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Shifting Baselines Lethal Weapons


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In the 1960s, fire hoses were turned on demonstrators in the South.

In 2020, "less" lethal rubber bullets are fired at demonstrators--including children--while no grave threat of violence is goin on.

This is totally utterly and completely unacceptable. And the shocking thing? Nobody is hardly making any hay about it. I don't care whether you are a Lib or a Con or a Com, you should be deeply troubled and outraged by this development.

Rubber bullets are not "nonlethal." They are dangerous life-threatening projectiles with a significant mortality percentage. This is not new information. It can never be considered acceptable to use them merely for "crowd control," which is what has been happening. So far, at least one young man has been killed this past week by a rubber bullet. A reporter lost an eye to one. Others have been severely injured.

Why is this current situation so troubling? Because we are indeed seeing the very dystopian madness that we have watched on the movies in the past decade. It is coming real.

What I find deeply troubling is that the president of the country encourages this. What I find even more troubling is that men down the line are willing to carry out these actions. The list of oversteps is long and growing longer. The involvement of the Pentagon in the low flying helicopter stunt is now being exposed (I'm a little perplexed--seems a pressure game from Pentagon to D.C. national guard--which is frankly out of the chain of command...)

Rubber bullets? For what? For chanting "I can't breathe!" after your new bedtime? ("We had to shoot them--they were violating the curfew."  Wait--WHAT???!!!!   Curfews are constitutionally restricted anyway. They really aren't a thing--they always get challenged in court--sometimes they stand sometimes not. They cannot be permanent and need a clear public safety purpose.)  The policing during this crisis is appalling. Maybe not most of it. But it takes very few bad actions to lead to death and severe questioning of hte legitimacy of the policing presence.

 

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2 minutes ago, fastyacht said:

In the 1960s, fire hoses were turned on demonstrators in the South.

In 2020, "less" lethal rubber bullets are fired at demonstrators--including children--while no grave threat of violence is goin on.

This is totally utterly and completely unacceptable. And the shocking thing? Nobody is hardly making any hay about it. I don't care whether you are a Lib or a Con or a Com, you should be deeply troubled and outraged by this development.

Rubber bullets are not "nonlethal." They are dangerous life-threatening projectiles with a significant mortality percentage. This is not new information. It can never be considered acceptable to use them merely for "crowd control," which is what has been happening. So far, at least one young man has been killed this past week by a rubber bullet. A reporter lost an eye to one. Others have been severely injured.

Why is this current situation so troubling? Because we are indeed seeing the very dystopian madness that we have watched on the movies in the past decade. It is coming real.

What I find deeply troubling is that the president of the country encourages this. What I find even more troubling is that men down the line are willing to carry out these actions. The list of oversteps is long and growing longer. The involvement of the Pentagon in the low flying helicopter stunt is now being exposed (I'm a little perplexed--seems a pressure game from Pentagon to D.C. national guard--which is frankly out of the chain of command...)

Rubber bullets? For what? For chanting "I can't breathe!" after your new bedtime? ("We had to shoot them--they were violating the curfew."  Wait--WHAT???!!!!   Curfews are constitutionally restricted anyway. They really aren't a thing--they always get challenged in court--sometimes they stand sometimes not. They cannot be permanent and need a clear public safety purpose.)  The policing during this crisis is appalling. Maybe not most of it. But it takes very few bad actions to lead to death and severe questioning of hte legitimacy of the policing presence.

 

NYT OpEd today about “Police Rioting”

Sums it up.

completely unacceptable. I hope Joe puts the right people in place that can direct the states on what policing is. It ain’t military, no matter what Jeffreaux says.

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1 minute ago, Raz'r said:

NYT OpEd today about “Police Rioting”

Sums it up.

completely unacceptable. I hope Joe puts the right people in place that can direct the states on what policing is. It ain’t military, no matter what Jeffreaux says.

At least a glimmer of good news for your hope:

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6 minutes ago, fastyacht said:

In the 1960s, fire hoses were turned on demonstrators in the South.

In 2020, "less" lethal rubber bullets are fired at demonstrators--including children--while no grave threat of violence is goin on.

This is totally utterly and completely unacceptable. And the shocking thing? Nobody is hardly making any hay about it. I don't care whether you are a Lib or a Con or a Com, you should be deeply troubled and outraged by this development.

Rubber bullets are not "nonlethal." They are dangerous life-threatening projectiles with a significant mortality percentage. This is not new information. It can never be considered acceptable to use them merely for "crowd control," which is what has been happening. So far, at least one young man has been killed this past week by a rubber bullet. A reporter lost an eye to one. Others have been severely injured.

Why is this current situation so troubling? Because we are indeed seeing the very dystopian madness that we have watched on the movies in the past decade. It is coming real.

What I find deeply troubling is that the president of the country encourages this. What I find even more troubling is that men down the line are willing to carry out these actions. The list of oversteps is long and growing longer. The involvement of the Pentagon in the low flying helicopter stunt is now being exposed (I'm a little perplexed--seems a pressure game from Pentagon to D.C. national guard--which is frankly out of the chain of command...)

Rubber bullets? For what? For chanting "I can't breathe!" after your new bedtime? ("We had to shoot them--they were violating the curfew."  Wait--WHAT???!!!!   Curfews are constitutionally restricted anyway. They really aren't a thing--they always get challenged in court--sometimes they stand sometimes not. They cannot be permanent and need a clear public safety purpose.)  The policing during this crisis is appalling. Maybe not most of it. But it takes very few bad actions to lead to death and severe questioning of hte legitimacy of the policing presence.

 

yeah...yeah... now for your ideas on how to regain control out of control mobs

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5 minutes ago, BravoBravo said:

yeah...yeah... now for your ideas on how to regain control out of control mobs

Apparently by building a high fence to contain the mob within the WH grounds.

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14 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

completely unacceptable. I hope Joe puts the right people in place that can direct the states on what policing is. It ain’t military, no matter what Jeffreaux says.

I'm sorry, I must have missed it..... What did Jeffreaux say?

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4 minutes ago, El Boracho said:
10 minutes ago, BravoBravo said:

yeah...yeah... now for your ideas on how to regain control out of control mobs

Apparently by building a high fence to contain the mob within the WH grounds.

These out of control mobs are certainly out of control. 

NYDB511-65_2020_050017.jpg

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10 minutes ago, BravoBravo said:

yeah...yeah... now for your ideas on how to regain control out of control mobs

Why do you want to "control" them.  They are burning the bitch down.  

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From Jamelle Bouie's NYT OpEd mentioned by Raz'r:

Quote

If you are trying to understand the function of policing in American society, then even a cursory glance at the history of the institution would point you in the direction of social control. And blackness in particular, the historian Nikhil Pal Singh argues, was a state of being that required “permanent supervision and sometimes direct domination.”

Sums it up pretty well. 

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26 minutes ago, BravoBravo said:

yeah...yeah... now for your ideas on how to regain control out of control mobs

Why do you feel the need for government to control the masses?    A more libertarian idea might be for the masses to control the government.  

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3 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

But not your bitch, are they bitch? You got your lazy ass contractor job and your home. When they come to burn your bitch, you’ll squeal like a pig.

You obviously still are clueless as to what "the bitch" is.  Not surprising though.....

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25 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

These out of control mobs are certainly out of control. 

NYDB511-65_2020_050017.jpg

Do you know why this video has not been shown 24 hours a day on MSM ?

 

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39 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

These out of control mobs are certainly out of control. 

NYDB511-65_2020_050017.jpg

 

f1.jpg

f2.jpg

f3.jpg

f4.jpgTube running up his back under his shirt to the squeeze bulb in his hand

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22 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

Indeed, it isn’t surprising nobody can determine what the bitch is from your drunken logorrhea

Plenty of people here have figured it out.  Keep reading..... maybe it will come to you some day.  

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Just now, AJ Oliver said:

@BravoBravo  lying slime alert 

The Reich has no problems with white nationalist false flag ops; not with out of control police 

WN/WS MO is not in the city...the very few of them are hunkered down in the boondocks someplace waiting for the apocalyptic mobs to come to them...white nationalist's of any meaning full scale or organization is a huge false flag....ANIFA on the other hand are   well educated, tech savvy and very smart  

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20 minutes ago, BravoBravo said:

f4.jpgTube running up his back under his shirt to the squeeze bulb in his hand

You are obviously correct. ANTIFA is very clever. The bigger scandal is that the liberal hoax that has corrupted the entire medical establishment with the COVID crap has now extended their reach into the ICU where this 75 year old man was taken to discreetly remove the fake blood equipment.

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Just now, El Boracho said:

You are obviously correct. ANTIFA is very clever. The bigger scandal is that the liberal hoax that has corrupted the entire medical establishment with the COVID crap has now extended their reach into the ICU where this 75 year old man was taken to discreetly remove the fake blood equipment.

and gaslight the story

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So I turned BB in again about his vicious post above  . . 

Doubt it will do any good, but one has to try. 

I wrote . . 

Blatant lies about a man who suffered life threatening injuries at the hands of Buffalo, NY police. 

This level of lying cruelty is too much, even for PA. 

A report on Gugino - 

Martin Gugino whom many of us know, is the 75yo shoved down and injured in Buffalo. Was in
serious condition in hospital but expected to recover. I'm told EVERY cop on hand walked right
past him as he bled on the pavement, tho' one cop tried to help him and was dragged away by
other cops.
I would say the cops FINALLY understand that an enormous mass of us, of every color, class, etc.,
are rising up to resist their monstrousness and impunity, and they are scared their power will be
a bit reduced, or more than a bit if we keep on demanding.
Be careful but clearly demand an end to the abuse.
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2 minutes ago, AJ Oliver said:

So I turned BB in again about his vicious post above  . . 

Doubt it will do any good, but one has to try. 

I wrote . . 

Blatant lies about a man who suffered life threatening injuries at the hands of Buffalo, NY police. 

This level of lying cruelty is too much, even for PA. 

What about 3 years of blatant lies about Russian Collusion , bring forth articles of impeachment without ONE substantive fact....what about the faceless character assassination of Justice Brent Kavanaugh ?

LOL....what is true is that you did a disservice to everyone of the students that ever sat in one of your classrooms !..and you probably cheated on your PHRF rating :lol:....and still could not win a race   

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@BravoBravo, you think like a racer.    If somebody else wins, you lost.  A plastic trophy isn’t more important then character.   Try thinking like a cruiser.   If the other guy has a great cruise, don’t belittle their experience.   Look for destination ideas for the day you have time off.   Look for tricks outfitting your boat.  If they’re having a bad cruise, maybe you can make it better.   I likely will never have the miles or experiences some in my class have.   Others have rebuilt boats all but lost to entropy.   It isn’t a competition.   I benefit from their accomplishments, even if I don’t want have the same goals.  

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5 hours ago, BravoBravo said:

Do you know why this video has not been shown 24 hours a day on MSM ?

getting your talking points from China ....

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Buffalo police officers charged with assault for shoving a 75-year-old protester

Quote

An investigation was launched after a local radio station released video of the incident involving Mr Gugino, which went viral and had more than 78 million views by midday Saturday.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-07/buffalo-police-officers-arraigned-protest-george-floyd/12330068

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3 hours ago, Mid said:

Buffalo police officers charged with assault for shoving a 75-year-old protester

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-07/buffalo-police-officers-arraigned-protest-george-floyd/12330068

 

3 hours ago, Raz'r said:

About fucking time. 

let's not leave out the part where hundreds of their colleagues turned up to cheer them, and block media cameras from photographing them, as they left the courthouse.  Or that every other member their "crowd control unit", quit the special unit, in solidarity with them. 

but sure... it's just a few bad apples.

and gee, I wonder why the protests are so out-of-proportion...

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  • 1 month later...
On 6/6/2020 at 12:11 PM, fastyacht said:

In the 1960s, fire hoses were turned on demonstrators in the South.

In 2020, "less" lethal rubber bullets are fired at demonstrators--including children--while no grave threat of violence is goin on.

This is totally utterly and completely unacceptable. And the shocking thing? Nobody is hardly making any hay about it. I don't care whether you are a Lib or a Con or a Com, you should be deeply troubled and outraged by this development.

At least a few nutjobs find it disquieting.

Homeland Security Acting Like 'An Occupying Army' Says Sen. Wyden, After Federal Agents Shoot Peaceful Portland Protester
 

Quote

 

Twenty-six-year-old Donavan LaBella was holding a speaker above his head across from the federal courthouse in downtown Portland when one of a group of camouflage-clad federal agents threw some sort of smoking, flashing canister at him. LaBella rolled the canister away from this feet, into an empty portion of the street, then held up the speaker again. Suddenly there was a loud bang, then some sort of impact munition (a.k.a. "firearm-delivered projectiles," such as rubber bullets or bean bags) flying through the air. Then LaBella falls to the ground. Other protesters come to his aid and drag him out of the street.

Video captured the whole horrifying incident.

"An American has been shot and sent to the hospital for apparently exercising his right of free speech," marveled Steven Strauss, a visiting professor at Princeton.

Donavan's mom, Desiree LaBella, told Oregon Public Broadcasting that her son had sustained skull and facial fractures and had to have facial reconstruction surgery. As of Sunday morning, he was responding to doctors and able to move his arms and legs.

...

What happened to Donovan LaBella demonstrates "the consequences of Donald Trump unilaterally dispatching fed'l law enforcement into U.S. cities," Sen. Ron Wyden (D-Ore.) tweeted on Sunday. "Trump & Homeland Security must now answer why fed'l officers are acting like an occupying army."

...

 

Donavan LaBella was wielding a speaker and this justified shooting a rubber bullet or beanbag or whatever at him? Why?

 

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1 hour ago, Cacoethesic Tom said:

At least a few nutjobs find it disquieting.

Homeland Security Acting Like 'An Occupying Army' Says Sen. Wyden, After Federal Agents Shoot Peaceful Portland Protester
 

Donavan LaBella was wielding a speaker and this justified shooting a rubber bullet or beanbag or whatever at him? Why?

 

How dare you ask the question. You are quite involved proposing guns and gun mayhem for every situation. These values, when acted upon, are your core values, Tom.

See how it works? Poorly, in most cases.

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43 minutes ago, badlatitude said:

LOL, neat trick getting all that blood to pool from your ear. Stoopid people will believe anything.

Everyone knows that Hollywood, including the special effects people, are a bunch of lefty pinko communists, but they are good at what they do. If they wanted to fake this elderly gentleman's injury (have to be careful with that 'elderly' stuff he is only three years older than me) they would have done it in a way not obvious to the righty nut-jobs.

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3 hours ago, Cacoethesic Tom said:

At least a few nutjobs find it disquieting.

Homeland Security Acting Like 'An Occupying Army' Says Sen. Wyden, After Federal Agents Shoot Peaceful Portland Protester
 

Donavan LaBella was wielding a speaker and this justified shooting a rubber bullet or beanbag or whatever at him? Why?

 

Hell, a journalist lost her eye, a week weeks back.  

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4 hours ago, Cacoethesic Tom said:

At least a few nutjobs find it disquieting.

Homeland Security Acting Like 'An Occupying Army' Says Sen. Wyden, After Federal Agents Shoot Peaceful Portland Protester
 

Donavan LaBella was wielding a speaker and this justified shooting a rubber bullet or beanbag or whatever at him? Why?

 

Because the society you advocate is here.

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Priorities are just so screwed up. Want to get to use those shields and armor? Deploy where most useful - domestic violence calls as there will be some angry mofo and most likely armed. Two cops just ambushed this week in S. Texas.  For protest? I mean what good is all that badass shit if you can't use it? amiright?

 

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2 hours ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

Everyone knows that Hollywood, including the special effects people, are a bunch of lefty pinko communists, but they are good at what they do. If they wanted to fake this elderly gentleman's injury (have to be careful with that 'elderly' stuff he is only three years older than me) they would have done it in a way not obvious to the righty nut-jobs.

They were so good they even fooled the doctors and nurses in the emergency room!

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5 minutes ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

The doctors and nurses were also in on it. Everyone knows they are a bunch of lefties too.

It really was good of the protester to let his skull be fractured for the cause.

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Here you can watch out of control police violence unfold  . .  scroll down. This is from Portland. 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/06/26/opinion/blm-protests-police-violence.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage&fbclid=IwAR17fSF0yKjZAlPHg4Y65khP9qd-1jMnFEqyE8dc4Vyj1q0Whg0XIwITITo

Same with Cleveland - the police started the violence. A kid from our town lost an eye . . 

https://www.cleveland.com/court-justice/2020/06/man-who-lost-eye-to-police-fired-bean-bag-round-during-clevelands-george-floyd-protests-i-did-not-deserve-this.html

Dunno why y'all are so surprised - the cops treated Occupy the same way - viciously. 

An analysis by media watchdog FAIR reveals that the MSM started taking the police violence more seriously 

only after journalists were attacked 

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9 hours ago, frenchie said:

"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth."

Well, I guess so . . . unless your name is John Lewis, or Albert Bigleow (sailor), or James Peck . . 

whose plan was to get punched in the mouth 

more than once 

they took it so the rest of us could be free 

New Orleans Freedom Riders and the fight for civil rights | Local ...

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8 hours ago, AJ Oliver said:

Well, I guess so . . . unless your name is John Lewis, or Albert Bigleow (sailor), or James Peck . . 

whose plan was to get punched in the mouth 

more than once 

they took it so the rest of us could be free 

New Orleans Freedom Riders and the fight for civil rights | Local ...

Interesting fellow. He was far ahead of his time, and was influenced by Quaker thought.

Quote

Sailing The Golden Rule[edit]

In February, 1958, Bigelow set sail for the Eniwetok Proving Ground, the Atomic Energy Commission's atmospheric test site in the Marshall Islands, in the Golden Rule, a 30-foot (9 m) ketch. He was accompanied by crew members James Peck, George Willoughby, William R. Huntington, and Orion Sherwood. The voyage had been deliberately and widely publicized, and while the Golden Rule was en route to Hawaii, the Atomic Energy Commission hastily issued a regulation banning US citizens from sailing into the Proving Grounds.[1][6]

When they arrived in Hawaii, the crew of the Golden Rule were issued a court summons, resulting in a temporary injunction against any attempt to sail to the test site. Bigelow chose to break the injunction on May 1, but the Golden Rule was intercepted by the US Coast Guard only 5 nautical miles (9 km) from Honolulu. A second attempt on June 4 was also unsuccessful - the crew were arrested, charged with contempt of court and sentenced to sixty days in jail.[1][6]

But while the Golden Rule was docked in Honolulu, Bigelow and crew had met Earle and Barbara Reynolds. Earle L. Reynolds was an anthropologist who had visited Hiroshima to study the effects of the atomic bomb on Japanese society. Hearing of the plight of the Golden Rule, Earle and Barbara were inspired to take their own nonviolent action, and later that year their yacht, the Phoenix of Hiroshima became the first vessel to enter a nuclear test zone in protest when they sailed sixty-five nautical miles into the test area at Bikini Atoll.[1] Earle was arrested and sentenced to six months in jail.[6]

In 1959, Bigelow published a book, Voyage of the Golden Rule[1] which documented his journey. Bigelow's story would go on to inspire fellow Quaker Marie Bohlen to suggest the use of a similar tactic to members of the Vancouver-based Don't Make a Wave Committee (later to become Greenpeace) in 1970.

Bigelow continued to take part in non-violent protests during the late 1950s and early 1960s, and was a participant in the Freedom Rides organized by the Congress on Racial Equality in 1961.[7]

 

My pop served his country in the Marshall Islands...to prep for nuclear activity, it turns out.

By the time WWII was over, my pop had developed many misgivings about the gun mentality.

Go get 'em, AJ.

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5 hours ago, jocal505 said:

Interesting fellow. He was far ahead of his time, and was influenced by Quaker thought.

Thanks for the kind words - pretty darn rare for PA !!  Ha ha

If you want more info on the Golden Rule & crew - here it is    https://www.friendsjournal.org/the-golden-rule-shall-sail-again/

I was part of the restoration of the GR from 2010 to 2015 or so,  

 and was honored to be among the crew of the first post-restore voyage - the thrill of a lifetime. 

If you think the project is worthwhile, they can always use support. 

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15 hours ago, AJ Oliver said:

Well, I guess so . . . unless your name is John Lewis, or Albert Bigleow (sailor), or James Peck . . 

whose plan was to get punched in the mouth 

more than once 

they took it so the rest of us could be free 

New Orleans Freedom Riders and the fight for civil rights | Local ...

Aye, good point.

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On 7/14/2020 at 8:00 AM, jocal505 said:
On 7/14/2020 at 6:22 AM, Cacoethesic Tom said:

At least a few nutjobs find it disquieting.

Homeland Security Acting Like 'An Occupying Army' Says Sen. Wyden, After Federal Agents Shoot Peaceful Portland Protester
 

Donavan LaBella was wielding a speaker and this justified shooting a rubber bullet or beanbag or whatever at him? Why?

 

How dare you ask the question. You are quite involved proposing guns and gun mayhem for every situation. These values, when acted upon, are your core values, Tom.

See how it works? Poorly, in most cases.

Every situation? I haven't shot you yet, nor even a stump near to you! :P

I don't think wielding a speaker is a threat at all, let alone one justifying shooting.

On 7/14/2020 at 10:58 AM, Raz'r said:
On 7/14/2020 at 6:22 AM, Cacoethesic Tom said:

At least a few nutjobs find it disquieting.

Homeland Security Acting Like 'An Occupying Army' Says Sen. Wyden, After Federal Agents Shoot Peaceful Portland Protester
 

Donavan LaBella was wielding a speaker and this justified shooting a rubber bullet or beanbag or whatever at him? Why?

 

Because the society you advocate is here.

MMA gossip as usual, I see.

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On 7/14/2020 at 1:41 PM, AJ Oliver said:

Here you can watch out of control police violence unfold  . .  scroll down. This is from Portland. 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/06/26/opinion/blm-protests-police-violence.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage&fbclid=IwAR17fSF0yKjZAlPHg4Y65khP9qd-1jMnFEqyE8dc4Vyj1q0Whg0XIwITITo

Same with Cleveland - the police started the violence. A kid from our town lost an eye . . 

https://www.cleveland.com/court-justice/2020/06/man-who-lost-eye-to-police-fired-bean-bag-round-during-clevelands-george-floyd-protests-i-did-not-deserve-this.html

Dunno why y'all are so surprised - the cops treated Occupy the same way - viciously. 

An analysis by media watchdog FAIR reveals that the MSM started taking the police violence more seriously 

only after journalists were attacked 

"The police started the violence."

I struggle with that statement.  If there is a protest in progress and the police have been told to break it up, what are their options?  Let's assume this protest is starting to get violent, with a couple cars on fire and storefronts starting to be smashed.  The police can ask the protestors to leave.  But it's highly likely the police will be ignored.

At this point, what are acceptable options for the police to break up the protests and "protect and serve" the people and property who aren't involved in protesting?

We can't tell them to protect and serve and then stop them from doing so.  They really are stuck in the middle.

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5 hours ago, Grrr... said:

"the police started the violence"

I struggle with that statement.  If there is a protest in progress and the police have been told to break it up, what are their options?  Let's assume this protest is starting to get violent, with a couple cars on fire and storefronts starting to be smashed.  The police can ask the protestors to leave.  But it's highly likely the police will be ignored.

Please look at the scroll down video above. If you "assume" that the Portland protest was "starting to get violent" you would be wrong. That is not what happened. The police started the violence. Please  . . watch it and tell us what you think 

Further, USAeans have a constitutional right to assemble peacefully. If the cops are "told to break it up" and do so, then both the person(s) who gave that order, as well as the cops who carried it out are breaking the law. 

And the Lafayette Sq violence ? totally on Trump and the cops/military

Police have been using illegal violence against protesters since the dawn of the republic. 

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