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Obviously police activity wrt any group has to be measured against crime by that group not against that group's percentage of the population. Why do you suppose BLM always uses percentage of population?

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Oh, good grief.  Is THAT why we're talking past one another?  "Systemic"  -  look it up in a dictionary  -  just means that it's a quality of a system, as opposed an individual component of the s

Cops could go a long way in improving their citizen interaction experience, which is always associated with something bad , traffic tickets on up. Our town and country has a very large number of LOE’s

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9 minutes ago, Dog said:

Obviously police activity wrt any group has to be measured against crime by that group not against that group's percentage of the population. Why do you suppose BLM always uses percentage of population?

Personally I was more afraid of the Italians until little don brought everyone together.  I feel safe again.

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8 minutes ago, Movable Ballast said:

Please, enlighten me on proportional statistics… Remember you have to apply it to all groups... 

I didn't make up some bullshit stat, you did.  Go ahead and find your support for the assertion you made.

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14 minutes ago, Movable Ballast said:

Awww, no primer... Just hot air... 

You could just admit you pulled that stat out of your ass.

Or, you could provide supporting evidence and gloat over proving him wrong.

Your response will be telling.

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@moveable ballast  and @BravoBravo 

must have gone the same Reich-schule of Truthiness as the second ranking US House GOPPER. 

They cannot even grasp the concept of good faith exchanges of ideas. 

 https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/08/30/ady-barkan-scalise-twitter-video/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=wp_politics

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On 8/28/2020 at 4:28 AM, Sol Rosenberg said:

Are they?

Of course they are.  Who here is saying or implying they are not?  

Maybe if we just start thinking of people as human beings instead of "black folk, white folk, hispanic, asian", and whatever other label you want to come up with - things might start getting better.  Because if we took away the ability to stigmatize someone based on skin color, we might actually get to the point where they are looked at as simple human beings like ourselves.  But when you continue to make distinctions based on arbitrary genetic or cultural factors like skin color, sex, ethnicity, etc - those distinctions always lead to an US vs them mentality.  Sadly it's human nature to be competitive for scarce resources.  Take away that distinction and maybe we'll all start looking at and judging a person's character instead.  Now.... where have I heard that before???

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7 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

But when you continue to make distinctions based on arbitrary genetic or cultural factors like skin color, sex, ethnicity, etc - those distinctions always lead to an US vs them mentality. 

:lol: Where Jeffreaux declares the entire Republican Party belief system to be bullshit.

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On 8/28/2020 at 5:02 PM, Movable Ballast said:

Of course they are, would you expect anyone to say they are not? That's why it's a stupid question. 

The facts of the matter are that while horrible. Police actions against unarmed black men are down 50% in the last 4 years and police actions against unarmed whites is actually up! They are the facts. So where is the inequality?... 

https://thesocietypages.org/toolbox/police-killing-of-blacks/?fbclid=IwAR2LPaZfICe5KAEsVZ_LyOdMByeh7bpl-NcWxvWqZvXpwMFW9E0Ne_EXl8U

101160600_701899427313997_1522089521544429568_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=fyifI4bGIvYAX-nFBg-&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-1.xx&oh=70113652854499a84da6edf92174a8ed&oe=5F7073AA

It may be a stupid question to you, but opinion is not monolithic and controlled by your views or any individuals. People here pinch off dehumanizing turds all the time, so he question is not asked without cause, nor is it the first time the topic has been brought up. I recall it being asked of the people who were certain that Trayvon Martin was a thug. Despite never meeting him, nor ever being able to, folks her know that he was a thug, and based on what? We know one thing about him for sure: he was black. There are arguments about whether his killing was homicide. I asked the question because I do not know how some people here would answer it, though non of the people in whom I had such doubts were willing to tell us how they viewed the issue. 
 

Not sure why this didn’t post earlier but it was still in my feed when I brought it up, so there it is....

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11 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

:lol: Where Jeffreaux declares the entire Republican Party belief system to be bullshit.

I declared that a loooong time ago.  BTBD.

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28 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

Of course they are.  Who here is saying or implying they are not?  

Maybe if we just start thinking of people as human beings instead of "black folk, white folk, hispanic, asian", and whatever other label you want to come up with - things might start getting better.  Because if we took away the ability to stigmatize someone based on skin color, we might actually get to the point where they are looked at as simple human beings like ourselves.  But when you continue to make distinctions based on arbitrary genetic or cultural factors like skin color, sex, ethnicity, etc - those distinctions always lead to an US vs them mentality.  Sadly it's human nature to be competitive for scarce resources.  Take away that distinction and maybe we'll all start looking at and judging a person's character instead.  Now.... where have I heard that before???

Probably all those times you wrote about racism no longer existing in the US?

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4 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

It may be a stupid question to you, but opinion is not monolithic and controlled by your views or any individuals. People here pinch off dehumanizing turds all the time, so he question is not asked without cause, nor is it the first time the topic has been brought up. I recall it being asked of the people who were certain that Trayvon Martin was a thug. Despite never meeting him, nor ever being able to, folks her know that he was a thug, and based on what? We know one thing about him for sure: he was black. There are arguments about whether his killing was homicide. I asked the question because I do not know how some people here would answer it, though non of the people in whom I had such doubts were willing to tell us how they viewed the issue. 
 

Not sure why this didn’t post earlier but it was still in my feed when I brought it up, so there it is....

There were no right or wrong sides in the Trayvon Martin incident. Both were wrong and one ended up dead... However the problem of jumping to conclusions before the facts are known is also an equal opportunity divider. The media has been way to quick to wade into what is and what isn't before the facts are know. Because a man commits a crime it doesn't make him any less human. Who thinks like that? No one I know... 

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3 minutes ago, Movable Ballast said:

There were no right or wrong sides in the Trayvon Martin incident. Both were wrong and one ended up dead... However the problem of jumping to conclusions before the facts are known is also an equal opportunity divider. The media has been way to quick to wade into what is and what isn't before the facts are know. Because a man commits a crime it doesn't make him any less human. Who thinks like that? No one I know... 

There were those in that thread that knew enough about him to know that he was a thug, and someone responded to word games about the term “homicide” by asking if he was human. When people play around those margins long enough, that question is going to come up. 

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2 hours ago, Movable Ballast said:

Of course they are, they also disproportionately commit more crime. Nearly half of all crime is committed by the 16% that is black.

And in Nazi Germany, Jews disproportionately committed more crimes.  We really need to get rid of these criminals.  Maybe we could put them in camps or something.

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18 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

It may be a stupid question to you, but opinion is not monolithic and controlled by your views or any individuals. People here pinch off dehumanizing turds all the time, so he question is not asked without cause, nor is it the first time the topic has been brought up. I recall it being asked of the people who were certain that Trayvon Martin was a thug. Despite never meeting him, nor ever being able to, folks her know that he was a thug, and based on what? We know one thing about him for sure: he was black. There are arguments about whether his killing was homicide. I asked the question because I do not know how some people here would answer it, though non of the people in whom I had such doubts were willing to tell us how they viewed the issue. 
 

Not sure why this didn’t post earlier but it was still in my feed when I brought it up, so there it is....

I remember some said Trayvon Martin was an innocent child returning from buying some candy and that Zimmerman was the monster despite never having met him.

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4 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

There were those in that thread that knew enough about him to know that he was a thug, and someone responded to word games about the term “homicide” by asking if he was human. When people play around those margins long enough, that question is going to come up. 

Then that is really sad... 

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49 minutes ago, Movable Ballast said:

Lazy response... How does ones view of various races equate to any particular race being non-human? Nobody is saying except you guys... 

Lazy? Jeff wrote extensively for years how there is no racism in the US all the while so many were flooding this board with Obama rants.  I need a translator for the rest of your post.

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1 minute ago, perioecus said:

You used a source to justify a claim that in fact contradicted the claim.  Then you did it again with a different claim.  You're welcome, dummy.

Bullshit. 

You should read the entire thread, Further I answered that when you brought it up a few posts back. If you are to stupid to read the entire thread I got nothing for you... 

Please tell me if you can, What was my original claim that you speak of... 

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1 minute ago, perioecus said:

Why would I go through this thread to read all of your nauseating comments when I can look at this single page for proof? Dum Dum

Just go back far enough to know what you're talking about.

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On 8/9/2020 at 3:18 PM, mikewof said:

Hi Everyone,

Regardless your take on BLM or politics, would you consider signing the following petition for Jamarion Robinson? It's on the Whitehouse.gov website.

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/justice-jamarion-robinson-0

Regardless our opinions about Trump, about pro-BLM and about anti-BLM, Jamarion Robinson deserves a second official look. Here is some background of his case, he needed a social worker, not heavily armed assassins with flash grenades and semi-automatic weapons ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Jamarion_Robinson

Thank you ... it needs 100,000 within 30 days to move up to analysis.

Hi Everyone,

 

Thank you all for your support with this, the supporters for this hit 100,000 signatures this morning. https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/justice-jamarion-robinson-0

So now, an official response from Congress about the Jamarion Robinson case. It may just be a single line on a letter saying "We're looking into it, now please don't do any more of those petitions."

And that letter gets framed, and it waits for the next letter when we all ask again, and then again, until someone in Washington D.C. tells us how a bunch of U.S. Marshalls and local cops could have pumped that many bullets into a young American who wasn't even the person for whom they were looking, and took off their body cameras before they went in there.

Jamarion isn't just some local police problem, he isn't just some metropolitan police problem, he isn't just some county sheriff's problem, he isn't just some State enforcement problem. Jamarion is a problem with the U.S. Marshalls. And this doesn't just concern the people of East Point, or just the people of Georgia, it concerns every American.

The blood of Jamarion Robinson is on the hands of the United States Marshall Service, the U.S. Department of Justice, the U.S. Federal Government, and the Administration of Donald Trump.

If Trump doesn't fully expose the violent fuck up of his government in the death of Jamarion Robinson, then there is no possible way that any lefty will trust him enough to vote for him, and he will lose for certain, because there are more lefties in this country who vote than righties who vote.

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2 hours ago, Movable Ballast said:

Then that is really sad... 

It’s pathetic, but not surprising. I would expect it from some of the folks here (at around happy hour on a weekend night). 
 

There’s a method to my madness. My hypothesis is that we all (on the forum and in society in general) have more beliefs in common than not. If we can all agree that black people are human... people... persons, then it isn’t hard for us to agree that black people born in the US are entitled to 14th Amendment protection, and all that big umbrella covers. 
 

That should also be a slam dunk, yet look at the Birther thread. We have much work to do if we wish to leave behind a better world than we inherited. 

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5 minutes ago, DustyDreamer said:

That is a real stretch for a disturbingly large chunk of the US population. 

I don’t know that it is, if you take the time to ask the hard question. I like to ask it. Let people think about it a bit. There’s a lot of context there. Much to reckon with, in our past and present. 

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15 minutes ago, Movable Ballast said:

Define "disturbingly large" I personally don't know one person who thinks this way. How many do you know? 

Well, we can start with members of my own family. Then there's my neighbors here in California. Whole swaths of the south (although I grew up partly in Canada my family is from the south). I suppose if I tried to count, just people I personally know, it would be dozens. But this is of course more complex - if you asked them point blank "do you think Black people are people?" of course they'd say yes. But probe a bit farther and you find that they do not believe that all people are equal and that in fact they believe white people are superior. They are, at their core, white supremacists. As my mother told me, trying to discourage me from hanging with a particular classmate, "they aren't capable of the same kind of intelligence as whites" and things to this effect. They fundamentally do not believe black people are the "same kind" of humans as white people. To me, this is at the core of the racism in this country and until it goes away we will never have justice and equality.  

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26 minutes ago, DustyDreamer said:

Well, we can start with members of my own family. Then there's my neighbors here in California. Whole swaths of the south (although I grew up partly in Canada my family is from the south). I suppose if I tried to count, just people I personally know, it would be dozens. But this is of course more complex - if you asked them point blank "do you think Black people are people?" of course they'd say yes. But probe a bit farther and you find that they do not believe that all people are equal and that in fact they believe white people are superior. They are, at their core, white supremacists. As my mother told me, trying to discourage me from hanging with a particular classmate, "they aren't capable of the same kind of intelligence as whites" and things to this effect. They fundamentally do not believe black people are the "same kind" of humans as white people. To me, this is at the core of the racism in this country and until it goes away we will never have justice and equality.  

It's kind of like the people who will laugh at Joe Biden for pointing out that poor kids can be just as smart. People who defend cops shooting unarmed black people. People who argue that every upper level job that goes to a black person means that job was stolen from a white person.

Example- there is an SA'er here who was arguing with me over Affirmative Action (for the record, I do not like Affirmative Action but it is a workable method quantify equal opportunity) and repeatedly gave his opinion that it was taking places (college, jobs) away from whites who "earned" it. So I posted links to all the black astronauts and asked if he thought every one of them had stolen the job from a white astronaut. I then listed their incredibly impressive accomplishments and their sacrifices (a depressing number of casualties). He went away mad and -still- snarks at me from time to time.

I'm sure he's pretty nice guy most ways. But unfortunately has a bug in his head where he cannot see a person with black skin as a person who is deserving of equal consideration to that given a person with white skin.

We cannot go forward this way. America has always had higher ideals than this, and unfortunately we have too often fallen short. To be honest, I don't believe we're on the threshold of ending racism etc etc. But if we slide backwards, it will be a really long time... if ever... we reach the point we're at now, again.

- DSK

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48 minutes ago, DustyDreamer said:

Well, we can start with members of my own family. Then there's my neighbors here in California. Whole swaths of the south (although I grew up partly in Canada my family is from the south). I suppose if I tried to count, just people I personally know, it would be dozens. But this is of course more complex - if you asked them point blank "do you think Black people are people?" of course they'd say yes. But probe a bit farther and you find that they do not believe that all people are equal and that in fact they believe white people are superior. They are, at their core, white supremacists. As my mother told me, trying to discourage me from hanging with a particular classmate, "they aren't capable of the same kind of intelligence as whites" and things to this effect. They fundamentally do not believe black people are the "same kind" of humans as white people. To me, this is at the core of the racism in this country and until it goes away we will never have justice and equality.  

 

25 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

It's kind of like the people who will laugh at Joe Biden for pointing out that poor kids can be just as smart. People who defend cops shooting unarmed black people. People who argue that every upper level job that goes to a black person means that job was stolen from a white person.

Example- there is an SA'er here who was arguing with me over Affirmative Action (for the record, I do not like Affirmative Action but it is a workable method quantify equal opportunity) and repeatedly gave his opinion that it was taking places (college, jobs) away from whites who "earned" it. So I posted links to all the black astronauts and asked if he thought every one of them had stolen the job from a white astronaut. I then listed their incredibly impressive accomplishments and their sacrifices (a depressing number of casualties). He went away mad and -still- snarks at me from time to time.

I'm sure he's pretty nice guy most ways. But unfortunately has a bug in his head where he cannot see a person with black skin as a person who is deserving of equal consideration to that given a person with white skin.

We cannot go forward this way. America has always had higher ideals than this, and unfortunately we have too often fallen short. To be honest, I don't believe we're on the threshold of ending racism etc etc. But if we slide backwards, it will be a really long time... if ever... we reach the point we're at now, again.

- DSK

So no one actually... OK got it. 

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3 hours ago, d'ranger said:

Probably all those times you wrote about racism no longer existing in the US?

You must be thinking of someone else, because I have never said that.  I said that "systemic or institutional" racism is either non-existant or barely exists anymore.

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3 hours ago, d'ranger said:

Lazy? Jeff wrote extensively for years how there is no racism in the US all the while so many were flooding this board with Obama rants.  

BS!  You know that's not true.  

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2 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

We cannot go forward this way. America has always had higher ideals than this, and unfortunately we have too often fallen short. To be honest, I don't believe we're on the threshold of ending racism etc etc. But if we slide backwards, it will be a really long time... if ever... we reach the point we're at now, again.

100% agree. But I believe we are at the crossroads of a great awakening, and a reckoning of sorts. White people created this problem and until they recognize this and accept this, we cannot meaningfully move forward. This is not a time for incremental change and I'm very hopeful about what might come out of a Biden/Harris presidency. But it's still going to take some serious systemic change and education for us to leave the Confederacy behind once and for all. 

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7 minutes ago, justsomeguy! said:
9 minutes ago, DustyDreamer said:

I'm very hopeful about what might come out of a Biden/Harris presidency.

Nothing will change. Sorry.

Oh, things can change

Have hope!

Just don't expect too much change to take deep root, too fast.

- DSK

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1 minute ago, DustyDreamer said:

It's convenient and comfortable to absolve yourself of responsibility in this way, but it's not the reality and even a moment's consideration should make that clear. 

Why do you feel I'm absolving myself of responsibility?

Why do you feel I'm even an American?

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Another ugly death of a Black person at the hands of the police

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/08/31/lafayette-hurricane-laura-shelter-protests/

"Earlier this month, another incident unfolded in Lafayette, in the heart of Louisiana’s Cajun country. On the night of Aug. 21, six police officers arrived at a Circle K gas station in response to “a disturbance involving a person armed with a knife,” the Lafayette Daily Advertiser reported.

In the parking lot, they found Trayford Pellerin, a 31-year-old Black man, and tried to apprehend him. But Pellerin kept walking away with a knife, a bystander told the newspaper. Officers trailed him for about half a mile before they used a Taser and then shot him 11 times.

Pellerin died in the hospital, and all six officers were placed on leave amid an investigation by state authorities."

Actually he tried to enter a gas station, and he was shot then. But maybe another Taser? Maybe talking to him? Pepper spray?? There's a lot of non-lethal stuff available to get in a 1/2 mile walk

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10 minutes ago, Zonker said:

Another ugly death of a Black person at the hands of the police

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/08/31/lafayette-hurricane-laura-shelter-protests/

"Earlier this month, another incident unfolded in Lafayette, in the heart of Louisiana’s Cajun country. On the night of Aug. 21, six police officers arrived at a Circle K gas station in response to “a disturbance involving a person armed with a knife,” the Lafayette Daily Advertiser reported.

In the parking lot, they found Trayford Pellerin, a 31-year-old Black man, and tried to apprehend him. But Pellerin kept walking away with a knife, a bystander told the newspaper. Officers trailed him for about half a mile before they used a Taser and then shot him 11 times.

Pellerin died in the hospital, and all six officers were placed on leave amid an investigation by state authorities."

Actually he tried to enter a gas station, and he was shot then. But maybe another Taser? Maybe talking to him? Pepper spray?? There's a lot of non-lethal stuff available to get in a 1/2 mile walk

I assume if you're tased with a knife in your hand, you start jerking uncontrollably, so now it looks like your attacking with the knife?

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On 8/26/2020 at 2:17 AM, mikewof said:

That's not an error.

I reject the idea of systemic racism because systems are nearly impossible to overhaul. Institutional racism can be corrected on a case-by-case basis. We can fix the way the police are funded, fix the way teachers are trained, fix the way railroad crossing guards are chosen, fix the property tax is assessed for both owners and for renters, we can fix the public utilities are handled, and the way hospitals are funded, the way food is sold, the way industrial waste is dispersed.

Institutions can be fixed piecemeal. Systems require overhauls.

Mike, you are digressing from the talking points.  It must be systemic so there HAS to be an overhaul - open your eyes!  Don’t you CARE?!

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2 hours ago, Sean said:

 

 

What the FUCK is he talking about? The useless cunt is completely bereft of even the ability to verbalise a single thought.

How did he get even one vote? And how many drooling mindless mouth breathing tossers voted for this fuckstick?

Dear God, roll on November.     

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37 minutes ago, Venom said:

Nope.

 

OK venom, as a community service can you please translate what your Dear Leader intended to portray in the clip Sean posted? 

7.59 billion people would appreciate it very much. 

 

 

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44 minutes ago, shaggybaxter said:

OK venom, as a community service can you please translate what your Dear Leader intended to portray in the clip Sean posted? 

I didn't vote for him.

But it seems he was saying that the cops “dropped the ball”, using a similar analogy with the sport of golf. 

Could they have wrestled him down or were they too afraid? Perhaps did not have the balls for a street fight (they did not look fit)?  It's hard to believe that they had no tasers? 

Shot him how many times? Must have been petrified with fear commit such an overkill.

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5 hours ago, Rok Dog said:

Mike, you are digressing from the talking points.  It must be systemic so there HAS to be an overhaul - open your eyes!  Don’t you CARE?!

Yeah, I know. A few others have given me shit here about that.

Public-funded Institutions have different problems of racism, sexism and ageism. They're all fixable, because our tax dollars fund them, we control their operation, down to what kind of paperclips they buy, if necessary.

One simple one is the property tax line item for police departments. From Federal tax down to county, property owners get the deductions and the acknowledgement from the police, for the property tax that they pay for the home in which they live. They don't get it for their investment properties. But the tenants who live in those investment properties pay those property taxes (at a higher, unsubsidized rate) without the police departments recognizing them as the tax-owners. So resources tend not to be allocated to areas with high rental rates, but rather high ownership rates. That problem can be fixed with a tax code adjustment, and it doesn't need to decreases total taxed revenue. The homeowners with single properties have no change, the homeowners with investment properties see their primary residence tax benefit decrease, while their investment properties benefits increase a bit, which allows the tenants to subsidized less of the total. To the police departments, the renters are then identical to the owners, with direct control over their funding.

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12 hours ago, Raz'r said:

Which is good enough.

It's only good enough for you because you don't have to fear for your life from the police, or fear having your child beat up or killed by some uniformed psychopath reliving his grade-school bullying.

For a few tens of millions of Americans, it's not good enough.

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5 minutes ago, mikewof said:

It's only good enough for you because you don't have to fear for your life from the police, or fear having your child beat up or killed by some uniformed psychopath reliving his grade-school bullying.

For a few tens of millions of Americans, it's not good enough.

You must be responding to someone else as your response makes absolutely no sense in relation to my post.

If you want a candidate "better than" Biden, you're going to be disappointed. Go ahead and vote for Vermin Supreme.

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2 hours ago, Raz'r said:

You must be responding to someone else as your response makes absolutely no sense in relation to my post.

If you want a candidate "better than" Biden, you're going to be disappointed. Go ahead and vote for Vermin Supreme.

Nope.

The OP suggested that simply ousting Trump won't change our current deficiency of social justice.

You wrote that getting rid of Trump is "good enough." Which it isn't. The problem of Americans getting gunned down and beaten and choked to death has to be addressed with more than just presidential words from the correct candidate. This has happened through Trump's term, through Obama's terms, through Shrub's terms, through Clinton's terms and all the way back through our history.

I didn't write one word about anyone being "better than Biden," you just made that up and put it in quotes for some reason. This thing ends with a successful outcome of the election for many of those who don't have to worry about family members being killed by police in broad daylight. But for the rest; "meet the new boss, same as the old boss."

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1 hour ago, MR.CLEAN said:

they don't look rampagey

Well sure, not now. But what if the cops arrest a few protesters for standing too close to the curb, then choke out a few, then shoot one after a bystander kills a couple and walks away without notice? What about then?

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Kayleigh McEnany Counters Jacob Blake Family Statement That Trump Admin Hasn’t Reached Out

White House press secretary Kayleigh McEnany said Monday the Trump administration is “efforting outreach” to the family of Jacob Blake, the Black man who was shot seven time in the back by police in Kenosha, Wis.

Her statement on “Fox & Friends” came three days after Jacob Blake Sr. told CNN Friday he has spoken with Democratic nominee Joe Biden in the wake of his son’s shooting, but he hasn’t heard anything from President Donald Trump.

"Efforting outreach"?  What the fuck does that mean?  He's the fucking President.  He can say "Get me the family of Jacob Blake, on the phone" and it will happen in minutes.  They are not hiding. 

Yet, he has no qualms about defending Kyle Rittenhouse.

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2 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

Kayleigh McEnany Counters Jacob Blake Family Statement That Trump Admin Hasn’t Reached Out

White House press secretary Kayleigh McEnany said Monday the Trump administration is “efforting outreach” to the family of Jacob Blake, the Black man who was shot seven time in the back by police in Kenosha, Wis.

Her statement on “Fox & Friends” came three days after Jacob Blake Sr. told CNN Friday he has spoken with Democratic nominee Joe Biden in the wake of his son’s shooting, but he hasn’t heard anything from President Donald Trump.

"Efforting outreach"?  What the fuck does that mean?  He's the fucking President.  He can say "Get me the family of Jacob Blake, on the phone, and it will happen in minutes.  They are not hiding. 

Yet, he has no qualms about defending Kyle Rittenhouse.

I heard that Mr. Blake said he didn't want to speak to Trump, and I don't blame him. Trump's people said they had talked to the Blake family's pastor, but Mr. Blake said they didn't have a family pastor. The usual.

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6 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

I heard that Mr. Blake said he didn't want to speak to Trump, and I don't blame him. Trump's people said they had talked to the Blake family's pastor, but Mr. Blake said they didn't have a family pastor. The usual.

I can't find anything to corroborate that.  I did find stories that President Trump declined to speak with the Blake family if a legal team were to monitor the call.

That sounds like an odd reason to decline offering condolences.  Is he afraid of what he might say?

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3 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

I can't find anything to corroborate that.  I did find stories that President Trump declined to speak with the Blake family if a legal team were to monitor the call.

That sounds like an odd reason to decline offering condolences.  Is he afraid of what he might say?

Why would a legal team need to monitor a conversation between the president and the father? 

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2 minutes ago, BravoBravo said:

Why would a legal team need to monitor a conversation between the president and the father? 

You could ask the Blake family.

Why would a President balk at offering condolences just because a lawyer would be listening?  That makes zero sense.

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8 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

You could ask the Blake family.

Why would a President balk at offering condolences just because a lawyer would be listening?  That makes zero sense.

Not sure why the POTUS would be offering condolences for  being arrested for a warrant, then  physically resisting and fleeing, reaching into a automobile.... maybe the pop was expecting condolences and the President was interested in another subject relating to the situation and following events 

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21 hours ago, DustyDreamer said:

100% agree. But I believe we are at the crossroads of a great awakening, and a reckoning of sorts. White people created this problem and until they recognize this and accept this, we cannot meaningfully move forward. This is not a time for incremental change and I'm very hopeful about what might come out of a Biden/Harris presidency. But it's still going to take some serious systemic change and education for us to leave the Confederacy behind once and for all. 

The white people who "created" the problem are long dead.  The few white racist rednecks left who cling to the Confederate flag have no more influence or power over how black America behaves, evolves or thrives (or doesn't) than my 4 month old puppy does.  In fact THE best thing we could do is simply ignore them, deny them the media oxygen they crave and they will overnight cease to be an issue.  

If you want an equal and just society - hold everyone accountable for their actions and stop coddling them for past injustices from 400 years ago.  And more importantly stop labeling them and hypenating them and making them different.  If you want everyone to be treated equally, then stop with the discriminating labels that drive everyone apart.  It's one of the few things that Pusstrailia and many Euro countries do right.  I personally think the gov't practice of attempting to put everyone into a ethnic/genetic/gender and cultural box is THE most racist thing we do.  If you want to address systemic racism, start there.  

#BlackDogsMatter

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8 hours ago, mikewof said:

Yeah, I know. A few others have given me shit here about that.

Public-funded Institutions have different problems of racism, sexism and ageism. They're all fixable, because our tax dollars fund them, we control their operation, down to what kind of paperclips they buy, if necessary.

One simple one is the property tax line item for police departments. From Federal tax down to county, property owners get the deductions and the acknowledgement from the police, for the property tax that they pay for the home in which they live. They don't get it for their investment properties. But the tenants who live in those investment properties pay those property taxes (at a higher, unsubsidized rate) without the police departments recognizing them as the tax-owners. So resources tend not to be allocated to areas with high rental rates, but rather high ownership rates. That problem can be fixed with a tax code adjustment, and it doesn't need to decreases total taxed revenue. The homeowners with single properties have no change, the homeowners with investment properties see their primary residence tax benefit decrease, while their investment properties benefits increase a bit, which allows the tenants to subsidized less of the total. To the police departments, the renters are then identical to the owners, with direct control over their funding.

Renters (tenants) don't pay property tax in any state I've ever lived in.  I own several rental properties and I can deduct the property tax on all of them.  Not sure what alternate universe you live in.

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12 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

The white people who "created" the problem are long dead.  The few white racist rednecks left who cling to the Confederate flag have no more influence or power over how black America behaves, evolves or thrives (or doesn't) than my 4 month old puppy does.  In fact THE best thing we could do is simply ignore them, deny them the media oxygen they crave and they will overnight cease to be an issue.  

If you want an equal and just society - hold everyone accountable for their actions and stop coddling them for past injustices from 400 years ago.  And more importantly stop labeling them and hypenating them and making them different.  If you want everyone to be treated equally, then stop with the discriminating labels that drive everyone apart.  It's one of the few things that Pusstrailia and many Euro countries do right.  I personally think the gov't practice of attempting to put everyone into a ethnic/genetic/gender and cultural box is THE most racist thing we do.  If you want to address systemic racism, start there.  

#BlackDogsMatter

This is the thing that so many of us have been bugging you about.

We know that your intentions are well-founded, we know you mean well. But the problem is not really those handful of "few white racist rednecks" but rather the institutions that lead to huge gaps in education, justice, and economies for people who have been not included in the mainstream efforts. And that institutional racism no longer even helps you all that much, it's starting to damage your life by a few small degrees that it destroys the lives of other Americans who experience this institutional racism regularly.

If you really want to make the jump JBSF, just forget about "racism" for a while as a human problem, and instead think of it as a problem in our schools, police departments, militaries, government offices and infrastructures that we can solve if we can sufficiently agree that there is a problem and that we can solve that problem.

 

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6 hours ago, mikewof said:

The OP suggested that simply ousting Trump won't change our current deficiency of social justice.

You wrote that getting rid of Trump is "good enough."

I have also written extensively here that Biden will not likely bring about any sort of radical change.  He will be nothing more than a caretaker that will staunch the bleeding and not much else.  For the short term, that IS good enough.  

But we need a huge overhaul.  COVID has exposed many many of our systemic flaws.  Joe is not that guy, nor is Kammie.  But soon, we will need someone who is willing to speak truth to power (and to $$) and tackle those radical systemic changes that are needed before this experiment in Democracy fails.  And it WILL fail on it's present trajectory, IMHO.

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2 minutes ago, mikewof said:

If you really want to make the jump JBSF, just forget about "racism" for a while as a human problem, and instead think of it as a problem in our schools, police departments, militaries, government offices and infrastructures that we can solve if we can sufficiently agree that there is a problem and that we can solve that problem.

I absolutely believe all of those institutions are flawed and need an overhaul.  But their flaws are not due to racism.  Glad I was able to clear that up for you finally.  

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6 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

Renters (tenants) don't pay property tax in any state I've ever lived in.  I own several rental properties and I can deduct the property tax on all of them.  Not sure what alternate universe you live in.

You're wrong. All renters pay property taxes. That's the whole point. And they pay property tax at a rate that is notably higher than people who live in their primary residence because investment properties are not subject to the same tax incentives.

When my tenant pays rent to me, I then use her rent to pay the mortgage, the HOA, the maintenance and the PROPERTY TAXES. I charge my tenant for those costs. (In my case, the costs are actually more than the rent that she pays, but that's the price I pay for wanting to hold onto that little condo. In most cases though, the landlord takes a small profit.)

The renters pay for the property taxes in the same way that you pay for your rental car's depreciation costs in your daily rental fees. It isn't itemized on your bill, but you pay for it.

Here JBSF, take a few minutes to correct your misunderstanding of this ... https://medium.com/@webhikerllc/how-the-poor-even-renters-get-screwed-by-property-taxes-5bf31832dfd4

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4 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

I absolutely believe all of those institutions are flawed and need an overhaul.  But their flaws are not due to racism.  Glad I was able to clear that up for you finally.  

The racism is built into the institutions! When we see that Black and Hispanic children receive substandard educations, that's racism. When we see that people of color are imprisoned for nonviolent crimes at a rate higher than Caucasians, that's racism. It goes down the list.

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1 minute ago, mikewof said:

You're wrong. All renters pay property taxes. That's the whole point. And they pay property tax at a rate that is notably higher than people who live in their primary residence because investment properties are not subject to the same tax incentives.

When my tenant pays rent to me, I then use her rent to pay the mortgage, the HOA, the maintenance and the PROPERTY TAXES. I charge my tenant for those costs. (In my case, the costs are actually more than the rent that she pays, but that's the price I pay for wanting to hold onto that little condo. In most cases though, the landlord takes a small profit.)

The renters pay for the property taxes in the same way that you pay for your rental car's depreciation costs in your daily rental fees. It isn't itemized on your bill, but you pay for it.

Here JBSF, take a few minutes to correct your misunderstanding of this ... https://medium.com/@webhikerllc/how-the-poor-even-renters-get-screwed-by-property-taxes-5bf31832dfd4

Notte exactley correcte Mickey and you no it.  Stoppe bendeng the truthe  foire argumenttes sake.                        :)

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1 minute ago, mikewof said:

The racism is built into the institutions! When we see that Black and Hispanic children receive substandard educations, that's racism. When we see that people of color are imprisoned for nonviolent crimes at a rate higher than Caucasians, that's racism. It goes down the list.

No, its economics.  Dirt poor white kids in deep rural arkansas and WV receive horribly substandard educations.  

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8 minutes ago, Snaggletooth said:

Notte exactley correcte Mickey and you no it.  Stoppe bendeng the truthe  foire argumenttes sake.                        :)

It's absolutely correct. Renters absolutely pay property tax.

Just because it's "laundered" through the landlord should not invalidate what they pay. If that condo or house did not have the renter, it would go fallow, the owner would sell or abandon it and there would be no property taxes drawn from it.

Here is proof, in a picture of how misguided JBSF and you are on this ... this house has been condemned. Is it a source of revenue to the City of Detroit or a cost?

e3bbe50f-d227-40b1-8d07-1349a1126685-620

Again, renters pay MORE property tax: https://medium.com/@webhikerllc/how-the-poor-even-renters-get-screwed-by-property-taxes-5bf31832dfd4

 

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6 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

No, its economics.  Dirt poor white kids in deep rural arkansas and WV receive horribly substandard educations.  

Aha, yes, it is economics. Now, why are so many people of color the victims of such bad economies relative to the "dirt poor white kids"?

Racism doesn't simply disappear just because we have found a way to roll it up into the problem of "economics." Shell games don't make the pea disappear, they hide it. That's the point.

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1 minute ago, mikewof said:

It's absolutely correct. Renters absolutely pay property tax.

Just because it's "laundered" through the landlord should not invalidate what they pay. If that condo or house did not have the renter, it would go fallow, the owner would sell or abandon it and there would be no property taxes drawn from it.

Here is proof, in a picture of how misguided JBSF and you are on this ... this house has been condemned. Is it a source of revenue to the City of Detroit or a cost?

e3bbe50f-d227-40b1-8d07-1349a1126685-620

 

Theire ist youre lie ritte theire.   Stoppe it Mickey.                           :)

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1 hour ago, Bus Driver said:

I can't find anything to corroborate that.  I did find stories that President Trump declined to speak with the Blake family if a legal team were to monitor the call.

That sounds like an odd reason to decline offering condolences.  Is he afraid of what he might say?

Quote

Asked about Kyle Rittenhouse, Trump said: “That was an interesting situation.”

He characterized Rittenhouse’s being chased by men after the fatal shooting as “trying to get away from them”, adding “they very violently attacked him.”

He also said that Rittenhouse, who has been charged with intentional homicide and other felonies “probably would’ve been killed” if he had not been armed.

Wisconsin’s governor, Tony Evers, wrote to Trump on Sunday asking him to reconsider his visit, as the city continues to grapple with the aftermath of those events.

Jacob Blake’s uncle, Justin Blake, told CNN that, “President Trump is a racist who stokes racial tensions. He has been stirring racial tensions since he got in the White House. Why, as Jacob’s uncle, would I want to talk to him? Our focus is on Jacob and healing the community.”

He said Jacob Blake’s father has told him he “has no interest in speaking with President Trump” and instead is focused on his son’s health and getting justice.

The Democratic presidential candidate, Joe Biden, and his vice-presidential pick, Kamala Harris, have both spoken extensively to the Blake family by telephone.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/aug/31/jacob-blake-trump-visit-kenosha

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1 minute ago, Snaggletooth said:

Thackes my frende.  Wisheng you a greate holidaye weekende!                                              :)

You too, Snaggy. You starting your weekend tomorrow?

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53 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

The white people who "created" the problem are long dead.  The few white racist rednecks left who cling to the Confederate flag have no more influence or power over how black America behaves, evolves or thrives (or doesn't) than my 4 month old puppy does.  In fact THE best thing we could do is simply ignore them, deny them the media oxygen they crave and they will overnight cease to be an issue.  

If you want an equal and just society - hold everyone accountable for their actions and stop coddling them for past injustices from 400 years ago.  And more importantly stop labeling them and hypenating them and making them different.  If you want everyone to be treated equally, then stop with the discriminating labels that drive everyone apart.  It's one of the few things that Pusstrailia and many Euro countries do right.  I personally think the gov't practice of attempting to put everyone into a ethnic/genetic/gender and cultural box is THE most racist thing we do.  If you want to address systemic racism, start there.  

#BlackDogsMatter

It sounds all so logical and at a very very surface level I don't entirely disagree with some of the sentiment. But the underlying complexities make the sweep-it-under-the-rug approach ineffective and unrealistic. Racism is here every single day and it's so deep-seated and normalized that most people not on the receiving end of it don't even see it. So they come up with answers like yours - that if we just ignore it will somehow disappear... or worse that we can ignore hundreds of years of racist history and that somehow it's what we are doing to address that long injustice that causes racism. That's pretty fucked up man. I know perfectly well that nothing I write here will convince you otherwise... but I would argue that this thinking, assuming you are white, is exactly a product of fear and shame and frankly the lack of courage to examine your own behavior and prejudices. You are far from alone in that.

Edit: I think it's worth being more clear. I'm saying that white people are almost universally racist if not always in overt ways. We (I am white) are a product of political and religious ideologies that force that idea of superiority on us and you cannot deny or ignore just how racist our upbringings have been. Until we accept that we have a problem this will never really go away.

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