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Michigan's starting to tank.


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Not much changing.  Deaths per day has thankfully dropped to nearly nothing.  As expected a bit of a spike in new cases as things opened up but that appears to be dropping back down (we’ll to see this weekends number tomorrow though). Percentage of positive cases remains stable.  Available ventilators and ICU beds at minimum 20%. 
 

The facts/data/trends look very good.  They aren’t showing a ‘tanking’

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I do not see police departments ordered to stop enforcing basic law and order.  Asking the police to stand down during mass protests to prevent injuries and further unrest is a good idea.  Of course,

mid May in McLaren Port Huron Hospital  my wife had a bad chest pain WE were in the ER. The New Big Expanded one. 1/2 about 20 beds a whole section  NOT NEEDED closed down.  12 cars in the whole parki

It's not even research.  This is stuff I'm required to look at on a daily basis for a number of reasons. I also have to deal with the people coming in daily telling me this whole thing is a hoax.

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18 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Nope that's the dirty pox that we would have already gotten rid of if it wasn't for stupid fucking rednecks and the guy who learned to use gullible stupid fucking rednecks to his advantage so well.

Have you left your house?

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10 minutes ago, Rok Dog said:

Not much changing.  Deaths per day has thankfully dropped to nearly nothing.  As expected a bit of a spike in new cases as things opened up but that appears to be dropping back down (we’ll to see this weekends number tomorrow though). Percentage of positive cases remains stable.  Available ventilators and ICU beds at minimum 20%. 
 

The facts/data/trends look very good.  They aren’t showing a ‘tanking’

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Another lie from the Trumpalo dumbasses who can't read the graphs they cite

- DSK

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3 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Another lie from the Trumpalo dumbasses who can't read the graphs they cite

- DSK

He literally posts graphs showing the start of another rise, and says everything is fine.

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12 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Another lie from the Trumpalo dumbasses who can't read the graphs they cite

- DSK

You’ve shown that you don’t understand what a proper graph looks like.  

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9 hours ago, Grrr... said:

He literally posts graphs showing the start of another rise, and says everything is fine.

Small jump as things opening up - as expected.  Numbers dropping back down again already.   It’ll be up tomorrow to capture the weekend cases.  No real change here.

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9 hours ago, Grrr... said:

He literally posts graphs showing the start of another rise, and says everything is fine.

You, on the other hand, create a thread stating Michigan is “tanking” and it’s obvious you haven’t looked at the data.  Are you lying or just need help interpreting math and such?

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On 7/6/2020 at 3:35 PM, Irish River said:

He's dual citizen. Can't throw him out. I'm not going to report, I'll leave to our local Karen. 

That ain't Karen, that's self preservation.

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9 hours ago, Grrr... said:

He literally posts graphs showing the start of another rise, and says everything is fine.

Hey, leave him alone - there were barely more than 1000 dead in the past 2 days.

That's #Winning in anybodies book.

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1 minute ago, SloopJonB said:

Hey, leave him alone - there were barely more than 1000 dead in the past 2 days.

That's #Winning in anybodies book.

I'm not sure that's winning in antibodies book.

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7 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Hey, leave him alone - there were barely more than 1000 dead in the past 2 days.

That's #Winning in anybodies book.

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See, Rokhead looks at the last two data points and says "going down!"  A normal person looks at the last 1.5 months and sees the obvious upward trend.  And then realizes that we aren't even beginning to see the results of the July 4 weekend yet, and says "uh-oh".  This is what I'm coming to expect from the people who support the right like Bravo and Rok.  Somehow they literally can't read the data or willfully mis-interpret it repeatedly.  Then our friends like Wofsey bullshit about "there's no upward trend in Florida, you can't just take a snapshot of a small subset of data" (it was over a month of data, btw).  But that'd be news to the folks in Florida I bet.

Even scarier in Michigan, numerous Sheriffs have gone on record to say they will not be enforcing the executive order over wearing masks.  Every one of them who said this should be summarily fired, but they are being protected by the R politicians in their areas.

Politics is far more important than your health for the republicans.

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10 hours ago, Rok Dog said:

You’ve shown that you don’t understand what a proper graph looks like.  

It's pretty clear that the Trump cult is another Jonestown. Have you already drunk the Kool-Aid?

At some point, you will leave the cult. Do you have the mental strength to do so while still alive? Trump has been wrong about everything, fucked up everything, failed at everything. You say "Cases are going down! Deaths are going down!" then they are clearly not. Meanwhile, the countries that actually followed science are doing great economically, with businesses booming and literally less than 1/100th of the deaths that are occurring in the USA.

If you're determined to ride this flaming zeppelin all the way to the ground, enjoy yelling insults. It's the only reward you're going to get.

Smart people learn from their mistakes... actually, real smart people learn from the mistakes of others.

- DSK

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   16 hours ago,  Rok Dog said: 

You’ve shown that you don’t understand what a proper graph looks like.  

 

6 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

It's pretty clear that the Trump cult is another Jonestown. Have you already drunk the ----Clorox ?

At some point, you will leave the cult. Do you have the mental strength to do so while still alive? Trump has been wrong about everything, fucked up everything, failed at everything. You say "Cases are going down! Deaths are going down!" then they are clearly not. Meanwhile, the countries that actually followed science are doing great economically, with businesses booming and literally less than 1/100th of the deaths that are occurring in the USA.

If you're determined to ride this flaming zeppelin all the way to the ground, enjoy yelling insults. It's the only reward you're going to get.

Smart people learn from their mistakes... actually, real smart people learn from the mistakes of others.

- DSK

+1 with one fix.

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21 hours ago, Grrr... said:

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See, Rokhead looks at the last two data points and says "going down!"  A normal person looks at the last 1.5 months and sees the obvious upward trend.  And then realizes that we aren't even beginning to see the results of the July 4 weekend yet, and says "uh-oh".  This is what I'm coming to expect from the people who support the right like Bravo and Rok.  Somehow they literally can't read the data or willfully mis-interpret it repeatedly.  Then our friends like Wofsey bullshit about "there's no upward trend in Florida, you can't just take a snapshot of a small subset of data" (it was over a month of data, btw).  But that'd be news to the folks in Florida I bet.

Even scarier in Michigan, numerous Sheriffs have gone on record to say they will not be enforcing the executive order over wearing masks.  Every one of them who said this should be summarily fired, but they are being protected by the R politicians in their areas.

Politics is far more important than your health for the republicans.

Sheriffs ARE elected officials (politicians).
 

Data looking good.  Bump at reopening.  Death rate flat.  Positive case rate flat and dropping.  Percentage of available ICU and ventilators staying the same.  Looking pretty good.

wheres the “tanking”?

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1 hour ago, Rok Dog said:

Sheriffs ARE elected officials (politicians).
 

Data looking good.  Bump at reopening.  Death rate flat.  Positive case rate flat and dropping.  Percentage of available ICU and ventilators staying the same.  Looking pretty good.

wheres the “tanking”?

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Give it two weeks for the little bump to continue growing.  People like you aren't happy until it jumps out and slaps you in your face.  I wonder how Florida started.  Did it get to where it is overnight?

And talking about numbers like deaths that will clearly follow increases in infection with a couple week lag time is exactly what the people you are parroting do.  It's a non starter.

I offered to make wofsey a bet.  He slunk away like the coward he is.  You want to make one about where the numbers will be in two weeks in Michigan?

 

You are right about one thing - because I admit when I'm wrong.  Sheriffs are elected officials.  Whitmer should begin the court cases against them.

 

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2 minutes ago, Grrr... said:

You are right about one thing - because I admit when I'm wrong.  Sheriffs are elected officials.  Whitmer should begin the court cases against them.

Whitmer could flood their county with MSP and charge them with aggressively enforcing the masking requirements.  Wasn't the fine $500?  A few tickets and the general population will get the message.  With body cams, pretty easy case to prove.  

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1 hour ago, Cal20sailor said:

Whitmer could flood their county with MSP and charge them with aggressively enforcing the masking requirements.  Wasn't the fine $500?  A few tickets and the general population will get the message.  With body cams, pretty easy case to prove.  

The problem I have with this is that I don't want to see people who are out working getting nailed for $500 for forgetting to wear a mask.  This is a tough one to apply fairly.

Can you imagine the screaming and teeth nashing if a homeless guy got a ticket?  Or one of those "one mom with 10 kids" folks?

Having the balls to come right out and say you aren't going to follow the law though - that deserves the most severe consequences the state can dish out to the Sheriffs.  Those fuckers are supposed to protect and serve.  Not endanger due to stupidity.

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23 minutes ago, Grrr... said:

The problem I have with this is that I don't want to see people who are out working getting nailed for $500 for forgetting to wear a mask.  This is a tough one to apply fairly.

Can you imagine the screaming and teeth nashing if a homeless guy got a ticket?  Or one of those "one mom with 10 kids" folks?

Having the balls to come right out and say you aren't going to follow the law though - that deserves the most severe consequences the state can dish out to the Sheriffs.  Those fuckers are supposed to protect and serve.  Not endanger due to stupidity.

The law is written to allow a lot of discretion (below).  I would only issue tickets to those that were total assholes (MAGA hat is a tip off), not the airheads who just forgot to put one on.  

Willful violation of the order — by customers or businesses — is a misdemeanor that can bring a $500 fine, but no jail time. Suspension of a business license or liquor license is another potential penalty.

Agree with your feelings towards the non-compliant sheriffs.  

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8 minutes ago, Grrr... said:

The problem I have with this is that I don't want to see people who are out working getting nailed for $500 for forgetting to wear a mask.  This is a tough one to apply fairly.

Can you imagine the screaming and teeth nashing if a homeless guy got a ticket?  Or one of those "one mom with 10 kids" folks?

Having the balls to come right out and say you aren't going to follow the law though - that deserves the most severe consequences the state can dish out to the Sheriffs.  Those fuckers are supposed to protect and serve.  Not endanger due to stupidity.

I think the best enforcement would be that you get a warning and a free mask - the first time. Who you are gets entered in the system. The next time, if there is one, you get the fine.

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now
we got the cell text from the Lansing about the mask up order yesterday 7/13/2020. so state wide everyone with a cell phone is on notice about  face covering it's the law now. The "Businesses MUST refuse entry or service to those who do not wear a face covering" part will go over like a lead balloon 

Mask up Michigan

 

Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer on Tuesday 7/7/2020 called for a “national mask-up campaign,” saying it is necessary for everyone, even those in the White House, to wear masks to stem the spread of coronavirus as the number of cases surge across the U.S.

“It’s incumbent on every one of us to mask-up, from the White House, to the state house, everywhere in between,” Whitmer said. “We are seeing this play out across the country. We have to do our part to make sure that doesn’t happen.”

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26 minutes ago, DRIFTW00D said:
now
we got the cell text from the Lansing about the mask up order yesterday 7/13/2020. so state wide everyone with a cell phone is on notice about  face covering it's the law now. The "Businesses MUST refuse entry or service to those who do not wear a face covering" part will go over like a lead balloon 

Mask up Michigan

 

Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer on Tuesday 7/7/2020 called for a “national mask-up campaign,” saying it is necessary for everyone, even those in the White House, to wear masks to stem the spread of coronavirus as the number of cases surge across the U.S.

“It’s incumbent on every one of us to mask-up, from the White House, to the state house, everywhere in between,” Whitmer said. “We are seeing this play out across the country. We have to do our part to make sure that doesn’t happen.”

Yeah - emergency alert system over the cell phones is pretty cool, especially since I don't watch local TV stations any more.  My wife was happy to see it go out too.

She's making a hard push for being a valid VP candidate, but I don't see it happening.

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1 hour ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

I think the best enforcement would be that you get a warning and a free mask - the first time. Who you are gets entered in the system. The next time, if there is one, you get the fine.

Makes sense to me.

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4 hours ago, Rok Dog said:

Sheriffs ARE elected officials (politicians).
 

Data looking good.  Bump at reopening.  Death rate flat.  Positive case rate flat and dropping.  Percentage of available ICU and ventilators staying the same.  Looking pretty good.

wheres the “tanking”?

 

Hey Dog part 2 - if Michigan is doing so well, can you explain why we are backing up on opening things and now are instituting new policies?  Perhaps that reality will wake you up.  Or you'll make another excuse.  I'm sure the experts at the State Level are reacting to nothing and there is zero to worry about.

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3 minutes ago, Grrr... said:

Hey Dog part 2 - if Michigan is doing so well, can you explain why we are backing up on opening things and now are instituting new policies?  Perhaps that reality will wake you up.  Or you'll make another excuse.

Because science trumps bullshit in the real world?

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1 hour ago, Grrr... said:

The problem I have with this is that I don't want to see people who are out working getting nailed for $500 for forgetting to wear a mask.  This is a tough one to apply fairly.

Can you imagine the screaming and teeth nashing if a homeless guy got a ticket?  Or one of those "one mom with 10 kids" folks?

Having the balls to come right out and say you aren't going to follow the law though - that deserves the most severe consequences the state can dish out to the Sheriffs.  Those fuckers are supposed to protect and serve.  Not endanger due to stupidity.

Once you're used to wearing a mask, you don't forget it.

Do you forget to wear pants?

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22 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Once you're used to wearing a mask, you don't forget it.

Do you forget to wear pants?

Eh, I handle the incoming to our automotive plant.  I'd say out of 200 people at my gate, I see 20 a day (especially at lunch) who have lost, dropped, or forgotten their masks.  That's in an environment where it's required 24x7.  I bet a lot more people forget them when going into gas stations, etc.

I hate being overly punitive, and the opponents to mask wearing will have a field day with it.

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27 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

Hateful. Everything hurts. One good day plus one bad day equals bad result. Upwind with a side of upwind and upwind for dessert. 

Sounds like fun.  I always liked sleeping on the rail while pounding through waves.

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33 minutes ago, Grrr... said:

Sounds like fun.  I always liked sleeping on the rail while pounding through waves.

At least he's in warm water. You should try a Swiftsure Race sometime.

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1 hour ago, Ishmael said:

At least he's in warm water. You should try a Swiftsure Race sometime.

Ohhhh no.  I specifically buy my own boats so I don't have to sit on the rail anymore.  Had enough of that.  And trust me when I say that Trans Superior can get awfully cold, and the other Lakes are pretty bad in March.  Wetsuits help, but ice in your hair sucks.

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12 hours ago, Grrr... said:
16 hours ago, Rok Dog said:

Sheriffs ARE elected officials (politicians).
 

Data looking good.  Bump at reopening.  Death rate flat.  Positive case rate flat and dropping.  Percentage of available ICU and ventilators staying the same.  Looking pretty good.

wheres the “tanking”?

 

Hey Dog part 2 - if Michigan is doing so well, can you explain why we are backing up on opening things and now are instituting new policies?  Perhaps that reality will wake you up.  Or you'll make another excuse.  I'm sure the experts at the State Level are reacting to nothing and there is zero to worry about.

Think Rok Dog can read a graph?

Screen Shot 2020-07-14 at 10.35.54 PM.png

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9 hours ago, Grrr... said:

Ohhhh no.  I specifically buy my own boats so I don't have to sit on the rail anymore.  Had enough of that.  And trust me when I say that Trans Superior can get awfully cold, and the other Lakes are pretty bad in March.  Wetsuits help, but ice in your hair sucks.

I did Trans Superior last year. I hit the bunk in full gear and was still cold. 

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39 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

I did Trans Superior last year. I hit the bunk in full gear and was still cold. 

On a trans superior.  Had 40 sustained on the nose.  Storm jib and triple Reef and we were flying.  Crew came running from down below and puked into the wind on the high side.  Wind took it and plastered it all over the owner.

He yelled at the guy to do it on the low side.  Guy got to the low side and puked again.  Deck went green water, and somehow it ended up out the owners face again.

Best race ever.

when we got into Duluth, a Hobie 33 pulled in with poop marks all down the transom. .  Crew had gotten sick down below,so the non sick crew crapped off the stern rather than go down into the stench.

 

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52 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

I did Trans Superior last year. I hit the bunk in full gear and was still cold. 

Wait, a floridian did the trans-superior? Were you high when you signed up?

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On 7/13/2020 at 7:53 AM, Grrr... said:

Politics is far more important than your health for the republicans.

 

Indeed. There's a study of course - https://www.psychologicalscience.org/news/heres-why-some-people-are-not-wearing-masks-during-the-coronavirus-crisis.html

Excerpt -

There is some new research which suggests that Trump supporters are less likely to wear masks — and practice other preventative measures like social distancing.

Kaplan said that kind of groupthink can lead to bad choices like not wearing face masks during a pandemic.

“We find that when beliefs become shared by social groups and are part of how we identify that they are very difficult to change, even in the face of scientific evidence,” he said. “Sharing beliefs is one of the ways we bond with others, and the desire to bond with others is so strong that often it distorts the objective evaluation of information.”

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18 hours ago, Grrr... said:

Give it two weeks for the little bump to continue growing.  People like you aren't happy until it jumps out and slaps you in your face.  I wonder how Florida started.  Did it get to where it is overnight?

And talking about numbers like deaths that will clearly follow increases in infection with a couple week lag time is exactly what the people you are parroting do.  It's a non starter.

I offered to make wofsey a bet.  He slunk away like the coward he is.  You want to make one about where the numbers will be in two weeks in Michigan?

 

You are right about one thing - because I admit when I'm wrong.  Sheriffs are elected officials.  Whitmer should begin the court cases against them.

 

I won’t take a bet on COVID because there are too many unknowns.  Most likely there be more positive cases because the daily testing rate continues to increase and the state is opening up more and more.  The more rural and northern areas will get their ‘spikes’.  Death will probably remain close to where it is today unless older folks start getting out and about (hopefully they won’t).  
 

nothing tanking in Michigan yet.  The virus isn’t going away.   

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18 hours ago, Grrr... said:

Give it two weeks for the little bump to continue growing.  People like you aren't happy until it jumps out and slaps you in your face.  I wonder how Florida started.  Did it get to where it is overnight?

And talking about numbers like deaths that will clearly follow increases in infection with a couple week lag time is exactly what the people you are parroting do.  It's a non starter.

I offered to make wofsey a bet.  He slunk away like the coward he is.  You want to make one about where the numbers will be in two weeks in Michigan?

 

You are right about one thing - because I admit when I'm wrong.  Sheriffs are elected officials.  Whitmer should begin the court cases against them.

 

I don’t think Whitmer can sue Sheriffs.  They don’t work for her.  Wearing a mask isn’t a law.  She has control over the state police.  Shit,  the Feds can’t even win against states and cities regarding immigration related federal laws.   When you think about it - that’s probably a good thing (although letting rapists and murders walk away free and clear makes no sense to me).

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18 hours ago, Cal20sailor said:

Whitmer could flood their county with MSP and charge them with aggressively enforcing the masking requirements.  Wasn't the fine $500?  A few tickets and the general population will get the message.  With body cams, pretty easy case to prove.  

You think the state cops would do that?  I doubt it.  

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15 hours ago, Grrr... said:

Hey Dog part 2 - if Michigan is doing so well, can you explain why we are backing up on opening things and now are instituting new policies?  Perhaps that reality will wake you up.  Or you'll make another excuse.  I'm sure the experts at the State Level are reacting to nothing and there is zero to worry about.

Just looking at the data, man.  It is what it is.  

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14 hours ago, Grrr... said:

Eh, I handle the incoming to our automotive plant.  I'd say out of 200 people at my gate, I see 20 a day (especially at lunch) who have lost, dropped, or forgotten their masks.  That's in an environment where it's required 24x7.  I bet a lot more people forget them when going into gas stations, etc.

I hate being overly punitive, and the opponents to mask wearing will have a field day with it.

Are taking temps as well?

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1 hour ago, Sean said:

 

 

 

Indeed. There's a study of course - https://www.psychologicalscience.org/news/heres-why-some-people-are-not-wearing-masks-during-the-coronavirus-crisis.html

Excerpt -

There is some new research which suggests that Trump supporters are less likely to wear masks — and practice other preventative measures like social distancing.

Kaplan said that kind of groupthink can lead to bad choices like not wearing face masks during a pandemic.

“We find that when beliefs become shared by social groups and are part of how we identify that they are very difficult to change, even in the face of scientific evidence,” he said. “Sharing beliefs is one of the ways we bond with others, and the desire to bond with others is so strong that often it distorts the objective evaluation of information.”

And Dem supporters more likely to not practice social distancing, loot, destroy public property...

 

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6 hours ago, Grrr... said:

On a trans superior.  Had 40 sustained on the nose.  Storm jib and triple Reef and we were flying.  Crew came running from down below and puked into the wind on the high side.  Wind took it and plastered it all over the owner.

He yelled at the guy to do it on the low side.  Guy got to the low side and puked again.  Deck went green water, and somehow it ended up out the owners face again.

Best race ever.

when we got into Duluth, a Hobie 33 pulled in with poop marks all down the transom. .  Crew had gotten sick down below,so the non sick crew crapped off the stern rather than go down into the stench.

 

We saw more than that for one long minute or so...and much much less for way too long as well. In Duluth I learned the maxim that the race is such a pain in the ass that they can only run it every other year because it takes that long for people to forget how much it sucks. I really liked Duluth though, and the people are awesome. I’m already planning to do it next year. 
 

Compatible, unflappable crew is a key element which we lacked, but which was not fatal to the cause, thankfully. 
 

wasn’t high, I just really love sailing on the lakes. Superior is beautiful and I can wear more layers....  There’s also the overlap of the course with the first good sail I did with o’le Pappy Sol, delivering his ChiMac ride to Duluth, many decades ago. Those are literally some of my first memories. Going back was pretty cool.

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6 hours ago, Rok Dog said:

And Dem supporters more likely to not practice social distancing, loot, destroy public property...

 

Make unfounded claims much?  You can point to riots and protests - social unrest to prove a point - and try to claim they are all democrats (good luck proving it).  I can prove to rallys intentionally organized by the Republican party.

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1 hour ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

We saw more than that for one long minute or so...and much much less for way too long as well. In Duluth I learned the maxim that the race is such a pain in the ass that they can only run it every other year because it takes that long for people to forget how much it sucks. I really liked Duluth though, and the people are awesome. I’m already planning to do it next year. 
 

Compatible, unflappable crew is a key element which we lacked, but which was not fatal to the cause, thankfully. 
 

wasn’t high, I just really love sailing on the lakes. Superior is beautiful and I can wear more layers....  There’s also the overlap of the course with the first good sail I did with o’le Pappy Sol, delivering his ChiMac ride to Duluth, many decades ago. Those are literally some of my first memories. Going back was pretty cool.

Yeah - crew is key.  We had four people on board.  While the wind was way up, it wasn't shifty or particular gusty.  As a result, my watchmate slept on deck on the high side and I was just able to steer.

Another time they had put the finish right up against the beach.  We were coming downhill at 14 knots (C&C 35) or so with 1.5 oz spinnaker and blooper up.  We dumped the blooper with 1.5 miles to go, the spinnaker with 1 mile to go, and were still surfing at 8 or 9 knots under just the main.  That was a bit scary.  Crash gybe as soon as we crossed the line to avoid grounding.

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7 hours ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

We saw more than that for one long minute or so...and much much less for way too long as well. In Duluth I learned the maxim that the race is such a pain in the ass that they can only run it every other year because it takes that long for people to forget how much it sucks. I really liked Duluth though, and the people are awesome. I’m already planning to do it next year. 
 

Compatible, unflappable crew is a key element which we lacked, but which was not fatal to the cause, thankfully. 
 

wasn’t high, I just really love sailing on the lakes. Superior is beautiful and I can wear more layers....  There’s also the overlap of the course with the first good sail I did with o’le Pappy Sol, delivering his ChiMac ride to Duluth, many decades ago. Those are literally some of my first memories. Going back was pretty cool.

That is cool. We used to road-trip to the strip clubs in Superior from Minneapolis Back when Wisconsin had an 18 year drinking age. Was always an adventure.

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Things looking very good in Michigan.  See daily deaths dropping to less than one per day.  Hopefully stays this way.

Daily new cases dropping down.  But positive case rate not correlating with daily new cases.  Seems odd to me.  But some posters here are saying the books are cooked so maybe Whittier thinks no one will notice.

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Still doing fine, right rok dog?  Going to go the Trump route and claim this is just due to more tests?  Hint:  the increase in tests is linear.  The increase in cases over the last 1.5 months appears to be an upward curve (exponential).  The number of tests increasing does not account for the increasing rate of infections.

image.png.c27275fe89800fa963819b3043fcbf61.png

We know Florida has been screwing with the corona virus numbers by refusing to include 'non residents' in their stats.  Even if they contract, get sick, and die in Florida.

Do you have some sort of cite that Michigan is screwing with the numbers?  I have not seen any credible claims or proof of that.

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18 minutes ago, Grrr... said:

Still doing fine, right rok dog?

 

We know Florida has been screwing with the corona virus numbers by refusing to include 'non residents' in their stats.  Even if they contract, get sick, and die in Florida.

Do you have some sort of cite that Michigan is screwing with the numbers?  I have not seen any credible claims or proof of that.

What scares me about that uptick, is that Whitmer doesn't have many more knobs to turn with regard to shutting down.  Individuals have to be more responsible to stop the spread.  Good luck with that.

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5 minutes ago, Cal20sailor said:

What scares me about that uptick, is that Whitmer doesn't have many more knobs to turn with regard to shutting down.  Individuals have to be more responsible to stop the spread.  Good luck with that.

She does.  She can have the state police begin to actually ticket people for no masks.  She can change the order to masks all the time outside the home.  She can shut down restaurants.  That's the BIG one that no one wants to see.

People are still blatently disobeying the mask requirement.  I had to drop some stuff off at UPS and was very disappointed at the lack of masks in a high traffic area like that.

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My cousin, a retired hospice nurse, is a Michigan denier. She post things that start out with “ I know someone who knows 2 health worker and they say.....” or “ I have contacted all of the hospitals in Michigan and.......”. I send her a link to actual data and her response is “ interesting, there is conflicting information out there”.

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8 minutes ago, Gangbusters said:

My cousin, a retired hospice nurse, is a Michigan denier. She post things that start out with “ I know someone who knows 2 health worker and they say.....” or “ I have contacted all of the hospitals in Michigan and.......”. I send her a link to actual data and her response is “ interesting, there is conflicting information out there”.

I think -retired- says it all.  Ask her to volunteer in some of the hot corona virus areas.  Like West Michigan.  Bet she'd change her tune very quickly, or just say 'no' and try to hand wave it away.

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17 minutes ago, Grrr... said:

She does.  She can have the state police begin to actually ticket people for no masks.  She can change the order to masks all the time outside the home.  She can shut down restaurants.  That's the BIG one that no one wants to see.

People are still blatently disobeying the mask requirement.  I had to drop some stuff off at UPS and was very disappointed at the lack of masks in a high traffic area like that.

I'm in Dearborn which leans left and I've seen pretty good compliance with masks.  You're Macomb county...bunch of rednecks?

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13 minutes ago, Gangbusters said:

My cousin, a retired hospice nurse, is a Michigan denier. She post things that start out with “ I know someone who knows 2 health worker and they say.....” or “ I have contacted all of the hospitals in Michigan and.......”. I send her a link to actual data and her response is “ interesting, there is conflicting information out there”.

Where in Michigan does she live...sadly, that does make a difference.  

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7 minutes ago, Cal20sailor said:

I'm in Dearborn which leans left and I've seen pretty good compliance with masks.  You're Macomb county...bunch of rednecks?

Hey!  Be nice! :lol:

Unfortunately, power-boaters seem to be an almost universal Trump supporting group.  At least, the portion that boat on Lake St. Stupid are.  Each time we go out we've seen quite literally dozens of Trump supporters flying their flags.

We had 2 run-ins with them last time we were out.  One decided to cut directly across the entrance to the Clinton River, right through the bouys at a 90 degree angle to the channel, at 40 to 50 mph.  Threw up a nice wake and made some folks very very nervous.  The other we literally almost ran into as he slammed his boat into reverse right in front of the Crew's Inn restaurant in the river.  Packed river, and he decides to stop on a dime.  It's like hitting your brakes in the middle of a f'n freeway.  Your power boat may stop - but my sailboat can't do that shit.  Idiot.

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1 minute ago, Grrr... said:

Hey!  Be nice! :lol:

Unfortunately, power-boaters seem to be an almost universal Trump supporting group.  At least, the portion that boat on Lake St. Stupid are.  Each time we go out we've seen quite literally dozens of Trump supporters flying their flags.

We had 2 run-ins with them last time we were out.  One decided to cut directly across the entrance to the Clinton River, right through the bouys at a 90 degree angle to the channel, at 40 to 50 mph.  Threw up a nice wake and made some folks very very nervous.  The other we literally almost ran into as he slammed his boat into reverse right in front of the Crew's Inn restaurant in the river.  Packed river, and he decides to stop on a dime.  It's like hitting your breaks in the middle of a f'n freeway.  Your power boat may stop - but my sailboat can't do that shit.  Idiot.

My favorite is to go to a busy launch ramp and observe from say 7 to dark..  These shirtless idiots with their Mr T starter kit jewelry are all sunburned and drunk and trying to get their boat on the trailer and Lord forbid, drive.  Some of it is priceless.  

I used to come up for the spring/fall series to North Star and know the area reasonably well.  

Stay safe.  

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52 minutes ago, astro said:
9 hours ago, Rok Dog said:

See daily deaths dropping to less than one per day.  Hopefully stays this way.

Fucking amazing init?

All you have to do is change the numbers pretend it isn't happening.

Keep thinking Happy Thoughtstm, anything else is Fake News

- DSK

 

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On 7/11/2020 at 2:28 AM, Rok Dog said:

Still pretty small.  As things open up the number of cases will go up -and then down.  

As people die there will be less disease to go around.  You are brilliant.  Look straight at the sun, it will enlighten you.

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On 7/11/2020 at 11:30 AM, Ishmael said:

Some people in the States are agitating for open borders with Canada. Fuck that for a joke. We need to get started on a giant lexan screen along the border.

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Build the wall!!!

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On 7/13/2020 at 9:45 AM, Steam Flyer said:

It's pretty clear that the Trump cult is another Jonestown. Have you already drunk the Kool-Aid?

At some point, you will leave the cult. Do you have the mental strength to do so while still alive? Trump has been wrong about everything, fucked up everything, failed at everything. You say "Cases are going down! Deaths are going down!" then they are clearly not. Meanwhile, the countries that actually followed science are doing great economically, with businesses booming and literally less than 1/100th of the deaths that are occurring in the USA.

If you're determined to ride this flaming zeppelin all the way to the ground, enjoy yelling insults. It's the only reward you're going to get.

Smart people learn from their mistakes... actually, real smart people learn from the mistakes of others.

- DSK

Name one politician that has been right about everything.  It is easy to throw stones.  Are you forgetting Pelosi's party in Chinatown?  What about the apparent BLM protester's immunity?  I'm sure the resounding success of New York measured by deaths puts them in a position to tell everyone else what to do, even if it is after the fact.  We have been told that masks are good and we have been told that masks are bad, by the same experts, as in multiple experts from multiple organizations.  I'm sorry but washing hands and wearing masks alone are not the answer.  Sure they both help.  But if you walk around you will see people wearing masks like hiphop fans wear pants.  But by george they are wearing the mask.  Further, the quality of masks and the protection offered varies greatly.  I am not saying that they do no good, they do.  The question is how much good, and are they trustworthy.  How is it that a meeting at work is a terrible danger, yet it is perfectly fine to protest or go to Walmart.  There are so many double standards  from so many sources that blaming any single person is ridiculous.  I have personally watched a startup company with promise now teetering on failure.  I watched a manufacturing plant lay off 400 people due to this thing.    We have seen the CDC, the WHO and others purposely falsify reports, get caught then issue more reports. And people choose to believe them. The latest is in Florida, where the state is reporting exaggerated numbers of positive tests.  They got caught; how many have not been caught? Those agencies may have scientists working for them, but the bureaucrats are controlling the information leaving those agencies.  And somehow the president is responsible because he does not wear a mask in a protected environment?  I'm not a huge fan of Trump, but you people are watching way too much CNN, FOX, MSNBC and you quit thinking for yourselves years ago.      

This boils down to culture, the economy and nature.  The virus will spread.  That is its nature.  The big question is how much are we willing to risk in order to keep from failing financially.  The bigger question, one that we have no answer too, is exactly what is the risk? 

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4 minutes ago, plchacker said:

Name one politician that has been right about everything.  It is easy to throw stones.  Are you forgetting Pelosi's party in Chinatown?  What about the apparent BLM protester's immunity?  I'm sure the resounding success of New York measured by deaths puts them in a position to tell everyone else what to do, even if it is after the fact.  We have been told that masks are good and we have been told that masks are bad, by the same experts, as in multiple experts from multiple organizations.  I'm sorry but washing hands and wearing masks alone are not the answer.  Sure they both help.  But if you walk around you will see people wearing masks like hiphop fans wear pants.  But by george they are wearing the mask.  Further, the quality of masks and the protection offered varies greatly.  I am not saying that they do no good, they do.  The question is how much good, and are they trustworthy.  How is it that a meeting at work is a terrible danger, yet it is perfectly fine to protest or go to Walmart.  There are so many double standards  from so many sources that blaming any single person is ridiculous.  I have personally watched a startup company with promise now teetering on failure.  I watched a manufacturing plant lay off 400 people due to this thing.    We have seen the CDC, the WHO and others purposely falsify reports, get caught then issue more reports. And people choose to believe them. The latest is in Florida, where the state is reporting exaggerated numbers of positive tests.  They got caught; how many have not been caught? Those agencies may have scientists working for them, but the bureaucrats are controlling the information leaving those agencies.  And somehow the president is responsible because he does not wear a mask in a protected environment?  I'm not a huge fan of Trump, but you people are watching way too much CNN, FOX, MSNBC and you quit thinking for yourselves years ago.      

This boils down to culture, the economy and nature.  The virus will spread.  That is its nature.  The big question is how much are we willing to risk in order to keep from failing financially.  The bigger question, one that we have no answer too, is exactly what is the risk? 

Standard denier bullshit. Look at Canada, very little infection, economy opening up. Western Europe, same. Travel even starting again, unless you’re an American. Jesus, even Mexico has closed the border to Americans.

us, Russia India and Brazil. Fucked. They have something in common.

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1 minute ago, plchacker said:

Name one politician that has been right about everything.  It is easy to throw stones.  Are you forgetting Pelosi's party in Chinatown?  What about the apparent BLM protester's immunity?  I'm sure the resounding success of New York measured by deaths puts them in a position to tell everyone else what to do, even if it is after the fact.  We have been told that masks are good and we have been told that masks are bad, by the same experts, as in multiple experts from multiple organizations.  I'm sorry but washing hands and wearing masks alone are not the answer.  Sure they both help.  But if you walk around you will see people wearing masks like hiphop fans wear pants.  But by george they are wearing the mask.  Further, the quality of masks and the protection offered varies greatly.  I am not saying that they do no good, they do.  The question is how much good, and are they trustworthy.  How is it that a meeting at work is a terrible danger, yet it is perfectly fine to protest or go to Walmart.  There are so many double standards  from so many sources that blaming any single person is ridiculous.  I have personally watched a startup company with promise now teetering on failure.  I watched a manufacturing plant lay off 400 people due to this thing.    We have seen the CDC, the WHO and others purposely falsify reports, get caught then issue more reports. And people choose to believe them. The latest is in Florida, where the state is reporting exaggerated numbers of positive tests.  They got caught; how many have not been caught? Those agencies may have scientists working for them, but the bureaucrats are controlling the information leaving those agencies.  And somehow the president is responsible because he does not wear a mask in a protected environment?  I'm not a huge fan of Trump, but you people are watching way too much CNN, FOX, MSNBC and you quit thinking for yourselves years ago.      

This boils down to culture, the economy and nature.  The virus will spread.  That is its nature.  The big question is how much are we willing to risk in order to keep from failing financially.  The bigger question, one that we have no answer too, is exactly what is the risk? 

I suggest you learn from the countries who have curtailed the spread of this virus, and are enjoying (comparative) economic booms as a result.

Just imagine, -IF- there were a reliable, rational policy of test/trace, you could pretty much go on with normal life.

Kind of like faithful monogamous couples don't need to worry about STDs.

commonsense.jpg

Very ironic that you, a borderline Trumpalo, want to accuse others of "not thinking..."

- DSK

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1 minute ago, Raz'r said:

Standard denier bullshit. Look at Canada, very little infection, economy opening up. Western Europe, same. Travel even starting again, unless you’re an American.

us, Russia India and Brazil. Fucked. They have something in common.

Western Europe is ahead of us on the curve.  Brazil is behind us.  India is overpopulated.  None of the above are reporting as many false positives as we are.  Hell, The CDC so far will not release the number of flue deaths this year.  Wonder why? 

The simple truth is New York, has more deaths alone than most if not all European countries.  Outside of New York, New Jersey,  and the surrounding area, the US is not at all in bad shape. 

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21 minutes ago, plchacker said:

Name one politician that has been right about everything.  It is easy to throw stones.  Are you forgetting Pelosi's party in Chinatown?  What about the apparent BLM protester's immunity?  I'm sure the resounding success of New York measured by deaths puts them in a position to tell everyone else what to do, even if it is after the fact.  We have been told that masks are good and we have been told that masks are bad, by the same experts, as in multiple experts from multiple organizations.  I'm sorry but washing hands and wearing masks alone are not the answer.  Sure they both help.  But if you walk around you will see people wearing masks like hiphop fans wear pants.  But by george they are wearing the mask.  Further, the quality of masks and the protection offered varies greatly.  I am not saying that they do no good, they do.  The question is how much good, and are they trustworthy.  How is it that a meeting at work is a terrible danger, yet it is perfectly fine to protest or go to Walmart.  There are so many double standards  from so many sources that blaming any single person is ridiculous.  I have personally watched a startup company with promise now teetering on failure.  I watched a manufacturing plant lay off 400 people due to this thing.    We have seen the CDC, the WHO and others purposely falsify reports, get caught then issue more reports. And people choose to believe them. The latest is in Florida, where the state is reporting exaggerated numbers of positive tests.  They got caught; how many have not been caught? Those agencies may have scientists working for them, but the bureaucrats are controlling the information leaving those agencies.  And somehow the president is responsible because he does not wear a mask in a protected environment?  I'm not a huge fan of Trump, but you people are watching way too much CNN, FOX, MSNBC and you quit thinking for yourselves years ago.      

This boils down to culture, the economy and nature.  The virus will spread.  That is its nature.  The big question is how much are we willing to risk in order to keep from failing financially.  The bigger question, one that we have no answer too, is exactly what is the risk? 

Sorry, but it appears you've swallowed the bullshit hook, line, and sinker.

Science acknowledges, up front, that they don't know everything.  They give you their best guidance, with their best theory, supported by their best evidence, at that particular time.  As evidence changes and theories are improved or changed, scientists are up front about telling you that.  This is the very nature of science.  Medical science is even harder than most, and even more changing.  What may have been true 30 years ago may not necessarily be true now.

Trump guesses.  Flat out guesses.  And makes statements that he would like you to believe are facts.  He doesn't retract.  He doesn't backtrack.  As a result, you rarely if ever hear the actual truth out of his mouth.

He's convinced you that the practice of science is the practice of fake news.  I.e. - he's convinced you that you can't trust anyone.  Especially not the misleading scientists who just can't make up their damn minds.  To that end, he's officially gagged those same scientists, the same way he has gagged almost every member of government.  This has been reported on extensively.  Government scientists are not allowed to view their ideas.  Speak out of turn, get fired.  Period.  Oppose his viewpoint, get fired.

This is his method of becoming a nationalistic demagogue.  Of discreditting every other point of view.  You are supporting it by not understanding science.

You conflate "going to protest at Walmart" to a "meeting at work".  They aren't the same for any number of reasons.  I'm not going to explain them.

Please cite falsified CDC reports.  I have seen no reports of such.  Please cite falsified WHO reports.

You seem very, very confused.  But this isn't a confusing matter.  Wear masks.  Socially distance.  Don't go places that you absolutely don't have to be.  Wash your hands.  Wash your phone.  Clean your wallet and anything you take out of it.  Take basic precautions.  This is not rocket surgery.  Really.

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1 minute ago, Steam Flyer said:

I suggest you learn from the countries who have curtailed the spread of this virus, and are enjoying (comparative) economic booms as a result.

Just imagine, -IF- there were a reliable, rational policy of test/trace, you could pretty much go on with normal life.

Kind of like faithful monogamous couples don't need to worry about STDs.

commonsense.jpg

Very ironic that you, a borderline Trumpalo, want to accuse others of "not thinking..."

- DSK

I suggest we learn to actually count.  With the US slipping in ranking in math of the past several decades it is not surprising that we cannot accurately count the number of actual cases. 

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4 minutes ago, plchacker said:

I suggest we learn to actually count.  With the US slipping in ranking in math of the past several decades it is not surprising that we cannot accurately count the number of actual cases. 

Cases don't matter.  Only deaths do.  

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3 minutes ago, plchacker said:

I suggest we learn to actually count.  With the US slipping in ranking in math of the past several decades it is not surprising that we cannot accurately count the number of actual cases. 

See - this is more straight right wing bullshit.

If someone dies due to pneumonia, was it caused by Covid?  Do we classify it as a covid death?  Counting Covid deaths is fucking HARD.  Because what IS a Covid death?  Is there any surprise that with millions of doctors and thousands of hospitals that there are differing methods?  Really?  Does that surprise you?  Trump is in the process of forcing all the data to go through the white house specifically so he can start..... massaging the results.  What many consider a death caused by complications due to covid, they may likely classify as a non-covid death.  Just in time for the numbers to look better for the election.  Congratulations - you've been lied to.

Or how about we play politics like Florida.  If you aren't a resident, we don't count it.  Regardless of whether you caught it there and died there or not.  That's being driven by a Republican governor following Trump's lead.

Actually learn to count?  What a lord of horseshit.

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1 minute ago, plchacker said:

I suggest we learn to actually count.  With the US slipping in ranking in math of the past several decades it is not surprising that we cannot accurately count the number of actual cases. 

Ah so, you're falling back on the "those idiots don't know what they're doing" excuse?

Ever worked with a good calibration tech? Did he (or she) fuck things up continuously while insisting that other people didn't do their math right?

Of course, thinking back on it, you and I might have different definitions of a "good" calibration tech. I liked ones who made shit work efficiently & correctly.

- DSK

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4 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Cases don't matter.  Only deaths do.  

But - was the death due to a heart attack?  Or due to the Covid that caused the complications that, because of other underlying reasons like obesity exacerbated themselves into a heart attack?

You know as well as I do that this isn't a 'hard' science.  Though it is, in fact, god damn hard.

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2 minutes ago, Grrr... said:

Sorry, but it appears you've swallowed the bullshit hook, line, and sinker.

Science acknowledges, up front, that they don't know everything.  They give you their best guidance, with their best theory, supported by their best evidence, at that particular time.  As evidence changes and theories are improved or changed, scientists are up front about telling you that.  This is the very nature of science.  Medical science is even harder than most, and even more changing.  What may have been true 30 years ago may not necessarily be true now.

Trump guesses.  Flat out guesses.  And makes statements that he would like you to believe are facts.  He doesn't retract.  He doesn't backtrack.  As a result, you rarely if ever hear the actual truth out of his mouth.

He's convinced you that the practice of science is the practice of fake news.  I.e. - he's convinced you that you can't trust anyone.  Especially not the misleading scientists who just can't make up their damn minds.  To that end, he's officially gagged those same scientists, the same way he has gagged almost every member of government.  This has been reported on extensively.  Government scientists are not allowed to view their ideas.  Speak out of turn, get fired.  Period.  Oppose his viewpoint, get fired.

This is his method of becoming a nationalistic demagogue.  Of discreditting every other point of view.  You are supporting it by not understanding science.

You conflate "going to protest at Walmart" to a "meeting at work".  They aren't the same for any number of reasons.  I'm not going to explain them.

Please cite falsified CDC reports.  I have seen no reports of such.  Please cite falsified WHO reports.

You seem very, very confused.  But this isn't a confusing matter.  Wear masks.  Socially distance.  Don't go places that you absolutely don't have to be.  Wash your hands.  Wash your phone.  Clean your wallet and anything you take out of it.

I don't have time to dig up cites for you.  Both have admitted to providing false information.  Trump has not convinced me of anything.  He is a blow hard New Yorker who exaggerates everything from the size of his hands to the size of crowds and much more. But Birx is no better.  She specifically said that she has instructed  

I spoke at length with a doctor about keeping up with current information about a year ago. It was one of the best conversations I have had with any medical professional.  He was a doc in a box and I was there for a sinus infection.  His specialty was pediatrics.  Long story short, he spends at least five hours a day trying to stay current.  I get it.  It is difficult.  The doctors and technicians in the labs are not the people releasing the numbers, or even deciding what numbers to count.  

I have to get back to work now..

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19 minutes ago, plchacker said:

Western Europe is ahead of us on the curve.  Brazil is behind us.  India is overpopulated.  None of the above are reporting as many false positives as we are.  Hell, The CDC so far will not release the number of flue deaths this year.  Wonder why? 

The simple truth is New York, has more deaths alone than most if not all European countries.  Outside of New York, New Jersey,  and the surrounding area, the US is not at all in bad shape. 

Did I just step into a time machine? New York, Jersey are relatively fine. The south? Not so much. Keep drinking the Kool Aid. The cult is gonna break up in Nov and y’all are gonna get hit with a dose of fact.

i hope none of your friends or family have to die because of gop denial.

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1 hour ago, plchacker said:

Name one politician that has been right about everything.  It is easy to throw stones.  Are you forgetting Pelosi's party in Chinatown?  What about the apparent BLM protester's immunity?  I'm sure the resounding success of New York measured by deaths puts them in a position to tell everyone else what to do, even if it is after the fact.  We have been told that masks are good and we have been told that masks are bad, by the same experts, as in multiple experts from multiple organizations.  I'm sorry but washing hands and wearing masks alone are not the answer.  Sure they both help.  But if you walk around you will see people wearing masks like hiphop fans wear pants.  But by george they are wearing the mask.  Further, the quality of masks and the protection offered varies greatly.  I am not saying that they do no good, they do.  The question is how much good, and are they trustworthy.  How is it that a meeting at work is a terrible danger, yet it is perfectly fine to protest or go to Walmart.  There are so many double standards  from so many sources that blaming any single person is ridiculous.  I have personally watched a startup company with promise now teetering on failure.  I watched a manufacturing plant lay off 400 people due to this thing.    We have seen the CDC, the WHO and others purposely falsify reports, get caught then issue more reports. And people choose to believe them. The latest is in Florida, where the state is reporting exaggerated numbers of positive tests.  They got caught; how many have not been caught? Those agencies may have scientists working for them, but the bureaucrats are controlling the information leaving those agencies.  And somehow the president is responsible because he does not wear a mask in a protected environment?  I'm not a huge fan of Trump, but you people are watching way too much CNN, FOX, MSNBC and you quit thinking for yourselves years ago.      

This boils down to culture, the economy and nature.  The virus will spread.  That is its nature.  The big question is how much are we willing to risk in order to keep from failing financially.  The bigger question, one that we have no answer too, is exactly what is the risk? 

 

1 hour ago, plchacker said:

Western Europe is ahead of us on the curve.  Brazil is behind us.  India is overpopulated.  None of the above are reporting as many false positives as we are.  Hell, The CDC so far will not release the number of flue deaths this year.  Wonder why? 

The simple truth is New York, has more deaths alone than most if not all European countries.  Outside of New York, New Jersey,  and the surrounding area, the US is not at all in bad shape. 

holy.  shit.

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1 hour ago, plchacker said:

I don't have time to dig up cites for you.  Both have admitted to providing false information.  Trump has not convinced me of anything.  He is a blow hard New Yorker who exaggerates everything from the size of his hands to the size of crowds and much more. But Birx is no better.  She specifically said that she has instructed  

I spoke at length with a doctor about keeping up with current information about a year ago. It was one of the best conversations I have had with any medical professional.  He was a doc in a box and I was there for a sinus infection.  His specialty was pediatrics.  Long story short, he spends at least five hours a day trying to stay current.  I get it.  It is difficult.  The doctors and technicians in the labs are not the people releasing the numbers, or even deciding what numbers to count.  

I have to get back to work now..

 

Bolded part is blatantly false. You should stop trusting whoever told you this.

- DSK

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40 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

Hey good news. Salk has a cure for polio! 

But the earth is flat.  Columbus sailed over the edge.  No idea where he is.

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