't, I'll choose Big Box any day.  That's a fact.

I would be curious how much custom rigging you are able to do on Amazon? As for not getting orders properly filled that sounds like a isolated event tbh. Custom rigging is anything but easy to get correct and can very easily get messed up. I do not know the specifics with your order but I would bet any "kluster-fuck" was more so collecting information to make sure your order was done correctly. 

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1 hour ago, er111a said:

I would be curious how much custom rigging you are able to do on Amazon? As for not getting orders properly filled that sounds like a isolated event tbh. Custom rigging is anything but easy to get correct and can very easily get messed up. I do not know the specifics with your order but I would bet any "kluster-fuck" was more so collecting information to make sure your order was done correctly. 

Or they really did start having issues? Maybe the best rigging people saw what was coming and bailed out, leaving the socks and hats guy to try and get it right?

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55 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Or they really did start having issues? Maybe the best rigging people saw what was coming and bailed out, leaving the socks and hats guy to try and get it right?

Never had any problem with their rigging and don't know anyone else either, the only concern was that usually had a backlog, because they had the best selection of line and did the most business locally.  I heard some of their riggers went over to Bacons when they were laid off last year.

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On 5/24/2020 at 7:02 PM, JimBowie said:

Matter of fact Blatant is that APS wasn't filling order properly and then not at all.  I tried ordering rigging done by them and it was a kluster-fck last time.  People stopped using them when they stopped being reliable supplier.  That simple.  Do I admire Jeff Bezos and Amazon?  Not necessarily, but if they can get me the good cheaply and reliably and Brand X homeboy store can't, I'll choose Big Box any day.  That's a fact.

I ordered a new main halyard just before they stopped doing rigging. They did a nice job and got it on time. 

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On 5/26/2020 at 5:33 PM, Alex W said:

 

I liked the inexpensive Yale cover that APS sold, I've never seen that anywhere else.  It was just cheap polyester but good for backup halyards and other low use lines.  Maybe I can convince Fisheries that they should stock it.

You can get Yale cordage from Hamilton Marine, not sure they have covers though, and Bainbridge, sells to wholesalers...

Yale’s Poly cover is fantastic, but they aren’t really in the marine rope business anymore. 

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On 5/22/2020 at 2:30 PM, Ross said:

I grew up as a kid reading and circling in the APS catalog for Christmas.

I used to do that with the Sears Wishbook.... 

If you raced One Design, APS was turnkey.

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There is a right price and a right now price!

Hard not to save money on a planned purchase that you can price compare online but when you need it now, price doesn't matter!

Amazon has smashed those 2 things very close together, for other SKU types...

Amazon: The grim reaper of traditional retail!

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On 5/26/2020 at 3:08 PM, kent_island_sailor said:

If you do NOT live in Annapolis and bought from APS, weren't you killing your local shop?

local (national chains)  died on their own..  you can sell only so many fenders and cup holders to the power boaters in north texas...  

WM still around, but they only have one of something when you need 2...    oh, we can order that and have it up here next week !   might as well order online and have it shipped directly to my house and usually for a better price making up the cost of shipping.

i'll miss APS,  their line selection was decent and not 95% sta-set like WM,  

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On 5/26/2020 at 3:08 PM, kent_island_sailor said:

If you do NOT live in Annapolis and bought from APS, weren't you killing your local shop?

My local shop was non-existent unless you count one some 60 miles away.

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On 5/21/2020 at 5:48 PM, kent_island_sailor said:

Pretty much. Selling ANYTHING brick and mortar is always going to suck, your "customers" look at all your merchandise and then go buy it off Amazon or Ebay once they find what they like. Looked for any camera shops lately? APS kind of screwed up in a unique way though. They were about a 30 second walk from SSA and maybe 45 seconds from EYC and well within a 15-25 minute walk from AYC and a bunch of marinas. Fawcetts had long since moved out from downtown and West was also out of walking distance. They were THE place to go if you were in a hurry.

Fast forward to being a clothing shop. BFD :rolleyes: How often do you need clothes right this second before a race? All the various tourists have plenty of shops to choose from along Main Street, the tourist foot traffic over to the east end of Eastport is fairly minimal. I never thought this plan had any chance of success for in-store sales and selling clothes online puts you right up against numerous big players. I can't really see the Covid issues being relevant at all YET, how much tourist clothes buying goes on before Memorial Day?

 

You must be drunk when you walk around in Eastport as EYC is actually closer to APS than SSA is

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On 5/26/2020 at 4:36 PM, samc99us said:

What local shop? For example, I know of none in Virginia or Delaware that could compete, there is maybe 1 in NJ (small outfit, truck run business I believe), none in SC, none in GA. Even in Rhode Island the most comprehensive source of supplies is the West Marine in Newport, and the small shop at NEB. Yes, a lot of marine business' have headquarters in RI, but most don't have storefronts for retail sales.

RigPro (for Newport)

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On 5/21/2020 at 11:45 AM, Alaris said:

Writing was on the wall when they went to all apparel. Alienated a lot of customers who have now found other sources for what they need.

writing was on the wall when they went to that awful new website  several years ago. I could find anything on the old site (some friends on the college sailing team would have me put orders in for them), all but the most obscure items had details and images, and it was fast/responsive/laid out logically. They went to the new system and it was forever a mess. Slow, disorganized, and fucking useless for hardware. Oh well. Guess the only question now is.... Am i a medium or small for some goretex musto. If they have any left. Small musto salopetts, so probably small jacket i guess. 

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Have to agree with Mustang about the change in the web site. I wonder how Kyle, who must have been knowledgeable about these things, never saw the problem(s).

 

PS: Did anyone mention that APS used to sell many kinds of boats as well; they were a dealer for quite a few manufacturers (like Vanguard, and its successor with the terrible reputation). But one or two years ago, the racks where one could salivate over new sailing toys got empty. SAD...

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19 hours ago, Wavedancer II said:

Have to agree with Mustang about the change in the web site. I wonder how Kyle, who must have been knowledgeable about these things, never saw the problem(s).

 

PS: Did anyone mention that APS used to sell many kinds of boats as well; they were a dealer for quite a few manufacturers (like Vanguard, and its successor with the terrible reputation). But one or two years ago, the racks where one could salivate over new sailing toys got empty. SAD...

It is a little more complicated than that. 

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  • 1 month later...
6 hours ago, Raz'r said:

Sorry to see them go, and thanks for 70% off on a sweet offshore Musto jacket for the wife.

You are most welcome! You got a sweet deal! Most the Musto was gone before the 70% started.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 5/26/2020 at 5:33 PM, Alex W said:

I liked the inexpensive Yale cover that APS sold, I've never seen that anywhere else.  It was just cheap polyester but good for backup halyards and other low use lines.  Maybe I can convince Fisheries that they should stock it.

Not sure how helpful it is to you, but I found a rig shop in Maine that has the 3/8 cover on hand.

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2 minutes ago, mgs said:

Not sure how helpful it is to you, but I found a rig shop in Maine that has the 3/8 cover on hand.

Which shop?

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