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1 hour ago, Burning Man said:

Yep.  It's the one thing we've consistently agreed upon.  All this hand wringing about an unfair system and how blacks are discriminated against and on and on..... blah blah blah.  But yet the problem starts and ends at home.  I have said that money would be far better spent on educating parents and teaching them how to be parents before they pop out their children.  How to read to their kids from day 1, teach them about good nutrition, etc.  Having a father around would help too.  But Every $ spent on those efforts would surpass $1000 spent on trying to get underperforming blacks kids into college when they are not prepared.  All the Head-start and pre-school programs and after-school programs and such are mostly wasted if as soon as they get home, they live in a shit environment where the "parent" tells the kid that school is not important and is a waste of time.  

But of course all that inequity above is the white person's fault.  

Maybe if so many white people didn't burn down black homes, black businesses, and continually elect politicians that strip any public benefit from black communities like school budgets, black people would have less tendency to blame white people.

And of course, your insistence (again) that black people should not go to college is duly noted

- DSK

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According to the police report the statue slipped and fell into the river.

LOL...really...LOL...one of the lefts favorite rants is against privatized prisons...

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1 minute ago, Steam Flyer said:

Maybe if so many white people didn't burn down black homes, black businesses, and continually elect politicians that strip any public benefit from black communities like school budgets, black people would have less tendency to blame white people.

And of course, your insistence (again) that black people should not go to college is duly noted

- DSK

Whites are burning down black homes and businesses???  Wow, I just looked through the current news and didn't see any references to that?  Or are you still talking about 100 years ago?  Nice use of the present tense grammar to try to slide by your BS as if whites are still doing that today.  

And I have never said blacks shouldn't go to college.  I absolutely think they should go to college.  I said that throwing money at trying to get blacks into college that are not prepared for it doesn't seem like an efficient use of taxpayer $$ when they could be better spent eliminating that 2 year gap from the beginning that @Cal20sailor talked about.  

But I do appreciate the twofer of disingenuous lies in one post.  WFD.  Now that is efficiency right there.  

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4 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

Whites are burning down black homes and businesses???  Wow, I just looked through the current news and didn't see any references to that?  Or are you still talking about 100 years ago?  Nice use of the present tense grammar to try to slide by your BS as if whites are still doing that today.  

And I have never said blacks shouldn't go to college.  I absolutely think they should go to college.  I said that throwing money at trying to get blacks into college that are not prepared for it doesn't seem like an efficient use of taxpayer $$ when they could be better spent eliminating that 2 year gap from the beginning that @Cal20sailor talked about.  

But I do appreciate the twofer of disingenuous lies in one post.  WFD.  Now that is efficiency right there.  

Would houses of worship do? From Wikipedia:

2011–present

  • 2014 November 24 The Flood Christian Church in Ferguson, Missouri, was burned by arsonists during a series of protests over the police shooting of Michael Brown, Jr. Michael Brown Sr. had been baptized at the church a week before the fire.[14] While other buildings in Ferguson were burned that night, the church was some distance from the protests, and buildings nearby were not damaged; investigators also found signs of forced entry at the church.[15] Members of the congregation believed it had been a targeted attack, motivated by Pastor Carlton Lee's calls for Officer Darren Wilson's arrest and his participation in Al Sharpton's National Action Network.[14][16] Pastor Lee died of an apparent heart attack in 2017, at the age of 34.[17]
  • 2015 June 17 At Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church in Charleston, South Carolina, 10 African Americans, including Clementa C. Pinckney, member of the South Carolina Senate, were shot in a mass attack; nine were killed. White supremacist and neo-Nazi Dylann Roof pled guilty to murder and was sentenced to nine consecutive life sentences without parole.
  • 2015 June 22 At College Hill Seventh Day Adventist, in Knoxville, Tennessee, a small fire was set, resulting in minimal damage to the church structure and destruction of the church van. The act was not classified as a hate crime.[18]
  • 2015 June 23 God's Power Church of Christ in Macon, Georgia, was gutted by a fire which was ruled arson.[19][20]
  • 2015 June 24 At Briar Creek Baptist Church in Charlotte, North Carolina, an unknown arsonist started a three-alarm fire, causing more than $250,000 in damages.[21]
  • 2016 November 1 The 111-year-old Hopewell Missionary Baptist Church in Greenville, Mississippi, was burned and vandalized with the words "Vote Trump" spray-painted onto the building. The arsonist, a black man who was a member of the church, pled guilty in March 2019.[22][23][24]
  • 2018 June 20 Venice First Baptist Church in Venice, California. This was a 117 year old black church in Los Angeles that was fraudulently acquired by controversial Southern heir Jay Penske, son of Indy 500 and Presidential Merit Recipient Roger Penske. Penske not only acquired the church in a fraudulent sale with rumors of sexual misconduct passing around about the pastor, but his family company Dragon Holdings also acquired an interest in Oakwood Park across the street. The Penske family has been subject to racial controversy ranging from this to his alleged corroboration and investment from the Saudi Arabian government after the murder of Washington Post journalist and Saudi dissident Jamal Khashoggi, to hazing incidents involving multiple Penske pit crew members wearing sheets resembling KKK hoods and intimidating an African American pit crew member on a different team. [25][26][27]
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5 minutes ago, Remodel said:
10 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

Whites are burning down black homes and businesses???  Wow, I just looked through the current news and didn't see any references to that?  Or are you still talking about 100 years ago?  Nice use of the present tense grammar to try to slide by your BS as if whites are still doing that today.  

And I have never said blacks shouldn't go to college.  I absolutely think they should go to college.  I said that throwing money at trying to get blacks into college that are not prepared for it doesn't seem like an efficient use of taxpayer $$ when they could be better spent eliminating that 2 year gap from the beginning that @Cal20sailor talked about.  

But I do appreciate the twofer of disingenuous lies in one post.  WFD.  Now that is efficiency right there.  

Would houses of worship do? From Wikipedia:

2011–present

  • 2014 November 24 The Flood Christian Church in Ferguson, Missouri, was burned by arsonists during a series of protests over the police shooting of Michael Brown, Jr. Michael Brown Sr. had been baptized at the church a week before the fire.[14] While other buildings in Ferguson were burned that night, the church was some distance from the protests, and buildings nearby were not damaged; investigators also found signs of forced entry at the church.[15] Members of the congregation believed it had been a targeted attack, motivated by Pastor Carlton Lee's calls for Officer Darren Wilson's arrest and his participation in Al Sharpton's National Action Network.[14][16] Pastor Lee died of an apparent heart attack in 2017, at the age of 34.[17]
  • 2015 June 17 At Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church in Charleston, South Carolina, 10 African Americans, including Clementa C. Pinckney, member of the South Carolina Senate, were shot in a mass attack; nine were killed. White supremacist and neo-Nazi Dylann Roof pled guilty to murder and was sentenced to nine consecutive life sentences without parole.
  • 2015 June 22 At College Hill Seventh Day Adventist, in Knoxville, Tennessee, a small fire was set, resulting in minimal damage to the church structure and destruction of the church van. The act was not classified as a hate crime.[18]
  • 2015 June 23 God's Power Church of Christ in Macon, Georgia, was gutted by a fire which was ruled arson.[19][20]
  • 2015 June 24 At Briar Creek Baptist Church in Charlotte, North Carolina, an unknown arsonist started a three-alarm fire, causing more than $250,000 in damages.[21]
  • 2016 November 1 The 111-year-old Hopewell Missionary Baptist Church in Greenville, Mississippi, was burned and vandalized with the words "Vote Trump" spray-painted onto the building. The arsonist, a black man who was a member of the church, pled guilty in March 2019.[22][23][24]
  • 2018 June 20 Venice First Baptist Church in Venice, California. This was a 117 year old black church in Los Angeles that was fraudulently acquired by controversial Southern heir Jay Penske, son of Indy 500 and Presidential Merit Recipient Roger Penske. Penske not only acquired the church in a fraudulent sale with rumors of sexual misconduct passing around about the pastor, but his family company Dragon Holdings also acquired an interest in Oakwood Park across the street. The Penske family has been subject to racial controversy ranging from this to his alleged corroboration and investment from the Saudi Arabian government after the murder of Washington Post journalist and Saudi dissident Jamal Khashoggi, to hazing incidents involving multiple Penske pit crew members wearing sheets resembling KKK hoods and intimidating an African American pit crew member on a different team. [25][26][27]

Oops

Another big pile of them goddam liberal facts to embarrass Karen Man

- DSK

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9 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

You omitted I don't do Wolfsey.....it interferes with living.

HackSparrow - Listen up, Mikewof, I'm here to tell you how wrong you are, and you need an Australian to tell you how things really are in America.

Mikewof - Wait, with what do you actually disagree?

HackSparrow - I'm not going to talk to you!

 

HackSparrow, living proof of the shallow end of the gene pool.

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4 hours ago, Jules said:

If I had any faith in independent thinking, I'd say we start by voting out all the incumbents in 2020 and keep doing that until elected officials get the message they work for us.  But too many Americans are too brainwashed to do such a thing.  So basically, we're doomed to repeat the same mistakes in perpetuity. 

We have two other votes in the USA, besides political office.

We're now at an interesting time, even corporations can't deny this reality of a 140 lbs. young Black Buddhist getting held down onto the sidewalk, forcibly injected with a massive dose of Ketamine and murdered by police.

Even corporations are now admitting that black lives matter.

It's time to break out those other two votes, for grand jury and jury. We can overturn unjust laws and stop letting uniformed murderers off the hook.

An average American only gets these votes a handful of times in a lifetime, but each one has the power of 10,000 votes for public office.

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5 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

I'm at the shallow end....well if that is the case Mikey I'm not the one drowning.

Your knowledge of civil rights efforts in the USA is about as nuanced as an episode of Home and Away.

Maybe focus on your own country? You have some serious nationalism problems largely unaddressed ...

Golden-Dawn-pictures-011.jpg

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7 hours ago, Saorsa said:

How about taking some positive action to bring about change?

Talk isn't enough.

That is what I meant.  Looting and rioting is just ‘talk’.  Protesting is just ‘talk’.   All these people talking and expecting actual change.   Why don’t they direct that energy towards implementing the changes they desire.  
 

politicians aren’t going to do it for them.    

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1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

Maybe if so many white people didn't burn down black homes, black businesses, and continually elect politicians that strip any public benefit from black communities like school budgets, black people would have less tendency to blame white people.

And of course, your insistence (again) that black people should not go to college is duly noted

- DSK

Do you understand how schools in the IS are funded?  Your posts indicate you don’t. 

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5 hours ago, Jules said:

Immediately to reparations?  Open your mind. Get off the mindless talking points designed to piss us off. 

The solution is far more complex and will take decades to accomplish.  But if we don't start somewhere, this cancer will continue to eat away at our society.

More talk. No solutions.  Haven’t stated what the ‘cancer’ is.

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5 hours ago, Jules said:

If I had any faith in independent thinking, I'd say we start by voting out all the incumbents in 2020 and keep doing that until elected officials get the message they work for us.  But too many Americans are too brainwashed to do such a thing.  So basically, we're doomed to repeat the same mistakes in perpetuity. 

The US started voted out incumbents in 2016.  Glad you are on board.

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11 minutes ago, Rok Dog said:
2 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:
...

 

Do you understand how schools in the IS are funded?  Your posts indicate you don’t. 

No, I don't know how schools in the IS are funded. Is that where you live? Go ahead and tell us, although it doesn't seem relevant to America

- DSK

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30 minutes ago, Rok Dog said:

More talk. No solutions.  Haven’t stated what the ‘cancer’ is.

I can't speak for Jules, but one of the cancers is right in front of us ... this sweet, angelic kid Elijah McClain, peaceful to his core, even forgives the police as they murdered him. I like this video of him, taken right before he was killed, he gives the store clerk a little bow of honor ...

Of course HackSparrow might be back to tell us that we don't actually understand anything about Black Lives Matter, but Americans getting murdered by police is a cancer. And police feeling powerless to step in and protect potential victims from psychopathic coworkers is a cancer. There is no way that any of us can establish justice and domestic tranquility with a sizeable chunk of our population subject to open season hunting by a handful of police who tend to be protected for their crimes.

A cancer like that goes beyond racism. We can't even effectively work to solve racism while Americans are murdered by the people sworn to protect them.

Both of my teenagers just left for an Elijah protest in Aurora (cue Meli telling me that I'm a bad parent, but whatever) they had their signs and goggles and tear gas masks. Hopefully they won't need them this time.

I'm bullish on the USA though. We'll fix this problem, and then we'll fix other problems, and hopefully our grandchildren will have a whole different set of problems to fix. We have a great country, made greater by people fighting that cancer. If only sweet guys like Elijah McCain didn't have to die to solve this problem ...

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57 minutes ago, Rok Dog said:

That is what I meant.  Looting and rioting is just ‘talk’.  Protesting is just ‘talk’.   All these people talking and expecting actual change.   Why don’t they direct that energy towards implementing the changes they desire.  
 

politicians aren’t going to do it for them.    

Nailed it.

Politicians aren't any kind of panacea. They're our low-level employees, empowered to do what we tell them, and that's limited to a political arena, which is can be powerful, but is more often impotent.

There are millions of protesters doing more than talk ... they're walking, screaming, getting gassed, they're voting, writing, waving signs, talking to television cameras, streaming videos, hanging juries, voting indictments on grand juries.

This is how things change. The USA is as vibrant with action as we've ever been. Change keeps coming.

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2 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

No, I don't know how schools in the IS are funded. Is that where you live? Go ahead and tell us, although it doesn't seem relevant to America

- DSK

Nada. Must be shift change at the troll farm.

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6 hours ago, mikewof said:

Nailed it.

Politicians aren't any kind of panacea. They're our low-level employees, empowered to do what we tell them, and that's limited to a political arena, which is can be powerful, but is more often impotent.

There are millions of protesters doing more than talk ... they're walking, screaming, getting gassed, they're voting, writing, waving signs, talking to television cameras, streaming videos, hanging juries, voting indictments on grand juries.

This is how things change. The USA is as vibrant with action as we've ever been. Change keeps coming.

 

This is the one that matters. If they had made a habit out of voting earlier, things would not be where they are to have all the protests 'n shit

- DSK

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11 hours ago, Burning Man said:

Yep.  It's the one thing we've consistently agreed upon.  All this hand wringing about an unfair system and how blacks are discriminated against and on and on..... blah blah blah.  But yet the problem starts and ends at home.  I have said that money would be far better spent on educating parents and teaching them how to be parents before they pop out their children.  How to read to their kids from day 1, teach them about good nutrition, etc.  Having a father around would help too.  But Every $ spent on those efforts would surpass $1000 spent on trying to get underperforming blacks kids into college when they are not prepared.  All the Head-start and pre-school programs and after-school programs and such are mostly wasted if as soon as they get home, they live in a shit environment where the "parent" tells the kid that school is not important and is a waste of time.  

But of course all that inequity above is the white person's fault.  

The idea behind intervening aimed at younger folks, is: they're future parents. 

Someone with a college degree is (a) less likely to have a kid out of wedlock and (b) more likely to be a good parent.

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35 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

 

This is the one that matters. If they had made a habit out of voting earlier, things would not be where they are to have all the protests 'n shit

- DSK

That's hopelessly optimistic. Voting is obviously important, but poorly-trained and rougue cops were murdering innocent, unarmed people when Obama was President too.

The "protests 'n shit" are a critical ingredient in the continued health of our republic.

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9 minutes ago, mikewof said:

That's hopelessly optimistic. Voting is obviously important, but poorly-trained and rougue cops were murdering innocent, unarmed people when Obama was President too.

The "protests 'n shit" are a critical ingredient in the continued health of our republic.

Not sure I agree or completely disagree. The right to protest is important but a smart skipper let's his crew blow off steam complaining as long as they keep working.

Obama won two elections but the down-ticket elections and the off-year elections were a HUGE "success" for asshole wing of the Trumpublican-To-Be Party. If those people had all come out and voted then, and voted for lower positions where it counted, the country would not be in the mess it is now

- DSK

 

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2 hours ago, frenchie said:

The idea behind intervening aimed at younger folks, is: they're future parents. 

Someone with a college degree is (a) less likely to have a kid out of wedlock and (b) more likely to be a good parent.

(c) in a better situation to support the family.

Edumacation matters.

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2 hours ago, mikewof said:

That's hopelessly optimistic. Voting is obviously important, but poorly-trained and rougue cops were murdering innocent, unarmed people when Obama was President too.

The "protests 'n shit" are a critical ingredient in the continued health of our republic.

"if voting could change the system, it would be illegal"

- graffitti, montreal, circa mid-80's.

 

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3 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Not sure I agree or completely disagree. The right to protest is important but a smart skipper let's his crew blow off steam complaining as long as they keep working.

Obama won two elections but the down-ticket elections and the off-year elections were a HUGE "success" for asshole wing of the Trumpublican-To-Be Party. If those people had all come out and voted then, and voted for lower positions where it counted, the country would not be in the mess it is now

- DSK

 

How would voting change anything for Elijah McClain's family? The police cleared the officers who did it, they close the investigation and then called it settled.

They wouldn't release the body cam videos, they denied pumping him full of Ketamine, and they denied every aspect of it.

Now they reopened the whole thing, to the Aurora police department's protest ... would any of this have happened without protest? Voting is terrific, but the First Amendment exists for some very specific reasons.

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Hope your kids are allright.  There were violin vigils for Elijah today, in LA:

 And NYC:

 

But the main one, in Aurora, got teargassed:

 

and update... looks like it just moved, to the parking lot, at least for now.

Talk about a tone-deaf fucking response...  

Of course... maybe one shouldn't be too surprised:  

 

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The daughters didn't tell me anything about the tear gas, they did help block off Interstate 225, which is kind of impressive to me, I have no idea how someone goes about blocking off a 70 mph highway with nothing but their bodies and protest signs. The older daughter saw some Aurora Police "snipers" on a roof, presumably just observing.

I thought it was kind of interesting that these BLM protestors are "policing" themselves to no weed, no alcohol, no tobacco during the protests, taking it seriously enough to stay focused on the BLM protests.

The violin vigils were beautiful. I wish there was a video of Elijah playing his violin for the animals, but I've never seen one, just the photo ...

Elijah-McClain-d.jpg

The crazy part is that nobody I know, knew anything about Elijah up until George Floyd. I saw some bits on the news about it last year, but the official story then was that APD had restrained a crazy, out-of-control drugged-out maniac who then had a heart-attack on the way to the hospital. Nothing about him being beaten to a pulp, nothing about him only being a 140 lbs. little guy, nothing about the body-cams showing that the cops hid most of what happened, nothing that the toxicology report showed he was actually not on any drugs other than a little weed and twice the legal dose of Ketamine administered by the police, nothing about the police admitting that he hadn't in fact committed any kind of offense. The narrative from last year was 180-degrees from the reality of what we now see happened.

It took these protests for Aurora to tell the police to stop using that murderous carotid hold that blocks the blood to the brain and the air to the lungs. This happened in some really nice suburbs, a good neighborhood in Aurora, pretty close to Anschutz, close to where I grew up. What chance is there is neighborhoods with true poverty and real drug problems? This happened to a really nice kid who never had any problems, what chance is there for regular people who get into altercations with cops and have muscles and 200 lbs of mass?

I'm beginning to lose any faith at all that this problem will be fixed by voting or "reform" or improvements to training. Maybe now that corporations are finally starting to show BLM logos, maybe this will be the tipping point to fixing this? Or is this going to keep happening until we see actual riots again? Sometimes I think the only one who ever had the right idea was Malcolm X ... get guns, and keep your distance from the people who seem hell-bent on destroying you.

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7 hours ago, mikewof said:

I'm beginning to lose any faith at all that this problem will be fixed by voting or "reform" or improvements to training.

Finally...

I hit that point a couple months before George Floyd, just from subbing to a few police-misconduct sub on reddit. 

Currently, the #copslie hashtag on twitter, is full of stories by public defenders, about the sort of bullshit they've seen in the courtroom.  That gets people put away, too often.

  

Next step: dig into the decarceration /prison abolition discussions.  It's one eye-opener after another.  The problem is much deeper, and more widespread, than it seems at first glance. 

Our whole approach is fucked up  -  which makes sense, when you consider its history & evolution.  

A lot of what Tom's gone on about, over the years, starts to make a lot more sense. 

So does a lot of what Angela Davis has written  -  truth DGAF about ideological labels.

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1 hour ago, frenchie said:

Finally...

I hit that point a couple months before George Floyd, just from subbing to a few police-misconduct sub on reddit. 

Currently, the #copslie hashtag on twitter, is full of stories by public defenders, about the sort of bullshit they've seen in the courtroom.  That gets people put away, too often.

  

Next step: dig into the decarceration /prison abolition discussions.  It's one eye-opener after another.  The problem is much deeper, and more widespread, than it seems at first glance. 

Our whole approach is fucked up  -  which makes sense, when you consider its history & evolution.  

A lot of what Tom's gone on about, over the years, starts to make a lot more sense.

Agree - people who throw Tom under the bus just because of his idiotic fixation on his wife's precious Ruger miss a lot of the other valuable stuff he brings out.

FKT

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1 hour ago, frenchie said:

Finally...

I hit that point a couple months before George Floyd, just from subbing to a few police-misconduct sub on reddit. 

Currently, the #copslie hashtag on twitter, is full of stories by public defenders, about the sort of bullshit they've seen in the courtroom.  That gets people put away, too often.

  

Next step: dig into the decarceration /prison abolition discussions.  It's one eye-opener after another.  The problem is much deeper, and more widespread, than it seems at first glance. 

Our whole approach is fucked up  -  which makes sense, when you consider its history & evolution.  

A lot of what Tom's gone on about, over the years, starts to make a lot more sense. 

So does a lot of what Angela Davis has written  -  truth DGAF about ideological labels.

Aurora PD wouldn't touch the Elijah McClain case, to the contrary, they successfully buried it. The the Floyd protests dug it up, and now the Governor promised to reopen it. I'm not sure if he will, but that's the promise. So the protests are rewarded with at least a vague attempt at justice.

But in the case of McClain, he would most likely be alive right now if those cops were properly trained, were explicitly forbidden from doing the chokehold, if they wouldn't have given him a massive dose of Ketamine ... while we're waiting for this overhaul, the police officers themselves need to become stakeholders in doing their jobs correctly.

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In fact, I believe that all memorials grandstanding war or glorifying it should be removed. I'm not talking about memorial walls, or cemeteries, but Pershing on his horse, Roosevelt like wise. Giant spiked cannons at the corners of cemeteries... these have no pace in civil society, especially not cemeteries.

 

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49 minutes ago, mikewof said:

Aurora PD wouldn't touch the Elijah McClain case, to the contrary, they successfully buried it.

Them AND the DA. 

It's not just "poorly trained" police that are the problem  -  it's also the DAs who allow (hell, support) the results of that "poor training".

Go on twitter, do a search for #copslie.  Yesterday, public defenders started using that hashtag for their stories of cops lying in courtrooms. 

Patterns emerge:

  • Even when they prove a cop's lying, there's no guarantee the DA drops the charges;  
  • there's no guarantee the DA won't put that cop on the stand in the future;  
  • but it's pretty much guaranteed the DA won't prosecute the lying cop for perjury, and
  • it's absolutely guaranteed they won't mention, next time they put that cop on the stand, that the cop's a proven liar.

Seriously, browse the stories for an hour.  It's a wake-up.

49 minutes ago, mikewof said:

But in the case of McClain, he would most likely be alive right now if those cops were properly trained, were explicitly forbidden from doing the chokehold, if they wouldn't have given him a massive dose of Ketamine ... while we're waiting for this overhaul, the police officers themselves need to become stakeholders in doing their jobs correctly.

You're thinking way too shallow, IMO.  I think you were much more correct, 9 hours earlier: this isn't a problem that can be fixed by reform or improvements to training. 

The whole system needs a radical re-design.  Structural, gut, renovation: not a coat of paint.

I don't want anyone to have to live with "better trained" enforcers of a system designed to oppress.  I want that system replaced one designed to create actual justice.

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3 hours ago, frenchie said:

Them AND the DA. 

It's not just "poorly trained" police that are the problem  -  it's also the DAs who allow (hell, support) the results of that "poor training".

Go on twitter, do a search for #copslie.  Yesterday, public defenders started using that hashtag for their stories of cops lying in courtrooms. 

Patterns emerge:

  • Even when they prove a cop's lying, there's no guarantee the DA drops the charges;  
  • there's no guarantee the DA won't put that cop on the stand in the future;  
  • but it's pretty much guaranteed the DA won't prosecute the lying cop for perjury, and
  • it's absolutely guaranteed they won't mention, next time they put that cop on the stand, that the cop's a proven liar.

Seriously, browse the stories for an hour.  It's a wake-up.

You're thinking way too shallow, IMO.  I think you were much more correct, 9 hours earlier: this isn't a problem that can be fixed by reform or improvements to training. 

The whole system needs a radical re-design.  Structural, gut, renovation: not a coat of paint.

I don't want anyone to have to live with "better trained" enforcers of a system designed to oppress.  I want that system replaced one designed to create actual justice.

The whole system may need a radical redesign, a gut renovation and all that. But that will take years. In the mean-time, there needs to be some fixes wherever they can be made. There were two glaring, specific mistakes made with Elijah McClain that cost his life. But they just don't learn. Yesterday the Aurora police busted down on the violin vigil and tear gassed them, because they had a report that some of the protestors "were carrying rocks."

Perhaps individual cops are as intelligent as anyone else, but put them in a group and they begin to resemble Sailing Anarchy.

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4 hours ago, Mrleft8 said:

In fact, I believe that all memorials grandstanding war or glorifying it should be removed. I'm not talking about memorial walls, or cemeteries, but Pershing on his horse, Roosevelt like wise. Giant spiked cannons at the corners of cemeteries... these have no pace in civil society, especially not cemeteries.

How much of our naughty history should we bulldoze? Will we know when to stop?

“Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped." - Georgy Orwell, 1984.

Do we need to nullify all that history to be a people hell-bent on social justice? Can we remain a people hell-bent on social justice without those bits of history reminding us from where we came?

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4 hours ago, Mrleft8 said:

In fact, I believe that all memorials grandstanding war or glorifying it should be removed. I'm not talking about memorial walls, or cemeteries, but Pershing on his horse, Roosevelt like wise. Giant spiked cannons at the corners of cemeteries... these have no pace in civil society, especially not cemeteries.

 

A small country town I travel through occasionally has a military tank in a park in the middle of it.  Now I am used to seeing cannons, antiaircraft guns and the like scattered all over the county, but that tank offends me.

I think it's because it's a fairly modern one, clearly not war bounty, I think it was an Australian Army model.  I might start a campaign to fuck it off!

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27 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

A Question.

Do you have a national "Sorry" day or "national day of healing/reconciliation" in the USA?

Either for indigenous Americans or Black Americans?

No. That would imply that America had done something wrong.

 

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Are you serious as why people are scared of BLM and the guilt-ed white millennials?  What fucking rock have you been living under you snowflake.  I am assuming you think they are walking around burning shit down so they can roast marshmallows, playing the guitar, holding hands, singing happy songs.  Bring that shit to my hood and see what happens.  They are testing the limits of civility and most people wont take it.  These groups are not scared of the cops, cause the cops are scared to get in trouble.  Walk onto a private citizens property and you are going to get lit up.  

Protest all you want, but don't expect a free pass to ruin someones personal property without them defending it.  

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44 minutes ago, Jules said:

Attorneys Mark and Patricia McCloskey protect their castle against the evil BLM protesters.  Why are white people so paranoid and hysterical?

Now beamed into loungerooms around the world. Might as well pumps 4 rounds into their own feet.

 

 

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10 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

A Question.

Do you have a national "Sorry" day or "national day of healing/reconciliation" in the USA?

Either for indigenous Americans or Black Americans?

We have a lot of those, from National/Federal to state ...

  1. Martin Luther King Day
  2. Holocaust Memorial Day
  3. World Religion Day
  4. Black History Month
  5. National Freedom Day
  6. Susan B. Anthony Day
  7. Women's Day
  8. Social Justice Day
  9. Cesar Chavez Day
  10. National Women's History Month
  11. Genocide Awareness Month
  12. Day of Silence
  13. Yom Hashoah
  14. Press Freedom Day
  15. Cinco De Mayo
  16. Memorial Day
  17. Cultural Diversity Day
  18. Jewish American Heritage Month
  19. Asian Pacific Heritage Month
  20. LGBTQ+ Pride Month
  21. Race Unity Day
  22. Anniversay of Legalization of Same Sex Marriage in the USA
  23. Refugee Day
  24. Americans with Disabilities Act Day
  25. Day of World's Indigenous Peoples
  26. Day of Remembrance of the Salve Trade and Abolition
  27. Women's Equality Day
  28. Senior Citizen Day
  29. Day of Charity
  30. Neighbor Day (that's mine, btw, remember it, 3/11)
  31. Labor Day
  32. Constitution Day and Citizenship Day
  33. National Hispanic Heritage Month
  34. Bi- Visibility Day
  35. Day of Charity
  36. National Disability Employment Awareness Month
  37. Day of Non-Violence
  38. Coming Out Day
  39. Indigenous People's - Native American Day
  40. Day for the Eradication of Poverty
  41. National American Indian Heritage Month
  42. Transgender Day of Remembrance
  43. Day for Tolerance
  44. Thanksgiving Day
  45. International Day of Person's with Disabilities
  46. AIDS Day
  47. Human Rights Day
  48. Bill of Rights Day
  49. Wounded Knee Day

They encompass a lot of cultures and heritages, but do you notice one glaring omission in all of that? One monstrous, glaring omission? One omission so freaking enormous that its absence is a national disgrace?

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6 hours ago, Jules said:

Attorneys Mark and Patricia McCloskey protect their castle against the evil BLM protesters.  Why are white people so paranoid and hysterical?

 

Why? What kind of egotistical asshats live in a house like that and then stand in front with guns? It looks like The Beverly Hillbillies house as inhabited by someone who doesn't get the joke.

He and his wife could have come outside, offered sodas and snacks to the marchers, supported them, but Mark and Patricia are obviously a couple of paranoid delusionals who won the lotto.

Patricia and Mark hold their guns in a way that says "please, someone shoot us, this pretending is hard work."

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11 minutes ago, mikewof said:

Why? What kind of egotistical asshats live in a house like that and then stand in front with guns? It looks like The Beverly Hillbillies house as inhabited by someone who doesn't get the joke.

He and his wife could have come outside, offered sodas and snacks to the marchers, supported them, but Mark and Patricia are obviously a couple of paranoid delusionals who won the lotto.

Patricia and Mark hold their guns in a way that says "please, someone shoot us, this pretending is hard work."

They're both lucky he didn't shoot her, or either of them shoot themselves.

Anyway, they should be a little more paranoid now than they were before, because now the people who do crimes know where to go to steal some guns

- DSK

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They're really lucky.  Aside from the lack of muzzle discipline, by either of them  -  her trigger discipline is non existent.  She had her finger halfway through the fucking trigger guard the whole time, as she muzzle-swept the crowd...

Irony: it seems one of his clients is a police brutality victim, cop kicked him when he was down & cuffed.

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A Harris County prosecutor who shared a social media post that appeared to compare protesters to Nazis has resigned, the district attorney's office told ABC13.

Last week, Kaylynn Williford, who works for Harris County District Attorney Kim Ogg, shared a black and white photograph of wedding rings and the words, "Wedding bands that were removed from Holocaust victims prior to being executed, 1945. Each ring represents a destroyed family. Never forget, Nazis tore down statues. Banned free speech. Blamed economic hardships on one group of people. Instituted gun control. Sound Familiar?"

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1 hour ago, mikewof said:

They encompass a lot of cultures and heritages, but do you notice one glaring omission in all of that? One monstrous, glaring omission? One omission so freaking enormous that its absence is a national disgrace?

I spotted it right away. 

There's no Donald J. Trump Appreciation Day. 

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On 6/27/2020 at 6:38 PM, Steam Flyer said:
On 6/27/2020 at 11:44 AM, mikewof said:

Nailed it.

Politicians aren't any kind of panacea. They're our low-level employees, empowered to do what we tell them, and that's limited to a political arena, which is can be powerful, but is more often impotent.

There are millions of protesters doing more than talk ... they're walking, screaming, getting gassed, they're voting, writing, waving signs, talking to television cameras, streaming videos, hanging juries, voting indictments on grand juries.

This is how things change. The USA is as vibrant with action as we've ever been. Change keeps coming.

 

This is the one that matters. If they had made a habit out of voting earlier, things would not be where they are to have all the protests 'n shit

- DSK

I'm not sure I completely agree.  It all comes down to the quality of the candidates.  And we've had total and complete shit for almost as long as I can remember - especially congress.  So just voting accomplishes nothing unless those voters also demand accountability and are willing to punish the politician when it doesn't happen and demand that they work for the We the People and not the corporate cronies and banks.  I have not seen that happen on any sort of broad scale since..... like...... never. 

So yeah, vote all you want, but nothing is changing unless the candidates themselves change.  And as long as we keep rewarding politicians for being greedy scumbags, don't expect your vote to make one scintilla of difference. 

Sorry for the pessimism, but I just don't think voting on it's own for the sake of voting does fuck all.  If you can't be bothered to actually to take the time and effort to understand the issues and the candidates like @shaggy, who advocates simply voting for the letter after the name - then we will remain on our long slow slide to the bottom.  

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Just now, Burning Man said:

I'm not sure I completely agree.  It all comes down to the quality of the candidates.  And we've had total and complete shit for almost as long as I can remember - especially congress.  So just voting accomplishes nothing unless those voters also demand accountability and are willing to punish the politician when it doesn't happen and demand that they work for the We the People and not the corporate cronies and banks.  I have not seen that happen on any sort of broad scale since..... like...... never. 

So yeah, vote all you want, but nothing is changing unless the candidates themselves change.  And as long as we keep rewarding politicians for being greedy scumbags, don't expect your vote to make one scintilla of difference. 

Sorry for the pessimism, but I just don't think voting on it's own for the sake of voting does fuck all.  If you can't be bothered to actually to take the time and effort to understand the issues and the candidates like @shaggy, who advocates simply voting for the letter after the name - then we will remain on our long slow slide to the bottom.  

So, run for congress then.

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37 minutes ago, Jules said:
2 hours ago, mikewof said:

They encompass a lot of cultures and heritages, but do you notice one glaring omission in all of that? One monstrous, glaring omission? One omission so freaking enormous that its absence is a national disgrace?

I spotted it right away. 

There's no Donald J. Trump Appreciation Day. 

And there never will be, inshallah

- DSK

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On 6/27/2020 at 6:58 PM, frenchie said:

The idea behind intervening aimed at younger folks, is: they're future parents. 

Someone with a college degree is (a) less likely to have a kid out of wedlock and (b) more likely to be a good parent.

I'm fine with that.  I never said it had to be an "either/or" proposition.  But focusing on the HS and college age kid while doing almost nothing for the beginning of the spectrum is like trying to prevent beach erosion by moving a grain of sand at a time using a tweezer.  

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On 6/27/2020 at 9:47 PM, frenchie said:

"if voting could change the system, it would be illegal"

- graffitti, montreal, circa mid-80's.

 

Sadly true.

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17 hours ago, frenchie said:

Them AND the DA. 

It's not just "poorly trained" police that are the problem  -  it's also the DAs who allow (hell, support) the results of that "poor training".

Go on twitter, do a search for #copslie.  Yesterday, public defenders started using that hashtag for their stories of cops lying in courtrooms. 

Patterns emerge:

  • Even when they prove a cop's lying, there's no guarantee the DA drops the charges;  
  • there's no guarantee the DA won't put that cop on the stand in the future;  
  • but it's pretty much guaranteed the DA won't prosecute the lying cop for perjury, and
  • it's absolutely guaranteed they won't mention, next time they put that cop on the stand, that the cop's a proven liar.

Seriously, browse the stories for an hour.  It's a wake-up.

You're thinking way too shallow, IMO.  I think you were much more correct, 9 hours earlier: this isn't a problem that can be fixed by reform or improvements to training. 

The whole system needs a radical re-design.  Structural, gut, renovation: not a coat of paint.

I don't want anyone to have to live with "better trained" enforcers of a system designed to oppress.  I want that system replaced one designed to create actual justice.

Ending the War on Drugs would be a good start.  Most of the fucked LE infrastructure that's in place is a direct result of that horribly failed policy.

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7 minutes ago, Burning Man said:
On 6/27/2020 at 9:38 PM, Steam Flyer said:

.....   This is the one that matters. If they had made a habit out of voting earlier, things would not be where they are to have all the protests 'n shit

 

I'm not sure I completely agree.  It all comes down to the quality of the candidates.  And we've had total and complete shit for almost as long as I can remember - especially congress.  So just voting accomplishes nothing unless those voters also demand accountability and are willing to punish the politician when it doesn't happen and demand that they work for the We the People and not the corporate cronies and banks.  I have not seen that happen on any sort of broad scale since..... like...... never. 

So yeah, vote all you want, but nothing is changing unless the candidates themselves change.  And as long as we keep rewarding politicians for being greedy scumbags, don't expect your vote to make one scintilla of difference. 

Sorry for the pessimism, but I just don't think voting on it's own for the sake of voting does fuck all.  If you can't be bothered to actually to take the time and effort to understand the issues and the candidates like @shaggy, who advocates simply voting for the letter after the name - then we will remain on our long slow slide to the bottom.  

Ah, sorry... I thought it was kind of assumed that urging people to vote for the range of offices, local and national, sort of included informing oneself about the candidates and their most likely courses.

I apologize for causing you discontent and confusion.

- DSK

 

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10 minutes ago, Burning Man said:
  On 6/27/2020 at 9:47 PM, frenchie said:

"if voting could change the system, it would be illegal"

- graffitti, montreal, circa mid-80's.

 

Sadly true.

You mean like Brexit?  Or the 19th Amendment?  

Just because somebody spray paints something, doesn't make it true.

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26 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Ah, sorry... I thought it was kind of assumed that urging people to vote for the range of offices, local and national, sort of included informing oneself about the candidates and their most likely courses.

I apologize for causing you discontent and confusion.

- DSK

 

You would think so, but the stark reality is that we are FAR FAR from being able to make that ASSumption.  And there is nothing that tells me that is changing anytime soon.

Sorry for your confusion.

 

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20 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

Just because somebody spray paints something, doesn't make it true.

Agreed.  But in this case, it is not far off being an empirical fact.  

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Voting is simple, really.

any R is pretty much a “nope” as while they are not necessarily white supremacist fascists, they are ok with white supremacy and fascism.

from there a quick read of party platforms can help you.

what takes me awhile is all of the ballot measures. I find that looking at who paid for/endorsed it is a reliable indicator of its a POS or worth voting yes for. 

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8 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Voting is simple, really.

any R is pretty much a “nope” as while they are not necessarily white supremacist fascists, they are ok with white supremacy and fascism.

from there a quick read of party platforms can help you.

what takes me awhile is all of the ballot measures. I find that looking at who paid for/endorsed it is a reliable indicator of its a POS or worth voting yes for. 

I'll put you down in the "votes only for the letter sheeple" column along with shags.  Lazy cunt.  

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16 minutes ago, Burning Man said:
38 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

Just because somebody spray paints something, doesn't make it true.

Agreed.  But in this case, it is not far off being an empirical fact.  

Disagree

For example, unhappiness with the police could in many many cases have been forestalled by voting for mayor, county commissioner(s), superintendant, and/or sheriff (after taking the effort to be informed about the candidates, of course).

- DSK

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1 minute ago, Steam Flyer said:

Disagree

For example, unhappiness with the police could in many many cases have been forestalled by voting for mayor, county commissioner(s), superintendant, and/or sheriff (after taking the effort to be informed about the candidates, of course).

- DSK

Or you could be like r'zr here and just save all that time and effort and vote for the letter.  Good to go, no thought needed or desired.

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12 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

Or you could be like r'zr here and just save all that time and effort and vote for the letter.  Good to go, no thought needed or desired.

Well, looking at what the letter "R" behind the name has stood for over the past 20+ years, it's a good starting point.

If you want less rights, less legal protection for workers, more pollution, less honesty in gov't, higher debt with the majority of public benefit going to the 1%, then you should vote for the "R." If you do not want those things, vote for somebody who does not have an (R) after their name.

That's actually quite a well-informed voting decision.

- DSK

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3 hours ago, mikewof said:

We have a lot of those, from National/Federal to state ...

  1. Martin Luther King Day
  2. Holocaust Memorial Day
  3. World Religion Day
  4. Black History Month
  5. National Freedom Day
  6. Susan B. Anthony Day
  7. Women's Day
  8. Social Justice Day
  9. Cesar Chavez Day
  10. National Women's History Month
  11. Genocide Awareness Month
  12. Day of Silence
  13. Yom Hashoah
  14. Press Freedom Day
  15. Cinco De Mayo
  16. Memorial Day
  17. Cultural Diversity Day
  18. Jewish American Heritage Month
  19. Asian Pacific Heritage Month
  20. LGBTQ+ Pride Month
  21. Race Unity Day
  22. Anniversay of Legalization of Same Sex Marriage in the USA
  23. Refugee Day
  24. Americans with Disabilities Act Day
  25. Day of World's Indigenous Peoples
  26. Day of Remembrance of the Salve Trade and Abolition
  27. Women's Equality Day
  28. Senior Citizen Day
  29. Day of Charity
  30. Neighbor Day (that's mine, btw, remember it, 3/11)
  31. Labor Day
  32. Constitution Day and Citizenship Day
  33. National Hispanic Heritage Month
  34. Bi- Visibility Day
  35. Day of Charity
  36. National Disability Employment Awareness Month
  37. Day of Non-Violence
  38. Coming Out Day
  39. Indigenous People's - Native American Day
  40. Day for the Eradication of Poverty
  41. National American Indian Heritage Month
  42. Transgender Day of Remembrance
  43. Day for Tolerance
  44. Thanksgiving Day
  45. International Day of Person's with Disabilities
  46. AIDS Day
  47. Human Rights Day
  48. Bill of Rights Day
  49. Wounded Knee Day

They encompass a lot of cultures and heritages, but do you notice one glaring omission in all of that? One monstrous, glaring omission? One omission so freaking enormous that its absence is a national disgrace?

A national apology to the descendants of those enslaved? A national apology to all who's ancestors were stolen and sold?

 

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38 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

Or you could be like r'zr here and just save all that time and effort and vote for the letter.  Good to go, no thought needed or desired.

Imagine! (asshole)

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40 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

I'll put you down in the "votes only for the letter sheeple" column along with shags.  Lazy cunt.  

Such bullshit.

 

Oh, sorry, that's right, you think GOPers in the modern incarnation are still "good people"

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35 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

A national apology to the descendants of those enslaved? A national apology to all who's ancestors were stolen and sold?

 

Already done.

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17 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Such bullshit.

 

Oh, sorry, that's right, you think GOPers in the modern incarnation are still "good people"

No, as a whole - they are utter shit, especially at the national level.  Hence why I started the BTBD theme.  But I refuse to believe that there are not some individuals out there, especially at a state and local level who are all bad and should be tarred with your broad R = Bad brush.  Just like I have no issue voting for a Dem if their policies marry up to my views better than the R.  

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57 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

A national apology to the descendants of those enslaved? A national apology to all who's ancestors were stolen and sold?

 

Nope, we have several days of recognition for that.

But we don't have a day honoring our country's many.Muslims who have given their lives in service to the USA.

To be fair, we don't riot against them like Cronulla or lock them up on Nauru and Manus, the way you Aussies do. But we have a horrible history with our War on Terror where we victimized many innocent Muslims, and we need some recognition of how we fucked up with that.

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25 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

No, as a whole - they are utter shit, especially at the national level.  Hence why I started the BTBD theme.  But I refuse to believe that there are not some individuals out there, especially at a state and local level who are all bad and should be tarred with your broad R = Bad brush.  Just like I have no issue voting for a Dem if their policies marry up to my views better than the R.  

As a long-time lefty, I can affirm that as a rule, lefties are just as intolerant -- albeit in different ways -- than the righties.

Righties tend to think all lefty thought is bad, lefties tend to think all righty stuff is bad. In a way, we're all just slight variations of the same banana split.

For instance now, the idea of lefties protecting our nation's history, warts and all, that doesn't fly. And good luck trying to convince a righty that Black lives matter more than "all lives" because it's Black lives that are being snuffed out by a fundamentally racist collection of institutions.

Neither lefties nor righties tend to put forth the effort to understand nuance. Life is a giant version of Poltical Anarchy, us against them. Better get used to it, JBSF.

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14 minutes ago, mikewof said:

Nope, we have several days of recognition for that.

Cite?

But we don't have a day honoring our country's many.Muslims who have given their lives in service to the USA.

 

That's worse than slavery and stealing and selling their children?

I'm talking about a national apology, given by the President on behalf of the various governments of the USA

like this

 

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2 hours ago, Burning Man said:

Ending the War on Drugs would be a good start.  Most of the fucked LE infrastructure that's in place is a direct result of that horribly failed policy.

Why do we have a War on Drugs?

When we end it, what will we use to replace it?

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18 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

That's worse than slavery and stealing and selling their children?

I'm talking about a national apology, given by the President on behalf of the various governments of the USA

like this

 

Australia: We apologize for an the fucked up shit that we did to you Native Peoples.

Native Peoples: Awesome! We're just going to take back some of our more valuable stuff then, not that we don't appreciate the rock, but we're thinking coasts.

Australia: Deepest apologies, but we have a phone call we have to take. Jim Saleam, would you mind taking over for a bit?

 

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15 minutes ago, mikewof said:

Australia: We apologize for all the fucked up shit that we did to you Native Peoples.

It's a start on the long road to reconciliation.

Canada had done the same.

I'm simply pointing out that before the USA can even begin to heal the Black/white divide, a national Apology from all governments, local, State and federal has to be made. On the same day with the same wording. By the President.

The Federal Government does this on all governments behalf.

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1 hour ago, Burning Man said:

No, as a whole - they are utter shit, especially at the national level.  Hence why I started the BTBD theme.  But I refuse to believe that there are not some individuals out there, especially at a state and local level who are all bad and should be tarred with your broad R = Bad brush.  Just like I have no issue voting for a Dem if their policies marry up to my views better than the R.  

I only vote for ones in my district. Given trends in Republican policy, I have tended to vote for fewer and fewer, last few cycles I have only voted for ones personally known to me. There may be plenty of non-Trumpublican Republicans in Iowa or Wyoming or somewhere, but I don't cast votes for/against them. Only the ones in my states and county.

Of the last two decent ones that I would vote for, one died and one retired.

- DSK

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I can find this draft resolution.

https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=93059465

On Tuesday, the U.S. House of Representatives issued an unprecedented apology to black Americans for the institution of slavery, and the subsequent Jim Crow laws that for years discriminated against blacks as second-class citizens in American society.

Rep. Steve Cohen, a Democrat from Tennessee, drafted the resolution. Cohen explains the apology's long journey for Congressional approval and the significance of its timing.

 

Transcript: Rep. Steve Cohen (D-TN) Introduces U.S. Apology for Slavery, Jim Crow

July 29, 2008

 
 
 

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and Mr. Chairman. It is with pride that I introduce this resolution with 120 co-sponsors from both sides of the aisle. It is with pride that I serve as a member of this institution, in this building that was built with slave labor, and for which the new Visitors Gallery will be known as Emancipation Hall. It was a gentleman from this side of the aisle, the party of Lincoln, Representative Zach Wamp from my state, and this side of the aisle, Representative Jesse Jackson Jr., who eloquently spoke to a subcommittee of which I'm a member, urging the remembrance and recognition of the work of the slaves who helped construct this magnificent capitol building and have the entryway named Emancipation Hall.

This country had an institution of slavery for 246 years and followed it with Jim Crow laws that denied people equal opportunity under the law. There was segregation in the south and other places in this country, at least through the year 1965 when civil rights laws were passed. There were separate water fountains for people, marked white and colored, there were restaurants, there were separate hotels, there were job opportunities that were not available to African-Americans. There were theaters that were segregated.

It's hard to imagine, in 2008, that such a society existed and was sanctioned by law, that the laws of the nation provided for segregation and enforced slave fugitive slave laws. In fact, the history of slavery goes not just through the Emancipation Proclamation and the 13th, 14th, and 15th amendments to our constitution, but as so eloquently written, just yesterday, in "The Baltimore Sun" in an editorial by Mr. Leonard Pitts Jr., that slavery existed up until about World War II, but it was a form of slavery where people were bought and sold for debts, it was slavery by another name. In a book called Slavery By Another Name by Douglass Blackman, a correspondent for the Wall Street Journal, when he talked about a convict leasing system in the south where in poor black men were routinely snatched up and tried on false petty or nonexistent charges by compliant courts, assessed some fine they could not afford, and then put into the servitude of an individual who bought them. This system continued up until World War II.

The fact is, slavery and Jim Crow are stains upon what is the greatest nation on the face of the earth and the greatest government ever conceived by man. But when we conceived this government and said all men were created equal we didn't in fact make all men equal, nor did we make women equal. We have worked to form a more perfect union, and part of forming a more perfect union is laws, and part of it is such as resolutions like we have before us today where we face up to our mistakes and we apologize, as anyone should apologize for things that were done in the past that were wrong. And we begin a dialogue that will hopefully lead us to a better understanding of where we are in America today and why certain conditions exist.

In 1997, President Clinton talked to the nation about the problem this country had with race. And he wanted a national dialogue. He considered an apology for slavery. I happened to run into President Clinton at that time, at the Amtrak station here in Washington and discussed with him having an apology for Jim Crow as well as slavery. I encompassed that in a letter dated July 2, 1997 that as a state Senator in Tennessee I wrote to President Clinton. In that letter, I urged him to have a slavery apology and a Jim Crow apology and to mark it on the 30th Anniversary of the Assassination of Dr. Martin Luther King, and that event tragically took place in April of 1968 in my city and that the appropriate time for President Clinton to have that apology would be on that 30th anniversary.

In going through my papers as I was elected to congress, I found this letter and I thought about it and I said to myself, you're a member of congress, you don't need to wait on a response from the President of the United States, which my friend, the president's office, failed to make a response. I can take action myself. So I introduced the resolution in February of 2007 with 120 sponsors joining me as time went on. It is important on this day that we admit our error, that we apologize. I've been in this body and voted with the rest of the body on unanimous voice vote to encourage, this past year, the Japanese Government to apologize for its use of Chinese women as "comfort women" during the war. And not a voice was raised questioning that resolution which passed unanimously on us calling on a foreign country to apologize for its use of "comfort women." Twenty years ago this congress passed a bill apologizing for the internment of Japanese citizens during World War II. In fact, subsequent to the consideration of this resolution, the distinguished lady from California, Ms. Matsui, has a resolution recognizing and celebrating the 20th anniversary of the passage of that bill.

This Congress did the right thing in apologizing for the imprisonment of Japanese-Americans during World War II and in encouraging the Japanese Government to apologize for the use of "comfort women." But the fact that this government has not apologized to its own citizens, African-Americans, for the institution of slavery and for the Jim Crow laws that followed and accepted that fact and encouraged changes in our dialogue and understanding in the actions of this country to rectify that is certainly a mistake. And today we rectify that mistake. This is a symbolic resolution but hopefully it will begin a dialogue where people will open their hearts and their minds to the problems that face this country, from racism that exists in this country on both sides and which must end if we're to go forward as the country that we were created to be and which we are destined to be. So it is with great honor that I speak on this resolution and urge the members of this body to pass this historic resolution, recognize our errors, but also recognize the greatness of this country, because only a great country can recognize and admit its mistakes and then travel forth to create indeed a more perfect union that works to bring people of all races, religions and creeds together in unity as Americans part of the United States of America. Mr. Speaker, I thank you for the time and I urge my colleagues to vote unanimously to pass this resolution today. Thank you.

but I can't find any reference that the resolution was ratified by congress or any speech by the President televised 

I

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1 hour ago, Burning Man said:

No, as a whole - they are utter shit, especially at the national level.  Hence why I started the BTBD theme.  But I refuse to believe that there are not some individuals out there, especially at a state and local level who are all bad and should be tarred with your broad R = Bad brush.  Just like I have no issue voting for a Dem if their policies marry up to my views better than the R.  

Sorry, if you’re still an R voter, you may not be a racist, but you’ve got no problem with racism. (Sexism, homophobia, etc)

I’ve got no time for that.

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41 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

I only vote for ones in my district. Given trends in Republican policy, I have tended to vote for fewer and fewer, last few cycles I have only voted for ones personally known to me. There may be plenty of non-Trumpublican Republicans in Iowa or Wyoming or somewhere, but I don't cast votes for/against them. Only the ones in my states and county.

Of the last two decent ones that I would vote for, one died and one retired.

- DSK

I wouldn’t care if they were the reincarnation of Dave Durenburger. If they sign on as a Republican, no vote from me.

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