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History will judge the complicit


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A long but important essay by Anne Applebaum. If you've got some time on your hands, I highly recommend it.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/07/trumps-collaborators/612250/

Excerpt -

To the american reader, references to Vichy France, East Germany, fascists, and Communists may seem over-the-top, even ludicrous. But dig a little deeper, and the analogy makes sense. The point is not to compare Trump to Hitler or Stalin; the point is to compare the experiences of high-ranking members of the American Republican Party, especially those who work most closely with the White House, to the experiences of Frenchmen in 1940, or of East Germans in 1945, or of Czesław Miłosz in 1947. These are experiences of people who are forced to accept an alien ideology or a set of values that are in sharp conflict with their own.

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2 hours ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

You can't expect the Righties here to read that essay. It has a lot of words, way too many words, and some of the words have more than three syllables.

True, but chances are they wouldn’t read a one paragraph post with a title like that anyway. 

 

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5 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Time to rename the Elk with a more descriptive moniker; the collaborators. Or maybe just “the Vichy”

I like Vichyssoise....... Hot or chilled....

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Thanks! This is indeed a long but very interesting piece to read.

With the broad media (of any kind) coverage of Trump's mad house one is inclined to add another "quality" to the collaborators: Ignorance.

The collaborators should and could know better; ignoring the facts, the lies and all other manipulative BS from Trump makes them just as guilty as the madman in charge.

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4 hours ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

You can't expect the Righties here to read that essay. It has a lot of words, way too many words, and some of the words have more than three syllables.

Some of them have been quite open about their aversion to reading things.

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Here’s another clip that leads into the bit I quoted above. Lindsey Graham being the example -

 

Graham said he voted for the independent candidate Evan McMullin.

But Trump did become president, and so the two men’s convictions were put to the test.

A glance at their biographies would not have led many to predict what happened next. On paper, Graham would have seemed, in 2016, like the man with deeper ties to the military, to the rule of law, and to an old-fashioned idea of American patriotism and American responsibility in the world. Romney, by contrast, with his shifts between the center and the right, with his multiple careers in business and politics, would have seemed less deeply attached to those same old-fashioned patriotic ideals. Most of us register soldiers as loyal patriots, and management consultants as self-interested. We assume people from small towns in South Carolina are more likely to resist political pressure than people who have lived in many places. Intuitively, we think that loyalty to a particular place implies loyalty to a set of values.

But in this case the clichés were wrong. It was Graham who made excuses for Trump’s abuse of power. It was Graham—a JAG Corps lawyer—who downplayed the evidence that the president had attempted to manipulate foreign courts and blackmail a foreign leader into launching a phony investigation into a political rival. It was Graham who abandoned his own stated support for bipartisanship and instead pushed for a hyperpartisan Senate Judiciary Committee investigation into former Vice President Joe Biden’s son. It was Graham who played golf with Trump, who made excuses for him on television, who supported the president even as he slowly destroyed the American alliances—with Europeans, with the Kurds—that Graham had defended all his life. By contrast, it was Romney who, in February, became the only Republican senator to break ranks with his colleagues, voting to impeach the president. “Corrupting an election to keep oneself in office,” he said, is “perhaps the most abusive and destructive violation of one’s oath of office that I can imagine.”

One man proved willing to betray ideas and ideals that he had once stood for. The other refused. Why?

 

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8 hours ago, Grog said:

With the broad media (of any kind) coverage of Trump's mad house one is inclined to add another "quality" to the collaborators: Ignorance.

ADD?

Ignorance is the most fundamental component to the elk and to the shitstains election.

Closely followed by stupidity.

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In a bombshell discovery that should in a rational world change everything, it seems two of the officers charged with the murder of George Floyd had been on the job for less than a week, and Chauvin was their training officer.

Via Blue Lives Matter:

An attorney for one of the officers charged in the death of George Floyd said Thursday that two of the involved officers were in their first week of working as police officers, and Derek Chauvin was training them.

Attorney Earl Gray is representing Thomas Lane, and said that the incident happened during his client’s third shift as a police officer, according to NBC News.

It was the second shift working for J. Alexander Kueng.

TRENDING: Cuomo Shreds de Blasio for Failing to Protect NYC From Rioters, Hints he Might Replace and Take Over

Kueng’s attorney, Tom Plunkett, said that Kueng tried to intervene and told the other officers, “You shouldn’t do that.”

Lane also tried to intervene, a claim backed up in the charging documents, by asking Chauvin “Shall we roll him over?”

Chauvin responded “No, staying put where we got him.”

According to the charging documents, Lane then expressed concern about excited delirium and Chauvin responded, “That’s why we have him on his stomach.”

“What is my client supposed to do other than follow what the training officer said?” Lane’s attorney said.

Tou Thao was handling crowd control during the incident, according to his attorney.

A judge ordered Tou Thao, Lane, and Kueng held on $1 million bail compounded with $750,000 conditional bail.

This really is a gamechanger, and the two new officers, Thao and Kueng should not face charges.

It seems the two did what they could, but Chauvin was their training officer and in charge.

The real problem with the Minneapolis Police Department, and other big city police departments, is far too many years of a Democrat run city government.

Via Knox News:

Minneapolis, Minn. has been under Democratic control since 1978. Chicago has been under Democratic control for 89 years; its present mayor is a black woman. Philadelphia has had Democratic mayors for 68 years; three of its last five mayors have been black men. Six of the last seven Atlanta, Ga., mayoral administrations were led by black Democratic mayors, and the present mayor is a black woman.

A city runs its police department and other services; therefore, if there is so much ‘systemic racism’ in these organizations, why hasn’t it been corrected over so many years under Democratic leaders?

Why aren’t these cities garden spots of racial tolerance, understanding, and virtue?

Because tolerance, understanding, and virtue don’t promote Democratic power. …

Unfortunately, in too many cases when people say they want an open and honest discussion about race in America, what they mean is they want an open and honest discussion only about what they say is wrong with people who aren’t them.

When people talk about the need to deal with systemic racism, if they’re not willing to talk about the systems run – often for generations by the political party or politicians they support – they aren’t interested in an open and honest conversation; instead, they want only to use the issue as a club against people who aren’t them

So it seems the real solution to the problems within many big city police departments is to quit voting for Democrats and vote Republicans into office.

Democrats get away with murder, while Republicans are held completely accountable, so the choice seems clear.

 

 

https://thefederalistpapers.org/us/breaking-two-officers-floyd-case-job-less-week-chauvin-trainer?fbclid=IwAR1xniPA6Sx0r-VY629yzNuj3td9vKPFm0vJl9kks1Y42Q8sJuh_GbEnB00

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12 minutes ago, BravoBravo said:

In a bombshell discovery that should in a rational world change everything, it seems two of the officers charged with the murder of George Floyd had been on the job for less than a week, and Chauvin was their training officer.

....     ...

So it seems the real solution to the problems within many big city police departments is to quit voting for Democrats and vote Republicans into office....  ...

https://thefederalistpapers.org/us/breaking-two-officers-floyd-case-job-less-week-chauvin-trainer?fbclid=IwAR1xniPA6Sx0r-VY629yzNuj3td9vKPFm0vJl9kks1Y42Q8sJuh_GbEnB00

 

Why does that "change everything"?

It reduces their guilt in being responsible for stopping Chauvin, in a sort of minimal way -IF- you think it's a question whether cops should be killing black people just for kicks.

And of course democrats = bad!

- DSK

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16 hours ago, Sean said:

One man proved willing to betray ideas and ideals that he had once stood for. The other refused. Why?

 

One had to run for reelection in South Carolina and the other one didn't. In order to do so, he first had to face a potential GOP primary electorate. What we see from him is quite likely what he sees from the South Carolina GOP electorate. 

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8 minutes ago, BravoBravo said:

In a bombshell discovery that should in a rational world change everything, it seems two of the officers charged with the murder of George Floyd had been on the job for less than a week, and Chauvin was their training officer.....

Via Blue Lives Matter:

An attorney for one of the officers charged in the death of George Floyd said Thursday that two of the involved officers were in their first week of working as police officers, and Derek Chauvin was training them.

Attorney Earl Gray is representing Thomas Lane, and said that the incident happened during his client’s third shift as a police officer, according to NBC News.

It was the second shift working for J. Alexander Kueng.

TRENDING: Cuomo Shreds de Blasio for Failing to Protect NYC From Rioters, Hints he Might Replace and Take Over

Kueng’s attorney, Tom Plunkett, said that Kueng tried to intervene and told the other officers, “You shouldn’t do that.”

Lane also tried to intervene, a claim backed up in the charging documents, by asking Chauvin “Shall we roll him over?”

Chauvin responded “No, staying put where we got him.”

According to the charging documents, Lane then expressed concern about excited delirium and Chauvin responded, “That’s why we have him on his stomach.”

“What is my client supposed to do other than follow what the training officer said?” Lane’s attorney said.

Tou Thao was handling crowd control during the incident, according to his attorney.

A judge ordered Tou Thao, Lane, and Kueng held on $1 million bail compounded with $750,000 conditional bail.

This really is a gamechanger, and the two new officers, Thao and Kueng should not face charges.

It seems the two did what they could, but Chauvin was their training officer and in charge.

The real problem with the Minneapolis Police Department, and other big city police departments, is far too many years of a Democrat run city government.

Via Knox News:

Minneapolis, Minn. has been under Democratic control since 1978. Chicago has been under Democratic control for 89 years; its present mayor is a black woman. Philadelphia has had Democratic mayors for 68 years; three of its last five mayors have been black men. Six of the last seven Atlanta, Ga., mayoral administrations were led by black Democratic mayors, and the present mayor is a black woman.

A city runs its police department and other services; therefore, if there is so much ‘systemic racism’ in these organizations, why hasn’t it been corrected over so many years under Democratic leaders?

Why aren’t these cities garden spots of racial tolerance, understanding, and virtue?

Because tolerance, understanding, and virtue don’t promote Democratic power. …

Unfortunately, in too many cases when people say they want an open and honest discussion about race in America, what they mean is they want an open and honest discussion only about what they say is wrong with people who aren’t them.

When people talk about the need to deal with systemic racism, if they’re not willing to talk about the systems run – often for generations by the political party or politicians they support – they aren’t interested in an open and honest conversation; instead, they want only to use the issue as a club against people who aren’t them

So it seems the real solution to the problems within many big city police departments is to quit voting for Democrats and vote Republicans into office.

Democrats get away with murder, while Republicans are held completely accountable, so the choice seems clear.

https://thefederalistpapers.org/us/breaking-two-officers-floyd-case-job-less-week-chauvin-trainer?fbclid=IwAR1xniPA6Sx0r-VY629yzNuj3td9vKPFm0vJl9kks1Y42Q8sJuh_GbEnB00

So the excuse for two of the officers is "I'm new here."  Sort of like a checkout worker at Lowe's not knowing which aisle to find spackle.  Meanwhile the cause of the problem is Democrats because when they say that, they really mean this.

And just for a tad of ironic icing on the cake, the article clubbing democrats and making no argument at all about systematic racism states that "they (Democrats) aren’t interested in an open and honest conversation; instead, they want only to use the issue as a club against people who aren’t them"

Brilliant piece, BB.  Just fucking priceless.  It's just a shame when that camera phone was in J. Alexander Kueng's face, he could have said, "It's okay... I'm new here. Have you considered complaining to the Democrats?"

 

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7 minutes ago, benwynn said:

So the excuse for two of the officers is "I'm new here."  Sort of like a checkout worker at Lowe's not knowing which aisle to find spackle.  Meanwhile the cause of the problem is Democrats because when they say that, they really mean this.

And just for a tad of ironic icing on the cake, the article clubbing democrats and making no argument at all about systematic racism states that "they (Democrats) aren’t interested in an open and honest conversation; instead, they want only to use the issue as a club against people who aren’t them"

Brilliant piece, BB.  Just fucking priceless.  It's just a shame when that camera phone was in J. Alexander Kueng's face, he could have said, "It's okay... I'm new here. Have you considered complaining to the Democrats?"

 

No not an excuse....just more information as to why they stood around as if it was normal.....but you understood that

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5 minutes ago, BravoBravo said:

No not an excuse....just more information as to why they stood around as if it was normal.....but you understood that

Someone hold my coffee while I employ a take-away from the article...

When you say "just more information as to why they stood around as if it was normal" what you really mean is "I care more about the cops than I do about the black guy Derek Chauvin killed."  And you're a Republican so it's their fault.

How did I do?   Cut me some slack. I''m new at this.

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stood around?  That's some top flight delusional bullshit right there.  I see one guy standing, and three that seem to be busy kneeling, perhaps in prayer. 

200529134923-new-george-floyd-arrest-vid

 

How will history judge the nutty motherfuckers who tried to cover for those men?  

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4 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

stood around?  That's some top flight delusional bullshit right there.  I see one guy standing, and three that seem to be busy kneeling, perhaps in prayer. 

200529134923-new-george-floyd-arrest-vid

 

How will history judge the nutty motherfuckers who tried to cover for those men?  

I know if I had a boss that said we should murder someone, I would refuse. I think most folks would.  

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To comment on the OP.... 

IMHO, all the Trumpsters will fire up the gaslights and deny they ever supported him, 5 minutes after he's gone.  A large enough portion of the population has a short enough attention span to believe it.  While still falling back on "R=good, D=bad", as preached by Fox. 

As for comparisons...

I've always thought of Steven Miller as analogous to Goebbels, but Bormann might be better, and Hannity for Goebbels.

Is Barr closer to Himmler or Goring? both seem to fit, as he assembles his secret police.

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Kirwan said:

IMHO, all the Trumpsters will fire up the gaslights and deny they ever supported him, 5 minutes after he's gone. 

Oh that is a given. I know who will be ignoring the name "Trump" and acting as if his administration never happened, the day after he leaves office, whenever that may be. I know who will be rediscovering his desire for fiscal responsibility, small government and the like, at the same time. Good. Principled. Conservatives..who look the other way on ALL of it when their team is in power. 

I know who will be doing the "Trump Who?" 

Not a matter of "if" it's a matter of "when". 

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26 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

stood around?  That's some top flight delusional bullshit right there.  I see one guy standing, and three that seem to be busy kneeling, perhaps in prayer. 

200529134923-new-george-floyd-arrest-vid

 

How will history judge the nutty motherfuckers who tried to cover for those men?  

It's okay.  They're new.  And it's not about them.  It's about Democrats.  @BravoBravo  would rather not see this issue clouded with the trivial matter of personal responsibility.

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38 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

stood around?  That's some top flight delusional bullshit right there.  I see one guy standing, and three that seem to be busy kneeling, perhaps in prayer. 

200529134923-new-george-floyd-arrest-vid

 

How will history judge the nutty motherfuckers who tried to cover for those men?  

Here's more of those same type folks standing around and having a good laugh. 

How will history judge these nutty motherfuckers? 

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1 hour ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

stood around?  That's some top flight delusional bullshit right there.  I see one guy standing, and three that seem to be busy kneeling, perhaps in prayer. 

200529134923-new-george-floyd-arrest-vid

 

How will history judge the nutty motherfuckers who tried to cover for those men?  

Caption, is, sadly "hey boys, here's how you kill a nigger"

 

BB approves this message.

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1 hour ago, BravoBravo said:

No not an excuse....just more information as to why they stood around as if it was normal.....but you understood that

And in what alternate universe do you live in where you think this is relevant ?

In every police force in the world, training covers how to arrest people. Without killing them.

Being a trainee excuses you from citing the correct penal code for a particular crime to people. Not killing them.

Being a trainee does not brainwash you into meekly standing by mouthing a few mewlings whilst watching an act of murder.     

What a pathetic piece of shit the author must be. I feel sorry for you. Your soul is so full of bitterness and full of hate you can even justify murder in support of your piece of shit hero.

     

 

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Just now, Ishmael said:

BozoBozo has really gone off the deep end here. WTF is wrong with him?

Who knows? ignore button...

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11 minutes ago, shaggybaxter said:
1 hour ago, BravoBravo said:

No not an excuse....just more information as to why they stood around as if it was normal.....but you understood that

And in what alternate universe do you live in where you think this is relevant ?

In every police force in the world, training covers how to arrest people. Without killing them.

Being a trainee excuses you from citing the correct penal code for a particular crime to people. Not killing them.

Being a trainee does not brainwash you into meekly standing by mouthing a few mewlings whilst watching an act of murder.     

What a pathetic piece of shit the author must be. I feel sorry for you. Your soul is so full of bitterness and full of hate you can even justify murder in support of your piece of shit hero.

Yeah but he has a black friend. Whom he thinks would get a laugh out of his "making libby-rull heads explode."

Being a sad piece of shit on the internet must be a lot of fun, for some.

- DSK

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13 minutes ago, shaggybaxter said:

And in what alternate universe do you live in where you think this is relevant ?

In every police force in the world, training covers how to arrest people. Without killing them.

Being a trainee excuses you from citing the correct penal code for a particular crime to people. Not killing them.

Being a trainee does not brainwash you into meekly standing by mouthing a few mewlings whilst watching an act of murder.     

What a pathetic piece of shit the author must be. I feel sorry for you. Your soul is so full of bitterness and full of hate you can even justify murder in support of your piece of shit hero.

     

 

A good analogy...on the TV series Air Crashes in which the FAA sleuths out the causes of air crashes, there have been several attributed to young co pilots deferring to over bearing Captains when the co pilots had repeatedly voiced concern over dire warnings only to become silenced out of fear of crossing paths with the superior. As I said I am not excusing merely pointing out how human nature is sometimes affected by circumstances. 

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9 minutes ago, BravoBravo said:

A good analogy...on the TV series Air Crashes in which the FAA sleuths out the causes of air crashes, there have been several attributed to young co pilots deferring to over bearing Captains when the co pilots had repeatedly voiced concern over dire warnings only to become silenced out of fear of crossing paths with the superior. As I said I am not excusing merely pointing out how human nature is sometimes affected by circumstances. 

No you' re not. You're citing an article in an attempt to apportion blame on the political side you oppose. You poorly attempt to mask it, that' s all.

 

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