Jump to content

I hate Yacht brokers


Recommended Posts

I bought a boat in January from Canada. I had in the contract, “delivery to the US”.  I get a bill from the delivery skipper. I told him the broker is responsible. The broker said that I was responsible for it so I showed him the purchase agreement that is signed by the seller and myself.  Broker offers to pay half. The delivery bill was over twice the original price because the broker didn’t know how to get a boat across the border and the delivery skipper had to turn back. So instead of one day it was two days and a week of moorage. I don’t want the delivery skipper to get screwed but I don’t want to get screwed either. I sent a message to the skipper explaining my position. What else should i do? At least I got a cool boat.  Olson 911

Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Huggy Bear Brown said:

How did you end up with an invoice?  The contract for delivery should have been made by the previous owner.

I'd think the other way around, unless it's a new boat. A used boat sale is "where it is" and it's on the new owner to bring it back to where they want it.

The only time I sold a boat to a Canadian it was his issue to take it back to the great white north, and I've had to move every boat I bought to where I wanted it.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

So if I understand this.
 

You and the previous owner agrees that the broker will pay for the delivery without asking him? 

the delivery skipper delivers the boat COD?

the broker agrees to pay half of the delivery? 

no set price for the delivery? But it costs double?

and this happened in the USA?

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

The way it was explained to me was that I couldn’t bring the boat across the border. It had to be a delivery skipper from Canada. I don’t know if that is true or not. I wrote in the purchase agreement that delivery across the border was included in my offer. The previous owner signed it. I don’t know what the old owner and the broker had figured out. I just figured that they read the purchase agreement. 

  • Like 1
  • Downvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, George Hackett said:

So if I understand this.
 

You and the previous owner agrees that the broker will pay for the delivery without asking him? 

the delivery skipper delivers the boat COD?

the broker agrees to pay half of the delivery? 

no set price for the delivery? But it costs double?

and this happened in the USA?

 

I see what you just did there.

Link to post
Share on other sites

So you just slipped it into the S&P agreement, did you discuss with the broker or the old owner the expectations of such?

Sounds like you are trying to be cute and then piling on the broker who appears to have been oblivious to the clause or the expectation.

Buyers are Liars, Sellers are arseholes and never trust a broker is an oft repeated adage, but it does sound like you are being at the very least an arsehole.

 

Some brokers are dubious but many are diligent and often work long and hard between paychecks I am sure that many brokers would hate you as a client.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Navig8tor said:

So you just slipped it into the S&P agreement, did you discuss with the broker or the old owner the expectations of such?

Sounds like you are trying to be cute and then piling on the broker who appears to have been oblivious to the clause or the expectation.

Buyers are Liars, Sellers are arseholes and never trust a broker is an oft repeated adage, but it does sound like you are being at the very least an arsehole.

 

Some brokers are dubious but many are diligent and often work long and hard between paychecks I am sure that many brokers would hate you as a client.

They signed it. That’s an acceptance. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, alphafb552 said:

According to the OP, only the original owner signed it, not the broker.

How’d the offer get to the original owner to be accepted ....... 

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, 108 said:

The broker said that I was responsible for it so I showed him the purchase agreement that is signed by the seller and myself.  Broker offers to pay half.

It appears the broker was not included in the "they" and yet he offers to contribute?

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

So the owner signs the offer and you Hate Yacht Brokers because the owner is not paying for what the owner accepted as part of the offer?

Yup...you should have discussed the delivery location with the owner and the broker as a courtesy.

Forgetting all that.  Give the captain half.  Geez.  

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, 108 said:

I bought a boat in January from Canada. I had in the contract, “delivery to the US”.  I get a bill from the delivery skipper. I told him the broker is responsible. The broker said that I was responsible for it so I showed him the purchase agreement that is signed by the seller and myself.  Broker offers to pay half. The delivery bill was over twice the original price because the broker didn’t know how to get a boat across the border and the delivery skipper had to turn back. So instead of one day it was two days and a week of moorage. I don’t want the delivery skipper to get screwed but I don’t want to get screwed either. I sent a message to the skipper explaining my position. What else should i do? At least I got a cool boat.  Olson 911

You paid for a boat delivered to the USA

How it gets there isn’t your problem or cost

The delivery skipper needs to chase the broker/previous owner for his payment (if you pay him half so you feel better, what is stopping him from double dipping when he seeks payment from the party that hired him)

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, sail69 said:

So the owner signs the offer and you Hate Yacht Brokers because the owner is not paying for what the owner accepted as part of the offer?

Yup...you should have discussed the delivery location with the owner and the broker as a courtesy.

Forgetting all that.  Give the captain half.  Geez.  

 

Broker should have reviewed the offer & acted in the interests of the seller who appointed him to sell. Sounds like he didn’t tell the seller about the delivery or he likely wouldn’t be putting his hand in his own pocket. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, SCANAS said:

Broker should have reviewed the offer & acted in the interests of the seller who appointed him to sell. Sounds like he didn’t tell the seller about the delivery or he likely wouldn’t be putting his hand in his own pocket. 

Think you may be onto what has actually transpired here SCANAS, that said 108 sounds like he should have clearly communicated the  condition and avoided what has obviously decended into a he said/ he said clusterfuck

And no delivery skipper I know would have pushed of the dock without knowing who was paying  how and when.

Link to post
Share on other sites

To the OP, this doesn't really make sense - at least to me.

You are in the PNW, I am assuming you bought a boat in BC.  You have the right to buy the boat and sail it into the US (I'll get back to that in a minute) and go through import procedures with your customs authority.  I am in Canada and bought our last boat in the US.  I did exactly this.  You can pre-clear in advance, so the import is essentially done except for the physical inspection.

Your challenge right now is that the border is closed due to Covid.  Like others, you are going to have to wait until the point when the border opens.

In terms of expecting the broker to pay for a delivery skipper on a $20-30K boat, that's crazy.  He or she wouldn't have a commission even close to the delivery cost.  That makes no sense.  

Link to post
Share on other sites

Fuck that! Post the contract where some broker is dumb enough to sign a purchase agreement with paid delivery guaranteed by the broker. 
 

I smell a heap of bullshit here. 
 

I would at least take the half from the broker...since he already owns the boat..

Link to post
Share on other sites

I am not a lawyer, but it sounds like Mr. @108 managed to somehow write a term into the contract that the seller, broker AND delivery captain all overlooked. Bravo!

... only problem is they have your money AND your boat, and the boat's in Canada so you can't even go get it yourself.

So unless the delivery captain's fee costs more than hiring a Canadian attorney and not seeing your boat until next summer... you're going to need to pay up. And I doubt the captain will take credit this time. Those marina fees are adding up too...

This is a good lesson in the fact that contracts don't mean shit if you don't have the property in-hand and/or the means to enforce that contract.  If you'd wanted to ensure delivery as part of the deal, you needed to escrow the balance on delivery. Though that would have also drawn their attention to that contract term, wouldn't it...

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

From reading the OP, I'm pretty sure the seller has the money from the agreed upon sale, the broker has their commission, the new owner has the boat, and the delivery skipper is the only one currently in the lurch. 

If the signed contract says that delivery to the US is part of the agreed upon price, my understanding is the delivery skipper should be knocking on the PO's door for payment. Since it ended up costing twice as much, maybe the nice thing to do would be to split the difference, but I don't see any obligation to do so. If the broker and PO didn't read it properly before they agreed to the sale terms, that is really on them. unless it was written in really small print...  Or otherwise buried in the terms.

Why the delivery skipper didn't get a clear understanding on payment before they left the dock, who knows, but that doesn't seem like a good way to run a successful business. 

All the same, congrats on the Olson 911. They are great boats. 

 

 

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Cristoforo said:

This is why one  shouldn't come to a left wing boat forum for legal advice and rants.   

@Cristoforo and @Slick470 Yeah my bad & I was just revising my post, I didn't realize this all happened in January and he already has the boat in-hand.

That said... I think that @108  is perhaps conflating two separate issues.

Unless the delivery captain was a party to original sales agreement, then whoever actually selected and made the delivery arrangements (i.e. hired him) is the one that he should seek payment from. If Mr @108 hired the guy, then he needs to pay up and seek compensation from the seller (good luck with that, per the sales agreement. But that's separate from the contract with the captain.

I wonder if what really happened was that the seller or broker got some friend to agree for a short delivery for cash, and then when it took longer and cost twice as much (b/c of getting turned around at the border, etc...) they told him that the buyer would pay the difference.

In any case, the delivery captain has learned a valuable lesson.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Should've used a buyer's broker to represent you. It's free to you (take our cut from the listing broker's) and their job is to check over contracts and protect your interests. Tough spot now with the delivery tab - unless it's a large enough amount to be worth litigating over, best of luck.

Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, Slick470 said:

From reading the OP, I'm pretty sure the seller has the money from the agreed upon sale, the broker has their commission, the new owner has the boat, and the delivery skipper is the only one currently in the lurch. 

As strange as this transaction is, the various governments may be left in the same lurch. Has the boat actually been imported or is it just 'visiting?' Is the duty paid? 

An unpaid delivery captain might be sufficiently unhappy to make a call to the new state of residence and suggest a sales tax follow-up investigation.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Starboard!! said:

I am not a lawyer, but it sounds like Mr. @108 managed to somehow write a term into the contract that the seller, broker AND delivery captain all overlooked. Bravo!

... only problem is they have your money AND your boat, and the boat's in Canada so you can't even go get it yourself.

So unless the delivery captain's fee costs more than hiring a Canadian attorney and not seeing your boat until next summer... you're going to need to pay up. And I doubt the captain will take credit this time. Those marina fees are adding up too...

This is a good lesson in the fact that contracts don't mean shit if you don't have the property in-hand and/or the means to enforce that contract.  If you'd wanted to ensure delivery as part of the deal, you needed to escrow the balance on delivery. Though that would have also drawn their attention to that contract term, wouldn't it...

Sounds like the boat was deliverered & he hasn’t paid. Checkmate buyer. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, SCANAS said:

Sounds like the boat was deliverered & he hasn’t paid. Checkmate buyer. 

I wouldn't ever want to make boat enemies. Too many opportunities for someone to drop by the dock and slip the lines or open a seacock.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Starboard!! said:

I am not a lawyer, but it sounds like Mr. @108 managed to somehow write a term into the contract that the seller, broker AND delivery captain all overlooked. Bravo!

... only problem is they have your money AND your boat, and the boat's in Canada so you can't even go get it yourself.

So unless the delivery captain's fee costs more than hiring a Canadian attorney and not seeing your boat until next summer... you're going to need to pay up. And I doubt the captain will take credit this time. Those marina fees are adding up too...

This is a good lesson in the fact that contracts don't mean shit if you don't have the property in-hand and/or the means to enforce that contract.  If you'd wanted to ensure delivery as part of the deal, you needed to escrow the balance on delivery. Though that would have also drawn their attention to that contract term, wouldn't it...

Word

Link to post
Share on other sites

If this was under English law, then responsibility would depend on how the purchase agreement was produced. OP states that 'I wrote in the purchase agreement that delivery across the border was included in my offer'.

Now, if he prepared the purchase agreement and sent it to the broker and PO for review and signing, then yes, responsibility would lie with the PO for paying the delivery skipper.

However, if (as would normally be the case, at least in my experience) the broker provided a purchase agreement to the OP, the OP added a clause about delivery and returned that to the broker without highlighting that he'd made the change then generally arbitration panel or a court would decide that the 'modified' agreement was void ans that original wording of the purchase agreement applied. 

Obviously US / Canadian law is different, but I'd be surprised if the above didn't apply - certainly has in every country I've worked in.

So come on OP, tell us how you wrote the clause into the purchase agreement.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

@Jackett  In either case though, the issue of the delivery captain getting stiffed is separate from the sales agreement.

That liability lies with whoever actually hired him.  The OP has been conspicuously silent on this matter, which makes me think that both sides were in communication with the skipper.

In which case, the broker's offer to pay half seems reasonable.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Starboard!! said:

@Jackett  In either case though, the issue of the delivery captain getting stiffed is separate from the sales agreement.

That liability lies with whoever actually hired him.  The OP has been conspicuously silent on this matter, which makes me think that both sides were in communication with the skipper.

In which case, the broker's offer to pay half seems reasonable.

Agreed - whoever hired the skipper pays him. My comments where in regards to whether on not the party who hired him then has any grounds on which to claim the cost back from the other party. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

The agreement between buyer and sell seems clear.

But, who engaged the delivery skipper? The person who engaged the skipper owes the skipper his fee. PERIOD.

After that person pays the skipper, that person, if not the seller can then go after the seller for reimbursement. But the buy sell agreement is separate from the delivery engagement agreement. The skipper is not bound by the buy sell agreement unless he was a part of it, which does not seem to be the case.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

You get what you pay for when it comes to legal advice on a sailing forum. You’re not my client so while I have an opinion on this I am not going to opine on it. I recommend you talk to an attorney to at least get a consultation.

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, Alaris said:

You get what you pay for when it comes to legal advice on a sailing forum. You’re not my client so while I have an opinion on this I am not going to opine on it. I recommend you talk to an attorney to at least get a consultation.

Do you actually practice law?  You expect this guy to go pay a lawyer to fight over 2 day's captain time?  Or you expect some person to give him free in person useful legal advice for a yacht purchase/contract?  Both ideas are ridiculous.

 

My reading of the OP is that buyer and seller had a contact for a boat delivered to US.  Giving money to the delivery skipper is charity.  The broker offering to pay half tells me that he thinks he's liable (and he's right imo).

Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, eastern motors said:

Do you actually practice law?  You expect this guy to go pay a lawyer to fight over 2 day's captain time?  Or you expect some person to give him free in person useful legal advice for a yacht purchase/contract?  Both ideas are ridiculous.

 

My reading of the OP is that buyer and seller had a contact for a boat delivered to US.  Giving money to the delivery skipper is charity.  The broker offering to pay half tells me that he thinks he's liable (and he's right imo).

Yes, I do, and I would not give out legal advice over the internet, free or otherwise. There are ethical as well as common sense reasons for this.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

In order to keep this thread even marginally interesting would you post the broker's GF tits?  They're bound to be young and firm giving the shafting he gave ya mate.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Purchase agreement should have delivery location in it. Is it the CAN or US location?

 

How much could 2 days of delivery skipper cost... Even the most expensive cannot be more than $500 per day.. The broker is not making a lot of money on this transaction. Take his offer and be happy. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Somethings not adding up with the OP.....  He states a broker is involved.  Brokers have standard boilerplate purchase agreements.  I pulled ours out to take a look at it.....any modifications to the purchase were done via an addendum to the agreement.  If the buyer and seller agree to something outside the boilerplate, the broker would have that listed in the addendum.  In addition, we also had an Acceptance of Vessel document which stated any new contingencies of acceptance, which we had as a result of the survey.  The agreement is between the buyer and seller, why is the broker offering to pay half?  He has no liability.....  and why is the OP blaming the broker??  Somethings bullshit....

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I drafted a legal document to myself without Clean's help, that clearly states that Scot is to pay me $10 for every witless comment I post to this forum.  

Why the heck have I not been paid yet?  I mailed the contract to myself years ago.

 

 

Sounds like the buyer and seller made a contract without the broker at some point, and agreed that the broker would pay.

The reality is that we are probably getting 20% of the whole story.

 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, Sail4beer said:

Where’s the sock of the day? 
 

Yo, 108, is that your IQ? Post the contract or tits already!

Not everyone is out to be an asshole.  I think the OP found a boat he liked, it happened to be in another country, and he is now navigating an unforeseen situation that came up well after the sale. Hopefully he'll get something useful out of asking an opinion here. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Sail4beer said:

Where’s the sock of the day? 
 

Yo, 108, is that your IQ? Post the contract or tits already!

You do realize that 108 is above average that is defined (and forced each year) to be 100.

Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, Slick470 said:

Hopefully he'll get something useful out of asking an opinion here. 

I’m having spars and other gear delivered across the border in a couple of weeks. We all know what’s in the well read contract so there should be no confusion. I wish he would post a redacted copy of the agreement here, don’t care  about mammary glands so much... 

1 minute ago, Cal20sailor said:

You do realize that 108 is above average that is defined (and forced each year) to be 100.

I guess you are right. He did buy a nice solid Olsen 911!

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, 108 said:

I wrote in the purchase agreement that delivery across the border was included in my offer. The previous owner signed it. I don’t know what the old owner and the broker had figured out. I just figured that they read the purchase agreement. 

So why is this the broker's issue and not the seller's?

The seller agreed to the delivery and signed the document, not the broker. 

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

If the cost of delivery to the USA was a genuine condition of sale, liability for delivery payment is with the seller, no? The broker's offer to pay half is either very generous, or an admission of...hmmm, something.

Would love to hear the previous owner's and broker's side of this story.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Delivery skipper needs to eat half his bill, he never should have left the dock without making sure the proper paperwork had been done. 

The broker's already willing to pay half because he missed taking the fee out of the owner's final payoff.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I know several very reputable yacht brokers in the PNW.  It is quite possible that the broker in this case is one of them.

I suggest that 108 provide full details to back up his claim to justify his "hatred" - of not just this particular broker but all brokers in general - or ask that this thread be removed.  

  

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, See Level said:

Delivery skipper needs to eat half his bill, he never should have left the dock without making sure the proper paperwork had been done.

Right on.

What kind of crappy delivery skipper was he, not diligently reviewing the purchase agreement (which had nothing to do with him) to ensure that its contents were communicated to, and fully understood by, both parties to the sale, as well as the broker? :P

3 hours ago, Left Shift said:

I suggest that 108 provide full details to back up his claim to justify his "hatred" - of not just this particular broker but all brokers in general - or ask that this thread be removed. 

+1.

The OP has appeared out of nowhere, provided incomplete and one-sided information, and unfairly smeared all brokers.

Assuming that any of this shitshow actually happened (I suspect a troll), the OP should take it offline and try to negotiate some mutually-acceptable resolution with the seller and broker.

As Bowchow has noted, the amounts involved are small so working things out amicably shouldn’t be all that difficult. However, if he wants to play hardball the OP should privately consult a lawyer so that he can get some reliable advice based on actual evidence ... which is more than this thread can hope to accomplish.

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

I have bought several boats over the years both on my own account and on behalf of friends (and sold a few also) some costing considerably more than the boat in question. The broker acts for the seller however i have never found any cause to "not like" a broker, never mind "hate" a broker. I have also sold boats on my own account or for friends, most recently a Cookson 50 and i can assure you that in most cases a broker more than earns their corn. OK sometimes they drop lucky and list a boat yesterday and sell it tomorrow but in other cases their client's expectations need to be managed far more than any potential purchasers wishes.

They usually charge a flat fee so it is in their interests for the sale to go as smoothly as possible, the easiest way for that to happen is to be completely open and not hide anything that may stall or lose the sale and as we all know reputation is everything because it is a competitive market place.

If someone 'sneaks in' a condition on a purchase contract and then is unhappy when that condition is not met then hell mend them, serves them right. It is for dirty tricks like that most brokers prefer to use a standard sales/purchase contract. 

For the avoidance of doubt, i have bought/sold over a dozen boats over the years and never had any cause to be unhappy with a broker involved in either direction.

Just sayin'

SS

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Left Shift said:

 

I suggest that 108 provide full details to back up his claim to justify his "hatred" - of not just this particular broker but all brokers in general - or ask that this thread be removed.  

  

We should keep the thread and lose 108.

 

Seems we already have...

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Svanen said:

Right on.

What kind of crappy delivery skipper was he, not diligently reviewing the purchase agreement (which had nothing to do with him) to ensure that its contents were communicated to, and fully understood by, both parties to the sale, as well as the broker? :P

Not what I was talking about. 

Was there a Canadian registration on board? How about a notorized Bill of Sale?

OP said skipper had to go back because broker didn't understand paperwork to get across border.

 Neither did "professional delivery skipper" I guess.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/29/2020 at 9:12 AM, Cristoforo said:

Good thing you aren't a lawyer because you couldn't even get the facts in the first post correct.

This is why one  shouldn't come to a left wing boat forum for legal advice and rants.   

Wow, politicize everything do you?

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

All conjecture is bull spit without seeing the signed contract.  Given that the OP seems to have vanished I am wondering if he was just goofing with a bogus post.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/29/2020 at 3:27 PM, Cal20sailor said:

You do realize that 108 is above average that is defined (and forced each year) to be 100.

Currently, on a worldwide basis the U.S. is only 98 - and declining.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/29/2020 at 11:27 PM, Cal20sailor said:

You do realize that 108 is above average that is defined (and forced each year) to be 100.

Do they tweak the numbers to try and account for Trump voters and not drag the US average down? :P

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, crankcall said:

why shut it, broker or seller or delivery skipper have not been outed , its just all inetersting conjecture right now and sport

Because leaving it stand gets the Buyer's very, very likely undeserved message about yacht brokers posted for all to read and absorb.  Why should that (very, very likely) unjustified message get to stand in bold among the thread titles?  

Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

Because leaving it stand gets the Buyer's very, very likely undeserved message about yacht brokers posted for all to read and absorb.  Why should that (very, very likely) unjustified message get to stand in bold among the thread titles?  

I agree, sounds like a threat. Might as well be a personal attack. While it's up though a good opportunity for a roast of the guy who started the thread. 

Any departure from a standard contract, with the sale of a used boat is suspect. Should be scrutinized by both parties. If there is a dispute after signing, pain should be shared by the buyer, and seller. Leave the broker, and the delivery guy out of it. 

Any other settlement is bull****. Period. 

To short the delivery guy is bad form.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Left Shift said:

Because leaving it stand gets the Buyer's very, very likely undeserved message about yacht brokers posted for all to read and absorb.  Why should that (very, very likely) unjustified message get to stand in bold among the thread titles?  

Can you fill in the bits that justify why it should be deleted?

Or perhaps provide an alternative scenario with some “made up details” that we can discuss until the OP returns

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Left Shift said:

Proving that the PNW sailing community is a small world, I now know a bit more about all of this.  

This thread should be closed.  

Scot, shut it down.

Now that just makes it sound MORE interesting.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

Something is definitely missing here.  I made an offer on a boat with a contingency that the delivery location was going to be at a different port from where the boat was currently.  We used a standard sales agreement from my broker where the delivery location is spelled out.  It was clear to the seller and to me.  The seller wasn't interested in that contingency so the deal never went through but we had discussed holding some money in escrow to cover the delivery.  It was a bit sticky as the boat was being exported and I don't remember the exact specifics of how the transfer of ownership was going to work but the brokers had it figured out and a plan in place to protect the both the buyer and seller as much as possible while still fulfilling the paperwork requirements to get the boat cleared to export/import.   

Either way, if delivery were part of the deal, than there would have been some lengthy discussions on how that would work.  The story presented certainly makes it sound like it was not made clear in the sales agreement and no discussions took place addressing the transfer of ownership, import paperwork, whose insurance is covering the delivery, escrow of funds, final acceptance of vessel, etc....  I just don't see how this could have moved forward without these discussions if the deal was truly contingent on taking delivery in a different port.  I think it also makes a good argument for having a buyer's broker.  Mine was really good and making sure we moved slowly and methodically discussing the potential pitfalls along the way.  Perhaps a broker would not be willing to get involved on a low dollar transaction but if possible, it is well worth it to engage one on your behalf.  My experience with brokers was all around pretty positive so I hate to see such negative posts without all the facts presented.  My broker definitely worked to earn his 2.5% share of the commission.  

 

T

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/30/2020 at 1:12 PM, Left Shift said:

I know several very reputable yacht brokers in the PNW.  It is quite possible that the broker in this case is one of them.

I suggest that 108 provide full details to back up his claim to justify his "hatred" - of not just this particular broker but all brokers in general - or ask that this thread be removed.  

  

Fat chance Lefty!

I happened to follow some link and ended up wayward on the front page:

https://sailinganarchy.com/2020/05/28/i-hate-brokers/

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Front page? I guess this escalated. 

Sure, the thread title is probably a bit much. However, it's really the timing of all this that doesn't make sense to me. If the boat was purchased back in January, and let's assume it was delivered within a month, so February. It's now end of May. So OP has had his new to him boat for what at least 4 months? If I were to get a bill 4 months later for something I thought was done and done and then the broker offered to "split it with me" I'd probably be kind of pissed too. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Sooo many ways and scenarios for folks to justifiably (and not) get offended by this transaction.  @Slick470 is right,  @T sailor is right... heck almost everyone is right from some perspective.

Except shutting down this thread. That would be strange.

Without more facts, we can speculate out many tendrils of what happened/what should have happened / what will happen.  And almost certainly 100% wrong. 

My vote is crap contract, lazy/inept broker

Excited seller

Excited buyer

Hungry delivery captain

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm acquainted with the broker in this incident.

Let's just say that 108 is NOT the buyers IQ. ;)

And if it isn't, his name should be Karen.

Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Currently, on a worldwide basis the U.S. is only 98 - and declining.

Do you not realize how many of your posts bash the U.S. in one way or another?

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, hobot said:

Do you not realize how many of your posts bash the U.S. in one way or another?

We should be able to take criticism to heart and determine whether it is legitimate.  And then we should set our course.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, hasher said:

We should be able to take criticism to heart and determine whether it is legitimate.  And then we should set our course.

I think most of us are capable of ignoring his hate for the US long enough to respect he’s mocking a single individual and standing up for a respectable broker. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/29/2020 at 6:12 PM, Left Shift said:

I know several very reputable yacht brokers in the PNW.  It is quite possible that the broker in this case is one of them.

I suggest that 108 provide full details to back up his claim to justify his "hatred" - of not just this particular broker but all brokers in general - or ask that this thread be removed.  

  

I know of a couple not so reputable ones that would play games like this knowingly.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, hobot said:

Do you not realize how many of your posts bash the U.S. in one way or another?

Yep.

I only bash the bad stuff because I wish for the States to be all it can be.

Believe it or not I have always been a big fan of the States. Seeing what is going on there is like seeing a brother getting strung out on crack.

I also praise the States when the right subject comes up.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Monkey said:

I think most of us are capable of ignoring his hate for the US long enough to respect he’s mocking a single individual and standing up for a respectable broker. 

Corrected.

Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, Cristoforo said:

Sloopy does nothing but bash the US. One wonders why he is so fixated on it. Anyway it’s nice to be mentioned.  On a global basis nobody  gives a shit about Canada. Anywhere. Granted they have some nice scenery and friendly people in some places. Sloopy is a very poor Canuck  representative and has some deep unresolved emotional issues.  I’m sure his fellow patriots would wish he would quiet himself.  But he can’t. . Of course he will now post and retort the opposite,, which only means he hasn’t accepted the first step in the process. Is there anyone near him that can reach out and  help him?  He’s trying to fill the massive vacuum (and it is massive)  of self righteous pontification and illegitimate perceived moral high ground of BJPorter, who’s time zone opens a small portal of opportunity for others  to spew  obnoxious.  fake, political jabs. 

But he is merely the Howard Cosell of SA    A confused arrogant little twat. trying in a mid life crisis to gain the attention his own mother never gave him, before he rots and escapes this mortal existence. Alas the sands of time are running out on him and he has much work to do. Hence his desperate and frantic  post count. 

Nobody with at least one single true friend, or a modicum of value to offer a community, would or could behave like  Sloopy in front of a computer. Let us pray for Sloopy. 

Dang, I'd pluck those bunched up panties loose before the chaffing gets any worse. 

Back to the OP ... a reputable broker, a reputable delivery skipper, a transaction handled by a reputable US agency, but a cross-border transfer of a luxury item goes a little off and costs a little bit more than predicted, some concessions are made, but ... the OP/buyer decides that he "Hates Yacht Brokers" and gets his panties in a bunch too.  

Maybe panty un-bunching could be a growing industry.  Maybe Lyft could take it on.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Windward said:

Sooo many ways and scenarios for folks to justifiably (and not) get offended by this transaction.  @Slick470 is right,  @T sailor is right... heck almost everyone is right from some perspective.

Except shutting down this thread. That would be strange.

Without more facts, we can speculate out many tendrils of what happened/what should have happened / what will happen.  And almost certainly 100% wrong. 

My vote is crap contract, lazy/inept broker

Excited seller

Excited buyer

Hungry delivery captain

My vote is internet bullshit from OP...

A copy of the relevant section of sale and purchase agreement would be a good start, maybe a copy of the delivery invoice....otherwise we are all pontificating about hot air and have managed to do it for almost 100 posts

(must be c-19 cabin fever)

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/29/2020 at 1:09 PM, Bowchow said:

Purchase agreement should have delivery location in it. Is it the CAN or US location?

 

How much could 2 days of delivery skipper cost... Even the most expensive cannot be more than $500 per day.. The broker is not making a lot of money on this transaction. Take his offer and be happy. 

BTW, the delivery was on the order of 50 NM.

Link to post
Share on other sites

This sounds like that story of that Russian man who was offered a credit card by his bank. He removed the spending limit, monthly payments, and changed the interest rate to zero and sent it back to the banker. The banker signed it without reading the documents and when the bank discovered the mistake, they took the man to court and lost. It was the bank's fault for not reading the contract, but it was an underhanded thing to do by the Russian. I'm willing to bet a fair chunk of change that this particular broker won't leave a document unread again.

 

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2013/08/14/man-who-outwitted-bank-ends-700k-lawsuit-a26770

Link to post
Share on other sites

Am working on a purchase with a broker I've known for decades. Retained him as a buyer's broker and he's saved me five figures. I would have bought boats which would have been dogs or worse. Advised me well on the boat I am buying and he negotiated a purchase price well below what my opening bid for the boat would have been. I plan to pay him a gratuity because he saved me many many multiples of the commission.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Left Shift said:

BTW, the delivery was on the order of 50 NM.

I did that yesterday for free.  Friend of a friend bought a boat and wasn't comfortable bringing it home by himself.  However, I have also been paid several hundred dollars for the same distance.  I would expect a professional delivery captain to charge significantly more.  $500 should be in the ballpark if it could be done in one day.  Crossing the international boundary and/or going over one day would be quite a bit more than that.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites