Jump to content

Tack in place with G/5?


Recommended Posts

Planning to glue a fibreglass piece to the underside of the deck.  Clamps will be difficult to use if at all.

So I'm thinking of laying some thickened epoxy to the flanged part to be glued to the underside, but leave a smallish area void of the thickened epoxy.

Then fill that with thickened G/5 and press into place for a few minutes.  That should work and sounds like an obvious solution, but I just want to know if anyone has tried it or sees the folly in doing this.

WEST isn't kidding when they say you have 3 minutes working time with G/5 and hardens in 5 minutes.

Link to post
Share on other sites

So here's a little trick for you ~ If 105/205 is too slow and G/5 is too fast , you can mix in a little G/5 (on ratio) , to your mixed 105/205 (on ratio) and it will speed it up.

 

This works for all the products - just have to remember to mix each one separately on ratio before adding to the other.

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, ScowVegas said:

So here's a little trick for you ~ If 105/205 is too slow and G/5 is too fast , you can mix in a little G/5 (on ratio) , to your mixed 105/205 (on ratio) and it will speed it up.

 

This works for all the products - just have to remember to mix each one separately on ratio before adding to the other.

 

Wasn't looking to speed up or slow down - just looking to tack the piece in place using discrete patch(es) of G/5  while the thickened epoxy cures.  Remember I'm trying to glue a piece to the underside of the deck - so fighting gravity.

But good to know the two are compatible so no possibility of contamination should they mix while placing the piece.  However I am not using 105 in this instance

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, El Boracho said:

Sometimes hot glue is a trick. Jus a dab in one tiny spot. Also a small self tapping screw.

Forgot about the hot glue. I already have G/5 and have used it to tack pieces in place on the frame.  Really nice stuff to work with, flows and fills gaps nicely - but very short working time.  But then again, that is what it is designed to do.

Not much working room for a self tapping screw

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hot glue and bundle of wooden sticks can work too. I've been bedding G-10 backing plates for the pulpit/pushpits, No way could I hold something for 5 minutes in that contorted space. Whatever works. Let us know about the G5.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I've done this with West Six10. It is thick enough that it will hold the piece in place by itself unless it is particularly heavy. I'd put some tape over it to keep it from sliding around while it gels, which might happen if it is warm. 

The traditional solution for this is to cut a flexible stick long enough that you can prop the piece in place with some flex in the stick. You may still have the problem with is sliding about. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Feisty! said:

Is this a backing plate for an exterior load ?

No.  It is the gutter frame for cockpit lockers I want to retrofit to the boat.   Minimal load if any but enough weight that Six10 is out

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, I've used 5-minute epoxy to tack things in place many times, wither in combination with other epoxy at the same time, or to hold it while I add fillets. Many variations. I would not mix it with other products unless I had lab work telling me the result was just as strong and water resistant.

Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, 12 metre said:

Planning to glue a fibreglass piece to the underside of the deck.  Clamps will be difficult to use if at all.

So I'm thinking of laying some thickened epoxy to the flanged part to be glued to the underside, but leave a smallish area void of the thickened epoxy.

Then fill that with thickened G/5 and press into place for a few minutes.  That should work and sounds like an obvious solution, but I just want to know if anyone has tried it or sees the folly in doing this.

WEST isn't kidding when they say you have 3 minutes working time with G/5 and hardens in 5 minutes.

I did exactly this a few days ago to mount some backing plates.     Then drilled the holes.   It was so easy I can’t imagine why I hadn’t done it before.

 

If a backing plate is your project as well,  one shortcoming with this was that one plate ended up with a disappointing amount of contact with the not quite flat underside of the deck.   I’ll probably knock it off and reattach it with a bunch of normal thickened epoxy next year.

 

on edit,  I see you are using both normal thickened epoxy and g5 in one spot to hold it.   You are smarter than me,  I think that’ll work great.

Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Feisty! said:

Is this a backing plate for an exterior load ?

Is that question to me? Yes, pulpit bases. After 45 years a little something extra is needed. The bolts run thru the hull/deck joint which is quite uneven leading to bent bolts. A small plate and a thick layer of filler will make it all beautiful.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Has anyone ever tried bagging something with a small shop vac?  Sure it's not the same as full vacuum pump but have wondered if it would be adequate for small odd sized things with thickened epoxy where you weren't concerned with clamping pressure as much as keeping the piece in place.  

The hot glue is my approach for alot of stuff pretty hard beat but if you aren't quick it can be a PITA with alot of cleanup.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, SASSAFRASS said:

Has anyone ever tried bagging something with a small shop vac?  Sure it's not the same as full vacuum pump but have wondered if it would be adequate for small odd sized things with thickened epoxy where you weren't concerned with clamping pressure as much as keeping the piece in place.  

The hot glue is my approach for alot of stuff pretty hard beat but if you aren't quick it can be a PITA with alot of cleanup.

Most shop vacs use the air flow to cool the motor, so no-go

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/22/2020 at 4:39 PM, 12 metre said:

Planning to glue a fibreglass piece to the underside of the deck.  Clamps will be difficult to use if at all.

So I'm thinking of laying some thickened epoxy to the flanged part to be glued to the underside, but leave a smallish area void of the thickened epoxy.

Then fill that with thickened G/5 and press into place for a few minutes.  That should work and sounds like an obvious solution, but I just want to know if anyone has tried it or sees the folly in doing this.

WEST isn't kidding when they say you have 3 minutes working time with G/5 and hardens in 5 minutes.

I added a big G10 plate to the top of my Elliott770 to distribute the loads between the winch and the keel turning block. I used thickened 105/206 in a "sausage" down the middle of my plate. while that was setting up I mixed up some G5 and put big globs in the corners and middles of the sides, then glushed it all to the cabintop. It was solid enough to remove my hands after about 3 minutes, and the epoxy cured overnight.

just make sure you've got plenty of drop cloth to catch the extra glush.

I think it was Vegas that recommended that the epoxies were compatible with each other so there'd be no problem with the technique.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, ryley said:

I added a big G10 plate to the top of my Elliott770 to distribute the loads between the winch and the keel turning block. I used thickened 105/206 in a "sausage" down the middle of my plate. while that was setting up I mixed up some G5 and put big globs in the corners and middles of the sides, then glushed it all to the cabintop. It was solid enough to remove my hands after about 3 minutes, and the epoxy cured overnight.

just make sure you've got plenty of drop cloth to catch the extra glush.

I think it was Vegas that recommended that the epoxies were compatible with each other so there'd be no problem with the technique.

West has stated that you can mix G/Flex with 105. They have similar curing times.

I’m surprised that the super fast cure G/5 doesn’t somehow mess with the much slower curing 105.

I don’t doubt Vegas, I’m surprised. 

At some point in time after System3 and MAS recommended mixing their fast & slow hardeners together to make a medium cure . West confirmed that it was fine to mix their hardeners together as well. This was in the 105 resin system. They do not mention it in any literature or even the Construction book to my recollection. 

We have a brand called BoteCote here in AU that has a small bottle of accelerator available. It’s used with their  regular 2:1 system. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

This is a technique I've used to hold backing plates in place while epoxy sets up.

Fit the plate in dry.  Hold it with tape or just a hand, depending on position, helpers, etc.  It won't make the mess trying to do this while it's covered in epoxy does.

With the plate held in position this way, drill the holes in the plate.  The existing holes the deck can serve as guides.  Just two holes in enough, you don't need to drill them all.

You don't need to drill all the way through, a good sized divot is enough to accurately recenter the drill.  This way a backer can be used to reduce tear out when drilling through.

Now put the epoxy on and use the bolts to hold it in place.  It won't fall, sag, or shift and the plate will be in the exact correct spot.  You can easily adjust the clamping pressure.

Use long enough bolts and non-nylock nuts so it easy to put the nuts on from the plate side by hand.

Put some grease, tefgel, or other stuff on the threads where they will be exposed to epoxy so they don't stick.

If the nuts don't touch the plate evenly around their circumference, then the plate isn't square to the bolts.  If you pay attention to this as you tighten the nuts and push the plate on, you can get it more square than just pressing it on tight would do.  You can put a considerable amount of thickened epoxy under one side the plate to change the angle.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/22/2020 at 9:38 PM, 12 metre said:

Wasn't looking to speed up or slow down - just looking to tack the piece in place using discrete patch(es) of G/5  while the thickened epoxy cures.  Remember I'm trying to glue a piece to the underside of the deck - so fighting gravity.

But good to know the two are compatible so no possibility of contamination should they mix while placing the piece.  However I am not using 105 in this instance

Ohhh G5 Melaglass - I thought you meant G/5 Gougeon 5 minute epoxy lol duh

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, ScowVegas said:

Ohhh G5 Melaglass - I thought you meant G/5 Gougeon 5 minute epoxy lol duh

 

No, I meant the G/5  5 minute epoxy.

My plan is to use thickened epoxy for the actual bond, but leave some of the surface uncovered then apply G/ to the uncovered areas and press into place for a few minutes while the G/5 hardens.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 3 weeks later...

on small jobs I use super glue to line up pieces of plastic then use the epoxy with chopped carbon fiber to hold broken stuff in place for the long run. worked on a mast head wind speed cup at a launch  lasted for years. did the same thing on a audi bumper plastic to aline everything I used clear shipping tape outside, then the super glue in the joints . then prepped the back and covered the cracks with chopped glass in epoxy. it works.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On June 23, 2020 at 2:02 PM, SASSAFRASS said:

Has anyone ever tried bagging something with a small shop vac?  Sure it's not the same as full vacuum pump but have wondered if it would be adequate for small odd sized things with thickened epoxy where you weren't concerned with clamping pressure as much as keeping the piece in place.  

The hot glue is my approach for alot of stuff pretty hard beat but if you aren't quick it can be a PITA with alot of cleanup.

Yes. It works well.  I put a small hole in the tubing to allow some air to flow through the shop vac.  It keeps the motor from getting too hot

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...